Gilbert Goh / Syndey, Australia
I joined the demonstration held outside Parliament House on 2 Sep (Wed) at 2pm, Martin Place Sydney together with more than 100 international students. They were calling for fairer treatment of foreign students in the areas of protection from unscrupulous private schools, longer working periods for international students, and from racial abuse.
Several TV news network were on hand to cover the protest, promising the possibility that the event will be broadcast to the whole nation to witness.
The foreign student industry is a huge money spinner for the educational sector, amounting to around $15 billion. The Australian government has allowed an explosion in the number of shady private colleges. This has created a boom in the international student sector amounting to more than 170,000 students in the vocational, education and training (VET) sector. A third of these students is Indian.
Lack of regulation has put students at risk. Since 2001, the number of private colleges has leapt from 664 to 4892. These colleges are capitalising on the desperation of international students to get permanent residency, charging tens of thousands of dollars for placement fees for dodgy VET courses.
This is my first peaceful demonstration outside Singapore. Though a dozen police officers surrounded the small but noisy gathering at the busiest business district in New South Wales, I never felt more safe and proud that people here could protest in peace on issues that matter to them. Freedom of speech is a very precious democratic entity here which I can never find back home in Singapore.
Organised by the CCCC (Cross Campus Concessions Coalition), representing tens of thousands of international students from abroad, student union leaders addressed the crowd with loudhailers. The crowd made up of students from India, Malaysia, Thailand, Singapore, Korea, China, Indonesia, Taiwan and Africa. After the protest, the students marched peacefully down Martin Place carrying placards, banners and flags.
Incidentally, The Australian Greens have called on the Federal Government to introduce a national concession card for local and foreign students. Currently, international students pay full adult fare while travelling on Sydney’s expensive public transport whereas local students pay concessional rate. A return trip to the city by train costs around $5.50 after peak hour.
Greens Senator Sarah Hanson-Young said that NSW and Victoria didn’t offer international students public transport concession cards and it is time that one was created for all undergraduates and postgraduate students for use across the country.
A Senate inquiry hearing into the welfare of international students takes place in Sydney today, Wednesday.
Among the issues student leaders raised today at the protest outside Parliament House include:
1. Stricter protection for international students, especially when several private schools closed down last month with no sign that school fees paid by students will be returned. I remember a similar incident in Singapore. Brookes Business School closed down when the principal admitted to issuing bogus degrees issued by RMIT. The major difference is that students here could protest in the open outside Parliament House whereas our international students in Singapore could not do the same without facing the possibility of being arrested.
2. Racism affecting the Indian students during the past month that could trigger reprisals. Several Indian students shouted “Down with racism” angrily when student leaders spoke on the sensitive issue. Being a typical kiasi Singaporean, I looked for the nearest exit point in case the crowd turned violent but nothing of the sort happened.
3. International students now can work part time for a limited 20 hours a week and face deportation if they exceeded that limit. Many students secretly work longer hours as they cannot cope with the high cost of living here. Student leaders are calling for the limited hours to be extended further.
I learned a lot from my first protest march outside Singapore. I felt a sense of pride that young students representing the future of the world could muster up enough courage to come out and speak up on what they believe in.
I wish that our young university students back home could do likewise.
——
Yap…remember doing that when Uni Fees went up….burnt an effigy of the dean.
Then came the aboriginal protest….
Then for increase in price of beer….
Student politics was very fun….and must add fair…
Unlike here…reading some article makes you sick and yet people don’t even vote the opposition in…my..my…wonder what will trigger Singapore into a Japan.
Thanks, Gilbert. That’s a very detailed narrative. I can almost smell the air of participation.
It will be wonderful if more Singaporean studying or working overseas could send reports on such events to show that it can be normal, rational and even patriotic to show dissent and discontent when such protests are due.
The act of protesting to express injustice goes beyond whether it is democratic or not. After all, from several news sources, we know that the public in mainland China have carried out mass protests in the face of violent government suppression. That doesn’t stop them to do so, though I admit some of their grievances are way grave and in need of being corrected immediately.
