Main Stories, Top Story - Written on Wednesday, August 19, 2009 10:52 - 139 Comments
NMP Viswa Sadasivan: “Let us take a chance on our people, on ourselves.”
Nominated Member of Parliament, Mr Viswa Sadasivan, made his maiden Parliamentary speech in yesterday’s sitting of the House. He moved a Parliamentary motion in which he urged: “
“That this House reaffirms its commitment to the nation building tenets as enshrined in the National Pledge when debating national policies, especially economic policies.”
You can read the full text of his speech here. Here are some excerpts:
Read our earlier write-up on Mr Viswa’s talk on politics in Singapore: Crisis of leadership in S’pore.
Politics
Accountability requires the government to go beyond lip-service in addressing the call for greater democracy, civil liberties and choices. In the Political arena – a more level playing field especially in the management of elections and media coverage. What is increasingly demanded is fairness and justice, not just in form but substance. Yes, it is ridiculous to expect the incumbent party in government to facilitate the opposition parties to win more seats in Parliament.
But what is asked for is that the government desist from making it difficult in an unfair and undemocratic manner for the opposition to gain success – through last minute changes in electoral boundaries, or a lack of media coverage or what can sometimes be seen as biased coverage. In my view, it is the duty of a responsible government to help evolve a political climate that encourages greater interest and participation from the people. If not, people are likely to feel increasingly alienated and disenfranchised resulting in apathy and, worse, cynicism. I fear this is already happening.
New Media
But thanks to the advent of the internet and new media, there appears to be a resurgence of interest in the people to engage in debate in issues. I sense there is a growing sense of restlessness and even helplessness with what is viewed as a media that is aligned with the government.
Many in this group are now vacillating towards cyberspace, seeking out and contributing contrary viewpoints, often explicitly anti-establishment. This is gaining momentum, given the ubiquitous nature of the internet, and the growing number of net savvy Singaporeans and PRs. While some illuminating and thought provoking ideas are raised in the cyber sites, it is not uncommon to find misinformation and at times, I suspect, even disinformation circulating. The tone can be angry and sometimes downright caustic seasoned with a good doze of vulgarities!
What is giving this new ‘movement’ life and momentum is essentially the perception that the mainstream media tows the government’s line because it is required to. We can sit here and debate whether or not this is true. But for me that is not what is critical. What is important is for us to acknowledge that there is a challenge here – the mainstream media needs to gain greater credibility in the eyes of the people, and must not be seen as functioning to serve the interest of the establishment. The current situation is certainly not healthy for the government or the country as it nurtures a “them versus us” climate that could become unnecessarily adversarial.
Happiness and GDP
[L]et us now evaluate whether our economic policies have resulted in or at least contributed to happiness. GDP has always been a key indicator of economic performance. Our per capita GDP has risen exponentionally over the past 44 years. According to figures from the department of statistics, in Sing dollar and nominal terms, Singapore’s per capita GDP grew from $1, 567 in 1965 to $53, 192 in 2008, certainly one of the highest in the world. Without doubt, this is something we should be proud of and thank the PAP government for.
But when we look closer at what constitutes the GDP, there is cause for concern. According to data, profits take about 46% of Singapore’s GDP, which according to economists I spoke to, is extremely high compared to other developed economies. And from what I understand, half of this high profit share goes to the coffers of foreign-owned companies with operations here. What is left in the GDP pie to directly benefit Singaporeans is therefore a relatively small amount. According to a recent article in the Edge by economist Manu Bhaskaran, and I quote: “…This could be why even though Singapore’s per capita GDP is roughly 11% higher than Hong Kong’s, our per capita consumption is about 21% lower that Hong Kong’s. If we take per capita consumption as a better indicator of welfare, then simply going for high growth per se does not guarantee that we will achieve the best possible welfare outcome for Singaporeans….” Unquote.
Government’s responsibility to the less well-off
Yes, we don’t want to become a welfare state. But what has that got to do with an elected government’s responsibility to provide the basic needs of a small group of citizens who, it has been established, cannot fend for themselves because of illness or disability. The government’s response to calls for increasing Public Assistance grants has been that we should avoid creating a dependency on handouts which in turn could become a disincentive for working for a living. As such, the government’s view has been to provide a very basic level of assistance which will be supplemented by what the community and grassroots organisations can provide. Yes, this is possible, but why should it be an expectation imposed on them, when government does appear to be in a strong enough financial position to provide the necessary assistance directly.
Even if we talk about doubling the Public Assistance for a 4 member family from $950 per month by $1,000 – it would amount to $36 million to benefit 3,000 families or 12,000 needy Singaporeans for a whole year! Our GDP for 2008 was $257 billion and Foreign Reserves officially estimated to be in excess of $250 billion. It is not just about providing for their welfare per se, it is about allowing them a measure of dignity as they struggle with poverty. It is about ensuring their children get good, nutritious meals and a decent level of comfort and security at home to have a decent chance at doing well in school and making it in life. It is a small investment in happiness and dignity for our citizens. I do hope the government will relent on this issue. I am confident that this is something most Singaporeans desire.
Political participation
From the late 1960s there were stringent rules that discouraged active political activism, even participation. Detention of political activists under the ISA and media controls, whether real or perceived, rightful or not, created a climate of fear that inhibited political participation. Over years, in my view, this crystalised into a political culture of apathy and disinterest. This in turn exacerbated an already fragile sense of rootedness and a lack of patriotism. Our senior political leaders have been highlighting the challenges they have been facing in persuading the best and brightest to serve in political leadership, and why salaries had to be significantly high to help them make the decision to come on board. This situation does not augur well for Singapore on many fronts – it poses problems in succession planning, retards socio-political resilience and could result in a brain drain the moment we face a serious enough crisis.
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Picture from Channel NewsAsia.
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139 Comments
I TOTALLY AGREE with Viswa Sadasivan had to say, this is the kind of MP we need, similar to SKH and SL, they speak on behalf of the people. While the PAP ministers and MPs pay lip service to almost anythng, how can we ever count on them to do anything for us?
The profits mentioned gone to Government and GLCs, and very little for citizens. And the government keeps saying we are reliant on them? How can this be true? Singapore gov is good at marketing themselves and created a lot of supporting statistics and using the media to promote. So it is kinda dificult for average citizens to decipher what is real.
Yes – most of us, the educated bunch who is getting older and wiser, can now see through the mist and know the truth. We get disillusioned, unfair, cynical and angry with the local politics. The level playing field for politics is honestly worst than Malaysis and Indonesia, which we keep calling them third world. The third world democracy is more democractic than Singapore, and that is an insult. We, Singaporeans are now matured and wiser, we are not hooligans or rioters, so there is no need for an authoritarian gov to guide us.
What we want is a honest, fair, equality for anyone, irregardless of race and religion. We want the gov to be fair and square and compassionate and ensure citizens are not shortchanged and live a better life.
But we have seen now is THEY keep everything and rewards for themselves, while pushing citizens to work, slog harder and accept low pay.And worst of all, now most young citizens cannot afford public housing as they decided providing a basic shelter is no longer a promise but making $$$ is number 1 priority.
And there is no sense of freedom and equality and fairness and justice for a developed country like Singapore. This is why we choose to air our grievances online and remain cynical to almost anything from them.
And I dont see Viswa Sadasivan staying more than 1 term for telling the truth but I applaud this man for his courage.
Thumbs up, Viswa! You said it like it is.
Thumbs up! Better than the lousy opposition MPs who were unceremoniously dismissed by Tharman yesterday. $14,000 per month has infected the brains and guts of Low TK, SL and Chiam!
Well done, Viswa! You put all the elected MPs (PAP and PAP-approved) to SHAME!
Who Nominated this guy ?
staying together, moving ahead
good point. MP Yu Foo coountered that having high PA would make it untenable for the workers with lower wages.
I think she is barking up the wrong tree. It is about time we stop this exploitattion of poor workers and implement a minimum wage system.
We are probably the ONLY developed country in the world without a min wage system for its citizens….
Confirm Strait Times & MSM will block his view from the public.
I have a question regarding 1st world and GDP.
What qualifies quantitatively a country as having reached 1st world?
GDP?
In this crisis, the growth was negative.
Does this affect the 1st world status?
Is singapore 1st world? according to what?
Do majority 1st world citizens question?
In this aspect are we 1st world?
Undergrads, they think a lot right?
Do they publicly or even just privately question issues like the transparency of our reserves? Why not? From now till ETERNITY? This does not affect them in future? sure ?
So, i like to know what is 1st world all about.
Is this a small group or a growing number that is increasing by a few folds?
