if you are a Sinkaporean, just be prepared to sink and die. Work for FTs! NS for Sinkies!

Such is the harsh reality of life in Singapore today. We have a government playing the role of the genteel host, welcoming each and every country’s workers in as long as they have something to contribute, but forever downplaying the role of the citizens, forever judging them unworthy and less productive. The only role for the citizens is, in their eyes, is to fall in line and obey every command.

and they still wonder why the birth rate is falling and so many want to migrate….

hahaha… Looks like Singaporeans are the foreigners.

SH

I’ve said this before and will say over and over again, VOTE the present government out of office at the next election and support the opposition. No point bringing up issues, we are very familiar with all these issues, it will fall on deaf ears in the end.But now we have an added advantage, a pretty good and sensible opposition but they need to connect and make themselves heard and seen more in the coming future. People are really tired of this government.

[...] What we also want to know are answers to some questions posed by Leong Sze Hian in this article. [...]

Only in SG, where the majority is treated like the minority.

34% foreigners…pure demographic insanity…

Reading this story reminds me of two incidents in Changi Airport:

I went to the men’s room to attend to my nature call. There was a janitor cleaning the toilet. I went to an empty stall and found out that the toilet roll was empty. Putting down my carry-on bag, I approached the janitor for a new toilet roll. The janitor rudely asked me to use another stall where there is toilet paper available. Along came a Caucasian washing his hands and, NOT to my surprise, the janitor hurriedly pulled some paper towels from his stash and handed them to him with a smile. I am Singaporean, by the way, and obviously don’t have the green eyes and blond hair for the janitor to subjugate to.

Incident #2- I was at the airport sending my wife off to US. The check-in counters were taped off and I was only allowed to watch her as she got in line to check in. This was couple months after the Sept 11 incident in 2001. And cops were all over the place. I was standing closest to my wife outside the tape when a cop shouted at me to stand further away from the line. I sharply rebutted that I was seeing my wife checking-in for the US-bound flight, using my best American accent. The cop immediately lowered his tone and apologized and re-iterated his concern that I was standing too close to the tape, re-emphasizing that he was trying to maintain security of the passengers. This time, my accent fooled a local that readily subjugate to a foreigner.

I leave it to you to draw your own conclusion of Singaporeans’ views and deference to foreigners, especially Westerners/Caucasians. I do not believe Singaporeans are less able to compete and hold our own with Westerners but just the two of many experiences made me think otherwise.

When more and more FTs and FWs become citizens, obviously they will become beholden to the master. Come to think of it, perhaps this maybe one of the reason why more and more FTs and FWs are allowed to work here many even holding junior management posts which I think there are plenty of qualified Sporeans that can do the jobs. Agree that there are some jobs, like for example contruction workers, cleaners and perhaps health care jobs like nurses where few Sporeans will like to take up. But certainly not junior management posts. I noticed that some duty managers in my neighbourhood supermarket are FTs. Are there no Sporeans that can do the job?. Something is not right here.

Vote the bloody clowns out since they are the main source of problems in Singapore and they are taking thing too extreme. Period. If you just think too much of pro and con, you will never amount to anything. At the end of the day, you have to make a decision with whom to support ultimately. Engaging in analysis paralysis only create confusion. Human should run government not expensive clowns.

I really think the next GE is the LAST CHANCE for Singaporeans to reinvent themselves and get rid of the dead wood at the top. If not at the current rate of immigration, the number of votes of the new citizens will outnumber the old citizens.

After the next GE, if PAP is still the incumbent with a smaller majority, it will still be able to push forward with its immigration scheme and retain all the same incompetent ministers and associates. If PAP retains the status quo or makes it 84 out of 84 even, Good Game Singapore.

>7) FTs on August 26th, 2009 2.02 am Only in SG, where the majority is treated >like the minority.

>34% foreigners…pure demographic insanity…

I agree with you FTs. So can you imagine what the Singaporeans from the minority groups face! No wonder they are upset over MM’s remarks!

The next thing would be to put into the constitution: It is the duty of the government to protect and safeguard the Rights of Singapore Citizens…..etc…..etc!

Maybe then Singapore citizens would be happy………….maybe!

An interest article based on FACTs.
Kudos!

Unfortunately, majority singaporeans too busy to read or even will ever be aware of this article. To the typical singaporean , they only read Mainstream media.

Lets put it this way. Soon, there will be 3 million foreigners / new immigrants / PRs.

I hope singaporeans at least still aware that it is proven in History that Civilizations come and go or get replaced. The future singapore will be very different and 50% influenced by new immigrants who think differently.

Come to think of it, that is actually something to celebrate about even at the dilution of original singapore culture / mentality. Singaporeans have proven unable to change the status.

hasta las vista Vista.

Dun be naïve, there will never be a level playing field. You can either work harder to secure your job or leave the country for somewhere better. The other way is to make your stand during the next GE.

I’m sure many Singaporeans do not know this.

While the CPF cost component to the employer may appear to influence hiring decisions, i like to confirm that:

1. CPF contribution is CAPPED at a salary that is not HIGH about $4500.
2. By virtue of this, for HIGH INCOME Earners, the effect on hiring HIGH INCOME EARNERS is neglible the higher the salary.
So, the biggest impact is on those earning around $6500 (my estimate) and below.

And these would be how much of the citizen population?

As you can see, I only have questions. I have no answers to offer.

Mr Leong,

PRs enjoy the same priority as S’poreans for Primary 1 Registration. Why should that be the case??

MOE kept claiming that all primary schools are equally well equiped and there are enough primary 1 places for all S’poreans. If that was really true, why doesn’t the govt give absolute priority for primary 1 registration to S’poreans???

Our ruling elite obviously don’t care because they can get any primary school of their choice. They don’t have to fight tooth and nail like Lesser Mortals have to against PRs and foreigners.

“”15) What Change? on August 26th, 2009 10.39 am
I’m sure many Singaporeans do not know this.”"

Why worry?

There are enough new immigrants already to create a new culture right?
Out with the old and come in the new?

Or maybe just wait a few more years to see what i mean?

Many have left. As Viswa said, 20% of the good grade students of a school are no long in singapore. So, who are the ones left behind?

Also, many many singaporeans have given up their passports.

Many are not giving birth.

Factor all in , the picture is clear.

#3 #5
Not now ! U wake up! In 1984 election U should have vote them out. Preventing the famiLEE to copy & paste their next generation. They have already change Bloooooooood on the population. It up to U ready to scarifice for your next generation. Get ready to be a third class citizen! “God Bless U”

Mr Leong is more than qualified to be an opposition MP . We hope he can contest in the next GE and contribute to the society and correct the wrong of pap.

#5) Agree with you, but PAP gov have the GRC system so that those opposition candidates who had VOLUNTEERED their service to the citizens will not be easily elected since PAP have many candidates who are PERSUADED to join politics.

This unfair political playing field need to be leveled and scrapped first.

When the term FT was coined, it meant CEOs kind, now it can mean anything from a CEO to a prostitute. S’pore has to be the only country in the world where true blue citizens are ranked 2nd class compared to immigrants. This anomaly, I believe comes abt when the vote of citizens is not important/irrelevant to the ruling party. Perhaps it is time to exercise our rights/voice, instead of being dumbed down. I am sick of feeling like a foreigner in my own country.

Much as I would like to agree with the article, I can’t help but to point out some cherry-picking here.

When citizens are eligible for employer CPF, it is cited that foreigners have a better deal in that they cost less as the employer does not need to pay his portion of the CPF contributions.

When employers are required to insure foreigners, it results in a higher cost to employers but the article chooses to say that foreigners have a better deal with insurance.

I would have expected a more balanced point of view.

#23) colortv on August 26th, 2009 11.32 am

Between the cost of paying CPF to locals and getting insurance for a foreign worker, I will choose the latter anytime.

“ siblings (below age 35) qualify to buy resale HDB flats. However, Singaporean PR siblings (below age 35) do not. Why is it that in this aspect, even PRs may have “more privileges” than Singaporeans?LSH.

This sentence does not sound right. Do you mean PR siblings in comparison to Singaporean (Citizen) siblings and not Singaporean PR siblings?

Hi ColorTV,

I think you’ve missed the point of the article. It is not about whether the foreigner or Singaporean has the better deal. It is about the Singaporean being disadvantaged when an employer considers who to employ.

Your parents treat you the best. Are they the smartest person on earth?

So, is the government. We need a government who cares about its people. This will be truly beneficial to us. People with a heart. It does not matter if they are the smartest. Above average intelligence is sufficient.

Who needs all the money-minded Evil Einsteins running the country? Just vote for anyone in the opposition. Seriously. In these times, whoever runs as an opposition will be someone who wants a change and who is not afraid of showing it to PAP. Anyone can do the job as long as he cares.

“Without prejudice”

My query would be why would be 2 Singapore siblings wish to purchase as resale only when they are eligble for garnts when purchasing new or resale with grants. So to deem it less “privileges” for Singaporeans would be opined as why do they need to.

See below infor. You will have to meet the following conditions to buy a new flat from HDB :

Citizenship
You must be a Singapore Citizen. Your family nucleus must comprise at least another Singapore Citizen or Singapore Permanent Resident.

Age

You must be at least 21 years old at the time of application.

Family Nucleus
You must form a proper family nucleus under one of the following schemes:
SCHEME FAMILY NUCLEUS
Public You, the applicant and;
- your spouse, and children (if any)
- your parents, and siblings (if any)
- your children under your legal custody
(for widowed/ divorced)
Fiance/Fiancee
Additional Information
You, the applicant and your fiancé/fiancée
Orphan
Additional Information You, the applicant and your unmarried siblings

#22 You are spot on!

Where are the highly qualified FTs? Current FTs are nothing but a bunch of opportunists, once they have make enough. They will pack their bags and go home to live a comfortable life.

Thanks and courtesy from non-other than our uncaring elite group of good-for-nothing, money-grubbing, non-sympathetic, asking our aged to move to JB for healthcare and all uncaring policy-makers.

Sigh………..I know where my vote is headed next election.

Govt is always saying that Singaporeans enjoy more benefits than PRs do. Following is a table I’ve done up for comparison purpose. You decide how much more benefits we are enjoying over PRs’ :

http://0000pcj.people.delphiforums.com/downloads/Benefits_of_Singaporean_vs_PR1.htm

3000 new citizens = 3000 votes for PAP

Why do you think this place need to fill up tp 6 million people?

This is a very insightful article. Thank you!

Employers are always cost-conscious and would as far as possible employ foreign workers who are less demanding. Inevitably, it deprives locals especially those who are less educated and less skilled of opportunities to get jobs.

As a result, many housewives and retirees who want to look for jobs to earn some income to supplement their household expenses are finding it more and more difficult to get employed. These low-income people are definitely getting poorer and poorer.

To overlook ths ever widening income gap in our country will eventually lead to social upheaval. This is very worrisome and deserves immediate remedial action!

On the other hand… because we Singaporeans can just leave the job, we are less prone to workplace abuses.

Foreigners can’t, especially those with work permits, which means they have to take in whatever s**t their employers give them and they have no ability to defend themselves. They are here for a simple reason, the same reason why our ancestors first came to this island in the first place – to earn a living and support their family.

Whereas we Singaporeans can just walk away once we cannot stand it anymore. They can’t, especially if they are not those who are earning alot, meaning they are just like any other less fortunate Singaporeans – trying to make ends meet with difficulty.

It will be worse if a foreigner lady gets pregnant.

I’ve witnessed all these through my own eyes, and my heart goes out to them.

While I understand the resentment for all these, we could make do with more understanding for the foreign workers too. They have their own stories to tell.

Anyway as an addition, unless you are a Malay, Singaporeans should basically refrain from using names such as ‘opportunists’ on foreigners. Afterall, except for the Malays, we locals are descendants of FOREIGNERS.

Insulting current foreigners is no less than insulting your own ancestors who came here to make a living.

Be fair in criticisms. And name-callings are barely graceful.

32) Jezebella on August 26th, 2009 12.53 pm

Our ancestors could choose to stay here or go back to their home countries like the foreigners here now.

Unfortunately for us, we don’t have this luxury and are stuck with a bunch of incompetent elites making a mess out of things. Plus name-calling is what our elites do best anyway.

My son, 2.5yrs now, has been trying to get into the Govt subsidised Nursery without success over the last 1 yr. Reason given by the Nursery that it is FULL HOUSE. I find it funny as I live in mature estate in Whampoa Area where there should be more elderly than toddlers. Then, surprise to find out that a hugh portion of the nusery students are from foreigner’s or PR’s kids. So, i have no choice but only to enrol my son to a Private Nursery paying almost $1K a month as compare to below $100 for the Govt subsidised nursery.

Why our countries subsidise Foreigner or PR kids. OR is it that the Govt Nursery prefers to accept Foreigner or PR kids because they pay just slightly more than Singapore kids. If that is the case, I am prepared to pay the same price as the PR’s kids which is just twenty dollars more.

Govt, pls wake up. We cant afford to raise Singapore Children if you are really hopeless in yr ministry. Being a PR or Foreigner is deifinitely much better than being a Singaporean.

“Employ a female on the S-Pass or work permit, you don’t have to worry about the four months maternity leave if you employ a Singaporean lady. As I understand it, the conditions of the S-Pass and work permit forbids them from becoming pregnant.”

So are you proposing that our pregnant Singaporean women should not be given 4 mths maternity leave? Or are you proposing that Singaporean women should not be pregnant?

Jezebella,

Yours is the kind of highfalutin argument our dearest LKY has just shown a dislike for.

How in the world could you compare the pains of our ancestors to the new foreign immigrants? Our ancestors came to a barren land and built it up from practically nothing – not even one bit of natural resources – except by their own blood, sweat and tears.

The new immigrants are opportunists. The world over know about the progress Singapore has made. The hardworking trait of our ancestors, their commitment to building a better life for their children, their trustworthiness – all contributed to what Singapore is today – a rich nation.

The new immigrant is not here to help build Singapore. He is here to take advantage of what our ancestors have left behind for us – their children. So what sh*t are you talking about that the foreign worker has to face? What nonsense are you spewing that the Singaporean worker can just walk away from his job of he wishes to?

The sh*t that the foreign worker has to take is nothing compared to the uncertainties of a Singaporean worker who has to ensure that his family is well-fed and provided for, not only for his life span, but also for that of his children.

The foreign alien can well bear with some sh*t for what – 5 years, 10 years – then take his goldmine home with him to a life of blissful retirement. This is what he can look forward to when taking advantage of the disadvantaged natives of a foreign land.

I have no sympathy for them, even if the fault does not lie with them for the opportunity given to them on a platter. They could jolly well buck up and show us that they are the foreign talents they are made out to be – or – get the hell out of here.

33) Time for Change on August 26th, 2009 1.03 pm 32)
Unfortunately for us, we don’t have this luxury and are stuck with a bunch of incompetent elites making a mess out of things. Plus name-calling is what our elites do best anyway.

You people just have to do only 1 simple thing, BOOT THEM OUT of govt next GE. There is no only way, nothing more to consider further.

There is no other way . . . . . typo error, do it or they will boot you people out of singapore cos replacing you with FTs is in their pipeline and already in motion.

I do agree with most points raised in the article. However, a few of the points just did not sound quite right.

One of which would be, “Since those on say work permits are stuck with the same employer for up to three years, the employer may not have a turnover problem – Singaporean employees can resign anytime.”

Isn’t the choice of Singaporeans to leave their respective jobs a matter of freewill? Why should we attribute that as an argument for the uneven playing field in the job market?

Even if the point is that employers feel less secured employing a local due to such issues, is it not something Singaporeans brought upon ourselves? After all, it is the Singaporeans who have shown a depency to job hop.

Singapore’s FT policy is very selective and does not affect those at the top at all. When will Ho Ching step down?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203550604574359720194516500.html

”
…
On Tuesday, legislators from the ruling People’s Action Party and opposition Workers’ Party asked Finance Minister Tharman Shanmugaratnam why Mr. Goodyear resigned. “People do want to know,” Mr. Tharman replied. “There’s curiosity. But that is not sufficient reason to disclose information.” Later, he added: “It will not be advisable, nor in the interest of Temasek or Mr. Goodyear, for us to comment further. It serves no strategic purpose.”
…
Given Temasek lost more than S$40 billion Singapore dollars between March last year and this year under current CEO Ho Ching’s watch, there is an argument for more outside scrutiny from parliament, which represents the Singaporean people. There is an argument, too, that Mr. Goodyear could have brought a fresh perspective. Had he taken over as CEO, he would have been the first non-Singaporean to fill the role. He also had extensive international experience, having run businesses in the U.S. and Australia.
….”

Sg has become a place for the INNER CIRCLE, the pappies, the FT, the angmok and the riches.

The remaining 90% of citizens, have only one purpose, that is to PAY TAXES AND SHUT UP.

Singapore has become a dreamland for the inner circle

35) XiiAoGeNgEnX on August 26th, 2009 1.22 pm

“So are you proposing that our pregnant Singaporean women should not be given 4 mths maternity leave? Or are you proposing that Singaporean women should not be pregnant?”

lets try using some common sense….

the author’s title of this article is “level the playing field….” which means foreigners have some advantages over locals. so when he say singaporean women need to be given 4 months of maternity leave, he means that foreigner women will have an advantage with stingy Singapore employers who will favor them over Singapore women.

job hop or moving up career ladder? depends on who’s persective? is there still lifelong employment where 1 works & stays throughout his/her working life? how many jobs pay enough to start & sustain a family of 5 (eg, 2 working adults now married, with 2 kids, with each sharing the financial burden of feeding 1 parent, excluding maid)?

when there is a glass ceiling, the only way up the career ladder (& remunerations) is out? with the widening income gap between the rich & poor, how do the poor (bottom 20%) ek out a decent living in the face of rising cost of living?

is it a norm to hear of bosses with compassion paying a decent salary or are horror stories of exploitative bosses more common?

*being heard more often may not mean there are statistically more of such cases, but there are psychological effects to them. works both ways, for employers & employees.

Yeah, S’pore’s FT policy means employing a lot of Mainland China people as Tibs bus drivers even if they cannot speak and understand English, let alone help give directions to commuters in need of help.

Can ask anyone who has experienced first hand the frustration when dealing with these FT bus drivers.

On the other hand, a lot of employment opportunities & job adverts tell you need to either be bilingual or can speak Mandarin; like as if in a company there will not be other Mandarin speaking colleagues to help out should you suddenly encounter a client or customer who cannot even understand & speak simple English (in this day & age).

Anyone disagree, S’pore’s FT policy means bringing in Mainland China people for the sleaze industry and lately as bus drivers. Of course, Bangla workers are also welcomed to be squeezed and exploited as manual workers.

