While about a 1000 Sinkaporean born citizen left the country each month according to some estimate, there being replaced faster by new citizen. The Sinkapore as we know it will change will this new influx for good or bad. However, it is the PAP regime policy and we the citizen don’t have a say at all. It is for the good of the country or is it just for PAP? What they had done is just to buy some extra time as these new immigrant will soon discover that their income is allot less then their outgoing/expenditure. At the moment, many live fragully like when they were back home. But their expectation of life in Sinkapore will in time move closer to those that are currently Sinkaporean born citizen. I supposed the PAP regime could continue this import as long as they are needed. The regime should have focus more on why Sinkaporean born citizen are leaving and address those issues rather then using a quick fix solution. New immigrants will bring new problem which at this moment is not apparent yet. The obviousissue for many Sinkapore male is NS and employers having to foot the cost of annual reservist training while the staff was away.My job was taken over by a Malaysian when I was away doing my NS obligation only to discover that there was not really a job for me. I was taken in again based solely because they had too but my prospect was as bright as a moonless night. Beside I was back on my old salary while my Malaysian collede was on a higher band. These are issues that we Sinkaporean male had to live with. What is the gahment going to do about it.

It’s about time we recognise the contributions of NSmen, (reservists, retired NSmen) by

(i) giving them FREE medical health care and hospitalisation up to ward B2 for their whole life-time

(ii) 50% discount in buying of HDB flats

New “citizens” employers are not hiring true blue-blooded male Singaporeans because of their NS liabilities.

So far, the PAP government have not addressed the GREAT SACRIFICES of the NSmen. They have only paid lip service and cheap $5 lunches on armed forces day.

The PAP government will only act if they lose a few GRCs and single seats.

It is obvious we know what to do this coming election.

They are opening the floodgates in order to keep themselves in power.

I anticipate the people in this country will pay a high price because of their selfishness.

Already, we can feel the effects of such a misguided policy.

No worries that them stay here for another two-three years.
This scenario has happen in the past decade, where Taiwanese ,Honkey Indonesian & some of the PRC have tasted it. THen they will know been “con”. They will scream & curse for “Chao”
Ah——–Ah———-Ah——-Ah——

yes, yes, open the door wider, our pregnant local women & our NS serving men will just have to “moderate our expectations” further south, “not be choosey” & be thankful that they “provide jobs for local (true blue) S’poreans?…

lmao…

what is our leaders doing to increase the value of our (much talked about) world class workforce? which world class workforce live on 3rd world salaries & conditions?

Mr Leong,

An error in your article.

“The percentage of citizens in the total population has gradually declined from 86.1% in 1990 to 74% now. ”

It should be from 86.1% in 1990 to 64% now….not 74%.

Sze Hian,

Looking at 2008 data: Total population increase = 251k & citizen increase = 31k.

Ignoring the fact that the 21k new citizens is for calendar year, local born among citizen increase: 31k – 21k = 10k.

From which I conclude that local-born contributed to just 4% of 2008 population growth. In other words, we are now virtually totally dependent on foreign-born for population growth.

If I take your estimates for citizen births & deaths, then emigrants =
16.7k + 21k – 31k = 6.7k

A question is, when sgp demographics is been drastically changed by the new citizen…how will it affect future outlook…

just because our population is having growth with the influx of those people ain’t good enough…but will those people be able to cater to the needs for the companies that our gahmen has been courting…

The swopping of citizenship is already on their pipeline, slowly but surely the local born singaporeans will be replaced anyway just to keep those greedy elites to stay in power. Singaporeans please wake up from those elusive dreams of yours into believing whats been told to you all these years and find that you people been played out all the time.

Hi Sze Hian
As pointed out earlier of the error:
“What was not highlighted is that non-citizens account for about 36 per cent of the total population. The percentage of citizens in the total population has gradually declined from 86.1% in 1990 to 74% now. ”

Assuming 74% now is correct (and sounds reasonable), then the non-citizen is 26%. Compunded over 18 years is 2.8% growth. While 2.8% may not sound high, this is in fact much larger than our natural population growth of 0.8%* in 2008.

Computed from:
“There were 39,826 live-births in 2008, of which 37,277 were resident births (with at least one parent being a Singapore resident). ”
and a 2008 population of 4.85million

If we project current 18-year trend to another 18 years in 2036:

Citizens : 4.27million (68%)
Non Citizens: 1.972 million (32%)
Total Population: 6.242 million

Note: A majority of us will live to see the 6.5million population projection which was discussed last year, and conveniently swept under the carpet.

Govt should tackle the problem instead of keep bringing in foreigners. Why true born singaporeans becoming less and less ?? Govt keep blaming singaporeans don’t produce, don’t get married, etc…… but it does not find out the real problems facing us. MPs are good for nothing, the feed back sessions are useless.

Think not just for yourself, think for your children and beyond. Do they have a future if this continues. They now target 6.6 mil (plucked from the air), when this is met, what is to stop them targetting 10 mil? ALL the PM ever wants to see from his minister is $$$ and more $$$! If not, he won’t turn a blind eye.

With Temasek and GIC losing our CPF monies, someone needs to cover the liabilities of PAP. It is not accidental the we saw a population boom in 2008, during the abyss of depression, and when our economy cannot create job for immigrant.

Soon the aging Singaporean will withdraw from CPF, cash out HDB. Who is going to take over all this?

This is really a sad thing for us. Every country which proper take care of their citizen, restrict migration except ours.

This is due to our collective wickness. This policy got support from all of our elite, all our parents (happy to see HDB resale rises).

Young people were damn!

Hi JW,

What utter rubbish are you spewing (pun intended). The government owe it to every Singaporean to take care of them, not just NS men and their contribution.

You must begin to think big and wide. The PAP’s view is already so narrow; don’t make it any more narrow than it is.

As it is now, new citizens are being classified Singaporeans without each of them knowing the true meaning of being Singaporean. The races; Chinese, Malay, Indians and Eurasians have taken 50 years to create the Singaporean identity we have today.

How can a Chinese or Indian or Malay or European from another country just simply step on our shores and begin to call themselves Singaporeans? They can call themselves Chinese, Indians, Malays etc but they cannot put claim to being Singaporean until and unless the fully understand who we are and the characteristics that make us Singaporeans.

how come the foreigners are able to come here and find jobs.. which implies the government is able to generate lot of new jobs.. somebody please explain..

what are the new growth industries that are providing jobs to these foreigners..

can somebody please explain?? how are these foreigners are able to survive in this expensive jungle unless they find lucrative jobs??

Re Kan

PRC Chinese in home country suffer 10% and more of jobless. In some dalipilated city probably 20%. It is natural that they find life in Singapore less harsh and are willing to be exploited.

That does not mean Singaporean need to brood with the imported unemployment. This place is built by all of us and we are just a small red dot to be such charitable.

Many PRC Chinese are just living hand to mouth paying rent to the landlords, driving up property. Sure HDB, capitalland will be happy.

Have anyone observe some of our infrastructure already crumbling? Go Changi beach and you find the the seawater is perpetual too sewage for swimming.

With such population growth, sooner our East Coast will be a shit bowl.

I think PAP will stop importing when unemployment hit 8% nevertheless. Loong recent speech to curn immigrant is not charity, its that our employment market already hit limit. Beyond that, we might have a regime change in next election.

Generating jobs has to be in line and in tandem with the government’s own policy on immigration. These jobs were mainly created with the foreigner in mind, not Singaporeans. This has already been explained – that Singaporeans are unproductive.

Last 2 years a lot of PRs are offered, especially those from China and India. I notice, even old women and men from China, were offered and those with o level equivalent or some even without education (e.g. kitchen helper in restaurant etc) all holding red passports. Bulk of the PRs would be offered citizenship as soon as they arrive, perhaps within 6 months to 12 months.

