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Leong Sze Hian was invited by BlogTV to pen an article for them. We publish it below.
Before we talk about whether Singaporeans deserve to have more privileges than PRs and foreigners, perhaps we could first ask whether there may be any areas whereby foreigners or PRs have “more privileges” than Singaporeans?
Employers which employ foreigners, do not have to contribute CPF. So, the employer saves up to 14.5 per cent of the salary.
Employ a female on the S-Pass or work permit, you don’t have to worry about the four months maternity leave if you employ a Singaporean lady. As I understand it, the conditions of the S-Pass and work permit forbids them from becoming pregnant.
If you employ a Singaporean male, he has up to 40 days of reservist liability in a year. In contrast, employing a foreign or PR male, eliminates this problem.
Since those on say work permits are stuck with the same employer for up to three years, the employer may not have a turnover problem – Singaporean employees can resign anytime.
So, is the playing field level in employment, for Singaporeans, vis-à-vis foreigners?
In this regard, I think Singaporeans may not even be asking for “more privileges”, but just a more level playing field.
Moreover, since foreigners do not have to make their own employee’s CPF contribution of up to 20 per cent, their disposable income may be more than a Singaporean worker.
This may be one of the reasons why the wages of lower-income, lower-skilled jobs may have been declining over the years.
For example, cleaners that used to earn about $800 a month a few years ago, now only earn about $650.
As Singaporeans typically have families to feed, mortgages to service, relative to foreigners or PRs who may generally be here alone, Singaporeans may find it more difficult to accept lower paying jobs, for the simple fact that it may not be enough for their basic needs relative to foreigners and PRs.
The manpower regulations require employers to insure all foreign workers for at least $5,000 of medical insurance cover.
However, there is no such requirement for Singaporean workers.
So, in some companies, we have the abnormality of foreign workers being insured, whereas Singaporeans are not.
This is another example of “less privileges” rather than “more privileges”.
PR siblings (below age 35) qualify to buy resale HDB flats. However, Singaporean PR siblings (below age 35) do not. Why is it that in this aspect, even PRs may have “more privileges” than Singaporeans?
I think what may really irk Singaporeans, may not be so much about how much more or less privileges there are, but rather how many Singaporeans these “privileges” policies may be affecting.
In order to answer this question, we need for example, the break-down of the unemployment statistics into Singaporeans and PRs, instead of lumping them together as residents; HDB flats purchased by PRs relative to citizens, etc.
PRs who have no jobs may be able to more easily return to their home country, sell their HDB flats, etc, but Singaporeans generally have no choice but to find work and stay in Singapore.
We may also need to be more discerning in examining the statistics when we ask for more privileges, as sometimes, when say PRs and foreigners have to pay more for medical fees relative to Singaporeans, it may be Singaporean employers, Singaporean households, who may be bearing the brunt of the fees increase, as they are the ones paying for their foreign/PR employees, domestic maids, non-Singaporean spouses and relatives.
For example, when fees increase for foreigners and PRs, but remain the same for Singaporeans, it may not be “more privileges”.
Instead, it may be a greater financial burden for some Singaporeans, unless increase in fees for foreigners and PRs, means lower fees for Singaporeans.
An alumnus of Harvard University, Leong Sze Hian has authored 4 books, been quoted over 1000 times in the media , host of a radio show on money matters and a daily newspaper column, has been a Wharton Fellow and invited to speak more than 100 times in more than 20 countries on 5 continents. He has served as Honorary Consul of Jamaica, Chairman of the Institute of Administrative Management, and founding advisor to the Financial Planning Associations of Indonesia and Brunei.
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Fat Hope,
“As sure as the Sun will rise from the East, the PAP will get a clean sweep in the next Erection.”
everyday i have lunch, but i don’t have the same dish i had yesterday…
clean sweep? they can choose where they want to sweep, of course win lah. people with all the say & very high pay have the odds on their side.
“
196) What is there to oppose
We can all argue until the cow comes home about why FWs are allowed in on masse but we will still get nowhere if there is no trustable souce of statistics.
Until now, we are none the wiser if your claims are true that MAJORITY of Sporeans are “picky about the job, Sporeans want air con, high pay, convenient location workplace.” There will be some, like in every society there will be a minority of ‘parasites’ but whether what you claim Sporeans to be is a majority, thats the general Sporean attitude, we do not know unless some sort of survey is done.
What I find interesting is that if a Sporean is picky and does not want to work, what does s/he live on? As we all know, everything needs money in Spore and we do no have unemployment benefit. How will such a person live? Who sponsors them? So is it true that these people are a plenty in our society? Where do they get the money if they refuse to work?
maybe the picky 1s are those enjoying their million dollar salaries in cool aircon comfort, are picky themselves & so afraid to change jobs? :P
Hi XiiAoGeNgEnX
What do you base on to claim that Spore has world class education? Is it based on student results or based on industrial & scientific achievements, that is what students can do or contribute in industries? Commonsense tells us that both are related, that if student results are good, they should do well in industries, but is this the case in Spore?
