Many foreigners coming to Singapore are in their late 20s or older. They are already economically productive and can immediately contribute to Singapore’s economy. It makes little sense to disrupt their activities for two years.
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So, it is fair to take away 2 yrs of locally born Singaporean guys?
It is about time that PR is not given so freely, even to those with tertiary education.
The conversion process from work permit to PR should not be that liberal.
Yes, we need foreign workers, but there is no reason to give away PR (with similar benefit to Citizen) so liberally. This is the main cause of social tension now.
The sentiment of locals is obvious about wasting our 2 years and resulting in a delayed start to our careers directly because of NS.
For the PR’s who don’t want to be ‘inconvenienced’ and claim to be already ‘productive’ WHY does it stop them from doing Civil Defense(Fire Service etc) , Work at Charities/Old folks home ?? Weekends? Come on, us locals get to dig trenches on weekends too don’t we ?
No excuses.
In the old days, we had partime NS duties that lasted 12 years in the Special Constabulary / Vigilante Corps. I suggest we bring this back for the PR’s !
I don’t see how this will disrupt their economic contribution.
Any males liable for NS serves their liabilities at a time they can contribute immediately economically. Thus, Mr Xiao’s is without a point. I pray that Mr Xiao is not the so called “talent” who the government craves so badly for. He obviously lack the grey matter to be branded as such.
By Mr Xiao’s logic, would it make sense to disrupt the economic productivity of local males by making them serve 10 cycles of reservist duties?
The leter writer’s name screams “China Ah Tiong”.
An alternative perspective on NS is that it is tax on our time as citizens. Thus I recommend a “NS” monetary tax on new adult citizens who join our country.
We should make it a law to pay new PRs like Xiao Fuchun a monthly salary of $350 (same as NS pay) for their first two years here, with the difference between the pay from their employers and the $350 going into a community fund for the needy and elderly. Won’t make them less economically contributive.
thedoc,
Your comments are disallowed. Please refrain from using vulgarities – no matter how upset you are.
Thanks.
I feel if the foreigners really want to assimilate into Singapore and our culture then they also should be liable to do what any young singaporean has to do.
I did 2 1/2 years of national service followed by 13 years of reserve duty for my country after whish I was transfered to the civil defense and I accepted all this and did all this and am still able to carry on with my life without any disruption so the excuse does not hold quarter.
If anyone feels that they should be given leeway just because they are contributing in their own way then each individual singaporean will file for exemption on the grounds that they are also contributing in some way and so should be exempt from doing national service.
Then they might say also it’s a security issue. Then having them grow up and live here might also be a security issue as can be seen from the 911 incident in NYC when they were living there for many years as normal citizens. I stand corrected in what i have said but this is my feelings on this issues.
Contributing to the economy cannot be compared to sacrificing or laying down your life in times of war.
The letter writer is mistaken precisely because of the safety which our servicemen gives him. He should think deeper and think beyond the $$ sign.
tkl supports local singaporean men.
http://tankinlian.blogspot.com/
This guy is a leech of our system…….typical bloodsucker just like our elites.
Birds of a feather do indeed flock together.
Heard from the hardware forum that this xiao is PRC.
Well Well, people like Ah Xiao wants to enjoy the “benefit” of Singapore without shedding blood and sweat…what does tell us about people like him?
Leechers? or i will just say losers. and i will bet that this are the same type of people who will tel. singaporeans that whine about NS to just shut up and bear with it since we are living in such a “good” place.
Oh, to add on, his article isn’t convincing, more towards crappy….finishing off with how infantry isn’t suitable for people in the 20s….hello…..wake up…..Xiao…if you cannot be the man in green…..you can be a CD…
and Oh Ah Xiao…..he said that the social network that they have built will be disrupted, but he seems to have failed to realise that NS will let him build a wider social network…singaporean guys have to bear with this sacrifice, so should they. According to a quote from Miss Wee Shu Min *am i right* stop been a leacher
Since the government always boast that Singapore is such a wonderful and safe place to live in, shouldn’t new citizens be more than happy to serve a modified form of NS to contribute to the wonderfulness and safety of Singapore? “Contributing economically” doesn’t count because every tom, dick, harry with a job is “contributing economically”.