I guess they feel that the ground is getting very unhappy with their policies and a lot would switch camps, so they are trying to dilute the population with new citizens to give them the edge in election. I had asked some of the new citizens, they are very happy with the speed of their approval and application which is rarely seen in any country, which means they would vote for the government, ironically for efficiency and welcome.

I guess the government is too smart for many of us, they already planned far ahead, with many scenarios planned and mapped. And decided to use influx of new citizens as the latest election strategy. as you can see, this election is being dragged to the tip of 5 year, which is rarely the case in the past. This allows new citizens to asssimilate . The new citizens dont feel much as yet, they have not been here long enough, so likely to reciprocate by giving them their votes.

In short, the election 2011 is getting very difficult for opposition. First we have those die hards, then we have those kiasu/kiasi (who would do anything for paid upgrading, gst credits and repercussions) and now they have another group of so called new citizens to convince? So how?

So the local born citizens whether you tu lang or not, would mean little to what seem to be a losing game.

Re: Gemini 16)

Singaporean is the most hardworking, honest and clever employee. Statistic have shown that Singaporean work one of the longest hour.

It is our elites’ top down, carry balls, anti dissident, exploitive that is anti productivity.

Go compare Singaporean with French. French has 35 hour week, 30 annual leave per year, 1 year maternity leave, militant trade union….much more much more….etc

It is their elite who are smart and able to manage these people into productivity.

Our elites are stupid but they simply know how to credit is me, dirty job and fault is singaporean.

10) EastEndBoy on October 1st, 2009 6.30 pm

As pointed out earlier of the error:
“What was not highlighted is that non-citizens account for about 36 per cent of the total population. The percentage of citizens in the total population has gradually declined from 86.1% in 1990 to 74% now. ”

The correct figure is 64%, not 74%.

Singapore is the only country in the world that hands out new citizenship & PRs’ like distributing freebies,what on earth is PAP thinking?After hearing stories of Foreign Legion apply for PR within 6 months,that gets approved with immediate effect.Lax of immigration policy,nothing stringent about the calibration of influx of foreign invasion from other countries,our forefathers toiled for this nation from the day Sir Stamford Raffles stepped foot on this unknown island,our forefathers sacrificed everything so as Singapore can be what it is today – A FIRST CLASS NATION WITH A BOOMING ECONOMY,A STRATEGIC LOCATION FOR ANY FOREIGN INVESTOR TO PUMP MONEY ON THIS ISLAND!

I’m glad i am in London now,getting my degree & preparing to set foot in the US as well to commence a new business,a land of opportunities as what US has always been,most of my friends & relatives have migrated to either Canada,US,Europe or Down Under….my fellow S’poreans,lest we become strangers in our own land,i foresee that our future here in Spore is indeed bleak for Gen Y.More & more foreigners are questioning our lifestyle,demand their way out of any situation,ask for freebies as if Singapore owes them a living….this doesn’t happen anywhere else,only in Singapore,with the new citizens who some refuse to serve the nation either by NS or doing charity or volunteer work,the 10million dollar fund implemented by our beloved Integration Council will go down as one of the worst days in the history for Spore,i told this to the Brits,they laughed their butts off…..from a colonial system to a cranky nestum!

even Geylang “babes” do not open their “door” that wide!!

lol…

Time to scrap NS—-there are so many newbies and PR being exempted from NS,it has become meaningless.
Meanwhile the so-called trained reservists are migrating in droves.
What a waste of time.
Trained—emigrate.
Immigrated newbies—exempted.
Pretty soon —only one in hundred will carry the burden.

Please do not forget that many foreigners have accepted citizenship in the last few years. True Singaporeans probably account for only 45 per cent of the total population. We are already a minority but it is still not too late to put a stop to this ridiculous influx of trash.

It is time for every true blooded Singaporean to come together and vote for CHANGE in the coming elections. It will be too late in the next elections. As it is, the actual number of Singaporeans leaving for greener pastures is probably closer to 20,000 per year.

Don’t sacrifice the future of your children and your children’s children because of year. Don’t regret in your old age that you did nothing to ensure that they lived better lives than us.

Now is the time for Change.

James Michael Parthi,
Singapore is what you get when you have comedians and clowns running the country. Singapore exists for the world to laugh at and exploit. The old fart and his cronies have demonstrated to the world how to laugh and exploit Singaporeans, and hence foreign companies come to Singapore to create scam and con business to do likewise. Now those clowns tell the world “see, I tell you before, how easy to do business in Singapore, be it monkey business, scam, sham ,deceit business as long as it is business that generate GDP for the SINLAND. Welcome to SIN LAND.”

This island will belong to Singapore for day infinite. Whether they are immigrants or not, in 70 years, those still alive are those born in Singapore now (whether children of singaporeans or foreigners). At the end of the day, Singapore is still very much for Singaporeans. The world is your playground now Singaporeans. Don’t see this island as the only place you can call home. At this point in time, Singapore is definitely a better place to live than all Asian countries. If u really want a change of lifestyle and pace of living, consider the west. If not, be grateful we’re Singaporeans. This land will always belong to us( hey only Singaporeans can defend Singapore right?) SAF is 100% Singaporeans, SPF is 100% Singaporeans. Migrants can dictate their way of life as much as we want them to. At this moment, I have not seen any Singaporeans becoming less Singaporeans because of the 1.8million foreigners in our midst. FYI, I’m not a fan of LKY and his lackeys. Don’t fear him, let him fear us.

One thing that really sucks is how true blue Singaporean single mothers cannot get the baby bonus while foreign mothers who have accepted Singapore citizenship but are here temporarily can get it. These Singaporean mothers are made to struggle to bring up their children while these foreign mothers lap it up in luxury. Yet the sons of these single mothers are expected to sacrifice their lives for this country. Where is the justice??? Where is the justice???

Muhamad Nur

Please don’t feed us your BS. You must be living with you eyes close to think that 3 million foreigners in our midst has not changed the character of this country.

And don’t think that we are so dumb as to sacrifice our children in a conflict so that these foreigners can continue to work here comfortably and enjoy the benefits while our sons get killed on the battlefield.

If there is no change in the government after the next election, there will be a mass exodus of Singaporeans to Australia and the West.

New Era, single parent mother should also get baby bonus? You want govt in a way to be seen as encouraging single parenthood? No no, please please….. I think your parents and grandparents don’t agree too. You should seek justice from your own parents and grandparents. I think the govt can offend you but they won’t ever offend your parents and grandparents, their approach is on the right path.

We’re turning into Chinapore.

Singaporekia,

So you think that these mothers should struggle to bring up their children. These women might have made a mistake (who knows???) but should their children pay the price.

And what of these foreign trash who get the baby bonus. Who knows what they have been up to, to get the bonuses.

This will surely be a big issue in this coming elections.

Re: I have mentioned some data about foreign content in another article. This new citizens/foreigners influx has been going on right under our noses.

Singapore foreign-born population = 36% (2009),
UK = 9.7% (2005)
OEDC average = 11.2% (for 2004)
US = 12.9% (12.5% for 2008)
Canada = 19.1% (2005)
Australia = 23.4% (2005)
Switzerland = 23.8% (2005)
Austria = 13.5% (2005)
Sweden = 12.4% (2005)
Ireland = 11% (2005)

To recall: Increase in foreign-born population is typically 1% for every decade in these countries; we have 1% increase from 2008 to 2009!

Daniel

post #25 on October 1st, 2009 10.50 pm

now you know why Merlion vomit, too much trash!! :)

New Era, there are many ways in helping single parent but not under national policy such as baby bonus. Actually the govt should not be giving baby bonus, I don’t know why they want to give away money which at the end it benefitted all those childcare centers operator. Most of the private childcare center are charging around S$800 and they are all taking advantage of the S$300 govt subsidy drawn from baby bonus. Some of the center are taking in as much as 16 kids per class under the care of one teacher drawing a salary of S$1300. So if you are in childcare, be the boss and not the teacher.

