Comments on: MM Lee – population control revisited, 30 years later http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/08/mm-lee-%e2%80%93-population-control-revisited-30-years-later/ Singapore's #1 Socio-Political Site Fri, 25 May 2012 04:31:25 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Patrick http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/08/mm-lee-%e2%80%93-population-control-revisited-30-years-later/comment-page-3/#comment-352524 Patrick Mon, 02 Apr 2012 05:56:34 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=12218#comment-352524 With the high cost in living, government need to offer more favorable incentives to get people to give birth.  However, it must not be across the board or else it will pose another problem especially if a particular people group that contributes to social problem is increasing.  One solution is to have a flexible adjustable approach where the statistics of crimes and inmates based on ethnic group is taken into consideration.  In short, if a group has less people committing crimes, that group can have more money to have more babies.  This will also force affected groups to be more conscience of their ethnic social issues.  It will greatly enhance social stability and promote population increase of healthy groups.   With the high cost in living, government need to offer more favorable incentives to get people to give birth.  However, it must not be across the board or else it will pose another problem especially if a particular people group that contributes to social problem is increasing.  One solution is to have a flexible adjustable approach where the statistics of crimes and inmates based on ethnic group is taken into consideration.  In short, if a group has less people committing crimes, that group can have more money to have more babies.  This will also force affected groups to be more conscience of their ethnic social issues.  It will greatly enhance social stability and promote population increase of healthy groups.
 

]]> By: Name (required) http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/08/mm-lee-%e2%80%93-population-control-revisited-30-years-later/comment-page-3/#comment-222254 Name (required) Mon, 25 Jul 2011 06:58:13 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=12218#comment-222254 Actually, from a secondary school age in 1980s, I really doubt the necessity of the "2 is enough policy", disincentives measures started in 1972. Anyway, I proven right.If only, like the govt, I had access to birthrate statistics (1975 already dropped to 2.1/family!)Surely it doesn't need till 1987 to abandon "Stop-At-Two policy". They should aware that Tokyo/New York/London/Paris these developed country cities then already below birthrate replacement level back then so .....sleepin away or all ministers silent & waiting "the Almighty" finally give in to ego & ended that stupid policy, another 12 yrs after 1975's 2.1 population replacement level? I shook my head at his son "argument" of claiming credits for being "too success" with their "stop at 2 policy" while grinning away in the speech.....it should be an honest/remorseful admittance of incompetent ministers being " too late", "too complacent" & "tardiness" to the affected families then & all 3rd/4th generations Singaporean now!!! There was still plenty of land in 1972 till mid 1980s for new HDB flats. Govt claimed it was neccessary then the policy to curb population growth, then why 1975 (barely 3 yrs it nosedived to 2.1 babies per family), it took this "capable" govt who got the cheek to say praises to it's own grave mistakes another 12 more years to realise it's fault & stop this policy??? This is same as the 1980 started "primary 3 streaming exam", deciding for parents that "their kids at age 9 if/not suitable to go JC in future". They also don't admit nor listened to educationlists opinion & took almost 20 yrs at yr 2000 then reviwed this policy!!! This is the price we paid for JUST one party as govt!!! Actually, from a secondary school age in 1980s, I really doubt the necessity of the “2 is enough policy”, disincentives measures started in 1972. Anyway, I proven right.If only, like the govt, I had access to birthrate statistics (1975 already dropped to 2.1/family!)Surely it doesn’t need till 1987 to abandon “Stop-At-Two policy”. They should aware that Tokyo/New York/London/Paris these developed country cities then already below birthrate replacement level back then so …..sleepin away or all ministers silent & waiting “the Almighty” finally give in to ego & ended that stupid policy, another 12 yrs after 1975′s 2.1 population replacement level?
I shook my head at his son “argument” of claiming credits for being “too success” with their “stop at 2 policy” while grinning away in the speech…..it should be an honest/remorseful admittance of incompetent ministers being ” too late”, “too complacent” & “tardiness” to the affected families then & all 3rd/4th generations Singaporean now!!!

