From the blog, Singapore Uncle trader:
On the topic of dirty money, a rather disturbing series of stories kept cropping up about Singapore’s close ties with the Myanmar junta. Back in October 2007, Singapore’s PM denied accusations that it is a money-laundering centre for the Burmese junta.
This issue was raised just a couple of days ago, this time by Earth Rights International, that the generals had transferred almost US$5B into two Singapore banks.
Whatever the case may be, Singapore has to strike the right balancing act. Comply too quickly with transparency requirements, and lose billions. Don’t comply, and risk being branded a tax pariah – and targeted for punitive action – by increasingly strident socialist governments …
Read the full write-up on Singapore Uncle Trader.
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There is a saying that Singapore is becoming like the banking secrecy countries of Switzerland, Liechtenstein and Luxembourg to name a few. Not to mention other tax haven countries like the Cayman Islands and Bermuda. Banking secrecy has always been linked to Private Banking. My view is that such practices are unfair and often involves criminal activities. It should not be allowed to happen in our shores. I will be very disappointed if such activities occur here.
I would like to also state that I am waiting for someone in this TOC website talking about Temasek making 1 billion plus in selling its Citibank shares. It would be interesting to hear. The website got a lot of articles slamming the government for making billions of losses on its overseas investments but its rather quiet on its gains.
So is this the website with just a 1-sided view on the Singapore Government and society? From its past articles, it looks as if it is. My advice is that again it should not if it wants to be a true citizens website, if this website wants to attract and retain more viewers.
So now Temasek has lost $38 billion instead of $40 billion. Kudos.
I dont understand why the Burma junta chooses to put money in Singapore, a close US ally. Not worried that the account will be frozen one day?
Our PAP government on the one hand is perceived to be a non-corrupt country in S E Asia but the undercurrents of activities are more deadly. How can Spore condone Myanmar and allow them to launder money into our supposedly clean bank. Only the government of LKY will know. Those involved will have to live by their conscience. When so many of the citizens of Burma are suffering under the hardship of the military junta.
Steven Law’s and Cecila Ng’s names had long linked to many illegal transactions and business with Burma but our government closed not one eye but both eyes to it. Why? Good corrupted money coming into Spore. There are foundations to many truth in the world body’s and US investigation. Denying by our government is not the option. We need transparency.
The price we citizens paid for keeping the PAP regime for 50 years. Let us do it right and Dare to Dream, (using Chee Soon Juan’s book title). Let us decide our destiny in the next election.
We Singaporeans of our motherland, need a strong mandate to vote PAP out of the government. We all know WHY?
Doesn’t matter whether perception or reality, or what the rights groups, etc say, or whatever. So what?
Most important is there is money flowing in which can boost economic growth, property prices and a haven for the foreign rich. We have F1 racing, casinos to be opened soon so what is money laundering?
And politically PAP remain very strong and US is still very friendly to Singapore due to our air and sea base servicing their Far East fleet. And also our billions invested with the US banks and lost. Maybe this is the price we have to pay for US to close one eye and be friendly to us!
And these will continue for a long long time.
1) Ghim Moh resident
Unfortunately, banking secrecy laws do afford a certain level of protection to “dirty money”. It happens. If we want to replace Switzerland as the private banking capital of the world, then that is the price we have to pay.
FYI, Temasek did not have any investment in Citibank. It was GIC that invested in CItibank and UBS.
There really aren’t any meaningful gains that Temasek has made to write about in the first place. The recent rebound in asset prices does not count as “gains”. Temasek is however, the laughing stock of the global investing community.
If Temasek is the laughing stock of the global investing community, then on what basis does its CEO become one of the top ten most powerful woman in the world ? Did Forbes accept any bribe for ranking most powerful woman in the world ? If Temasek is the laughing stock of the global investing community, how on earth is the Singapore Finance Minister still holding on to his job ? In any first world country, finance minister must resign for failing to discharge his duties properly.
our new economy …
NEWater – purify our pee
NEWmoney – wash blood money
NEWpeople – import foreign talents
Once a wise great man did said
“It doesn’t matter if a cat is black or white, so long as it catches mice.”
Sad that our old man apply it wrongly here.
i assume sg has nothing to hide. So it should comply. real gold no scared the fire.
Singapore as a country without natural resources, has to be innovative to stay ahead of the game.
Now, what is the game? Who invented the game?
The reality of this world is more than meets the eyes.
