A week ago, reports in the mainstream media about the newly-revamped and newly-staffed P65 blog said that “none of the [the writers] are affiliated to the Young PAP”. However, it now surfaces that one of the writers on the blog is indeed a Young PAP member
And he revealed it himself in a blog post titled, “I’m coming out”.
On 11 August, in the report on the 93.8FM website, one of the editors of the P65 blog site, Mr Tang Ho Wan, was reported to have said that none of the eight new writers on the blog was affiliated to the Young PAP. He was also reported by the Today newspaper as having said the same.
Here’s the screenshot from 938′s website:
On 16 August, however, on the P65 blog itself, one of its new writers, Mr Vikram Nair, revealed that he is a member of the Young PAP. In a post titled, “I’m coming out”, Mr Nair said: “For the record, I am a member of the Young PAP. However, all the views I share here are my own.”
Here’s a screenshot of Mr Nair’s post on the P65 blog:
On August 12, Young PAP Chairman, Mr Teo Ser Luck, was reported by the Straits Times as having said:
“We have our own Young PAP website for the politically inclined… The p65 blog is to allow other young people to share their views, which are non-partisan, neutral and can be constructive criticism of policies.”
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I think the revamped P65.SG Blog is PAP’s internet platform to promote non-partisan views that favour the ruling party. It is a counter-response to TOC which is a non-partisan platform that promotes the Opposition.
Why should P65 be a counter-response to TOC? I mean, why should there be an opposition voice? Can’t P65 just let TOC, The Temasek Review and other be the voice of the people only?
If a PAP news letter editor has the cheek to claim no opposition needed in democracy, then by that same principle need not have a counter-response blog such as P65.
Oh… Does TOC promote opposition?
It’s a serious question.
No sarcasm intended.
So someone told a lie? Been dishonest?
Hi AlexTheGreat #3,
When I met George Yeo at Cambridge University in March 2009, he candidly said that TOC should join his side. It seems to me that in PAP’s eyes, TOC is clearly on the side of Opposition.
Oh does ST, AsiaOne and CNA promote the ruling party?
It’s a serious question.
No sarcasm intended
i smell a liar. like that also want to cover up…
If can hide things like that, imagine what other stuff they have also been hiding.
Unfortunately for them, they nvr arrange to “pakat”. If not that bugger might have gotten away with it.
From YPAP train to be like that, then when PAP oredi how? Not bad, i see how they groom YPAP’s. Very “commendable” indeed.
And to Mr Teo Ser Luck,
Please dont BS. One way or the other, ppl will know.
It is this Other mentality that is hampering the growth of maturity in our political landscape.
Why should everything be pigeon-holed into pro-ruling party or pro-loyal opposition?
It’s frankly quite irritating..
Hi (8) Loyola,
I do agree with you. It need not be a PAP view or Opposition view. We at TOC to share our own view as a citizen of Singapore.
Whichever party that cares about Singaporeans should be open and just listen 1st instead of jumping to defend themselves.
correction: We are at TOC to share our own view as citizens of Singapore.
I can accept that cause majority of Singaporean support PAP, is good to have at least one from PAP otherwise the view won’t be balance without PAP representing. On the other hand I can’t accept if anyone of them is a member of SDP because less than 10% of Singaporean voted for SDP. This is what I call fair. Can we also know if any of TOC writter is a member of WP, SDP or the other opposition parties?
self pwned, ’nuff said.
You thought only the PAP were cowards, now you know even their youth wing are full of the same.
The media is all PAP liao. If TOC becomes PAP, then how? ha ha ha Do we really want to hear all the filtered news and they want us to hear?
To Pallo,
As the saying goes, “to take elders as an example”.
well, this case proves it. The YPAP’s learn to be real idiots like PAP.
So much for the “grooming”. Imagine, these ppl are potential PMs of sg. And behave like that?? jia lat. Well, these qualities must be all learnt from the father of PAP, a very very very suspiciousLEE looking old and senile man…..