HI Muhamad Nur,

You speak as if most Singaporeans have a choice to choose between the world and Singapore as their home. This thing about being global and having the world as our playground is just a political notion, a ploy, to have Singaporeans buying into it so that we accept the opening of our doors to more foreigners.

For every Singaporean who has the opportunity to choose between the world and Singapore as their home; there are another ten thousand who do not have this choice – they are stuck here – for better or for worse.

The lamentations you hear each day do not come from those who have already migrated or are thinking of migrating. They come from those who are stuck here, struggling to keep pace with this so-called global notion, while at the same time fending off unwanted competition from foreign aliens.

You also said that Singapore will always belong to Singaporeans. So why can’t we now stand up and protect our interests rather than gritting our teeth just because “… At this moment, I have not seen any Singaporeans becoming less Singaporeans because of the 1.8million foreigners in our midst…”?

Can you say the same words in ten year’s time?

1) George

I hear your pain. My job was taken by cheaper labor from across the causeway too 2 years ago.

I talked to my ex-colleagues recently, locals who are still working there often get lesser salaries than PRs.

It seems although there is a local:foreigner ratio for companies to keep, the company can reduce their local workforce proportion below this ratio when local workers who cannot survive on the meager salaries quit. Then the company hires more PRs from Malaysia, China and India on the pretext that they can’t find local employees.

Bottom line: Not only are we being replaced by foreigners on the national macro scale, we are also being replaced on the micro-scale.

This has been happening for years and years. Instead of voting out the incumbent, Singaporeans(those who had the chance to vote anyway) are too kiasee to see the need for change until they lose their jobs and their homes …and (not-any-more “their”) country.

Singaporekia, please don’t digress from the issue. The concern here is that while the government can spend millions on parties to get foreigners to integrate and millions more on vouchers for foreigners to take English lessons, they are not giving true blue Singaporean single mothers what is rightfully theirs (baby bonus).

Where does the money for the vouchers for English lessons go to?? To owners of language centres.

The baby bonus would be a great help for these single mothers who are struggling to put food on the table for the children and are most probably living in abject poverty.

Singaporeans should come together and fight for this worthy cause.

As for me, I can’t wait to vote for CHANGE in the coming elections.

Hello
I don’t understand the phrase “strangers in our own land”.
I first assume that all those writers who wrote this belong to the current majority race group, Chinese. The Chinese had never owned singapore. It belongs to local malays. Of course.

During the great “diaspora” of the 1950’s, immigrants – foreign talent you can call it – came in great numbers from Fujian, Kwangtung, Hongkong, Ceylon, to Singapore. The local malays here in Singapore – are truly the ones who became “strangers in their own land”, as gradually, these foreign talents – mind you they are the grandfathers of those who grumble in this blogpost – took control of the economy, the politics and the social structure. The population race-ratio was reversed completely.
Luckily, the foreign talents – the grandfathers of those who complain on this blogpost – treated the local real, sons of the soil, very well, and we have a harmonious society by and large, for 44 years in Singapore.

What is so new today about the current wave of immigrants coming in? Now we get a taste of what the local Malays feel during the 1950’s when large groups of foreign talent arrived in singapore.- the grandfathers of those who complain on this blogpost.

History is repeating itself, Singapore is recreating itself. The low population growth rate here requires external factors to resolve it. so we have this govt policy to encourage the new wave. Let us face it, even developed countries are not able to increase population by natural birth with govt policies.

Is the new wave of immigrants a boon or bane? Is it a problem?
I don;t think so. It is a free competition society, Just as it was in the 1950’s.

In many ways, we are going to be better off, with the new wave, who will replace us after we all die. Look at the chinese PR. They speak better, they are more expressive. My hair stands when i see a local born singaporean chinese stammer and speak broken chinese to a chinese PR. I am ashamed of our deplorable standards overall. We have to learn from people who are better instead of condemning. They have pride, they have culture, they speak properly. We must learn from them. They will do good to our cultural makeup. Singaporean chinese who can only speak broken chinese and bad singlish, it is a shame. Or souls rot when we don’t speak our DNA language properly. Many local singaporean chinese have improved their command of the language tremendously because of frequent interaction with people who can speak properly. If we look inward within Singaporean born chinese, we will never ever raise our standards. We speak wrong from the start. Singaporean local Chinese are all starting with English with their babies. This is ridiculous. I hate it. Nobody else in the world will give up their original language and use a caucasiantongue to replace it, without even feeling shameful about it. I really detest hearing broken english baby-speak between singaporean mothers and child, it is utterly disgusting. IT is only the foreign talent who can reverse this trend, insofar as chinese singaporeans are concerned. Perhaps Tamil is more pure also when it comes from native speaker.

Is losing of jobs a problem? Again i point to history. The local malays in the 1950’s were not climbing up very much over the years – precisely because of this foreign talents – the grandfathers of those who complain on this blog. We are just repeating a cycle.
No doubt there will be hardships due to the fact that the foreign immigrants can accept lower pay. And the NS factor.
It is the law of the jungle, survival of the fittest. Those who can, go ahead migrate out. Those who can’t and hve to remain in singapore, well, either die off slowly or else compete successfully in harmony with the new wave. 50 years from now the current new wave will then become the new batch of true singaporeans. There is nothing wrong. Singapore is very unique. We shouldn’t use such insensitive phrase like “stranger in our own land”. Remember the grandfathers of those who complain on this blog post, are the very foreign talents they gripe so much about.

Zero

38) Zero on October 2nd, 2009 9.03 am

When our ancestors came here, the white men were the owners of the land….not the malays. And the white men benefited and prospered from the exploitation of these migrants.

Although now we are the owners of the land, sadly only those wearing white prosper. Most of us do not see any benefit from these new migrants coming here to take our jobs, homes and benefitting from the security (NS) that we the owners provide.

Perhaps it is time now that we do the same as our ancestors did when they could not take it anymore. I anticipate that it will soon be time to boot out the whites again.

anyone knows the easiest way there is to migrate to nice countries like australia / europe or usa or even malaysia?

my problem for not yet migrated is :
1. jobless.
2. nearly 40
3. not a millionaire.

my strengths:
1. degree
2. skills
3. adaptable
4. just want to leave for good

Re Zero

Zero, are you nuts? This is not about jungle law whereby fittest survive, the immigrationto preserve the unfittest PAP and landlord.

During 1819, there are just couple hundreds Malay here with tememgong, so the majority of Malay here is migrant as well. There is no large wave of immigration in 1950s, the door is already closed, one of the reason being China turned communist.

The situation is worse than the jungle law you mentioned, it is outright discrimination against lower class singaporean.

If we want to stick to jungle rule, do it all the way. Why not import Doctors and Lawyers where most of elites are found. Why displaced only the lower income group occupation with migrant?

And with obligation and sacrifice (NS, land Acquisition Act) comes with implicit social contract. I see no rationale in PR getting 60% subsidies in Uni and health care. If government return us all the acquire land and NS obligation, then we can compete fairplay.

<>

You are really idiot saying this. In every country where by a proper obligation is institutionalised among the citizen, there is a new social contract. The American all migrant from Europe are preventing immigration from latin america.

Western Europe predominatly scion of volkerwandering is preventing immigration from North Africa.

YOU ARE REALLY INSULTING INTELLIGENCE OF LEADERS OF ADVANCE COUNTRY.

And with Indonesia much poorer and nearer, y all low income migrant from China? This has alot to do with our dirty politics

Take Australia and Singapore in comparison. Here, the government has a system in place which facilitates for PR ship to GRADUATES students who are undertaking “in demand” courses like engineering, accounting and the likes. Thus ensuring that Australia is getting QUALITY new migrations. Recently, the government here stepped up their English proficiency test ensuring that only capable speaking applicants can be eligible to their PR applications. Which, is a good barrier to protect their citizens and contributing PRs like myself in employments and creating a truly sustainable LOCAL workforce.

