I did respect LKY during the initial 20 years. Not now.
His actions and words show he has little or no respect for Sporeans.
He always had the choice on how he wants to be remembered.

After 44 years and counting, I look forward to reciting the Pledge while pissing on his grave.

The thing is … what about MM Lee says, people do think that he still has the ability to make it beyond mere rhetoric.

Sorry, I meant “whatever MM Lee says… “

Gave up on him 10 years ago! I have more repect for those young people who dared to answer back during a not too long ago forum on TV…and that particular journalist from Reuters (a singaporean lady) who got the guts to reply with a question to his intimidating stupid question!

I am sorry, the reason we should respect MM Lee is?
I am confused here.

Respect.

1944 – Lim Bo Seng: Hero of Force 136

http://www.mindef.gov.sg/imindef/about_us/history/world_war2/v09n06_history.html.

1941 and beyond – Lee Kuan Yew. (Please fill in your own conclusions).

I guess LKY is and will be an eternal hero for some people.

To say that MM Lee has no respect for Singapore or Singaporeans is laughable. You cannot deny his dedication and contributions; but at the same time, I think his fears (and our fears) of the uncertain future is blinding the Government and many Singaporeans for the need to be more aware and involved. We cannot remain as a society in which individuals and households are physically close, but emotionally disconnected; we must stop focusing on what divides us (race, religion, boundaries), and focus on what unites us, what bonds us as Singaporeans.

In essence, there is a need for a reversal of apathy and lethargy. The statement that “mere rhetoric no longer suffices” is applicable not just to politicians, but to all individuals who have a desire to make change possible. Why stop at making commentaries on-line that will only revolve around a slowly-growing circle of netizens? My peers and I, having volunteered and involved ourselves in different grassroots and community activities, have gained a greater sensitivity and understanding of this country; and this commitment translates into our willingness to openly speak about issues in classes and in exchanges.

We have to detach ourselves from the fear of openness and free exchange. MM Lee should one day see that we are not anti-PAP or anti-establishment; we just believe in exercising our stake and advancing our country to greater heights. Stagnation and compliance with the status quo is not the way to go.

I wonder how Singaporean react and remember MM when it is his turn to RIP. Will people remember and revere JBJ more than LKY?

Good article, thank you Andrew.
A thought came to my mind while reading it. I would say that we as citizens should once and for all take some responsibility for the current state of the nation. Elections aside (too many factors..don’t even now where to start), I believe many Singaporeans with misplaced “Traditionalist” attitudes play a part in crippling our society politically.
How many times have you heared remarks like “rude” or “no manners” being bandied about when ever a young individual speaks up against or questions an elder statesman? I remember at least a couple of like incidents. Give respect when it is due but come on…should age or “status” make you an unquestionable figure at all times under all circumstances? Please note that when it comes to aggresive approaches even MM himself does not pull any punches (as mentioned above) so if he is ready to dish it out I fully believe that he should be able to take some of his own too. Does he have to literally Die before people see him for the mortal he really is?

“The House fell silent as MM Lee spoke”

Wow, 82 ++ top talents and everyone silent?

I am impressed by the politician’s homogenous thinking.

1 for all and all for one , i urge everyone to kudos our 82++ intellectuals of the highest order.

what i mean is these 82++ must have strong reasons to keep silent.
Maybe its called courtesy – when someone speaking, all keep silent to pay respect by listening attentively.

but to be fair, for many issues, the majority of the 82++ appear pretty homogenous in that not all of them speak on all issues debated.

lest i be mistaken, i am not saying that we dun need so many like 41++ will do or like that. I mean maybe should increase also can.

Well, as long as the people support. why not?

MM Lee has passed his prime, if he cannot see this reality his reputatiuon is finished.

there are 2 camps of opinion on him now.

1. those who still see him as a hero for the past track record for his contribution to build S’pore up

2. those who see him for what he is, the past & the present. merit was given for his past contribution, but to see him as a burden to the progress of the nation is really sad.

MM Lee from hero to zero. like how some people from poor rose to great wealth & go back square one…

@7) Kwan Jin Yao,

Only PAP goons and supporters should respect LKY.
Your comments are obviously skewed, conveniently overlook the abuse of ISA, ridiculous laws on assembly, shameful election system, intimidation tactics, using law suits to bankrupt opponents, non accountability in governance, including that of Temasek, GIC. How about nepotism ? Does the name Ho Ching ring a bell for you ? So whose contributions are these ? And whose deeds have divided us ?

For heavens sake, respect him if you must but don’t come here with your BS to make a case for him. He is way past expiry date a long time back.

What could be the situation like
IF and only IF the MM totally as in absolutely retire from politics?

Note the IFs.

What more kinds of great speech could we expect, IF any?

What more kinds of less than great speech could we expect, IF any?

OR there will be total no effect?

keep the answer to yourselves. shhhhhhhh….

Over the last few years, LKY’s decision to award million dallor wages to ministers was taken without any consultation with the voters of Singapore. We all know, there are many poor and needy Singaporean that could use a little assistence to help them get over the recession period. Cost of living rises relentlessly and yet the regime did not implement any social policy to help these Singaporean. Medical cost is one hugh burden for the family with aged parent. I had personally know of family that had used up all their CPF to fund medical fees for their parent. What is going to happen to them when they themself grow old especially those in the fifty which little time left to rebuild their CPF fund? More homelessness? Singapore also have a aging population like those in Japan and Europe. We are know why, Singaporean are not having babies and even those that do, restricted themself to just one. This are issue that any responsible government must address and get to the root of the problem. If not, in 10 or 20 years time, the Singapore as we know it will not longer be the same. Changes are already taking place and more and more educated Singaporean are voting with their feet.