Stats would be good…. but if they are not available, then HUSTON we have a problem!!
“But what has that got to do with an elected government’s responsibility to provide the basic needs of a SMALL group of citizens who, it has been established, cannot fend for themselves because of illness or disability”.
The first shot is always the best. Didn’t we have some good shots from the last batch of now dismissed NMPs? What we need to see is translation into actions. Then I will be convinced. Anyway, good luck to this guy…wondering how long he will/can prevailed?
My personal take is that the increased nos. of NMPs is to allow the current highly paid MPs to take more time off, leaving the “representation” in parliament to these newbies. More voicing of opinions on camera to show views are being aired, but in reality, no actions means no change. Go ahead, prove me wrong. Give us a firm deadline on any one of the points that he raised.
He’s a NMP he can’t vote or even suggest a policy, all he can do is voice opposing or even considered thoughts and hope that someone in the Govt. is willing to consider what he has suggested.
It’s all smoke to make Parliament look good, it will not change a thing unless the Govt. wants it too, or unless people actually, first run against PAP members and secondly people actually vote for them.
hi mmm #10,
You are either mis-informed or dis-informed. NMPs can vote and suggest policies. Moreover, it is fallacy to think that policy suggestions can only be made in Parliament. The advantage of being NMPs is one’s proximity to senior PAP leaders where one can make suggestions outside parliamentary debate. This include making policy suggestions to fellow MPs during private dinner parties at home.
Would people find less need to vote for opposition having these NMP? Who nominated these in the 1st place?
Do you ever wonder?
Why he say now all these and not earlier given HLP is open everyday?
Hi Babu #13,
Viswa was the Chairman of the Political Development Feedback Group.
Besides, if you can tell straight into PAP’s face in Parliament, why do it at HLP?
Finally, there is someone new in the NMP scheme that speaks the voice of truth, thank you Mr Viswa Sadasivan, we will be keeping a lookout for you…
however, even if he is right and constructive…learning disability within some of our dear leaders such as LHH and LSS will mean that it is for naught
Be careful NCMP came in by the Parliament back Door. They are been design by the famiLEE government to try steal yor Right to Vote. If they perform well
the next House Bill will confiscate your Right. They has tries many ways like the GRC, Elected President,NCMP more try be coming up. U Wait & See.
Stupid S’porean
Oxford Dude #11, you are right they can vote except if the motion involves public funds…and unfortunately getting the Govt to spend money for the poor involves those very funds :-(
16)
“Stupid S’porean”, i am not sure whether to agree or disagree to that
Please implement it.
all the good pointers are being asked now, whether the govt is doing anything about it is all together another issue. Whether is new NMP is genuinely doing it for the sake of singaporeans or is he being planted there for the intention of winning over the citizens trust, no one really knows. The best way is for all present alternative parties to continue and keep pressing on these good pointers to be realised and action by the govt before things on the ground get worse, at least till next GE, then we will know whether things are better off. But then again, even though ground situation get or should get better is one thing, but whether they will stay after the election or will be reversed back is the main problem with the ruling elites, based on past results.
“Be careful NCMP came in by the Parliament back Door. They are been design by the famiLEE government to try steal yor Right to Vote. If they perform well.”
well, who is going to complain if more like Viswa are coming in. when it comes to election, you still need to do what you need to do even if they perform well – e.g two eggs with one stone.
If we the People do not speak up for those who dare not voice up or have less knowledge to even utter or comment,
then who Will?
As simple as that.
Its TIME , to do something for myself and indirectly for the others.
I support what Viswa Sadasivan had said in parliament. Well said.
But will the govt listen? And if they do, will they take it seriously and do something about it? As much as they would like us to believe, I don’t think so.
All govt the world over will only take the citizens’ views seriously when they stand a chance of being kicked out of govt. And it is not going to happen here in the foreseeable future when they have a 82-2 margin. NMPs and NCMPs are just noise without any teeth and can be ignored.
If we really want the govt to take our feedback seriously, put 35-40 oppositions in parliament. Maybe then our interest will be better served.
Viswa Sadasivan said: If not, people are likely to feel increasingly alienated and disenfranchised resulting in apathy and, worse, cynicism. I fear this is already happening.
From the look of the responses so far in this thread, I can’t help agreeing with Viswa. This thread is hijacked by cynicism.
#23, I think no need 30-40 opposition seats.
Look at Sylvia Lim, she is one of the top speakers in terms of number of speeches or issues raised. The other is SKH.
So, I foresee only need at least 5 more. That will get the ball rolling.
But 1st, the opposition need a break as in act of the ultima.
can TOC chronicle Viswa Sadasivan’s “evolution” pathway from now till the future so as to illustrate that pathway that every state stamped “independent” or “intellectual” goes thorugh when they enter Singapore political scene?
stage 1: hear me loud and clear…
stage 2: ouch..i wont say that… OR gee thanks… no i wont say that….
stage 3: ouch ouch.. no i didnt say that at all ever… OR holy gee thanks… why will i ever say that…
stage 4: yes sir yes sir three bags fool
this chap looks familiar…didn’t he used to read the news on some local channel? i don’t watch the local news anymore, or even read the ST anymore..they don’t report the truths.
i can only pray he can do some good for us commoners, but there is no guarantee he will not get booted out if he speaks or asks too much! look what happened to that siew chap? did i get the name wrong…sorri if i did, mr ex nmp, but u did well, u asked questions the other nmps didn’t dare, sorri u got booted out cos of that.
Good points but what he spoke on is nothing that the government is unaware of.
There is simply no urgent need to change the status quo. It doesn’t matter that Singaporeans are disillusioned and apathetic because the government can import more foreigners, grant more PRs and citizenship to take our places. All the elites need are good contented workers which fuel the economy and help them earn money. These workers can be of any nationality. If they can’t brainwash Singaporeans to be contented, they will replace us.
Does anyone know whether the motion was endorsed by the pappies or was it shot down?
If it was passed, will it bring about change for the betterment of Singaporeans? Or is it just mouth talk and balls shiok again?
good start..if he also walk the talk…that will be great! Hope he pushes the envelope further!
Are We Really Cattle?
By: Peter Chamberlin
Have we really become “We the sheeple,” or are we still human beings? The planet is dying under the thrall of a small minority of men who think of the rest of the human race as “cattle,” livestock for them to buy and sell.
http://therearenosunglasses.wordpress.com/2009/08/19/are-we-really-cattle/
NMP scheme is one which allows people to make noise here and there.
But they do not have any teeth to make any substantive changes.
So it is pretty much like a oratorical practice and a show . entertaining? Perhaps. Life changing ? aw come on !!
IF we decide to change the system, nobody can do it for us except ourselves. Do your part in the ballot box.
stage 1: eh! got serial numberlah
stage 2: hah, someone can take the risk
stage 3: oklah still can survive what?
stage 4: Another victory for the thunder
I look forward to his future career and hope that he does not disappoint.
Hi all,
NMP Viswa is a long time political critic. He was the Chairman of the Political Development Feedback Group from 1994 to 2004. TOC even has a piece on him before his maiden parliamentary speech in May 2008.
http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/05/singapores-crisis-of-leadership/
Well said MR Viswa you have brought up in parliment exactly what i was thinking on how singapore need to revamp in order to survive for the next 50 years
what is the strategic role of this NMP?
he was nominated by …..
So, what’s up doc?
I am sure he did not worked for ISA before although he was in media before right?
Just curious can or not?
i mean Chua LH or Chua MH or someone worked in high clearance area before entering into Media industry right?
i very kaypoh and curious only can ask?
while browsing the net, found this info about the guy:
http://www.strategicmoves.com.sg/team_viswa.asp
” As Senior Controller, he also planned and directed coverage of Parliamentary reports and General Elections, and has interviewed business and political leaders such as Singapore’s (then) Prime Minister Lee Kuan Yew and the first Prime Minister of Malaysia, the late Tungku Abdul Rahman. ”
wow!
whats’ up doc!?
Do you think a leopard can change its spots? Let’s just skin the cat
Agree with some here that as long as there is no change, what is the point of his voicing up?
Already people in TOC are voicing up.
What is the Diff?
If voicing alternative views is wrong or not necessary, why is NMP implemented?
Thus, I see that Alternative View is needed based on the NMP system.
But do Youths dare to voice up at Hong Lim?
Other than a few from TOC, SDP and a few others, where are all the law undergrads? I assume these can talk better than the layman and are highly opinionated? Our future lawyers.
“14) Oxford Dude on August 19th, 2009 12.57 pm Hi Babu #13,
Viswa was the Chairman of the Political Development Feedback Group.
