From The Campus Observer:
The weakening economy, rather than race and religion, is the greatest threat to national harmony, according to NUS students.
In a non-scientific poll of 30 students from various academic disciplines conducted by the Observer, 70 per cent of respondents said they did not agree with Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong that issues of race and religion have the greatest potential to cause social unrest in Singapore.
Lee highlighted the twin issues of race and religion as “the most visceral and dangerous fault line” in Singapore during his National Day Rally speech on Aug. 16.
Read the full report here.
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50 Singa #
it is true, they pay cheap labour to clean our blocks. Nowadays the blocks are more dirty compare to last time. They earn a lot from us, without us, they can’t survive and they can’t get million dollar pay
So our millionaire ministers cannot even identify what’s critical facing Singapore?
What a joke!!!
Seriously folks, time for determined change.
whether NUS conduct their poll based on just 3, 30, 300, 3000, 300k does not matter. it will still be the same result because no matter how u cut it, the threats that most singaporeans are concerned about are high cost of living and FT. not religion or race as pap is trying to wayang on parliament right now. not that its not important, just not as pressing.
any polls on the internet, chit-chat w friends/colleagues/family all reveal the same result. except maybe on states times. even a impromptu call-in on the radio for issues showed 70% is more concerned abt cost of living, ft etc.
only that the government is afraid of tackling the real issues at hand.
if not then we are in even bigger trouble as they do not even know what is the problem
Oxford Dude,
“NUS students are not dumb and they haven’t been bought by Lee Hsien Loong’s National Day Rally Message / Distraction…”
I honestly find it hard to be convinced by what you said altho i give you the benefit of doubt.
Baby Lee focus on the NDP speech is nothing new…. Many many politicians do that all the time………………. It is a common ploy used by Public Relation…. move public focus away from the state of the economy, Temasek, GIC and divert them to a common threat/enemy or what have you ……
Living in Malaysia, I tend to agree with PM Lee that the twin issues of race and religion are “the most visceral and dangerous fault line” in Singapore, ostensibly because Singapore is just too close to Malaysia for comfort. One has to follow Malaysian Politics closely to realize what he is talking about.
The results of the Observer survey seems to indicate that NUS students (and if we could generalize, Singaporeans, generally) are living inside a cocoon (katak di bawah tempurung) called Singapore island, not aware of the bigger picture just outside of its immediate boundaries where multi-million ringgit corruption and multibillion dollar scandals are so mundane as not to raise an eyebrow. And here in Malaysia, the twin issues of race and religion are hung up everyday to divert attention or justify these megacorruption and megascandals..
“So our millionaire ministers cannot even identify what’s critical facing Singapore?”
Those clowns did identify the critical issues but then replace them by trival and non-pressing issues of the day otherwises how else can the most citical issues been ignored ?
I like what agent 008 stated:
Its so true…
Talking about race and religon issues during peaceful time is like picking on a scab that has healed a wound, it will start to bleed and the more you pick the more it bleeds and the wound ruptures. So Mr PM, PLEASE DO NOT DO THIS! If you are sincere, you can do the following:
1. Remove the ‘Race’ field in IDs and any application forms. Or change it to ‘Ethnicity’
2. Enforce minority representation in the media.
3. Do not promote just English & Mandarin.
Mr PM, better still, talk about the current hot topics like foreign workers, immigration (both inflow & outflow), cost of living, shift in industries affecting Spore, the financial institutions furore and environmental matters.
1) singa on August 25th, 2009 3.51 pm Lee highlighted the twin issues of race and religion as “the most visceral and dangerous fault line” in Singapore during his National Day Rally speech on Aug. 16
I think PM Lee and family are the most visceral and dangerous fault line.
stop treating us like idiot…….
51) Moe Gan Thai on August 26th, 2009 12.43 pm
50 Singa #
it is true, they pay cheap labour to clean our blocks. Nowadays the blocks are more dirty compare to last time. They earn a lot from us, without us, they can’t survive and they can’t get million dollar pay
yes it is true.they play poker game and earn million dollars from our pockets and they shift out attention so that we play ping pong throwing ball at each other singaporeans so they can play poker peacefully and cheat even more.lol
most important there should not be grcs.
all change to single ward.
we can then really see what people want.
