i think that those who know about the perceived ‘loophole’ would not be abusing their wives right?

Why is law not amended given there are more lawyers ( as reported) now in singapore?

What is holding back?

Should get your local MP to move to abolish this law in Parliament. Then you can hear the government’s response. As useful as a petition may be in expressing the will of the people, you will ultimately have to deal with the legislature that wields the real power.

I must salute you all for the time and continuing effort that you all had put in .
Do not be discourage if the target of 10,000 signatures are not met.There are many ways to minimise marital rape,even if it is not criminalised.
You can set up a team to:-
1)Provide pre-marriage declaration services…and…let the would be bride knows that satisfying her husband’s need and producing babies is part of her duty and to declare to the husband before marriage if she has got no intention to produce babies or already know that she has no interest in sex.
2)Let the would be groom knows that some women after marriage may not have interest in sex due to physical or mental problem and force should not be use on the wife if such unfortunate case do happen but tell the bride that she should be understanding and close one eye if she is unable to meet the husband’s demand,and allow him to visit places of doubtful repute or even have a mistress.
3)Petition to the garmen to legally allow the husband to marry more than one wife,if the first wife fail to meet the husband’s demand or refuse sex without a good excuse and do not mind the husband getting someone to cover her duty…..
This petition will surely carry more signatures and thus marital rape can be reduced.

Come on 3000 aint that bad. Keep at it, you’ll reach the target. Think you should get religious groups to sign. Get someone in the church or temple to arrange for you to come and speak for a short while and then pass the petition around. Confirm fast.

The poor response shows that if every couple supports the campaign to make marital rape into law, the Police would be kept very busy throughout the year and have no time to keep Singapore safe and secure from crimes and terrorism except to investigate what thousands of couple do every night on bed, to assess whether excessive force was used on the partner. If excessive force was indeed used and tantamount to marital rape, the Police may take months to investigate. In the meantime, the couple reconciles and settles another round of pleasure on bed to resolve the dispute and do not want to pursue further. All the Police efforts go down the drain. I would suggest the researchers go down to the High and Family Courts and understand the family and domestic problems thoroughly first before embarking on this campaign.

Where is the Thio family when you need them? Right now what you need is for someone like one of the learned professors to find a passage from the Bible where it says that a man can actually force himself onto his wife or perhaps drug her and get his rocks off. Then they’ll argue that doing this is part of our traditional values and it would be offensive to suggest otherwise. Then, guess what, you’ll get the newly installed team at AWARE getting up in arms and before you know it, the politicians will have to do something.

Seriously, this is a joke, right. I mean here we are in Singapore, where people are supposed to be educated and pragmatic. Surely most of us can see that our society is not acting that way when it comes to the idea of sex. We are a nation that criminalises consensual acts (377a) and legalises coercion.

In the previous posting on the subject, a few clowns suggested that it’s not rape because when the wife agreed to have sex whenever the husband so chooses because she agreed so when she married him – the solution – use KY jelly. The level of ignorance displayed is almost funny but then again it’s less so when you think that this is Singapore, a place where people are supposed to be educated.

OK, let’s get one thing clear here. Rape is about the violence and not about the sex. It’s not about a woman who wants it harder and rough and then changing her mind the next day. It’s about a woman being forced to do something she does not want by violent means – either she’s threatened by gun or knife or she is beaten up or drugged. I think we can all agree that all of these things are wrong and criminal.

These are precisely the things that end up in the high and family courts. I would suggest that anyone who thinks this law is about a man’s right to get laid should look at getting laid – that way they’ll know the difference between sex and rape.

On the other hand, if such a law exists, what if an evil wife threatens his husband every other day of maritial rape, since this is impossible to prove?

A marriage certificate is not an approval for men to commit marital rapes.

Why not just abolish marriage, since it is such an oppressive institution? Then we wont have this problem no?

Petitioners are still in denial. The lack of signature is not because of lack of publicity or drive but because most people know this petition is silly and nonsensical.

Why are there more people supporting gay rights is because it is a fundamental issue of basic human rights. Gays should not be criminalised for what they do in the privacy of their own home.

It is ironic that we talk about petitioning to decriminalise something done in the privacy of our own homes (377A) and then turn around to try to criminalise an activity that is also done at the privacy of our own home.

The petitioners insult the people, especially women, by assuming they cannot take care of themselves when they have the full weight of the law behind them.

It is better they direct their energies to more worthy cause, like establishing a genuine two-party system in Singapore where our citizens are not whipped like slaves and foreigners entering en mass diluting our national spirit.

The house is burning and they are worrying about a bad hair day?

Get your priorities right.

I disagree with btan’s comment and would like to say that it’s clear to me that the petition has not received as many signatures purely because of a lack of publicity and activists working the ground.