Besides, if you can tell straight into PAP’s face in Parliament, why do it at HLP?
”
I meant why did he NOT voice up the same at HLP BEFORE the nomination?
Why voice up AFTER the nomination?
Care to share with me WHO Nominated him?
Do you know?
We may not know who nominated or what is the reason he was put there, etc. However,it is a wake up call for all true blue Singaporeans. If we cannot do it at least appreciate someone who could. What is the worsy case scenario? It got the old man shaken up or was it acting!
The National Day Rally was a deviation from the real issue at hand, the MM’s address on “racial balance” and the lost of jobs to foreigners.
Where is this all going?
Well well, even our dear MM has to come out and speak…
“”We’re here today, we have this building, we have all these facilities, and all around us is evidence of our accountability. Without being accountable, we would not have been re-elected and there would have been no Singapore of today.” ”
I really “like” the last phrase…where is the accountability that he speaks? especially with TH and GIC…if it is based on accountability, will they have got re-elected? he is just assuming that…
I would like to know did Viswa Cow under the heavy weight of the emperor? What do you guys think?
@45) Yamamoto on August 19th, 2009 11.23 pm
How to account for the 44% walkovers in elections? In fact the votes were 44% walkovers, 34% PAP, 17% opposition and balance invalids. So re-election is by 34% giving 98% seats. This is call accountability? I think the ‘66% mandate’ has been echoed so many times that they believed in it themselves.
Viswa has just been grilled by Lee Kuan Yew personally. If Lee Kuan Yew feels a need to clarify Viswa, it goes to show there is a lot of substance in Viswa’s speech.
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/449862/1/.html
Viswa replied, “I was highlighting a lingering perception that I sensed on the ground that politically it’s not a level playing field, and if you don’t address this, there’ll be growing cynicism, especially among our youth, who choose to express their displeasure through angry postings on the Net, which is not useful.”
ideally, NMP Viswa Sadasivan should tag team with Siew KH!!!
powerful ah!! :)
Pls lah. MM rule. Period
Vis was clever to say, I sense.
MM position was.. I insist
If Vis had been more affirmative, he would not have lasted his term
Hi Take2,
I actually wonder if LKY will literally survive his term as MP/MM. His speech is slurred and he looks tired. DIE! DIE! DIE!
hi Oxford Dude,
the countdown clock at City Hall is ticking away….
In the end, Straits Times succumbed to the party line:
Just read the HEADLINE!!!
PAP UPHOLDS PLEDGE IDEALS
19 August 2009. Straits Times.
At least, this exercise has revealed that our parliamentarians ARE DIVIDED on the definition of justice, equality, democracy and accountability. So much for LHL’s reform which he first mooted at the last PAP Annual Conference.
West Coast GRC MP Ho Geok Choo was the ultimate blame-shifter.
In response to NMP Viswa, she said that the unpatriotic sentiments of youths do not reflect the failure of the government in keeping to the tenets of the pledge.
According to her, this situation is a product of passage of time rather than the government’s lack of commitment.
Well said Mr Viswa Sadasivan! It seems that our NMPs are willing to speak out against the PAP government afterall.
Well, I suppose this new article nullifies the previous criticism that our NMPs are nothing but running dogs for the PAP.
http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/07/non-partisan-nmps-did-we-miss-something/
Looks like this is one step in the right direction. :)
XiiAoGeNgEnX,
why so happy so fast ? Isn’t Siew speak for the people too ? You means all it takes is just one NMP’s remark and you conclude they speak up for the people ?
Isn’t some MP speak for the people too ?
It is not one or two MP/NMPs that speak up that really matter , it is the majority of them that speak up that really matter.
If you have 2 MPs out of 82 Pappy MP speak up for the people but still majority of MPs vote for whatever their master dish out, will you conclude that on the whole they speak up for people ?
It is the general populace of the MP/NMPs that count not just one or two.
“Looks like this is one step in the right direction.”
It will always be one step in the right direction, today, tomorrow and in the future. Seriously, without the power to vote these NMP can talk all the cow they want because to the Pappy, it is just “noise”.
Anyway, LHL will even agree with you that it is one step in the right direction, always will be. No one will dispute them. Who to say that they are wrong anyway ?
looks like you still need good’o MM Lee to sort’em out. We need more of these debates…
57) Daniel on August 20th, 2009 7.52 am
If you have 2 MPs out of 82 Pappy MP speak up for the people but still majority of MPs vote for whatever their master dish out, will you conclude that on the whole they speak up for people ?
Dear Daniel,
I bring your attention to “http://www.wp.sg/wordpress/2009/03/hota-amendment-bill/”.
In particular, the 3rd last paragraph, where i quote “As such, we do not believe it is wise for Parliament to approve the current provision and leave the compensation framework details to be worked out later administratively. ”
I also bring your attention to http://www.parliament.gov.sg/Publications/votes_11thParl.htm
If you check the votes on the HOTA ammendment, (click on the 24th March 09 article) it says “Mr Christopher De Souza (Member for Holland-Bukit Timah) dissenting; Mdm Halimah Yacob (Member for Jurong), Ms Sylvia Lim (Non-Constituency Member), Mr Low Thia Khiang (Member for Hougang) and Ms Denise Phua Lay Peng (Member for Jalan Besar) abstaining.”
If the Opposition MPs did not believe that “it is wise for Parliament to approve the current provision”, why then did they abstain from the vote? It’s as good as accepting “whatever their master dish out”.
One of my Oppo friends once told me, “if we wanted silent MPs, we might as well vote PAP. At least we get our lift upgrading!”
@57) Daniel on August 20th, 2009 7.52 am
Agree with Daniel here. A sudden ripple in a sea of apathy and everyone expects a tsuinami.
Lets see how long this Viswa can tahan, I mean hats off to him if this performance is not pre-staged. The previous lot of NMPs and even some newer MPs showed initial sparks of idealism but after a while just fizzle off. Even the current President had a good initial burst of energy if I recall, i.e. lots of camera times here & there when first started.
Anyway, there are stock, non-accounting tactics to deal with such “hyper” members of parliament — just move the OB markers lah (aka OTC case), or prospect of unemployment (aka ex-NMP Siew KH case). A president can get shot down, what is a NMP? Yes, pls don’t expect a tsuinami soon. We are not a nation yet, remember?
This is a poignant reminder of what it means to be Singaporean – I myself have marvelled at how often Singaporeans believe they are better off when in truth, all it takes is a trip overseas to know that our system is far from perfect. I was also suprised to learn that preferential treatment is given to Malays and whatsmore, was declared so overtly – I always knew this to be the case, but honestly, if you were a Malay, dont you feel the least bit insulted that you need “help” and that you cant make it on your own? This also raises the other question of, why only them? What about less privilaged Indians and Chinese?
The issue is not the fact that someone is given special tratment – its that the rich get richer and the poor just vanish before our eyes…we ignore them, we dont think about them, we refuse to acknowldege that Singapore has an elitist class that is riding on the backs of the middle class and lower class
I was recently observing the news regarding president scholars – aside from the fact that there was no minority representation, I noted that most of these kids come form fairly privilaged backgrounds already – they went to the best schools, and had parents who could afford to indulge their every educational needs – I was just wondering what the purpose was of awarding scholarship to individuals who can clearly afford it – why not just give them an award and get them to work for the public service if that is what they feel their calling is? No, they prob will not do it because it is not monetarily worth it – in truth, with the scholarship, they are set for life – they join the elites….
I was also suprised to note that a reputed CEO, who was in charge of one of the largest mining companies in the world, and who has a proven track record, decidedto leave after 5 months. I note his depature with great suspicion, and one can only wonder what he must have seen and/or tried to implement in order to get Temasek in line – and it was also suprising that power is still in the hands of one elite family…
I believe our system is far better than the alternative as we see happening in Myanmar, or even Malaysia, where racial and religious disharmomy was ignored till the event lead to cascade of resentment and violence. However, we are not far off from such resentment destroying the future of Singapore i.e. we will see more and more naturally born SIngaporeans, with talent, leaving because they feel unhappy with the lack of political freedom, given the controlling nature of the PAP as well as the lack of opportunity and transparency. Singapore is bigger than the personal opinions/ideals of MM (who still has a very 60’s mentality) and LHL who want to force her to conform to their opinion
Thus, my dear ministers, if such issues are not discussed and raised, the elites never know what people on the ground are feeling – Thus, thank you NMP Viswa for raising this issue – but know that nothing you say will have any effect as long as the PAP continues with its “old-school” thinking that Singaporeans are incapable of living without their constant intervention – I also agree with some of the members of this forum, in that you are in for 1 term at most, after which it is likely your name will not come up for re-nomination…
I went to Parliament to listen to Viswa’s speech. I hope that his concerns will not be proven right decades down the road. But from the responses of the PAP MPs in Parliament, I fear that we are walking down that road already.