Hiya, everyone guards their rice bowl mah. They learned from past incidences where some folks are neutered after speaking up.

When will we be so lucky like the Japs who now have a new ruling party after so many years? Like them I oso want change.

I think the MM can have his view and so do the rest of the population and even the whole world people can have different views on the same issue, technically speaking.

Lets respect his views and ALSO respect the rest of the 99.9% other different views that potentially could exist in this galaxy. Viswa has his views and we all too should respect his views.

Respecting a person’s views Agreeing.
Technically speaking, while respecting a person’s view , an INTELLECTUAL (that is someone who has a brain and can think intelligently, having some market value) can still agree to Disagree with that person’s view.

So, from an Intellectual point of view, diversification of views can actually derive new knowledge and solutions.

Imagine all students in a country have Only has 1 View.
I technically should feel worried for the future of that country if not its youths.
youths are said to be the future pillars of a country.

Readers, do you agree?

Supposedly this:
‘If I don’t awe you people, I can’t make sure things go the right way…’
‘If I don’t command such respect in the parliament, I might as well roar like a kitten… and be the kitten.’.

Hmm… what’s the point here with this article…?

whatever amazing accomplishment he has done for Singapore, he, his family,friends,etc have already been more than extremely well rewarded in terms of both money and recognition.

most great persons only get money or recognision.
but still he demanded for both and we singaporeans graceously gave it to him.

what more does he want? and by refusing to step down totally, his thinking is still dictating what will happen in this country. how then to have change for the better of singapore?

i just don’t understand why so many people worship him like a god.

hi Anonymous,

heard of brand loyalty (past track record)? its the same with this situation.

its a mental trap…

what is scary is how SPH and ST is keeping quiet about the whole thing.

I guess they are waiting quietly for cabinet ministers to take the lead before moving on, moving off this topic about our national pledge.

And all the ministers are keeping very quiet.

I hope the opposition will take some actions. We the citizens must be bigger and smarter than MM Lee in intepreting the pledge – no??

#21,
“I hope the opposition will take some actions”

As I said before, New GENES are needed.
Give them another 20 years to see if got effect. I mean their offspring.
The current batch exhausted 50 years to no avail.
Sad but true.

Next better player.

LKY’s days are numbered. The real problems are ahead of us after LKY goes.
With the PAPies’ 100% political power, they have control over all the monies of the nation.
The key players of the PAPies are already now positioning themselves to grab the lion’s share of the power (and the control of hundreds of billions of the nation’s wealth) .
The minute LKY goes, havoc and anarchy will be the order of the day, both within the PAP and nationwide. Chronic corruption and hidden skeletons in the closets are going to emerge.
The splintering of the PAP into factions is axiomatic. It’s inevitable.
This is the time the opposition parties are going to make great headway in the hearts and minds of the people.
A new era for Singaporeans, with true democratic ideals, is in store.
The whole process might take about a decade, just 2 elections away.
Change is inevitable.
PAPies will be history, and power will revert to the PEOPLE.

Instead of angsting over his injustices which will always be swiftly rejoined by proof of his accomplishments, why not take both into balance, then turn the next page and start a new chapter in Singapore’s development?

No point wallowing in accusations.

Singaporeans, let us all pray to GOD that MM or Lee Dynasty won’t be around for the next decade.

Though he has done great job for Singaporeans but as a nation we need to grow up someday and face the real worlds.

MM is not Abrahim Linclon but Napolean type personality and is no good for the continue progress of our nation.

“We thus have to question if it is fair for one single man, even one such as MM Lee, to wield so much influence that when he speaks, even ideas become silent.
How does this benefit Singapore in the long run?”

Remember Hitler the tyrant ??

MM must step down for the next generation to lead the country. If not, things just can’t move because somebody is watching closely behind the scene. Scary!!!!

I believe that every ruler, good or bad, can have his or her deeds drafted in a nice little graph. You know, maths? And for the time period over which they ruled, there will usually (USUALLY) and in dear MM Lee’s case, a low starting point, a nice climax, and then usually it goes into a decline.
Skewer me if I am much mistaken, but I feel that Our MM is kinda past that Climax, and quite far into the decline right now =/ There are better ways of doing things, and some of the things he’s done over the past years have been pointed out by many as rather unacceptable. I quote “the abuse of ISA, ridiculous laws on assembly, shameful election system, intimidation tactics, using law suits to bankrupt opponents, non accountability in governance, including that of Temasek, GIC. How about nepotism ?”
The only problem we, as citizens/laymen face right now is how to get the PAP or anybody with reasonable influence at all to try and change things. 40+ years of the PAP… Well, it’s time for something new, question is where do we start.
People who stay in power tend to go astray. History has proven that.
As for wheter or not to respect our dear MM. Well, I don’t see why not, seeing as you don’t have to like something to respect it. He turned most of us into nice little “digits” -.-…. So kudos to him for that

To give him the benefit of the doubt, I think he is no tyrant. He just keeps thinking people who speak against him are opposing him or people are out to get him. He takes it personally. This is why he will NEVER step down because he fears that once he loses his power, opposition can get back at him.

Politics should not be personal. If only he can APPRECIATE that his people are always striving for something better (‘nothing is good enough’), Singapore would have been become 10 times better by now and really, really strong economically, socially and culturally. I mean can you imagine Scientists (including social scientists saying all is well, no further studies needed)?