Unlike Singkapore, this often hands out PR ships like giving out pamphlets to ToM, DICK & HARRY who some doesn’t even speak English. The PAP just wants NUMBERS and not QUALITY! To think that if Sinkapore is to continue branding herself as an international Biz Hub and with these “new citizens” not able to even communicate properly. Huggh…

As I have not gone home for 3 years, I heard that now in Chinatown, it is predominantly overspilled with PRCs and it seems to be another offshore state of China. Is it truely?

[...] in a Strange Land – TOC: New citizens outstripping net increase of existing citizens? – Feed Me To The Fish: Ungrateful Platoon Commander, Insensitive Leeder – kay poh chee: Any [...]

Listen zero, the orang Asli were the original inhabitants of Malaya. Malays were immigrants from Indonesia. Get your facts correct before you post. And stop grieving about the past. Which century are you still living in.

You must be one of the pesky foreigners.

We are Chinapore, we are Chinapore
We will stand together, hear the dragon roar

Feel like China to me now. 60 per cent of the population doesn’t understand, much less, speak English.

Hi Zero,

Nice theory; wrong application.

The grandfathers of those who grumble in this blogpost came to a land that was barren, helped the local community (the indigenous Malays) prosper and transformed the landscape of a fishing village into a business centre that reaches to the ends of the earth.

The aliens of today are landing on our shores to grab at the opportunity to share this riches that the grandfathers of those who grumble in this blogpost had so painstakingly helped to build.

Your theory of ‘history repeating itself’ cannot therefore apply.

Hello
In addition to my post earlier, i would like to suggest also why singapore can not be compared with america or europe in terms of migrant issues. Just because we are intellectually mostly english oriented, many singaporeans always like to use caucasian countries to compare ourselves with.

Remember: No where else in the world you will find that Migrant culture will purify the culture instead of contaminate it. Except in Singapore.

In america, if they let in streams of latin people, africa people, the English local language will be contaminated and distorted over time. In Japan if you let in the migrants, the local language japanese will also over time be degraded. Likewise, in France you let in all sorts of people, the french worry that their language will be belittled.

In singapore, really it is unique. If you let in lots of chinese, over time our chinese will be purified and improved instead of degraded. I suspect our standards of Tamil and Malay will also improve, if we let in more of the original native speakers from sri lanka, india and indonesia. I welcome chinese, indians and malays from these lands, no problem at all. We learn from each other. Free competition.

Life is a struggle anyway. You have to strive very hard. It is the law of the jungle, the fittest survive. The weak will be annihilated. The new singapore will be very strong. Life is a struggle.

Majulah Singapura.

Zero

Then China has millions of underpaid doctors. Why not let them all in? Why not hired Indian Doctors like what we hired Bangladesh?

China has plenty of lawyers as well. US lawyers are jobless and why not we open door to them.

Why there is only law society and medical guilde to limit practice here.

We should set up road sweeper society, construction society to limit people in the trade.

Latin American has only trivial differences with anglo saxon. Spainish are able to migrate freely in EU. Why US restrict Lat-AM?

The reason why we dont even find construction worker from Indonesia but further up bangladesh is dirty politics.

If we want to play jungle rule, then everyone play. Elite don just sit there.

Hi Zero,

I think you’ve just described the thinking of our elites; and peasants like the rest of us have much to fear.

Your warning that “…The weak will be annihilated..” is also one that we have to take seriously. There is simply too many weak ones around us and there is no way we should allow those who think themselves strong to run away with the country.

We must stop these thieves before we lose everything, we really do.

Dear New Era
Perhaps you are right, the Orang Asli were the original inhabitants in Singapore. It doesn’t change my argument one iota. The grandfathers of those who grumble in this blogpost, are the foreign talents and they are definitely not the original owners of the land.. so don’t use the word “strangers of OUR own land” It is insensitive.

And also, to another poster, he mentioned Caucasians as owners of the red dot. No no. Raffles got into a treaty with temengoong somehow through East India Company on Her Majesty service, and England got a lot of advantages out of it.

So, the real owners – the original owners – were neither the white man nor the hokkien man from china or samsui woman from kwan atung who came to singapore in the 50’s to escape communist rule and hard life. Those foreign talent, the grandfathers of those who grumble in the blogpost, helped to built the new singapore of the 60’s to-date.

Likewise, people, please think positive. The present wave of FT WILL over time, also help to build the future new singapore. The fittest survive, the best will win, whether you are local of FT. If you are sub-mediocre, sorry. You will be replaced over time, the fittest survive. If you are really very good, you will succeed. Life is a struggle.

Zero

Re Zero :

Bring in doctors. Singaporean is sick of rising medical cost. Our FT policy is not fairplay between elite and plebian. Why not do it all the way.

Down then 1950s, Singapore was still somehow a more pristine land than now. There is no obligation like NS and Land Acquisition.

If fairplay is to be assured, return all the ill-gotton HDB sales to the original poor land owners. They will be millionaire by now.

If fairplay is assured, FT all go NS, and pay market rate for education and health care. Our policy is not even jungle law, it is outright discrimination against Singapore citizen.

As I said, this wave of FT will not ensure fittest survive. It will preserve the odious system of PAP and landlord.

We are all going to sink. Our infra-structure is crumbling. You go Changi beach, our finnest dive site and you see pepertual sign board its too contanminated to swim because of a sewage plant.

Soon with population explosion, east coast will be another cess-pool.

100 years later with this policy we all become Orwell’s “1984″.

i agree with JW. i felt i have wasted two years ns and thirteen years reservist this the kind of treatment i get for being patriotic

“The present wave of FT WILL over time, also help to build the future new singapore. The fittest survive, the best will win, whether you are local of FT. If you are sub-mediocre, sorry.”

You are right boy. So why should we care so much about their rationale (or irrationale) of wanting FTs (even if it is really FTs they are talking about). Just keep fit and ‘fight’ very hard (whether by making noise or do the necessary during election time) for our own survival (yes for our survival right ?) so that we do not have the nagging need (constant refrains on the need) for FTs. perhaps the zero is in your head.

If you are the same Zero as in 38) Zero on October 2nd, 2009 9.03 am
“During the great “diaspora” of the 1950’s, immigrants – foreign talent you can call it – came in great numbers from Fujian, Kwangtung, Hongkong, Ceylon, to Singapore.”

How far back do you want to go. We did go independent in 1965 with a legacy of a certain race being the majority and with a popular assumption back then when “there was a time when people said that Singapore won’t make it, but we did”.

I pity you; the one with the sum of zero. You speak of the influx of foreigners in terms of talent but you forgot to consider that many of them are just plain cheap, untalented and uncouth labourers.

How then are they going to contribute to the future of Singapore in the manner you’ve described, improving our languages and characteristics? You want us to spit like the Chinese from China? You want us to squat all over the hdb heartland in a sarong with our bottoms half exposed? Well, I guess you must have been sitting comfortably in your high rise glass tower to see all these.

You do not even have to courtesy to address the person you are replying to. It tells a whole lot about your type. Worthless in your own self-worth.

Dear Gemami,
First, let me apologise to you and those whom i had forgotten to mention their specific names when making up my post. I find this blogpost mail rather user un-friendly when the posts are so many, and it is difficult to keep track and cut and paste all the users comment. I am not least offended, if someone picks up a thread which i pen but do not attribute my name to it. I think it is a zero issue excuse the pun-ny comment.

Let me tell you how those “plain cheap, untalented and uncouth labourers” of immigrants, will contribute to singapore. Many of the top people in Singapore, their parents were precisely such. They intermarried and produce people who went through the education system and came out to be very useful to society. Gemami maybe it is you too, one of the offspring of the very people you accuse of, no one knows. We must never look down on someone just because he spits on the road. Everyone has his own worth. Singaporeans also have extremely nasty habits,

Just as the less educated immigrant may contribute in this way, the more cultured and refined group of immigrant who don’t spit on the roads, will also contribute in even more significant ways. Do you watch Ch.8? Look at how Guo Liang and Quan Yifeng do their job. Can a local match? Local singaporean – Li Guohuang? He’s getting better everyday. Why? Competition. He mixed around, and he improved so much in his language, and style. I like it. We should emulate him. Instead of grumbling, he use the chance to improve himself. Good smart local Singaporeans, need not fear. Li guohuang is a model to follow. humble and willng to learn. Less grumble, less politicking, more action.