XiiAoGeNgEnX,
“If the Opposition MPs did not believe that “it is wise for Parliament to approve the current provision”, why then did they abstain from the vote? It’s as good as accepting “whatever their master dish out”.”
My answer to you is very simple.
What does one person vote out of 84 votes make any difference ? And what can it show anyway, and will it change anything or mean anything to most sensible people ? The opp party can make all the vote they want, and it is still one vote, okay give 2 votes because CST, and perhaps maybe 2 Pappies MP (etc Lily Neo)
4/84 = 4.76% vote against PAPPY policies (which I see is the best case. Remember all votes of MPs are confidential and with confidentiality give them the discretion for self-interest). Will it worth the hassle and effort to vote then ? Will it achieve any significant objective for opp party anyway ?
So at the end of the day, does it really matter if they vote against the Pappy if it is sure lose ?
The document that you point out do doesn’t imply anything or show anything worthy of significance, it is just show same “business as usual” routine for a vote.
Smart People will only challenge for a vote if it bring concrete result with 50/50 winning chance just like having by-election when MP dies with respect to sentiment on the ground. It will be best to direct resource if only the battle has a chance to win. Fighting a SURE LOSE BATTLE is still “as good as accepting “whatever their master dish out”.
So if you ever ask isn’t Dr Chee stupid enough to challenge the pappy when he is sure to lose. My answer is that Dr chee’s objective to create awareness and publicity of Pappy’s oppression, and he did achieve his objectives well in the internet, and for that he did not lose. He did win very big because when the old fart pass away, you can be sure that future book written on Singapore politics will mention Dr Chee than rest of current opp party due to his unprecedented sacrifice.
No doubt each opp party has its own strategy but the one that differentiate itself by not playing with a “sure-kena-eaten” rule will be remembered in history more.
XiiAoGeNgEnX,
if you agree that our parliament is a joke in term of pappy generally giving nonsense, insult people’s intelligence and “MOVING ON”, I do not see why we should take the parliament and their document seriously anyway.
Well-said Viswa.
folks, u all think so simplistically huh?
M_M side stepped all other issues and push towards portraying Sadasivan trying to take away Malay previleges. The paper supported this today!
The MPs should be the raising all these issues instead – and they aren’t
If NMP adds value, it means the MPs are “sleeping”. Please try to dis-prove my theory.
If MPs are “voicing” out singaporeans’ concern, then you don’t need NMP to do it. If NMP is voicing out singaporeans’ concerns, then the MPs are practically a “useless” lot.
True blue Singaporean should be asking why the MPs they voted into the parliment are not doing their job? – BTW, these MPs are not free or cheap.
[i]58) koyomin on August 20th, 2009 8.13 am
looks like you still need good’o MM Lee to sort’em out. We need more of these debates…
[/i]
is this true
rumoured that everytime the prime minister take a leak the ole man had to hold his pants.is this the way the ole man debate to the prime minister on a 4 eyes meetin?
Referring to #2, Mr Cynical James,
Quote
Yes – most of us, the educated bunch who is getting older and wiser, can now see through the mist and know the truth. We get disillusioned, unfair, cynical and angry with the local politics. The level playing field for politics is honestly worst than Malaysis and Indonesia, which we keep calling them third world. The third world democracy is more democractic than Singapore, and that is an insult. We, Singaporeans are now matured and wiser, we are not hooligans or rioters, so there is no need for an authoritarian gov to guide us.
Un-quote
This is well said.
The pap knows this well and they are particularly fearful of losing in a fully contested GE.
So they use plots.such as GRC as early as 1984. ( That is our MM’s brain child, he has foresights but use it for self benefits
GRC brings the Malay votes to pap
GRC brings in un-winnable candidates to Parliament from back-door, some are appointed as Minister later, such as Mah Bow Tan, these ministers are unable to convince voters as candidates, how would they bother to convince citizen once they have the POWER in hands ?
Tharma is no exception, he is PM Lee’s close confidant, a defender for the secrecy of Temasek’s operation, but he has not forgotten or simply ignore, the sources of fund that Temasek used to invest and lost big time , is from the people of Singapore.
pap won’t let loose the control, for they don’t only got 28% of all eligible votes in 2006 GE, a minority govt acting to resist majority’s will.
The SPH is a mouth piece of govt, they monopolized the local press, will they open to competition and independent views ? They WILL NEVER.
thats it, lee kuan yew’s gonna lock this person up..
everybody around the world knows he’s good at that-
he so afraid of democracy.
To my point of view, why are the chinese dominating singapore in the first place, for it belongs to the malays?? and why are the malays letting this happen??
sent this immigrants back!
yes i strongly agree! why china nationality have to be here?
@ 73 and 74
It is sad to see people still associating a race to any particular country. you see, that’s the problem, no land belong to any one single race, aren’t we all Singaporeans?
Imagine if every one country has only ONE single race each. by now we really have to learn to tolerate with each other even if we’re not treated that way.
I myself am a malay, yes there are times I’ve been discriminated or seen my race being discriminated by others. but that is not going to deter me from anything within my reach. eg. I can’t get a job because I don’t speak mandarin or even because of the fact I am malay? so what, I rather not work with people like that.
And to answer your question, what to you expect the malays to do? start hating the chinese and ask them to “go back to china?” who am I to do and say that, like me, they are Singaporean too.
Generally I would like to believe that we are tolerant towards one another, yes there are exception, but think about it, there’s only so much hate ne could have in his/her heart.
What are the rest of newly elected NMP and NCMP doing ? Aren’t they going do the right thing after Viswa Sadasivan ? What are they waiting for ? They should stay together and speak up to give MM Lee another potential heart attack. This is the finest hour.
NMP, and NCMP, please go and prove your worth. Oh, I forget, some NMP did voice their admire for MM Lee ! That explains it all.
we speaking up as not to put a question not for malays or any races to answer to it as the one should answer it is the goverment itself. well speaking of tolerate, how about we just sit and tolerate with terrorist and maybe work along with them or just go our own way if we don’t like them and let them do what they want?could we singaporean and other nation tolerate this? definately we or the goverment have to do our part and thier part to protect our country and to safe guard our interest and the land that we are living in. so would you just say as to just tolerate and just give in to china nationality or any foreigner by letting them in as much as the goverment could and not knowing what effect would be falling on we singaporean?let say and it is already happen, lots of company offers lower wages to china and foreign national then to singaporean.making it jobs available more to foreigner then to singaporean as a reason singapore too choosy, stop this reason! we are not choosy or lazy, with the high living standard for us singaporean what would we do with the pay equalvalent to china national?working for long hours with lower wages but it benefit them in thier country well for us where would it benefit us?we are not against the china national for working and earning a living here but there is a limit to how many of them could be employed and for god sake in this world not only singapore is the only land that they have to jump in the whole bunch of them here and worst still bringing the family here even with lower wages their family was approved to get dependant pass to reside here. as we stand in ica and we did our survey to our shock how many of china national,vietnamese national and so on was help by the writers to write in permanent resident applications. how big is singapore to stuff all of them in?? well..we had notice our own singaporean gave up their citizens and goes abroad to live else where. no doubt its not a big numbers of singaporean but soon it will be. as we singaporean feel that there is no more space for us here as in opportunity and future that we can see upon and goverment we can rely on. we strongly suggest the goverment to look upon this and this is nothing new that we singaporean need to voice up we are sure the goverment knew more then what we had imagine and what we are facing and still it is in their hand as long we singaporean vote for them and if we had close our heart to them then we shall not put anymore hopes and not to continue our support for them. thanks again for hearing us as we are not against any races here of our singaporean and we would are happy that everyone speaks for they rights. god bless singapore
I really didn’t understand what our Minister Mentor was upset about. I think Viswa called it like it was and spoke like a true Singaporean. I was more disappointed that the traditional media did not balance the coverage and allow people to understand the issue. Again, things have been taken out of context. We need to grow up and be more progressive and accepting.
Frankly, whenever I read about critical comments by irrational, uninformed, grammatically-challenged Singaporeans I feel a great sense of anger, embarrassment and curiosity.