So, bring them on…

FWs, FTs are fast tracked to job placements despite their lack of language abilities being bilingual really irks me. because local Malay & Indian do not enjoy such a “privilege”…

most people are numb until it hits them.

i have a friend who was retrenched, applied for hundreds of jobs, with relevant experience and keen to settle for lesser pay. but yet lost to ft who was offered with the same pay when she interviewed with the infamous local semicon fab. in fact they hired a whole batch of ft w no local talents.

when u have a ft manager, locals be prepared to be flushed out. there are many people writing about this observation in forums,blogs etc, it’s not speculation.

lost of jobs only affect the lower income, which the govt claim will help?
ha, what a joke. its those earning above $2.5k jobs that are affected. these are employment passes which have no quota and what locals most desperately need to sustain their expensive hdb and kids.

whether the govt does not know or is unwilling, its not an excuse when u claim to be top talent demanding to be paid millions.
its good enough reason to vote them out to prevent further damage.
i know i will and so will my friend who lost her job to ft.

36) gemami on August 26th, 2009 1.23 pm ,

bravo, germami, there you go man!

the FTs and FWs are the pain in the a** as i lost to them most of it due to price being too slow.

so government, not only we pay taxes here but pay one to one for everything here whereas Foreigners send back their pay and times 3 – 20 times of thier native country currency and live happily.

even the FWs can do the sum let alone those idiots elite sitting in office good for nothing.

I think the Govt knows all these ground unhappiness. You don’t think they haven’t got their trolls monitoring all websites like this ? But do they really care? Their main priority is to grow the economy or rather the GDP at all cost and being unable or unwilling to cut costs of other factors, the only thing they are willing deal with is manpower costs and thats where all these ‘ FTs’ come in. (after all aren’t minitoots bonuses linked to GDP growth?)
However, Having subdued the populatiion to docile submission all these years with their arrogance, they fail to understand human tolerance has a limit.
I say we all deliver them a bloody nose this coming GE only then will they start listening

‘Tis unfortunate that we did not talk about ‘leveling the playing field’ amongst locals prior to the influx of ‘foreigners’ with as much vigour.

That simply indicates this current questioning to be a self-absorbed venture that finds not an issue where the majority aren’t affected.

To the chinese, ask yourselves how the ‘mother-tongue’ policy and discrimination in the media, etc, has accustomed the non-chinese to a non-level playing field prior to the said influx of foreigners. In this, they have been used to being ‘foreign’ in perception if not in nationality. Now the problem exists because it affects the majority. That feeds the perspective, ‘if it doesn’t happen to the chinese, it doesn’t happen at all’. Try a little empathy mates. That does well to destabilise the basis upon which evils eventually affect the interests of all in the future.

ed

Jezebella,
my ancestor came with $2 in the pocket and worked as a coolie, but the so called FT is an opportunist , making use of this land as a stepping stone.

Anyway, who force us employer to employ FT. The Government. Everthing here is expensive, the main cost is the Rental especially in retail sector. Who is the biggest retail landlord, Capital Land ( Gov. own CO.)

So, please understand the situation in S’pore. Even the HDB, JTC and other factory landlord had increase their rent. As for any empolyers, they will find any form of costing cutting measure.

For me, I’m in the retail business currenlty, employed 5 local senior citizens to help me to run my business. They are doing fine and I quite happy with their performance.

As for the FT , the gov. should have some kind of control. At this present moment is totally out.

I pitty u guys.

With the new pay structure of our government, the social contract betwewen them and citizens shd be null n void. As citizens, we hv to ask what is in it for me. Demands shd work both ways with the government asking for sky high pay, we shd ask why we have to fullfil certain state obligations (eg NS,etc), it becames a transactional relationship. If I feel that my end of the transaction is not fulfilled, perhaps I shd transact with somebody else.

Link to a pertinent article, for the purpose of appreciating the article published by TOC. Keep up the good work TOC.

http://according2ed.vox.com/library/post/50-years-of-pap-the-formula-for-the-realisation-of-harmony-and-foreign-competition.html

Somebody in HardwareZone posted this:

Doing a favor for a friend as he does not have an account here, who would like to seek suggestions from all helpful bros and sis here, and perhaps from the government.

Basically, he is Singaporean, connected with an MNC for more than 10yrs now, has excellent record of performance and attitude, and is now told by his new boss to look for another job. If we think of the ongoing economic and business situation, I thought there is no issue on this, until my friend shared more details.

It turns out that my friend is the only local Singaporean in their department, and the rest are expats (you probably can guess the discrepancy of the salary and benefits of a local vs an expat). The boss is also an expat, and has maintained that headcount reduction is driven by slowing business and to save costs, and has nothing to do with performance or behaviour. I also understand that expats are ONLY justified when there are no local talents available, but this is clear contradiction to take out local talent while retaining the more expensive foreign talent.

It’s easy to side with my friend as he is my good friend, but what about you dear bros and sis. I believe that SG government will not tolerate such approach without due reason, especially that many people look up to SG government for it’s ability to maintain harmony among various race and religion. Would appreciate your helpful comments.

The questions that need your opinions/suggestions are:
1. Is the MNC allowed to implement such kind of approach without violating SG labor laws?
2. What/where is the best venue for my friend to raise this issue in a formal manner?
3. Other comments and suggestions that may help.

42) abdulgafoor on August 26th, 2009 2.41 pm
“so when he say singaporean women need to be given 4 months of maternity leave, he means that foreigner women will have an advantage with stingy Singapore employers who will favor them over Singapore women.”

Yes, we have all noted this excellent observation. So what are we going to do to “level the playing field”? In other words, what does Mr Leong propose should happen?

As with the other observations regarding NS, CPF, maternity etc etc, yes we know these are the “disadvantages” of hiring a Singaporean. Does Mr Leong propose that in order to “level the playing field”, we should abolish NS, remove the CPF system, and stop giving pregnant Singaporeans maternity leave?

7) FTs on August 26th, 2009 2.02 am
“”Only in SG, where the majority is treated like the minority.

34% foreigners…pure demographic insanity…”"

While I am not disagreeing, it is also true that singaporeans have accepted.

Challenge me if you are not agreeable.

Garbagement “boh joh kang” (never do their job well)… collect super-scale salary and sit on bum and shake legs in office day in day out and expect everything to go smooth and well.
NO ONE actually bothered to check on the true (acceptable) RATIO of Local vs Foreign workers in most MNCs or SME companies.
I suggest someone start doing a write-up report, with photos as evidence, and employees coming forward to expose this unfair distribution of foreigner-to-local workers in workplaces soon…
We can start by investigating on all the GLCs and stat boards first…

If CPF is cut now for those coming into the workforce for the 1st time, it would be good for them as they would then be cost competitive with foreigners. This point does not consider how lack of cpf will help them buy HDB. This new batch should also consider buying only new flats that are ‘cheaper’.

They should also work very hard to pay and pay the high cost of living expectable in the future. No free lunch and note that its the people that is funding the country. Spot my drift in that.

#58,
“I suggest someone start doing a write-up report, with photos as evidence, and employees coming forward to expose this unfair distribution of foreigner-to-local workers in workplaces soon…
We can start by investigating on all the GLCs and stat boards first…”

This is easily achievable technically speaking with today’s technology in the palms of the people. Film your office. Take photos of your office.
HR personnel knows many things ;)

When you cannot demand clear answers, this may push people to the wall to take it in their own hands.

regards
Helpless citizen

Hey, you guys & gals really have 2 options:

1) Vote with your brains. Exercise your constitutional rights and vote out the ruling party.

2) Vote with your feet. Walk across the Causeway, get a Malaysian passport and return as FT.

Let me share with you a little secret. Option #1 is actually easier and not as frightening as you may think. Mr. John Howard was the longest serving PM of OZland and made substantial contributions to its economy. But when he is perceived by the electorate as being too arrogant and acting God-like, we in the OZland sent him into pernament retirement (i.e. out of Parliament and even his own constituency). Now, this is really exhilarating!!

all those who suggested we vote out the pap in the next election, i have one question (we would really love to vote out this present gahmen)….how to when we live in walkover wards?
someone suggested in my housewives group to go rent a place in an oppo ward, change ic address, then vote oppo…can or not?
u c how desperate and upset we are with this gahmen for allowing so many angmohs, india indians, china chinese, malaysians FTs n FWs in?

@37) gemami 26 august 1.23pm …well said!

if someone could do a survey on the number of FTs MOE employs in admin/senior management roles, i think it would be pretty shocking! i m pretty sure our locals can do just a good a job as these FTs.

some FTs holding senior management roles in a certain teaching institution up north, they don’t pay cpf, some earning as much as 8K a month…a few do not intend to stay on as PRs cos they don’t like the cpf scheme, they don’t like MM, they don’t have kind things to say about the civil service but yet they are drawing high salaries from the same civil service! they intend to charm their way into their bosses and colleagues’ hearts to get their contracts extended without having to be PRs, they intend to milk as much as they can from the civil service bonuses, then they are going to pack up and leave, and with the experiences they have gained from working in our so called highly efficient civil service, they would have no problem getting jobs when they pack up and go.

what upsets us most is the fact some of them were given the long term stay visa, to enable them to look for another employment should they not be satisfied with their current employer! this should be scrapped!

I agree vote with your brain, that is why I choose PAP the most successful governement in Asia.

“I agree vote with your brain, that is why I choose PAP the most successful governement in Asia.”

Wa, not even SEA, whole of Asia. Please print this headline in ST.

LSS Says this

“Staff of the labour movement have earned a new accolade from their chief for helping to upturn the downturn – they are called “U” fighters.”

“”Our ‘U’ fighters in Singapore are really among the best if not the best in the world because many of the things we are able to think of in Singapore, we are able to get it done,” said Mr Lim.”

Well, he strikes yet again! proclaiming credits to themselves…this is SGP…even when people are suffering

Its a perennial debate when foreigners helm top spots in some companies.

Are singaporean-owned companies abusing the JCS?

Zero companies do that?

Phantom headcounts?

No?

47) anonymous on August 26th, 2009 3.20 pm
I suggest that Singaporean get United to burn those gangster who bring in the FT for their own benefit.
I am prepared to sacrifice anytime so don’t test me. I am extremely pissed by the FT policies in this country when I see so many jobless local.
A creature being corner is the worst one want to know. Is a matter of time.

Jezebella on August 26th, 2009 12.49 pm

On the other hand… because we Singaporeans can just leave the job, we are less prone to workplace abuses……………………………… understand the resentment for all these, we could make do with more understanding for the foreign workers too. They have their own stories to tell.

To Jezebella, no one ask them to come to SG. If they dun like it they can dun come.

Singaporeans are going the way of the dodo. I think we need to return back to wherever we came from which is China, India, Malaysia. Let the new generation of immigrants take over this country. Give them all our land. That was the purpose of our forefathers (like my grandparents or dead grandparents) when they came here about 60 to 70 years ago. Worst country ever to live in. Think everyone is so abused that they are immune to the abuse they are suffering.

To save Singapore, the famiLee have to go and trial for their crimes!

Government doesn’t know how to manage Singapore anymore. This is the result of allowing the same political party to dominate the Parliament for more than 50 years. If you compare Singapore with other countries, you will not find one in which the government has the father, son and daughter-in-law in politics. Based on this, I agree with Li Ao that Singaporeans are very stupid.

70) SpearMint on August 27th, 2009 2.18 am Jezebella on August 26th, 2009 12.49 pm
“…To Jezebella, no one ask them to come to SG. If they dun like it they can dun come.”

I concur! No one Owes No One A Living!
also this : No Free Lunch!
and
“Equality? What Equality?”

#73,
“This is the result of allowing the same political party to dominate the Parliament for more than 50 years.”

yen eh,
singaporeans are so smart and intellectual and educated leh.
So, can i say they got chance to change but they consciously decided NOT TO and thus DENY growth of Alternative system?

its me lah, ah Gan lah. ;)

I know many want to know how they can express their vote.

And many are worried about walkovers and ask how this can be prevented.

Simply we need the opposition to submit nominees to contest for seats. It is harder due to defamation suits and bankruptcies.

I am not sure about the coming GE but the last few GEs showed disappointing opposition efforts to say the least.

In November 2001, only a third of eligible voters had a chance to cast their ballot, as only 29 of 84 seats were contested.

In 2001, 1997, and 1991 — the PAP won the election on nomination day, after the opposition failed to put up candidates for more than half the seats.

Let’s hope the opposition puts up a better fight this time

based on the analysis, the opposition whatever effort even in this crisis and all the big issues presented to them, will not progress.

its the people.

if this were to happen elsewhere, i got a itchy feeling that the result would be very different.

nuture and nature as well as newspaper.

put it simply, if the fat lady does not sing, no chance.

so this means, there is chance BUT the key lies with the fat lady.

i challenge anyone who disagree with me.

Jackson on August 27th, 2009 9.10 am
If you compare Singapore with other countries, you will not find one in which the government has the father, son and daughter-in-law in politics. Based on this, I agree with Li Ao that Singaporeans are very stupid.

Yes, there is another country…..North Korean

List of candidates who are I think are good enough to be MPs:

1. Sylvia Lim
2. Siew KH
3. Kenneth Jeyaratnam
4. Leong Sze Hian
5. Tan Kin Lian
6. Steve Chia
7. Viswa Sadasivan
8. James Gomez

If the opposition can combine and join their forces, I’m sure they will be able to capture at least capture 5 to 10 seats at the next election.

78) Ah Long Kia on August 27th, 2009 9.50 am
Jackson on August 27th, 2009 9.10 am

Political families abound everywhere in the world.

In China, you have the princelings that own the various industries, whose fathers or grandfathers were the founding members of the CCCP.

In Japan, Taro Aso and Yukio Hatoyama are both sons of ex-premiers.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jqkZoPfFihVc_VsL4-e3qFp3w7Zg

In USA, you have the Kennedys, Bushes, Roosevelts etc.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/10/political.families/

In India, you have the Ghandi family.

(There’s really a lot more, just that I’m lazy to post them here.)

You guys should really read the Straits Times. It’ll be good to know more about what’s going on in the world. Maybe then, you’ll actually appreciate what we have in Singapore.

Yes

Like 11) Omega Lee has said, I also believe it is the last chance for locals to protect ourselves.

Now it is 34% foreigners, very soon it will be 50%… and more

All true blue born and bred have the great privilege of serving this great country from 18 to 50.and paid a handsome allowance. WHY are you complaining!.The newbies and PR love to serve but are not allowed—esp the lady that want to send her child to a good school.

80) XiiAoGeNgEnX

But none of the families you have cited actually allows foreigners to openly invade their countries.

We are being invaded and they don’t even need the money to buy a single bullet. So much for national defense.

We are being treated like 2nd rate citizens. We have tried so hard not to be subjugated like when we were a colony or when we were occupied by Japan. Yet we are now going back to square one.

tens and tens of Billions lost by temasek and no accountability. While so many of us are struggling with job insecurities and trying to make ends meet. So much for “economic defense”.

Other families would not allow a person who has lost so much money to return to a leadership role. Yet our famiLEE is happy to reappoint her. Wow. Speechless. Ying Liao Lo.

80) XiiAoGeNgEnX

Another sad victim of ST gov propaganda. Ignorance is bliss, I guess

Or you are a foreigner with a vested stake in the PAP’s pro-foreigner agenda.

Thank you, Sze Hian, for your thought-provoking article.

Unfortunately, I disagree with the fundemental logic of your argument.

In most cases, there is a tradeoff between labor rights, protection, etc, and the cost of employment (which in turns affects competitiveness of the workforce).

RIGHTS/BENEFITS ←→ COST COMPETATIVENESS

I feel you are picking examples that suit your argument- CPF (employer portion), maternity leave, etc. are labor rights and protection for fellow our citizens. It is a choice to accord these and they benefit citizen in terms of rights. Sure, the trade-off is competitiveness vis-à-vis the less rights, foreigners. But that is just merely focusing on the competitiveness downside w.o acknowledging the rights upside.

Similarly, when u cite the insurance for foreign workers (low end workers) as rights for them, you fail to acknowledge there is the competitiveness downside to it, making foreign workers less competitive vis-à-vis locals.

Hence, I feel you are just highlighting whichever side of the coin that makes citizens looks worse off.

Up till now, I don’t think anyone has figured out a way to break out of this tradeoff. So to me, it is simply a case of moving along the indifference curve.- i.e. a matter of choice for countries.

I also disagree that we are stuck with the ‘balance’ that the govt chose in terms of rights vs cost competitiveness trade-off. If one really cares about his competiveness (and values his rights/protection less), he can enter contract with his employer and take on the status of ‘free-lance’ contract workers. As a matter of fact, this is how some people are being exploited (having rights taken away from them).

Having said that, I do agree with on example though- that is NS. It makes us less competitive vis-à-vis foreigners without giving us any additional benefit. Hence, the government MUST at least pay for the salary lost to compensate for it.- although that will probably not cover the intangibles such as time lost, etc.

I probably will also agree that citizen’s benefits are marginally better than PRs to the point it is quite negligible. But it’s a different thing to say citizens are worse off. Your examples (except for NS) are just merely tradeoffs without acknowledging the upside in terms of employee benefits.

I agree it is time for change to protect ourselves.

80) XiiAoGeNgEnX
In China, top officials who have some links to the Party were not spared execution for corruption.
In USA, some of members of those families that you put up are killed or hated to the core by many americans.
In India, Ghandi family members assasinated?
In Japan, seems like they are pretty sick of the political inheritance.

“It takes a blood test to get elected these days,” said Sota Kato, a senior fellow at the Tokyo Foundation, a private research organization. “It is a symptom of how Japanese society has lost its postwar dynamism and become more rigid and less democratic.”

The PM is sadly mistaken about his concerns over racial and religious rifts.

We love our minorities in SG.

It is actually a Local vs foreigner issue, instead of a Chinese vs Malay/Indian issue.

I feel it is one of the biggest problems plaguing our nation.

Which soldier in SG in his right mind would risk his live to protect foreigner lives and their property?

Without even a sense of national identity, are we even a nation??

Dear gemami (37),

I’m not sure if you are being sarcastic or not since you mentioned MM Lee. I will just confirm the point that I’m talking about are normal salary foreign workers instead of the high earning expats.

But you are only half right.

1) Our ancestors left their country to make a living, to have a better life for themselves and their families.
2) Why would they, choose to go to a barren land if that was their objective?
3) Chances are, because they learnt, or thought, or knew there would be opportunities there. In fact, Singapore back then, was said to be a land full of gold.
4) Of course they found that wasn’t true once they got here. But they got stuck here, because they most likely owed a whole load of money back home simply to get a ticket here. That’s partly why we had so many coolies.

It’s not nonsense that Singaporeans can just walk away from his job. When you work, you get unhappy, you just tender resignation, right? Especially if you do not have any family or financial responsibilities. And then you get to look for a new job and it goes in circles.

But for the foreigners, they work on work permits, which are applied by the companies that hire them. They can only be here if they hold the work permit, otherwise they have to pack up and leave within a short period of time. Since their objective here is to earn money, they cannot just resign, like a Singaporean could. They face a high possibility of getting their work permits revoked if they resign.

Just like the Singaporeans, they have to feed their families back home. They may not have children to support, but they will have parents or siblings to support. Or maybe, all three. How about rental too?