What is unique about Singapore is not just that protesting is legally prohibited, but the various machinery of the incumbent and the complicit bureaucrats have made us afraid to protest, to express dissent and discontent over time, not only politically but in school and at work as well.
Agencies such as the mainstream media and consumer rights organizations are also equally guilty by presenting a facade of contentment and only permitting mild dissatisfaction, to the extent that some officials and political representatives and members of the public truly believe that everything’s fine and that there are due processes and channels to express authentic opinions.
Come to think of it…No wonder China is so keen to send their bureaucrats and party cadres to learn from us!
Eric
Gilbert come back to S’pore to do something for the people. Are you afraid PAP
will put you under arrest invoking ISA.? Do not quit on your motherland. I have
a verbal agreement with you remember when we chat on the net.
Australia is a real democratic country unlike S’pore. Freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, etc are curtailed.
Singaporean are a suppressed lot. Yet we are not voting in the opposition to
have more voices to unify our stand of citizen’s freedom.
Vote for a change. The ruling PAP is more vulnerable now.
3)leejuanpat
Ok we can go for kopi np pal:)
Take care.
Gilbert, how will you feel when you return to Singapore and no longer have the right to protest about the inequities you see?
Damn it does the socialist alternative have to hijack every single protest in sydney?
they’ll use a car crash to canvass against capitalism.
That said ive been to two protests in sydney . One was against the Israeli incursion into Gaza and the first was a massive protest held during APEC. During the APEC protest i saw tonnes of granny’s and kids marching as well. And some parts of the march almost had a carnival atmosphere, which was strange.
The police and actually close down sections of the city and redirect traffic to enable the protests marches to take place. Instead of banning protest marches, Sydney normalises them, so that they are to an extent pre-planned and dont cause much disruption. You might argue that its a way of neutering their effectiveness but i think its a very good compromise and a really good approach to allowing people one more avenue for civic participation.
Interesting article Gilbert, and well documented too. Haha anyway just my 2 cents worth on this quote:
“1. Stricter protection for international students, especially when several private schools closed down last month with no sign that school fees paid by students will be returned. I remember a similar incident in Singapore. Brookes Business School closed down when the principal admitted to issuing bogus degrees issued by RMIT. ”
1. The purpose of the Australian students holding a protest is to compel the govt to do something about the private school situation. Unfortunately, I don’t think this particular issue is a new one, and even more so, i don’t think this is the first protest over this issue. So to what extent are these student protests in Australia EFFECTIVE at compelling the Aus govt to act?
2. Singapore in contrast, does not allow protests over such matters. The good news however, is that MOE managed to do something over the Brookes case. They managed to transfer most of the students to other reliable institutions to continue with their course. Let’s not forget that such actions cost money AND it was a private matter in the first place. Personally I’m one for practical and effective solutions. I’d rather not have to protest and have my problem solved, rather than protest a lot, but nothing’s changed.
3. I’m particularly concerned about the way our foreign students are treated in Singapore. My friends studying/studied in Aus tell me the Aussies treat foreign students far better than how Singaporeans treat foreign students. Years down the road, when the anti-protest laws are relaxed, will we arrive at a situation where 30% of our population (foreigners, 1st generation citizens) rises up in protest over unequal treatment? I think we Singaporeans need to relook the way we’re treating our foreigners really soon.
Congrats Gilbert!
Being a 1st world democratic citizen, I could only wonder how Protest feels like.
I am proud of you.
If people wait, they will continue to wait.
If people voice up, their concerns can be heard.
Its a collective effort.
Keeping Quiet may mislead others as Acceptance.
People can use the silence as excuse.
Fully utilised, our brains can bring about the real Change we want.
May your efforts bear fruit.
Personally, I have witnessed the APEC 07 protest in Sydney, and it does have a rallying effect on a person’s views. And just as you’ve said, the media are all around the scene, and I remember watching the widespread coverage later on on the news.
