We have to ask ourselves if transparency is an end in itself, or if it is the means to an end… If all our cards are revealed in pursuit of complete transparency, does that serve the purpose of having Temasek and the Government of Singapore Investment Corporation manage the reserves well?
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Who is asking for “complete transparency” from Temasek and the Government?
The people are asking for some light to be shed in the “complete opaqueness” that is the hallmark of how Temasek and GIC is run.
Even the Monetary Authority of Singapore issues a very basic balance sheet and profit and loss statement (without too many details) on the specific investments. All we know about Temasek and GIC is what we read from the foreign press.
A typical pappy trick to give you one/zero, black/white alternatives. How about the alternative of getting Temasek to show a highly summarised balance sheet, a summarised profit and loss so that at least we know how well (or screwed up) the highly paid management and board of these institutions are doing with the people’s money.
Majullah Singapura.
Its all very simple. If you have the audacity to compare Temasek’s performance with Bershire Hathaway’s to thump chest and declare that you are as good as the finest investors in the world, it is only right that you open your books to the same extent as Bershire Hathaway as we can see for ourselves how valid is the claim.
I can claim that I run as fast as Usian Bolt, swim as fast as Michael Phelps and play better basketball than Kobe Bryant. I can sing the song all day long. However, at some point, to be convincing, I need to start backing my talks and show my capabilities especially as the chorus of laughters directed at me grows louder.
And No, my defense that I am in the special forces and to showcase my secret abilities will compromise my ability to perform my secret missions will only feed the laughters, as if secrecy is indeed important, how would boasting it (what you can do) publicly have the same compromising effects?
I see less and less logic in the words of our leaders of late. I hope they are not underestimating my mental capacity. I am a product of the local education system and I sincerely hope my leaders do not sell my mental capabilities short.
Roy
The sad fact is that the MIW are already treating its citizens as idiots and openly.
Welcome to the paptrix.
Is democratic governance an end in itself or is it a means to an end? How about elections?
so Lim K W is saying we should sweep under the carpet about the massive losses and rising cost of living? and her cabinet should be operating from bunkers and bomb shelters instead of their ivory towers?
What she said shows that the people who are in charge of the people’s money do not have strong sense of responsibility and accountability. If our bankers also adopt such attitude, their customers will be so worried that they will not be able to sleep in peace at night.
The mentality of the ruling elites is that we know better than you, you just shut up and let us do the jobs for you. Don’t even try to question us, even if we are doing a lousy job.
If this mentality is not changed as soon as possible, I don’t know what will happen to our money in future financial crises. We really have to pray very hard!
It is the right of the people to know what the government has done to the money that belongs to the country. For all we know, the monies may have been transferred to some bank account that is churning interest for their families and cronies to enjoy.
Transparency is not a priviledge to be bestowed upon to the government. We have every right to see the books. By telling us that they cannot be transparent about the country’s reserves to us means that they do not trust the people that have contributed to these funds.
If these elites cannot hold themselves accountable for the losses in our reserves and be transparent about it, then they have no right to be our leaders at all.
Some simple questions, how do you expect the public to co-vest in Temesek Holdings?
Do you honestly believe Singaporeans are going to walk in blind with their monies?
Some people are upset? Really? I think the whole country is pissed.
Maybe it’s just some people who think there is something to cheer about….only lee hwee hua and some people
pls la
Well Well, that’s the words we should expect from people who has things to hide…
when you have things to hide, you will said that uncovering the truth doesn’t serve any purpose…come on, if the results is so good as they have claim in the past, they will have announce it and boast about it.
but part of the reason why the people wants more transparency is that our dear leaders has failed to perform up to standard, even though they have been blowing their own trumpets on their capabilities.
Lim Hwee Hua, you should just wake up. “does that serve the purpose of having Temasek and the Government of Singapore Investment Corporation manage the reserves well? ” The reason is clear, it is precisely their inability to do it, that’s why they are been question….you don’t wait for a bomb to explode before calling in the bomb disposal right?
this LHH is a joker just like LSS
transparency will serve the puporse of managing the reserves well, because with transparency, incompetence can be seen, and therefore replaced with competence.
Transparency is definitely not a means to an end. It is actually a means to a new beginning. We will like to know the annual financial results and not your day to day operations. In Lim Hwee Hua’s point of view, do listed companies need to publish their results quarterly or annually so that good corporate governance prevails and investor’s interest be safe-guarded? Will those listed companies like Nokia be compromised when their competitor Samsung reads their financial reports?