Let competition bring out thebest in singaporeans. Do not shun it and clamour for Special protection. Remember it was healthy competition by the very foreign immigrants who were the grandfathers of those who grumble onthis blogpost, who made singapoe what it is today.

Be real, we don’t have the resources, what can people who cannot even speak its own dna language properly, and worst still feel ashamed of it (many chinese singaporeans somehow are shameful of things chinese. they start with Singlish to their babies. It is ridiculous, horrendous, repulsive) We are sick to the core and need help to rebuild. Let the fittest survive, let singapore be rebuild by FT, be purified by Ft, just as it was build by FT 50 years ago. no problem.

No chinese singaporoean should ever say “strangers in our own land” It is orang asli who own the land, as someone rightly said. It does not even belong to angmo’s nor PAP. Be more sensitive.
We are by and large offspring of foreign talent, never forget that.

Maju-lah Singapura.
Zero

@38) Zero on October 2nd, 2009 9.03 am

“….It is the law of the jungle, survival of the fittest. Those who can, go ahead migrate out. Those who can’t and hve to remain in singapore, well, either die off slowly or else compete successfully in harmony with the new wave….”

So, 40+ years of self-rule and we have succeeded in building S’pore into a jungle? Yea, no wonder the Pledge is just an aspiration, the reality is that our leaders had planned to turn this land into a jungle. Let’s see, the reality Pledge should be something like: “We the animals of this jungle, pledge ourselves to survival of the fittest, regardless of cow, dog, wolf, swine…..” Fortunately, they only took the jungle as the role model, and not Saddam Hussein.

If those that can migrate out should do so, then why are our highly-paid meritocratic ministers still around? They should F*** off, I’m sure there are many countries in need of their talents. Can save S’pore many million$ each year you know?

@48) gemami on October 2nd, 2009 1.04 pm

Every dictatorship regime commits genocide. The Nazis had their pure Arykan idealogy. We tried with the graduate mother stuff — remember they weren’t satisfied with each family having 2 kids but those kids should also be from graduate parents? Now, who knows the plan? Maybe an elite group lording over monkeys. Of course whether local or foreign monkeys, it doesn’t matter, as long as they are happy with peanuts. Monkeys fighting monkeys over peanuts, the elites must be laughing themselves silly.

49) Zero on October 2nd, 2009 1.10 pm

If our national pledge was to create a cowboy town, then I think most of us would not have any issue with your take on survival of the fittest. Unfortunately, we are a nation and not some outpost where the strongest or baddest survive.

And any nation in the world with a democratically elected government would have to look after its own people and their interest first or risk being booted out.

And so we have to ask if the interests of our own people have been compromised through the policies implemented by those in charge?

I anticipate that for many of us, it may be impossible for those in white to give a convincing answer to that question.

Re Oh/Zero

You are really a liar. The new immigrant will not contribute to our fertility. CIA factbook put total Singapore fertility (1.08), that must have included the FT, because PAP put singaporean fertility at 1.2++.

And regarding we cannot produce Chinese presenter, the reason is because LKY killed Nantah (the best Chinese Uni of south east asia). There is a Jewish term call Chutzpah (shameless), kill your parent then plead for mercy because you are ophan.

I am definitely “for” FT if we can get Einstein, Bill Gate…etc that bring well being to the society.

But currently the policy is to preserve the odious PAP, and landlord and its implementation is discriminationary to Singaporean.

Hi Zero,

you mention survival of the fittest = law of the jungle…well fine…correcto up to a point…or a number of salient points…

i take it you mean competition at all levels of society/economic/governance….and justification based on performance/efficiency/effectiveness….

So local citizens of singapore if cannot perform…well that is too bad…not good enough so replace with a foreigner/hungry immigrant?

Correct right…

will this also include foreign immigrants to replace our government / super expensive overly repetitive that we are the best local officials too?

Or it means the government has the right to ensure this will not happen to them…

as it is okay to replace the citizens who were originally here first in singapore who “elected” this government every 4/5 years for the past 44 years…

It is the citizens of singapore that made singapore…

it seems the government has start to forget the past contributions of its citizens…

So back to law of the jungle…..i maybe just one rat amongst many rats in the jungle but a multitude of us is more then enough to even handle a glutton greedy hyena or a bunch of vultures and even a lion that kill not for food but for the sake of accumulating enough kills…

Thus the citizens of singapore too can apply this law of the jungle….we will apply it alrite to our supposely “elected” government who has forgotten its citizens….

we will…rest assure of that : )

hello strumtruppen et al,

Please do not get me wrong. I HATE THE CURRENT MEN IN WHITE.
My posting has got nothing to do to glorify the PAP. It just so happens that in this particular area my thoughts are slightly aligned with theirs, but in no way does it mean I am beholden to them and I support them in elections.

Like you, I hate the multimillion salaries of the blood sucking idiots who are the cause of the inflationary woes of this country. Many of them are not up to standard but draw multimillions and still greedy. They are worshippers of money, they personally have no idea what to do with so much money, they have no culture, no soul. They deserve your every whiplash in various aspects of governance – except possible this particular topic which we are focussing on.

what I am commenting has nothing to do with politics. I am a social scientist of sorts, not a politician.

Zero

“Let competition bring out thebest in singaporeans. Do not shun it and clamour for Special protection.”

Do you also include those at the top, if you know what I mean. Please please please, enough of this bull. If there are gaps, fill the gaps first. Then we can talk sense. Else, a lot of people (excepting you and your kakis) will just roll their eyes and have that kind of suppressed smirk.

“Look at how Guo Liang and Quan Yifeng do their job. Can a local match? Local singaporean – Li Guohuang? He’s getting better everyday. Why? Competition.”

Then, why not have more free private media (not internet lah) in the form of radio and TV, just like Taiwan where Quan Yifeng came from. Don’t you think this is competition at its very best. As for Guo Liang, I guess that he is from Shanghai which is even more open than here.

“Be real, we don’t have the resources, what can people who cannot even speak its own dna language properly, and worst still feel ashamed of it (many chinese singaporeans somehow are shameful of things chinese. they start with Singlish to their babies. It is ridiculous, horrendous, repulsive)”

this is the price to pay for being in a “rojak” country where English is the first language for communication when we are not native english speakers. why should we be ashamed with this (singlish) and what is so ridiculous, horrendous, repulsive about this. we adjust to one another as singaporeans and even foreigners adjust to our “la” and “hah”.

My dear “where is the zero”,
Let us be very objective.

You suggest kick out PAP, replace with FT. Ok why not? Go ahead, i am with you. I think they suck too much money from the economy. It is ridiculous their salary is higher than Obama many times, completely outrageous.
For the purpose of this post, let us not get emotional with the men in white for a hundred stupid things they are doing.

You suggested more free private media, more competition, Ok why not? Go ahead, I am with you. For the purpose of this post, let us not digress.

As per the example, of Quan Yifeng, Guoliang and Li Guohuang, let me repeat, i truly respect our Ah Beng Mr. Li Guohuang. He is really true blue singaporean made good. He bucked up his language and compereing skills, he is humble, he does a good job, he does not lament on his bad past fortune but he looks ahead and positively, always. Every singaproean should emulate Li Guohuang the comedian, how he tackles unjustness, how he handles hardships. His Mentor, Liang Zi Qiang, I also respect greatly. Laugh at life. Don’t complain, do your best and seize all opportunities instead of hide in a shell to protect yourself from competition These two – they have character – they are worthy of emulation. The fittest will always survive., somehow It is the sub mediocre that clamour for protection. To some extent, out of charity perhaps, I agree that the government should provide some protection, but it is not in the total interest of the country if carried to the extreme. .