Unlike what most protests appear on our Singapore television (intentionally or not), they are not violent at all, with no burning of effigies or similar sort of action. In fact, in this protest which was organised by some group supportive of socialism, there was this few people who held up placards saying “Socialism Sucks” and “Support Free Trade” (photo here). Nothing happened, of course.
(Related to the last point, I wonder what’ll happen if someone brings a “Support PAP” placard into an SDP rally?…)
9) Jackson Tan on September 3rd, 2009 10.06 am
HAHAHAH yeah that’ll be really interesting. Maybe we should try an experiment.
Bring “Support PAP” placards into SDA, SDP, RP, WP, NSP etc rallies, and bring “Support SDA, SDP, RP, WP, NSP etc” placards into PAP rallies and see the reaction.
I’m curious though. Anything like this ever happened before?
7) XiiAoGeNgEnX on September 3rd, 2009 8.41 am
“such actions cost money AND it was a private matter in the first place”
I think MOE act more for its own interests. Remember that Singapore aim to promote itself as a premier education hub. Furthermore, I think Brooks was MOE certified and Case Trust accredited. In this instance, MOE really had no choice but to do something regardless whether it is private or whether there is a protest.
“I’d rather not have to protest and have my problem solved, rather than protest a lot, but nothing’s changed.”
Try telling this to those Minibond, Jubilee or DBS High Notes holders who are left in a limbo. Until now, their issue had not been solved, nothing has changed as well.
Thanks all for your views on my article.
From what I can recollect from many of our official reasons for not allowing open public protests is the fear of violence and bloodshed on innocent demonstrators.
There is some truth here as APEC protests can be violent and people even got injured during the protest. These well publicised protests are often instigated by people with ulterior motives.
However, compared to the many thousands of small protests held worldwide by universities abroad, there is much peace and safety here. Police is notified and they often come more to ensure that things do not go awry than interfering in the student-led protests.
Of course, we can protest at our infamous HLP but looking at the small crowds and apathetic protests held so far, I am unsure how we can bring our passions further forward in a extremely materialistic society.
Taking a medicine does not mean no side effects.
Does this mean not taking the meds?
Change is the only constant.
Evil cannot prevail when he is but a human dictated by the laws of Nature.
Its a matter of Time only.
Lets come together.
Viva La Human rights!
#6 What’s wrong with protesting against the Israeli incursion of Gaza?
What’s wrong with protesting against the war against Iraq? Thousands around the world protested against in 2003. In Singapore, two women holding placards, silently voicing their protest against the war were arrested. In this instance, the collective moral conscience moved people to protest at what they saw a dubious reason to attack to Iraq.
Today, where is this Coalition of the willing? And its supporters? In 2003, these countries and its supporters were so cocksure and belligerent about going to war.
Is there a collective moral conscience among Singaporeans? Would we be able to rouse this when needed? Would we dare to? What does courage really mean?
Thankfully, young people today are more willing to voice their concerns and become social activists. They are the ones speaking out against animal cruelty, campaigning against sharks’ fins, whale sharks at RWS, illegal wild life trade; child-sex tourism; campaigning for an end to poverty; slavery; abuse of foreign workers. But they, too, are not the majority.
Hey Sceptical ( #16) i agree with what you said, but i dont understand your question.
I didnt say there was anything wrong with protests against what transpired in Gaza, i was just listing a protest i have attended.
Nice reporting and good to see that the protest, unlike some others, was peaceful. But allowing protests does not necessarily led to better governance or public policy. I think some societies over emphasize this right, as if it is a birth right and the magic bullet that will ensure justice, or good governance. The right to protest needs to be balanced by the inherent responsibility to ensure peace and other, and not all protesters understands this.
Strange, we sporean do not welcome foreign workers, foreign students and FTs over here in spore, yet our people went over to sydney to protest against unfair treatment to foreign students in aust. haha. Nothing wrong for aust for protecting their own countryman jobs, social welfare system, education right?