To #6 commenter on September 27th, 2009 4.56 pm who asked,
“If Temasek is the laughing stock of the global investing community, then on what basis does its CEO become one of the top ten most powerful woman in the world ? Did Forbes accept any bribe for ranking most powerful woman in the world ?”
Forbes is right that the CEO is a powerful woman. Which woman can lose $40billion of her husband’s company’s money and still keep her job? Powerful, isn’t she?
To commenter,
I hope your comments are meant to be satirical… else I would think you are a primary school kid…
To Ghim Moh resident,
Seriously, GIC has nothing to be proud of on that particular investment… It is more luck than anything else.
Check out how the foreign media thinks about Citi’s stakes in the link below.
http://singaporeanskeptic.blogspot.com/2009/09/who-is-responsible-for-gics-profit-tale.html
Ghim Moh resident , guess you just got owned…
and look….perhaps I can put it into perspective….when GIC and TH earn money, do we benefit from it? maybe indirectly in a unforeseeable way…and when they earn, it is their leader that gets the credit and the bonuses…
However, what happen when the lost occurred and is realize…the part that is contributed by the people could be gone…and TOC finds it as their responsibility to cover this topic as it concerns the people.
Now Gim Moh Resident, why don’t you go ask the MSM this, why is there a lack of coverafe and questioning when the loses occur and yet proclaims it all over the place when they make a profit…why don’t you take your advice and provide it to MSM instead? there is no point accusing one of this yet closing an eye to the other
Ghim Moh – try to differentiate between GIC and Temasek first…
There is money laundering going on in Singapore. While the private banking giants like SG, DB and UBS want to appear to have their hands clean as they’re accountable to their head offices back home (and therefore likely to lose their jobs if found responsible for creating a liability for their employer), OCBC, DBS and OUB have lots of leeway to help funds turn from black to white as we have a large family of related companies – many with partial or majority ownership traced back to Temasek, GIC and a few other older companies. Ever wonder who all those DBS Nominees and OCBC Nominees who hold so many shares are? Ever tried to find out? Ever realized you can’t get any more info??
In SAF terminology, this would be a cluster-f**k.
From the audit perspective, this would be a qualified opinion all the way because of the inability to explain away unknown loans going out and “investment funding” coming in from unclear sources.
However,if PWC, EY and the rest want to survive in Singapore, they have to play ball and not ask too many questions. Same for the local banks. Sure, they’ll begin to ask, “Where is the money coming from?” and other requirements of due diligence and “Know Your Client” (KYC), etc but as long as you can give a plausible excuse, you can bring dirty money in and send it out just as quickly. If it’s in USD, just gotta keep it below radar with smaller remittances as the US Treasury monitors all large USD movements (seeing that it has to be routed through NYC).
I’ve spoken to a few Burmese folks. Though it’s only their opinions, it’s still pretty clear many know of this. I guess the reason Singapore’ll never press hard for sanctions is the knowledge that if Singapore doesn’t do it, someone else will…so why not get the easy money to come here since it’s gotta go somewhere??
If sin was flammable, this government would have many individuals combust spontaneously.
@10,
Maybe she’s got a henpecked husband. Useless bum!
If PAP don’t accept the dirty money into our bank, how to pay their dirty scaled salary? Isn’t it logical?
What PAP is trying to say that even the bankers can try to bring in the dirty money into our shore, but without MAS approval, bankers can’t even get any profits out of it. Thus, this justify why the ministers should be paid with upscaled salary to that of a private sector.
[i]i would like to also state that I am waiting for someone in this TOC website talking about Temasek making 1 billion plus in selling its Citibank shares. It would be interesting to hear.[/i]
right and you were expectin a bonus paidout with a pad on your shoulder for buyin the citibanks $hares perhap$?
so temasek inc makes 1 billion or 2…
what bout the lost of the remainin $50billion$ or more?
you know the british banks..the asians banks….
win you boost out LOUD
loss you asked you filipino maids to sweep under the carpet?
opps.. i forgot to add my version of the lauderin topic here…
singapore has been DOING lauderin over the years in many forms…
let me teach you the china chinese version…
let says i closed a deal with you in china
bein a china chinese..no deals is official open…
in chinese slang…cant chien can hou…
not lookin front not lookin back…but see money$ see thickne$$…
you simply cannot sta$hed a bundle into a brown bag and hanover under the table liked the good ole days in shanghai starbuck cafe…
you will be shot right on the spot……….
in today technology..it fast its cleaned its legal………..
how?
i tell you from a chinaman view.. i send my kid to singapore to study…how stupid or whatever is NOT your concerned…your job is to topup his little posb savin account through the atm machines every endofmonth…
now which atm machines ever asked for your depositor particular when you banked in?
any more free lesson today?