Dear Moe Gan Thai (52),

Unless the foreigners have friends or family here, it is likely they came here with little money too, and no support. But people nowadays, tend to be richer than decades or a century ago. Currency inflation also counts. $2 looks nothing now, but I cannot tell how much it’s worth back then.

The problem is with the policy, not the foreigners. We must recognise what truly is causing problems for us, and point the finger at the right place.

For those condemning foreign workers, I sure hope none of you plan to go overseas for work or emigrate. If you are going to do that, it’s best to review your attitude toward foreign workers.

For those condemning foreign workers, I sure hope none of you plan to go overseas for work or emigrate. If you are going to do that, it’s best to review your attitude toward foreign workers and PRs.

I missed out the PRs, hence the mini double post.

88) Jezebella

Your “normal salary foreign workers” are raising our flat prices so much that it has become hardly affordable for many young couples to start a family.

At the same time, your “normal salary foreign workers” willing to take $1k+ jobs even though they are grads, has severely oppressed locals’ salaries. This pay is a lot for them but barely sufficient to survive, lest to say start a family.

In this lose-lose case, we are screwed both ways. Hence, I cannot concur with your sympathy for foreigner PRs and workers whom you seem to support so much.

In Singapore its a situation of dammned or be dammned! If u are a singaporean you complain and if you are not you also have reasons to complain.

Those who leave their own countries and come live here and complain, well if you are not happy then go back home to where you came from and do your complaining there. You probably left cos you were not happy anyway.

Singaporeans who at the same time who are not happy thne migrate to some other place you want to go to. The government should also make it easy and allow those who want to leave the country and not put all kinds of rules and regulations with regard to their CPF/ Medisafe etc cos they will need the money to start over wherever they be going to.

Hopefully both sets of parties will find happines in thier own right. The singapore government should not play the role of GOD and think they know best whats good for everyone! Those who leave, leave. And those foreigners who want to come here stop complaining. Not happy then go back home too.

Jezebella,

I do understand your soft-spot for the foreign worker, particularly those ‘normal’ ones by your definition.

When I mentioned ‘barren land’, it meant that the Singapore of those days were at its infant stage, struggling to stay afloat. It is unlike the present day Singapore, with riches to tap upon, which the new immigrant is helping themselves to, at the expense of the locals who have contributed to the wealth of riches by their hard labour.

The vast difference here is that our ancestors had to struggle to build from scratch, while the new immigrant struggles to fit into a resplendent mould – and we are supposed to help them fit in? The reactive response cannot be other than to question: “What’s in it for me?”

You see, the answer is – Nothing! Except that we have to readjust our way of life & mannerisms and to give our jobs and space up to these foreigners. And we are supposed to be doing all these with a big, wide smile on our faces.

You mentioned that; “ It’s not nonsense that Singaporeans can just walk away from his job” and rightfully concluded that: “ …especially if you do not have any family or financial responsibilities”. Now find me someone in Singapore who does not have this set of responsibility. Unless you are comparing apples to oranges – you argument is calculated to suit your argument. Let’s get real please.

With the recent employment climate, any Singaporean would want to be tied down with a work-permit. It guarantees gainful employment for the duration of the permit’s validity period. With it, he does not have to worry about retrenchment.

And then we are supposed to consider their families back home and the hungry mouths they have to feed, the siblings they have to support and the rentals they have to pay. Wow! This is taking it way too far. Tell me then, when they start taking away our jobs, our homes and our lives – have they considered us for one moment?

Dear 90) FT,

I won’t comment on the housing issue because I honestly don’t have any knowledge about that. :)

The $1k plus salary is a lot when converted to their home currency, but remember they are also living in Singapore, and what’s left for them to live on here is probably halved.

We have our own problems, and they have theirs. All of us have our own stories to tell. But as I said, point the finger at the right place. People blame them for coming to Singapore, but what allowed them to come in huge numbers the first place?

Who’s not plugging the holes that Singaporeans are falling into either as a direct or indirect result of the Foreign Talent Scheme? It all goes back to one single point.

It’s no use blaming and berating and ill-treating the foreigners. One might leave, but another ten will come in.

When are the next elections? That will be Singaporeans’ best chance to tell the government what’s wrong with their policies.

Dear 92) gemami,

I won’t touch on the ancestors part again. It seems like my points kind of bounced off or something. :)

So we don’t have to empathise with them. So why the heck should they care about us? Why should they leave or not come here in consideration of us? We barely give a d@mn about them anyway.

What I was suggesting was, 将心比心, or put yourself in their shoes. Let’s have more understanding.

I don’t believe that all three million Singaporeans (my estimation) are all that hard up. Some people say they are poor and all, but they are actually burning their money in cigarettes and luxury items, which is why they don’t have money in the first place.

It may not apply in the current economic environment, but can you deny that job-hopping happens frequently? The fact is (which what I was trying to say), Singaporeans can always leave a job and get another one. Foreign workers on the other hand, will be the END OF STORY. Some may even have piling debts back home they had not managed to paid finish before the END OF STORY.

Just a clarification on a common misconception on the work permit thing..

it ties FWs to employers, but it does not tie employers to FWs. (work permit and s-pass holders)

meaning, workers cannot dump the employers and switch jobs.
But employers can dump the workers anytime they like, even before their work permit ends and before they recover their $8000 SGD agency fees they paid to come. that is why we have hundreds of workers gathering at MOM within the last one year.

and yes, they pay fees to work in singapore. so the net amt they gained is not as high as what people think.

when the obligations go one-way in favor of the employer, it is a misconception to think the work permit system give them guaranteed jobs. if anything, it is a ‘bondage’ system.

Dear Jezebella,

Good that you’ve decided not to touch the ‘ancestor’ issue again. It is really insulting to our ancestors if you had decided to continue with it.

Now let me try once again to make you see your pov in perspective. You ask that we show more understanding. What is it that we have to understand?

1. That the foreign worker is on foreign soil living a hard life with no chance of walking away from it.
2. That the foreign worker has problems with feeding his family back home because the locals in this hard land do not treat them nice.
3. That they are not able to pay off their debts because the locals can job-hop while they cannot.
4. That their endeavor will come to an end if the locals do not understand them and their plight.

Now what is it that we are supposed to understand?

HI RW, thanks for the clarification.

96) Jezebella on August 27th, 2009 12.04 pm
The $1k plus salary is a lot when converted to their home currency, but remember they are also living in Singapore, and what’s left for them to live on here is probably halved.

You are only comparing the NOW. You missed the fact that what they saved has much more value than what the Singaporean who continues to live in Singapore saves.

In short, if both Singaporean and FW/T lives hand to mouth NOW… in the future, the FW/T can retire to a comfortable life back in their country, but the Singaporean continues to live hand to mouth.

testing. why is everything italicized?

I support Jezebella who supports FT.

singaporeans cannot form a strong Alternative party as much as many wanted a change.

Fresh GENES are needed.

If necessary, complete overhaul.

PR and work permit holders do not neet to contribute CPF, so I believe they do not have to declare income tax also. Do they also enjoy the GST credits to offset the GST increases. Anyone know?

71) xmen on August 27th, 2009 12.19 am

I am prepared to sacrifice anytime so don’t test me. I am extremely pissed by the FT policies in this country when I see so many jobless local.
A creature being corner is the worst one want to know. Is a matter of time.

bravo! singapore needs more patriots like u so that we can vote out those highfalutin million-dollar demanding ministers who have closed their ears and heart already.

#102.
Yes the youths of today should think about their future, maybe there should be an uprising of their physical,economic, mental and spiritual outlook that will enable them to come to the forefront of society to create a totally new Singapore that is vibrant, technologically advanced with a high quality of living standards for all. When its time to work we work, time to rest we rest and when its time to retire we retire. Present Singapore make you work until your last breath with no time to have a peace of mind.

#7
Our government have a very magnanimous policy that is to treat minority (FTs??) with extra care (article 152 FT plus)

please wake up singaporean….. think far ahead for our children… singaporean will never happy again….

Dear 98) gemami,

You think it’s an insult because you missed my points. In fact, you didn’t even really address them in your replying post.

I thank RW for stating what he did. He made things much clearer.

Our Govt keeps thinking that foreigners working here in Singapore are all very talented. Many are not. A lot of the foreign professionals come here with fake qualifications and our ICA and MOM are hopless in doing anything about it.

Here’s an article highlighting the fact that there are many fake Indian IT CVs in the markerplace:

http://dqindia.ciol.com/content/spotlight/2009/109030602.asp

Quote:
“According to a recent KPMG report, one of every four CVs in the Indian tech space is fake. Also, six of every ten fake CVs have a direct or indirect link to Hyderabad.”

Dearest Jezebella,

Well, if you want to engage in a public discourse, you have to state your position and your points clearly. You cannot simply evade a point for whatever reason, by saying, for example “…I won’t comment on the housing issue….”, or “…We have our own problems, and they have theirs…. All of us have our own stories to tell…”, or, “…I won’t touch on the ancestors part again….”, or, “…You think it’s an insult because you missed my points” …. And so on…..

I have asked, what is your point so that we can understand the foreign worker better? The ones you have offered thus far has one common refrain – to put the foreigner above ourselves – which includes our families, our livelihoods, our way of life and our homes. If you want Singaporeans to play the friendly host then give us some better reasons will you?

One more thing Jezebella,

The reason why I did not seem to have addressed your points is because I am confused by your call to pay more attention to the foreigner at the expense of our friends and relatives whom we see struggling each day.

That is why I broke them up into the four points – by your own definition and according to your own reasoning – for you to tell us what they mean, and how Singaporeans like us should see beyond your points and to happily embrace the foreign worker like you want us to.

PR please don’t talk so much here…. if you got so many complain go back to your country or convert to singaporean….

Dear Gemami,

I am avoiding the housing comment because I am an idiot in housing topics. Why would I want to comment on something that I know nuts about.

As for the others, they were pretty much self-explanatory, actually…

But I also must apologise… I admit I have not read the second half of your previous post which is why I had not addressed your questions.

I am not asking Singaporeans to put the foreigners above them, but at a level pedestral (sp?), to put themselves in their shoes. Never did I suggest we should throw away everything we have for the foreigners.

But as I’ve said, they are here to stay. We don’t have to get all too friendly with them or be a friendly host, but do we have to be nasty?

1. That the foreign worker is on foreign soil living a hard life with no chance of walking away from it.
2. That the foreign worker has problems with feeding his family back home because the locals in this hard land do not treat them nice.
3. That they are not able to pay off their debts because the locals can job-hop while they cannot.
4. That their endeavor will come to an end if the locals do not understand them and their plight.

1. Pretty much ‘yes’, unless they get PR, unfortunately… (still on normal salary FW)

For points 2, 3 and 4, you insinuate that I suggest the problems of the FWs are the fault of locals. Is there a better way to twist my words all around, I must ask?

You need to reread my posts to see if I was blaming the locals, or COMPARING the situations of locals and the FWs. The only thing I’m blaming is the Foreign Talent Scheme which opened the floodgates with no control.

All I can say is, I currently work with FWs, so I’m spelling out what I do know about them.

I suppose at the end of the day, we can agree to disagree.

I am with gemami…sadly jezebella, your points is like a log in a river…

[The reason why I did not seem to have addressed your points is because I am confused by your call to pay more attention to the foreigner at the expense of our friends and relatives whom we see struggling each day.]

My last post on the subject. :)

My points are the ancestors points, actually… But I’m not sure how this correlates. :)

Anyway, my answer can be found in my post above but I can repeat it. I am not asking locals to sacrifice everything to love the foreigners, but to try and understand their circumstances, their situations and be more tolerant. We have our difficulties, but so do they.

There is one more thing I wanted to say… which will make it clearer… unfortunately my short-term memory has kicked in… :(

hi Jezebella,

how does 1 react when the FTs/FWs are a direct threat to your economic & physical survival (for some its a family’s)?

the pre-independant S’pore decades ago is a poor comparison to S’pore of today. the differences are oceans apart.

…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..

hi Yamamoto,

i hear you!!

i stand on Gemami’s side too!! ;)

Ai yah, old men can’t do anything already. When you passed 50 years olds, your life span lease is every 3 years lah. For those 60 years, your lease is yearly, 70 year is monthly and after 80 years daily renewal lol.

that is why , we older person should quickly advise our younger men to learn from our FT. They should upon their NS service ROD, quickly pack their bag and go to work in Foriegn countries. Not to warn you, over the years many of our talented young men had already do so lah. Therefore, we are wondering where are those eligible young men for our local girl gone? that why more FT are required Mei Ban Fa.

Sincerely my last post, since I am unable to resist replying to Yamamoto.

Dear 114) Yamamoto,

It’s all logs in a river because you don’t have good feelings toward FWs.

To make my position clear, I am more neutral towards FWs BUT I am very fond of my FW colleagues. :) All I did was to microscope a little into what they face in their lives. I have absolutely no intention of belittling the difficult situations some Singaporeans find themselves in.

114) Jezebella

I think you may have a mistake “That they are not able to pay off their debts because the locals can job-hop while they cannot.” I don’t think job hopping constitute and leads to FW been unable to pay off their debts…rather, it is caused by unscrupulous organization…who hold back pays etc etc…

the job hopping will only affect FW in the case whereby they can’t leave a job that they don’t like.

in fact “Singaporeans can always leave a job and get another one.” If it is a married man, with liabilities such as paying for housing…do you think they can always leave a job and get another one? in the current economic climax?

Jezebella , if you don’t mind me saying…although you do work with the FW, but is that the whole entire FW population? while in your previous post, you speak about singaporeans wealth status generally, when in fact you don’t understand the constrains locals are facing too…and failed to cover the people that are affected

however, all this are due to differing perception…however, Gemami has been a long time poster here and usually, his comment is constructive…

Jezebella,

your views would have been more acceptable if you are talking about foreigners who are duped into vice trades? because for most locals with difficulties, decent choices are dwindling as months go by.

the fact that foreign workers have already calculated their risk of hefty agent fees, working in unfamiliar environment & perhaps living an isolated lives, etc, yet took the plunge, are indictions how badly they want to work overseas.

and Jezebella,

I think i understand your “ancestor” point….but look at it….they came at a time whereby it is equal opportunity for everyone….pay rate are roughly the same

but the FW comes at a time, whereby they are been paid lowered and that tilt the balance against in singapore….thus, with regards to this article…if you want fair treatment, the playing field must be leveled….you cannot expect everything to be nicely laid down…

Dear Jezebella

You are putting words into my mouth

“It’s all logs in a river because you don’t have good feelings toward FWs. ”

You are not me, so please do not assume and put the words into my mouth…i have FW colleagues too, Filipinos and I like them too

I was at this skin care boutique recently open at ION Orchard. When I asked the salesgirl about the quantity of the product, she (mainland Chinese) replies to me about the ingredients of the product. Obviously, she does not understand my question at all. How do you expect these ppl to work at the retail sector & provide good services. FTs indeed!!

23) colortv on August 26th, 2009 11.32 am
“When citizens are eligible for employer CPF, it is cited that foreigners have a better deal in that they cost less as the employer does not need to pay his portion of the CPF contributions.”

Ask the foreigners which would they prefer if employment is at stake – with employer cpf contribution or without ?

“When employers are required to insure foreigners, it results in a higher cost to employers but the article chooses to say that foreigners have a better deal with insurance.”

Higher cost to employer ? In the form of additional insurance premium ? how much higher in respect to employer contribution, disruption due to annual reservists, etc, etc, etc. ? Surely the employers & you know what the mathematics are.

“I would have expected a more balanced point of view.”

I sure would love to see this happen, especially if this is done unmoderated (minus the hotheaded vulgarities) in the mainstream media.

This is a good article. I am piss off with the current government ! We need a change !! I say we vote them out in the next election. Can we start printing flyers with articles like the above and start distributing it to all the HDBs letterboxes etc.. we need to wake all singaporean up and make a change. This country belong to us and not the LEE family !!

It has nothing to do with FT ?

It has everything to do with a govt that exercise poor judgement and created these policies that are cascaded down to us

What we need is change,exercise your vote for an opposition. We may not get the best, but at least we have the change that we wanted.

Its no rocket science, the opposition will always be protrayed as useless, but we got to ask ourselves, do we want to be “WALKING with DINOSAURS”

We are in the FUTURE,and OTHERS are living in the PAST……

i don’t understand MM Lee, he is so old and near his expiry date. Yet die die must be MM, why cannot let go gracefully. Somemore must bring in his retarded looking son and give our national bank credit card to the ah soh.

why why tell me why?

Doctorwho,

near expiry? someone pasted a sticker to extend the expiry date like Tamiflu. lol… :)

hallo?

can someone tell me in how short a time will the singapore culture and mentality and people as we know it be Replaced by the new culture from the other 50% new citizens?

I am preparing for the worst.

I accept this – civilizations come and go. Look at the Roman empire.

If we migrate we are called QUITTERS.
If they migrate, they are called foreign TALENTS.
NS for everyone–Or scrapped NS.
Stop building golf courses for Generals–NS men struggling to make a living.
Stop building club houses for NS men —the same old hundred people using
it to play badminton.
Stop throwing peanuts at NS men—and called it allowance.
If you can pay the first son 6 times OBAMA pay, you can afford to pay NS men a market salary.
How much does a General get?–a million dollar question.

We should first ask why the need for so many foreigners in the first place?

1) We don’t have enough manpower? Common sense tells that if we want a pool of 20-40 year-old’s NOW, we should have produce them 20-40 years back. Instead, we had the 2-is-enough policy.

2) We don’t have the know-hows/expertise? Then what has our world-class education system been doing these years? ST, 26 August, article: “A Step closer to bendable flat screens” mentioned that:

“…To date, 26 A*Star start-ups have generated $35 million in revenue and created more than 480 jobs….”

Wow!? The cream of our scholars/FTs has SO FAR generated what a medium-large sized firm, employing average people, could have generated in ONE year! I supposed we are paying peanuts to these scholars & talent-hunted FTs.

3) It is said that Toyota spent US$8 billions in R&D on (mainly) hybrid and fuel-cell development (Pernick, 2007). Are we similarly spending billions on any clean energy technologies? Solar? These are potential industries for domestic growth and local employment. Where do our billions go to instead? TH investment spree?

So, this is not simply a question of playing field. It is about mismanagement and accountability. Pls ask if our MP’s deserved their million$ pay.

My last wish is to see Obama say something about singapore.
All hope is lost.
While dissent is all time high, imho,
i see the same problem with the opposition as before.
Thus, i have no confidence.
I hope it is just me and not all of you.
Whatever happens to singapore, i will have no effect.
I am helpless.
I have given up.
I am a stakeholder?

As far as i know,

- Almost 100% of the hdb rubbish collector/cleaner are indians FW
- No more singaporean construction workers
- majority of kitchen helper and chefs are malaysian or FW
- majority of chinese restaurant waiter waitresses are malaysian or FW
- Factory operators, majority also malaysian or china chinese
- lots of indian / chinese IT professional

Questions

- Are singaporean willing to pay more for services / food if employers hired local?
- Are employers willing to pay more to hire local?
- Are singaporean willing to accept a lower pay?
- Are singaporean willing to improve on their service attitude?
- Are singaporean willing to accept fellow countrymate’s boochap service?