That reminds me, I should check on my house in Perth, Vancouver and Sydney. That apartment in London too.

[i]My peers and I, having volunteered and involved ourselves in different grassroots and community activities, have gained a greater sensitivity and understanding of this country; and this commitment translates into our willingness to openly speak about issues in classes and in exchanges.[/i]

wah! you grassroot team garan hor..which division you belon to?
cared to share? i have seen out of 10 grassroots..9.5 will tell their MPs/ministers
where have problemo? the people are happy? do you see beggars in the community centre beggin from you minister( as though the beggars are allowed to pass through..when i MYSELF would not even passed the community front fence gate..yes yes i am a ^MARKED^ person in my ward..every grassroot members know me very very well…they are happy as lon as i don’t talk nor placed a placecard poster in my frontdoor whenever the mps do their walkabouts)
the last walkabout by a cabinet minister asked me..how are you?
i replied with a smile
FINED without YOU..still unemployed though…

This few weeks has so much news published on the old man…….embrace foreigners, article 152, etc etc.

Why there is No News on MM Lee’s wife who draft his speeches?? Without her, old man is talking nonsense. Straits Times just published blindly to please him…….”who dare to sue him??”

It’s seems old man wife has been “MISSING” since mid of last year till now. Mas Salamat is found and yet old man’s wife still M-I-A…….

This month, September, is old man birthday…….Since it’s still in a period of recession & most reporters are so free, Straits Times, The New Paper, Berita, Channel News Asia, Media Corp, send your men to the field to find out what happen to the old lady…….so that the old man will not be so lonely & talk Less Rubbish……ok?

“But you are not a nation or the nation unto yourself”

How true … that’s exactly what the old fart has been doing for the past 50 years

The House fell silent as MM Lee spoke.

Such is the respect – some would call it fear – that MM Lee still commands.

FEAR?? what a joke. the house is silent due to his talk that doesn’t make any sense at all. silent all this years doesn’t mean people are fear of you mr lee kuan yew! people are watching you with silent to understand your motive and very soon you will end up like what happen in japan.

A small window was opened up by viswa sadasivan– but was forcefully and immediately shut down.

why would it have to be forcefully shut down?? is this the same old trick mm lee has been using for past 50years just to stay in power?

How fair should our electoral system be? How should a nation such as ours treat the minority races? How do we rid ourselves of the fear of being involved in politics? Why are so many leaving us? Why do even our children want to leave this land? What kind of roles should our media play? Is government control of the media doing harm to our country? What does being Singaporean mean? Why do we not put down stakes on this land and claim it as our own?

this our mm lee kuan yew should think for the past years. not now after the small window had been opened by viswa.

so can we singaporeans say this: aslong there is no window being opened. mm lee kuan yew just go on with what he wish to do without thinking of his fellow singaporeans? so does this mean his interested in foreign country and foreign affair is more important than we singaporeans??

The unquestioning deference which Singaporeans have paid to MM Lee all these years no longer will stand the country in good staid. Yet, let us not confuse deference with respect.

respect?? think again mr mm lee on how we had respect you as a father to singapore and to we singaporeans.

But when it comes to things of the nation, how we want to be, what values we want to have, the future that we imagine for ourselves and our children,

ouselve and our children?? are you refering to your mm lee families and the PAP families? or are you speak for all of us singaporeans families? children? do you really care for our children?
if you really care then this all won’t happen. you speak for yourself and you put us in the position of hope and dreams that doesn’t exist and trying to make us believed that the dreams will come true and we have to wait but actually you yourself knew this dreams doesn’t exist.

you are playing a game that will damage singapore and we singaporeans you are taking too much of risk just for your own interest and your dreams.

your dreams and our dreams are far more a distance and if you care for us singaporeans then we shall have only one dreams as a saying a father will always make his children dreams come true but for your case it is totally out of it.

what are you up to??

This old man is getting very very paranoid, fear of all the people around him, fear of intruder, fear of retribution getting back at him, fear fear fear! tsk tsk tsk but its happening in him now and will worsen as the days go by.

” And so, the saddest and most unfortunate thing about the Viswa Sadasivan episode is one of lost opportunity.”

It was more like a tsunami, that went as fast as it came!

“One which we may never have again for a long time. A small window was opened up – but was forcefully and immediately shut.’

Mm will never allows any good ideas to emerge from anyone, nor would he let anyone do good to our nation, (not even his own people), remember Mr OTC- our late president who was made to feel like a nobody in end.?

No one is good enough to say or do anything other than his very ‘capable’ Prince.

Both of them will never step down until we vote them out….isn’t is obvious that the next heir of the ‘ Dynasty (” will not be from the parliament’) is being ‘groomed’ to be the future PM – to take Singapore further down to its doom?

Correct me if i am wrong please, I thought Hitler loved his people, & was loved by his people, could we say the same about our MM?
It is not right to even compare Hitler with tyrants who trample on their own people?

My respect for him has long gone. Yes, sad to say, but it is the truth-the other extreme of the pendulum!
I have always believed our politicians to be people of INTEGRITY… perhaps i was hallucinating.How false it turn out to be !
i suppose it was my assumption not theirs!
Perhaps they were ASPIRING to be? Don’t tell me its HIGHFALUTIN ?

“We thus have to question if it is fair for one single man, even one such as MM Lee, to wield so much influence that when he speaks, even ideas become silent.”

Its more of ‘instilling’ the element of fear’ rather than influence, perhaps they are the same, but then,is this new in our country?