Only a mere 30 dissenting voice and you make a mountain out of a mole hill?
What is your intention , motivation and motive?
Come clean pronto!
30 independant working brains is good enough.
a mountainous problem cannot be hidden from view. & these are the 30 who have seen that mountain…
people from ivory towers above the clouds will only see the top of the mountain, to these privileged few, what they see (the top above the clouds) is the size of mole hills.
who can fault them if they do not travel below the clouds… :)
Haha.. I just saw MSM’s counter response to this article on TODAYonline.
The Greater Threat: National Security
63) Ms Cheng
If only 30 dissenting voice is to be LIGHTLY DISMISSED, what then will trigger some attention? Who should be funding and finding out how serious the problem is with the start of 30? Do you mean The Observer, the students of NUS, TOC, or those sitting pretty in high offices who are supposedly concern with citizens?
Now do we understand why they sit tight in their ivory towers? They are waiting for citizens to prove to them that there is a problem, otherwise they refuse to move their butt. When I mean prove, I mean doing survey of 3000 or even 3 mil scientifically.
U can’t expect a mere under-graduate to do polls of the entire student population in NUS. In fact, what makes you think students would speak up or even think about this issue? our students are well engineered to be so economically driven that they accept everything that they read on the media, just as long as they can survive in the corporate world after graduation.
I find some of the comments here appalling as you do not have to get 3000 or 30000 response, although that can be done via various institutions such as the media (which is of course controlled by the media). The 30 students who actually dared to comment do so because they know the underlying problem surrounding this society and wish to change that. Sadly, the bulk of the students population (across the island as well I presume) would not even dare to say anything that is opposed to the government. That is the sad reality of our society. No one dares to ask for change, because that will only lead to the demise of their own dreams. So what can we do now? I leave that to your own discretion but I do hope for some concrete actions to be taken rather than these verbal debates done online.
Maybe this gestures can sort of impress foreigners that the intellectuals in state university can think?
That singapore is opening up?
Impressed?
hi Oxford Dude,
“Haha.. I just saw MSM’s counter response to this article on TODAYonline.”
from the link:
“SDJ Tan Siong Thye said: “We can ill afford such security compromise in today’s context as terrorism is very real. The sentence must therefore clearly reflect the strong disapproval and also signal to all military personnel … that the security of Singapore must be taken very seriously and cannot be compromised under any circumstances.”
what about the FT/FW “invasion”? the financial security of local to the right to decent jobs that provide enough to feed oneself, his/her parents & start a family of 2 kids?
truely MSM style of reply- selectively biased.
Race is no longer a fault line. Religion is. And the current economic situation is even more dire!
In the west for people to disagree with any politician is very normal. Very nothing wan.
I wonder what is the hooha about a few students disagreeing with PM?
I wonder would westerner students feel weird about the article why it is written like some kind of world shocking findings.
it seems to be that this whole emphasis on race and religion is contradictory to the well known tagline of ‘one people, one nation, one singapore’. by highlighting this matter over and over again, what it makes is really drive down the message that hey, we are all different. the race issue has been around since singapore’s conception, and is a very important tool in it’s politics, in ensuring that the minorities remain in their place. and despite the sometimes not-at-all subtle institutionalised racism, the minorities and the population are placated by being given our basic needs – food, shelter, education and a comfortable living. there is no doubt that we in singapore have it much better now than before, and are comparable to other more established cosmopolitan societies. But the question now is, how long are we as a society going to use this to excuse what we see as obvious faults in the country?
After going through those alternate- and counter-narratives to the hegemony of Malaysia PM Najib’s “1Malaysia” slogan in www,nutgraph.com, I wonder whether are we Singaporeans already ‘hegemonized’ when we repeat the ‘one people, one nation, one Singapore’ tagline. Can Singaporeans, or are Singaporeans capable of living and imagining a life apart from the prescribed hetero-normative, consumption-driven and reaLeeist version?
The real faultline is between the 6-times OBAMA pay leaders and the fore-fathers that are cleaning hawker centre tables.Please do not give any more Bogeymen speeches until the real problem is solved.
71) factual
////// Race is no longer a fault line. Religion is. And the current economic situation is even more dire!//////////
Race and religion are intertwined, no?