If they refuse, then we should get more appreciative and hungrier new citizens. Isn’t this what the government always tells Singaporeans?
Going by the same logic, then ICT/reservist shd be scrap since most of us S’pore guys start their cycle in their mid 20s. We just mark our 44th yr of independence, it only takes some foreigners to unwind the goodwill/work the government has cultivated these 4 decades. The funny thing is they are allowing it.
This starkly reveals the difference between a real citizen and a citizen of convenience. For real citizens, it is the obligation to serve and sacrifice, even blood and life because our ties to the land is more than merely economic. Thus our sacrifice goes beyond the economic and ‘practical’. for a citizen who comes to singapore because of the economic benefits and those ‘benefits’ of becoming a singaporean, then their sacrifice to the country will only be ‘practical’ and ‘economic’. in other words, they will always be calculative towards what they will sacrifice based on what they have gained. i think iit is a foregoned conclusion what the future of Singapore will be if the citizenry is founded on the likes of the writer. Indeed NS or some form of it is the litmus test whether one is worthy of becoming a citizen. citizenship is not cheap. it has its price.
How many talents does SIN needs ?
China and India can provide 10 or 100 million anytime, take them lah ! They will make SIN richer and stronger.
Why wait ???
patriot
Oh, I mean within those talents(from China and India) there will be plenty of Defense Experts, Military Experts and Weaponry Experts too. They will make SIN invincible !
patriot
Many Singapore borned male citizens above 20 or more are doing the usual compulsory fulltime NS and also into the annual reservists ICTs until they attained certain age or clocked certain numbers of ICTs.
They also have their families and careers to tend to and they also contribute to the country’s economy.
to I Hate Leeches:
How can this Chinese guy be compareable to our “elites”.
Our “elites” suck a lot more blood.
They are vampire level at least.
You are over praising the chinese guy.
It makes little sense to disrupt them for 2 years?
It makes even less sense to improvish our people by taking their productive and paying them peanuts.
When they could have worked in the jobs these foreigners are taking up.
As if sense determines everything in s’pore…
If there is NS scheme imposed on foreigners, they will just choose to be PR to avoid the scheme. So the idea will not work.
can i suggest PRs or those who are not made to contribute to our nation’s defense be taxed for it? & that the tax be re-imbursed to those NSmen who while serving NS full time, or within the 10 years or mandatory in-camps be compensated financially for the opportunity lose?
folks (readers & posters) what do you think of such a suggestion? ;)
one united people?
if S’pore is still very very rich might as well just buy over professional armies with our fat defense budget & free up local men’s time to contribute more to our economy.
maybe with 100% contribution to our economy from local males, S’pore can even “open a tender for defense contract”!!
:)
NS is about the defence of Singapore. And to defend the country, it must first be worth defending. Having foreigners as citizens who are not liable to participate in its defence will not motivate me to defend them. So what if they have contributed economically? Every one does, even our womenfolks and children. The question is will they lay down their lives for us when it is required to do so?
We are not even expecting them to go through the full 2 year NS period. Is it too much to ask them to join our Reservists force to learn the basics? What can be worse for anyone making excuses for them to avoid NS?
hi Gemami,
” Is it too much to ask them to join our Reservists force to learn the basics?”
well, so much for social integration…
“What can be worse for anyone making excuses for them to avoid NS?”
better ask those PRs & newly converted citizens. why does the country they come from have an army if at all, why not just make money. money can solve many problems. isn’t it why you are in S’pore now?
Pardon me for being not getting in touch with NS ….it been awhile since.
Since when have we abundant reservist?