There was still plenty of land in 1972 till mid 1980s for new HDB flats. Govt claimed it was neccessary then the policy to curb population growth, then why 1975 (barely 3 yrs it nosedived to 2.1 babies per family), it took this “capable” govt who got the cheek to say praises to it’s own grave mistakes another 12 more years to realise it’s fault & stop this policy??? This is same as the 1980 started “primary 3 streaming exam”, deciding for parents that “their kids at age 9 if/not suitable to go JC in future”. They also don’t admit nor listened to educationlists opinion & took almost 20 yrs at yr 2000 then reviwed this policy!!! This is the price we paid for JUST one party as govt!!!

]]> By: Singapore’s Dilemma « Filipinos for Life http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/08/mm-lee-%e2%80%93-population-control-revisited-30-years-later/comment-page-3/#comment-217782 Singapore’s Dilemma « Filipinos for Life Mon, 04 Jul 2011 04:31:56 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=12218#comment-217782 [...] Read more here. [...] [...] Read more here. [...]

]]> By: Singapore’s ill-thought population policy | Support Site for The Unemployed http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/08/mm-lee-%e2%80%93-population-control-revisited-30-years-later/comment-page-3/#comment-165480 Singapore’s ill-thought population policy | Support Site for The Unemployed Sat, 23 Oct 2010 21:46:43 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=12218#comment-165480 [...] fertility, although Lucky (among others) has written about it here.  Both the Temasek Review and The Online Citizen wrote about this as [...] [...] fertility, although Lucky (among others) has written about it here.  Both the Temasek Review and The Online Citizen wrote about this as [...]

]]> By: george http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/08/mm-lee-%e2%80%93-population-control-revisited-30-years-later/comment-page-3/#comment-97798 george Thu, 20 Aug 2009 10:31:03 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=12218#comment-97798 The PAP regime seem to think they could switch on or off at will the population level anytime they like. The issues with many young family are living space and family income which are the determinates of whether to start a family or not and how many. Most young couple will settle at two as the cost of bringing up children is so expensive these days. It was true, in the past (1950-60)family with 6 to8 children was fairly common as I myself came from a family of 8 excluding the parent. Cost of living was bearable then but modern Singapore with high housing and food cost really forced young family to decide what they must give up to start a family. My borthers had only have one child each as they had decided they could not affort to have more. It is economic considerations and living space that is holding back family having children. The government have to address these issues to resolve the low birth rate in the country. Just calling the population to have more without addressing those issues is like talking to a wall. The PAP regime seem to think they could switch on or off at will the population level anytime they like. The issues with many young family are living space and family income which are the determinates of whether to start a family or not and how many. Most young couple will settle at two as the cost of bringing up children is so expensive these days. It was true, in the past (1950-60)family with 6 to8 children was fairly common as I myself came from a family of 8 excluding the parent. Cost of living was bearable then but modern Singapore with high housing and food cost really forced young family to decide what they must give up to start a family. My borthers had only have one child each as they had decided they could not affort to have more. It is economic considerations and living space that is holding back family having children. The government have to address these issues to resolve the low birth rate in the country. Just calling the population to have more without addressing those issues is like talking to a wall.

]]> By: Fullofflies http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/08/mm-lee-%e2%80%93-population-control-revisited-30-years-later/comment-page-3/#comment-97277 Fullofflies Wed, 19 Aug 2009 09:24:13 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=12218#comment-97277 You think grand father is stupid meh.. If did not stop at 2..... What will happened, there will be alot of Brigadier Generals, wise alexes ministers and all smart Ladies and Gentlemen producing all of smart and genius babies.... What will happened to grand father 2 sons and 1 daughter and grand sons and grand daughters......????? In a class of stupid AhKong is clever...... In a class of clever Ahsoon is stupid....... Already stop at 2, Ahsoon need AhKong and friends to help in the office..... Imagine what will happened if did'nt stop at 2... Singapore will be the best place in the world to live and stay.... You think grand father is stupid meh..

If did not stop at 2…..

What will happened, there will be alot of Brigadier Generals,
wise alexes ministers and all smart Ladies and Gentlemen
producing all of smart and genius babies….

What will happened to grand father 2 sons and 1 daughter
and grand sons and grand daughters……?????