Have these disgruntled folks followed the U.S. election for the last couple of years? I did. One of the lessons I drew from that long drawn out display of political pandering is that Singapore is, interestingly, as close as it can get to heaven here on earth. I arrive at this conclusion because I realise that an individual, or a peoples for that matter, cannot expect a perfect solution to every issue. Whenever one thinks that they were hard done by in this country, I would urge them to cast their eyes further around the globe.
You may not accept what I say here but I believe the near one million foreigners in Singapore will agree with me. They have experienced other realities around the world. They like what we have here.
By the way, I am of the opinion that not every Singaporean deserves a vote.
Rod, Singapore is heaven on earth? LOL! I disagree because for one thing, it’s bloody hot! LOL! Heaven shouldn’t be this not, no?
Maybe you should read this: http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/08/patriotism-and-gratitude-require-reciprocity/
And this: http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/08/be-thankful-to-canada-mr-brooks/
And I know many S’poreans who’ve left and who’ve found bliss in other countries. I think you’re one of those who infest MM Lee’s Facebook fan group with post all those gut-wrenching, boot-licking, wallowing-at-MM Lee’s feet groupies.
LOL!
hi Rod,
how close to perfection is it here in S’pore?
how does one decide who deserves to vote? what is the list of criteria based on?
Mr. Viswa, you don’t have enough data & analysis (end-result is excuse). You prepared your speech in a rhetorical manner. You can hear better for the citizens’ voice, because no voice coming out from investors for the timebeing. You have a lot of excellent prologues to back-up the one of your main idea rather than strategic and analytical planning for growth. You set an example of current changes in Singapore that were forbidden before (i.e. F1 GrandPrix, IRs, public protest, etc), leading the people that the old ways were not always right (you might be right, but what if you were wrong). But have you thought about why MM and MPs let these knew ideas came and implemented here, because they knew that this country needs changes too. Majority of MPs can think and propose changes too. Hmmmmm Have you spent enough time to mingle and converse with the local and foreign investor before? you will hear one of their major needs is additional foreign talents to fill the jobs. The problem is, year of economic CRISIS, citizens naturally start to whine about foreigners (the job that must be ought for citizens in time of crisis). This whining citizens are no longer minority, they are now majority because they have big voice and economic crisis. But you hardly hear from satisfied people to complain. Most of this satisfied people were local and foreign employers, that keep citizen employed too. Complaint is naturally expected, thus, MPs approved the revision of the distinction between PR and citizen. But citizens feel this action seems not enough. I am worry and hope this will not contribute negative impact in years to come, then more foreign talents reluctant to live and work here in the future. Right now, you can feel it, not much foreign talents nowadays, I’am seeing more AVERAGE/MEDIOCRE foreign people here in Singapore. Majority of foreign talented people preferred to live and work in Canada, Australia, UK, US and Europe instead. The worst fact is, even some Singaporeans preferred to live, work and spend the rest of their lives in much bigger space like Australia, China, Malaysia and India. Basically, the point here is, gather more data & facts before putting it into rhetorical, flowery and bombastic speech.
Hmmmm, Mr. Viswa, don’t worry, you can be right in the future, Experimenting the government policy for major change is very risky, but change for improvement and protection must be done, that’s why majority of MPs are carefully examining the need for change, in a very careful, consequential and analytical approach. Perhaps there is a need to gather informations thru an informal interchange of thoughts with MM and Majority of MPs.
N.B. If you play statistics, your data is very informative.
@77) Rod on August 21st, 2009 12.24 am
“…By the way, I am of the opinion that not every Singaporean deserves a vote….”
Clearly, this person is one of the 66% mandated PAP voter. In fact 44% of total voters got walkovered, so I guess those are the “minority” that don’t deserve a vote. I bet all those that skived out of NS, or those that didn’t lose money in the Minibonds, or are too choosy to take the “abundant” low-paying jobs, are all in that 44%. Rod must have been a REMF during NS to think everything here is heaven. Ever been on 50% C-rations for 2+ years? U really freaked out seeing sardines!
Does this person knows why there is even “near one million” foreigners in Singapore? Never heard of grow-at-all-cost policy? Missing 20’s, 30’s & 40’s due to the Stop-at-2 policy between 1960s-1980s? Brain deficient or what?
MM Lee previously mentioned that we are lucky if 3 out of 10 FTs stayed in Spore. So, about 700,000 foreigners actually don’t agree with our “…irrational, uninformed, grammatically-challenged…” Rod.
80) Manager on August 21st, 2009 1.58 am
44% walkovers, 17% opposition, 5% invalid and ONLY 34% PAP, but translated to 98% parliament seats. Is this statistics? Informative?
Hey guys, go read his speech and think. He is talking crap lah. Just read his speech. It is like watching 3 movies at the sametime. No focus. I think he gotten many of the points from the internet. Yet never said anything in concrete. He will spoil the name for us. If he carries on like that, he is going to be another empty vessel and a very big one.
guys if you say that viswa’s message were’nt concrete and aint focus enuff,…
then why the hell did it scare the hell out of ol’daddy till he had to confront the parliment(which is rare), looking beaten while giving his excuses??
coz he himself knew the flaw, worst, people have started voicing it now
Hi Rod #77,
Are you Xu Kaxian from the Pasir Ris West Branch of PAP?
do not forget that Singapore is what it is today because of the superlative efforts of ordinary folks who toiled and worked hard to lift themselves out of nothing collectively over a few decades. The samsui women, the Nanyang diehards, factory operators, 1 SIR, SIA, NOL, bus drivers – these are the REAL pioneers. I am afraid this happens once in a lifetime, our present lot does not have the x-factor attributes of the pioneers. To the establishment, Sadasivan may be a non-PAP dissident, but at least he is a Singaporean who is courageous.
May the force be with him!
Rod,
Have you lived your life abroad to adequately comment on the damn difference in quality of life between those places and Singapore?
Don’t assume too much man
Good point.
I like what lisk says. Our forefathers worked hard!
Rod,
“Frankly, whenever I read about critical comments by irrational, uninformed, grammatically-challenged Singaporeans I feel a great sense of anger, embarrassment and curiosity.”
I thought we are the one that appropiately should make the above statement to you instead of from you.
What you have written is just garbage. Just because you are not happy with USA’s election and you feel that Singapore’s level of political pandering is less worse than USA then it is okay for Singaporean to be content with the injustice. Political pandering is still political pandering no matter what it is and we should not tolerate it.
“. Whenever one thinks that they were hard done by in this country, I would urge them to cast their eyes further around the globe.”
Yes, we have already look further. We look at good side of those countries we can learn from not those negative side. (like poverty and starvation of Burmaese etc). By the way, why are comparing negative country with Singapore that strive for swiss standard of living ? Are you in the right frequency ?
“They have experienced other realities around the world.”
What make you think that none of us here have experienced other realities around the world ? Yes, some of us experienced better realities because we choose to live and work in foreign country that offer much better condition than those negative country than you refer to.
“By the way, I am of the opinion that not every Singaporean deserves a vote.”
In the same way, I (and I’m sure many here do) am of the opinion that not every commenter deserves a comment in TOC especially comment of your calibre.
Heh Rod @ 77),
I agree with you that not every singaporean deserves a vote.
Especially those who keep voting again and again for PAP members who never admit to mistakes nor learn from such mistakes, ain’t this the truth ?
those who keep voting for pap over and over again and not knowing how deep they are digging their grave,well yes singapore has change for better and for who?? for us singaporean?for the pioneers who work their sweat and blood for singapore?? what are singapore now?? another las vegas or part of china land?? or mainly for tourist attraction?? so we work hard to give those sweat and blood for goverment pleasure and for entertainment??for goverment to build and give foreign nation a good life and better place to live?? and speaking of foreigner country we believe every country has it’s up and down but for singapore we always face the down part mostly rather then the up ones. take a look at some country where their own nation goes on riot due to extreme pressure and hard life they had to go through and not being treated fairly and working hard and doesn’t get a piece of it rather was told to work hard more and improve skills to work even harder just like singapore. work harder and harder and harder and what does really the goverment is giving us? tax increment?gst increment? sp increment?transportation increment?then all the money goes for their building of entertainments for foreign and roll back the big cash to them?they are giving us progress package and work fair bonus of just a few hundreds and not even a year they increase all the living cost taking more then what they give. this is enough! as every election they will bait us with package and hook up as many as possible to win overall vote and thereafter we will be thrown back to the ground to work even harder. is winning that’s the goverment thinking of? is that what they want? if that what they want then winning is all they care for! not we singaporean! and we had to work double the time and even for most of singaporean carries two job just to live a life just enough for the family ends meet. do we call ourselve singapore or let say this way,do we call ourselve human first of all. no!! we are just plain robots that a slave to the goverment as it doesn’t make any differrents the time of japanese controlling here.the only differents is we are not torture physically but internally and mentally. how long must this be going on?another few decades for the goverment to rest down and say.. ”well singaporean here is the time you people enjoy the fruits of your hard work and for being devoted and keep voting for us (goverment) and here we share and will give each of every singaporean a helping hands and a better life for you singaporean had gave all the hard work for singapore to grow.will they say this? we would say fat hope!! they will instead say they more you work the more we goverment will grow the more singapore will be a palace for foreigners and you singapore just keep working and please work more.thanks and please vote for us again.