You can keep kidding yourself that we have a world class education, but do you wonder why then do we still need to heavily rely on foreign talents? Isn’t it contradictory?
Before you go shifting responsibility entirely on parents, please know that majority of parents (both mums & dads) in Spore have to work fulltime (maybe longer than fulltime, some have 2 or 3 jobs or have to attend night classes). Please also know that world class education is not one with plenty of homework. In fact the tons of homework will kill the children’s interest and desire for knowledge. The tons of homework also robs children of sleep and playtime, both essential for mental & social development.
With regards to resources, you are also wrong to say that there is no lack in it. Do you have any idea how expensive books are in Spore? Parents who can access good books for their children are more likely to give their children a head start. What about arts & craft materials, musical instruments and educational toys, all of which help towards mental stimulation? All these are unaffordable to alot of children.
Hmmmm,
Why cant the Goverment give tax rebate to the corporation and company for hiring Singaporeans. Perhaps that might level the playing field?
Since billions of dollars lost in western stock market is not a big deal to our goverment , for the above the amount would be peanuts too?
Just a thought.
to agent008, for your information, most of the job taken by FT is in aircon, high pay, convenient location workplace.
hopeless @ 207
My post @203 refers to FWs – Foreign Workers, not Talents. They always say that nobody wants to work as cleaners or retail service staff. Nobody can verify how many except to cite what friends say, or friends of friends or cousins of cousins….. All guess work by grassroots?
Foreign Talent is another hot potato that need addressing because our own local grads are out of jobs and also we are bleeding our own few talents that we got all because this stubborn govt refuses to look into why or what is the problem. However again, I am guessing here because how many grads are out of jobs or how many post grad professionals are leaving each year on year, we do not know.
The problem with Spore is we do not have independent pressure groups or lobbyists to collect figures. Either this ruling party has alot to hide or simply can’t be bothered, we do not know too!
196) What is there to oppose on August 28th, 2009 4.19 pm
Have you asked why Singaporeans cannot make a living on their own? the playing field has always been level. it is your god-damm mindset that is not level.
So, Mister, are you saying it is entirely the fault of the weak that they are born naturally to be less competitive and therefore to step aside?
If it is, I think that you should seriously reflect on your mindset and behave more like a fellow being when making a comment here.
Obviously, your attitude has revealed you as a thoughtless male PRICK that still have no offspring. So, you better pray hard that the sons that you conceive will be equally bright, brilliant, and behaves as a prick like you. Good luck.
NS for ALL or NS for NONE
The only thing I disagree with Mr Leong is that he have not run for any election all these years.
A loss to the people.
NS for ALL? YOU GOTTA BE KIDDING! There are white horse, silver horses with special privileges and special allocations of vocations in NS and invisible horses whose medical conditions were paid a large sum to exist on paper. Rich, powerful and influential boys either enjoy good life as clerks in non-combat units, prestige as officers in non-combat units, or don’t even need to serve NS. Get a gripe on reality dude.
180) theforgottongeneration on August 28th, 2009 11.34 am,
I cannot be sure I understand your question. MPs in general don’t earn million bucks per year from civil service (Do you have someone in mind ?). It’s the cabinet ministers and above who do. If you are talking about cabinet ministers, the first thing is for them to declare what performance indicators are on their plate. If they cannot even answer this question, there is no reason for us to assume this person has a critical role. In descriptive terms, if this role didn’t exist, what do we as citizens lose out on. The next few layers of questioning are very complex, and are highly dependent on their answers.
In the US of A, citizenship can be had by applying as a member of the Armed Forces. See this -> http://usmilitary.about.com/od/theorderlyroom/a/citizenship.htm
“” If you are a member of the U.S. Armed Forces and are interested in becoming a U.S. citizen, you may be eligible to apply for citizenship under special provisions provided for in the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA). “”
Even Non-USA citizens can serve USA ?
I think this is a great way to inculcate loyalty to the country and also a way for new immigrants to show they are serious to become part of the family.
If only singapore learns from the USA if not imitate how they get things done.
Maybe good for singapore.
peace
Didn’t expect so many responsed to my post.
The questions that i posted are just a few that came to my mind during that time, and frankly speaking i don’t have a standard answer to them ( though some have provided ans).
Added lists
- Virtually all nurses are FWs
- Maids
- All KTV hostess and singers are “foreign talents”
- All massage masseuses are FWs
- Geylang hookers are ALL FWs
- News broadcaster are FWs
- Bus drivers gradually replaced by chinese
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I used to work in a place where i am the only singaporean. Trust me, no joke, not a pleasant environment to be in. Malaysian will always proclaimed ” sprean are proud”, chinese dun mixed with u local. Can’t understand indians as they have funny accent. Can’t understand vietnamese as they seems to be mummuring all the times. Ang Mo high pos, dun mixed with u small fry.