Donaldson Tan ,
you are not alone. Do you know that Joanne Peh was invited to George Yeo’s home to “drink kopi” ? Of course, it is obvious that GY was inviting her to build rapport for PAP due to her popularity (only the naive will think otherwise), and making use of whatever star and fly. We know that there is no free lunch in the world especially this is something preach by the pappies.
http://joannepeh.com/2009/07/25/tea-at-ministry-of-foreign-affairs/
# 3) AlexTheGreat
#5) Donaldson Tan
TOC is a platform for those who wish to voice out their grievances and also for those many cases of injustice done which are either being covered up or not being publish in our local Stitty Time, MSM. So long as any public who are not happy with the ruling party and wish to contribute to TOC are being deem to be anti-govt or oppositions party in the eyes of those MIW.
Why should TOC promote opposition parties? Just because most of the comments here are from those who are unhappy with the rulling party’s ways of govt does’nt mean that TOC is siding with the opp. parties.
And if it is so, any opposition members can try to write something here that is negative and unreasonable, then you can see how the writers would just “PUI” you on your face, is there any so far? other than those from or within the papees party who are already receiving all the “PUI” remarks. Why? because these useless people talk cocks or make noise here just to impress their master only, what else? and this anger the bloggers here.
To Teochew Soh
Walk over not counted.
##4) Liar on August 17th, 2009 6.32 pm
So someone told a lie? Been dishonest?##
Business as usual.
Oops! why I wrote in support of TOC and kenna moderated?
TOC is out to promote the Truth…..something which the PAP can’t handle at the moment.
It would be interesting to see if there is clarification by the press on the matter.
And more importantly, is Everyone Aware?
While i am impressed PAP and YPAP is able to attract many talents,
I am sad at the same time to see these have not taken the path less travelled to join the Alternative parties to beef up singapore’s political landscape.
I also asked my Ah Boy to join the Young Pappies. Like that then got chance to become Ministar and earns $$$ mah.
Simi P65 lah ! Lon chon si wayang lai!
Son: Mum….can I have some paper?
Mum: Here you go son!
Son: Mum…Can I have more paper?
Mum: Here you go again…
Son: Mum…Can I have more paper please?
Mum: What do you want with all these paper?
Son: I am trying to hide a fire with the paper
Bambbling fools…..maybe
Just not meant to be in politics..but trying to get some connexions..you know.
I just went for a focus grp discussion to discuss the issues in NDR. I’m pissed immediately after i entered the room. The room is filled with bootlickers who are intend on licking the PM backside. No one had critical comment. Ser Luck even went all the way out to defend LHL whom he revered more than perharps obama? i wanted to raise the temasek issue, issue of Govt accountability to the public, the adjustment of Minister pay, the rising cost vs “just a job will do” for the average Joe but the environment were just not conducive. Irritating. Radio(malay station) also praise PM too much. Not too mention other MSM. Ask for feedback frm those already in a comfy setting. How can a nation improve? I dun see any relevance on LHL dressing to connect on the ground. I just want him to know that the Ministers pay and Top civil servants pay need to be reduce drastically —> reduce GST and all CPI. The cleaner in sch earn abt less than 1000 dollar per mth and have children to take care, how to survive? The graduate expected to work and earn high income for the family is told to settle for any job. Why don’t the Minister try? PAP stooges (I conversed with lots of them before) seems 1) obstinate 2) very assertive c) have a either i win or you lose attitude. This sort of attitude is the Ultimate Gunpoint that will show PAP to the pitfall in the future as refusal to hear extreme negative comments and do something about it will allow for a crack to exist without any repair in place. I am damn pissed with PAP people attitude. They should know better than to be too full of themselves.
Now, there is an auspicious start. Contradiction within party from Day One.
I won’t bother to check it out myself. TOC, kindly do so on our behalf and report anything worth discussing there. Many thanks!
at least im glad the old P65 is gone! A bunch of lazy so called MPs who simply cannot engaged the people from the ground!
@30) blackfeline on August 18th, 2009 8.42 am
Why U think nos. of NMPs has increased? More voices to walk the ground for the MPs so the latter can walk less, lah! Also, more NMPs fighting to make their presence be seen in Parliament means less time for the MPs to present something. Time for more Zzzz….
Hi Blackfeline #30,
I am not entirely sure if your statement applies on Dr Lam Pam Min. If you follow what he has been saying in Parliament, he has been advocating Medisave and Medishield to be more patient-centric , expand the parents’ medisave to cover their child’s congenital diseases and extend family assistance schemes to support single parents with children.