what we can say. singapore goverment is just full of crabs and the goverment had to stop this monopoly games and start to think of his own nation and take a closer look at what is going on and maybe they already know it deep inside and just keep going just because most singaporean had just keep their mouth shut.
yes singapore do have law and those who feel being treated unfairly will happen to riots will be put behind bars.why need to put force behind us?? that means they know how dirty the ground is and had to prepare the force not against foreign country but for us singaporeans. but as singaporean please do not under estimate us,we do not want riots in our own country within we singaporean and foreigners and against races or so on but instead we will just ignore the goverment and stop voting for the next ones and so on. year by year.we will stop thinking of the goverment if the goverment is not thinking of us!
Hello (55) Oxford Dude on August 20th, 2009 3.38 am.
Are you sure West Coast GRC MP Ho Geok Choo really said … “that the unpatriotic sentiments of youths is a product of passage of time …” If this statement is correct then,
** the most unpatriotic people will be Mainland Chinese with 5,000 years of history
** I think USA or Australia are not patriotic too bec they are old 200+ years of history
** 44 years are enough to wane of patriotism
Dear NMP Viswa Sadasivan.
Wow, you sound like Obama! My heart is warmed.
Make no mistake about this … I am a Chinese, but this speech by a fellow Indian friend really warms my heart. I feet heart beat in this speech. Singaporean is matured, it does not mean whether you are Malay or Indian, if you make sense and have a heart, we are for you.
Rod,
Wow, your english is so good and elegant for a foreigner. So ? Big deal ? Go and write for PAP Shitty Times then and stop giving your comment here since no one here is going to appreciate your wonderful substanceless English here.
What’s good about having a good command of English when the brain grow on the ass ? When you can’t even understand what happen in Singapore, no amount of good English can make up for that.
The more you articulate, the more we think you are a dork. Who are the “we” ? Go figure out.
I think I may need to help the gravely aggrieved a little bit. They were not able to understand what I was saying in 77).
The key point in my earlier comment in 77) is this sentence “I arrive at this conclusion because I realise that an individual, or a peoples for that matter, CANNOT EXPECT A PERFECT SOLUTION TO EVERY ISSUE.”
In other words, life is not perfect but with all things considered Singapore is one of the best places on Earth is SO MANY WAYS and IN ITS OWN WAYS.
Smile people. Be happy. Relax.
You were lucky to be born on to this tiny island on Earth with opportunities you clearly do not deserve but have now taken them to be a right and demanding more without fully understanding what is it you are really demanding.
By the way, we need to bring back the Speak Good English campaign. When Formula 1 comes next month, please close your mouths. Do not embarrass Singapore. In my eyes, that will almost be patriotic.
I really didnt want to have to post on this thread again, but I suppose the last few comments have been rather disturbing.
98) Rod on August 22nd, 2009 5.01 pm
Politically, I’m a centre-right, and I think your extreme-right views are rather disturbing. It scares me to know that there are Singaporeans who are against the notion of universal suffrage. (The right for everyone to vote) We are a democractic society, and the right to vote is fundamental and inviolable.
And before the extreme-left starts to scream that some Singaporeans have not voted during the previous elections, I would qualify my statement by saying that we have the right to vote, but sometimes we do not have the OPPORTUNITY to vote. ie walkovers. The onus of giving Singaporeans the OPPORTUNITY to vote falls on the Opposition. Contrary to popular belief, the number of walkovers has got nothing to do with the PAP, but rather, depends on the number of Opposition figures contesting (or in most cases, not contesting)
While I might agree that not everyone has the capacity to make the most informed decision when it comes to voting, it does NOT mean that we can take that right away from them.
Rod
“Having a poor command of the language suggests that he/she did not or was not able to attain a high level of education which would likely prevent him/her from getting the types of jobs with salaries that are of a higher pay scale. Being on the ‘lower end’ of society may foster that sense of grievance.”
You have a rather narrow world view, I must say. Grandiloquence only impresses the impressionable. It’s the cogency of one’s argument that counts. When you understand autodidactism, you would then realize how seemingly uneducated individuals were able to contribute greatly to the advancement of our civilization. Einstein wasn’t the most eloquent of speakers. A dissection of his brain after his death would later corroborate with this fact. But you’re not going to deny his place in the pantheon of academics, are you? And what’s this talk about being on the lower end of society? Are you saying that anyone who has a strong grasp of the English language in Singapore will be ostensibly richer than those at the bottom strata? I would dearly love to see the statistics on that. In the meantime, I suggest you ditch the superficial slant in your thinking and scrutinize the matters at hand before passing unsubstantiated judgement on them.
so this is it? a good english and up they go? maybe they got to take that to their own country and see what kind of job given to them rather then trying to out smart singaporean here. talk about speaking good english,well..how can it be explain that a china worker with a crack up english who only understand and can speak.”yes” ”no” being hired as a site safety supervisor! earning $1800 a mth just by going around and take a look but hardly can communicate with most of the worker. but that is ok with the company and that’s ok with the goverment coz china! does it put the rest of the workers in more danger and lack of safe advice by having this kind of china safety supervisor around and not knowing the danger the company face and still he is being paid $1800 just like that!! we had seen this guy and his pay and we hardly can ask him as he doesn’t understand english at all!! then singaporean having a safety certificate and qualified for that job whose application was rejected!! what does this says!!?? not one but already lots of this happening in singapore and here we singaporeans lack of job opportunity. look around singapore,coffee shop,factory,hotels,shipyard and more.all are 90% taken up by foreigners mainly china workers.what we singaporean left is a job as cleaner,security and that’s it. or maybe trashing tin can along the road side just to earn.what are we actually? foreigners or we call ourself singaporean?
look at this:
national day they spend lots or money to party the night and lot of performance and the cost of the whole night just to celebrate national day. who is sitting in that stadium?? we are there and guess what? almost china national who occupied it and with few singaporean. they perform the F1 and throw lots of money there,who go for the show? they gonna build casino millions of dollars have been thrown who will occupied the jobs there?singaporeans?fat hope!! foreigners for sure and bet on that. and who will go for that entertainment? so the point is the whole millions and millions of dollar been thrown into all this and when it come to helping singaporeans the goverment would give just a few peanut each to all singaporean and say ”we are trying our best to help singaporeans and carry you people up and give our helping hands”
helping hands?? our foot. what kind of helping handsyou call that if you give one peanut and you take the whole pack later?? it is the same as you borrow a loan shark $200 and you pay with interest $2000?? but this way is.they give $200 then you pay by other ways by taxes,gst, rise up in household, rise up in utilities,rise up in transportation and so on. well we guess loan shark are not the bad after all compare to how we are being treated. if they think that they care for their interest then why we singaporean have to pay so much to them?for them to build their sand castle??
we singaporeans have so much of pain.hope the rest of the singaporeans will look ahead and think. no point if can speak good english and slang up and don’t like a caucasian and act like one sitting in orchard and pretend to be in las vegas! and think they have build a palace for us singaporeans. if you think so.well,that is a graveyard mistake and probably still living in worderland of some kind of fantasy. wake up! look back from where singapore come from and what are we and what our past generation had sacrifice and how hard we are still working and giving and giving to them and what had they done for us?giving us peanut every election just to win and go on with what they are doing? we are not demanding to be rich here and expect the goverment to give us millions dollar but do sit for a moment and think of us singaporeans while they still have the chance to do so.
oh ya..forgotten.please don’t forget that rise up the m******* income to even higher so they can buy new cars,feed their family well with no worries and send their child to private schools and buy them latest gadgets and travel round the world.
4/84 = 4.76% vote against PAPPY policies (which I see is the best case. Remember all votes of MPs are confidential and with confidentiality give them the discretion for self-interest). Will it worth the hassle and effort to vote then ? Will it achieve any significant objective for opp party anyway ?
So at the end of the day, does it really matter if they vote against the Pappy if it is sure lose ?
