Hahaha, this is like a man, telling the sun to stop moving, or telling the tide not to rise…

With all due respect, what credibility does our MSM have? when it is ranked at 151 by Reporters without Borders? and the status is classified as not-free….or perhaps i got it wrong credibility is not linked to freedom of speech?

This behavior is like a kid who is about to lose in a fight with his/her siblings….and run to papa/mama crying saying that he/she got bullied…

Sorry minister, when the words sound so empty, the more we won’t believe in it…

Good article, Shihan. But how does one critique the MSM and Newspaper Printing Act without critiquing the PAP’s compulsions to control everything, thereby ensuring that it will continue to dominate?

There is no such thing as a ‘balanced’, ‘objective’ press. It is a smokescreen. Let there be a plurality of viewpoints and let the public decide. No wait… PAP says it cannot allow that. Why huh.

Until that day when the ST acts as the fourth estate, ‘journalists’ like Clarrissa Oon will be nothing more than lapdogs and prostitutes (Not I say one ah.. is David Marshall say one). :)

And why did he just quote ” recent surveys by AC Nielsen and the Institute of Policy Studies, which found that a majority of Singaporeans used MSM as their primary news source and found it credible.” and not quote the “Table of Global Press Freedom Rankings” @ http://www.freedomhouse.org/uploads/fop/2009/FreedomofthePress2009_tables.pdf

Must be because one helps “give the image of credibility and popularity” while the other destroy it

balanced pro-PAP mouthpieces like the Straits Times must have balance with a anti-PAP newspaper. Then there is balance.

Why would PAP ministers allow ST to be really truthful in their reporting? Make no sense .. then all the real truth will come out and Singaporeans will start voting the PAPpies out of power. So no use asking ST to be balanced. First ask PAP to stop controlling the media.. Remove the Newspaper act.. remove all the spy editors.. remove PAPies on SPH boards.

Indeed our mainstream media is an irreplaceable source of news. Without it, I believe Singaporeans would be extremely bored. Here’s what we look for in the Straits Times.

Most popular
1 Girl, 1, has baby in stomach
2 Arrest warrant for teen
3 To strip or not?
4 Jailed for oral sex with maid
5 Man admits killing baby
6 Teens’ last moments
7 S’pore faces double dip risk
8 Ex-cop jailed 3 weeks
9 090909 – 366 couples wed
10 Couple fined for beach sex

http://secretpoliticalblog.blogspot.com/2009/09/why-we-need-mainstream-media.html

Thanks for the link @3.

Clarissa Oon is from where? This year she is from #152.

Any recycled scholar-admiral/general. In Singapore, once you’ve proved your superior skills at passing exams and work in the public sector, the MIW will assume that you can be equally competent at doing anything else.

“He also cited recent surveys by AC Nielsen and the Institute of Policy Studies, which found that a majority of Singaporeans used MSM as their primary news source and found it credible.”

When supposedly independent surveys are actually conducted by parties with vested interest, how credible can it be? Remember those financial rating agencies that helped the financial crooks to cook up a crisis!!!

“How do we hold the ground that we [MSM and the Government] have so painfully gained over the many years of credible and trusted journalism?”

No need to hold the ground actually because there isn’t one in the first place. We are very much aware that whenever it comes to PAP’s policies and lame answers/excuses, MSM always echo without any palpable opinion. The problem lies in the owner/s of MSM, nobody else.

“The continued cannibalising of relationship between MSM and New Media will only serve to alienate the already disillusioned Singaporeans.”

Another veiled attempt to defray the fault as others, not PAP’s. It’s the PAP govt that is alienating Singaporeans.

Dear Mr Lui,

As the minister for Arts & Information, I respectfully ask you to contest on single ward and campaign for balanced media in the next GE. Walk the talk and prove that you are a general in the navy not by name and dare take on the real battle.

Sincerely

The legitimate voter of Singapore

Oh Mr Liu, you say ‘adversarial media’, we say ‘investigative media’.

I love this bit in his speech: “Using what you have, using your journalists, using what your people are able to put together, yet dividing into appropriate packages for the different media. You need to do so in order to retain eyeballs and expand mindshare.”

“Retain eyeballs and expand mindshare”–these are the kinds of phrases that speak volumes about the totalitarianism and capitalism that characterise the PAP. Keep ‘em coming, Minister! The ‘inc’ in Singapore Inc. is both ‘incorporated’ and ‘incarcerated’.

being balanced would mean that MSM would be reporting this in today’s news:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8249374.stm

maybe should give MSM the benefit of the doubt and this story will appear over the weekend?

I read the Minister’s rhetorical spew as a tactical move to entrap non-MSM by evoking responses that would (hopefully) condemn itself unto oblivion.

But as this TOC article shows, people are not naive (as the Minister & by implication the gahmen tries to caricaturize) but discerning and respectful of different views etc – we know ‘democracy’ and we practice it even if we do not necessarily recognize it.

So I see the Minister as writing the death of the MSM instead, jealously guarding its monopoly on ‘Truth’ which will if continued, to disenfranchize the citizen from his state – a condition as Gayatri Spivak(2008) says more undesirable than a rogue state that listens to its people. I think this gahmen, if it continues to sail on the same course will finally implode on itself.

if any reports on PAP and the government policies by our MSM can be trusted then PIG CAN FLY ALREADY.

i have already stopped believing our local MSM for years and i also no longer believe most of the things say by our PM, ministers and PAP MPs.

You need a licence to operate as mainstream media.

If new media can get a licence, they can also become mainstream media.
Afterall do you need to apply for a licence to blog?

Just like in many other things, you need to have a licence to operate legally and credibly. But for media, credible may not be easy to define, unlike other things.

But not for new media. It is legal (just don’t get sued) Credible? Maybe, maybe not. Again depend on how you define credible.

12) walau

According to MM, it will be in 2 GE’s times :P

looking at the BBC news, it is interesting in the way Singapore is been portray nowadays

@ 11) , thanks for the link.

I anticipate the MSM to report Tharman’s quote that it is of no strategic advantage to reveal the billions deposited by the Burmese junta and the banks involved.