As for singlish, and your comments, i wish that singlish is as simple as putting a suffix lah to a grammatically correct sentence, lah. It wouldn’t be a problem, lah. The real problem is grammatical mistaken constructs borrowed from Chinese, lah. Wrecklessly translated, given to baby, who has no idea what is right and what is wrong., lah. You and i know right and wrong, not the poor baby. lah. He will grow up without a proper cultural ballast and internal pride of any culture, lah. We have to purify and cleanse our souls to reform our society first, lah. Be humble and follow Li Guo Huang, lah.

Zero, lah
Maju, lah
Singapura

“Let competition bring out thebest in singaporeans. Do not shun it and clamour for Special protection.”

- Why bring in ku ching ku rak to compete?

- Without minium wage, how do you know that employers are going for the best without trading off salaries?

- Is there no competition among Singaporeans themselves?

- Is the standard of education and everythng else that bad in Spore?

- Why not let competition in BUSINESSES bring out the best in Singaporeans and EVERYTHING Singapore? Why only interested in bringing out the best in workers, why not the best in standards?

To bring out the best, supply of service providers & products have to exceed demand. Competition for best products & services will bring up standards.

So let the PR bit the cherry or maybe cherries.

And the true blue Singapore bit the bullet or maybe bullets.

Gandhi said that “the measure of a civilization is how it treats its weakest members.”

Muhammad Nur, please note that Singaporeans are decent people and we take care of our weakest members.

You are probably one of those pesky foreigners.

We have no time for people like you.

Muhammad, are you male or female. It seems Nur is for ladies while Noh is for males. Which are you??? Are you a foreigner not aware of this???

dear where is the zero,

I agree with you the first two para’s, it’’s ok to kick out the men in white on account of other atrocities they do. It’s ok to have free private media, definitely yes. I am not a govt supporter, i am just commenting from the point of view of social scientist in an objective manner, the specific, positive contributions that immigrants can do to singapore as they have done in times past. I am not indebted or beholden to men in white that i have to support them – in fact i disagree with them on too many other issues.

That is why i think it is wrong for anyone to use the terms “strangers in our own land” because the land never did belong to chinese singaporeans. And the grandfathers of those who grumble in this blog post,- are probably precisely what they are accusing the present wave of immigrants to be.

As for singlish, i wish it is as simple as adding a lah to otherwise grammatical correct sentences lah. Singlish is more than that. It constructs sentences based on chinese sentence structure. Verbs and nounts are swopped in position sometimes, many many other incorrect constructs, it is obvious. Fact is, parents baby talk in completely broken grammar translated from chinese sentence constructs. Parents hear wrong constructs of children, and leave it uncorrected. It makes my hair stand. An adult who knows grammar and some chinese can understand why the constructs are wrong, not the baby kid. We are condemning a baby to a cultural poison of not being able to speak in a proper way from start, if we had used incorrect grammar structure. If we have to learn something DO IT WELL and do not vindicate our errors and omissions – that is the biggest problem with Singlish proponents. Adults can laugh over it, but we are poisoning the little innocent ones. Education must start from early age, if parents do not make it a point to use correct sentence constructs to babies, it is a total disaster when they grow up. Englishmen will think poorly of such poor speakers, The greater Chinese community will likewise be repelled by children who could not speak chinese,because paretns already given up starting with chinese on their kids. So our kids are not yellow not white, meaningless digits.

The influx of foreign mainland immigrants will improve chinese singaporeans, speech habits in the long term. I said many times, singapore is unique. The influx of foreigners will purify us instead of corrupt our languages. We are not France, UK, Japan or USA where they are already from the start masters of their mother tongues and immigrants will dilute the incumbent culture instead of enhance it. very unique.

Zero

[...] never encountered a people who’ve done so much to undo themselves [Thanks Jenel] – TOC: New citizens outstripping net increase of existing citizens? – Feed Me To The Fish: Ungrateful Platoon Commander, Insensitive Leeder – kay poh chee: Any [...]

Re zero:

I sense you are a puritan in language purity. Unfortunately, you are self-contradicting.

English, the language you use for posting is bastard beyond your imagination. It is the intercourse between Angles, Saxony, Norman, Latin, French and Celts. If you want preech pure language, you might as well learn all the 6 English predesesor.

No one except PAP has problem with Singlish. Creole is a feature when a language spread far from its center of orgin. In Texas USA and southern califonia, the English is highly hybrid with Spanish.

The Mexican spanish is highly different from standard espanol.

Moroco, Egyptians, levantine, Gulf, Irai arabic are fairly extend not mutually intelligbible.

But only formal occasions, all creole speaker speaks and write on standard codification of the language that is mutually intelligble. Diglossia will never be eliminated. Any attempts to do so is highly unnaturally which cause more damage than benefits.

Our main problem with Chinese is not in diglosia but PAP’s language policy. She has close down Nantah, and over the years, emasculate the Chinese education. (don believe just compare chinese textbook of, HK, Taiwan, Singapore now and Singapore in the past)

And not every mainland Chinese speaker can speak fluenct Chinese especially many of the lower educated we brought in. Chinese has at least 6 major branch of dialect each mutually unintelligible with one another.

All of the Chinese speaker carried a strong mixture of creole in conversation. It is certainly differently from the so -call standard mandarin. Unless we import native from Bejing, creaole will be kicking and flourishing.

You do not have a view of what the world is going on. Please read more.

You have not really answer to any of my posting against you.

I’m a true blue Singaporean living at the west coast. I anticipated many negative reactions to my comment. The truth hurts but you don’t seem to get it. We are being replaced and new Singaporeans will emerge. The children of foreigners born here are as Singaporean as you and me. History always repeat itself doesn’t it. The truth hurts, I know.

Foreigners out> where did you get the idea Nur is for female? Is it because most female borrow that name? There is no difference in meaning between Nur, Noh and Nor since all of them derived from the same name of Prophet Noh (Noah). It is only that over time, people tend to change the spelling but the reference is still the same.

I still feel it is despicable to refer me as a foreigner for saying the obvious facts. The chinese, malay and indian singaporean are not replacing themselves. Without foreigners, we will simply vanish from Singapura within a century. Immigration is a natural phenomenon, as more migrants come to Singapore, there are as also many Singaporeans living and working overseas. I have that intense desire to live overseas and might be going within 3yrs.

We need a real debate regarding this emotionally fiery issue. Which sectors/jobs are we in shortage now? Who are these foreigners living here? Are they loyal to Singapore or to their country of birth? How many is too many?

My own perception is that Singapore is too overcrowded and don’t need to sustain a 200 billion dolar economy for a native population of 3million. It is only in the self interest of a certain group of people whereby the government has to take a drastic measure to shove up their numbers to maintain that “balance”. Read between this line and you will know what i mean.

My Last Post Here : SINGAPOREAN IS NEVER XENOPHOBIC

My reserveation against FT is

1 We dont mind bring in Bill Gate, Einstein or Michael Jackson, but currently we are bring in even the uneducated.

2 Our infra structure is crumbling. Go Changi beach you find a perpetual no swimming sign due to contanmination. The population surge has strained our sea to dilute sewage.

3 No fair play between local and foreigner

4 Its a measure to preserve interest of PAP and landlords

5 Foreigner are less fertile than local. Eventually it will aggravate more so the FT policies.

6 Other countries like France has reverse their low fertility by means of pro-natal policies. PAP can duck to pay in such measure because of its FT policy.

Dear Muhamed Nur
We are completely syncrhonised. My point is same as yours. The new singaporean will be the FT of today. Your are spot on. I said many times, singapore will reborn itself with the new make of immigrants in exactly the same way in the 1950’s the immigrants from china changed the society.