76) KopitiamApek,
In Malaysia, race and religion is not intertewined, they are alloyed, LOL. When a Malay opts out of Islam, he is no longer recognized as a Malay by the Malaysian government and he loses all his special privileges.
#77) haha. Maybe Singaporeans are becoming like the Malays in Malaysia – got privileges but no freedom(Clive Kessler ST 29.08.09)? But what is that elusive thing called ‘freedom’ anyways Clive?
77) ekompute
Alloyed indeed ! What a word. Ha ha.
I like what you said in #56
To sum up in a word, it will be the word “cocooned” you used.
These young uni dudes has yet to see the real world, yet to bang on some trees, still living in a fairytale land
63) Ms Cheng, very ///////Only a mere 30 dissenting voice and you make a mountain out of a mole hill?//////////
Hi, I agree with you. 30 is a hopelessly insufficient sample size.
As I posted before, what will you get if you walk in a Jalan Kayu roti prat shop to survey if Singaporeans loves prata : )
18) CelluloidReality
/////// I think most young Singaporean graduates under the age of 35 don’t really see race as an issue, or view issues through a racial lens. ////////
Most young people do not see race as an issue as they have not accumulated enough life experience to see the reality of this world.
After banging on a few trees along the way, suddenly…….
“I can see! I can see!”
KopitiamApek,
post #76 on August 29th, 2009 1.07 pm
“Race and religion are intertwined, no?”
eh, no. there are Muslims in China as there are Christians in Indonesia.
It really saddened me when I read about all the negative comments abt the PAP and the government. They have done such a wonderful job and also if we trust our future in the opposition hands, it means that a girl is getting married with a wrong guy. The end result will be the girl will suffer greatly and regretted her decision why she didnt choose the right guy in the first place? Choosing a guy is the same as choosing the right government to govern us because the PAP got track records to show to the electorate and what about the opposition? None.
83) Thomas
//// It really saddened me when I read about all the negative comments abt the PAP and the government./////
Be prepared for a volley of missles coming to you for what you wrote.
People at TOC loves to hate the gahmen.
They may have been so frustrated with their lifes they need to blame someone lah.
I am not pro no anti gahmen, I am pro doing the right thing.
All these generalisation used for gahmen bashing is not doing helping. Like I posted many times before, one should be focussed, and say right when it is done right, say wrong when it is not done right.
It really saddened me when I read about all the negative comments abt the PAP and somehow did not translate into 60% or less seats for the incumbent govt.
It really saddened me when I read comments about the wonderful track record of the PAP but I am confused about all virtues such as integrity, truth, honour, sense of shame, sense of justice, humility, empathy, fairness, because I see none in the present govt.
KopitiamApek says in #81: “Most young people do not see race as an issue as they have not accumulated enough life experience to see the reality of this world.”
Actually, talking about race is ridiculous. What does it matter what race the other person is. Either you talk about your family or you talk about your nation. Talking about race is really detrimental to any nation. But the fact is that there are many unscrupulous people who would exploit any differences, real or perceived, to achieve their ambitions. If it is not race, it is religion. And if it is not religion, it could be the color of your underwear. As long as any government can exploit a difference in order to justify robbing Peter to give Paul, it can always depend on the support of Paul.
Ms Cheng and KopitiamApek, both of you open your mouths and showed your ignorance about Statistics in Post #63 and #80, LOL.
30 happens to be the magic figure in statistics. The results are statistically significant. A sample size of anything less is meaningless in statistics, as in the absurd case when one person repeat an exam, pass, and we say that 100% passed the exam. I cannot remember the parameters but if my memory does not fail me, the confidence level of a sample of 30 is 80%, meaning that the results of the survey is true of the population 80% of the time, with a possibility that the results is wrong 20% of the time. A sample size of 30 then is the statistical minimum. A sample size of 50 will of course be even better but as I said, 30 is the acceptable minimum.
KopitiamApek also raised a very interesting point when he said: “As I posted before, what will you get if you walk in a Jalan Kayu roti prat shop to survey if Singaporeans loves prata.”
Well, you will get a biased result if you do that. In statistics, one is required to get a random sample. In other words, you cannot get a sample that consist of people of the same inclination, age group, or income group, to name just a few.