BUT, no matter how much i hated them. I realised that they are here to stay. Even the opposition take over ( but hor, dun know which donkey year lah), no easy task to tackle.
Level playing field ?? hmm, rather than betting on this very slim hope, best to equip ourself with the relevant skillset. Know ur own stuff.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The other thing abt employers lah. I think employers in the singapore only have the “$$$$” in mind. They very cheapskate lah. In certain industries, they get a certain amt of cash for hiring FWs ( known secret ) from agent. Also, good to control and exploit the FWs as they are holdingon to their passports.
One of my relatives onli hired malaysians. Some of my ex-company group leaders only hired their countryman. No one seems to like sporean. haha.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Another thing also very important lah. Sporean consumers very “niao”, want cheap, want green want big neh neh. Where got such thing in this world?
If the consumer don’t want to pay more, of course the employers don’t want to pay more to hire. Then we get the result that, the low income workers getting less and less, especially in the sector of cleaners.
>>>>>>>>>>
Again, just my 2cts worth of thoughts.
Ahgong,
“Level playing field ?? hmm, rather than betting on this very slim hope, best to equip ourself with the relevant skillset. Know ur own stuff.”
at work knowing your stuff can only get you that far. when the human factor come into play, it takes 2 hands to clap.
“One of my relatives onli hired malaysians. Some of my ex-company group leaders only hired their countryman. No one seems to like sporean. haha.”
this type of reply full of scorn.
“If the consumer don’t want to pay more, of course the employers don’t want to pay more to hire.”
even if consumers pay more, employers may pay a higher salary to employees. its common knowledge that in F&B outlets, the “service charge” of 10% does not go to the service staff.
my $0.02 worth of thoughts on your $0.02 worth of thoughts. :)
from my reply above
even if consumers pay more, employers may NOT pay a higher salary to employees. its common knowledge that in F&B outlets, the “service charge” of 10% does not go to the service staff.
135) Vomit Blood
/////////- Almost 100% of the hdb rubbish collector/cleaner are indians FW///////
i suspect some are bangladeshis. I could not tell the diff also.////////
They are mostly Bangladeshis.
136) mice is nice
- Are employers willing to pay more to hire local?
. rent is a big component to business.
137) Yamamoto
Woa, comparing to the escalating rental cost, the cost of hiring is according to mrs goh, peanuts…
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////
The cost component of rent vs staffing cost varies in different types of business. The labour intensive businesses are (not exhaustive) F&B, hotels, cleaning, construction, shipyards. For these industries, the rental component is far less than staff cost. For example, a Town Council cleaning contractor do not need to have an expensive retail/ office space to run the biz, most of his cost are made up of cleaners.
155) wow
//////Land is scarce in this country.
No. Land is not scarce in Singapore.
Just look around you and all the mindef training ground and you have an idea.//////
MINDEF has been freeing up its land for civilian use over the years, consolidating its old camps into Camp Complexes that that up only a fraction of the old Camps left behind by the Brits.
oneNorth is one example,
Land, sea, air training are being conducted overseas because we just do not have the land to do such things, and partly no thanks to our “friendly” neighbours across the causeway.
156) XiiAoGeNgEnX
////////The difference is that they come from a much poorer background than any Singaporean can imagine, so they’re willing to accept a far lower standard of living. Can we then fault them for being more frugal than us?
The race to the bottom will be won by the FWs. Singaporeans should be racing to the top. ////////////.
I like what you wrote.
If I may, I distilled from what you wrote to 2 key word/phrases
1 “frugal”
2 “race to the bottom”
Frugal is what Singaporeans are not.
The ones who lost the race, and will continue to lose the race, to the FW are those who participated in the race to the bottom.
Posted by one of the forumers on 3in1kopitiam:
http://forums.delphiforums.com/3in1kopitiam/messages?msg=20003.1
Today, I met up with one of my old buddies and had kopi with him. He a Chinese converted to a Muslim as he married a Malay lady. We were chatting and started to talk about the foreign trash in SG. We all knew about the problem and I told him frankly that I think that the FTs shit deal has the biggest impact on the local Malay community.
He told me yes, he said that many Malays are very frustrated with the situation. He cited one example was his brother in law. He is Malay and was working as a restaurant manager and earns about basic $1800/ mth excluding OT and tips. He lost his job last year because he was replaced by a cheaper foreign trash. Now his brother in law then have trouble getting a new job because many restaurants are hiring foreign trash with lower wages. Sadly, now he part times drives taxi and do odd jobs to feed his family. He said that the local Malays are less vocal but are equally frustrated as the rest of Singapore.
But my friend told me his biggest concern, which really startled. This situation will give JI and those radical Muslim groups a health recruitment environment. He feel that many Malays are being marginalized by cheaper foreign trash and have problem getting jobs that once were theirs and were happy with those jobs.
Our farking short sighted government is unwittingly endangered our national security for short-term economic gain. Previously, I am frustrated with this foreign trash deal but now I am frustrated and afraid.
Am I overly concern?