It is going to be a difficult period for Singapore. For many years, she has been collaberating with the western masters to get where she is now. Now the western masters are having problems of their own and the tide is turning they in return also need help. Who do you think that they would turn to? What goes around must come around. If all these years PAP has been emotionally black mailing singaporeans with “rejoining the north neighbour” or “your sister n mother wiil be working as maids” so on and so forth. Now it is their turn. Little by little such news of money laundering and maybe the case of Soverign Funds with deep pocket trying to maddle in other countries ecnomy started to crop up. It is a form of black mailing as well. You don’t play our game (the western master) e.g. buy our bonds, currency etc. we will go after you on these issues.
Monetary easing is no longer a secret for the US. They have been doing it like no body business. The UN has started to call for new monetary policy and international currency to replace USD. Of course country lke Singapore and other western allies would refuse this, since they hold too much USD to let it happens. For if it is happening most would lose one third of their value. Plus if it happens all hell wil break loose for SG as well, maybe and just maybe, the emotional black mailing will take effect.
17) singapoorismybrand on September 28th, 2009 11.01 am
loss you asked you filipino maids to sweep under the carpet?
At least these filipino does a honest day job and with dignity. Can Ho Jinx and and gangs say the same for themselves.
all dictators of the world will always want to make friends and help each other because they know damn well, one less dictator means one more possibility that of being targeting next by democratic group.
One assume that as long as the PAP regime maintain its pro USA policy, they will will be safe from American intervention in its interanl affair. So far that assumption is correct but the world is changing. With the Northern Passage between Asia and Europe becoming a reality soon, the importance of Sinkapore will lessen and the American will be looking for for new ally in North East Asia. The European is no longer a strong pro American ally that would agree with all American policies and actions. Very likely, the European would be the one that would propose strong action against money-laundering. It is a short sighted policy for short term gain with long term consequences. We rely on trade and tourism and many ethical companies and tourists may decide to exclude Sinkapore from their plan. There are a strong movements in the West, to persuade companies and tourists to exclude such destinations in their itinerary.
Looking at the big smile of BG Yeo, one can be sure the PAP links with the Burmese junta goes far back.
Recently the junta killed thosands of monks and protestors. These are documented in the following:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/14568106@N03/
If the PAP government is extremely friendly with a junta that slaughters its own citizens like animals, it is not difficult to imagine what the PAP government thinks of the average Singaporean
Hi fellow citizens, i think you don’t get my point.
If you want to talk about losses, how about its recent Olam investment.
23) JW on September 28th, 2009 4.56 pm
Recently the junta killed thosands of monks and protestors. These are documented in the following:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/14568106@N03/
Ever wonder who supplied the weapons and all?
12) Yamamoto on September 28th, 2009 2.19 am
Ghim Moh resident , guess you just got owned…
and look….perhaps I can put it into perspective….when GIC and TH earn money, do we benefit from it? maybe indirectly in a unforeseeable way…and when they earn, it is their leader that gets the credit and the bonuses…
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I would like to ask why you expect to benefit from it? Nothing is free in this world. Look at the countries around you, anything is free? Just look at the United States. They thought recovery is near. They will be really wrong, its only just the beginning. Yes, they print free money but look at their exchange rate now. Look at our exchange rate.
Yes, you will benefit in life but you need to work hard, save hard, invest wisely then life will be better.
5) Francis Hoe on September 27th, 2009 2.45 pm
Unfortunately, banking secrecy laws do afford a certain level of protection to “dirty money”. It happens. If we want to replace Switzerland as the private banking capital of the world, then that is the price we have to pay.
FYI, Temasek did not have any investment in Citibank. It was GIC that invested in CItibank and UBS.
There really aren’t any meaningful gains that Temasek has made to write about in the first place. The recent rebound in asset prices does not count as “gains”. Temasek is however, the laughing stock of the global investing community.
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Hi Francis, i think you didnt get my point either. By the way are you sure Temasek did not have any investment in Citibank when everyone here says they are so secretive. Are you sure?
13) T on September 28th, 2009 8.38 am Ghim Moh – try to differentiate between GIC and Temasek first
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Can you differentiate between the 2 companies? Honestly, i not very sure. Maybe you can tell our fellow viewers what is the difference between this 2 companies.