The document that you point out do doesn’t imply anything or show anything worthy of significance, it is just show same “business as usual” routine for a vote.
Rod,
post #77,
“You may not accept what I say here but I believe the near one million foreigners in Singapore will agree with me.”
such huge claim…
post #96,
“Having a poor command of the language suggests that he/she did not or was not able to attain a high level of education which would likely prevent him/her from getting the types of jobs with salaries that are of a higher pay scale.”
having a good command in English or any other language does not translate to a higher paying job. there are many other contributing factors to career success.
“The lack of a higher education might also mean that he/she might not have the intellectual capacity to fully comprehend and articulate his/her grievance in a manner constructive to himself/herself as well as society. The end result is that such folks would, when necessary, will conveniently cast the blame on the easiest target in any society: the government.”
that is shifting the blame. people from the very poor to the very rich all pay tax in 1 way or another. govts (not just S’pore’s) have a duty to ensure that the nation progresses as a whole. not sideline or ignore the issues they are not comfortable with.
Nothwithstanding the right for anyone to express him/herself in TOC, there are always some damned arrogant REMFs that utter nonsense in life. Of the same mould as the STTA president, LBW — their words just wouldn’t stand up to scrutiny. Notice how they use their command of English to change subject smoothly when presented with facts and figures, rather than produce a rational explanation of what they had said. At best I can say they may have the same script writers.
Anyway, Rod should now show proof that the 3600 just sworn in “new” citizens have better English than the locals whom jobs they are competing with. This is the opportunity Rod deserves, don’t blow it man! C’mon, explain using chim English also can!
I know of some highly educated individuals who spent 400 k to name “Marina Bay” as “Marina Bay”. Must be some cryptic code somewhere, my uneducated mind falters when it comes to understanding it.
just that you foreigners have good command of english doesn’t make you own singapore! you think you foreigners are better off than singaporeans? why back in your country you can’t even secure a job? go and correct your own goverment rather then invading here and trying to correct our goverment on what to do and what you foreigners deserve! what you foreigners deserve is just to pack your bags and leave us singaporeans alone!
yes you foreigners may think that without foreigners singapore economy may run down.so what?we singaporeans can make it up as long the goverment change and make things straight. we deserve better than this. people may say singaporean should be grateful that living those days and no and compare it now we are not that bad. but again why compare those days?can we buy food for 0.20cent?can we pay just 0.5cent for the transportation? so singapore picks up and all living standard has gone up the goverment should think of how much we are snigaporeans are earning. we are talking more to the fact here and not like some who talk the best english and blah blah blah their assss out! what is the point out bring out the best english they have when they don’t understand what we singaporean are facing here? just look at the basic of what is happening and we guess this good excellence english people should go around singapore each and every place and watch what is going on rather then sitting at their desk and speaking their assss english out here! go and interview as much as singaporean you can and see what they say as we had done it!! yes!! we had done it. from every zone we go on and talk to them and what we heard from them is deeply sad and when ask how you find the goverment now?
with the look at thier face. they lost all the hope in the goverment now. and they just want to go away from singapore and let the foreigners take over. even some we interview.they say. i don’t care i already had a house in malaysia,i’m not a citizen here and would not admit myself being a singaporean. just work here like the foreigner and live in malaysia. in malaysia i can feel the life and had a chance to breath. we are ashame that we singaporean had to let go our hads to the foreigners and we as a singaporean had to step out. what did they do about this?nothing!! just keep bring more and more foreigners thinking singapore will success. success with what??
we singaporeans are not asking the goverment to support us as we now are supporting the goverment too. we are not asking to provide us with gold spoon and feed us. what we are asking for is don’t put too much of pressure in us singaporeans financially,mentally,physically.
WE WANT VISWA SADASIVAN TO STAND FOR SINGAPOREANS! WE WOULD BE GREATFUL IF THERE IS A FEW PEOPLE LIKE HIM WHO WILL STAND FOR US AND NOT LIKE THE MP AND THE WHATEVER NOW JUST THINKING OF THEIR OWN INTEREST AND KEEP SAYING WE ARE DEPENDING ON THEM. VISWA SADASIVAN STAND FOR HIS PEOPLE AND HE HAS ALL IT TAKES TO GO FURTHER. WELL DONE VISWA SADASIVAN.
I still await quality responses to my three comments that warrant quality responses from one who loves Singapore. Where on earth have all the smart people gone?
By the way, Frog, your ramblings were incomprehensible, small caps and large ones alike. You might actually make a great example for my hypothesis. Thank you.
Cheers people.
98) Rod
“You were lucky to be born on to this tiny island on Earth with opportunities you clearly do not deserve but have now taken them to be a right and demanding more without fully understanding what is it you are really demanding.”
Opportunities are created by the people and utilized by them as well…we don’t wait for the opportunities to drop into our arm…
“By the way, we need to bring back the Speak Good English campaign. When Formula 1 comes next month, please close your mouths. Do not embarrass Singapore. In my eyes, that will almost be patriotic.”
Based on your typos, and countless errors…perhaps you can either avoid speaking and avoid typing…that will be patriotism…
“I arrive at this conclusion because I realise that an individual, or a peoples for that matter, cannot expect a perfect solution to every issue.”
That doesn’t mean we don’t strive towards a near perfect solution…and if Inventors think like Mr Rod…i guess there will never be innovations in this world…
“You may not accept what I say here but I believe the near one million foreigners in Singapore will agree with me. They have experienced other realities around the world. They like what we have here.”
Are you so sure about that? you must be having the ability of omniscience….or maybe it is just jumping to conclusion…
“Frankly, whenever I read about critical comments by irrational, uninformed, grammatically-challenged Singaporeans I feel a great sense of anger, embarrassment and curiosity.”
Frankly, when I read comments made by Rod, which are generally irrational, uninformed, grammatically-challenged with lots of typos I feel a great sense of anger, embarrassment and curiosity.
Rod, before you pop in here to criticize others and their languages…look at yours first…a pot calling a kettle black? what a joker…
Hi Rod #114,
Responding to your anti-Singapore comments would imply that they contain legitimate concerns about Singaporeans and Singapore. Why would anyone want waste time on your illegitimate rantings?
117) Oxford Dude
I just wasted the time that you mention…thanks for reminding me ;-)
To 98 rod lol you got a bang from someone.lol
Based on your typos, and countless errors…perhaps you can either avoid speaking and avoid typing…that will be patriotism…
98rod
what you mean by: ” By the way, Frog, your ramblings were incomprehensible, small caps and large ones alike. You might actually make a great example for my hypothesis. Thank you
Rod,
post #98
“When Formula 1 comes next month, please close your mouths. Do not embarrass Singapore. In my eyes, that will almost be patriotic.”
did you realise that major events like the F1 race & YOG next year depend very much on the goodwill of volunteers who are largely unpaid?
1. if you have an issue with the quality of spoken english perhaps you should take a more pro-active route & voice your concern to relevent authorities to look into the issue, instead of putting others down.
2. with S’pore trying to attract tourists from the many countries, your assumption that only english as a language medium is flawed (much less perfection). case in point, the emphasis in MSM on chinese language to engage in an emerging economy- China.
your elitist attitudes does not bode well for S’pore’s future.
Am I the only one here who thinks that Rod isn’t here for a debate? He’s just here to pick a fight. Seriously, anyone who really has some measure of common sense or intelligence would not say the things that he’s saying.
XiiAoGeNgEnX
“Am I the only one here who thinks that Rod isn’t here for a debate? He’s just here to pick a fight.”
you are not alone. ;)
@121) XiiAoGeNgEnX on August 24th, 2009 12.28 am
@122) mice is nice on August 24th, 2009 12.34 am
This person is not picking a fight, just taking opportunity to show what he/she learnt in English lessons.
@113) Rod on August 23rd, 2009 6.04 pm
@116) Oxford Dude on August 23rd, 2009 6.36 pm
@117) Yamamoto on August 23rd, 2009 6.37 pm
“….I still await quality responses to my three comments that warrant quality responses from one who loves Singapore. Where on earth have all the smart people gone?….”
Expecting quality responses to garbage postings? Sure TOC/blogs are free space but this person must be real cheap.
I also have a hypothesis, also not supported by research, blah, blah…..I heard quite often some mothers dropped their babies on their heads when they were young. Those babies grew up thinking the world is flat & the universe revolves around them. The remedy, wise men advised, is to drop these people on their head again to hopefully reverse the process. No helmets allowed for max. effect.
Apologies to the TOC community — garbage begets garbage. No worries if the editor remove this comment.
rod
did you realise that major events like the F1 race & YOG next year depend very much on the goodwill of volunteers who are largely unpaid?