As I haven;t been watching local TV for a long time, are they still not doing the mobilzaiton exercising lerts on TV?
gutless
We have about 200,000 to 250,000 NSmen that potentially can be mobilised for operations.
I just wrote my response to this Xiao chappie’s illogical argument for “foreign “”"talent”"”" who seek maximise economic advantages out of Singapore Inc while offering weak apologetic arguments why foreigners shouldn’t need to contribute to the defence of their ricebowl.
His point about infantry requiring fitness is a joke given that NSmen have to serve until 40 (WOSE) and 50 (officers) in strenuous combat/IPPT activities.
One of my unit NSman collapsed during IPPT at age 32.
http://military-life.blogspot.com/2009/08/ns-for-adult-new-citizens-not-practical.html
Majullah Singapura.
Given a choice, who wants to do “NS”.
PS: We have far too many foreigner(s) in Singapore today… really too many… They are everywhere… Are we adopting the “spartan” ideology – only the fittest survive? I believe it will be a “good” debate.
This xiao of the xiaos certainly from PRC and why was his letter published – do not talk about NS as we do not even want person of such selfish character to stain the soil of SG nor foul the air here.
Better he goes pang layang hor….
when i was workin/pr of britain, i too had to do my juror duty as any citizen
i am not a citizen just a fulltime permanant residents enjoyin all the priviledges of the citizens
do you see me grumbled?
~zhee~
lived among men
be a man
act liked a man
Everyone should remember what a FT once told me: they can say/do such things to S’poreans is because our system allows them to do it. Absolutely no restrictions for them (maybe that’s why most of the grimly murders in recent years were done by….. guess who?).
aiyoyo,
can think in this way, since foreign talent so good,
can they join SAF? (since young & powderful…)
aiyoyo
@34) aiyoyo on August 11th, 2009 8.05 pm
I recall either Philippines/Vietnam/Indonesia, the military were known as “voting machine”. Merc may not suit such logic.
Aside: Our older generation of leaders (some served in NS) never reach rank of BG+. But the newer batch somehow like stars on themselves… funny how a generation makes..
fxxk u, xiao fuchun!
u mean the 2.5 + 13 years that we local men are forced to serve is not disruptive to our family, friends and ourselves??
then u should go and serve only during the weekend so that it is not disruptive to ur master pap’s economy.
it sucks that we are risking our lives forced to protect these leeches and the pap elites. and if we suay up lorry during ns, who take cares of us?? NOBODY.
It pains me to see all those FTs in Singapore, taking away jobs, places in universities and generally degrading the standard of living in Singapore.
I will be going into the army next year and waste 2 bloody years in there. 2 years which could be spend on further education. The FTs can just come here, take the position in Uni or a job position without serving the 2 years.
I am sad for the parents of young able singaporean men who has died during their 2 years doing their NS.
This Chinkgapore Xiao Fuchun has insulted their deceased kids with this letter.
Don’t blame the foreigners for coming. Who would turn down the chance when a government offered them free scholarships and better paying jobs?
Don’t blame the foreigners for being arrogant. They have been told repeatedly by the government that they are talents and create jobs for Singaporeans.
Don’t blame the foreigners for not learning English. The employers didn’t tell them English is a job requirement. Government also never specify before granting work permits or PR.
Don’t blame the foreigners for not adapting to local culture. Government never require PR or new citizens to do so via entry tests.
Don’t blame the foreigners for overcrowding. It is the government’s duty to restrict immigration based on how many people Singapore can sustain.
Don’t blame the foreigners for not serving NS. The government made NS unattractive by giving similar benefits to PR and citizens. Moreover, who would want to be paid $300 per month for 2 years for such a dangerous job? Even road sweepers get paid more.
Blame the gahment
I think it made perfect economic sense then to disrupt me for 2.5years and 13 years reservist. I do not see why it don’t make sense to make the foreign citiizens go through some NS to foster a sense of belonging and identitty (haha).
Anyway nothing seems to make much sense in these last few years.