11) fighter on September 28th, 2009 1.35 am To commenter,
I hope your comments are meant to be satirical… else I would think you are a primary school kid…
To Ghim Moh resident,
Seriously, GIC has nothing to be proud of on that particular investment… It is more luck than anything else.
Check out how the foreign media thinks about Citi’s stakes in the link below.
http://singaporeanskeptic.blogspot.com/2009/09/who-is-responsible-for-gics-profit-tale.html
=============================================================
I would like to comment this too. This website link is singaporeanskeptic,.blogspot.com. How can you put in the way as thats how the Foreign Media think.
Furthermore, the link tells you, this website is not going to have unbiased view of our country. Sources of information is very important and the writer too. Even the company the writer works in is as important. That’s media.
26) Ghim Moh resident
Nope, we are not talking about the lost. We are talking about your criticism of TOC which is unjustified. Accusing TOC of just posting 1-sided view…
Look GMR, did you see the MSM covers the FW issue, such as the “attempted kidnap” of some workers and their terrible living condition? No you don’t. but you see it here in TOC…and yet you can pop in here accusing TOC of been 1-sided…so i take it as you didn’t get their view.
Part 2 for 26) Ghim Moh resident
Why did you just quote my first point and not the other? was it trying to put words into my mouth?
When did I say that we want benefits from it? Hello…please read clearly before you attempt to shoot yourself off. Perhaps you didn’t understand it….but here goes again…when there is a gain, the people don’t benefit *which i don’t care” however when there is a lost, part of it comes from the people and that’s why we need to care, got it GMR?
Yes yes, thanks for your reminder….and let me share with you that I have done that and I am comfortable in life. But why did GMR start sprouting stuff when his first point has been rebuked? Moreover putting words into my mouth!!!
Geez, GMR, please please read the two paragraph before you jump to your conclusion…When you don’t what you do is just like an empty vessels
Not sure whether Mr Francis will reply to 27) Ghim Moh resident
But here goes, let me try it…
Mr/Miss GMR….what happen when GIC earns a profit in citibank? they jump up and down and proclaim the “success”
So if TH manage to pull it off, don’t you think they would have done the same especially when the credits can be given to HC?
Got it? Before you question others, please read all the way through and think all the way through…thanks for the good laugh
29) Ghim Moh resident
I think you failed to get it again…he is implying that foreign article from Wall Street Journal especially with regards to this phrase “The favorable terms secured by GIC in the Citigroup bailout could give it bragging rights at home in Singapore.”
Oh and back to whether TH has stakes in Citi, perhaps this will help a little?
“The city-state’s other major state-owned investment arm, Temasek Holdings Pte. Ltd., lost billions of dollars on its stakes in Merrill Lynch & Co. and Barclays PLC. Temasek sold out of those holdings in late 2008 and early 2009 before banking stocks staged a recovery.”
So did you jump to conclusion without reading from start to end? or is it a case of selective perception?
“If the PAP government is extremely friendly with a junta that slaughters its own citizens like animals, it is not difficult to imagine what the PAP government thinks of the average Singaporean”
While junta slaughter its citizens physically (after all their citizens are even too poor to pay for their live), ours slaughter the citizens financially and gradually.
“I would like to also state that I am waiting for someone in this TOC website talking about Temasek making 1 billion plus in selling its Citibank shares. It would be interesting to hear. The website got a lot of articles slamming the government for making billions of losses on its overseas investments but its rather quiet on its gains.”
Seriously, do you want the people to talk about the gain when in fact it is a loss ? eg If you put invest $10 and get back return $3, do you still call it a gain ? Why make you think it is a gain/profit in the first place ? From ShittyTimes ? How much did they invest in Citibank initially and how much they get ROI ? Up to 30 years like what Old fart says ?
“So is this the website with just a 1-sided view on the Singapore Government and society? From its past articles, it looks as if it is. My advice is that again it should not if it wants to be a true citizens website, if this website wants to attract and retain more viewers.”
So be it. No one stopping you from voicing out about what’s good about the SIN gov as long as not some highfalutin nonsense such as “we own it to our PAP government whether we like it or not. PAP is accountable enough because they built affordable HDB flat.”.
Thanks for your statements.
I think you need to relax a little.
What you have said is very well-known already.
Please don’t tell me this website is not 1-sided.