222) kojakbt
///But my friend told me his biggest concern, which really startled. This situation will give JI and those radical Muslim groups a health recruitment environment. ////
I thniking using JI as a treat is not addressing the issue nor not helping the situation.
Are the other races to organise similar terrorist groups to justify being employed?
@213) kf on August 28th, 2009 11.34 pm
Kf, pls don’t take my sarcasm wrongly. Whether cabinet or parliament ministers, the sentiment is that they are enriching themselves with high pays while the man-on-the-street struggles with bread-&-butter issues.
Not sure what performance indicators you are looking for from them. Previously I highlighted that for past decade or so, the growth of our GDP is predominantly due to injection of LABOUR rather than capital. This kinda coincident with the influx of FT/FWs that we are discussing herein. Traditionally, the injection of capital is mainly from FDI but for past 10+ years, that is declining due to China. Hence the “easy way” is to switch to labour injection.
Still on GDP growth (seemingly the only index for our leaders), of course capital injection could be local/domestic if FDI has decreased. See my post #131 above, points 2 & 3. Why your referred “policy makers” didn’t create the local “growth” environment by pumping money into start-ups, SMEs, etc? Cos this path requires billions if we are talking new industries, new tech, new opportunities/risks. Now, question is where did our billions go? Tied up somewhere, waiting for the upturn? Or saving for a more severe rainy day? Programs like SPUR is just a run to the bottom as someone has mentioned herein. Ask how much is SPUR costing compared with the loss incurred by TH, and presumably GIC? Peanuts?
The run to the bottom (with the FWs) however, have affects our productivity index. Now productivity has 2 components — the output (results) or the input (cost). To boost productivity quick, you can increase one or decrease the other. SPUR and e2i schemes are targeting at PMETs, offering them starting pay of 1200-1600. Are you in the picture still? What additional layers of questioning and answers are you looking for?
156) XiiAoGeNgEnX
Allow me to share a little more of my thoughts regarding the “race to the bottom”
Transport Industry:
This labour intensive industry has over the years used automation to reduce reliance on manpower. Automation has made bus conductors redundant, and thus reduce its manpower needs by half. Each driverless trains carries the equivalent of 20 buses. It is the long term plan to have all trains driverless. And as the rail network expands, the reduced number of buses will correspondingly reduce the number of bus drivers needed.
Cleaning Industry:
HDB has introduced centralised refuse chutes whereby refuse trucks can directly access the trash compactors. This eliminated the need for an army of cleaners to bring the individual trash bins to the bin compound, and eliminated the need for bin compounds.
The way forward is pneumatic waste dispoasal system whereby the waste from the base of the flats are vacumm sucked into underground localised waste incinerators, further reducing the need for the army of rubiish trucks, and truck drivers.
Textile Industry:
This industry has but totally disappeared in Singapore.
Being massively labour intensive, the biz owners have uprooted their garment manufacturing factories to other land with low cost labour.
Sewerage Workers:
This is an non existence industry today which existed up to the early 70s.
The automattd network of sewers has eliminated the need for anybody to do this not too plaesant job of carrying nightsoil.
Telecom Industry:
Telephone exchanges are now eerily quiet places where automated switchboards works 24/7 with no human working inside them for most of the time.
Even you regular telephone operator in the offices no longer exist now with new phone systems that are doing their work.
One would be wise not to choose to race to the bottom with FW in these industries.
”a key challenge is to integrate new citizens and PR into our society”
All should do NS—army camps are great places to bond.
Live together–die together
Otherwise; wait a million years
TRUE Blue are no longer stupid.
@225) kojakbt on August 29th, 2009 12.16 pm
Thks kojakbt for the update — didn’t even open my papers yet!
Firstly, how odd the foreigner policies get answered by NPS! Didn’t know they are the ones interviewing, approving, selecting, talent-hunting, setting limits, integrating, etc… on foreigners.
This official reply read like a secondary student’s essay on the subject — just regurgitating official garbage. It is definitely at odds on emphasis when compared to the PM’s national day rally. Either Ms Quah is talking nonsense or her points are actually low on the government agenda.
————-
“….Our total fertility rate of 1.28 is one of the lowest in the world. The Government will continue to support marriage and parenthood ….”
Of course! Which government will declare that it will NOT continue to support marriage and parenthood? The point is Singapore’s TFR didn’t get to 1.28 overnight. It went thru 1.9, 1.8, 1.7, 1.5 in the 1970s to 2000s. If the govt really support pro-family policies, the problem would have been addressed when the TFR was 1.6-1.5. Tell us, which minister(s) was specifically in charge of looking into this issue over past 10-20 years? In the private sector, if a manager can’t address a declining sales or growth of the company, how long would that manager last? 1-2 years tops?
————-
“…Our ageing population will increase the burden on future generations….”