From the many confusing figures that are floated;
I gathered that Temasek in the 5 years before recession made $114B.
I gathered that Temasek lost $58B as of end last year.
I gathered that Temasek now has asset value of $171B.
So the seed fund is =$171B-$114B-$58B? = $-1B.
Wow no wonder HC cannot leave TH because she took a debt of $1B and made the asset grew to $171B.Of course, we know it is not possible. My question is how much money/assets are injected into Temasek during the last 6 years (5 years good + 1 year bad).
If the financials are transparent on an annual basis, we can all judge the performance of the funds and of its leadership and no need to make wild guesses. Credit will also be given where credit is due.
First of all, if she fit to be at this post. Talk rot and still draw big pay. Don’t be trick by them to co-invest into GIC or which ever funds. They had loss enough.
Yet another Minister talking rubbish.
Nobody is asking Temasek to fully disclose its commercial secrets. Everyone understands that KFC and Coca Cola are NOT going to publish their recipes on the website. We just want to know what the investment outcomes are. Is that too much to ask?
Another question: How much of the money that Temasek and the GIC have lost is CPF money?????? Or is this a secret as well????
Ms Lim, wakey, wakey!!!
Wonder why our leaders keep causing the people to cast aspersions at them for their abilities and integrities. Many Singaporeans are just asking for some basic informations of the investments by Temasek, GIC and GLC, few or none demand for comprehensive disclosure of their operations.
It is that risky for the people incharge just disclose some informations ? Singaporeans seem baffled by all the excuses offered.
patriot
A annual financial report is not a business plan. So no revealing of your actual execution plans and strategies ( I doubt there are any in the first place given all eggs in one basket track record with the banks); no showing of any of your cards.
In the spirit of IR; coming to my poker table to play doesnt mean you show your cards but surely you have to show me you have the money.
Seems like those $$$ are not even there anymore to disclose them to you after so many different figures are being mentioned, so which figure is the correct one? or they are just “figures” plucked from the air just to tell you people that we have already answered your questions, or they are afraid that the people will just throw them out singapore when they found out the real truth. We are not talking about just those $billions profit you’ve made and lost back, we are concern of those $billions of cpf monies belonging to the people of singapore, our life long savings xoxoxoxoxox!
another stupid reply from an equally stupid minista!
MIW: Do what I say, don’t do what I do.
Peasant: Huh?! *sucks thumb*
“We have to ask ourselves if transparency is an end in itself, or if it is the means to an end.”
It is indeed sad that our ministers, the present one included, are so full of excuses. You ask for A, they tell that they cannot show B because of C and D. Lim Hwee Hua, this makes the People even more convinced that things do not add up.
Is it so difficult to understand that that CPF Board buys bonds from Temasek with our CPF money? Is it so difficult to understand national assets have been continually transferred to Temasek over the years and some assets like the 3 gencos (power companies) have already been sold? Is it so difficult to understand that the investment gains also belong to the People?
The People want to know the true extent of the loss, the role of the management that led to the loss, whether there is a need for a change in management to prevent future and worse losses, and indeed whether Temasek should be shut down. Transparency means that we ought to know these things even without asking for them.
to Lim Hwee Hua,
concern citizens are not asking for full transparency, just reveal more.
It is like a beauty contest, where participants reveal enough for judges and viewers to make reasonably accurate assessments.
And of course, the public understand some get to see everything…..and by that I am talking about TH and GIC.
Lim Hwee Hua will have to eat her own words because all businesses can now say the same to avoid taxation on profits. Tell the Govt, NO, you cannot be transparent in your profit & loss or you will be revealing your cards.
The fact is YES.
The public has a means to check if GIC is doing its job.
That the losses are not due to negligence and corruption.
That the earnings are not due to milking singaporeans. The returns should be made overseas.
The current losses (huge losses for a supposedly a pension fund) are a manifestation of the excessive risk taking.
We are not there yet.
How much does a foreigner like Mr Goodyear know after having helmed Temasek for few months – was it helming all the while with full transparency , translucency or opaqueness or you are trying to tell us any degree of these would not hinder nor impair his stewardship.
When he left – how much does he know and go together with him.
Why must it always be opaqneness with Singaporeans when, in fact , their monies are used for this kind of tikam.
Hmmm…. please 1 x STTA LBW is enough.