Feel it.
P.S. Yamamoto is the Japanese General that murdered so many Singaporeans 60 plus years ago? I do feel uncomfortable with that.
“FYI, Temasek did not have any investment in Citibank. It was GIC that invested in CItibank and UBS.”
Did someone forget our clowns are master of using third-party. How about indirect investment rather than direct investment ?
To TOC, hope you understand why I made these comments.
My comments may be unpleasant to hear but I believe its for the better of this website.
Cheers guys.
“Please don’t tell me this website is not 1-sided.”
But then no one tell you that TOC is 1-sided or double-sided. You be your own judge to the article and comment. TOC says that it welcomes article of any side, so why not just submit your “non-1-sided” article then, no one stopping you. Everyone is free to submit their comment to TOC regardless of how many sides it has (well, whether it get censor is another matter…LOL)
“P.S. Yamamoto is the Japanese General that murdered so many Singaporeans 60 plus years ago? I do feel uncomfortable with that.”
In the same way, just because you don’t feel comfortable with the name doesn’t mean the rest should feel the same way as you. Similarly because you feel that TOC is 1-sided doesn’t mean it feels likewise for others. Whose know, it may even feel multi-sided.
This is the freedom (unlike ShittyTimes) that makes TOC popular. Probably the reason why you are here too (or is this not ?)
Ghim Moh resident:
“Please don’t tell me this website is not 1-sided.”
What’s your view on the style of the MSM?
You should learn to respect the people’s decision.
The Readers write what they feel.
They are not forced to write what they wrote.
Can you respect honesty? can you respect the Readers’ honest views?
Should people all think like you?
Are you that great?
What is wrong with honest views that agree to disagree with your kind of mentality?
CAN U HANDLE THE TRUTH?
y/n?
The Topic reads: Dirt Money in Singapore – perception or reality?
Can we Assess What We Dont KNOW?
“Can we Assess What We Dont KNOW?”
Since only NOBODY knows, who to say that the assessment is wrong anyway ?
Daniel, you are not wrong either.
So, when we say so and so is a good person, how accurate is that?
There are many times when initially, based on impression we give a benefit of doubt someone is right until we get cheated or found out he actually has dark side which he of course will not show it.
So, we cannot assess what we dont know.
and
you are also not wrong.
The point i am making is, we must not insult our intelligence by BELIEVING what we dun really know.
TRUST is a 5 letter word.
There are many reasons why a person does not really know:
1. lack of info.
2. not sure where is the info.
3. info access denied.
4. info not released.
Somebody knows. but most dont. most can only base on trust or impression they get.
39) Ghim Moh resident
“My comments may be unpleasant to hear but I believe its for the better of this website.”
TOC’s articles may be too unpleasant for you to bear but I believe it is for the best of Siingapore! Carry on Standing up & Speaking up is the way to go.
Ghim Moh resident,
I am feeling it, and that’s my perception. Take note that I never force my perception on you and ask you to feel it…so what’s your perception of MSM…Don’t tell me it is not one-sided..
Ghim Moh resident,
Well, Btw, I hate to say this, GMR, but before you comment and link my nick to a war criminal, you need to get your facts right *as usual* .that Japanese General you are talking about is the Tiger of Malaya, Tomoyuki Yamashita, not Yamamoto. Yamashita(山下) is not equal to Yamamoto (山本). Understand? And I request for an apology as you are very inconsiderate to link me to a war criminal.
I think GMR had forgot that our old fart actually work for the Japanese in WWII in translating for the Japanese imperial army. GMR, wake up your idea! If there is anything one-sided, GMR you definately fit the profile.
I really think GMR is one of those that likes to jump to conclusion and assumption way too fast before trying to get the facts correct… from all his mistakes (assuming GIC to be Temasek, Yamamoto to be Yamashita), as well as my intention to link him to a wall street journal report posted in Skeptics.
Added to that, he refusal to acknowledge any of his mistakes goes on to show his character.
He is exactly the sort of people who will blindly believe what MSM chunks out… After many years of brainwash, I suppose there is little point trying to engage in meaningful arguments with him.
Ghim Moh resident is the out come of years of reading Straits Times or any of the SPH, watching Media Corp news or one of its “serious” programs.
Like cigarette boxes carry a warning label “smoking causes cancer”, SPH newspapers should also have a warning label “PROLONG READING OF SPH PUBLICATIONS CAUSES BRAIN DAMAGE”, or something like it.