Our policy makers must be idiots if they didn’t know this basic rule of demography when they implement the Stop-at-2 policy. Assuming Singaporeans were “obedient” and our TFR had hit 2.1 consistently. The population would still aged maintaining at the previous targeted population of 3+ millions; this aging just accelerated when the TFR falls below 2.1. So this statement is about 30 years out of date. Way to go Director Quah!
————-
“…Closing our doors and refusing entry to newcomers will not reserve jobs for citizens. On the contrary, investments and job creation will shrink….”
What is not highlighted is that a country growth can be from external inflow or growth of home-grown industries/markets. We had long tie job creation to foreign MNCs; we should ask why tens of billions are not injected by the govt to up-start new industries, new business, new opportunities LOCALLY. We don’t have natural resources (except the people), so why didn’t we invest heavily in R&D on free resources like solar power? Nobody owns the sun and with a solar industry, we could have develop an energy resource of our own, being less reliance on fuel imports.
————-
“…Our ability to defend ourselves will be compromised. …”
Absolutely NONSENSE, unless the “new-comers” are immediately enlisted into NS and do subsequent reservist. Our available manpower for NS has declined quite drastically over the years and has not been made good with the new-comers. It takes at least 18 years for a new-comer’s son to be eligible to contribute to our defense, by which time that new-comer would have balak kampong to another country, with his 18-year son in tow, no doubt. This only shows that anyone who didn’t serve in NS should just shut up and sit down!
————-
I like to discontinue for the moment to see if I am been moderated AGAIN…(4th time?)
we the ordinary houswives are very tired of the gahmen trying, yet again, to convince us why we need foreign talents, and telling us we must open our arms to welcome, so we could all build a nation together…we know of several hong kong PRs after gaining working experiences here, decided to migrate to the usa, so that their sons would avoid ns, the same goes for an india indian family..sent the son to the usa for the same reason..whereas our local sons, born n bred here in this country which they used to call home but not so sure anymore, have to do their duties to protect and serve this nation that is fast becoming more foreign to them.
so, ms quah, is this what u called building a nation together?
# 90 Jezebella /// The problem is with the policy, not the foreigners. We must recognise what truly is causing problems for us, and point the finger at the right place ///
This is absolutely the truth. I totally agree with your highly compassionate and noble stand.
The PAPies’ policies are the cause of all the sufferings that the locals are encountering.
It’s not the fault of the foreigners, if the PAPies want to bring another million foreigners here. They will come because the bloody PAPies are alllowing them in.
Like Jezebella says, we must “point the finger at the right place” i.e at the lowdown PAPies, and not the foreigners.
Following is my point-by-point rebuttal to Ms Quah’s letter to ST forum:
>> “As Ms Henson acknowledged, Singapore faces a serious population challenge. Our total fertility rate of 1.28 is one of the lowest in the world. The Government will continue to support marriage and parenthood but, realistically, we will still face population and manpower shortfalls.”
Just because one is hungry, would one go to the extreme and gorge on tree barks and polluted water which would kill oneself eventually?
————————————————————–
>> “Our ageing population will increase the burden on future generations. We, therefore, need to attract talent and immigrants, like what many other countries are doing.”
Do you call a PRC beer girl flaunting herself with the old uncles at the kopitiam a talent?
Do you call a PRC bus driver who can’t speak a word of English a talent?
Do you call an Indian programmer who can’t code a program properly a talent?
Do you call a Myanmese sales girl selling cakes in a shop a talent?
Etc.
————————————————————–
>> “Closing our doors and refusing entry to newcomers will not reserve jobs for citizens. On the contrary, investments and job creation will shrink. Essential services like health care, education and transportation will be badly affected. Our ability to defend ourselves will be compromised. This will not benefit Singaporeans at all.”
On the other hand, wanton recruitement of foreigners into Singapore without regard to quality of the foreigners is slowly destroying the fragile fabric of our society!
In fact, if the Govt wants even cheaper foreign “talents” to help draw in investments, why not go recruit African refugees from those refugee camps into Singapore? They do not need salaries. They will already be very happy to find work and are more than willing to work just for food, clean water and a clean sheet everyday!
Imagine 2 million Africans working in Singapore…
————————————————————–
>> “The Government is mindful of the concerns of Singaporeans over foreigners and new immigrants. We have been calibrating the inflows, and adjusting our policies to best meet Singapore’s needs, while maintaining our identity and social fabric.”
Calibrating inflows? By allowing substantial foreigners to come into Singapore for the last 2 years?
See graph: http://i42.tinypic.com/2ecql4j.jpg
Maintaining social fabric? Whole bunch of PRCs coming into Singapore who can’t speak a word of English and happily anchor themselves in the new Chinatown enclave – Geylang!
Who is the Govt trying to kid?
————————————————————–
>> “We are not flooding the country with new immigrants. Indeed, 70 per cent of the foreigners here are transient workers and only 30 per cent are permanent residents (PRs).”
Whether they are called transient workers, PRs or whatever, they are here on Singapore soil competing with genuine true blue Singaporeans on jobs and helping to depress the salaries for everyone here. What is considered low salary for Singaporeans is not low for foreigners cause they would always use their 3rd world countries’ earnings as reference.