First the malaysian, then the india indian, then china chinese, now philipinos, vietnamese. Nex time you observed carefully, your fren / classmate or collegue might be a foreigner.

Currently 1 out of 4 people in singapore are foreigners.

The funny thing is, we want to migrate to other countries and expect them to treat us nicely and with respect. Yet, over our country, we keep on bashing the foreigners.

131) Ahgong on August 28th, 2009 12.54 am As far as i know,

- Almost 100% of the hdb rubbish collector/cleaner are indians FW

===============================

i suspect some are bangladeshis. I could not tell the diff also.

To #130,
I suspect why opposition appears no significant change is
the lack of good people.
ask our youths, if you were invited to tea would you go?
if you were given the chance to join opposition or ruling party,
which would you choose for the sake of the country?

there may lie the answer.
we need Visionaries as leaders.

hi Ahgong,

- Are singaporean willing to pay more for services / food if employers hired local?
. prices will not come down even if foreigners are hired, for stalls it the rent that costs most.

- Are employers willing to pay more to hire local?
. rent is a big component to business.

- Are singaporean willing to accept a lower pay?
. the low pay must be self sustainable with enough to support 2 aging parents. low enough?

- Are singaporean willing to improve on their service attitude?
. this is a complex issue where employment contract & its accompanying details comes into play- fair employment terms.

- Are singaporean willing to accept fellow countrymate’s boochap service?
. boss bochap, staff bochap? its too easy (& unfair) to tar all S’poreans with the same brush. how about service staff who can communicate in chinese only? can S’pore accept that?

Ah Gong ah…” Are singaporean willing to improve on their service attitude?” the current FW that is in the service line doesn’t seems to be offering any improvement…in fact it may be a backward slide…

“Are singaporean willing to accept a lower pay” : this question can be direct at our cost of living…does it allow us to survive with a lower pay? and secondly, if it is a level playing field between locals and FW, then it will be fair to locals….right now as FW can be employed at lower cost, of course i will employ them to have a bigger margin

“- Are singaporean willing to pay more for services / food if employers hired local?”

Woa, comparing to the escalating rental cost, the cost of hiring is according to mrs goh, peanuts…furthermore, let me throw this back…when boss shift their staffs from local to FW, did the food get cheaper even when the salary paid to staffs r lower…

Ahgong

One thing, i will like to add on, FYI, the collectors at my estates are from PRC….so you can change that as far as you know!

Yamamoto,

wah, we think alike!! 8)

Yamamoto,

Thanks for taking the time to pen what are my feelings too.

I am not KKK extremist but the FW and PRs really need to go.

Something is severely wrong when our sport athletes, our hawkers, our bus drivers, (even some taxi drivers), cooks, uni students, public school students, condo owners, HDB owners are all becoming foreigners. They are squeezing us in every aspect of our lives.

Yet our PAP is telling us in newspapers, tv news and even dramas that they are good for us. I cannot accept that spin. I have seen ministers earning a bag of peanuts, yet my dust on the peanut only seems to shrink.

When I was a NSF, I only got the germ on the peanut. I tell my dad’s friend who is a security guard at a condo this:

“Uncle, actually all SG men do the same job as you. We guard the foreigners and their property for them with our lives.

The management tells us that we must wave and welcome them when they enter the condo estate.

The management says that without foreigners coming in to live in the condo, we would have no jobs.

Somehow the estate does not belong to the guards whose families have guarded for generations and stood by in times of difficulty. It only belongs to those who flock in during times of prosperity.

Yet as we look at the estate with ever escalating prices. We realize that a place and a home in the estate is beyond our reach.

I am a Singaporean “manager” in a MNC in Singapore. I have malaysians under me who earn “peanuts” in terms of Singapore currency. I commute by bus to work. Can’t afford a car because I have installments to pay for my HDB and a family to take care of.

One day, I visited my Malaysian subordinates. I am amazed. They own a nice Honda Civic, big family, a landed home and can spend like nobody’s business. I felt free in Malaysia and a pauper in Singapore.

There is a 1 out of 10 chance of surviving to the age of 95 when you are 85.

If you think that things are bad after someone who is aged 85 dies, then why convert to S’pore citizenship.

The chances of that happening is 9 out 10.

In fact, there is 5/10 chance of that someone not surviving beyond 87.

So if you convert now, you have 1/2 chance of suffering after he is gone.

They are not conducting the elections now because of the failure of HJ.

There is 1/2 chance that they will have to conduct a funeral after the election.

Please don’t convert to Singapore citizen now.

Singapore is on free fall and nose diving towards ground zero. Singaporeans, if you care enough for your family and your next generation, you must take action NOW before it is all too late. They are letting in more and more foreigners to get votes to keep them in power (they don’t need them with GRCs but just in case opposition gets stronger), and to suck more money for themselves to enjoy . They treat the masses of Singaporeans with contempt and the boldness and audacity to do so increases because of their foreigners as backup).

Whoever you vote, just make very sure you DO NOT VOTE IN ANOTHER LEE KUAN YEW. As long as the incumbents are not LKY material, we are SAFE, very SAFE. The most dangerous man we do not want, is one who is super intelligent (therefore tops in being crafty & scheming) combined with bad character (cares only for himself, therefore tyrannical & oppressive).

I would rather we vote in people who have just above average intelligence combined with proven good characters, who cares for people. The role of the govt is to be there for the citizens, to be on the citizens side. Let the super intelligent go into industries to roll in the money from outside Singapore, and also create jobs for fellow Singaporeans.

With all the success & achievement, it is not fair to ask Mr Leong Sze Hian to risk being sued till bankrupt or put in prison or exiled. Therefore, please do not wait till you have a ‘credible’ opposition. This cannot happen until the threat is removed. This is the last chance to get rid of traitors of our country!

Hello folks, no point of complaining. Just remember to vote wisely in the coming election. As I said before, don’t be trick by the PAP gov. by giving us goodies again. All of us must talk to our family members and friends about all these issue. So that they know how to cast their vote.

132) Ahgong on August 28th, 2009 12.57 am
The funny thing is, we want to migrate to other countries and expect them to treat us nicely and with respect. Yet, over our country, we keep on bashing the foreigners.

You are senile like MM?

Any country with 1/4 population made up of foreigners will have its citizen bash the foreigners. Anyway, no country will do that. Only SingKaPore … so, be prepared to be sinked. The economy will take a big downfall after Christmas. And SingKaPore will deep to its worst. More Singaporeans will be asked to clear their desks.

But who cares. Certainly not your rich ministers and high-rank civil servants who are still partying with YOUR MONEY. Then, you will find a cheap FW taking up the job that you had lost. Not because you do not want the job. But because you were fired by the company who finds you too expensive. Then, your boss tells everyone that no Singaporean wants a job with him. So, he hires a FW. I hope that it happens to you.

131) Ahgong on August 28th, 2009 12.54 am

Your questions
- Are singaporean willing to accept a lower pay?
- Are singaporean willing to improve on their service attitude?
- Are singaporean willing to accept fellow countrymate’s boochap service?

My reply:
The only foreigners I want to hire is to replace the entire government and all the civil servants. Since
1) they are not willing to accept a lower pay;
2) they do not want to improve their service attitude;
3) and you are right, I cannot accept their BOCHAP service.

131) Ahgong on August 28th, 2009 12.54 am
Your questions
- Are singaporean willing to accept a lower pay?

1. I don’t think Singaporeans should accept a lower pay. For every FW in Singapore, there’s at least a hundred cheaper ones who tried but failed to get in. So competing to be the cheapest labour is definitely out of the question. I think the solution is to improve ourselves, and stay ahead of the skills curve.

Personally, I feel Singapore’s doing quite well in this sense. We have a world class education system that gives us the skills to compete globally. For those out of the school-going age, we have SPUR, which upgrades workers to their next level.

@132) Ahgong on August 28th, 2009 12.54 am

Actually 1 in 3 are foreigners here.

If you want Singaporeans to take up some of the jobs mentioned, then have a minimum wage like other countries. This should be based on our COST of living, e.g. public transport = $100 per month ($4 either way daily x 25), meals = $600 ($2.50 chicken rice x 2 meals x 4 persons x 30 days), HDB loan = $300-800 monthly, electricity/water/conservancy = $100+(?) monthly, etc….etc…(daily cuppa of kopi considered a luxury = $0.80 x 30 = $24). Remember this is disposable income, not gross. FWs don’t have to pay for transport, lodging, electricity, etc.. so they can get by with $800 here. This “$800″ is then used by employers/govt as yardstick for the market rate.

@133) Ahgong on August 28th, 2009 12.57 am

Movement of people across countries is normal globally. However, SGP seems to have very lax admission criteria. See my post above #130 and tell me the revenues & expertise that these FTs have brought to us. Really, which new INDUSTRY has developed locally due to these FTs, so that that industry is employing 100,000’s of locals? Biotech? We have already lost out on the race to develop a H1N1 vaccine. Like the Olympic silver medal, getting second-best FTs that produced second best-to-market products/services means nothing.

If these FTs are really contributing to the growth of SGP, then we should allow the certain percentage in. However, the opinion is that they are here mainly to make up the numbers, i.e. to cover up on the govt’s past mistakes.

When the talent pool increases, the employers have many choices. It is only natural that cost of talent will be depressed with a bigger talent pool.

Many foreigners come with excellent work experience or good education background; on this front I do not think that Singaporeans have an advantage. The only way for Singaporeans to get out of this rut is to stay relevant (improve skills) and maintain a positive attitude towards your job. I am not talking about attending a few cusory SPUR programs as improving skills take much more than that. If you have attended any, you will know what I mean.

As for the Government, I think they are doing a lousy job in allowing so many foreigners into Singapore in such a short time. Singapore is bursting at her seams. We are facing more violent crimes, ovecrowding, escalating housing prices and fierce competition for jobs. I dread to think how will we grow to 6 million from the current 4.84 million people. I hope they have a heart for the people and not do this for their own selfish reasons.

Great article.

to Ahgong:

who wants to emigrate if your country is good?

If your govt didn’t lose your ah gong’s monies?

if your govt protect the ah gong that loses monies.

Also, can you ask your pay master to send some good people to this blog to do counter argument and come up with better names?

The recent group of people by the alias of coffeeshopahpek and andrewsomething and you included, sucks.

Making money this way suck as well.

So sorry for your parents.

We got to acknowledge there is a gap.

Boss can’t give higher wage because of high rent.
Workers can’t take lower wage because of high HDB prices.
FWs are just a easy way of solving the gap.

—————

Intuitively, I think we cannot solve the high rent/high HDB prices.
Land is scarce in this country.
That is a fact we cannot change unless we go take over neighbors.

——–

For the argument that govt are controlling prices thru HDB, Capital land etc:
Let’s assume they do and control prices, should they devalue properties prices?

Property prices are a sensitive thing that must be treated with care because it is household wealth for all Singaporeans.

It is difficult to retrospectively say, prices are too high, let’s bring HDB prices from 200k to 100k. It may benefit 10% of the young pple looking for flats (myself included) but it will screw 90% of the people who already have flats.

In short, we are stuck. =(

Thanks to Mike, Yamamoto, Mice is Nice, Very Pissed and others for concurring with my pov and for your support.

Dear Jezebella,

Let me ask you a question based on the topic of this thread, ‘Level the playing field for locals and foreigners in employment’. The reason the article was written is because there is an outcry from the local quarters that we are losing so many aspects of our lives, in our homeland, to the mad influx of foreign workers disguised as foreign talents.

Is the field a level one, right here, right now?

Never mind if the reasons are the friendly local policies, the lure of money, the running away from oppressive regimes or to really start a new life in a foreign land; the fundamental question remains whether all these reasons are contributing to a level playing field.

You see, you have chosen to be selective and to choose the only reason that supports your reasoning that we should not blame the foreign worker but on the friendly local policies, and using it to compare them with our ancestors.

There are so many comments here to help you understand why Singaporeans are up in arms with the foreign worker, yet you continue to be selective in your reading and choose to only hear the things you want to hear. If you really want to understand the whole issue of SG vs FT, you have to start to read and understand the points each commenter is attempting to put across. Perhaps then you might find it easier to stay focus and share your views better with us.

Let me attempt to see your points one more time, and since you have stated quite clearly that your points are “the ancestors points”, we shall backtrack to take a closer look.

“They are here for a simple reason, the same reason why our ancestors first came to this island in the first place – to earn a living and support their family.” @ 32.

Wrong! Many who are currently here do not have these commitments. They are young, single and carefree. What they earn, they spend fleetingly and live for the day. Go visit Golden Mile Complex to know what I mean. The numerous foreign drunkards are a daily headache for the local police force.
Go to Geylang, Chinatown and Joo Chiat and you see foreign talents soliciting their wares. Are they feeding their families back home or are they here purely because of greed and the need to keep up with the Joneses, or for plain fun?

Look at our factory workers. How many of them are Singaporeans? They are mostly foreigners who are here because of the higher currency value of the SG dollar. What do most of these workers do when the get the salaries each month? They blow most of it away on clothing, accessories and a life of fun. Even if they give 50% of their paycheck to their families, they can still live it up in their own country because of the conversion rate. They 50% they give to their families can be saved up and, in time, may allow them to purchase a piece of land or two back home.

“Insulting current foreigners is no less than insulting your own ancestors who came here to make a living.” @ 33.

This is the most insulting comment on the hard work of our ancestors. The difference here, and what you have failed to understand, is that our ancestors came here because there is an opportunity to build a better life. The new immigrant of today are coming here to grab the opportunity of a better life.

Our ancestors created their own opportunities. The new immigrants take the opportunities already there.

“ In fact, Singapore back then, was said to be a land full of gold.” @ 90.

May be true, but they sure as hell have to dig for it. The new immigrant comes to a gold-plated environment. Hope you do see the difference now.

“It’s no use blaming and berating and ill-treating the foreigners. One might leave, but another ten will come in.” @ 90.

Sure, but the brainless one will be replaced by ten thinking ones.

In short, the words of Gan Kim Kim @ 76 might just say it all …

“… no one ask them to come to SG. If they dun like it they can dun come. … No one Owes No One A Living …..and …. No Free Lunch! ”.

@129) Quitters on August 27th, 2009 11.19 pm
@144) NotQuiteSo on August 28th, 2009 7.49 am

I like both your reasonings!

Actually, this is also a test to see if I am marked for moderation, again.

to RW

//Land is scarce in this country.

No. Land is not scarce in Singapore.

Just look around you and all the mindef training ground and you have an idea.

It is an excuse not to spend the effort to build more and just charge a fee for people transferring ownership.

Author: theforgottongeneration
Remember this is disposable income, not gross. FWs don’t have to pay for transport, lodging, electricity, etc.. so they can get by with $800 here. This “$800″ is then used by employers/govt as yardstick for the market rate.

Uhm, I would politely disagree with you here. FWs have to live somewhere. They have to be transport between their lodge and their workplace. They don’t use candles, so they need electricity. They drink water and YES they shower, so there’s water bills as well. Oh and believe it or not, they DO eat.

All this is done in Singapore. And they pay Singapore Dollar to do these things, at the same rates, same prices that Singaporeans pay. So the expenses that they incur while living here is probably around the same as any Singaporean.

The difference is that they come from a much poorer background than any Singaporean can imagine, so they’re willing to accept a far lower standard of living. Can we then fault them for being more frugal than us?

The race to the bottom will be won by the FWs. Singaporeans should be racing to the top. That’s why SPUR and MOE are so important to our nation’s success.

It is a very simple issue.

Who owns the most expensive houses in Singapore?

Who benefits when property prices are up?

Who makes the policy linking to property price inflations?

And no. Singapore has no corruption.

To NotQuiteSo :

Yeah. Great observation!

to XiiAoGeNgEnX :

As if the issue here is about poor foreigners here in S’pore slogging in our homes?

The issue is about taking up the protection of Singapore and exposing them to uneven terms at work.

157) What is there to oppose on August 28th, 2009 8.31 am

true what you said. how secure are we and how safeguard are we to even step out to talk? the prison is just a 15min drive away from us and it take just within an hour for us to be sitting in the prison for the rest of our life before we can even voice up more then 5min and tell the truth for the singaporeans to know.

so we are being force to stay back or face the lifetime prison away from our family. while the rest of singaoreans will just say ”’ POOR AH……..the guy go prison””lucky i never step out or else i also go in liao. touch wood touch wood. suai suai. don’t fight LKY OR PAP or else we suffer more just give what they want and listen.
160) modern malay pahlawan on August 28th, 2009 9.25 am

IS this what you singaporeans are???!!!!!!!

to me it seems like.

long life LKY!!

long life PAP!!!!

do you think we would say this?

balls to them just wait for the election and see what we singaporeans will do. we vote them past election but this election wesingaporeans will not vote and we will speak out to our top of our voice to all singaporeans!! if trouble comes we rather commit suicide then to let this goverment play our life in prison!! or we will fight even the military comes in!!!

do you think this is what singaporeans will say like the above??

this is what singapore will do:

election time:

all singaporeans will vote for PAP.

election result: PAP all win opposition lost.

singaporeeans say:

haiya PAP win again. why ah…? why every year PAP win ah?

ok la it’s over let go home and take a rest tomorrow got work liao must wake up 5am.

PAP:ok singaporeans now time to increase everything and time to bring foreign in

singaporeans: hmm…..ok la what to do just live with it and see if miracle happen for us to live a better life. next election don’t want PAP already suffer alot.

NEXT ELECTION:

singaporeans all voted PAP.

singaporeans :haiya …opposition lost again??

opposition got no balls la to fight PAP. they just talk only.
———————————————————————————————————–

so does singaporeans? can you expect gold if you keep going in the trash and digging trash bags and empty cans ?

opposition won’t make it even how strong they are if singaporeans don’t give a change to hold their hands the same way you singaporeans has been holding LEE KUAN YEW and his family hand for over 50years and eat sh!t.

so not about oppositon but it’s all about we singaporeans. if we go as all to fight for justice not race then we will succeed and there no way we can end up in prison for such thousands of singaporeans who stood up but i one bloody asss hole go up and stand to talk while the rest hide being the curtain to see what happen then sh!t is what this people behind the curtain deserve!

get it?

good

142) wow on August 28th, 2009 5.45 am There is a 1 out of 10 chance of surviving to the age of 95 when you are 85.

Lol. So you are saying that there is a very high chance that this Division One team will lose their star player soon. Tide is changing soon?

“33) Ahgong on August 28th, 2009 12.54 am
- Are singaporean willing to accept a lower pay?”

Is this question applicable to those higher mortals ? Double standard ? If lower pay is good enough for common people, it should be good enough for not so uncommon higher mortals ? Talking about uncommon, common people should strive to be uncommon (positively lah just like those uncommon higher mortals).