Lefleche
“Indeed NS or some form of it is the litmus test whether one is worthy of becoming a citizen. citizenship is not cheap. it has its price.”
–
I fully agree. If anyone is not prepared to serve some form of citizen service, I certainly do not want them to take up citizenship here.
to these complaining foreigners, “dun ask what the country can do for you, ask yourselves what can you do for the country (S’pore)!!”
;)
our public transport is overwhelmed by FTs.
our land and rent price is pushed up by FTs.
our university places are made scarce by FTs.
but our SAF camps lack manpower because FTs are not makiung an effort to contribute.
What kind of people are we importing here….Made in China, Made in India and whatever…. NS is forced onto citizens and disrupts both my life and work and this guy can say it disrupts his social network. What an idiot. It’s about time they were made to do NS and really understand what it means. This guy is clueless. Blur like sotong….
I was already economically productive when i was 15.
So how?
“44) fishmongor on August 11th, 2009 11.37 pm
our public transport is overwhelmed by FTs.
our land and rent price is pushed up by FTs.
our university places are made scarce by FTs.
but our SAF camps lack manpower because FTs are not makiung an effort to contribute.
”
Singapore can easily accommodate 6 million people. The problems are:
- government refuse to let small scale public transport providers run alternate services like the mini-buses found in Hong Kong to ease the overcrowded transport. They say the profits of SBS and SMRT need to be protected.
- there are plenty of undeveloped land but the government prefer to restrict supply of land and HDB flats so that they can maximise profits. By reducing supply, prices are pushed up and they can earn more per unit of flat sold.
- again the government prefer to spend our reserves in overseas banks than on Singaporeans. The number of universities in Singapore is clearly insufficient. We have so many people capable of getting “A” levels and diplomas. Thousands of people get accepted into first tier universities abroad every year. For a population of 5 million and with such a high literacy level, we should be looking at 8, 9 universities. Now every person from India and China have degrees. Who would you hire on the same pay – a Singaporean with Diploma or foreigner with degree (even if the degree is lousy)?
- SAF do not lack manpower. NSFs should be paid a market salary so that SAF comes out of its addiction to cheap labour. Our time should be spent purely on training so that NS duration can be reduced. SAF is like those construction companies that hire $600 a month Bangladeshi workers and just leave them hanging around without much work to do. Because they are so cheap to hire, nobody bothers to increase their productivity.
This kind of nonsensical reasoning is an INSULT to those Singaporeans who are serving, or have served their NS.
Straits Times which FAIL to see the author’s illogical reasoning and allow it to be on print, is also to blame.
Perhaps years an years of churning of low quality propagandas made the editors so brain dead that they will simply publish ANYTHING that supports the gov’s stance WITHOUT even taking a second to THINK before printing.
Zombies…..sigh!!!
There is another reason why i don’t like to go for ICT (besides disrupting work and family time, night training, field camp…etc). and that is cutting of hair.
Every time i go for ICT…I will be pushed to the hair cut line by the RSM…and you know whats the reason ? Becos my “back hair” is “straight style”. And they want all the reservists to have “slope cut”….
Give me a break…..this is 2009….and we have to still cut slope ? Once the army barber cuts slope it will take a few months to get back to the “straight style”.
When i take MRT to work…i see many people my age with longer hair touching the collar, dye hair blonde…brown….Don’t tell me all of them are foreigners & PR ?
I know hair cut is not a big issue….but its little things like this which will add up.
For a long time Singaporean NS male were fighting on lower ground, where FT, PR and our Women folk are comfortably on the high ground.. And i assume this may stayed status quo for a long , long time with the current gov.
Male Singaporean should really think seriously about some strategies to level up, since they are not able to do anything about it.
One of the solution is to work oversea up to about 40 years old. By then you may have saved enough to retire. your reservist unit may be stand down and you are released permanently. Whether you want to stay in sg or not you have a choice. Instead, of getting stucked.