And to make things worse, many white-collar FTs are getting into positions which allow them to decide and hire workers. Naturally, they will tend to hire their own kind. Note that there is no foreign quota for most white-collar jobs (ie, salary > $2500). Technically speaking, a foreign investor can set up a company here hiring 100% foreigners with zero Singaporeans. What’s the point of getting this kind of foreign investment? Just to make EDB look good?
————————————————————–
>> “A key challenge is to integrate new citizens and PRs into our society. This will take time and effort on both sides. Our forefathers did not feel Singaporean when they first arrived here. But progressively, they and their children sank roots here, adjusted to one another, and developed a shared Singaporean identity and values. So in time should this new generation of newcomers and their children. The National Integration Council will foster this process.”
I would like to ask the Govt – how many PRs are actually sinking their roots here? From the way I see, many are here to make money in S$ and getting ready to retire back home as millionaires in their own home countries! This is completely different from the time of our forefathers when travelling was very much limited. It is extremely naive to think that children of PRs will sink roots here. If I’m not mistaken, Wong Kan Seng once told parliament that every year, only few hundred PRs would do NS. This is a drop in the ocean if you compare it with the tens of thousands of people getting PRs every year!
————————————————————–
>> “Our citizens’ interests will always be the priority of the Government. The Minister Mentor had reiterated this in his speech at the Tanjong Pagar National Day Celebration Dinner on Aug 13. Citizens enjoy greater subsidies in HDB housing, health care and education, as well as grants under the marriage and parenthood packages and surplus sharing schemes. But the way to ensure a bright future for our children, and for Singapore, is to remain open to new arrivals, and come together to build our nation.”
Luckily I did a study on the said benefits of the so-called “generous” subsidies given to Singaporeans over PRs. The marginally better benefits given to Singaporeans are laughable. In fact, I think it’s an insult to all Singaporeans considering the fact that we need to do NS to protect this country:
http://0000pcj.people.delphiforums.com/downloads/Benefits_of_Singaporean_vs_PR1.htm
————————————————————–
>> Quah Ley Hoon (Ms), Director, National Population Secretariat
Ms Quah, I look forward to one day when you might be replaced by an FT yourself. Let’s see what you would say then…
221) KopitiamApek on August 29th, 2009 10.55 am
hmm….well said.
we agree
Dear hwife@yahoo.com, your comment above truly resonant with me. I packed up and left soon after NS and had been in UK ever since. I gained by degrees and MSc through part time work to support myself through education. There are many educational opportunities in Europe. If one is prepared to work hard, there is a way forward to better oneself. Education is cheap here if one know how to search for it. There are many scolarships, bursaries, grants etc to help students, both local and foreign. Gaining a job here is not as hard as one imagined. I had no problem getting one as the employer was prepared to apply work permit on my behalf. I am willing to assist and advise anybody from Singapore who are prepared to seek a way forward through education. God Bless.
George Lee
I like to continue my rebuke of Ms Quah’s article on the inflow of FT/FWs. Hien TOC kind enough not to moderated me yet but unfortunately kojakbt’s posting at original #225 has been removed. Anyway my views should be taken as in addition to kojakbt’s pt-to-pt above.
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“…..The Government is mindful of the concerns of Singaporeans over foreigners and new immigrants….”
Sure, so concerned that the PM didn’t even bother to mention it ONCE in his ND speeches. In fact, this appears to be the first official view on the subject — from a god-knows who that is not even an MP.
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“….We have been calibrating the inflows, and adjusting our policies to best meet Singapore’s needs, while maintaining our identity and social fabric…..”
Really? What does calibrating means? Monitoring or collecting data and then sit on it? I remember GCT, during his term as PM, was asked about the influx of foreigners THEN. His reply was that he, or nobody knows the best ratio of Singaporeans to foreigners, so he was not able to answer the concern then. More than 10 years have past, and we are still “calibrating”?
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“…..We are not flooding the country with new immigrants. Indeed, 70 per cent of the foreigners here are transient workers and only 30 per cent are permanent residents (PRs)….”
From NPS own data, 35% of people here are foreigners, i.e. 1.69 millions of 4.84 millions. At what level does NPS consider it a flood then? 50%, 60%, 99%? Remember the target is 6.5 millions or so populace. Obviously the low-births of true-S’poreans wouldn’t even maintain 2-3 millions. So guess where the 3.5-4.5m will be from?
‘Transient’ previously defined by NPS means the 757,000 construction workers and maids. I take it to mean these have little chance to become PRs or new citizens, just here to boost the GDP and depress the wages. Since wages are depressed in this mysterious ‘transient’ stage, does it mean once they leave Singapore, our wages will shoot back up?
Ms Quah forgot to mention the non-transient cases — 143,000 on employment pass, 85,000 termed-as-students and about 215,000 unaccounted for. PRs was given as 478,200.