Seriously, we must vote this man out. We cannot and should never allow a military linked man to take over the media. We will not be any different from the military junta of myanmar in no time.

and speaking of survey results, just look at the article : Higher pay rise next year as bosses turn upbeat @ http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/1004121/1/.html

Online Media: 1 , Printed Media 0.

Rear Lui’s comments tells us something deeper than what he tried to present on the surface. The death of printed media is imminent – if it does not reinvent itself and start presenting a less slanted view on news-reporting.

It is good news for Netizens, actually. We should take this as a step forward and perhaps heighten our online activities, to bring more newsworthy articles that present the other side of things not seen and reported in the mainstream.

We now know for sure that the views expressed in private online blogs are being listened to, more than those expressed in the government-linked online platforms.

It does not matter if Rear Liu thinks we have slanted brains but he definitely knows that that the MSM cannot continue to be as slanted as it once was. In other word, our ‘slanted’ comments are making headway.

What we can do now is to be more focused on what we intent to achieve, which is to bring about awareness to the plight of Singaporeans who are left behind in the mad rush to stay ahead of other economies. This is what the MSM has failed to bring across to the government and this is where and why Rear Liu finds it necessary to listen and pay attention to online views.

He may seem to deny us our rightful place but we can see quite clearly that our online presence is causing some distress to him and the government. I am sure he will be reading this and this is my advice to him:

Devalue us at your own peril. You are certainly aware that your MSM is now playing catch-up to online reporting, that’s why the need for you to get your printed media to be more balanced in its reporting.

You know what? I don’t think you’ll succeed. For as long as the MSM is subservient to the PAP, it will continue to play catch-up henceforth.

11) pinkskinned on September 11th, 2009 1.14 pm

being balanced would mean that MSM would be reporting this in today’s news:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8249374.stm

Straits Times also didn’t report that Singapore Technologies was banned from bidding for defense contracts with the Indian government due to an ongoing corruption probe.

Yes man (Rear Admiral (NS) Lui Tuck Yew, Acting Minister) only knows Yes man’s language. He can’t tolerate those who speaks otherwise.

If not how can he be MP?

As his title speaks for himself, he enters parliament through the “Rear”.

r”displays the temperament of one who only knows of control and battle, not cooperation”

in the armed forces, we only know about ranks and not balanced viewpoint. in our country, every male (almost every male) needs (needed) to undergo national service and we know all too well – on the need to defer to authority (that is to say those with higher ranks).

they still feel the need to do magic on people in this age of fast information / knowledge (or disinformation / non-knowledge) and reinforce into us with some regular “marketing reminders” of how superb the mainsteam media is.

I firmly believed that government officials should never speak on behalf of the local media. We are encouraging a more open and all encompassing media. Until the Straits Times become the spokesman for the people instead of the government, we will always search for alternative media. Online media will remain relevant irregardless of whether the print media scene here evolve to be more independent of any government interference. Mr Lui Tuck Yew should should understand that the days of government sanctioned information flow are numbered. Internet will free the masses from the brainwashing.

Here is one general/admiral/whatever that I wouldn’t follow into battle with. Imagine “alternate” sources closer to the battlefield telling him some things of the ground situation while his “mainstream” intel sources say otherwise — he rubbished the former but chooses to believe the latter unquestionably. For a military man gone into politics, he sure will ranks alongside with George Bush Jr., aka, going into Iraq and — alamak — no WMD’s found! Too bad US is now stuck there. Another Vietnam? All because of one idiot …

Article: A speech should be like a skirt

But Goh, like his predecessor Lee Kuan Yew, knew a thing or two about media control and the effective use of power.

Unlike Tung, who continued to ignore the media and failed to exercise his privileged power when needed, Goh and Lee would not allow the domestic media to devalue and mock them in public.

For one, you do not see regular political caricatures in the local media taking potshots at the Singapore leadership.

Question: How is it possible to trust the reliable mainstream media when it is being controlled by a handful of people in substantial power?

for 40 years now reading MSM esp nowaday, i can tell one thing for sure….. i am getting very tired of reading nothing but rubbish. event of no kicks, no excitement, no truth and lot of short cuts to hide what is supposed to the truth.

so i am not excited whether i read the shit time nowaday.

It is sad to realise that Mr. Lui is beginning to believe the lies reported by the Straits Times every day. He can’t tell facts from fiction.

Dear Mr Fang Shihan,

You wrote -

“Unlike scientific or mathematical truths when 1 +1 always equals 2, the truth in politics or society at large is always a multiplicity of perspectives. It is an amalgamation of witness reports or observers who analyse the issues at stake with care. By denying this core fact about what ‘truth’ is, foolishly thinking that the news behaved as it would in military organisations, Minister Lui becomes an obstacle to finding Truth, which lies in between a plurality of sources.”

I wish to correct your confusion regarding what truth is. There is only ONE truth on any issue. Yes, there may be multiple perspectives and different opinions about issues, but these are merely approximations of judgement about the truthfulness of certain statements or pronouncements.

So, truth is not variable. Only its judgement is. The pre-requisites for knowing the truth are the availability of information and a keen intelligence to decipher them.

The relative merits of the MSM and the New Media depend on how close their reports adhere to the facts of the case in question.

The real trouble is not that the truth is difficult to know, but that many people are afraid of it and wish to hide it.

The only thing I am interested to know is why the MSM never dares conduct any kind of Gallup Poll to find out the opinions of the public. How to trust them when all they report is in the favour of the Govt?

They are not an independant organisation unlike what the media in some other countries are. Therefore the term ‘lapdog’ fits them to a T.

In the past, there used to be updates that show rising circulations/ readership for ST. In case I missed out without knowing, I no longer see such statistics nowadays, giving the impression that statistics are only presented when they look good, not otherwise.
Not that coverage on the internet isn’t increasingly getting popular by the day. If the mainstream media had been more objective and balanced in coverage, we would not have seen online readership rise at such a rate. The mainstream media still has the option to change it’s stance though.

To make it simple, short and sharp.

In Singapore:

MSM = PAP’s voice

New Media = Citizens’ voices

There is no doubt that citizens’ voices are credible because they are the ones reeling from PAP’s merciless profit oriented policies. Let unlimited foreigners in (collect levy) to make Singapore a more competitive economy. No wonder Singapore is No.1 for business.