“How does this benefit Singapore in the long run?”

To produce a nation of ‘cowards’ (sorry ya, but that’s what we are) ….. a long lineage of peasants, who will never question, no matter what……sometimes i wonder if we are in the ‘dark ages’ -living with fear all the time!

It doesn’t benefit Singapore, but it definitely benefits the Dynasty!

Good article TOC…..
Our MSM should seriously consider reading and going in depth about, what you said in your article.
But I don’t think they would.

Respect is one thing but been foolhardy is another.
LKY should unlearn a few things and know the contemporary Singapore and Singaporeans.
The rest who listened with mouth agape, should start thinking as well.

>> Basic Principle of Public Service:

RESPECT from the People must be “earned”, not “expected” nor “demanded” and definitely not “arm-twisted through legal threats”.

>> Pertinent Question in Public Service:

Should Politicians be Truly Respected (through words and actions) by the People, or Impatiently Tolerated or Abjectly Feared (like Hitler, Saddam Hussein or Pol Pot)?

>> Quotable Quote by a young S’pore Netizen:

“People with INTEGRITY counter accusations with the TRUTH, not lawsuits!”

Well said, Andrew. Bravo.

Very very unfortunately, the rest of Singaporeans in power and authority try to do likewise.

Some years back, I wrote an article about why, despite our tap water being “world class”, it might be a good idea to install a water filter at home to remove traces of chlorine and other chemicals, particularly in the case of those individuals who might be sensitive (eg those who react to chlorine in the shower and would benefit from a shower filter).

The PUB came down in LKY style. I heard they wanted to sue me as well as the editor and publication that ran my article and demand that we publish an apology in ALL the mass media.

In the end, they were persuaded by their PR consultant to adopt a softer stance, which meant that the publication was made to publish a TWO-PAGE RETRACTION, saying my article was without basis, irresponsible, etc.

Again, discussion ended. I have neither the energy nor resources to fight the PUB.

This is SIN-gapore!

Respect MM for a peaceful life, Fear him to stay alive in his island.
Welcome to Ah Kong Island, LeeKaYore

The One who is our Saviour is also our Betrayal.

Long ago, when Chiam See Tong first entered Parliament, there was one debate in which LKY, at that time still Prime Minister, spoke to, err, demolish Chiam’s ideas. I think it was about Chiam’s claim that HDB flats were not truly subsidised.

Chiam responded by saying, “If the Prime Minister says so, then it must be so”
(more or less exact words as far as I can recall.)

To this day, I do not know if he was speaking out of fear or sarcasm.

#43. I believe its sarcasm with a tinge of resignation.

No matter how great the leader is, the greatest thing they can do is know when to step down…

look at bill gates, he can still continue, but he decide to step down…instead of waiting until his prime has pass

when LKY meets his maker, & PAP is still in power i wonder if PM LHL will be yanked off his ivory seat….

#44 Or is it the other way around, resignation with a tinge of sarcasm?

IF MM can walk the talk and not talk the rot, we will respect him a while more

The MM that worths respect ceased to exist after 1980.

nothing much will actually change in local political scene until after he is gone

MM Lee , if he had stuck to his word and retired some 20 years ago,
many people would still hold him in high regard.
But because he stayed on past his welcome and reversed most of the
socialist policies in the earlier years resulting in Singapore
not being run not as nation but a Corporation, a house but not a home and the
people without a safety net (ie you die your business), many couldn’t wait
for him to kick the bucket.
But since when did dictators or authoritarian leaders ever give up power
willingly?

Respect him, yes, but fear him absolutely no!!! What I gather from Viswa was a hint of fear. MM has his views and he is free to do so but to believe or side him is really up to the individual. I’ve given up on MM a long time ago , with due respect, and that only, because people today have totally diverse views and opinions. MM if he feels sorry about our views and the current generation that is his choice because we have our choice too and its definitely not for the MM. In many ways he made the country to be what it is today, good or bad, you all decide.

I saw this sign at my area office. “The rank is the one that you wear on your shoulder but respect is the one that you earn” I think both has diminished for the MM … a long time ago.

Politics is all about persuading the masses. And of the three traditional forms of rhetoric, the ignorant masses only subscribe to the least productive two – ethos (you are right because you are LKY) and pathos (you are right because I can’t imagine a Singapore without you). One wonders why despite our emphasis on education, so few of our citizens are capable of critical thinking. And more saliently, why aren’t the few who can recognize the cogency of arguments, not possess the ambition and candour to step up to the plate and do something for the nation? We need more Catherine Lims in Singapore.

@ Kwan Jin Yao on September 1st, 2009 4.30 pm

“To say that MM Lee has no respect for Singapore or Singaporeans is laughable

for a man who once said

“Between being loved and being feared, I have always believed Machiavelli was right.”

” If nobody is afraid of me, I’m meaningless.”

i am not so sure if he is even capable of respecting and loving singaporeans.

what do you think?

If you compared in the 70s and now, I think Singapore has opened up in term freedom of speech but you may say that it was not enough. What is enough and do you think we can satisfy everyone , I did not think so. Let ask ourselves again, we have no worries in our daily basic need but compared with other neighbouring countries, we were more fortunate than them. Maybe we did not go though any strikes, racial riot and any major disasters, we cannot totally appreciate how our ancestors and MM Lee had experienced it but they were very clear that if we played the racial fire again, the fire would burn off the whole forest and our past efforts that we had build would go down to the drain. If you know that your children try playing the fire, would you stop them immediately or let them burn the whole forest. Did you think those countries that had gone thru and experience racial riot would prefer freedom of speech or peace. Time has change, we cannot do what we had used to do because and I agreed that Y & Z generations need more space to breath and give their views openly but I hope that we must be careful when we dealing with any racial issues because living harmony with different races is always a challenge and we cannot take for granted.