Dear Vohayek
Let me clarify again about Singlish. If singlish is just about adding a lah or a meh to an otherwise correct sentence, there is no problem. The real problem is grammatical constructs are incorrect. I just went to the supermarket and a child asked the mother “here got sell xxx or not?”. The mother took it as if nothing is wrong, does not make an attempt to correct the grammar. I don’t know where to hide my face if an englishman is next to me. I am ashamed my fellow singaporeans don’t bat an eyelid towards doing “the right thing” which is, at least, give baby a chance to get things correct. The biggest problem with singlish is not the Lahs and the mehs. The biggest problem is the glorification of incorrectness. We make a mess of learning english because we translate direct from chinese. But the child – he has not even a chinese base – he just thinks “here got sell or not?” is ok. He will be the laughing stock if he goes to england to study if he speaks like that lah. Do not politicise the issue. I hate PAP. But when they say speak good english, why do you complain. Let us be objective. Singlish as it is broken is unacceptable, shameful vindication of something incorrect. Language is like music. Although no one can play like Mozart, we have to aspire to do so, if we can. Anyone who keeps on making mistakes playing Nietchmusik (Mozart famous piece) will be immediately be seen by those who know music, to be faulted, and the sound generated is nothing but nuisance and noise. We have to try to do our best to learn good English, good Tamil, good Malay, good Mandarin, good Hokkien, et. al.

Concerning closing of nantah by PAP, yes i think it was not a good thing. The only way to correct this mistake – is to import the mainland chinese here to boost up, purify our language. Mandarin when spoken well, is really a beautiful melodic language. I hear the girls from Beijing speaking it and I am completely enchanted – just like some are enchanted by French, also another melodic language. And i hear a Singaporean speak mandarin, i want to faint. But fear not in 100 years time the new breed of Super singaporeans will take over and Singapore will be a great nature of super language experts and culture.

Now regarding your post 59.

You don’t think the new immigrants will intermarry and produce kids? why? You know there are numerous average-income chinese coffee assistant ladies, salesgirls, etc all over singapore. Why wouldn;t a young singapore man be attracted to these and marry and start family? Why not? These girls many of them are very eligible. And they will do wonders to help bring up baby with more culture than the average Ah Lian in Singapore who speaks broken singlish knows how to do. They are very attractive assets. If i have a son i will tell him, go for it..

Lastly, about Li GuoHuang. you misunderstood me completely. I said that Li is now a very competent compere,because he humbled himself and learned a lot, no doubt interacting with the native speakers etc. I said that singaporeans should emulate Li because he does not just throw bricks at ill fortune, complain about foreign MCs compete with him, but instead he move with the tide, he learn and now his mandarin is getting better, so is his MC skills. Therefore, my advice is for local chinese singporeans to get to know this native speakers, learn from them purify yourself more instead of throwing bricks at them just because of political reasons. We need to reason beyond politics. I know, i dont like PAP,but we have to get out of the mindset and understand that the immigrants are doing very good thing to social structure in terms of culture.
Zero

If singapore really have FTs who are the levels of Bill Gates , Soros, Clinton and nobel laurettes etc only, then i would have confidence that there will be a LOT of Jobs created as MNCs would come here to employ these talents who though need to be paid millions or billions would generate high returns for them maciam like 1 such real Talent could generate equivalent f 1000000 common skilled so-called talents.

There are 2 things to Differentiate:
1. The Need for Talent
vs
2. The Need for the Right kinds of talents
vs
3. The Need for hiring How Many Foreign Talents and not just a more sweeping statement of the need for talent = hire as many as possible.

I wonder can singaproeans differentiate?

So many posters here claim to be “Singaporean” and yet use terms like “Sinkapore”, “Sillypore”, etc.. Way to show love for your country, people! Remember, PAP is not Singapore, and Singapore is not PAP. Your anger at the PAP may be justified but by slighting the name of our country you’re proving once and for all that PAP = Singapore.

As for all this hoopla about foreign talent, some of the comments people make almost makes me think that the PAP are the good guys, while the average Singaporean is a xenophobic, angry, whining layabout! I know this is not the case but really, if you glance at Sammyboy’s unmoderated fora, the hatred for people from other countries and races is scary, and it is not a fringe population either. Are people aware how unnerving those comments get for people who come here with a desire to set up home and become new citizens or even those Singaporeans from the minority races? Who do you think they will vote for in every election because of the hatred? The MIW of course!

Hi Zero,

thanks for the clarification.

I too agree with your view point that we should allow foreigners who can contribute to singapore in.

The current policy by the gov’t to grab everybody they can grab at the expense of local citizens is ridiculious….

paying “foreign talent” students from china/india/etc education at the expense of our local kids….or giving out PRs like water…..allowing PRs with sibling to buy HDB flats but NOT over 35 years old….etc etc…

I believe PAP no longer work for the common local citizens anymore…and the gov’t is no longer a gov’t but a bunch of technocrats, over-studious scholars and etc….the gov’t has became a board of directors and upper management where the bottom-lines and theirs positions comes first always….to the detriment to Singapore and its citizens.

It is so sad.

“You suggested more free private media, more competition, Ok why not? Go ahead, I am with you. For the purpose of this post, let us not digress.”

you did mention Quan Yifeng, Guoliang and Li Guohuang and about competition. my follow up on having more freer media just came out naturally (too tempting an example for anyone to have missed it). in our dear country, it is not difficult to find many other examples. call it digression if it suits you but I find it appropriate to zero in onto a bigger problem rather than picking (blaming) on lesser mortals who can only make noise and complaints. What else can most of us do, protest and then get “whacked” ?? I am a law-abiding citizen (sarcasm intended).

“Laugh at life. Don’t complain, do your best and seize all opportunities instead of hide in a shell to protect yourself from competition These two – they have character – they are worthy of emulation. The fittest will always survive., somehow It is the sub mediocre that clamour for protection”

“To some extent, out of charity perhaps, I agree that the government should provide some protection, but it is not in the total interest of the country if carried to the extreme. .”

Thank you for telling me. carried to the extreme ? mind you, this is singapore. I hope you are not getting the order of “blame” mixed up.

“As for singlish, i wish it is as simple as adding a lah to otherwise grammatical correct sentences lah. Singlish is more than that. It constructs sentences based on chinese sentence structure. Verbs and nounts are swopped in position sometimes, many many other incorrect constructs, it is obvious. Fact is, parents baby talk in completely broken grammar translated from chinese sentence constructs. Parents hear wrong constructs of children, and leave it uncorrected. It makes my hair stand.”

spoken language evolves due to many factors (there will be no end to hair splitting on details). this site http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dialects_of_the_English_language on english alone may awaken you a little bit.

fact is some parents may not be as good as you and at least they are not shameful to speak out in a language as best as they can. else would’nt it be easier for them to just communicate in their own dialects.

“If we have to learn something DO IT WELL and do not vindicate our errors and omissions – that is the biggest problem with Singlish proponents.”

you and me do not make the rules. english spoken here (singlish) will keep on evolving in its own way and will much influenced by the net collective mix of all the people here (even more so with so many different people coming from many different countries and having different level of english language proficiency – let alone their own native languages – among the many different age groups) – very much as someone may like to control.

the invisible hand of some unforeseen & unplanned force will always throw you with surprises and it tends to be swept under the carpet lest it bares for all to see the failure of some grand planning. Did we not have english as our 1st language and speak mandarin campaign.

“The influx of foreign mainland immigrants will improve chinese singaporeans, speech habits in the long term.”

For any matter, the different cultures (not just because we may have the same skin color) may prevent the necessary & critical direct integration (genuine & not those announced loudly in the media just for the sake of visibility that something is being done) for the so-called good speech habits to be imparted.

Many parents are talking about going to a greener land to call home for the sake of their children’s better future. Unless their children are prepare to work long hours and get paid like a foreigners. My suggestion to them is why must we as parents go away from our mother land for the sake of our childrens’ future, why not we vote out the bunch of greedy million $$ minister instead. Yes, make use of of rights to vote, vote out the bunch of greedy million $$$ minister. Fear no more, stay put in our mother land, vote out the greedy million $$$ minister. PAP we don’t like and need you anymore, get lost PAP, get lost for the sake of our childrens’ future.