Singapore is No.1 because Singaporeans are being made sacrificial lambs.

Dear Mr Lui,

As the minister for Arts & Information, I respectfully ask you to contest on single ward and campaign for balanced media in the next GE. Walk the talk and prove that you are a general in the navy not by name and dare take on the real battle.

Sincerely

The legitimate voter of Singapore

Clarrissa Oon trying to please Lui by adding flesh to Lui’s bones!!

If Lui really believes the cybernews and cyberopinions are irrelevant, why is PAP going into Facebook and blogs??

Who is the chairman of SPH?? What is Printed Press Act?

The Straits Times is just another PAP mouthpiece. We have read biased PAP news all day long, our mind are full of corrupted propaganda.

Yamamoto @15,
“looking at the BBC news, it is interesting in the way Singapore is been portray nowadays”

Nowadays, you know about such outside news because we have the internet. I don’t think it is only nowadays that Singapore is being portrayed as such.

About 15 years ago, I came across an article in the Financial Times, a long report about Singapore’s Leninist regime. I don’t think Western journalists are out to slander (unlike ST, jumping at every chance to report bad news about others to make their PAPa look good). The Western journalists are non- partisan, not controlled and report what they find or experience in other systems.

There’s always many other non PAP favourable reports all the time by ‘outside’ news, its just we don’t get to read about them without the internet in the past. I did not know about the WSJ (Wall Street Journal) case until I found it in the internet too.

I ban Straits Times in my home. I don’t want my children’s minds to be fed garbage and to get messed up like our Ministers.

“There is only ONE truth on any issue….So, truth is not variable. Only its judgement is. ” #27.

smallvoice585 is confused because there are indeed issues that are subjective.

For example, a convicted rapist and child abuser after being in prison for sometime is being considered for release. One psychiatrist thinks she has been cured and is safe to be released , whilst another psychiatrist is not convinced and thinks she is still a danger to society if freed. Who has the truth?

In Singapore, as long as the PAP government makes it so very difficult for a non-PAP- linked organisation to set up a newspaper, the general population has been deprived of information to make up their own minds.

As long as ALL newpapers in S’pore belong to the SPH (which is closely related to the PAP), news and current affairs are being censored to the PAP governments favour.

Truth is thus difficult to know in Singapore.

Online news is ‘adversarial’, and human rights activists (according to AG Walter Woon), are ‘fanatics’. MM’s secretary calls the learning of dialects ’stupid’. Bhavani called Mr Brown’s satirical column a ‘diatribe’, ‘polemics’ and ‘partisan’. Add in ‘highfalutin’ (and of course earlier references to knuckle dusters and hatchets) and the PAP phrasebook should carry an advisory label–Warning: Strong Language. (Suitable for thugs).

BTW, just to jog some memories:

“Supposing Catherine Lim was writing about me and not the prime minister . .. She would not dare, right? Because my posture, my response has been such that nobody doubts that if you take me on, I will put on knuckle-dusters and catch you in a cul de sac . . . Anybody who decides to take me on needs to put on knuckle dusters.” – LKY, 1998

“Put it this way. As long as JB Jeyaratnam for what he stands for – a thoroughly destructive force – we will knock him. Everybody knows that in my bag I have a hatchet, and a very sharp one. You take me on, I take my hatchet, we meet in the cul-de-sac.” – Lee Kuan Yew, The Man And His Ideas, 1997

The man’s got an arsenal…

ST very balance and accurate meh? utter bull****. I wonder how ST reporters clarissa oon etc sleep at night. no conscience.

Tell me how balanced is a news media that devote 4 full pages everyday for a few days consecutive, with excerpts material for a book that a certain group of people recently launched?

Even important world events don’t get such type coverage.

what to do? this piece of blockhead is an ardent fan of ST…and nothing else! Is that a crime? And for all u know….he will cut out interesting articles and paste them in his precious scrapbook! Oh God….how long are we going to suffer under such goons?????????

Sgreans should realise balanced and accurate media is still at the end of the day one-sided. The only balance is when there is free media and information flow.

But what to do,, after decades of brainwashing by PAP-ST, we even believe there is such a thing as BALANCED media. What a joke!!

OMG. This kind of standard can be minister arh??? His logic full of holes leh.

Dear Clarissa, if you really want to be accurate, then please… write an accurate report about how stupid Lui Tuck Yew’s statements are. Please, don’t insult your own self.

I knew of some journalists who told me that the ST reporting is biased and there is no fair reporting. This came from the horses’ mouth.

Good article though Shihah. You gave St reporters a run for their money anytime.

Reporters also self censored alot as they need to toe the line. Some can’t report with a good conscience and left the paper joining foreign corresondences which allow fair reporting.

So what actually is fair reporting?Does free speech in a democratic country constitutes fair reporting?

We all know that we can’t report fairly in communist countries like China, N Korea and Burma.

But in Singapore? A democratic country?

We ranked a low miserable score when it comes to fair reporting amongst with countries like Uganda, Rwanada and N Korea! Shocking but true…

Uncle Lui seems to be a typical normal PAPwhite man who approves the whip and perhaps he may also ask official websites to register people who gave comments on their sites? China has already started doing that.

I foresee if Uncle Lui is given a free rein on the internet business, he may clamp down hard on political blogs that so far have enjoyed much freedom under the govt.

TOC may be the first one on the line for him to tackle.

Hi Gilbert,

With the prospect of general election coming, I think people like us can read from other countries papers to have a better view.

Lui Tuck Yew is paid handsomely to say those things. What else do you think he is allowed to say? The moment he left his admiral’s position to be a minister, he brain has been re-aligned and washed with bleach. If only he can put his hands on his heart and swear that he meant what he said. Alas, we know he cannot for his stands to lose millions. Is it difficult to deliver a politically correct speech, do we need Phd’s or generals in the armed forces to do that? Your answer is as good as mine. On the hand, it takes guts to say things for what they really are. I do believe that LTY has got guts but that he has been de-gutted the day he agreed to step into government. That is the sorry state of affairs currently. The day will come, and I believe it will come sooner than later, if all these de-gutted ministers and MPs continue to say things against their will – just so to please their masters and be in line. The wave of change have started in many places – Malaysia, US, Japan, Taiwan – Singapore will be a close next. We shall watch and see!