Why should anyone respect that person who only thought of constantly promoting himself as though he is God and emperor and the final word but yet unaccountable for his own action and words ?

Remember how the old fart blame that investors went in with their eyes wide open on minibond , only to find that the Town Council and government org also went for for MiniBomb ? What happen then ? Like father, like son, old fart went into disappearance mode and pretend nothing he says of when get exposed, even more so for media ! And this is not the only case.

aiyoyo

red dot has come somewhat a long way

but looking at current & next steps forward,

how can elites bring red dot further?

or is it this is the best red dot can do?

not to forget commoners livelihood & quality of life too

aiyoyo

Hi @52) ckks2930,

You tell your child when he is a todler to not play with fire.
You remind him when he is a young child to not play with fire.
You might still occassionally remind him when he has grown to be a young teenager to not play with fire.
Still, you may give him a gentle reminder during his young adulthood to not play with fire.

But surely, you are not going to continue reminding him when he turns thirty, or forthy, or fifty that he should not be playing with fire.

One single man able to instill fear to the whole nation.

This man must be respected, if for nothing, his ability

to silent the whole lot of his citizenry.

I cannot recall any leader in history that was/is so powerful.

Me fears giving him any deference, i am too scared.

It is so scary just to hear his name.

Maybe, just maybe, the 82 Members mentioned are just like me

patriot

Hi Gemami

Well said!!!

The original argument of 52) is just a regurgitation of the official strategy of scare tactics. Borrowing your illustration, the parents just need to grow up and deal with the children who are already adults!!

40) Richard Seah on September 1st, 2009 10.54 pm

I urge all readers or their friends and relatives to report your bad encounters with the system so that more can know about it.

LKY was founding father of S,pore. During my study years, I was at awe for a man with such great vision and determination to fight for the people of Singapore.
He did succeed not alone but with many able people around him.

But, ruthlessly he eliminated one after the other, Lim Chin Siong, especially was his right hand man. On after the other fell like dominoes. Finally, he consolidated his power to rule Spore. For a start, it was good and we saw Spore progressed and housing built for the poor and lives was happy. The then PAP and LKY was really caring for the people. No self-writen paychecks to the millions. No big taxes on the masses.

Time changes the perception of power in a person. To this day, S’pore has degenerated into a sad and elitist state where money talks in all circles. Household bills, hospital bills, highly price HDB flats beyond the reach of many.
LKY and his cronies enjoyed the fruit of the citizens labour by enriching themselves legally and the poor average citizens have to live with many payments for life: GST, ERP ,COE, PUB, COL you name it.

His two memoirs, I read to try to understand him better. His ideas and the historic events unfolded a man of great desire to succeed at all cause. LKY did succeed.

Should we respect him? Many do and will. He is a legend in his own rights.
Indubitably, no one will come near in comparision to what was achieved during those years of nation building. But let us not forget, many of his comrades should be applauded too.

Sad for him now. As we reach the highest peak. We have to descent. We should descent gracefully. No man is great if he cannot conquer himself. LKY has lost his way down. Sad, sad sad.

I still hold LKY in high esteem for what he did as a capable leader for Singapore,
but to respect him now, let us see his last few years of performance index. Frankly, I seem to respect his daughter Lee Wei Ling better now. She is having a heart for the poor and a voice from the wilderness. A real wild card of DNA.

@59) leesjuanpat,

The only legacy left of the man is his laurels. Should we defer to laurels when building for the future?

@57) kaomangai,

You’re right! And guess what? Many of the twenty-somethings of today are all grown up already, yet they are still being treated like kids.

15) george on September 1st, 2009 5.07 pm
“Over the last few years, LKY’s decision to award million dallor wages to ministers was taken without any consultation with the voters of Singapore.”

But can someone tell me honestly,
do the Youths complain at all?

they are our so-called future pillars.

if they accept, that maybe our future.
good or bad is not my point.

To put him in a nutshell:

Before:
LKY (PAP) fought for S’pore’s survival. Succeeded.

Then:
LKY (PAP) fought for PAP’s future. Succeeded with the loss of integrity.

Present:
LKY fighting for his family’s control over S’pore and its wealth.
Still hanging on.

Near future:
A probable ignominous exit for LKY and family.

This will be a fitting finale for all our grievances. The sooner the better for Singapore’s future.

Defer to the old man and pay the consequences of his highfalutin policies. The jury is still out there on his numerous policies and we are still living the outcome of his social engineering. I wonder who is the actual president or prime minister after all these years. What about those people sitting in parliament? are they spectators or cheerleaders?

LKY = Demolition Man.

Consider not just how many ideas he demolished, but also how many lives and livelihoods — of all his rivals and perceived rivals, including those so-called Marxist conspirators of the 1980s who were no more than harmless do-gooders fighting for the rights of workers, including foreign workers.

I personally know the “chief Marxist” Vincent Cheng. LKY and gang portrayed him as a dangerous man plotting to overthrow the garmen and establish a Marxist state. In reality, he is so meek and humble, currently giving shiatsu massage to earn a living.

Well, instead of a Marxist state, we have a Machiavellian state run by an old Demolition Man!

BTW: Did you guys notice the front page headline in The Nude Paper a few days ago: From Mentor to Predator!