On second thought, is this a political setup to remove the one and only female minister?
transparency is not enough, there must be accountability.
It doesn’t matter who runs the show, but the person who screws up, should have the decency to take responsibility and step down.
Mas Selemat anyone?
Being a GIC and Temasek being business entities, there is no room for honest mistakes or half baked excuses.
All it shows that these people whose paid are pegged to the commerical world know nuts about how the commerical world operates.
it is like asking Units Trust and REIT companies to be ‘transparent’ and top 500 fortune companies to lay bare their strategies and divulge secret plans to compete.
Will that ever happens? NO but that does not relieve the MIW from ‘transparent’ enough to have accountability and responsibilities defined. And when things failed, to ensure that failures are identified and rectified.
To TOC Moderator
Please take out my comment no 24 completely by deleting it asap.
Thanks alot.
This kind of side-stepping and non-answer reply to the question of transparency by itself shows the deep-rooted psyche of evasion and non-revelation of the real truth for the interest of the stakeholders, i.e. the citizens whose money are being held at stake.
Such evasive behaviour only serves to make the people think less of and have less confidence in the people who are trying to run our lives and our country.
Because of the ease of being elected and because of the long duration that the PAP has been in power, these people have totally forgotten that they have been elected to serve the people and not the other way round.
It is, therefore, time for a real change. Otherwise these smart people who thinks they are smarter than the collective us would continue to behave as though they are the masters and we are the slaves.
I think Lim Hwee Hua has given an excellent answer that should be emulated by all listed companies on SGX.
“We have to ask ourselves if transparency is an end in itself, or if it is the means to an end… If all our cards (accounts) are revealed in pursuit of complete transparency, does that serve the purpose of having our directors manage the company well?” said a typical elite CEO.
Maybe Lim Hwee Hua can share her wisdom to enlighten lesser mortals: without full transparency, can there be full accountability, without which can there be full responsibility? Wait, wait, I know. “They’re just means to an end. Do they serve the purpose of having Temasek and the Government of Singapore Investment Corporation manage the reserves well?” Of course not…
> An Important Distinction:
TODAY reported that Lim Hwee Hua’s quoted comments were made to PETIR (PAP newsletter).
She did not make those remarks (to SINGAPOREANS) during her previous statements in Parliament.
How Pathetic And Pathetic (PAP):
Singapore’s FIRST female Cabinet Minister do not seem to know this important distinction — her million-dollar salary is NOT paid for by the PAP (as a political party) but by the numerous taxes/dues paid by SINGAPOREANS !!!
> Very Apt Internet Posting by a young Singapore Netizen:
” The PAP Government is soooooo….. TRANSPARENT, it is INVISIBLE !!!”
Well done! We have discovered another pap cronie and this time it’s a WOMAN!!
Guess we have had too many men who have proven they know nothing, lets try get a woman speak for us! I wonder if she were to satnd as an individual in a single seat perhaps against the Worker’s party Sylvia she will stand a chance. I wonder whether she is related in any way to the Lees?
Lets us for once hear the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth so help singapore! Afraid are you or fear you the people will know all the chit and crap that has been going on? Only time will tell. Election please have it now if you have the guts to do so!
Only 2 questions need to be answered.
1 .Minus all local investment, which TH have tremendously unfair advantage, what is the rate of return from all foreign investment since the first dollar was invested overseas.
If these funds were parked with BUFFET—what would be the return.
2 Have you forgotten that this is OUR MONEY you are talking about. We need to and we want to and have the RIGHT to know .–you are only the custodian..
PS DO NOT GIVE US ANY MORE BS
in that respect, maybe the question,
“does CPF contribution serve a purpose?”
makes some sense?
I don’t get it. Transparency is a right; it is not a goodwill benefit or entitlement. If transparency really leads to “an end”, that’s an aftermath that the officials are paid to take care of. Why pass the buck to the people?
tsk tsk tsk. LHH, may I ask how will being transparent compromise the job of TH & GIC when massive bleeding to the national funds have already occurred with being so secretive ?
In my opinion. I don’t think LHH is capable or knowledgeable enough to tell us much about balancing financial secrecy and transparency. She may only know that telling the public more than what they used to will immediately destroy the portfolios of TH or GIC.
our ministers still toking cok in this internet age. pls stop treating us like idiots, cos it makes you (the pap) look more like idiots.