32)Donaldson Tan, are you Lam PM himself ?
Hi Blackfeline #33,
I am not Dr Lam PM. There are very few PAP MPs who advocate for change and welfare for citizens and workers. The Straits Times do not report about them. PAP does not encourage such behaviour too. But they do exist.
You know, I can’t wait to give the pappy a good debate on anything anytime. I am on the opposite side, I would say it straight to the puppies. So what if regulars on the TOC is on the opposite. We should be proud of it ! At least some of the writers are from the oppositions. Come on, I am sure some posters are like me, who are from the opposition. TOC, in my mind is certainly not neutral. If it is neutral, I would not have come in here. Whats there to be afraid of ?
28)jackliew,I was at the same dialogue with Teo Ser Luck. Thought it was an interactive and interesting session especially when he encouraged us to write in about the fare increase and how we should research on the topic. Some of the people raised good questions and comments. If you are afraid to ask these questions, don’t blame the rest of us who were there. We were not afraid to raise questions like GST and ERP when asked. To be fair to Teo, he explained and he did asked if we have any questions a few times and made an effort to get the discussion going. Whether it is PAP or not, i think it was a fairly good dialogue.
34) Donaldson Tan, you are trying too hard. Open your eyes, nothing has changed. If you are really Lam PM or even supporter of PAP writing this, I am very glad to see you guys fighting among yourself. This is what they call PAP integrity, by slamming your own for your benefit.
Just read the post by Vikram Nair, and here’s my 2 cents worth. (Well, 5 cents, since there’s no such thing as the 1 cent coin anymore)
The p65 blog looks PAP leaning, but that’s not surprising, given that it started off with 12 PAP MPs. So it’s only to be expected that it WOULD have PAP members, or at the very least, PAP supporters, and it’ll be quite foolish to expect otherwise. (I think the statement by Tang Ho Wan showed he was either 1. ignorant or 2. asking for trouble, cos these statements are bound to be shot at sooner or later)
TOC on the other hand, looks Opposition leaning. Simply browse through the posts by the various authors, and you find an overwhelming focus on the incumbent’s mistakes, with little, if any, consideration for their merits.
If you want a PAP opinion, go to their PAP website. If you want an Opposition opinion, go to the Opposition website. If you want something more in the middle, p65 gives a middle-to-PAP opinion, while TOC gives a middle-to-Oppo opinion.
As someone previously mentioned, it’s almost impossible to give a fully objective and “fair” opinion on any of our controversial issues. Because all articles are written by people, who, in all their entitlement, have their own views on the issues at hand.
Overall, I’m glad that p65 is PAP leaning just as TOC is Oppo leaning. Singaporeans, contrary to foreign opinions, have access to a very wide range of diverse views from Left to Right wing, pro-establishment to anti-establishment.
38) XiiAoGeNgEnX – well said ! *clap*
\\\35) joseph on August 18th, 2009 10.45 am
You know, I can’t wait to give the pappy a good debate on anything anytime. I am on the opposite side, I would say it straight to the puppies. So what if regulars on the TOC is on the opposite. We should be proud of it ! At least some of the writers are from the oppositions. Come on, I am sure some posters are like me, who are from the opposition. TOC, in my mind is certainly not neutral. If it is neutral, I would not have come in here. Whats there to be afraid of ?\\\
=================================
Dear Joseph,
I am also wondering is it ILLEGAL to support Opposition?
How can it be proven that people who support opposition must be WRONG?
Is existence of Opposition ILLEGAL / Unethical / Corrupt / Dirty / Sinful / Shocking ?
If so, what is done about it?
If so, is there a place for Opposition in the constitution ?
What is the Role / Purpose for the Existence of Opposition?
Does the People, so-called highly intellectual or educated, understand clearly?
If so, what have you done today? till date?
38) XiiAoGeNgEnX says it well. In other countries there is also the spectrum of views. Whether it’s UK, with The Times, Telegraph (some say the ToryGraph as it’s said to support Tories), or The Independent (which really is not that neutral).
Look at USA with the “fair and balanced” FOX News. Or the fair and very balanced Megan FOX.