LOL!

When people start reading memoir of LKY, did they even ask themselves how much of memoir is partisan of LKY and how much is really true ? Do people respect LKY because of what he read from his book and ShittyTimes ? Did we not question the book itself of how much is been censor to make the emperor look good ? For his book that promote himself more, I read a few chapters and find it disgusting.

A true leader or a great sportsman is one who knows when to quit and retire,
usually at the peak of their career eg Peter Sampras or Mendela.
For his achievements in earlier years, LKY could have gone down in history with a host of accolades but for his selfish reluctance to relinquish power and the reversal of all the good done, his story would be written otherwise.
A sad sad finale indeed

I thought Visa was talking about levelling the playing field, and equality for all Singaporeans. The current move to bring in mainland Chinese to mantain ethnic ratios in the name of arresting the declining population might appear to some a scheme to maintain the Chinese superiority, at least in numbers.
Did LKY purposely chose to miss the point in Visa’s maiden speech to Parliament and go off on a tangent, preaching special treatment for the Malay minority?
Delivered in a thundering tone, LKY’s riposte demolished what Viswa had set out to — a call for a more open, caring Singapore society and an end to the CMIO fault lines.
Shouldn’t the MSM address these conflicting signals? Or have they given up, realising the futility of honest, independent reporting?

[i]ckks2930 on September 2nd, 2009 2.11 am
If you know that your children try playing the fire, would you stop them immediately or let them burn the whole forest.[/i]
and without a doubt hoching didn’t light the matches @ all
and our prince didn’t go to 7/11 to buy the matches with leekuanyew didn’t give her some paper$ to burn as well…
now regardin freedom of speech…. you are livin in russia or afganistan?
what is called REPUBLIC?

The good old days may be over for him. I don’t know how long can PAP sustain without him.

“The good old days may be over for him. I don’t know how long can PAP sustain without him. ”

Well, it depends on the Genes available in singapore.
For 50 years, the opposition could not bring them down.

The situation may last forever even if he is no longer ‘in the picture’ ;)

Singaporeans have proven that there is no one more capable than him.
just my view only.
Feel free to disagree. I luv people who disagree.

peace.

respect needs to be earned truthfully, transparent, sharing with and respect commoners and highly integrity level and not by misleaded, threat, without transparency, nepotism, power control freak and spewed nonsense and continue to hold power to drop dead.

to me he is crazy nut.

Is sad to say LHL is still a shadow of his father. Got the seat but no power to overriide any decision/ The old man still in control of everything. Sad to see old lee had to struggle every day, worrying whether HL can handle or not.

I can say that our PM’s health may not able to take this kind of load. You can see that he aged so much compare to his old photo. Don’t forget that he still have cancer cells in his body.

To 8) Anonymous on September 1st, 2009 4.36 pm

“I wonder how Singaporean react and remember MM when it is his turn to RIP. Will people remember and revere JBJ more than LKY? ”

It depends on his wealth. The greater the amount, the less he is revered.

#77

Personally, I will remember JBJ better than LKY. The former a great fighter for the people. To him LKY is a great bully, using the system under his control to sue and bankrupt JBJ. A real fearless man of integrity. Really live and die for the country.

Morality and religion are the crutches for the weak.

[...] vs Sadasivan – TOC: We should respect MM Lee, but not defer to him – The Brotherhood Press: The Day The House Came Down On A Souffle – Part [...]

79) OriginalResonance on September 2nd, 2009 6.03 pm
“Morality and religion are the crutches for the weak. ”

I bet $10 you are a young male person.
I was like you. haha, those were the days.
You will mature in maybe 10 years time.
Your words may haunt you down the road.

I pray and pray it will not.

Sure, lets also respect the Burmese generals and HItler. HEIL!

If all ministers and MPs don’t dare to stand up to LKY, I wonder if LKY weren’t around, how would these so-called leaders stand up for the rights of Singapore if a regional strongman should emerge. Could this generation of yesmen deal with a strongman like Sukarno if one were to emerge in Indonesia? Could they deal with someone like another Mahathir?

Could this generation of yesmen deal with a strongman like Sukarno if one were to emerge in Indonesia? Could they deal with someone like another Mahathir?

No problem for them, they could have already packed and left the country with those load of $$$ along with them, leaving behind all those shits for you people to clean up/

Life is …

Your failures should not serve as an extrapolation of the experiences of others. Take heed. If maturity/wisdom is commensurate with ageing, then we would be seeing a rampant worshipping of geriatrics all around the world. Instead, we end up with stories like “Old folks abandoned by children” or “How to arrest an ageing population”. The young ones must be missing something or perhaps the aged aren’t necessarily wiser for their experiences.

My words will not haunt me because I did not for once proclaim that I’m perfect and infallible. I recognize that I might have flaws. However, I refuse to let them hold siege of me. After all, isn’t life all about striving? We would be better off without crutches, really.

just my two cent worth, I voted for our government during my first voting, 2nd voting neutral, 3rd voting, mybe we need a change as they may be too costly for us to substain and support, this is especially so when we started to have family, from single to married, with home commitment, more and higher bills to pay, with aging parents and future hospital bills which many feel are costly in Singapore despite subsidies and competition from foreign talents which have caused job losses of our friends or relatives at different levels.

“….I bet $10 you are a young male person.”

I think he is the young 17 year old chap who once wrote an article for TOC. I may be wrong but he sure has the same writing style and language.