So the results of the survey is statistically valid, since it says NUS students and not Singaporeans.
to Thomas 83),
You implied the PAP did a wonderful job and has a track record to show, really ?
I can only agree the PAP had a good track record during the initial 20 years.
Yes those PAP leaders then, contributed immensely and took very little.
But for subsequent years until now, the PAP leaders contributed little but distributed immensely to themselves and their stooges.
This is by far a more balance view of the PAP. And it is important to get it right because many young men and ladies reading this are our future.
Thomas
post #83 on August 29th, 2009 11.40 pm
“It really saddened me when I read about all the negative comments abt the PAP and the government. They have done such a wonderful job and also if we trust our future in the opposition hands, it means that a girl is getting married with a wrong guy. The end result will be the girl will suffer greatly and regretted her decision why she didnt choose the right guy in the first place? Choosing a guy is the same as choosing the right government to govern us because the PAP got track records to show to the electorate and what about the opposition? None.”
interesting analogy, like a marriage, it takes two hands to clap. initially a marriage is always very positive full of hopes & dreams, that is why they marry. but as years go by problems may occur, & its up to them to work together to confront issues head-on.
there are many things that could do aa marriage in, like financial woes, adultery, addiction (gambling, sex, drugs?), both parties growing apart, work commitment driving a wedge in-between.
PAP was given a chance to lead, these recent years the track record is less than glowing, that is why MSM needs to dig decades old history to “make-up” for the shortfall in performance. for this recent period of underperformance & the shameless self praise, it is record enought to show a new team is sorely needed. S’pore can bearly waste another few years letting incompetent people run S’pore.
it takes a long time to build a country, but only a fraction of the time to destroy it. when the past brought up is too distant, people may not understand that it is no longer relevent today. we must not live in the past, if we do, we may never move forward into the future- that is, to make progress.
87) ekompute
/// Ms Cheng and KopitiamApek, both of you open your mouths and showed your ignorance about Statistics in Post #63 and #80, LOL.//////
Thank you for your public humliation of my ignorance. You have indeed shown to all that you are the wise one.
Nevertheless, I am opening my mouth again at the risk of showing more ignorance.
/////the confidence level of a sample of 30 is 80%,/////
I tthought it would depends on the size of the group surveyed.
30 cannot be the right sample size if we are surevying a group that has only 20 nor if we are survey a population of 1 billion.
89) mice is nice
One must not live in the past, nevertheless those who fail to learn from the lessons of history are condemned to repeat them.
/////there are many things that could do aa marriage in, like financial woes, adultery, addiction (gambling, sex, drugs?), both parties growing apart, work commitment driving a wedge in-between///////
that is why children of broken families has a higher probabilty of having a broken marriage themselves, unless they learn why their parents’ marriage failed, and walk a different path.
But people do not do logical things, The children will say, we are different lah, they are old generation, we are the new generation, this will never happen to us, but sadly years down the road, history repeats itself.
86) ekompute
////Actually, talking about race is ridiculous. What does it matter what race the other person is. Either you talk about your family or you talk about your nation. Talking about race is really detrimental to any nation. But the fact is that there are many unscrupulous people who would exploit any differences, real or perceived, to achieve their ambitions. If it is not race, it is religion. And if it is not religion, it could be the color of your underwear. As long as any government can exploit a difference in order to justify …….////////
There are 2 issue here as I see it.
1. Is gahmen expoilting race as an issue?
2. Is race an issue?
1.
Gahmen has used all kinds of bogeyman to create a sense of common threat to unite the people to their side, this political strategy is used probably since caveman days.
Long ago, it was the MCP and commies threats.
Even US used that in the imagined “Domino Theory”
Now their bogeyman is the “terrorist”, WMD, etc
That is the way of politics
2
If we are all Vulcans like Mr Spock of Star Trek, intellectual logical being devoid of emotion, race is not going o be an issue. But we are not. And thus we do illogical things that makes it an issue. To think it you can wish it away would be naive.
Hi KopitiamApek at #90: Public humiliation? My sincere apologies if you feel that because it was never my intention. In any case, those who have studied Statistics even at an introductory level would have pick up your misconception.