In a class of stupid AhKong is clever……
In a class of clever Ahsoon is stupid…….

Already stop at 2, Ahsoon need AhKong and friends
to help in the office…..

Imagine what will happened if did’nt stop at 2…

Singapore will be the best place in the world
to live and stay….

]]> By: Fullofflies http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/08/mm-lee-%e2%80%93-population-control-revisited-30-years-later/comment-page-3/#comment-97257 Fullofflies Wed, 19 Aug 2009 08:42:52 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=12218#comment-97257 In Chinese saying Hero Never Cry.... Don't cry for me Singapore.... He never fail in what he do... until that day when he was asked to leave... The opportunity to be the Prime Minister of Malaysia was beyond reach........ The Charming Prince could forsee the future.. To save the King, the Prince banish his best friend....... In Chinese saying Hero Never Cry….

Don’t cry for me Singapore….

He never fail in what he do…
until that day when he was asked to leave…

The opportunity to be the Prime Minister
of Malaysia was beyond reach……..

The Charming Prince could forsee the future..
To save the King, the Prince banish his best
friend…….

]]> By: singaaporen http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/08/mm-lee-%e2%80%93-population-control-revisited-30-years-later/comment-page-3/#comment-96966 singaaporen Tue, 18 Aug 2009 15:50:43 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=12218#comment-96966 singapore has about 478,000 PRs and 3,164,000 Singapore citizens in 2008. the total population of singapore in 2008 was 4,839,400. 4,839,000 - 3,164,000 = 1,675,000 foreigners in singapore 34.61% of our population are foreigners thats about 4 out of 10 people http://www.singstat.gov.sg/stats/themes/people/popnindicators.pdf singapore has about 478,000 PRs and 3,164,000 Singapore citizens in 2008. the total population of singapore in 2008 was 4,839,400.

4,839,000 – 3,164,000 = 1,675,000 foreigners in singapore

34.61% of our population are foreigners thats about 4 out of 10 people

http://www.singstat.gov.sg/stats/themes/people/popnindicators.pdf

]]> By: Integrity http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/08/mm-lee-%e2%80%93-population-control-revisited-30-years-later/comment-page-3/#comment-96899 Integrity Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:08:26 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=12218#comment-96899 Our schools only produce graduate who survives by talking. Take a peep in the research lab apart from DSTA, how many local grad you see? The influx of PRCs engineers depress the wages so much that there is almost no difference in terms of real income between SG and Shanghai. LKY thinks he can get scientific talents to work in sweat shops while depressing wages. He is day dreaming. To point it straight, we are no longer attracting talents, we are getting only china 2nd class graduate, and sooner, we can only attract those who cannot find employment in China. Meanwhile, LKY pander the very best of our local graduate with high pay doing almost nothing in civil service, so as to stiffle a potential supply line of elite for opposition. In the rest of the world, the very best goes into productive sector. Singapore is a pervert system. Our schools only produce graduate who survives by talking.

Take a peep in the research lab apart from DSTA, how many local grad you see?

The influx of PRCs engineers depress the wages so much that there is almost no difference in terms of real income between SG and Shanghai.

LKY thinks he can get scientific talents to work in sweat shops while depressing wages. He is day dreaming.

To point it straight, we are no longer attracting talents, we are getting only china 2nd class graduate, and sooner, we can only attract those who cannot find employment in China.

Meanwhile, LKY pander the very best of our local graduate with high pay doing almost nothing in civil service, so as to stiffle a potential supply line of elite for opposition. In the rest of the world, the very best goes into productive sector. Singapore is a pervert system.

]]> By: Angelina http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/08/mm-lee-%e2%80%93-population-control-revisited-30-years-later/comment-page-3/#comment-96875 Angelina Tue, 18 Aug 2009 13:00:43 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=12218#comment-96875 Supposing there was no 'Stop at 2' and there is no 'shortage' of Singaporeans, do people think we will have enough 'talents' for the Govt's economic progress? Our local grads are jobless while we need more FTs. Why and why did the MM not address this issue too? My guess is the Spore education system is very questionable whether it is truly World Class, and the meritocracy system is highly damaging to building childrens career dreams. Supposing there was no ‘Stop at 2′ and there is no ‘shortage’ of Singaporeans, do people think we will have enough ‘talents’ for the Govt’s economic progress? Our local grads are jobless while we need more FTs. Why and why did the MM not address this issue too? My guess is the Spore education system is very questionable whether it is truly World Class, and the meritocracy system is highly damaging to building childrens career dreams.