Lets be honest with outselves. Can you live without MSM newspaper TODAY or ST? Dont you feel that something is missing when you don’t read the papers at your breakfast table? New media is good, blogs are good but you can never be comfortable if you miss the daily staple of news from MSM? Right?

blackfeline @42

“he will cut out interesting articles and paste them in his precious scrapbook!”

The SG schools tell students to do that too! Even if it is a research project! Can people actually see how deep sh!t this country is in as it continues to be led by the same group!!!

I did my further education overseas and saw the light at last, I don’t want my children to waste their early years like myself.

Is there a possinility that more n more locals switching to read political blogs instead of the mainstream paper?

Lui will certainly be a free media supporter if PAP becomes the opposition party after the next election.

All democratic countries’ politicians embrace free media except for ours. I do not see anymore harm online media can do to SG than to other western countries.

Much as everybody hates the straits times for its one-sided carry-backside news, I think no one would deny that straits times is great for the purpose of getting quick check of the latest, special offers in various products of interests at the hypermarkets, at the pc shops, camera shops, car prices, anything… also not forgetting easy check on current property classified’s, job opportunities, anything so long as it is not news.
So i think straits times is still a valuable source of information for anything other than news. Nowadays, I prefer to read TOC for news. I do that everyday, plus reading Tan Kin Lian blog. Who says the best things in life are not Free?
Zero.

Mrthinktalk – yes I miss the newspapers. But I only read the New York Times.

ST is filled with news about … oral sex? rape? wankers?

Does singaporeans know what impression the TW’nese and mature democracies think about the press here?

What is said is reported by MSM and that guy is one thing .
We should interview citizens of democracies like TW, Australia, USA, Europe to comment on the way they respond about how wonderful the MSM is.

Common sense tells us that free media, ie internet blogs, are not controlled, therefore representations are from ALL CAMPS, free for any expression, what we called BALANCED. Can a privately owned, monopolised medium like ST ever have balanced and fair coverage? Who gives them the license to print and the monopoly? Who are their shareholders? Who has the sure win chance of winning defamation suits (remember WSJ)? Who has the power to fire journalists? etc.

Mr Liu, you are paid by the millions from your peoples taxes, please have some conscience! I am also very appalled by your remarks about the elderly woman. What if your own mum leads this kind of life? Won’t it matter to you? Won’t you want to find out if she has a choice and why? Won’t you want to know what makes her ‘choose’ that life (assuming its her choice)?

“16) Yamamoto
looking at the BBC news, it is interesting in the way Singapore is been portray nowadays”

Are you sure you meant to use the word, “Portrayed”? The article I linked too only highlights Singapore four times and hardly in a way that it was “portrayed”. It was simply mentioned based on what the Rights group Earth Rights International had said.

Is this a clear case of a lack of understanding of what is seen as put simply, factual reporting against what some might say is slanderous? i think not.

Army admiral trying to take control of the new media and force down our throats his silly observations.
MSM hums the same tune of what the government want them to hum. Mr Lui,
are we that stupid to listen to your unfounded frivolities and accusing the new media of bias.
Many of us has stopped reading ST as the Shit Times of government mouthpiece. And it is like you now, mouthing and letting off gas which smells foul.
Please learn more the feelings of the ground before you (Lui) uttered from your bugs bunny mouth. It is easy to jump on the bandwagon and speak your master’s voice. Sorry we do not understand you Lui ‘Mmn Tuck’.

I thot the news flash on Thio Li Ann attacking TOC is also interesting. Her angle is from the Xtian Right and its no different from Lui’s attack.

Wonder if TOC covered the event and speech by Thio? Also this SingaNews thing, right on the back of Thio’s speech, looks like also Xtian Right thing or I’m wrong?

Liu TY has been suckered into believing in the fairytales of ShittyTimes. I cannot see how after reading the one-sided, unbalanced, biased, prejudiced crap he can still speak up for the MSM.
What’s the matter with him? Has he got rocks in his head? Or, are those $millions talking?

48) mrthinktalk

You couldn’t get it more wrong. I get my daily dosages from BBC, WSJ and soccer news from ESPN. I don’t miss not having paper…

“Dont you feel that something is missing when you don’t read the papers at your breakfast table?”

Do you do that at your breakfast table? not very hygenic. Sorry my thinktalk, pardon me for been KPO, but if you really do that,make sure you wash your hands before touching the food and eating…since you hands will be very dirty. I don’t want you to consume carbon-coated food. I will get a bad scolding if any of body family see me doing that, provided i read the papers.

And lastly, mr thinktalk, i think we are been honest here. we can survive without Today or ST. Maybe you can’t, but quite a number of us can. if fact, ain’t ST yesterday news? cold joke. . But really, I usually check out the news online whereby it is updated way faster…

“but you can never be comfortable if you miss the daily staple of news from MSM? Right? ”

Thus, I am very comfortable without the staple of news from MSM. but I will be uncomfortable without my RSS feed and other onlines news source.

Hi Off-centre #57,

I am unsure of the authenticity of the news report (See The Void Deck). The Void Deck also expressed their reservation on its authenticity. This is an important problem to consider because the report makes some substantial allegation about what Thio Li-Ann had said about TOC.

On the other hand, I think it is pre-mature to call Singanews a Christian Right media group until they start publishing stuff. I will give the benefit of the doubt since B.N Balaji is supposedly to be on their editorial board. Even if Singanews turns out to have a Christian news or perspective, I personally hope it will have much less fundamentalist tone than the Christian Post Singapore.

53) Waiting Game

When I was getting my daily dosage of foot and body massage in Taipei, one of the shi fu was saying this to me about our voting:

he said “Is it true that your voting slips has identification on it?”