Seems to me that THEY either REFUSE to understand what we meant, or they seriously have difficulty in English Comprehension.
Quite simply put;
If there is nothing to hide, there will not be any need to dide – or more elegantly phrased – opaqueness.
Hi Hua,
Can i ask you the opposite?
How can one expect transparency, when you can’t have freedom of speech, without being made bankrupt in singapore?
What does it mean to singaporeans IF
for whatever reasons given,
the people will never know what happened nor what will happen to
the reserves?
Is this healthy?
Is this ideal or wise?
Is it up to the decisions of the ruling p?
Will the gov never change , i mean what happens if opposition takes over , say in the next few elections time? The People allow the same practice and accept not knowing what exactly happened?
Who is the independent auditor? How is indepedence qualified ?
Like this till ETERNITY?
All the above, I feel strongly
that the Main Factor will be the PEOPLE themselves who delegates the power.
We the people.
Whatever kpkb people say here no use wan.
Its really the People who decides.
Look at the decisions they made.
It all about mandate and the executioner, so to speakie.
The gov is doing what they are doing.
Its the people who gave them the power to do what they are doing.
Is this clear or is this clear?
If you were to ask me, Lim,
“We have to ask ourselves if transparency is an end in itself, or if it is the means to an end…”
I would say, mee…. ooops, thats not what i mean. I mean:
We have to ask is Transparency not important?
What is the reason for Transparency?
Is this model sustainable for ETERNITY?
Should the same logic be applied to all other possible thingies?
What is the purpose of Audit?
What is the purpose of checking on Conflict of whatever?
What is the purpose of committee of inqui…. whatever?
Regards
Trustinator Bang Bang Yoto Silongo
next time just tell boss sick leave no need to submit MC, say “what purpose does the slip serve?”. you employ me, so must trust me mah.
This is the most lame excuse for covering up poor performance. If this argument is sound, all listed companies on stock exchanges can use the same argument not to disclose or report anything. Why do we pay such high salary for ministers that come up such lame remarks???!!!
PLEASE UNDERSTAND THAT,
1. They did better AS others lost more money,
2. They are into long term investment; BUT sell short term,
3. They buy high AND sell low.
MUST TRUST THEM, MUST TRUST THEM.
Did Lim Hwee Hua say GIC lost 41% of investments?
http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/02/did-lim-hwee-hua-say-gic-lost-41-of-investments/
EXTRACTED-
Blog Feature: Did Lim Hwee Hua say GIC lost 41% of investments?
Monday, 16 February 2009, 11:53 am | 2,549 views
Today’s blog feature is from Koh Choong Yong on his attendance of the recent Parliamentary debates and how Mrs Lim Hwee Hua had slipped up in revealing that the GIC had lost 41% of its investments.
Excerpts:
She also added that Temasek Holding’s portfolio fell 31%. When it was time for clarification questions, Ms Sylvia Lim rose to ask about the exact figure for losses incurred by GIC, since no specific number was quoted, while the 31% was disclosed for Temasek.
Mrs Lim Hwee Hua was stumped for words for a few seconds, stammered a little, mumbled something about “it was reported during the budget debate last week”, while frantically flipping her file infront of her to look for an answer. Sylvia Lim spread her hands in a gesture asking “what number”, and Lim Hwee Hua, after not being able to give a specific number, suddenly succumbed and threw out a number, “41%”.
The Speaker was nice to Lim Hwee Hua, seeing that she was not very sure of the number herself, and asked if she wants to clarify the number later. She took the opportunity, and since it was also time for the recess at 1520hrs, the Speaker declared that the Parliament go into recess.
As I stood up to walk out the public gallery to a much needed toilet break, I saw Minister of Finance Tharman Shanmugaratnam walk towards Lim Hwee Hua. He did not look fierce, but I assume she must be getting her earful from him right there.
I scoured Straits Times, Zaobao, Channel News Asia, Today, and found no mention of this incident. So if I did not attend the Parliament live that day, I would not have known such an episode happened.
Read Koh Choong Yong’s full blog post here.
Seriously, whenever I travel, I do not smuggle anything illegal nor hide anything questionable like mineral water in transparent plastic bottles. So, I guess you guys at the immigration has just got to trust me and take my word for it. My smooth passing in all checkpoints in my journeys just prove my point and reputation. There is absolutely no need and serves no purpose at all for the metal detectors, x-ray machines, body searches on me whenever I decide on an occasional R&R.
Trust me…