>> #157

“Who benefits when property prices are up?”

The people who bought houses/HDBs in 1970, 1980s. Within one generation, HDB flats that cost 50,000 to buy became $200,000. Most people that generation suddenly have their assets gone up.

IMO, it is not a rich-poor divide. Regardless you bought HDB or private that time, you will have ur assets gone up. Only thing is by how much.

The real divide is the inter-gen divide. Property prices going up increase benefits the previous generation and not the current generation.

but anyway, the point abt property prices is that it creates a gap between what boss are willing to pay and what workers are willing to receive.

155 is right– that not all land is used up yet.
maybe he means why shld prices be high now.. can’t they be higher later?

so maybe we can delay the problem. but it does not mean we can avoid it.
we need some smart pple to come and resolve this.

I have great FT friends in my circle. However, I am against the high number and low standards of FWs + FTs admitted and retained here.
The problems started upstream from my view :

(a) Policy makers did a population control, without being able to anticipate the consequences (low population growth) ahead, and creating policies to regain replacement rates. Then without admitting it’s their fault, they came up with the lax FW and FT policies to cover up, only to create employment issues for locals.

(b) I cannot say that employment issues are solely due to FWs + FTs, but there was a stage when policy makers were finger pointing the bulk of the problem as choosy locals. This is what I call a half truth, especially if you have seen Singaporeans who are really not choosy and FWs/ FTs who can be many times more choosy than a local in substantial numbers. The fact is these policy makers have not created (or created an environment) with enough jobs to go around, and yet drawing high salaries. If they are really interested in the welfare of the people, stop using the sole indicator as GDP. Instead, replace by employment rate (those in SPUR counted as unemployed), and median salaries. Then supplement the storyline with similar data for the lowest 20% of the workers.

to RW :

The gap in question is created by the govt.

Since they are the largest employer in Singapore.

156) XiiAoGeNgEnX on August 28th, 2009 9.20 am
“The race to the bottom will be won by the FWs. Singaporeans should be racing to the top. That’s why SPUR and MOE are so important to our nation’s success.”

I think that as a nation we should take care of our less privileged or less educated; why should we allow so many FW to take over those jobs that can be done by Singaporeans? A sensible quota of Foreigners and Singaporeans should be enforced (this is not something new to Singapore but somehow that rule seemed to have disappeared in recent years).

As I see it, the SPUR program is implemented more to slow down the possible retrenchment of workers by reimbursing companies for their staffs’ time loss for training and highly subsidizing the training courses. Many of these courses are short courses that last a day or two. Another objective probably is for retraining as the jobs lost in certain sector will never come back to Singapore and the training is to prepare these workers to work in another sector where both their formal education and prior work experiences are irrelevant. Hence, I would see SPUR as a damage control program rather than attribute a nation’s success to it.

Yes our children’s education is key. However a frustrated mum wrote in one of the comments that she could not get her child into the PCF kindergarten as there are many foreign applicants before her. Hence I hope that since MOE is doing a job so important to our nation’s success implement policies that is fairer to the Singaporeans’ children.

147) XiiAoGeNgEnX

You believe that MOE and SPURS and education can save us

You are severely mistaken. Companies find it cheaper and more viable to hire FWs and provide in-house training. Since, their training is mostly relevant to that specific company, the turn-over rate is lesser and companies like that.

Despite their expenses in SG, they still live like Kings once they take the money and return to their kampungs.

I cannot understand your support for FWs and PRs.

165) FTs on August 28th, 2009 10.44 am
You are severely mistaken. Companies find it cheaper and more viable to hire FWs and provide in-house training. Since, their training is mostly relevant to that specific company, the turn-over rate is lesser and companies like that.

Like I said earlier, we can never hope to out-price the FWs. The race to the bottom of the price chart will be won by them. SPUR and MOE however, help us win the race to the TOP.

Like 164) SotongBall on August 28th, 2009 10.34 am mentioned earlier, SPUR is a damage control policy, and rightly so. The intention of SPUR isnt to create rocket scientists out of the uneducated sectors of our workforce. It simply moves them up to the next level.

Basically we’re giving unskilled people a very basic skill. And those with a basic skill an intermediate skill. We’re turning electricians into technicians, technicians into engineers, and engineers into inventors. A simplistic view, I’m sorry, but I’m sure no one wants to read a thesis on this.

MOE is definitely more vital. It ensures that the next generation gets a fresh fighting chance in the market. But education is not a problem that can be solved by simply throwing more money at it. Social mindsets must change.

I don’t think we can blame the lack of resources available at our schools, if our schools face a lack of learning from the students. How many times do our students skip classes, or fail to do their homework? The importance of education must be instilled in our children at an early age, and the onus of which falls mainly on the parents.

Dear SotongBall and all other types of Sotong products,

I hope that you are all not really that Sotong.

You think those money-minded government officals have no idea of what you are saying. You think that they have know not what to do.

Man … I feel sad for all of you. You still do not get it. You are trying to explain the content of the bible to SATAN.

Really. All these voicing of opinions, giving feedbacks, telling your suggestions, … It’s all to sidetrack you. What they want to know is how much crap you can take
before they say oh, maybe we the idiots have had enough. They are trying to test our limits. See how low we can go, and how much we can stretch.

Do you think LKY and LHL have no idea how frustrated we are with issues on the FTs, housing, CPF, medical, NS, and their unexposed corruptions? They are not idiots. It is the idiots among us who are still saying that they are doing a great job that is keeping them the way they are. Unquestionably stupid.

Tom, Dick, and Harry all know what the problems are. Even the taxi drivers can tell you how to solve it. But why has nothing being done?

The ultimate answer to that was clearly answered by Newton when he was scribbling his third law. No action, no reaction. Blowing hot air is useless. What this country needs is serious action. Even the most prosperous countries in the world still practices protests. Why? Because they listens and believes Newton.
So, clearly, we need more actions than talks. Cast the right vote and cross your fingers.

170) XiiAoGeNgEnX

Let’s take for instance the technical/scientific fields.

You have to understand. SG is not like the US. While they have plenty of research and development companies there, to require talent of the highest calibre, SG companies mostly require talent of the average sort.

Would companies hire an engineer with 1st class honours from NUS at $4k+ or a Malaysian engineer for $2,200?

You may go for your masters or PhD but do companies really require that??

Simply put, graduates are a dime a dozen these days. Education and training qualifies people for the job but does not give us an edge. It is up to the policy makers to ensure locals are not worser off than foreigners in the employment respect.

Can i say that the jobless have less to loose and should be seeked to help bring change? only if you know what i mean.

@156) XiiAoGeNgEnX on August 28th, 2009 9.20 am

Hi XiiAoGeNgEnX,

If your Co. is employing FWs (not FTs) you will understand. Generally, the company of employment provide transport & hostel & electricity/water, etc… to their FWs. So, such items are zero cut into their disposable income. Even, say, maids — they have zero transport and lodging. And these workers seem to be more prudent with their food, no doubt a reflection of their standard back home. The point is, a larger portion of their income CAN be SAVED (and exchange rated) but Singaporean just see money in, and money out fast, exchange rated at 1x.

Just work out your monthly expenses and see how much actually is used on “essentials” like house, food, electricity/candles, all types of fees, etc. More than 1K, surely, after CPF? If the garhem want to boost about how many home owners are in Singapore, then surely the ability to finance their houses must also be considered – hence min wage. (BTW, a roof over one’s head is considered an essential in most countries, not a luxury or privilege.)

Of course the standards of the hostel conditions for FWs, etc.. is another thing for discussion. They don’t pay for lodging so are at mercy of the employers. Have you seen their bathing facilities, etc..? Pls mingle with these people to understand situation better. Hope U can prove me wrong!

Hi modern malay pahlawan,

I think a lot of us are falling into the trap of thinking that Singaporeans are an apathetic lot with loads of complaints, and that we are not politically mature enough to bring about change to an environment that is stifling and killing them. This is furthest from the truth.

Singaporeans have been trying to bring about change – the legal way – by using their power to vote. The ever-increasing percentage of voter support for the opposition parties is testament to this. We may be moving at snail’s pace but we certainly are not doing nothing. The common refrain that accuses the Singapore citizen for being a politics-dummy must cease.

The problem why we are still so trapped in our present state of being has all to do with a corrupt regime that uses whatever means at its disposal, to entrench itself in power – the GRC scheme, the NMP and NCMP schemes, the monopoly of the MSM, the ISA, the bulldozing power to bulldoze everything into submission – are some of the more well-known ones.

So, let’s be kinder to our fellow Singaporeans and realize that many are trying to bring about change to a leadership that has gone awfully wrong and terribly bad. We have enough from this government to fight against, let’s not fight among ourselves by accusing each other for not doing enough. I believe we are doing all we can – within our capacity to do so.

Pray, how are we going to retrain our elderly who are washing toilets to the TOP? Can they be a toilet “director” or what?

Age aside, assuming a local electrician who faces tough competition from foreign electricians, goes for training and is promoted to a technician. Well, well, guess what, he still faces the same predicament – competition from foreign technicians. Is he supposed to keep going for re-training to engineers etc, short of the level of a rocket scientist?

It doesn’t matter what level you’re in now, or the level you ASPIRE to be in, so long as the government keeps letting in foreigners and PRs at ALL LEVELS.

Imagine a tsunami wave coming onto our shores, and you’re like a small fry meeting that head-on. You’ll either be drowned, training or no training.

#136,
“”- Are singaporean willing to accept a lower pay?
. the low pay must be self sustainable with enough to support 2 aging parents. low enough?”"

I just testify with my personal experience.

1. I used to earn $7500 basic salary with cpf. I used to work 5 days 9 to 5:30.
2. Due to lack of jobs created, i now cannot find the job that i used to do. I now earn $1200 basic and 9 hour days , 6 days a week, off day is only on 1 weekday. The best part if EVERY HOLIDAY is working day as this is the best sales day of all for my boss. Every weekend and holiday work , i am earning the same per day rate as when i work during weekdays.

I have a house a car bought when i was enjoying good pay. Monthly expenses is higher than may basic pay can afford. I still have to pay and pay that CPF. This simply means lower nett income. I am nearing 40 and with this crisis i have no financial means to even think about marriage.

This salary is of course not enough. Each month I still need to withdraw money from the bank to cover expenses. But even so, i still take up such jobs. I am a singaporean. Here I testify. I am the evidence.

@158) NotQuiteSo on August 28th, 2009 9.23 am

“….And no. Singapore has no corruption…”

Yes, such a brilliant idea of paying ministers Millions$ so they have no inclination to be corrupt. Wonder why no countries are rushing to embrace this principle. The world is sooooo stupid.

164) RW on August 28th, 2009 10.07 am >> #157

“Who benefits when property prices are up?”

The people who bought houses/HDBs in 1970, 1980s. Within one generation, HDB flats that cost 50,000 to buy became $200,000. Most people that generation suddenly have their assets gone up

You have no idea what you are talking about right? Yes, the house that you are living in your tiny HDB increases to a million bucks. So what? You sell it and live in the street?

People who really profits from property inflations are those holding free holds and have more than one property in their names other than the one that they are staying. Stupid.

@166) kf on August 28th, 2009 10.20 am

“….If they are really interested in the welfare of the people, stop using the sole indicator as GDP. Instead, replace by employment rate (those in SPUR counted as unemployed), and median salaries. Then supplement the storyline with similar data for the lowest 20% of the workers….”

And, dear kf, how do you propose for the MPs then to justify paying themselves millions bucks salaries?

171) UselessReasoning on August 28th, 2009 11.01 am

No arguments with what you said, and well said!

@ 177) No Hope on August 28th, 2009 11.26 am

I can give testimony to another real life case to add to yours.

I interviewed an above 50-year old applicant about two months ago. He was a Merrill Lynch employee until the recent economic crisis saw him being off-loaded. He had been with the company for the past twenty years and was earning $4500 a month until that fateful day of his retrenchment.

During the interview, he described his new expectations – coming to terms with his O level qualification and the new working climate he was coming into. He was honest enough to be content with a new starting salary of not more than $1200.

It did not end there.

The job he was applying for has other requirements. He is to work normal 8 hour shifts on weekdays and 12 hour shifts on weekends, public holidays included. It is also a 24/7 job. He has to be physically fit because the job requires some physical effort to do – very different from the desk-bound Merrill Lynch job he used to do.

In fact, the last point was my main concern, whether he would be able to move from a mundane and routine desk-bound job to one that is fast-pace and requires physical strength and stamina. He assured me that he had been keeping himself fit by doing 4km runs throughout the four months that he was out of job.

He has been working with me for the past month already. There are other similar stories to tell but I thought this is one that impacted me most. This is the reality.

Gemami,

post #153 on August 28th, 2009 8.53 am

very well put across. thumbs up!!

@182 gemami 28th august 12.47pm….thank god we still have compassionate people like u to give another fellow countryman another chance…most employers would just turn that chap away…i know cos i too know of a person, a lady this time…she lost her job at age 48, when she was on maternity leave, she received a txt msg that her service was no longer required. she later found out from her ex colleagues a FT had taken over when she was on maternity leave! this FT was from UK. and the very upsetting thing was this FT was in another employment, she left that employment and was living with her other FT friends here, on her long term visa issued to her by our ica, which enable her to look for another job..she got one, and now one of us is jobless cos of that! stupid policy, isn’t it? allowing a FT to stay here for long period to look for another job when we have so many of our own losing theirs.
where is the fairness in this?
good on u, gemami to give one of us another chance!

@ 171) UselessReasoning

I am not one who is easily taken in by suggestions of a violent course of action to resolve issues. In fact, I have always asked for moderation and a peaceful resolve so that no one gets hurt.

However, after reading your post @ #171, I cannot help but agree with you that reasoning has now become useless. Useless reasoning has gotten us nowhere except being made a bigger fool.

You’re absolutely right that even the less-brainy knows exactly what’s wrong with our country. How then can the so-called brainy ones not know? Answers are aplenty but so too are the questions put forth that question these answers – to confuse us into believing that our solutions are problems instead.

This is the problem with Singapore. The ones leading the country think themselves smart – so smart that they cannot listen to the ‘dumb’ ones and the solutions they propose – less they too be considered dumb because they did not think of the solution first, with all the ‘intelligence’ they possess.

We might have to seriously consider Newton’s third law, really. We have to. We have no other choice. Most certainly, no more useless reasoning.

hi No Hope,

post #177 on August 28th, 2009 11.26 am

sorry to hear about your plight. i am about 30 now & jobless for a year. now undergoing RT & soon my annual ICT, i am seriously quite pissed that national survival is a direct threat to my very own survival.

do you remember not many years back workers were paid double for working on public holidays?

it’s sad how some people who do not live a tough life talk down on others who do… :(

singapore ladies and gentlemen,

hear this out!

my daughter recently went for interview with Waterhub, subsidy of PUB for research technician. she was interviewed by 2 manager who are of china origin PRs(i supposed).

among other things being discussed, they specifically directing the issue to my daughter this : ‘we pay way below your previous salary, will you still be interested?’

where on earth is this f**king system that country allows FTs to control and have their say and way of dealing with native of the country. this is f**king stupid system being ruled too long by those highly idiots elites in the gahmen.

Hi XiiAoGeNgEnX,

“I don’t think we can blame the lack of resources available at our schools, if our schools face a lack of learning from the students. How many times do our students skip classes, or fail to do their homework? The importance of education must be instilled in our children at an early age, and the onus of which falls mainly on the parents.”

Don’t mind me, but I think your reasoning is flaw, blaming it on the students…it takes 2 hands to clap…while the students may do those things as you mentioned, but what does our education system teaches the student? perhaps turning them into droids that focus on those few subjects and it is just recursive learning….the result…well, just look at the top and you will know…

@ 183) mice is nice

Thanks – I like your tamiflu comment too – really hits the spot real good ;)

Just for thinking out loud, I am thinking of setting up a blogsite titled: ‘ SIN Sharing’. Many Singaporeans have stories to tell and this blogsite can provide the platform for real-life story telling and sharing.

Hi Mike,

I think I understand your distress. Allow me to relate another recent story.

Just last week, I met up with one of our service provider to discuss some service expansion. We have been buying services from this vendor since we outsourced some of our jobs to them. To cut cost, they have been employing foreigners, mostly Malaysians and Filipinas at a fraction of the current wage rate of Singaporeans in similar employ.

For this expansion, we require better educated staff, so we decided to demand that the hired staff must have at least an N or O level education. The immediate response to this was that they would have a hard time sourcing for foreign labour with such qualification expectations. I was quite pissed really. I told them to go look for Singaporeans then. Surely there are plenty out there looking for employment. Fortunately they agreed.

Guess what? The manager and his assistant with whom we had the meeting with was a Malaysian and a Filipina.

#190,
Let me share what happened to me back in 1992. I had to go for 3 weeks ICT, coupled with 24 days leave which I had to clear, my 2 immediate superiors, both PRs decided that my work performance was below par. Being in sales job, your performance dips when you are not around. So when I asked to be appraised on a 11 month average, I was told off and it was TOO BAD I had to go for such a long ICT. Mind you, this was back 17 yrs ago and I think it is worst now with 1/3 of population fill with foreigners. What level playing field are we talking about?

Looks like the greatest threat to Singapore now is the visible fault line between FT and native Singaporean( all races combined) and not between Singaporean Malays, Singaporean Indians, Singaaporean Others and Singapore Chinese as feared by PM Lee. PM Lee is just trying to distract Singaporeans from the serious and urgent issue of current recession and dissatisfactions with FT colonisation of our rich and beautiful island.

Thank LKY’ son and the PAP lah….for such fine tuned policies.

It is indeed tragic to hear many of such stories where Singaporeans can’t even make a decent living in their own country while FTs are happily making money in S$ and saving them up for retirement back in their own home countries. The other thing is that I’ve noticed FTs are slowly making their ways into management positions in companies here. This certainly has a profound consequence esp given that we do not have a quota limit on hiring of the white-collar FTs.

PAP is not going to change its policy from the way things go. LHL didn’t even bother to address this issue in the recent National Day Rally. Instead, he talked about racial harmony which I suspect is not really an issue for most Singaporeans.

I agree. The way forward would be to vote against PAP. The million dollar question here is, can we do it given the track record of past PAP elections?

Year PAP Votes Walkover Actual Voters
Percent Percent
1980 77.7% 47% 51%
1984 64.8% 37% 60%
1988 63.2% 13% 82%
1991 61.0% 50% 48%
1997 65.0% 59% 39%
2001 75.3% 67% 31%
2006 66.6% 43% 53%

The roman empire & the Ming Dynasty went the way of the dodo due to the following:

For the Roman empire, only roman citizens are allow to serve in the roman army / military. Guess what…they allow “foreigners” into their armed forces…these “foreigners” after gaining much in terms of knowledged and skills use in later against the roman empire. One of the primary causes in the fall of the roman empire.