I answer ” Sorry, i am not sure, Since i never have the chance to vote”

He said “i heard it from my friend, and I can’t believe it. how can people vote in peace when it can be traced”

55) pinkskinned

Pinkskinned, you got me wrong. you assume that my comment was on the link that you provide but My comment was not based solely on that link that you provided , as it isn’t the first one about singapore. I am not saying regarding the junta etc etc, but I am saying it with regards to quite a number of article regarding singapore by BBC in the past. the one most imprint was the one with Mr LHL, and how these articles reveals another critical angle of singapore.

So please, do not assume…

55) pinkskinned

Moreover pinkskinned, if I am drawing reference to your link, I will always attached the comment no ;-) to avoid the same thing as Now…

MSM should note the advice on the Aware Saga, “push too hard & the opposite side will push back”…

military men who think too much about militarising industries outside of it can never win the battle ultimately. simply because people are not war-mongers, & that is why militarily ruled govts are going the way of the dodo bird.

with the numerous military men put in-charge of high govt posts, does S’pore risk being seen as a junta regime without the uniform?

Balanced? Works in this way:

On one end, pile up stacks and stacks of $$$$$ for the ministers.

On the other end, pile up stacks and stacks of Straits Times.

There you are, a “balanced” view.

Yamamoto – apologies if I seemed to be making assumptions. however, I was merely asking you whether you had used the correct word and secondly, it seemed that you were referring to my post and the link in question. I stand corrected.

My guess is Minister Lui has been reading too much of this stuff :
http://www.goodpaper.sg/

hahhahahhah only hear the good news…
Gee I wondered whose idea it is for this publication in circulation now ?

This actually very funny. I think our good Minister is reflecting a view of what the media should be based on that lovely class 95 ad, where the driving instructor of the world’s worst driver can only speak “Good Stuff” about her obviously flawed driving.

To a certain extent, I have to sympathise with the view that media needs to be under some laws. Say what you like about our Singapore media scene but we don’t get people being visible hounded by the media to the extent that they can go quite insane. Rules about journalistic accuracy are also important – it keeps editors and reporters from going nuts.

But I get the feeling that the MSM in Singapore has become something like the Class 95 ad and telling Singaporeans “ONLY HEAR the GOOD STUFF.” Yes, it’s nice to “hear the GOOD STUFF,” and if you’re a minister in charge of building feel good feelings amongst the people, you’d want the media to make the people good.

However, in the last two-years, we’ve seen quite a few dramatic government cock-ups. Think Mas Selamat and Temasek and GIC’s investment failures. Instead of pointing to the obvious signs of government incompetence, the MSM chose to act as a PR spin for government and so the rest of has had to get our feelings of our chest elsewhere.

To be fair to the MSM, it’s been brought up in a culture where it’s job is to serve as a government mouth piece when communicating to the people. It’s never really been asked to serve as a vehicle for the people to communicate to the government and so new media like this portal have helped to fill in that gap.

On the whole, I am not against the government. However, as a citizen, I need to find a place to communicate my angst about certain government actions. As such, I blog and participate in forums like this. Some of my comments may not be what the government wants to hear but what I as a citizen need to say to the government my tax dollars pay for. Why do I come here? The answer is simple, I can’t do it in the MSM (One is technological but more importantly, if I want to get things published in MSM I need to look at the editorial agenda whereas I can let go online).

Simply put, I don’t pretend to be a news source when I blog or post here. I am clearly expressing opinions, which one may or may not disagree with.

The Minister is demonstrating a talent for living outside of reality. MSM has its purposes. Yes, we do get “Information” from MSM, though new media sources are also providing that service too (MSM has its online edition).

But that does not mean that New Media is less credible or valuable. I go to new media to find opinions from people who are unconstrained. If the Minister was smart he would realise the difference between opinion and fact finding. What he calls “adversarial” is for the most part people being crudely honest.

So instead of trying to discredit the value of new media, shouldn’t he be trying to utilise it instead?

the report appears in Singapore:

http://www.straitstimes.com:80/Breaking%2BNews/Singapore/Story/STIStory_428390.html

66) pinkskinned

Of course you stand corrected cos I feel that I am using the wrong word too.

but I was referring to the past BBC report after reading that link provided. agent 008 i think was commenting on it too…

LTA strikes again huh….from CNA

” LTA said card providers such as EZ-Link or credit card companies are free to determine their costs to ensure business survival while meeting customers’ needs.
”

and previous line… “new CEPAS-compliant adult ez-link cards issued by EZ-Link – a company formed by the Land Transport Authority (LTA)”

and next ” this is a commercial consideration by the card issuer to provide for a waiver or to require a nominal fee.” and ” the decision to waive or charge a fee are market driven”

So is LTA under our dear gahmen? and they formed a company that makes commercial decision that are market driven…woa! nice

Dear #38 JW

You wrote -

“smallvoice585 is confused because there are indeed issues that are subjective.

For example, a convicted rapist and child abuser after being in prison for sometime is being considered for release. One psychiatrist thinks she has been cured and is safe to be released , whilst another psychiatrist is not convinced and thinks she is still a danger to society if freed. Who has the truth?”

My answer-

Yes, opinions about issues can be subjective, but truth itself is not! In your example, the predictive assessments of the 2 psychiatrists can be different. But, the truth of whether the rapist and child abuser will rape or abuse again will be out, once he is actually released. Obviously, one of the psychiatrist will be wrong. But once released, the convict will either rape again or he may not, never both at the same time. So, there is still only ONE truth. Only judgements about it can be mistaken.

I believe even the veteran journalists working in the MSM will give his entertaining speech a big ounce of salt and laughing away that his speech is evidenced that he too is not objective at all.

Minister Lui is light-weight, shallow and superficial – in fact, for a Rear Admiral and Minister, one would have to say, barely literate.

Wonder how our Rear Admirals and Brigadier-Generals would perform if, god forbid, Singapore is invaded. I fear for the country.

I agree with all that our media hardly serve the interests of the people.
Eg, how do we get to know the hugh losses suffered by TH and GIC?
Through the foreign media.
How do we get to know the negative news about Sin Inc, like press freedom rankings, human rights reports, our dealings with Burma etc etc etc? Definitely not from the local new media.
How about news about local opposition politicians? Once in while, but then
most are unsavoury reports like PKMS fight, Chee Soon Juan is psychotic etc.
But when PAP ministers and MPs go on a Charity blaze, the reports are
splashed out in glorious technicolor on the front pages.
Ng E Jay is right, Lui would even miss an elephant if there is one.

wat the crab this rear admirer talking about?

quite nice looking leh. surely many like his face.