Anyway… Wasn’t TOC’s domain originally registered by two Workers’ Party members, one of which spent the longest time claiming he “was not a WP Youth Wing member” (but actually WP), in what must be one of the most hairsplitting denials since Bill Clinton said he did not have sexual relations according to the definition…! Truly a wayang to make WayangParty aka TemasekReview proud.
The answer is to judge the website by its contents. No point claiming to be neutral if your writings are not. And a website with some “partisans” can still be genuinely fair, balanced and pro-Singapore.
TO 38) XiiAoGeNgEnX on August 18th, 2009 11.21 am :
You say that you’re happy that there is a diversity of views and that Singaporeans have access to various views.
But that’s only online my friend. What about our completely controlled local tv, radio and press that will only present and praise the PAP’s views?
Do you think any local newspaper will carry an advertisement for an opposition website?
Why were all the independent newspapers in Singapore closed down by 1990?
Singapore is ranked 144 out of 173 countries in Reporters Without Border’s World Press Freedom Index – only 1 rank above Rwanda!
We can type online all we want, but as long as the PAP continues to completely control the local media, Singaporeans DO NOT have access to a diversity of views.
“Singaporeans, contrary to foreign opinions, have access to a very wide range of diverse views from Left to Right wing, pro-establishment to anti-establishment.”
imho, only true on the kind of ground (e.g internet platform where only internet savvy come to roam) where our dear friend can no longer control or find it stupid to control. does this also apply to mainstream national tv and radio and public areas not only restricted to HLG.
43) R on August 18th, 2009 11.45 am
I quote “We can type online all we want, but as long as the PAP continues to completely control the local media, Singaporeans DO NOT have access to a diversity of views.”
Last time I checked, almost all Singaporeans have computers at home, and internet access was REALLY cheap. Furthermore, unlike in China, the Singapore govt doesnt block access to these websites with opposing views. As such, I’d believe that access to opposing views isnt really a problem.
I believe the REAL problem is probably the lack of Singaporeans who actually bother to read extensively online. But then again, our lives are probably busy to the extent that most Singaporeans don’t bother to read the newspaper anyway. Haha.
“40) joe on August 18th, 2009 11.24 am
38) XiiAoGeNgEnX – well said ! *clap*”
You may be able to fool others who are foolish enough to be fooled but you can never fool yourself – unless you are foolish yourself.
Straits Times did a big feature on The Online Citizen a while back. Who says there is no coverage. It was even a flattering feature, with a happy group photo!
“I believe the REAL problem is probably the lack of Singaporeans who actually bother to read extensively online.”
then do it on national tv and radio. online ? age groups ? TV prime time means better wider national coverage.
“But then again, our lives are probably busy to the extent that most Singaporeans don’t bother to read the newspaper anyway. Haha.”
newspaper ? ST ? so very very predictable ? busy ? i find it a waste of time & money to be paying for propaganda. and yes, only casually go through the free online version just to gauge – and to stress again only because it is free. but i pay more for some more expensive international magazine.
Why spend your dollar to buy Shit Times? I’d rather use that dollar donate to charity, at least more meaningful. Pay for that Shit Times report? Nothing but shit.
Wolves are now wearing sheep’s clothings everywhere these days. First the NMP now this! Blah! It’s desperate times for the PAP.
Would the response have been any different if he had not stated it openly and continued posting on P65? Eventually if and when it came out, wouldn’t we all be more enraged about the “cover-up”? We overlook the fact that he not only stated it, but he also did so of his own volition.
Not only that, but does being a member of the YPAP automatically qualify all your views as “pro-PAP” and therefore skewed? Personal opinions may differ from your affiliations. For example, you could be a student in School X and yet still prefer School Y. Or you could be a staff in Company A and speak against it after work.
Something must be said, however, for the opposition presence in Singapore and the response of the people towards them. Must we divide everything so cleanly, black and white, into “pro-PAP” v “pro-Opposition”? And why is there so much hype over PAP v Opp anyway? Are we even ready to support an opposition government? Or are we just watching the opposition because, well, they are the opposition?
number #33..stop using my moniker! Mr. Donaldson Tan…your Mr. Lam is just a foolish idealist who cannot take constructive criticisms…when we made pointed remarks to his posts..and if he didnt like them…all will be deleted! Period. So tell me..will i be interested in him? Not a chance.