I merely wanted to point out to you that a minimum sample size of 30 is something that is so well-established in the field of statistics and is arrived at through mathematical computation (not philosophizing) and to question it is something that does raise an eye brow. Maybe you would want to read this article, “Sample Size… Why 30?” at http://www.isixsigma.com/library/content/c030506a.asp
There is nothing wise or foolish about pointing out someone’s misconception. No one has a monopoly of being right or wrong. Today, you make a mistake, tomorrow, I make one. We learn from each other and that’s why a forum such as this is beneficial to everyone. No one knows everything.
Quote: “The weakening economy, rather than race and religion, is the greatest threat to national harmony, according to NUS students.”
That NUS students do not think that race and religion is an issue merely attests to the fact that the Singapore government has done such a good job that these two are not an issue in Singapore at the moment, NOT that race and religion are never a potentially explosive issue. Race and religion have always been emotionally-charged issues, especially in brainless societies, where they can easily be exploited by unscrupulous elements and have caused bloodshed, massacre and ethnic cleansing in many countries throughout history. Ethnic cleansing against the Chinese has happened many times in the history of the Philippines and Indonesia.
In Malaysia, race and religion is the No. 1 issue that has been exploited by the government since independence in 1957 to divide and rule, such that racial polarization has become a serious problem even in primary schools, what more in universities. But the UMNO-led government does not see that as an issue. In fact, it sees it as a “healthy” development to ensure its continued existence. Everyday, you hear Ministers flaming racial sentiments.
Since last Friday, 28 August 2009, Malaysia is embroiled in a religious issue in Shah Alam, Selangor, where a group (need we say which group?), protesting against the construction of a Hindu temple, has threatened bloodshed and committed the ultimate act of religious insensitivity, insult and profanity to Hindus by severing the head of a cow and stomping it in front of the Selangor State Secretariat building (Selangor is now governed by the Opposition). The Federal Government has not taken any action against this group. Now supposing in retaliation, the Hindus were to counter-protest with a demonstration involving a severed pig’s head, what would have happened? Well, I won’t be in the least surprised that there will be another May 13 coming.
KopitiamApek
post #91 on August 30th, 2009 7.21 pm
“that is why children of broken families has a higher probabilty of having a broken marriage themselves, unless they learn why their parents’ marriage failed, and walk a different path.”
eh, actually children from well-to-do families do suffer from dysfunctional families too. as for the ratio, i do not have the exact figures, but i guess there never was 1 done locally either?
“But people do not do logical things, The children will say, we are different lah, they are old generation, we are the new generation, this will never happen to us, but sadly years down the road, history repeats itself.”
there will always be a generatio, idealogical differences, just like you assume most negative posts as mindless rants.
dysfunactional families cuts across all deomgraphic
negativeness cut across generations
I see old folks too ranting at Kopitiams, albeit they must be getting very good at it with all the cumulated experience after ranting for umpteen years
95) mice is nice
Positive and negative thinking are both contagious.
All of us affect, in one way or another, the people we meet. This happens instinctively and on a subconscious level, through thoughts and feelings transference, and through body language. People sense our aura and are affected by our thoughts, and vice versa. Is it any wonder that we want to be around positive people and avoid negative ones? People are more disposed to help us if we are positive, and they dislike and avoid anyone broadcasting negativity.
Negative thoughts, words and attitude bring up negative and unhappy moods and actions. When the mind is negative, poisons are released into the blood, which cause more unhappiness and negativity. This is the way to failure, frustration and disappointment.
Since this tread is about NUS students and they are Singapore’s future,
I would like to leave a quote from Friedrich W Nietzsche for us to ponder.
” The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently. “
KopitiamApek
post #96 on August 31st, 2009 11.32 pm
////negativeness cut across generations
I see old folks too ranting at Kopitiams, albeit they must be getting very good at it with all the cumulated experience after ranting for umpteen years////
your reaction to statements less than chirpy is rather negative too, for all that does not sound like music to you are considered rants.
you can rant about “negative” posts or look deeper into the issues that some posters raise & not disagree just for the sake of disagreeing.
What is ‘negativeness’? Judging from KopitiamApek, it simply means not conforming to PAP ideals.