#52: yes, i absolutely love those advertisement and it think this is the sole purpose now of ST.

Even now when I am working overseas, I still miss those advertisement, and of course, they are good recycleable materials esp after dinner: for the chicken bones, wrapping of durian seeds and other crumps from the table.

But I won’t use it as toilet paper though.

Poor Lui — even our information chief honcho has been brainwashed. Such is the power of the MSM,
But the tragedy — if it can be called that — is that the MSM is not fulfilling one of its key functions: That of reaching out to the masses, especially those from the younger generation.
No wonder, they are growing into a politically apathetic lot.
It’s no easy task – wooing our young generation into becoming aware of what matters. Many are no longer bothered with the political scene — who cares, when one’s stomach is filled, and one has a job to to fulfil the dream of car, condo and country club — is the popular attitude.
But this is a short-term view.
An uncaring young lot will grow into the next generation of sterile, unable to think, adults, who will wither and melt away when the going gets tough.
Is that what we want for our country’s future?

This General from the Navy and was used to conventional warfare right? Put him solo in the street and see how he is going to fight for himself. I don’t think he got clue and he would not allow himself to end up in the situation whereby he has to defend himself in the street alone. Thus Real Adm. Liu would unlikely to rock the boat by open up the pandora box declaring MSM is threatened by the new media even if it appeared to be so. Consider he has to fight the unconventional warfare if the scenario was as such. And MSM is ran by his senior and he is just an acting minster. Any missed fire, his head would roll.

Then again, ain’t he is supposed to bring both the MSM and the New media together as the Minister for art and info?

don’t think there is a mainstream media here.. all more like PAP newsletters..

@81) spin on September 12th, 2009 3.39 pm

“….Then again, ain’t he is supposed to bring both the MSM and the New media together as the Minister for art and info? ….”

And bring more work upon himself? The fat pay he’s gotton only enough for not been corrupt and to toe party lines. Expensive parrot, duh?

The Admiral is lost in the Sea of Objectivity, he does not seem to know the difference between factual reporting and partial reporting, the Latter tends to conceal or omit negative side of news and or informations that are relevant and consequential to an issue. As the MSM, prints and telecasts, are State-controlled and managed, blanking negative news and informations reflecting poorly upon and about the Government itself shows a high degree of bias and partiality.

In the older days, newspapers were used to wipe(clean) the arse, however, some believed that the carbon(print) caused haemorrhoid and stopped using them.

Now, many Singaporeans are so pissed off with the ST, they either refuse to read it or use the ST for their pets to shit and pee on it.

PN Balji would be one good guy to provide us his view(s) here, with regard the qualities of the MSMs versus the New Media and the Qualities of Local Journalists and their Reportings. I mean qualities of factual, neutral and unbiased reportings as well as the compositions, including grammar. I have been reading the word lives(as plural for life) which should be live, whereas lives is the singular verb for live(living) in sub-titles on telecasts and in print reportings repeatedly.

With his Statement; i dare conclude that the Admiral himself is a very biased citizen not capable of fairness(impartial).

patriot

He should have moved on to private sector rather than fighting for a lost cause. MSM is losing big time. The online media is going to be dominant in the coming years. Anyone can blog about politics and also be a great online video journalist in this age. You-Tube era has loosen the grips that once only mighty MSM had.

This X navy chief must have forgotten about the RSN Ship colliding with the tanker and killing some female sailors onboard while he is chief. If the press is WSJ, NYT or Washington Post standard he would have been in a less than pleasing stature. But luckily for him is our own 154th Shitty Times. He end up shinning bright handling the so easy to please dumb heads press people and see now he is a MIW. How easily for him to forget that his men died so he can be seen as a media darling because of the way he handle media in the unfortunate incident? I hope he can stop crapping and do what is right from his heart and those who died under his charge.

@84) FeverGUY on September 12th, 2009 11.21 pm

“….This X navy chief must have forgotten about the RSN Ship colliding with the tanker and killing some female sailors onboard while he is chief….”

Compared with Japanese destroyer, Atago, which sliced through a fishing vessel, resulting in the missing/death of 2 fishermen. [www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/02/19/asia/AS-GEN-Japan-Ship-Collision.php].

Subsequently, the Japanese Minister of Defense was forced to resign.

Some people are becoming obsessed with how NS is relating to living and working in the real world. Please remember that NS is to prepare and protect this nation from foreign attacks. Keep your war experiences our of real life and ESPECIALLY out of politics.

Someone who at the peak of his career never gets to hear a “NO” but only “YES” can be a A.M. for MICA? On what ground? Experience? Good Talker? Morale Booster? or someone who can walk the talk? Nay! He never even resign from his post during the mishap. So much for leadership by example. The most important core of SAF he don’t even have. You think i dare risk my life for him if he is my commander, or now even more to give a hoof about what he is saying regarding the MSM credible? Don’t treat us like fools less you become one yourself, REAR ASSMIRAL!

war, politics are part of the real world. so is power to control…

real world in many parts of Asia alone have the army connection, North Korea, Myanmar…?

Pink,

You mean bang a tanker out at SEA is WAR experience? Politic? NS is to prepare to defend the nation not to sacrifice precious life in accident. You mean NS is not real world life experiences you must be really a joker! NS is breathing in every male Singaporeans until age 40 unless you PINK is a foreigner, PR, WOMEN or CHAO KENG soldier. Unless you dont even know what NS is about! Please stop your nonsense and degrade all healthy NS Singaporeans who fulfilling REAL WORLD responsibilities! WAKE UP.

agreed that army connections are strong in countries like North Korea and Myanmar. That is the point – when military are running a country, expect no democracy and totalitarian states. Is that what we want in Singapore?

In my view, the real world is not made up of totalitarian states but more democracies that treat their military as a line of defense – although Bush changed that more recently.

MSM in a totalitarian state is for one purpose only – propaganda.