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“….A key challenge is to integrate new citizens and PRs into our society. This will take time and effort on both sides….”
This is NOT the citizens’ problem; it is the policy-makers’ problem! Don’t drag Singaporeans into a “we” vs “them” issue that shouldn’t happen in the first place!
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“….Our forefathers did not feel Singaporean when they first arrived here. But progressively, they and their children sank roots here…….”
Of course they didn’t — Singapore was under British rule then! To have a more accurate comparison, we should ask whether the aboriginals of Australia felt the colonials settlers were taking their land or “integrating” into their society. What about the native Red Indians of America and the subsequent “flood” of “foreigners”?
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“,,,Our citizens’ interests will always be the priority of the Government. The Minister Mentor had reiterated this in his speech at the Tanjong Pagar National Day Celebration Dinner on Aug 13…..”
Really? 43% of citizens didn’t even get a chance to vote in the last election, not even a chance for a show of confidence-no confidence. 34% of voters get 98% representation in parliament — how then can the majority’s interest be in govt mind? Thru the NMPs? Look at all the concerns expressed in blogs & esp. here in TOC. Any one of these ‘citizen’s interests’ got acknowledged by PM Lee in his ND speeches? Any official reply so far to say that males having done NS/Reservist will get some ‘priority’ from the Government?
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“….Citizens enjoy greater subsidies in HDB housing, health care and education, as well as grants under the marriage and parenthood packages and surplus sharing schemes….”
I think kojakbt covered that. To add:
a) Even if S’porean has 1% discount over a foreigner, it will be highlighted as “greater subsidies”.
b) If the marriage and parenthood packages are so great, why our TFR have slipped to 1.28? All air but no bite?
c) The $1500-$3000 relief of the taxable income for NS/Reservist is a joke for many years. Why don’t they ADD $1500-3000 to my taxable income and I don’t have to do reservist that year?
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In short, Ms Quah is just another air-bag for the garhem.
It seemed that many Singapore citizens felt that PR had as much subsidies in many other ways as well. When the economy was growing strongly, there was no problem but with the current recession, with many Singaporean out of a job, the feeling had changed. It is the duty of the government to look after its citizen first. Unless, the current regime had a plan to stay in office regardless of what the poor voters’ suffering. As its stand, there are not many opposition candidates to fill all the wards and so the PAP will return to power by default. Sad but true. I just hoped that it is not too late to correct the mistakes of the past 50 years. If peaceful change cannot be achieved through election, then change will come through other means which may not be disirable. Let us hope that there is enough decent PAP members who think beyond their current greed and spare a thought for the poor citizens.
the pap are really cheapskate. import all the cheapskate ft, making singapore really stinking and very cheapskate.
no wonder, chapskate government will produce cheapskate policies.
BUT WHY ARE THE PAP EARNING MILLION??
232) modern malay/indian/chinese pahlawan
Thank you (or you all?)
225) theforgottongeneration on August 29th, 2009 12.09 pm,
I understand your line of thought, and have no issues agreeing with what you put forward. My original thought was along a different line because I was under the impression you had something else concerning key performance indicators in mind.
I came from the KPI perspective to illustrate that if we don’t hard enough, we don’t need such a big army of MPs and cabinet ministers. 1 way is to open up each of their KPIs list. The number 1 criteria of any KPI for us must be to contribute mainly to Singapore and Singaporeans (not themselves). If each of them were made to declare their KPIs, I am very sure there are some redundant folks around : likened to an incompetent member hiding in an ancient orchestra playing a chinese windpipe during the warring states period. The only difference this time is there is more than 1 such member in the entire team of policy makers, given the money they earn.
KPIs and accountability are interrelated, this partly explains the absence of a culture of accountability in the civil service.
Each MP/ minister is more interested in their personal KPI (their pockets) than country KPIs (if they ever exist). Whichever scheme/ idea they put forward, they stand to gain in overwhelmingly more ways than an ordinary citizen.
225) theforgottongeneration on August 29th, 2009 12.09 pm,
Continued, I am refraining from the putting up the additional list of questions here because the combinations are myriad. A more direct method is for them to list their KPIs and then we are resume this discussion. They should figure things out given their high pays what went wrong, instead of taking the easy route to come through forums to pick on the ideas of others without paying.
KopitiamApek
post #219 on August 29th, 2009 10.27 am
////The cost component of rent vs staffing cost varies in different types of business. The labour intensive businesses are (not exhaustive) F&B, hotels, cleaning, construction, shipyards. For these industries, the rental component is far less than staff cost. For example, a Town Council cleaning contractor do not need to have an expensive retail/ office space to run the biz, most of his cost are made up of cleaners.////
1. hotel need to pay rent?
2. do employing cleaners cost alot? are they not the always & still is among the lowest wage workers?
238) kf on August 29th, 2009 9.41 pm
239) kf on August 29th, 2009 9.54 pm
Good luck, mate. Squeezing KPIs from the ministers? Now, that’s idealistic! No offense!