SY (#18),
I agree with you on that point.
Like you, I don’t fully agree that that a right to anything is a birthright, or by itself is a universal truth. If we look back, the emergence of human rights, as a universal entitlement, is a very recent development, only in the last couple of hundred years before it cumulated with the Declaration of Human Rights last century.
It is what we, as humans, collectively agree what everyone at the most basic level should have to lead a happy life. So beyond this shared agreement (and largely coined and crafted by Westerners, since the development, I believed, can be traced to the Reformation/Modernization of Europe several hundred years ago), there isn’t inherently anything moral or righteous about it. Having said that, I don’t think it’s wrong, or it should be abolished or poo-poo’ed. I just think many of us have conveniently forgotten that this idea of human rights is our own very man-made concoction and it didn’t come from nature or the divine, but from us. Borrowing the idea from the US Constitution, we cast human rights in writing and make them self-evident; and not that they are self-evident and that’s why we pen it down.
That’s my biased view – you can of course disagree. But I digress…
There is also this inexplicable fear of the tyranny and irrationality of the protesters. That once a crowd gathers, and over some tipping point, it turns into this amorphous monster that corrupts rational minds, fuels emotions and destroys everything in its path.
But you see, knowing how to protest en mass – in a civil, conspicuous way that still send a strong symbolic message to the protested – is not a natural skill. No one knows how to protest as a child. It is an art to be practiced, to be perfected but will never be perfect.
My own view is, if the authorities allow protests progressively, people will learn how to protest in a non-violent and non-destructive way. It can be a very liberating and enlightening political process for both the governing and the governed. It doesn’t have to be always chaotic, anarchic and non-purposeful.
What our politicians and our government have not learned is the art of negotiation with different civil-political bodies. Protests, when done “correctly,” not only educate them (and the public) in that, it can also improve our quality of civil-government engagement, and Singapore’s standing in the world.
You may say that protesting then may turn into a farce, into a wayang like in some countries. But if Singaporeans become more politically aware and educated in civil engagement, it is more likely that they will also learn to push the envelop in a civil, yet firm manner. Wayang may show up from time to time, but in general at least there is an authentic process of political dialogue; unlike now in Singapore, when it is contrived and underdeveloped.
I mean, if Singapore can be a hub for everything, why not also a hub for enlightened civil protests? ;)
Eric
Hi folks,
Sorry, I was referring to the Enlightenment period, or Age of Enlightenment, and not Reformation.
My bad.
Eric
Not that I am saying that they should try it,
overseas singaporeans (students, expats, dependents of expats) may have the chance to experience what a Protest is like. I am sure most if not all the countries they are living in now allows for protest in one way or another at least different situation than in singapore.
How does it feel like voicing up loudly in public? i am sure most of you have no experience in this aspect. complete greenhorns. can only imagine.
Imagine, if all of these come back one day with the new found Perspective.
But dun try this at home.
Hi Readers,
what we can do to change the mindsets of singaporeans is :
1. send a link of interesting articles to an email list consisting of all emails you can find in NAMECARDS. Send to anyone, to everyone. Email blast out.
2. Ask each one to email the same way.
Viral style. Overnight reachout to the masses. If done effectively, can Mobilize huge turnouts.
Get them to take a poll. etc.
Awaken!
7) XiiAoGeNgEnX
////So to what extent are these student protests in Australia EFFECTIVE at compelling the Aus govt to act?//////
Yes. The focus should be on the solution. If the AUS gov does nothing, all this is for nothing.
In a nutshell, I think that while protests should and will be allowed in Singapore in the future, it is not the “magic bullet” that will solve all our policy problems. There are far more EFFECTIVE ways to get things done.
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/rearvision/galleries/2009/2658096/image2.htm
I saw a similar picture in today’s Straits Times. The American healthcare system is probably one of the most widely protested, and LONGEST protested issue in their country.