Pinkskinned

post #90 on September 13th, 2009 12.28 am

////agreed that army connections are strong in countries like North Korea and Myanmar. That is the point – when military are running a country, expect no democracy and totalitarian states. Is that what we want in Singapore?////

answer, no. then why are “retired” military men put in civilian posts? also, even if this is not the choice of the masses do most who do not agree with such a move have a choice? a question of the presence of real choices, in my opinion.

////In my view, the real world is not made up of totalitarian states but more democracies that treat their military as a line of defense – although Bush changed that more recently.////

i will not impose my view on you but i have pointed to a slice of reality nearer home.

////MSM in a totalitarian state is for one purpose only – propaganda.////

true, & the way things are panning out does not bode well for the image of MSM, real or percieved.

mice is nice

Retired or not, a military man uses references to war, weaponry, etc, in business and running the country. Is this really the right metaphor? Whether these people are there by peoples choice, it “should” be in the hands of the people to decide or put trust in the government they vote for.

My view is not shared to “impose” upon anyone. Thats the problem sometimes when a point of view is misunderstood. Anyone a member of the human race has the right to opinion, a right to his point of view. MSM sadly, does NOT allow for points of view.

Pinkskinned

post #92 on September 13th, 2009 12.58 am

agree with your points in the 1st paragraph. that itself raises the question the reality in S’pore why military men are put to head civilian organisations after their “retirement” from uniform service.

thanks for clarifying in your post, so how do you explain your “outburst” in your post #86 on September 12th, 2009 11.46 pm posters or readers? in S’pore’s context?

“outburst”? Hardly an outburst and again I state, another point of view. I use the word people in the general sense and not directly related to readers or posters here.

Pinkskinned

post #86 on September 12th, 2009 11.46 pm
////Some people are becoming obsessed with how NS is relating to living and working in the real world. Please remember that NS is to prepare and protect this nation from foreign attacks. Keep your war experiences our of real life and ESPECIALLY out of politics.////

post #90 on September 13th, 2009 12.28 am
////In my view, the real world is not made up of totalitarian states but more democracies that treat their military as a line of defense – although Bush changed that more recently.////

post #92 on September 13th, 2009 12.58 am
////Thats the problem sometimes when a point of view is misunderstood. Anyone a member of the human race has the right to opinion, a right to his point of view. MSM sadly, does NOT allow for points of view.////

talk about shooting all over the place with these posts….

pinkskinned

post #94 on September 13th, 2009 1.20 am

////“outburst”? Hardly an outburst…////

well, its your opinion…

////I use the word people in the general sense and not directly related to readers or posters here.////

if you din realise, you are posting in a forum. lol…

@86) pinkskinned on September 12th, 2009 11.46 pm

“…..Some people are becoming obsessed with how NS is relating to living and working in the real world. Please remember that NS is to prepare and protect this nation from foreign attacks. Keep your war experiences our of real life and ESPECIALLY out of politics….”

Gosh, the years I did reservist while in the midst of my working career are considered as UNREAL!?! With this flip-flopping between real and unreal worlds, I now understand why there is so much confusion and gripes about NS. Thks pinkskinned for enlightening us!

About 50% of the my time in NS/Reservist were on C-rations. Did I imagine those smelly sardines or what? Maybe ppl that are not forced to survive on sardines gets pink. Another revelation?!?

dear smallvoice585 (#29 )

you are wrong about there only being one “truth” to every issue.
Clearly there is only one truth for simple matter of fact things like “is this chair red?” ( although there might be more complex debates about colour spectrum and the universal perception of red )

for other issues which try and explain the causes and effects of complex situations there exists surely a multiplicity of views. Thats why academic and professional historians are involved in intense debates about historical interpretation ( which keeps changing ). They always finding new sources of evidence and reinterpreting events. They dont just sit down and memorise “facts.”

Only 19th century positivist dinosaurs will argue that there is only one rightful perspective on every single event/issue/occurance today. Especially with issues that deal with human society. Unlike “the natural world”, human society is based on human perceptions which are relative. there exists no “real” society outside the amalgamations of perceptions we have about it. which is why there are multiple viewpoints.

Take the example of global terrorism. Some will argue that religious fanaticism is the root cause, others will argue that its more about the “have-nots” in the world expressing their grievances at structural inequalities put in place by the “haves.” Religion then merely becomes a rallying point for these people, because its a convenient and pre-existing element in society. Where is the truth? surely that depends on the context, the location and the individuals involved. In some cases might it not be grey?

[...] Don’t Be Fooled – Sgpolitics.net: Lui Tuck Yew should take his head out of the sand – TOC: Not mainstream media, not new media, then who? [Recommended] – Singaporean Skeptic: The World according to Lui Tuck Yew: Balanced if you agree [...]

There is no need to draw a line between MSM or New Media. What counts is the credibility of the maker of the statements. It’s just like religious faiths. When people goes about preaching about how there is only one God, many are still turned off but to the evangelists, their faith moves mountains.

On the other extreme, would you belief Dr. M if he said that there is no corruption in Matland?

Under RDM Lui Tuck Yew’s watch at RSN, we lost a brand new ASW warship, RSS Courageous, which sank and had to be written off, and 4 RSN personnel died. Only the two OOWs were prosecuted but those higher ups didn’t lose their jobs.

It’s not surprising that the Ag Minister of MICA spoke in such a banal and shallow way because he, like many of those younger “ELITES” in the gahmen have been indoctrinated by the same MSM as he is trying to defend……People posting here seem to have forgotten what then Legislative Assemblyman Lee Kuan Yew had talked about the role of the press om 1956….that of singing the gahmen’s praises even if such praises were inconsistent or contrary to the facts. Let’s also remember that there is the NPPA law circumscribing how BALANCED our MSM could be.

As then Minister of State, Education, he had aped the (fundamental) Christian slippery slope argument that decriminalization of S377A would lead to calls to amongst other SINS, for the decriminalization of INCEST. Being a staunch X’tian who claimed never to have watched porn, and would therefore upheld the CREATION view of human origin, he forgot to ask himself how could mankind multiply itself if there were NO INCEST?

Such is the level of CRITICAL THINKING skill or the lack thereof amongst our (fundamental) Christian ELITES like Lui, TLA etc. ……….Sad

But then, what to expect?