New (instant) citizens get instant benefits, e.g. baby bonus, GST credit etc etc etc just like local born citizens. We suckers have toiled for years paid our taxes, done NS, or at least our children have done NS or will be doing NS, yet we get the same benefits as new citizens who may not have paid any taxes at all. Maybe only the highly qualified professionals have paid some taxes. I wonder what sort of immigration is this. Indeed, soon local born Sporeans will be the minority. The majority will be the PRs and new citizens. Sporeans should wake up now and start thinking what will happen to us and our children and future generations if the floodgate remains open forever. There must be some sort of a quota system to stamp the free flow of intakes. The floodgates cannot be opened forever.

Scrap N.S and reservist training, there would be less resentment against foreigners and there will be a more level playing field. Employers find reservist call ups burdensome and this puts singapore male citizens at a disadvantage! They prefer P.Rs and foreigners. Why should singapore male citizens sacrifice 2 years of their lives before getting real jobs when anybody can just walk, drive or fly in and get one. Will LHL ever address this question? Patriotism is a 2 way street. The government should not expect citizens to just give and give and get peanuts in return!

It seems as if PAP is bringing in many foreigners to our ‘Noah’s Ark’ which is already cramped enough and granting them citizenship or even PR in a period

It seems as if PAP is bringing in many foreigners to our ‘Noah’s Ark’ which is already cramped enough and granting them citizenship or even PR in a period of less than 10 yrs (used to be the SOP). As a first generation of Singaporean (my parents are from M’sia), who have been born and bred and indoctrinated into Singapore life, I find it disturbing. I wonder why are we giving space to ingrates, especially those people from China. They are rude, uncouth and they like to shout at our counter staff as though they are the owners of Singapore. They always claim Singaporeans ‘bully’ them and ‘take advantage’ of them. So damn untrue. We Singaporeans are the bochap type of people who may be uncomfortable with much foreign presence but we have the dignity to keep our feelings to ourself. You think that with these unreasonable people, Singapore govt may out them in no time but NO, we have to keep them and bow down to them cause China is a rising power and so if they cr*p on us, we have to swallow it.

To quote roughly what the Australian PM Kevin Rudd said: “If you don’t like the country, LEAVE. Nobody’s forcing you to stay and you can go whenever you want. Just don’t change whatever culture or lifestyle that is already embedded in Australia.”

This is what our govt should do, but did they do it, NO! They only seem to quiver to the presence of China people which i fail to understand. Why is our MM who has been praised as fearless in challenging British authority and subsequently, communist threats, do nothing in the presence of increasing China population. Has he become from a warrior from defeating a communist tiger to become a mouse?

Cont’d with my grouse with increasing number of foreigners, our unis. Our local unis seems to reject locals but bring in more foreigners. Even a uni student commented when he entered the lecture hall, he seems to see many foreigners in the LT. Why is it that Singapore men have to waste two yrs of their life serving NS and defending the nation from threats, only to come back to civilian life and find out that his place in uni is not even secure and is probably taken up by a foreigner who don’t serve NS/ don’t pay IRAS any cent? Is this justice to the blood, toil and sweat offered by our brave NS men?

And lastly, why are maids always allowed to escape death penalty whenever they commit a murder? While our Singaporean employers are always fined/jailed for the slightest mishap to our maids? This is nothing more than PAP bending their backs to please our foreign friends cause in PAP’s eyes, Foreigner first, locals second. Is this what you have been working for?

Before you blast my parents being one of those foreigners, I shall just drop a few facts. My parents came in the 1970s, when the international world taught Singapore got no hope, and worked hard to provide decent housings for me. They pay taxes, appreciates the Singapore lifestyle and is already Singaporeanized. Least, they never even complained once.

I’m not surprised if Singapore will join China as the next province if they don’t stem the flow.

our government sucks, i no longer even watch the national day parade, its time to vote pap out of office. we cant drive the PRs & FTs away, but we can drive some of the MPs out of their seats

Whatever is it . Key is DARE TO CHANGE AND GO FOR THE CHANGE ‘” . vOte them out totally and tet the new selected govt , if any and see what their policies are and how they tackle the problems (micro and macro economics issues).

Afterall PAP style is external factors and we cannot do much if the economy not doing well . But getting the World highet paid. Make no difference to us who is governing at the end of the day.

Reality issue – Many graduate , under 40’s no jobs are blue Singaporean. Asking them what the givernment is doing or what they can do . Key is not this grioup of people are relying on the govt. Key is their task to be able to foresee, anticipate and make changes to keep the employment market competitive , relevant to the new entrance as well as for existing employees.

Even with 4.99 million population . Key has it help the local economy and revitalise it . In what ways ???? Or it cost more hardship with this growing FT, PR that is taking away the local jobs. All claimed are talent ??? .

Ou education system is the best in the World . Yet we are not able to create the World Class Talent . Highly questionable. With more students coming in the educational hub is like a commercial hub to the government. Worse is yet to come and more will be staying to take Blue Singaporean rice bowl and university education.

Local without jobs are virtually not able to afford the high education cost. This is a visious circle that wa happening during the 70’s and 80’s . Local are denied a University Education with the shutting of Nayang University and able blue Singapore talent ( rich go abroad), average stay and poor stuck without a unversity education. Now got wings cannot fly due to lack of the university education.

Vote them out ..and have a better life . Move ahead and move along to a New World.

DARE TO CHANGE AND GO FOR THE CHANGE .

Civil servants are not allowed to hold two jobs. But PAP Ministers , MP are aloowed to hold many corporate appointments (getting director’s fee) and yet running their own business. Is this the talent or the time evotion to the community. And the world highet paid too. anything that benefits them is acceptable.

Legalise Earning = Free Corruption and above all .

Illegalise Earning = Corruption ? ? or Illegal Earnings or Against the Rules of Law.

Woner is our exiting PAP system same as those of Japan . In short it pass on from one generation of Minister to their related .

Anyonce could name or reply the existing MP, Miniters relations in the current PAP government.

Heard this is the tree ———– LKY , GCT, Tony Tan, Yeo Ning Hong (Ex minister /PSA Chairman), Now Defence Minister Mr Teo are all realted . Just wondering how many of their related are sitting at the GIC and related bodies.

Why the Chairman of the new civil aviation institute are appointed. In short everyone need to apply for a post of job but many dont need to for special VIP.

There go for Temasik too. More to name if you know ????? Highly questionable style of management .

Employer ask do you have experience and skills . What skills do you need ????

Why wait? show them our frustration!

show them our frustration!

govt. is not the people, they will never know why birth rate so low. and by the way, how do we know the real reason for this high influx of foreigners. low birth rate could just be an excuse

They are trying to control the vote so that they always win.
It might back fire now bcos of Internet. People in this country must know their dirty tricks. If not, we will all be history.
I c 2 many jobless Singaporean now, yet the immigrants are the one that get employed.
This is really sad.

At the point when we’re having one of our worst economy crisis, our jobs loses are in its worst shape but the PRs and new citizen had increased even at a faster rate.

Plainly, it shows the government has no concern for the common Singaporean.

We need a change of government…. It’s now or never!

To George (post #1)

The question is not what is the Govt going to do about it. The question should be : What are YOU going to do about it ?

guys

i read lots of blogs and a lot of us are asking what is the govt going to do about the situation where locals are losing jobs and foreigners are coming in to replace them.

The reality is — the govt is NOT going to do anything. they are the cause of the problem. YOU have to do something about it yourself

Kill. the immigrants and those who bring them in. Is becoming pest to our nation.

I read that PAP wanted to control votes. Hence increase immigrants will get them more votes. U know better pay than what they have in China. Yeah. Dirty tricks.
Is time to kill someone.