I thank Lee Kuan Yew for what Singapore is today and the peace and security we have today. But we cannot still be living in the past as he always seems to be , we have to move on in life.

Just like a river flowing it does not flow backwards! The new generation has to evolve on its own , make it’s own mistakes and learn from them. We cannot always be spoon fed.

Our MM thinks Singapore and the world cannot survive without him. He will be proved wrong. No one is indispensable not even our MM. And please stop telling the world how to live how to run their own country and lives just as you would not like others to tell you how to rin yours.

Lucky others dont take to suing singapore! Hopefully MM will try to just enjoy his last few years in peace . It’s time to let go!

Yodi #88

Let go he will not with the 3 million per annum paycheck.
He wants to bring all the cash into the netherworld to form another PAP
gahmen in hell to help the poor wretched hungry ghosts. Good thought MM.

“It is time to let go”. How, may I ask ? with the famiLEE as the sole guardian
of Singapore. MM Lee will let go, only when he breathes his last breath. And
he may turn in his grave anything, so beware !!

It’s disturbing to see how parliament looks like one big gathering of little children coming together to recite their compositions to Papa and elder brother. Those little children who wrote things that made Papa and elder bro look good got sweets while those kids who wrote the wrong things got scolded. I thought parliament is supposed to be a debate among equals; not the gathering to listen to the ‘truth’ from 1 person’s perspective.

looks more like the imperial court of a failing dynasty where eunuchs and yes-man rule.

MM Lee has done great things for Singapore but we have to remember that on the scale of things, he’s not the world’s biggest shot nor is he an expert on everything. His words are not necessarily law.

One of the biggest incidences of being brought down to reality was when I was sent t o Saudi Arabia around about the first time he went over. His trip got a tinny mention in the business pages of the English press – headline read, “Alwaleed meets Singapore’s Yew.” Then when I came home, I found that his visit was front page news. You couldn’t escape headlines about how “MM TELLS Saudi Arabia…”

I think such incidences help to highlight that the man gets smaller the further away from Singapore he gets.

91) You’re right, friends and kin say the same thing, it’s only a tiny mention in their news papers when our leaders visit overseas. China is just being courteous to our leaders. I hear they loath our leaders, abit like smart alexs.

85) OriginalResonance on September 3rd, 2009 1.25 am

“Your failures should not serve as an extrapolation of the experiences of others.”
>> When you get older, you will understand that life is not about success and failures.

“Take heed. If maturity/wisdom is commensurate with ageing, then we would be seeing a rampant worshipping of geriatrics all around the world. Instead, we end up with stories like “Old folks abandoned by children” or “How to arrest an ageing population”.
>> When I was young, my father was a sailor. I rarely sees him, I barely miss him. He supports the family – but I couldn’t see that, as I was young. I was self-righteous; my view is that he should have find a job here so that he can spend more time with us. I forgot about his interest, his aspiration, what he enjoys most. I learned this as I am exposure to more things in the later stage of my life – time allows all this to happen.

“The young ones must be missing something or perhaps the aged aren’t necessarily wiser for their experiences.”
>> A bit of both perhaps?

“My words will not haunt me because I did not for once proclaim that I’m perfect and infallible. ”
>> In my opinion, you are straying towards Wee Shu Min’s mentality when she wrote the famous quote “get out of my elite uncaring face”. She forgots that there are certain things in life that is beyond control – life experience will teach you that.

“I recognize that I might have flaws. However, I refuse to let them hold siege of me. After all, isn’t life all about striving? We would be better off without crutches, really.”
>> You’re half right. If you write a diary, penned the above today – and make a schedule say 10 years down the road to look at this again – it will have a totally different meaning.

When i was in primary school, i was asked to write an essay titled ” The person I admired most”. I put down the person as LKY, then the PM of Singapore. Incidentally, i got pretty high marks for that essay.

Now that i have matured in age and in thought (i hope!), after seeing how power is used to quashed any form of dissent, how differing views are scoffed at publicly, how any form of critiicsm is brought to courts, how pride and self praise is often publcised, how press is silenced, nepotism, how unfair politics have become, etc, etc, if i were to write another essay now on whom i admire most, sorry it would no longer be LKY.

Somehow, there is something that is sorely lacking in him that i find disillusioned over the years and that is compassion.

I think compassion is what make us human in the context of living with others in a society, Without compassion in the heart, i might say that he lost his humnaness despite whatever achievements he may have achieved.

If you can earn more than you ever did while doing a lot less with less responsibility, would you want to give up that job?

94) joe on September 3rd, 2009 10.57 am ,

my sentitment on him 100% same as yours.

91) Tang Li on September 3rd, 2009 10.01 am ,

tang, today’s shit time have his story of making suggestion to american on the chinese who study and work there.

well, as usual!

Re #94,
Hi Joe, I agree with you

MM is cold and lack of compassion, closer to a transformer than a mankind.

But, he is the product of the past, struggled with and out-maneuvered the communists, his tactics might even able to beat the KGB..

In comparison, SM Goh seems a better people’s leader, till the bubble burst when he fell well short of people’s expectation and become a By-product of MM

MM Lee motto must be “shoot 1st, ask later”….

never think 1st than act, old habits die hard…

is MM Lee loosing sight of the big picture (the progress of a nation)?