The poorest 30% of Americans do not have healthcare insurance. When you don’t have healthcare insurance in USA, the hospitals will literally turn you away, even if your situation is critical.
This is despite America being the bastion of freedom of speech and democracy. Congress also has one of the most equal Opposition-Incumbent balance of power in the world. Unfortunately, the right and ability to question the system has not translated into EFFECTIVE change.
25) KopitiamApek
A protest brings out grievances to the public sphere, the media picks it up, broadcast it all over. Questions get raised in, and in a democracy, eventually, an amicable solution will be arrived at. Look throughout history, it always has worked.
26) XiiAoGeNgEnX on September 5th, 2009 4.20 pm
“In a nutshell, I think that while protests should and will be allowed in Singapore in the future, it is not the “magic bullet” that will solve all our policy problems.”
I think the enlightened intellectual would know that is not the magic bullet.
but the fact remains, it is something that should be allowed in exceptional circumstances where the public majority wants to express something on an important issue. without it allowed, many may not be able to voice up publicly for all to know about certain problems. people may be kept in the dark.
Eg. min bons. if 10k lost their life savings due to malpractice, as an example, should they continue to remain silent so as to preserve peace in hong lim park for people to pinic there?
Life can have unusual circumstances and thus this has a purpose .
26) XiiAoGeNgEnX
Street protests are depicted worldwide by the mass media and sadly we see a lot of copy-cat protests by illiterate citizens of 3rd world countries, usually being led (or misled) by a few leaders who knows how to manupulate these poors chaps into doing what they want.
I am always bewildered by people’s fascination of anything Western.
Western democracy
Western fast food vs Asian food (even though fast food is killing you slowly but surely)
Western coffee (Starbucks) vs local kopi (Thank goodness, now we have Ya Kun et al.)
Western medicine vs TCM (good thing TCM now gaining much respect it deserves)
For some people, their first experience of a public protest is also their last.
http://www.demotix.com/news/chaos-varsity-students-stage-street-protest
http://images.google.com.sg/imgres?imgurl=http://iran09.info/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/4774_96426680582_548605582_2341177_6163942_n.jpg&imgrefurl=http://iran09.info/category/images/&usg=__PS8LjmWV8othg-MhU3yHfJn56GY=&h=400&w=600&sz=57&hl=en&start=20&um=1&tbnid=TqLV6-wnB2xxAM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=135&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbloody%2Bstreet%2Bprotest%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1T4SUNA_enSG286SG286%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1
//KopitiamApek
if the suppression and injustice is really too much, protest is valid. so what if they die. Every revolution experience that.
Better than hiding behind a computer and serving an evil boss. There are other ways to make a decent living.
Or just taking in all the craps govt throws at you.
This is chinese (well chinese culture of many years ago) and look how backward they were stucked for so long.
The current chinese gen also protest. even after 6/4. They did that to BBC.
there is nothing western about protest. But protest is often a means to express displeasure against oppression.
Look at the silent protest outside MOM by our FTs when their employers don’t pay.
What is wrong with that ? At least mom didn’t think it was wrong. IT didn’t get those people arrested.
//29) KopitiamApek on September 5th, 2009 7.14 pm
//Street protests are depicted worldwide by the mass media and sadly we see a lot of copy-cat protests by illiterate citizens of 3rd world countries, usually being led (or misled) by a few leaders who knows how to manupulate these poors chaps into doing what they want.
As if only 3rd world countries leaders know how to manipulate mass opinion, some seemingly 1st world country leaders do that too. (we know who we are talking about).
George W Bush did that too to trick the Americans into approving the war against terror in Iraq and other countries.
Leaders over many generations have done that.
As if mass media is not trying to influence us with the video where LKY cried. Which happened 40++ years ago. I don’t know how relevant is that now.
The best solution is for the public to have a handle over their leaders. Vote them when the truth is out.
//XiiAoGeNgEnX
If those fts whose pay was not given by their employers and because of their protest, mom is helping them to apply the pressure, I don’t see what is wrong protest in that form.