@ 100) It does not matter whether the cat is black or white; as long as it catches the mouse, it is a good cat.

You see the signs that even PAP knows that they sucked:

Their new book’s title doesn’t mention PAP.

The wave of change is coming.

Lui,

you hear the people’s voices here already or not?
you respond oready not?

why not you say something?

#103 FPC,
“The wave of change is coming. ”

i was like you in the last 2 elections.
the result proved that there was no change.

i hope its me and not u who is living in false perception or denial.

change can only come when the fat lady sings.

everything else is false impression.

to #72 smallvoice585

Correct, that issue, in that instance would only have 1 truth, whether the rapist is fit to return to society, or not. But to let nature take it’s course, and then to use time to see which person was right kind of defeats the purpose you know. I mean, the WHOLE POINT of getting those two psychiatrist in the first place WAS to preempt the rapist’s actions, if any, and to determine if he/she was fit to return to society. In your scenario, that purpose is fully and wholly defeated. What is the point of having your pointless “truth” then? What is the value in knowing the “truth” if it is brought out via a failure to protect more children from being raped?
Is there honestly any point in that? It’s like arguing over whether a person will shoot you if you give him a gun, and you give it to him, only to have him shoot you. What’s the bloody point?
I suppose what I’m trying to say is this. While there may only be one “truth”, the means to figure out or attain that “truth” should not defeat the purpose of gaining the “truth” itself to begin with. As mentioned above where you end up being shot at anyway. It’s totally pointless, in such a scenario, to bother with trying to find out the truth anyway, ‘cus you’re just gonna follow through with it. So why bother?

Kasaru

post #106 on September 13th, 2009 11.59 pm

JW’s analogy in post #38 on September 11th, 2009 6.03 pm
is not a good 1, so why is there a need to further discuss it?

can anyone say with absolute certainty how the future will unfold?

as for
“will a convicted rapist and child abuser after being in prison for sometime is being considered for release. One psychiatrist thinks she has been cured and is safe to be released , whilst another psychiatrist is not convinced and thinks she is still a danger to society if freed.”

factors beyond the control of both psychiatrists does have an influence on a person’s behaviour.

things like:
. social intergration
. support from family & close friends
. availability of profession help at reasonable cost for counselling to further reduce the tendency to re-commit the crime
. personal history of the offender

also, such analogy does not take into account the odd chances of things panning out in ways that defy indicators that point in opposite direction. both psychiatrists will never know the future, they are making accessment/s based on limited, past indicators to draw a conclusion. a conclusion based on probability (of re-offending), not predicting future events.

Yes, the MSM is “credible”, so that’s why I still buy it.
It’s credible for it’s foreign news, cos it’s not from their own journalists.
It’s credible for it’s sports, 4D and TOTO results.
It’s credible for it’s obituaries section.
As for the rest it’s good for wrapping up my veggies

Dear #98 smallervoice,

You said –

“Only 19th century positivist dinosaurs will argue that there is only one rightful perspective on every single event/issue/occurance today. Especially with issues that deal with human society. Unlike “the natural world”, human society is based on human perceptions which are relative. there exists no “real” society outside the amalgamations of perceptions we have about it. which is why there are multiple viewpoints.”

My answer -

I did not say that there is only one viewpoint on anything. Obviously, there will be multiple viewpoints in human affairs, but out of all those viewpoints, only one will conform to reality. Conformity to reality is what truth is! Since there is only one reality, there is only one truth.

Dear #106 kasaru,

You said -

“While there may only be one “truth”, the means to figure out or attain that “truth” should not defeat the purpose of gaining the “truth” itself to begin with.”

My answer -

The truth stands by itself. It is not for you to predict the truth or for you to use such predictions to prevent any future disasters. Yet, it is important for you to seek the truth however ugly it may be and to accept it the way it is. Only with such honesty can one live a life of value. Only with such acceptance can one be at peace with the world.

Would this guy stand for election in a ward?

The only ‘credible’ section from the MSM is its classified section. I have to rely on it due to the nature of my work. All other sections, seems more like incredible!!!

Especially the way they spin about opposition news and the way those dogs wrote about their master.

First World Media indeed. Perhaps MSM journalists might want to consider ‘exchange programmes’ with North Korea, Cuba, Ethiopia, Swaziland, Rwanda to teach these Third World countries a thing or two about ‘journalistic ethics’.

[...] also: Not Mainstream Media, not New Media, then who? Related [...]

For me I have to rely on MSM. Cannot live a day without it!
Blogs.. well.. it takes time a lot of time to catch up and reach the same credibility. I believe not there yet and dont try to be. Meanwhile you can still go on fishing and once in a while you come with a hat-trick but only just a flash in the pan! Isnt what i said not so?

Dear smallvoice585, #72

I think you did not grasp the illustration given earlier.

Suppose a man is thinking of selling his stocks, (call APEX); should he sell or should he not sell? Let’s say he sold is stocks (APEX). Two months later the stocks rose significantly, his decision is not correct. However, one year from the date he sold, the stocks (APEX) fell by more than 80% for which he sold. His decision is correct.

So your statement, ““There is only ONE truth on any issue….So, truth is not variable.” is wrong because it depends on the time frame you are looking at the issue.

Fang Shihan is correct, “…the truth in politics or society at large is always a multiplicity of perspectives.”

Your assertion needs tuning.

JW,

////I think you did not grasp the illustration given earlier.

Suppose a man is thinking of selling his stocks, (call APEX); should he sell or should he not sell? Let’s say he sold is stocks (APEX). Two months later the stocks rose significantly, his decision is not correct. However, one year from the date he sold, the stocks (APEX) fell by more than 80% for which he sold. His decision is correct.////

this is a very different analogy from the one you posted in
post #38 on September 11th, 2009 6.03 pm

its very difficult to grasp what you main point is… -.-”

////Fang Shihan is correct, “…the truth in politics or society at large is always a multiplicity of perspectives.”////

this article is about different media outlets, not the truth in politics or society at large. more accurately, how the facts are chosen or ignored (hence, different perspectives), then presented to its target audience. i think this is what the article is about.