For the Ming Dynasty, kinda of different…they are so focused on the arts, poetry, politics, intelligence via imperial examinations to get the most intelligent etc etc all about me stuff…when the babarians came through the great wall of china in a hurry…most of the the Ming generals and politicians were useless as they only know all kind of arts/poetry/play politics except how to use actual military art to stop the invasion. Another cause in the fall of the Ming Dynasty.

It is a double edge sword singapore is leveraging on FT/FW…especially if the policy owners who set this policy did not built a fail safe or audit into this FT/FW must get policy.

Have you asked why Singaporeans cannot make a living on their own? the playing field has always been level. it is your god-damm mindset that is not level.

inferior complex maybe?

come out of your shell and work. don’t be picky about the job. singaporeans want air con, high pay, convenient location workplace. then i’m sorry but to say “wait long long”.

you don’t change your attitude and soon your rice bowl will shift to another person’s hands.

no one is indispensable. if you don’t keep yourself relevant, don’t get in the way of progress. STEP ASIDE!

95 FM now broadcasting … time to hear only the good stuff ….. and 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 …ON AIR….

“no one is indispensable.”

same goes for the ruling “elites”… ;)

196) What is there to oppose

aiyah, show some respect lah. read thru previous comments first before coming in here to sprout nonsense…

196) What is there to oppose on August 28th, 2009 4.19 pm

The playing field has never been level. Males here have to serve NS and the opportunity cost for us is 2 years of our economic lives. And after that its another 10 bloody years of reservist to disrupt our working lives. Do the FTs need to waste 2 years of their lives as well as go for bloody reservist for another 10 years?

However I do agree with you that no one is indispensable…..especially so for our dear elites with the way their policies have screwed us. It’s high time we bring them down from their ivory towers and show them who’s the boss in this country.

As sure as the Sun will rise from the East, the PAP will get a clean sweep in the next Erection. Because we Singaporeans are cheap, naive, unthinking and dont deserve any respect from the PAP.

Fat Hope,

“As sure as the Sun will rise from the East, the PAP will get a clean sweep in the next Erection.”

everyday i have lunch, but i don’t have the same dish i had yesterday…

clean sweep? they can choose where they want to sweep, of course win lah. people with all the say & very high pay have the odds on their side.

“

196) What is there to oppose

We can all argue until the cow comes home about why FWs are allowed in on masse but we will still get nowhere if there is no trustable souce of statistics.

Until now, we are none the wiser if your claims are true that MAJORITY of Sporeans are “picky about the job, Sporeans want air con, high pay, convenient location workplace.” There will be some, like in every society there will be a minority of ‘parasites’ but whether what you claim Sporeans to be is a majority, thats the general Sporean attitude, we do not know unless some sort of survey is done.

What I find interesting is that if a Sporean is picky and does not want to work, what does s/he live on? As we all know, everything needs money in Spore and we do no have unemployment benefit. How will such a person live? Who sponsors them? So is it true that these people are a plenty in our society? Where do they get the money if they refuse to work?

maybe the picky 1s are those enjoying their million dollar salaries in cool aircon comfort, are picky themselves & so afraid to change jobs? :P

Hi XiiAoGeNgEnX

What do you base on to claim that Spore has world class education? Is it based on student results or based on industrial & scientific achievements, that is what students can do or contribute in industries? Commonsense tells us that both are related, that if student results are good, they should do well in industries, but is this the case in Spore?

You can keep kidding yourself that we have a world class education, but do you wonder why then do we still need to heavily rely on foreign talents? Isn’t it contradictory?

Before you go shifting responsibility entirely on parents, please know that majority of parents (both mums & dads) in Spore have to work fulltime (maybe longer than fulltime, some have 2 or 3 jobs or have to attend night classes). Please also know that world class education is not one with plenty of homework. In fact the tons of homework will kill the children’s interest and desire for knowledge. The tons of homework also robs children of sleep and playtime, both essential for mental & social development.

With regards to resources, you are also wrong to say that there is no lack in it. Do you have any idea how expensive books are in Spore? Parents who can access good books for their children are more likely to give their children a head start. What about arts & craft materials, musical instruments and educational toys, all of which help towards mental stimulation? All these are unaffordable to alot of children.

Hmmmm,

Why cant the Goverment give tax rebate to the corporation and company for hiring Singaporeans. Perhaps that might level the playing field?
Since billions of dollars lost in western stock market is not a big deal to our goverment , for the above the amount would be peanuts too?

Just a thought.

to agent008, for your information, most of the job taken by FT is in aircon, high pay, convenient location workplace.

hopeless @ 207

My post @203 refers to FWs – Foreign Workers, not Talents. They always say that nobody wants to work as cleaners or retail service staff. Nobody can verify how many except to cite what friends say, or friends of friends or cousins of cousins….. All guess work by grassroots?

Foreign Talent is another hot potato that need addressing because our own local grads are out of jobs and also we are bleeding our own few talents that we got all because this stubborn govt refuses to look into why or what is the problem. However again, I am guessing here because how many grads are out of jobs or how many post grad professionals are leaving each year on year, we do not know.

The problem with Spore is we do not have independent pressure groups or lobbyists to collect figures. Either this ruling party has alot to hide or simply can’t be bothered, we do not know too!

196) What is there to oppose on August 28th, 2009 4.19 pm
Have you asked why Singaporeans cannot make a living on their own? the playing field has always been level. it is your god-damm mindset that is not level.

So, Mister, are you saying it is entirely the fault of the weak that they are born naturally to be less competitive and therefore to step aside?

If it is, I think that you should seriously reflect on your mindset and behave more like a fellow being when making a comment here.

Obviously, your attitude has revealed you as a thoughtless male PRICK that still have no offspring. So, you better pray hard that the sons that you conceive will be equally bright, brilliant, and behaves as a prick like you. Good luck.

NS for ALL or NS for NONE

The only thing I disagree with Mr Leong is that he have not run for any election all these years.

A loss to the people.

NS for ALL? YOU GOTTA BE KIDDING! There are white horse, silver horses with special privileges and special allocations of vocations in NS and invisible horses whose medical conditions were paid a large sum to exist on paper. Rich, powerful and influential boys either enjoy good life as clerks in non-combat units, prestige as officers in non-combat units, or don’t even need to serve NS. Get a gripe on reality dude.

180) theforgottongeneration on August 28th, 2009 11.34 am,

I cannot be sure I understand your question. MPs in general don’t earn million bucks per year from civil service (Do you have someone in mind ?). It’s the cabinet ministers and above who do. If you are talking about cabinet ministers, the first thing is for them to declare what performance indicators are on their plate. If they cannot even answer this question, there is no reason for us to assume this person has a critical role. In descriptive terms, if this role didn’t exist, what do we as citizens lose out on. The next few layers of questioning are very complex, and are highly dependent on their answers.

In the US of A, citizenship can be had by applying as a member of the Armed Forces. See this -> http://usmilitary.about.com/od/theorderlyroom/a/citizenship.htm

“” If you are a member of the U.S. Armed Forces and are interested in becoming a U.S. citizen, you may be eligible to apply for citizenship under special provisions provided for in the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA). “”

Even Non-USA citizens can serve USA ?
I think this is a great way to inculcate loyalty to the country and also a way for new immigrants to show they are serious to become part of the family.

If only singapore learns from the USA if not imitate how they get things done.

Maybe good for singapore.

peace

Didn’t expect so many responsed to my post.

The questions that i posted are just a few that came to my mind during that time, and frankly speaking i don’t have a standard answer to them ( though some have provided ans).

Added lists

- Virtually all nurses are FWs
- Maids
- All KTV hostess and singers are “foreign talents”
- All massage masseuses are FWs
- Geylang hookers are ALL FWs

- News broadcaster are FWs
- Bus drivers gradually replaced by chinese

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I used to work in a place where i am the only singaporean. Trust me, no joke, not a pleasant environment to be in. Malaysian will always proclaimed ” sprean are proud”, chinese dun mixed with u local. Can’t understand indians as they have funny accent. Can’t understand vietnamese as they seems to be mummuring all the times. Ang Mo high pos, dun mixed with u small fry.

BUT, no matter how much i hated them. I realised that they are here to stay. Even the opposition take over ( but hor, dun know which donkey year lah), no easy task to tackle.

Level playing field ?? hmm, rather than betting on this very slim hope, best to equip ourself with the relevant skillset. Know ur own stuff.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The other thing abt employers lah. I think employers in the singapore only have the “$$$$” in mind. They very cheapskate lah. In certain industries, they get a certain amt of cash for hiring FWs ( known secret ) from agent. Also, good to control and exploit the FWs as they are holdingon to their passports.

One of my relatives onli hired malaysians. Some of my ex-company group leaders only hired their countryman. No one seems to like sporean. haha.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Another thing also very important lah. Sporean consumers very “niao”, want cheap, want green want big neh neh. Where got such thing in this world?

If the consumer don’t want to pay more, of course the employers don’t want to pay more to hire. Then we get the result that, the low income workers getting less and less, especially in the sector of cleaners.

>>>>>>>>>>
Again, just my 2cts worth of thoughts.

Ahgong,

“Level playing field ?? hmm, rather than betting on this very slim hope, best to equip ourself with the relevant skillset. Know ur own stuff.”

at work knowing your stuff can only get you that far. when the human factor come into play, it takes 2 hands to clap.

“One of my relatives onli hired malaysians. Some of my ex-company group leaders only hired their countryman. No one seems to like sporean. haha.”

this type of reply full of scorn.

“If the consumer don’t want to pay more, of course the employers don’t want to pay more to hire.”

even if consumers pay more, employers may pay a higher salary to employees. its common knowledge that in F&B outlets, the “service charge” of 10% does not go to the service staff.

my $0.02 worth of thoughts on your $0.02 worth of thoughts. :)

from my reply above

even if consumers pay more, employers may NOT pay a higher salary to employees. its common knowledge that in F&B outlets, the “service charge” of 10% does not go to the service staff.

135) Vomit Blood
/////////- Almost 100% of the hdb rubbish collector/cleaner are indians FW///////
i suspect some are bangladeshis. I could not tell the diff also.////////

They are mostly Bangladeshis.

136) mice is nice
- Are employers willing to pay more to hire local?
. rent is a big component to business.

137) Yamamoto

Woa, comparing to the escalating rental cost, the cost of hiring is according to mrs goh, peanuts…
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////

The cost component of rent vs staffing cost varies in different types of business. The labour intensive businesses are (not exhaustive) F&B, hotels, cleaning, construction, shipyards. For these industries, the rental component is far less than staff cost. For example, a Town Council cleaning contractor do not need to have an expensive retail/ office space to run the biz, most of his cost are made up of cleaners.

155) wow

//////Land is scarce in this country.
No. Land is not scarce in Singapore.
Just look around you and all the mindef training ground and you have an idea.//////

MINDEF has been freeing up its land for civilian use over the years, consolidating its old camps into Camp Complexes that that up only a fraction of the old Camps left behind by the Brits.
oneNorth is one example,

Land, sea, air training are being conducted overseas because we just do not have the land to do such things, and partly no thanks to our “friendly” neighbours across the causeway.

156) XiiAoGeNgEnX
////////The difference is that they come from a much poorer background than any Singaporean can imagine, so they’re willing to accept a far lower standard of living. Can we then fault them for being more frugal than us?
The race to the bottom will be won by the FWs. Singaporeans should be racing to the top. ////////////.

I like what you wrote.
If I may, I distilled from what you wrote to 2 key word/phrases
1 “frugal”
2 “race to the bottom”

Frugal is what Singaporeans are not.
The ones who lost the race, and will continue to lose the race, to the FW are those who participated in the race to the bottom.

Posted by one of the forumers on 3in1kopitiam:

http://forums.delphiforums.com/3in1kopitiam/messages?msg=20003.1

Today, I met up with one of my old buddies and had kopi with him. He a Chinese converted to a Muslim as he married a Malay lady. We were chatting and started to talk about the foreign trash in SG. We all knew about the problem and I told him frankly that I think that the FTs shit deal has the biggest impact on the local Malay community.

He told me yes, he said that many Malays are very frustrated with the situation. He cited one example was his brother in law. He is Malay and was working as a restaurant manager and earns about basic $1800/ mth excluding OT and tips. He lost his job last year because he was replaced by a cheaper foreign trash. Now his brother in law then have trouble getting a new job because many restaurants are hiring foreign trash with lower wages. Sadly, now he part times drives taxi and do odd jobs to feed his family. He said that the local Malays are less vocal but are equally frustrated as the rest of Singapore.

But my friend told me his biggest concern, which really startled. This situation will give JI and those radical Muslim groups a health recruitment environment. He feel that many Malays are being marginalized by cheaper foreign trash and have problem getting jobs that once were theirs and were happy with those jobs.

Our farking short sighted government is unwittingly endangered our national security for short-term economic gain. Previously, I am frustrated with this foreign trash deal but now I am frustrated and afraid.

Am I overly concern?

222) kojakbt

///But my friend told me his biggest concern, which really startled. This situation will give JI and those radical Muslim groups a health recruitment environment. ////

I thniking using JI as a treat is not addressing the issue nor not helping the situation.
Are the other races to organise similar terrorist groups to justify being employed?

[...] Singaporeans urged to ‘embrace’ foreigners – Today In Singapore: Embracing Foreigners – TOC: Level the playing field for locals and foreigners in employment – The Lycan Times: Commentary – Sweta Agarwal – Singapore Life and Times: Rain or shine – TOC: [...]

@213) kf on August 28th, 2009 11.34 pm

Kf, pls don’t take my sarcasm wrongly. Whether cabinet or parliament ministers, the sentiment is that they are enriching themselves with high pays while the man-on-the-street struggles with bread-&-butter issues.

Not sure what performance indicators you are looking for from them. Previously I highlighted that for past decade or so, the growth of our GDP is predominantly due to injection of LABOUR rather than capital. This kinda coincident with the influx of FT/FWs that we are discussing herein. Traditionally, the injection of capital is mainly from FDI but for past 10+ years, that is declining due to China. Hence the “easy way” is to switch to labour injection.

Still on GDP growth (seemingly the only index for our leaders), of course capital injection could be local/domestic if FDI has decreased. See my post #131 above, points 2 & 3. Why your referred “policy makers” didn’t create the local “growth” environment by pumping money into start-ups, SMEs, etc? Cos this path requires billions if we are talking new industries, new tech, new opportunities/risks. Now, question is where did our billions go? Tied up somewhere, waiting for the upturn? Or saving for a more severe rainy day? Programs like SPUR is just a run to the bottom as someone has mentioned herein. Ask how much is SPUR costing compared with the loss incurred by TH, and presumably GIC? Peanuts?

The run to the bottom (with the FWs) however, have affects our productivity index. Now productivity has 2 components — the output (results) or the input (cost). To boost productivity quick, you can increase one or decrease the other. SPUR and e2i schemes are targeting at PMETs, offering them starting pay of 1200-1600. Are you in the picture still? What additional layers of questioning and answers are you looking for?

156) XiiAoGeNgEnX

Allow me to share a little more of my thoughts regarding the “race to the bottom”

Transport Industry:
This labour intensive industry has over the years used automation to reduce reliance on manpower. Automation has made bus conductors redundant, and thus reduce its manpower needs by half. Each driverless trains carries the equivalent of 20 buses. It is the long term plan to have all trains driverless. And as the rail network expands, the reduced number of buses will correspondingly reduce the number of bus drivers needed.

Cleaning Industry:
HDB has introduced centralised refuse chutes whereby refuse trucks can directly access the trash compactors. This eliminated the need for an army of cleaners to bring the individual trash bins to the bin compound, and eliminated the need for bin compounds.
The way forward is pneumatic waste dispoasal system whereby the waste from the base of the flats are vacumm sucked into underground localised waste incinerators, further reducing the need for the army of rubiish trucks, and truck drivers.

Textile Industry:
This industry has but totally disappeared in Singapore.
Being massively labour intensive, the biz owners have uprooted their garment manufacturing factories to other land with low cost labour.

Sewerage Workers:
This is an non existence industry today which existed up to the early 70s.
The automattd network of sewers has eliminated the need for anybody to do this not too plaesant job of carrying nightsoil.

Telecom Industry:
Telephone exchanges are now eerily quiet places where automated switchboards works 24/7 with no human working inside them for most of the time.
Even you regular telephone operator in the offices no longer exist now with new phone systems that are doing their work.

One would be wise not to choose to race to the bottom with FW in these industries.

”a key challenge is to integrate new citizens and PR into our society”
All should do NS—army camps are great places to bond.
Live together–die together
Otherwise; wait a million years
TRUE Blue are no longer stupid.

@225) kojakbt on August 29th, 2009 12.16 pm

Thks kojakbt for the update — didn’t even open my papers yet!

Firstly, how odd the foreigner policies get answered by NPS! Didn’t know they are the ones interviewing, approving, selecting, talent-hunting, setting limits, integrating, etc… on foreigners.

This official reply read like a secondary student’s essay on the subject — just regurgitating official garbage. It is definitely at odds on emphasis when compared to the PM’s national day rally. Either Ms Quah is talking nonsense or her points are actually low on the government agenda.

————-
“….Our total fertility rate of 1.28 is one of the lowest in the world. The Government will continue to support marriage and parenthood ….”

Of course! Which government will declare that it will NOT continue to support marriage and parenthood? The point is Singapore’s TFR didn’t get to 1.28 overnight. It went thru 1.9, 1.8, 1.7, 1.5 in the 1970s to 2000s. If the govt really support pro-family policies, the problem would have been addressed when the TFR was 1.6-1.5. Tell us, which minister(s) was specifically in charge of looking into this issue over past 10-20 years? In the private sector, if a manager can’t address a declining sales or growth of the company, how long would that manager last? 1-2 years tops?

————-
“…Our ageing population will increase the burden on future generations….”

Our policy makers must be idiots if they didn’t know this basic rule of demography when they implement the Stop-at-2 policy. Assuming Singaporeans were “obedient” and our TFR had hit 2.1 consistently. The population would still aged maintaining at the previous targeted population of 3+ millions; this aging just accelerated when the TFR falls below 2.1. So this statement is about 30 years out of date. Way to go Director Quah!

————-
“…Closing our doors and refusing entry to newcomers will not reserve jobs for citizens. On the contrary, investments and job creation will shrink….”

What is not highlighted is that a country growth can be from external inflow or growth of home-grown industries/markets. We had long tie job creation to foreign MNCs; we should ask why tens of billions are not injected by the govt to up-start new industries, new business, new opportunities LOCALLY. We don’t have natural resources (except the people), so why didn’t we invest heavily in R&D on free resources like solar power? Nobody owns the sun and with a solar industry, we could have develop an energy resource of our own, being less reliance on fuel imports.

————-
“…Our ability to defend ourselves will be compromised. …”

Absolutely NONSENSE, unless the “new-comers” are immediately enlisted into NS and do subsequent reservist. Our available manpower for NS has declined quite drastically over the years and has not been made good with the new-comers. It takes at least 18 years for a new-comer’s son to be eligible to contribute to our defense, by which time that new-comer would have balak kampong to another country, with his 18-year son in tow, no doubt. This only shows that anyone who didn’t serve in NS should just shut up and sit down!