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/ap/20090903/tap-as-singapore-lee-kuan-yew-election-832f4ab.html

“But if we don’t find a good team in the election after that, and the opposition gets a good team together, we are at risk.”

to miss the forest for a tree… :(

can someone tell me that means if their team lousy, they also won’t step down? like a familiar junta…

Why is it that the members of parliament would quiver and hold their pee whenever he speaks?
Why do we have to swallow everytime he spits?
Having differing views from him is not disrespect the last I checked. Unless in his dictionary – disrespect means:
1) Having a mind of your own
2) Having your own Thoughts & Opinions
3) Speaking out for your beliefs
Than in this case, we would be no different from robots pre-programmed from young to think in the PAP mode – obey and relent – no qns asked! And they complain we are not creative, imaginative or innovative! How to be when our brains have to be tied to our arse from young?!

People will remember Lee Kuan Yew for
- bankrupting JBJ
- arresting Lim Chin Siong with the ISA
- Operation Coldstore
- Operation Spectrum

If not for his political purges, Singapore would be a better place to live in.

I’m truly disappointed with the Parliament. Why are ministers paid so much just to sit in, listen and eventually echo ‘YES SIR’??

There are basically two types of people. People who accomplish things, and people who claim to have accomplished things. The first group is less crowded.
- Mark Twain

Kaffein

LOL, we should commission a postal stamp bearing the portrait of MM Lee.
Which side of the stamp you put your spit will determine how you respect MM.
Just a reminder, doing so on the wrong side, the stamp will not stick.

[...] “..the saddest and most unfortunate thing about the Viswa Sadasivan episode is one of lost opportunity.” Andrew Loh [...]

The beauty of the Singapore system is that we’re actually debating this topic. Elsewhere, the idea of a leader being respected but not revered would make common sense. I mean, I know allot of Britons who respect Thatcher but do not worship. Let’s not even go so far – cross the Causeway and you’ll find Malaysians who respect the good things that Mahathir did but don’t worship the ground he walks on.

Seriously, it’s common sense that MM Lee has to be respected for the good things that he’s done but not worshiped by the population. Then again, when was common sense a virtue in the Singapore political arena.

Let’s look at the most common argument when it comes to MM Lee – He has allot of wisdom and experiences that can benefit Singapore so he needs to have a cabinate rank. We all accept that as if it were the gospel.

I don’t deny that he has experience and is able to contribute. I say, if he’s still able to contribute to Singapore he should. But I don’t think it’s common sense that he should remain in cabinate. Surely he can do things like write books and give talk shows. He can give lectures as former US Presidents often do or be sent to handle certain diplomatic missions. Given his closeness to the current cabinate, it cannot be common sense to think that he needs to be in the cabinate to give advice to the ministers.

If anything, it speaks poorly of our Ministers that we still MM Lee in the cabinate. It’s something the powers that be should consider.

“You Either Die A Hero, Or Live Long Enough To See Yourself Become The Villain.”
enough said.

Hi Andrew,

Very appropriate, timely and well written article. It strikes a chord inside me. I have been wanting to write such things about him and us (Singaporeans) but you have done it so nicely and superbly for me. Thanks.

This Old Man is now hampering Singapore’s progress to its next height, perhaps due to his personal fear of losing his own legacy or being paranoid of the inevitable downfall of the PAP in the future.

The glaring sad thing is not so much of the Old Man being respected and deferred but the irony of all the top cabinet leaders and member of parliaments keeping quiet about the obvious mistake that he has made regarding our national pledge as just an “aspiration”. This incident shows the cowardice and unthinking behavior of our top leaders who are supposedly very outstanding. It demonstrates a very serious weakness in our system. This is tragic!

Collectively, as a people, we must from now on refrain from giving him too much due respect. We should only accord respect where respect is due and accord deference only when we have considered that it will be good for our country’s future.

In fact, I once admired and respected him especially in the early years but no more during the last 15 years. His high-handedness, that he has again demonstrated, in demolishing a possible up-and-coming challenge to his ideas and the PAP’s archaic modus operandi is the very thing that really puts me off. (Sometimes I wonder whether he feels as though he is the King or Emperor.)

I sincerely believe that his continue presence in the political arena will do the PAP and Singapore more damage than good. I think he should gracefully step out of power and influence now if he truly believed in the good future of Singapore.

I would even go one step further. In order to facilitate a New Singapore to sprout, not only he should totally step down and out of the scene, but also all his close relatives, e.g. sons, daughters, in-laws, etc, should try to steer away from any political influence/power as far as possible.

For the good of Singapore, we should shake off the “ghosts” of the Lee era as early as possible because it has now become a stumbling block. And this is very necessary.

For a start, as you have suggested, we should stop deferring to the Man (including his family members) unnecessarily.

Last time, many years ago, when I look at his photo, I felt proud and full of respect for this man. Now, when I look at his photo, I feel sickened and want to vomit; I simply feel disgusted and repulsed – I don’t know why.

I fully agree that we should all, from now on, never try to carry his balls and kowtow to him just because of his stature and status.

I agree with what 9) True Patriot Down South said, “Does he have to literally Die before people see him for the mortal he really is?”

Anyway, this whole issue about fear and respect is just ridiculous.

Is he respected only because he is? Can there be fear if we do not fear him? Problem is, we gave him the respect, likewise with the fear.

And now that we fear, we ascribe that negativity in our emotions to him. Now that he’s doing less, we demand to retract the respect we had once given him.

Adding on to that, we’re judging him based on relativity: how much he has done in the past, and how much less he is doing now (though still much more than every of us)

Think: is that fair to him?

I do not question my love for This Man who built the nation in her early years. Neither do I question anyone’s. I do not place expectations on everyone’s faith towards him as the father of Singapore, but I do hope that we’ll be fair in our judgement of him. Even as the years go by.