VOLUNTEERS WHO ARE LARGELY UNPAID?? REALLY? GUESS WHAT ROD,YOU GOT TO GO DEEPER TO SEE THINGS. MAYBE YOU READ TOO MUCH NEWS RATHER THEN GOING DOWN THE GROUND TO VIEW IN ALL ANGLE.
-
Soon, our Pledge will read as, “We the RESIDENTS of Singapore”, given the government’s latest practice of reporting the unemployment figures based on Residents not Citizens. Clearly, the government does not distinguish PRs from Citizens.
On healthcare subsidy, the public fund for healthcare subsidy is finite. Every dollar spent on subsidizing the PRs is a dollar less to subsidize Citizens. So, the government is subsidizing PRs at the expense of us Citizens.
On National Service, the government dare not get PRs to do NS lest they pack up and go. Male Singapore Citizens, however, have nowhere to go. So, we are compelled to do NS dutifully. We commit our time and risk our lives, to provide the secured environment for our foreign counterparts to continue their lives here uninterrupted, studying, working, raising their families, and going on holidays.
A Minister drawing $1million salary has failed in his responsibility to increase the birthrate. Consequently, the government is freely handing out PR and Citizen statuses. Some might think that this Minister has not performed too badly since the birthrate has not dropped further. However, the current low birthrate might simply be at a natural steady state.
Half the Singapore population is foreigners and PRs who are not keen to become Citizens. In times of trouble in Singapore, they have somewhere else to go to. Sadly, Citizens are stuck here.
theforgottongeneration,
post #123 on August 24th, 2009 7.00 am
“This person is not picking a fight, just taking opportunity to show what he/she learnt in English lessons.”
there is no need to prove it, not here loh.
hi Frog,
post #125 on August 24th, 2009 9.35 am
did you misquote?
128) mice is nice on August 25th, 2009 11.16 pm
mice, you mean misquote as in?
may god bless singaporeans
Poor Rajaratnam
singaporeans future is in his hand and he has gone away.
LKY knows well what he is capable of and lky mind risk in peace once he know rajaratnam has gone
viswa sadasivan seems to be the new genaration the new rebirth of our late father rajaratnam
Singa,
post #129 on August 26th, 2009 11.04 am
“mice, you mean misquote as in?”
sorry Singa, i think TOC deleted a comment.
i quoted Frog’s comment in post #124 (was post #125 then), on August 24th, 2009 9.35 am. i quoted the date & time as well to acertain that the post number #?? matches the date & time.
my enquiry was to Frog.
133) mice is nice on August 27th, 2009 3.51 pm
Sorry mice coz i didn’t get the message and maybe was deleted.
Viswa should join KJ in RP to fight the PAP!
Wow there is a lot of negativity in Singapore.
I’m Singaporean, born and bred here and very happy to be here. Granted life isn’t perfect on our tiny isle but life isn’t bad at all. Granted, I always want more but I also have enough.
Having lived and worked overseas, in the USA no less, I don’t find it more attractive than living in Singapore. I chose to come back to Singapore.
It’s safe in Singapore and seriously, most people aren’t destitute here. There is a section of society that is disadvantaged but certainly not destitute.
Truth is, I do find it sad when I read all these angry comments. It is quite sad that a lot of Singaporeans really don’t appreciate what they have in Singapore. So many take take safety, security, stability, prosperity and a roof over our heads so lightly.
And I really hate the anti-foreigner, jingoistic and xenophobic sentiment that seems to have taken hold over so many people in Singapore. If people come to Singapore, work hard, pay their taxes and be generally good people all round, then why should I hate them. Being Singaporean born and bred doesn’t equate good person. God knows too that before Singapore became a nation, all my ancestors, my parents included, weren’t even technically Singaporean. God knows too that without the help of foreigners, several of our currently thriving industries would never even have gotten off the ground. Without them, our city-state would be a lot dirtier and several of our factories would have closed down from the lack of labour.
And I hate this elitist attitude when it comes to the English language. If we really are to measure our right to proclaim ourselves as Singaporeans based on our ability to use this language, a huge proportion of Singaporeans would fail and many would fail quite spectacularly too. And the really ironic thing about all this is, our National Language is actually Malay and how many of us can actually speak Malay. English was merely chosen because it was a neutral language, the most obvious language to pick as the lingua franca of this land because our ex-colonial masters were the British.
And when ever someone like me says something positive about this nation and the current crop of politicians, we are insulted and yelled down by the very posters who claim they want democracy and FREEDOM of speech. Instead of a reasoned argument, I’m often subject to name calling and assumptions that I must most certainly be a PAP crony. Ironic but true which is why I’m going to write my “I think it is great here” post and then high-tailing out of here never to come back again.
Dear Mr. Viswa, This is the first time i am sending an email comment to someone regarding Government matters. I was attracted to read the article in the Straits Times, which mentioned that your speech was rebutted by MM Lee. I also managed to hear the exact statements of your speech and MM lee’s.
First time in my entire life, at the age of 54, I heard the most absurd and in a way the most stupidest statement from MM Lee. He mentioned about Indians being not the same with the malay in a very diplomatic way. But why had he to mention about Indians and the bhramins? What does he know about Bhramins? And what has Bhramin got to do in this issue. Did the so called bhramins pioneered in Singapore? Now why was the issue of black and white brought into Parliment?
Are the indians black? Are the chinese White? What about the Malays? I want this article highlighted so for once and for all, the matter of the “pot call the kettle black” will be stopped. An asian comparing with the Europeans is firstly assholic. Secondly, Euporeans are truly white, African are truly black. The extremes in both colors. An indian is actually brown. A chinese is actually yellow. A malay is actually light brown. Now , this is being down to earth.
Now, if Indians are a square pegs in a round hole, then, are the chinese round pegs in a square hole? Both the Indians and the chinese forfathers equally were people from their native land, came to Singapore looking at greener pastures? The Indian forfathers footprint are here in Singapore as much as the chinese. Indians equally share every right and ownership in Singapore. I was born and brought up in Singapore. Where else is my country if not for Singapore? Who has the right to call a citizen by birth, a square peg in a round hole? Those who were not born in Singapore might be the ones to be called a round peg in a square hole.
Sir, the problem is with old age. Once you reach a certain age, one should have the wisdom, humbleness and generousity to gracefully step down and allow the so called mentored lives and ways go on. Otherwise the older you get the messier you become. Lets not mess up things here. Singaporean and its team of well groomed leaders, under the watchful selection and choice of MM lee are well taught and equipped to handle the nation. Let nature and the real concern force “God” take care of the rest. I believe it was God who employed a man called Lee Kuan Yew to give this island called Singapore a face lift. And i also believe God has paid Lee Kuan Yew handsomely. This earth and its fullness belongs to God.
Lets us come back to earth and get this straight into our heads. No individual preson or race is to be intimidated by mortal soul. God the owner of all the land on earth will defend and protect the neglected and the innocent. Knowingly or unknowingly lets not sow differences in the hearts and minds of the younger generations. If this nation has followed the terms and conditions of the PAP for all these years, it is because, the people were taught to know good and bad. So, even now they are willing to listen and be careful what we teach them, especially what we say in Parliament where all are listening. One last humble advice. Whether big or small there must be an age cap to retire.
Oops, forgot to mention something. I am an ex-convict and my crime dates back 30 years. Now, by the grace of God, i am a totally reformed man. Since the time, I was given the chance to vote, i have voted for PAP and I will still continue to vote for them. Lets agree, they have the tools to make what they have made upto date. All I am interested is, never forget all those souls and their decendents who have contributed in small ways or in bigs way to the prosperity of this nation. Atleast remember, unlike many countries, people in Singapore have subjected themselves and made life easy for the ruling party to concentrate and develop this nation more easier and speedily. We gave, or maybe our forfathers too, the PAP ample room to move and work it out with ease and peace. Its time PAP should give back to us. I sincerely believe, thousands of people in this tiny nation have work behind the screens. People who have pray and are still praying for this nation and its leaders. God is directly involved with this nation, so better be careful. Joe
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Uncategorized - Jan 15, 2010 10:12 - 126 Comments
It is affordable – Mah Bow Tan
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Uncategorized - Jan 15, 2010 10:12 - 126 Comments
It is affordable – Mah Bow Tan
More In Uncategorized
- Rebutting Law Minister K Shanmugam
- Challenge of communication
- TOC & Talk Politics hold successful Year in Review forum
- “Live” from Post Museum – TOC’s Year End Review
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Well said Mr Sadasivan!!