————-
I like to discontinue for the moment to see if I am been moderated AGAIN…(4th time?)

we the ordinary houswives are very tired of the gahmen trying, yet again, to convince us why we need foreign talents, and telling us we must open our arms to welcome, so we could all build a nation together…we know of several hong kong PRs after gaining working experiences here, decided to migrate to the usa, so that their sons would avoid ns, the same goes for an india indian family..sent the son to the usa for the same reason..whereas our local sons, born n bred here in this country which they used to call home but not so sure anymore, have to do their duties to protect and serve this nation that is fast becoming more foreign to them.
so, ms quah, is this what u called building a nation together?

# 90 Jezebella /// The problem is with the policy, not the foreigners. We must recognise what truly is causing problems for us, and point the finger at the right place ///

This is absolutely the truth. I totally agree with your highly compassionate and noble stand.
The PAPies’ policies are the cause of all the sufferings that the locals are encountering.
It’s not the fault of the foreigners, if the PAPies want to bring another million foreigners here. They will come because the bloody PAPies are alllowing them in.
Like Jezebella says, we must “point the finger at the right place” i.e at the lowdown PAPies, and not the foreigners.

Following is my point-by-point rebuttal to Ms Quah’s letter to ST forum:

>> “As Ms Henson acknowledged, Singapore faces a serious population challenge. Our total fertility rate of 1.28 is one of the lowest in the world. The Government will continue to support marriage and parenthood but, realistically, we will still face population and manpower shortfalls.”

Just because one is hungry, would one go to the extreme and gorge on tree barks and polluted water which would kill oneself eventually?

————————————————————–

>> “Our ageing population will increase the burden on future generations. We, therefore, need to attract talent and immigrants, like what many other countries are doing.”

Do you call a PRC beer girl flaunting herself with the old uncles at the kopitiam a talent?
Do you call a PRC bus driver who can’t speak a word of English a talent?
Do you call an Indian programmer who can’t code a program properly a talent?
Do you call a Myanmese sales girl selling cakes in a shop a talent?
Etc.

————————————————————–

>> “Closing our doors and refusing entry to newcomers will not reserve jobs for citizens. On the contrary, investments and job creation will shrink. Essential services like health care, education and transportation will be badly affected. Our ability to defend ourselves will be compromised. This will not benefit Singaporeans at all.”

On the other hand, wanton recruitement of foreigners into Singapore without regard to quality of the foreigners is slowly destroying the fragile fabric of our society!

In fact, if the Govt wants even cheaper foreign “talents” to help draw in investments, why not go recruit African refugees from those refugee camps into Singapore? They do not need salaries. They will already be very happy to find work and are more than willing to work just for food, clean water and a clean sheet everyday!

Imagine 2 million Africans working in Singapore…

————————————————————–

>> “The Government is mindful of the concerns of Singaporeans over foreigners and new immigrants. We have been calibrating the inflows, and adjusting our policies to best meet Singapore’s needs, while maintaining our identity and social fabric.”

Calibrating inflows? By allowing substantial foreigners to come into Singapore for the last 2 years?
See graph: http://i42.tinypic.com/2ecql4j.jpg

Maintaining social fabric? Whole bunch of PRCs coming into Singapore who can’t speak a word of English and happily anchor themselves in the new Chinatown enclave – Geylang!

Who is the Govt trying to kid?

————————————————————–

>> “We are not flooding the country with new immigrants. Indeed, 70 per cent of the foreigners here are transient workers and only 30 per cent are permanent residents (PRs).”

Whether they are called transient workers, PRs or whatever, they are here on Singapore soil competing with genuine true blue Singaporeans on jobs and helping to depress the salaries for everyone here. What is considered low salary for Singaporeans is not low for foreigners cause they would always use their 3rd world countries’ earnings as reference.

And to make things worse, many white-collar FTs are getting into positions which allow them to decide and hire workers. Naturally, they will tend to hire their own kind. Note that there is no foreign quota for most white-collar jobs (ie, salary > $2500). Technically speaking, a foreign investor can set up a company here hiring 100% foreigners with zero Singaporeans. What’s the point of getting this kind of foreign investment? Just to make EDB look good?

————————————————————–

>> “A key challenge is to integrate new citizens and PRs into our society. This will take time and effort on both sides. Our forefathers did not feel Singaporean when they first arrived here. But progressively, they and their children sank roots here, adjusted to one another, and developed a shared Singaporean identity and values. So in time should this new generation of newcomers and their children. The National Integration Council will foster this process.”

I would like to ask the Govt – how many PRs are actually sinking their roots here? From the way I see, many are here to make money in S$ and getting ready to retire back home as millionaires in their own home countries! This is completely different from the time of our forefathers when travelling was very much limited. It is extremely naive to think that children of PRs will sink roots here. If I’m not mistaken, Wong Kan Seng once told parliament that every year, only few hundred PRs would do NS. This is a drop in the ocean if you compare it with the tens of thousands of people getting PRs every year!

————————————————————–

>> “Our citizens’ interests will always be the priority of the Government. The Minister Mentor had reiterated this in his speech at the Tanjong Pagar National Day Celebration Dinner on Aug 13. Citizens enjoy greater subsidies in HDB housing, health care and education, as well as grants under the marriage and parenthood packages and surplus sharing schemes. But the way to ensure a bright future for our children, and for Singapore, is to remain open to new arrivals, and come together to build our nation.”

Luckily I did a study on the said benefits of the so-called “generous” subsidies given to Singaporeans over PRs. The marginally better benefits given to Singaporeans are laughable. In fact, I think it’s an insult to all Singaporeans considering the fact that we need to do NS to protect this country:

http://0000pcj.people.delphiforums.com/downloads/Benefits_of_Singaporean_vs_PR1.htm

————————————————————–

>> Quah Ley Hoon (Ms), Director, National Population Secretariat

Ms Quah, I look forward to one day when you might be replaced by an FT yourself. Let’s see what you would say then…

221) KopitiamApek on August 29th, 2009 10.55 am

hmm….well said.

we agree

Dear hwife@yahoo.com, your comment above truly resonant with me. I packed up and left soon after NS and had been in UK ever since. I gained by degrees and MSc through part time work to support myself through education. There are many educational opportunities in Europe. If one is prepared to work hard, there is a way forward to better oneself. Education is cheap here if one know how to search for it. There are many scolarships, bursaries, grants etc to help students, both local and foreign. Gaining a job here is not as hard as one imagined. I had no problem getting one as the employer was prepared to apply work permit on my behalf. I am willing to assist and advise anybody from Singapore who are prepared to seek a way forward through education. God Bless.

George Lee

I like to continue my rebuke of Ms Quah’s article on the inflow of FT/FWs. Hien TOC kind enough not to moderated me yet but unfortunately kojakbt’s posting at original #225 has been removed. Anyway my views should be taken as in addition to kojakbt’s pt-to-pt above.

—————
“…..The Government is mindful of the concerns of Singaporeans over foreigners and new immigrants….”

Sure, so concerned that the PM didn’t even bother to mention it ONCE in his ND speeches. In fact, this appears to be the first official view on the subject — from a god-knows who that is not even an MP.

—————
“….We have been calibrating the inflows, and adjusting our policies to best meet Singapore’s needs, while maintaining our identity and social fabric…..”

Really? What does calibrating means? Monitoring or collecting data and then sit on it? I remember GCT, during his term as PM, was asked about the influx of foreigners THEN. His reply was that he, or nobody knows the best ratio of Singaporeans to foreigners, so he was not able to answer the concern then. More than 10 years have past, and we are still “calibrating”?

—————
“…..We are not flooding the country with new immigrants. Indeed, 70 per cent of the foreigners here are transient workers and only 30 per cent are permanent residents (PRs)….”

From NPS own data, 35% of people here are foreigners, i.e. 1.69 millions of 4.84 millions. At what level does NPS consider it a flood then? 50%, 60%, 99%? Remember the target is 6.5 millions or so populace. Obviously the low-births of true-S’poreans wouldn’t even maintain 2-3 millions. So guess where the 3.5-4.5m will be from?

‘Transient’ previously defined by NPS means the 757,000 construction workers and maids. I take it to mean these have little chance to become PRs or new citizens, just here to boost the GDP and depress the wages. Since wages are depressed in this mysterious ‘transient’ stage, does it mean once they leave Singapore, our wages will shoot back up?

Ms Quah forgot to mention the non-transient cases — 143,000 on employment pass, 85,000 termed-as-students and about 215,000 unaccounted for. PRs was given as 478,200.

—————
“….A key challenge is to integrate new citizens and PRs into our society. This will take time and effort on both sides….”

This is NOT the citizens’ problem; it is the policy-makers’ problem! Don’t drag Singaporeans into a “we” vs “them” issue that shouldn’t happen in the first place!

—————
“….Our forefathers did not feel Singaporean when they first arrived here. But progressively, they and their children sank roots here…….”

Of course they didn’t — Singapore was under British rule then! To have a more accurate comparison, we should ask whether the aboriginals of Australia felt the colonials settlers were taking their land or “integrating” into their society. What about the native Red Indians of America and the subsequent “flood” of “foreigners”?

—————
“,,,Our citizens’ interests will always be the priority of the Government. The Minister Mentor had reiterated this in his speech at the Tanjong Pagar National Day Celebration Dinner on Aug 13…..”

Really? 43% of citizens didn’t even get a chance to vote in the last election, not even a chance for a show of confidence-no confidence. 34% of voters get 98% representation in parliament — how then can the majority’s interest be in govt mind? Thru the NMPs? Look at all the concerns expressed in blogs & esp. here in TOC. Any one of these ‘citizen’s interests’ got acknowledged by PM Lee in his ND speeches? Any official reply so far to say that males having done NS/Reservist will get some ‘priority’ from the Government?

—————
“….Citizens enjoy greater subsidies in HDB housing, health care and education, as well as grants under the marriage and parenthood packages and surplus sharing schemes….”

I think kojakbt covered that. To add:
a) Even if S’porean has 1% discount over a foreigner, it will be highlighted as “greater subsidies”.
b) If the marriage and parenthood packages are so great, why our TFR have slipped to 1.28? All air but no bite?
c) The $1500-$3000 relief of the taxable income for NS/Reservist is a joke for many years. Why don’t they ADD $1500-3000 to my taxable income and I don’t have to do reservist that year?

—————
In short, Ms Quah is just another air-bag for the garhem.

It seemed that many Singapore citizens felt that PR had as much subsidies in many other ways as well. When the economy was growing strongly, there was no problem but with the current recession, with many Singaporean out of a job, the feeling had changed. It is the duty of the government to look after its citizen first. Unless, the current regime had a plan to stay in office regardless of what the poor voters’ suffering. As its stand, there are not many opposition candidates to fill all the wards and so the PAP will return to power by default. Sad but true. I just hoped that it is not too late to correct the mistakes of the past 50 years. If peaceful change cannot be achieved through election, then change will come through other means which may not be disirable. Let us hope that there is enough decent PAP members who think beyond their current greed and spare a thought for the poor citizens.

the pap are really cheapskate. import all the cheapskate ft, making singapore really stinking and very cheapskate.

no wonder, chapskate government will produce cheapskate policies.

BUT WHY ARE THE PAP EARNING MILLION??

232) modern malay/indian/chinese pahlawan

Thank you (or you all?)

225) theforgottongeneration on August 29th, 2009 12.09 pm,

I understand your line of thought, and have no issues agreeing with what you put forward. My original thought was along a different line because I was under the impression you had something else concerning key performance indicators in mind.
I came from the KPI perspective to illustrate that if we don’t hard enough, we don’t need such a big army of MPs and cabinet ministers. 1 way is to open up each of their KPIs list. The number 1 criteria of any KPI for us must be to contribute mainly to Singapore and Singaporeans (not themselves). If each of them were made to declare their KPIs, I am very sure there are some redundant folks around : likened to an incompetent member hiding in an ancient orchestra playing a chinese windpipe during the warring states period. The only difference this time is there is more than 1 such member in the entire team of policy makers, given the money they earn.
KPIs and accountability are interrelated, this partly explains the absence of a culture of accountability in the civil service.
Each MP/ minister is more interested in their personal KPI (their pockets) than country KPIs (if they ever exist). Whichever scheme/ idea they put forward, they stand to gain in overwhelmingly more ways than an ordinary citizen.

225) theforgottongeneration on August 29th, 2009 12.09 pm,
Continued, I am refraining from the putting up the additional list of questions here because the combinations are myriad. A more direct method is for them to list their KPIs and then we are resume this discussion. They should figure things out given their high pays what went wrong, instead of taking the easy route to come through forums to pick on the ideas of others without paying.

KopitiamApek

post #219 on August 29th, 2009 10.27 am

////The cost component of rent vs staffing cost varies in different types of business. The labour intensive businesses are (not exhaustive) F&B, hotels, cleaning, construction, shipyards. For these industries, the rental component is far less than staff cost. For example, a Town Council cleaning contractor do not need to have an expensive retail/ office space to run the biz, most of his cost are made up of cleaners.////

1. hotel need to pay rent?
2. do employing cleaners cost alot? are they not the always & still is among the lowest wage workers?

238) kf on August 29th, 2009 9.41 pm
239) kf on August 29th, 2009 9.54 pm

Good luck, mate. Squeezing KPIs from the ministers? Now, that’s idealistic! No offense!

As a start, try getting them to commit to have a TFR of at least 2.1 over the next 5-10 years.

241) theforgottongeneration on August 29th, 2009 11.30 pm,
You want them to turn hysterical is it :-) TFR was a blunder they created for years (when so many other govts around the world have done better at lower renumerations), then trying to use the FT schemes as a quick bandage.
All KPIs I see so far from them are their personal KPIs (financially over-rewarded beings).

The people who bought houses/HDBs in 1970, 1980s. Within one generation, HDB flats that cost 50,000 to buy became $200,000. Most people that generation suddenly have their assets gone up

think again. do you really make the money if you sell your flat that you have bought for just 50,000 and selling at 200,000??

tell you what. the 200,000 can be gone and into the pocket of the goverment when you woke up the next morning and don’t forget you are living in las vegas now no more kampong days… :(

66) singaporekia on August 26th, 2009 8.58 pm

I agree vote with your brain, that is why I choose PAP the most successful governement in Asia

are you kidding us??? the most success?? maybe to their own

what is walkovers ah? the meaning of it?lol

The biggest problem is that the Ministers and Senior Civil Servants do not face any competition from the foreigners:

1) Foreigners are not allowed to become ministers or senior civil servants

2) Minister’s and Senior civil servants’ children get into top primary schools like Nanyang Primay School. They are guaranted a place – you know I know. Then they tell Singaporeans to be more generous-minded and welcome more foreigners ro compete with them. Ministers should lead by example and send their children to ordinary neighbourhood school, and not just use their mouth only

100) lobo76 on August 27th, 2009 1.32 pm

96) Jezebella on August 27th, 2009 12.04 pm
The $1k plus salary is a lot when converted to their home currency, but remember they are also living in Singapore, and what’s left for them to live on here is probably halved.

really??

they live in domitories where they have the same bed,fan. unlimited water usage and shower for hours and food provided and entertainment tv and they can use the electricity like no body business and for all their salary deduction is only $50 to $100 each. while singapore can pay all that for $100??!! and other way is they stay in container with aircon for some and fan, unlimited usage of water and electricities and they don’t have to pay a single cents for it as company safe cost and provide them in the premises of the company itself and for you singaporeans info nowadays is plasma tv in beer garden and beers are cheap with sexy girls catering on them and cigarette are from contra costing $5 and beedies are cheap too. they earn $2500 and they get to all this just for $100.

foriegn the lowest income is $800 and they pay overall costing of $50 for thier lodging while foreign earning $1800 paying just $100 for their lodging and foreign earning $8k paying just a fix amount of $500 for them and their family who hop in singapore to enjoy life.

while singaporeans?? what is our earning and what is our (singaporeans) living standards exclude the foreign please.thanks.

old lady earn $600 take home pay and what the #@*# can this old lady do with it?

this is slicing their throat off indirectly and singaporeans knowing all this is happening will all singaporeans vote PAP again and support our dearest FATHER LEE KUAN YEW AND HIS SON?

233) george on August 29th, 2009 7.26 pm I had no problem getting one as the employer was prepared to apply work permit on my behalf. I am willing to assist and advise anybody from Singapore who are prepared to seek a way forward through education. God Bless

GEORGE can you do us singaporeans a favour??

fo from our country as we don’t need your advice. yes the boss got no problem applying you permit as they save cost too and less burden to employ singaporeans.

to george

are labelling singaporeans STUPID as we hae still need to study and you had master ahead of us??
then go back your country and try to ask for employment see if you can get a job there with your current pay and if you say you can get a job there we bet it is way too low for you to survive in your own country whereby you have to hop in our country and take a piece of it and advice us?

you must be crazy!!

to 249 modern malay indian chinese pahlawan..eh, i think george at 233 is not FT or FT, but a singaporean who got left singapore after his national service..i think what he only meant to say it is still possible to leave singapore if we are want to..pls read his post again. i don ‘t think he meant to lecuture us singaporeans still stuck in this increasingly foreign country of ours. i think he was offering his help to any singaporeans who would like to consider leaving this country.
i would certainly like any help, for my children, if any is available. my family is feeling the heat in all fronts..education, job prospects, rising costs of basic necessities (these days, fifty dollars don’t buy much..i used to be able to feed my family of four on fifty dollars)

Peter Tan wrote:

“2) Minister’s and Senior civil servants’ children get into top primary schools like Nanyang Primay School. They are guaranted a place – you know I know. Then they tell Singaporeans to be more generous-minded and welcome more foreigners ro compete with them. Ministers should lead by example and send their children to ordinary neighbourhood school, and not just use their mouth only”

I might add:

3) Senior civil servants can get a whole stretch of 5 week leaves to go to France and learn exquisite French cooking…

I doubt any bosses will approve such a long leave in the private sector…

on a side note, not all bosses are happy about males going for their annual ICTs/IPPT/RTs/IPTs…

but by its required by law, if no such law?…

240) mice is nice

1. hotel need to pay rent?
No need. But the biz cost is mainly staffs’ wages, that is my point.

2. do employing cleaners cost alot? are they not the always & still is among the lowest wage workers?
But the biz cost is mainly all workers’ wages, that is my point.

KopitiamApek,

“No need. But the biz cost is mainly staffs’ wages, that is my point.”

i am sceptical about that kind of statement. its your point but how true is it in reality?

strange how our world class work force are often coaxed to accept 3rd world salaries in a world class nation. does it make sense? what more S’pore is often ranked highly when it comes to cost of living.

as for wages costing more than rentals, i will leave it to other posters to contribute their knowledge. i do not have to figures.

“But the biz cost is mainly all workers’ wages, that is my point.”

mops, brooms & pails cost less for sure. even the cost of pressurised jetsprays can be had for $1200, which maybe 2 months salary of the staff.

do cleaners earn enough to sustain themselves (start a family, take care of their parents & have enough for retirement) even if some ponder about joining this industry? that is my point.