We cannot even get mom to help us and FT managed to.
What ‘s wrong with using the same method?
27) crystrad
allow me to assign ref # to your post
#1
//////A protest brings out grievances to the public sphere,/////////
you are right here
#2 ///// the media picks it up, broadcast it all over. ///////
Western media yes. Non western world media?
So if Western media picks it up, it does not automatically leads to your point #4
if there is no “democracy” where the protest is held
#4 ////////////Questions get raised in, and in a democracy, eventually, an amicable solution will be arrived at. ///////////
#5 ////////Look throughout history, it always has worked. ///////////
This IMHO is a bit over generalisation.
So just because it works in US, does mean it works everywhere.
One examples that comes clearly to my mind is the anti war protest in US against the Vietnam War which got its desired results.
But always worked throughout history, I have my doubts.
32) wow on September
////// if the suppression and injustice is really too much, protest is valid. so what if they die. Every revolution experience that.///////
Is the suppression and injustice is really too much for you now in SG?
Are you willing to die for it?
34) wow
//// If those fts whose pay was not given by their employers and because of their protest, mom is helping them to apply the pressure, I don’t see what is wrong protest in that form.
We cannot even get mom to help us and FT managed to.
What ’s wrong with using the same method? ///////
Are you saying that no Singaporean had ever been helped by MOM to have their employment issues amicably resolved via means other than protest?
33) wow
Thak you. Precisely, you have reinforced my point. It is subjected to manupulation
by those in power who know how to use the “madness of crowd” to achieve their goal, which may not be congruent to the goals of the crowd,
//37) KopitiamApek
//Are you saying that no Singaporean had ever been helped by MOM to have their employment issues amicably resolved via means other than protest?
I am saying that, yeah.
The last case probably (by Singaporeans) probably dated back to 1990s.
Besides, the fTs can do that and they got what they wanted.
What is wrong with S’poreans doing that?
//38) KopitiamApek
//Thak you. Precisely, you have reinforced my point. It is subjected to manupulation by those in power who know how to use the “madness of crowd” to achieve their goal, which may not be congruent to the goals of the crowd,
This is a joke. As if those in power only manipulate the madness of a crowd to achieve their goals and crowds have no mind of their own.
Yet how did the berlin wall fell?
This kind of talk is like “Men can make women pregnant even though the women might not want to be, therefore we should ban sex between men and women”?
When there is a need to protest, there is a need to protest.
And no, I have not seen people deliberate wanting to go on the streets.
Might as well stay at home and watch dvd.
//37) KopitiamApek
//Are you saying that no Singaporean had ever been helped by MOM to have their employment issues amicably resolved via means other than protest?
I am not saying that.
I am saying that protest is a legitimate mean of expression as the chinese workers case has demonstrated.
I don’t know how can you think that MOM has not done their job.
I don’t know the answer to that but I do think protest is a legimate form of expression against injustice as in the chinese workers’ case.
//36) KopitiamApek on September 6th, 2009 8.40 am 32) wow on September
////// if the suppression and injustice is really too much, protest is valid. so what if they die. Every revolution experience that.///////
//Is the suppression and injustice is really too much for you now in SG?
//Are you willing to die for it?
I don’t know what I have written that inspire Ah pek with this talk about dying.
Apparently, there is sufficient injustice for the chinese workers to protest outside MOM and for MOM to help them.
As for dying for Singapore, I don’t need to receive your “teaching”. We will all know what to do when the time comes.
We don’t need to put up a show and declare this and that for the country.
You save your adrenaline for other more useful activities.
The fact remains that if it is legitmate to protest, it is good to do so.
And Singapore does not have the exclusive right to be the only spot on Earth where there is no injustice.
Therefore, when it is legtimate to protest, we should do so.
42) wow
//// I don’t know what I have written that inspire Ah pek with this talk about dying.///
you wrote in #32 “so what if they die”
42) wow
///I don’t need to receive your “teaching”. ////
I am just posting. Please do not feel that way. I am teaching no one. I am learning actually.