As a start, try getting them to commit to have a TFR of at least 2.1 over the next 5-10 years.
241) theforgottongeneration on August 29th, 2009 11.30 pm,
You want them to turn hysterical is it :-) TFR was a blunder they created for years (when so many other govts around the world have done better at lower renumerations), then trying to use the FT schemes as a quick bandage.
All KPIs I see so far from them are their personal KPIs (financially over-rewarded beings).
The people who bought houses/HDBs in 1970, 1980s. Within one generation, HDB flats that cost 50,000 to buy became $200,000. Most people that generation suddenly have their assets gone up
think again. do you really make the money if you sell your flat that you have bought for just 50,000 and selling at 200,000??
tell you what. the 200,000 can be gone and into the pocket of the goverment when you woke up the next morning and don’t forget you are living in las vegas now no more kampong days… :(
66) singaporekia on August 26th, 2009 8.58 pm
I agree vote with your brain, that is why I choose PAP the most successful governement in Asia
are you kidding us??? the most success?? maybe to their own
what is walkovers ah? the meaning of it?lol
The biggest problem is that the Ministers and Senior Civil Servants do not face any competition from the foreigners:
1) Foreigners are not allowed to become ministers or senior civil servants
2) Minister’s and Senior civil servants’ children get into top primary schools like Nanyang Primay School. They are guaranted a place – you know I know. Then they tell Singaporeans to be more generous-minded and welcome more foreigners ro compete with them. Ministers should lead by example and send their children to ordinary neighbourhood school, and not just use their mouth only
100) lobo76 on August 27th, 2009 1.32 pm
96) Jezebella on August 27th, 2009 12.04 pm
The $1k plus salary is a lot when converted to their home currency, but remember they are also living in Singapore, and what’s left for them to live on here is probably halved.
really??
they live in domitories where they have the same bed,fan. unlimited water usage and shower for hours and food provided and entertainment tv and they can use the electricity like no body business and for all their salary deduction is only $50 to $100 each. while singapore can pay all that for $100??!! and other way is they stay in container with aircon for some and fan, unlimited usage of water and electricities and they don’t have to pay a single cents for it as company safe cost and provide them in the premises of the company itself and for you singaporeans info nowadays is plasma tv in beer garden and beers are cheap with sexy girls catering on them and cigarette are from contra costing $5 and beedies are cheap too. they earn $2500 and they get to all this just for $100.
foriegn the lowest income is $800 and they pay overall costing of $50 for thier lodging while foreign earning $1800 paying just $100 for their lodging and foreign earning $8k paying just a fix amount of $500 for them and their family who hop in singapore to enjoy life.
while singaporeans?? what is our earning and what is our (singaporeans) living standards exclude the foreign please.thanks.
old lady earn $600 take home pay and what the #@*# can this old lady do with it?
this is slicing their throat off indirectly and singaporeans knowing all this is happening will all singaporeans vote PAP again and support our dearest FATHER LEE KUAN YEW AND HIS SON?
233) george on August 29th, 2009 7.26 pm I had no problem getting one as the employer was prepared to apply work permit on my behalf. I am willing to assist and advise anybody from Singapore who are prepared to seek a way forward through education. God Bless
GEORGE can you do us singaporeans a favour??
fo from our country as we don’t need your advice. yes the boss got no problem applying you permit as they save cost too and less burden to employ singaporeans.
to george
are labelling singaporeans STUPID as we hae still need to study and you had master ahead of us??
then go back your country and try to ask for employment see if you can get a job there with your current pay and if you say you can get a job there we bet it is way too low for you to survive in your own country whereby you have to hop in our country and take a piece of it and advice us?
you must be crazy!!
to 249 modern malay indian chinese pahlawan..eh, i think george at 233 is not FT or FT, but a singaporean who got left singapore after his national service..i think what he only meant to say it is still possible to leave singapore if we are want to..pls read his post again. i don ‘t think he meant to lecuture us singaporeans still stuck in this increasingly foreign country of ours. i think he was offering his help to any singaporeans who would like to consider leaving this country.
i would certainly like any help, for my children, if any is available. my family is feeling the heat in all fronts..education, job prospects, rising costs of basic necessities (these days, fifty dollars don’t buy much..i used to be able to feed my family of four on fifty dollars)
Peter Tan wrote:
“2) Minister’s and Senior civil servants’ children get into top primary schools like Nanyang Primay School. They are guaranted a place – you know I know. Then they tell Singaporeans to be more generous-minded and welcome more foreigners ro compete with them. Ministers should lead by example and send their children to ordinary neighbourhood school, and not just use their mouth only”
I might add:
3) Senior civil servants can get a whole stretch of 5 week leaves to go to France and learn exquisite French cooking…
I doubt any bosses will approve such a long leave in the private sector…
on a side note, not all bosses are happy about males going for their annual ICTs/IPPT/RTs/IPTs…
but by its required by law, if no such law?…