]]> By: Fullofflies http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/08/mm-lee-%e2%80%93-population-control-revisited-30-years-later/comment-page-3/#comment-96760 Fullofflies Tue, 18 Aug 2009 08:30:11 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=12218#comment-96760 Don't teach your grand father to suck eggs. 30 to 40 years ago there is no instant coffee or tea. To give birth to baby is easy, like chicken laying eggs, delivery cost only few cents.. specialist doctor never heard off.... Stop at 2, I choose one, because my father had 3. I am now 67 years old, still can tah han one night stand. everyday sit down cross legs, and shake handballs. One son university graduate with a master degree married to a girl also university graduate. Wah sooo happy lah. durian married durian sure got durian grandson...up till today no durian, blue bird, chee ham,,,,, So scold who...???? Last time son listen to father, what father say die die must do, don't do people say bad son.. bo ka see.. So let the old grand father do what he like, and die die must listen, because one day we the sons will be like him......Die Die must follow.... Don’t teach your grand father to suck eggs.

30 to 40 years ago there is no instant coffee or tea.

To give birth to baby is easy, like chicken laying
eggs, delivery cost only few cents.. specialist
doctor never heard off….

Stop at 2, I choose one, because my father had 3.

I am now 67 years old, still can tah han one night stand.
everyday sit down cross legs, and shake handballs.

One son university graduate with a master degree married
to a girl also university graduate.

Wah sooo happy lah. durian married durian sure got durian
grandson…up till today no durian, blue bird, chee ham,,,,,
So scold who…????

Last time son listen to father, what father say die die must
do, don’t do people say bad son.. bo ka see..

So let the old grand father do what he like, and die die
must listen, because one day we the sons will be like
him……Die Die must follow….

]]> By: ahkong http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/08/mm-lee-%e2%80%93-population-control-revisited-30-years-later/comment-page-3/#comment-96618 ahkong Tue, 18 Aug 2009 03:17:18 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=12218#comment-96618 Again MM Lee talks as though it is not his doings. Remember the family control measures then the graduate marries graduate policy then the SDU SDS etc.... imagine a politician doing social engineering what will you get? His skin must be thicker than elephant pretending again not his doing and misjudgement. Anyway we are paying huge sum of salaries to him and his cabinet and parliament for making mistakes after mistakes. Again MM Lee talks as though it is not his doings. Remember the family control measures then the graduate marries graduate policy then the SDU SDS etc…. imagine a politician doing social engineering what will you get? His skin must be thicker than elephant pretending again not his doing and misjudgement. Anyway we are paying huge sum of salaries to him and his cabinet and parliament for making mistakes after mistakes.

]]> By: theforgottongeneration http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/08/mm-lee-%e2%80%93-population-control-revisited-30-years-later/comment-page-3/#comment-96366 theforgottongeneration Mon, 17 Aug 2009 07:41:30 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=12218#comment-96366 @113) but how can creme dela ? on August 16th, 2009 4.46 pm Maybe cos the leader at that time tell Singaporeans to stop at 2 but he himself stopped at 3?! Very confusing, lol? @113) but how can creme dela ? on August 16th, 2009 4.46 pm

Maybe cos the leader at that time tell Singaporeans to stop at 2 but he himself stopped at 3?! Very confusing, lol?

]]> By: very lee http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/08/mm-lee-%e2%80%93-population-control-revisited-30-years-later/comment-page-3/#comment-96320 very lee Mon, 17 Aug 2009 05:54:40 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=12218#comment-96320 Stop at two is right so that there is enough places at school. FT is right so that they can marry our people and bring them overseas to retire when they passed their prime age. Thus less burden for our society and better retirement system overseas. Here is a place to work and earn/save money. Not a place to have family and live your old age. Stop at two is right so that there is enough places at school. FT is right so that they can marry our people and bring them overseas to retire when they passed their prime age. Thus less burden for our society and better retirement system overseas. Here is a place to work and earn/save money. Not a place to have family and live your old age.