41) wow
////I am saying that protest is a legitimate mean of expression as the chinese workers case has demonstrated./////
Agree, It is not illegimate.
/// I don’t know how can you think that MOM has not done their job.
I don’t know the answer to that .////
Fair comment.
////Therefore, when it is legtimate to protest, we should do so. /////
This discussion started from the point if it is effective way, and I have posted my view on that,
40) FPC
////This kind of talk is like “Men can make women pregnant even though the women might not want to be, therefore we should ban sex between men and women”?////////
I admire your ability to connect the most remote irreleavant things to what I wrote.
Salute. Salute.
Cool it bro, are you on a vendetta against me or what?
Once I was part of a street donation drive along Kwan Im Temple precinct, and I approached this European tourist to explain our cause. He apologized, “Sorry, I will not donate, because I think your government is not giving enough.”
That statement led me to ponder my role in one of the many (thousands in fact) VWOs on this tiny island. I can still remember times when I struggle hard to decide if I need to ‘advise’ these needy families not to disclose their rental income, or their incomes of a few hundreds dollars (with the rental) might prevent them from getting subsidies.
That brings me to the rule of law. I’ve seen the criteria for the various subsidy schemes amended so rigorously over the years. Call it an attempt to fine tune our systems so that to maximize the benefits. Or rather these are just more and more steps taken to plug those tiny holes in our nation’s coffers, where traces of honey still drips into the mouths of hungry families below. I wonder. But there’s a curse in social service, that if you are too passionate and rigid, you won’t last the first year. I am fortunate to last 7 years…
Oh, there’s another so-called “Destitute Persons Act” to ‘take care’ of the ‘down and out’. And for those who still think we’re ok, there’s Murphy’s Law (”If anything can go wrong, it will”). Rant in coffee shops and cyberspace are mere talk no action, and protests are ineffective, so let just pray…and listen to Michael’s Heal the World, make it a better place.
Hey Kopitiam Apek. i dont understand why you think that style of democracy is western? do you know the political systems that most european countries had half a century ago?
And i really dont believe in an “Asian ” style of democracy , as if we have so much in common with China, India, Indo-China, Japan etc. Please , that whole essentialistic, asian values/western values debate is a really pathetic excuse
for paranoid authoritarian asian regimes to dig the bottom of the barrel for some kind of cultural legitimacy. cultures are not unchanging walled up entities under siege. Cultures are allowed to change and adapt apon contact with each other. The history of every culture is also the history of external influences and adaptation.
48) kpitiampunk
despite your state of denial, we cannot and will never be angmos, at most psuedo angmos.
I refer to Gilbert’s news coverage by OMY news:
http://news.omy.sg/News/Local%2BNews/Story/OMYStory200909101534-89662.html
after listening to the news, I realise that Gilbert’s advice is the same as what the press or the gonmin had been preaching.
TOC.
#49
KopitiamApek,
instead of making an attempt at an argument, u just said we can never be angmohs? you obviously meant this in a political sense so can you please explain?
what kind of of angmohs can we never be? Left-leaning europeans, Americans? neo-Imperialist russians? liberal americans? right-wing americans? scottish nationalists? spanish anarko-syndicalists?
what are we then ?
“Asians”?? ( is this defined by chinese confucian values? )
Please remember that the “asian” category was not created by asians out of some pan-asianism, but was created by colonials to bracket us together in the past.
I’m not sure how much Indian civilisation has in common with Chinese civilisation or malay civilisation. Im not even sure if any of these civilisations has a unified coherent spirit which you seem to suggest?
We have all come together in one country, ( might i remind you that many singaporeans have “ang moh” ancestry too) shouldnt we be trying to forge our own identity based on rational insights rather than kowtowing to ghosts from the past and running away from imaginary phantoms of the Western Other? I find your arguments really thin and flaky, if you can even call them arguments. instead of re-hashing the same rhetoric, can u defend your position instead?