254) mice is nice

we got to split the 2 issues here
1. biz sustainabilty
2. workers wages
they are conflicting interests

1.
in order to succesfully get the cleaning contracts, if the cleaning contractors pay $2000 (say) per cleaner, they will never ever get a cleaning contract, not with the Town Councils not with pte condos.
It is a race to the bottom, if I may borrow a fellow poster’s words.
So they get cheap workers to stay in biz.

If the bidding system is changed to allow quality bids that cost more, or if the cleaning contractors collude to raise the tender amount, the end result will be hifgher conservancy charges.

Do we put the money where our mouth is and pay the higher charges?

(please do not answer with the billions lost by you-know-who)

2
////do cleaners earn enough to sustain themselves (start a family, take care of their parents & have enough for retirement) even if some ponder about joining this industry? that is my point./////

the answer is no.
You cannot improve working conditions for such work no matter how hard you try.
that is why there will hardly any be singaporean cleaners no matter how hard we try.

the way forward for the garbage collection is automation.
Centralsied rubbsuh chutes (implemented), mechanised sweepers for road cleaning (implemented) and on the long term automatic below ground pneumatic pipe waste disposal system.

It will reduce dependency on, but will not eliminate the need for manpower.

KopitiamApek,

that is the problem, you see them as isolated issues to be looked into, while i se them as part of a web of issues that are interconnected.

for point 1:
using Town Council is a very poor example, they have been hoarding money that depressed wages of cleaners. lost a fraction of the amount leading todepressed wages for those contracted cleaners.

for point 2:
////You cannot improve working conditions for such work no matter how hard you try.
that is why there will hardly any be singaporean cleaners no matter how hard we try.////

hmmm, can i refresh your memory on positive thinking in,
http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/08/foreigners-we-have-been-calibrating-the-inflows-says-nps/comment-page-2/#comment-101453
post #91 on August 30th, 2009 8.23 pm

256) mice is nice on August 30th, 2009 11.29 pm

KopitiamApek,

that is the problem, you see them as isolated issues to be looked into, while i se them as part of a web of issues that are interconnected.

point 1:
using Town Council is a very poor example, they have been hoarding money that depressed wages of cleaners. lost a fraction of the amount leading todepressed wages for those contracted cleaners.

point 2:
////You cannot improve working conditions for such work no matter how hard you try.
that is why there will hardly any be singaporean cleaners no matter how hard we try.////

hmmm, can i refresh your memory on positive thinking in,
http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/08/foreigners-we-have-been-calibrating-the-inflows-says-nps/comment-page-2/#comment-101453
post #91 on August 30th, 2009 8.23 pm

250) very concerned mom

“my family is feeling the heat in all fronts..education, job prospects, rising costs of basic necessities (these days, fifty dollars don’t buy much..i used to be able to feed my family of four on fifty dollars)”

Same here. I worry about money and my family’s future the 1st thing I wake up every morning…sighs.

Wow! So many comments over the weekend. Seems like war already.

“Why cant the Goverment give tax rebate to the corporation and company for hiring Singaporeans.” : Kezu.

Yup! Why can’t they indeed.

@ 205) Agent008 on August 28th, 2009 5.48 pm:

Well said – kudos!

@230) budamax1952 on August 29th, 2009 4.19 pm,

I agree that it is good to be noble but let me explain why we should not even contemplate being compassionate, in this instance. To do this, we need to see the difference between FT and FW.

The government has been proclaiming the importance of FT but silently opening the doors to FW. FTs is what Singapore need (if going by the government’s reasoning is anything to go by) but it is FWs that it is bringing in.

Why? Because the FTs are in those positions that make decisions on who to hire – and obviously, being the talent that they are, coupled with the need to show results the Singapore way – which is all about profits – it is inevitable that these FTs hire workers from their own home countries.

The fault nay lie with the government’s open-door policy, but it is the manner in which businesses are run that is the problem. FTs employing FWs are creating mayhem to our economic and social instability.

Actually it goes 2 ways :
(a) FTs in hiring positions bring in workers from their countries.
(b) FT’s not in hiring positions recommend workers from their home countries to their non-FT bosses. Sometimes, for 1 available position, we get 4-5 workers from their countries recommended, in addition to the fact these employees gave good testimonies on them.

in my course of work now, i do feel the heat of like ‘ at the mercy of FTs and FWs as they seem to take control of work places and creating little village of their own.

most of the time, i keep wondering ‘what the hell is this country of ours doing with their own brotherhood fellows?’

i also hate FT. i was once betrayed by a FT manager in a bank here.

but at the end of it all, i think :” fark man, if i keep on whining here, they will keep screwing me.” so i shut up and move on and keep upgrading myself.

the FT is a threat but it keeps me wanting to do better.

one day i will go back and fark the ah-nei manager big time.

pui!

In reality the issue of FT are global issue.

Singaporean that are FT in other countries ie China, India and so on are look upon the same way we see FT here.
There are no reason why their locals cant do the same job, but the supposed prestige that comes with hiring FT is usually the main reason for the influx of FT in their country. So they have the same sentiments as we do.

Are we localizing a global issue?

Esp in China, they are constantly upgrading themselves without having any prompting from Govn. That mentality that we should emulate while leave the negative sentiment aside.

Thank you for the insightful blogpost. The Singapore Democrats have featured your post in our blogs of the week section – http://yoursdp.org/index.php/news/blogs-of-the-week

“…they seem to take control of work places and creating little village of their own…” : Mike.

You sure know what you are talking about. Let me relate the situation in my office to lend support to your words.

My department has 70 plus workers. Fortunately, the managers and executives are all Singaporeans. In fact, my manager was formerly a director of one of the CDCs. He very much agrees with me that the PAP has lost some of its direction and that the influx of foreign workers is getting out of hand.

The most unfortunate part was that when he took over, there were already so many foreign workers in the department – all employed by the former manager – whose main consideration was to cut cost then. Cheap labour was the preferred choice.

The result of having so many foreign workers is that they tend to gather among themselves. During the course of their daily work, they would consult among themselves, in their own language and support each other when arguing a point.

During break times, they also mingle among themselves and whenever a Singaporean colleague comes within their circle, they will give the impression that he is not welcomed. They are oblivious to their surroundings, bringing food that smell like dead rats when micro-waved. Talk at the top of their voice and laughing as if they own the whole damn place.

Who are these foreigners you may ask. Well, they come from the Philippines, Burma, Vietnam, Sri Lanka, India and Malaysia.

Kezu,

post #263 on August 31st, 2009 2.29 pm

////In reality the issue of FT are global issue.

Are we localizing a global issue?////

the reality that despite it being a global issue, there are rather specific issues unique to each country.

how many country so small opens it’s doors so wide to immigrants?

Japanese have leveled the playing field by voting out the ruling party.
Now , as with almost all countries that held election recently since 2008, have seen their ruling parties REPLACED by their Loyal Opposition.

Except ….

ya, i remember
France had Sarkozi replaced their ruling party,
Malaysian Opposition have been winning and winning more and more .
USA Opposition won the election recently,
Japan LDP lost to DPJ – their citizens Terminated LDP’s service after 50 long years!!
Singapore ……. sigh…

our party got so much $$ retire early, buy home in another country, every day is happy go lucky!!

I saw on the ST dated 25 august a job agency hiring tens of contract staff to provide service to companies . job is priced at about $900. it asks for singaporeans and pr.

I hope TOC readers can advice me , do empolyers get to receive JCS if they hire residents who are contract staff?

When is JCS ending?

some even offer contract for 3months. That is 1 quarter.

#268,

I wish to inform you that you missed out at least 1 other example of Opposition DEFEATING Ruling parties : THAILAND, land of smiles.

Since 2007 to 2009 the world is all about Oppositions Defeating the Ruling parties.

People, feel free to add to the list.

If you cannot give better lives to the People , Sack You!

256) mice is nice ,

//////that is the problem, you see them as isolated issues to be looked into, while i se them as part of a web of issues that are interconnected. ///////

A problem cannot be solved at the same level of thinking as when it was created. : Einstein

“Do or do not, there is no try” I see no connection of this quote to #2

KopitiamApek

post #272 on August 31st, 2009 10.28 pm

“A problem cannot be solved at the same level of thinking as when it was created. : Einstein”

the thing is are you even looking at the problem without tinted eyes? there is such a thing as failure to see things as they are….

“I see no connection of this quote to #2″

then you are doomed to repeat your mistakes till you do. ;)

To all new citizens, do not think that the present government who treated you first class by giving scholarship, job opportunities and $40,000 to purchase HDB flat in the open market, hence you should vote for them. If the present government can treat us like a discartable toy, so can you be treated the same. A leopard will not change it’s spot. Have you heard of the taxi driver with PhD. You owe them nothing except Singapore whom are the people. Think about your future and those of your children and get rid of such people who are forcing our children to consider migration oversea. Vote the people who put Singapore first – loyalty to their people and not loyalty to the party.

It might seem unrelated but it forms the foundation of what the ruling party or should I say our great MM believed in. Whether we have reached this ideal or aspiration , I would let the people make their own judgement. People cannot expect the future to be secured just because we have glowing testimonies, history books, wonderful videos and fear inducing speeches. We need to ask ourselves, what will happen when we become old, what will happen when we lose our jobs, what will happen if i get sick, what will happen to my children in the future. Is the sacrifices we have made over the 50 years being rewarded or are only a few enjoying. Hope TOC puts these words somewhere permanently so that all can remember.
” I’m told repression is like making love- it’s always easier the second
time. The first time there may be pangs of conscience, a sense of guilt.But once
embarked on this course, with constant repetition, you get more and more brazen int the attack and in the scope of the attack. All you have to do
is dissolve organisations and societies and banish or detain the key
political workers in the societies. Then, miraculously, everything is tranquil on
the surface. Then an intimidated press and the government-controlled radio
together can regularly sing your praise, and slowly and steadily the people are made to forget the evil things that have already been done. Or if these things are referred to again the’re conveniently distorted and distorted with impunity because there will be no oppositiion to contradict.”

People are we forgeting the evil things….

Jobs and bond-free scholarships for foreigners–NS from 18-50 for citizens.
What a wonderful govt.
Only priority citizens get is 18-50 NS.
How is the CEO search at TH coming along?
Has WKS got back MAS SELA?

268) to #267 on August 31st, 2009 4.35 pm ,

bro, dont sigh and give up hope. as long as you are eyeing for what you want, it will happened. cheers, man!

265) gemami on August 31st, 2009 4.07 pm ,

i am pissed and sad and no feeling for this government. i welcome foreigners but not over doing it in this stage. this bunch of idiot elites in the govenment just dont bother how the general public and less mortal feel. what they care is money and ranking..

272) KopitiamApek on August 31st, 2009 10.28 pm

256) mice is nice ,

hey guy, you missed Taiwan too. so likely next is who yea…….:)

Dear Singaporean, please do not get angry but use the energy to better yourself. I am speaking from personal experience. I bought a one way ticket to UK after enrolling myself on a degree course. Just enough money to pay the fee and air ticket. Then I set about applying for educational grant, scholarship and part time employment. Life was tough but I felt I was doing something worth well. I had noe completed my degree and MSc. Even today, Germany is providing free Uni education and if you think “I can’t read German” don’t worry, they also provide one year German courses free for those who wished to pursue further education. Personally, I had known several Malaysian who had gone through this route. Many do part time job in restaurant to get by. Apply to the university or colledges in English and if you could get someone to translate them into German, so much the better.

For what its worth, i believe the ‘privileges’ of being singaporean are getting more insignificant these 5-10 years past, in comparison to PR.

The government are trying so hard to import these FT, (let just say they are as good as the government hope for).
But what would entice them to stay on and convert to citizenship?

There has to be significant difference between Singaporean and PR, to further entice them. If not they are just like Temp Staff in a company. (Come today gone tomorrow)

Sigh, should have retained the PR, instead of converting. Sigh

281) Kezu on September 1st, 2009 4.30 pm ,

you sound like u have converted from PR to citizenship. oh, goodness!

lots of my malaysian friends staying in singapore for more than 20 years and remained as PR, they knew too well about this governement. next PRC is doing the same. smart move!

so Kezu, you move was a genuine mistake. can’t be help. face it like us and but at least you have a A-Card which is your right to Vote. so use it wisely, man. good luck!

Kezu,

maybe you should sound the bell of caution to your former countrymen, where you were from…

#282) Mike, i know. Sigh.

#283) mice is nice. ; i wont do a such thing. They should come and suffers along. Misery should be shared. :-)

#125,
“I used to work in a place where i am the only singaporean. ”

oh, let me guess, IT right?
kekekekeke.
SAD.

#125,
“I used to work in a place where i am the only singaporean. ”

I am not the only Singaporean in my place, but we ARE becoming an endangered species soon to extinct

What can we expect? Foreigners have been flooding in masses over the past decade.

Vote out the clown in the next coming GE

Foreigners coming is not a problem.

If they dont want to convert to citizenship, then we are no more than just providing ‘Hotel Singapura’.

Waste of time.

[...] that there are more privileges awarded a foreigner than a Singaporean like a blogger writes here. With no national service liaibility (40 days), no CPF and no “resign” privileges, [...]

We need minimum wages !

Without foreigners, Singapore will be a dead city!

No one to build the houses.
No one to work in the manufacturing, service and construction sectors.
No one to tour the island.
No one to study in the universities.
No one to shop in the malls.
No one to pay taxes.

Think about it!

> Without foreigners, Singapore will be a dead city!

I don’t think most Singaporeans are against foreigners per se. However, as in all things, there is a limit to everything. Currently, we are importing too many foreigners working here.

> No one to build the houses.
> No one to work in the manufacturing, service and construction sectors.

Again, we are not saying stopping foriegn workers altogether. Sure, we do need them but care has to be given to Singaporeans first. Have you ever wonder why there are whites willing to work as construction workers in the west? Do you know that they are paid as much as a fresh grad over there? Ask yourself why we can’t pay a Singaporean blue collar worker as much as a fresh grad here in Singapore. Do we aspire to be a 1st world country or 3rd?

> No one to tour the island.
> No one to study in the universities.
> No one to shop in the malls.

I don’t think Singaporeans are against tourists and foreign students. For students, just make sure they don’t secretly work here. Also, give more priorities to Singaporeans to study in our own universities. As it is, I feel that 20% quota (not counting PRs) for foreign students in our public universities is too high. Typical value is about 10% for public univsersities in the US. In the west, they take care of their own citizens first. The PAP Govt seems to be doing the reverse.

> No one to pay taxes.

The bulk of FTs who are work permit holders hardly pay any taxes. In fact, they remit most of the money out of Singapore.

> Think about it!

Yes, you should think about it too….

@291) My Views on December 11th, 2009 4.03 am

Surprised this trend is still active. But unfortunately only by people employing usual bogeyman tactics. I hope commenters can compile a list of counter-bogeyman items for such stock answers, e.g.

Without a core of true-blue Singaporean mass, Singapore WILL be a dead city:

- No one to defend the foreigners and/or our highly-paid ministers.
- No one to integrate those that need to intergrate.
- No one to study in the universities?? This is talking from the donkey’s ass. Read mistake in teaching Chinese for past 50 years….
- Only tourists touring places crewed by tourists.
- No one to pay taxes?? What have I been doing for past 15+ years? Every car you buy, every litre of petrol, every house, each plate of chicken rice, etc…. is taxed. Stupid is stupid as is stupid.
- No one that will vote for change.
- No one to remind our govt that it is NOT them that brought Singapore from a small fishing village to the status of today but the sweat and blood of our parents & grandparents.
- No one to patronize the neighbourhood kopitiam to keep alive things that are truly uniquely Singaporean.
- No one who can speak Singlish.
- No one contributing here.

@292) kojakbt on December 12th, 2009 6.00 am

An economist some time back mentioned more than 50% of our GDP is actually remit out of the country. This is one effect of relying too much on FWs/FTs — 36% of the population, yet more than 50% outflow of wealth generated.

Indeed, think about it…

Refer to comments in [292] and [293] :

Whatever wages paid to Singaporean workers will be ultimately borne by Singaporeans. I thought you guys have been screaming for decades about the HDB prices charged by the government? Yes, in Western countries, workers are paid much higher than their counterparts in Singapore. But look at the costs of living in their countries!

Foreign students – Singapore needs to attract as much foreign talents as it can. One way of doing this is to get them to study here (sponsor them if the need arises) and hopefully after they graduated, they would stay and work here as long as possible. You see, when the ministers persuade foreign companies to invest here, they have to convince investors with positive factors about Singapore, e.g. political stability, low cost of living, availability of foreign talents and local Singaporean workers. You guys may not be aware that It is not an easy job to tell foreign investors to set up businesses in Singapore.

FT paying taxes – apart from income tax, what about GST? And please do not confuse foreign workers with foreign talents! The latter refers to those working in respectable positions (such as retail executives, bank managers, production superintendent and accountants) earning comparable income (if not more) as Singaporean professionals. They pay all kinds of Singapore tax and fee, but do not enjoy the same subsidies as Singaporeans (e.g. they need to buy HDB in the open market).

Three days ago, I contributed my ” two bits” to this column, Am interested to find out what others think of my effort but cannot locate my “masterpiece”. Anyway, I hate those bloody Äng Mohs who were useless Rejects from the Parent Company backhome but came here to deprive us of promotion.

He, like many, foreigner talent came here to block the higher post for local but with no expatriate allowances.. ‘He was a Canadian Graphic Arts Sales Executive in Argentina who got the ” reward to live in Singapore”for delivering the US$One Million Cash
Ransom to some TerroristKidnappers who hijacked the General Manager there and he got the GM release. He begged to be moved to HongKong to escape from trouble but LANDED a job in Singapore which is as good country to enjoy Expatriate Life as HK.

The bloke was not announced what his designation and job job description were to the local staff but spent time going around with Sales Staff and attending Meetings but he offered no contribution of talent for the Benefits of the Company nor increase Sales. He was more interested in zeroing in to mix in Singapore High Society. I had to sign Bar Bills which were continuation of after Dealers Meeting but definitely not approved officially.

Another American who majored in Mandarin and married a Taiwanese who went back to live for a year in the US where the couple became popular with hard up Americans who slivered at Chinese woman. The wife made a lot of money posing for company products in ads. When the pair came to live here that money making opportunity was gone. In work, that Mandarin Speaking Foreign Talenthusband was useless as everyone speaks English and write better than him. Hence his wife became nonproductive and could not get photographic model job because we have better and more beautiful China “dolls”in Singapore.
I was approached to use his wife for company product advertising but actually she is ugly by our standard, after sometime, the woman divorced the husband who was trying to peddle the wife.to make more money…haha !! Yak …that’s Foreign Talent peddling wife !

Osamaobama

He came and worked with us but the local Management did say why that chap wasnow with us. Instead of assigning a Graphic Art job, that chap was a spare tyre in Marketing Amateur Products