]]> By: Jackson http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/08/mm-lee-%e2%80%93-population-control-revisited-30-years-later/comment-page-3/#comment-96195 Jackson Mon, 17 Aug 2009 01:11:49 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=12218#comment-96195 LKY thinks he's god, can control population, hw many children n old pple, but is actually is the reverse. LKY thinks he’s god, can control population, hw many children n old pple, but is actually is the reverse.

]]> By: old citizen http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/08/mm-lee-%e2%80%93-population-control-revisited-30-years-later/comment-page-3/#comment-96188 old citizen Mon, 17 Aug 2009 00:36:20 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=12218#comment-96188 In his message he urges Singaporean to ..."treat new citizen as equal".... I find it very difficult to bring myself up to be equal to them. So how to treat them as equal? In his message he urges Singaporean to …”treat new citizen as equal”….

I find it very difficult to bring myself up to be equal to them. So how to treat them as equal?

]]> By: prettyplace http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/08/mm-lee-%e2%80%93-population-control-revisited-30-years-later/comment-page-3/#comment-96144 prettyplace Sun, 16 Aug 2009 18:11:17 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=12218#comment-96144 I had a chat in Melbourne with friends about the ordeal I go through in ordering food at stalls in Singapore....they had lived here before... We all had a good laugh.... Singaporeans are going to be a laughing stock ..and thanks to PAP policies. It's time to boot them out and most of the PAP guys out. It's the ballot box people wake up....or your children will be the ones to suffer. I had a chat in Melbourne with friends about the ordeal I go through in ordering food at stalls in Singapore….they had lived here before…
We all had a good laugh….

Singaporeans are going to be a laughing stock ..and thanks to PAP policies.

It’s time to boot them out and most of the PAP guys out.
It’s the ballot box people wake up….or your children will be the ones to suffer.

]]> By: mice is nice http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/08/mm-lee-%e2%80%93-population-control-revisited-30-years-later/comment-page-3/#comment-96123 mice is nice Sun, 16 Aug 2009 17:03:00 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=12218#comment-96123 biggest team = strongest team? productive anot leh? 10 men do 11 -12 men job? 100% commitment & responsibility? lol... biggest team = strongest team?

productive anot leh?

10 men do 11 -12 men job? 100% commitment & responsibility?

lol…

]]> By: Ahgong http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/08/mm-lee-%e2%80%93-population-control-revisited-30-years-later/comment-page-3/#comment-96117 Ahgong Sun, 16 Aug 2009 16:43:38 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=12218#comment-96117 Well, in chinese , we called this kind of article as " horse back cannon". If the old man is so powderful, long time back he always united malaya and would not shed tears on our independence day. He aren't no prophet. In decision making/ info science, we know that decision always has to be made in the absence of data or 100% intel. Someone just has to do the decision making, regardless of outcome may or may not be happy for all people. Well, in chinese , we called this kind of article as ” horse back cannon”.

If the old man is so powderful, long time back he always united malaya and would not shed tears on our independence day. He aren’t no prophet.

In decision making/ info science, we know that decision always has to be made in the absence of data or 100% intel. Someone just has to do the decision making, regardless of outcome may or may not be happy for all people.

]]> By: Playboy_Rick http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/08/mm-lee-%e2%80%93-population-control-revisited-30-years-later/comment-page-3/#comment-96114 Playboy_Rick Sun, 16 Aug 2009 16:28:11 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=12218#comment-96114 Got this from TKL blog. It shows the benefit of Sinkaporean (i know...a pun) vs PR. http://0000pcj.people.delphiforums.com/downloads/Benefits_of_Singaporean_vs_PR1.htm For you to digest Got this from TKL blog. It shows the benefit of Sinkaporean (i know…a pun) vs PR.

http://0000pcj.people.delphiforums.com/downloads/Benefits_of_Singaporean_vs_PR1.htm

For you to digest

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