If you go block to block, house to house and talk to housewives about this petition I’m sure thousands will sign. I’m sure that even my mother who hasn’t signed a petition her whole life will sign it.

To 12) Temasek Review does a better job on October 21st, 2009 1.29 pm

How can we ignore such important issues? Perhaps you’d feel more if your own mother or friend was raped by her husband and could do nothing about it.

In fact, you show incredible lack of foresight by asking TOC not to focus on these issues. It is only when we learn to care for the plight of others will we be able to find the empathy and sensitivity to do what’s right for the country.

We want to improve the standard of life in SG because we care about Singaporeans right? Isn’t this cause caring for our women?

Even aside from this cause, you say that no one cares about the chees and what they believe in but if you’ve been following their website it proves that they’ve only been growing and progressing in numbers, support and output.

Perhaps you’re just frustrated about your own situation I can understand. But being selfish and doing what “believes” to be the “best for society” based on their own assumptions is exactly what LKY does.

I disagree with this petition. I also disagree with the term ‘marital rape’. Immunity given to husbands in ‘marital rapes’ doesn’t means all husbands will abuse their wives and therefore abolish this law. It should be left privately to the couples themselves. Government intervention will make marriage a joke instead of a commitment between prospective couples.

@ Temasek review does a better job

When you talk about focusing on issues that Singaporeans really care about, you mean what you really care about right?
There is a broad spectrum of issues that are of interest to Singaporeans, and that affect this country’s development. Even if you may not care about the chees, marital rape or gay rights(and it is your right to), there are people who do. It’s a very selfish, self-important view to take, that only what is important to you should be important to the rest of society. You have free choice to read what you like, and if you find that your interests are not being addressed adequately, do us all a favour go and start your own investigative journalism.

I agree with Gp that the petition would probably get a better response with more publicity in the ways he/she’s described. I have signed the petition. At the end of the day however, given that we are trying to be democratic, we’ll have to respect that everyone is entitled to their views on the matter. We may not like the outcome, but that is how democracy works.

Maybe they can work with AWARE and tap into their existing membership base to sign their petition.

I think marital rape is something that needs more debate and education to change society’s view and affect legal change. I think it’s great that more people are becoming more sensitive to issues and are not afraid to speak up. We are becoming a more caring society.

Well, majority are unfortunately straight and therefore this issue, if allowed to go through is likely to affect them. Compare this with 377A which only goes to serve the gay (mostly) interest.

Need I say more?

I smell a rat!

I would like to ask if the people behind this petition are pro-LGBT or LGBT activists who are seeking revenge at the straight community for failing to ‘tolerate’ them.

What is their motive? Maybe more digging up is needed.

I think marital rape is a completely legitimate issue to bring up, and personally the act on its own is deplorable and inexcusable. However there definitely is alot of grey area surrounding whether or not it should be made a legal issue. Maybe the TOC can do an investigative piece that explores why people have their concerns about the legality of the issue. I’m sure there are rational counter-arguments.

many things are wrong…including marital rape…but i feel that there is no need to over emphasis the issue of ‘marital rape’. why? cos, there is sufficient law to protect the wife/women in singapore! and ‘marital rape’ can simply be classified as abusive towards the wife. and if the wife is to report the case to police/court, the court will surely issue order to prevent the husband to get close to her…..what i mean is that the existing law does provide channels to protect wife being ‘marital rape’ by their husband!

also, if marital rape is wrong (A NON-CONSENT sex with husband), does it mean that a consent sex to someone not her husband is ok? somehow this campaign is very narrow minded and give people the impression that as a wife, she is treating every man as equal…..including her husband!

Hi everyone,

I just want to say that everyone at NTR is very grateful for all the support TOC has given us, and also very inspired by the passionate debate that the coverage has generated. We have been following all your comments and criticisms at every thread very closely, and hope to address and incorporate them in our future work. So please keep your opinions coming, and thank you again for speaking up on the issue of marital rape immunity.

Regards,
Mark
No To Rape team

I believe that one has its owns rights to say no to sex even where they are legally married. Both husband and wife have to seek consent with each other before having sex intercourse.It is NOT okay to rape your wife

Does this RAPING of wife affect the society?Will it affect any Religious or Social Groups?What about the children of Singapore.
Especially the males?Will they grow up in a sense of thinking that raping their wife is an OKAY thing to do? Lets hope that any of the minister will soon propose a bill to the parliament and come up with a decision that protects the woman

There is no sense of reality in proposing to make this subject matter marital rape into a criminal offence. It is nice to have such a law in the name of democracy but is it practical? There are thousands of divorces a year and every divorce is a potential marital rape case for Police to investigate. I hope the proponents of marital rape law can differentiate what is a criminal law and what is a civil law; otherwise all of us taxpayers have to foot the bills for Police instead of contending couples engaging private investigators and lawyers to investigate their divorces.

Hello folks, I think the most important thing for this issue is the couple had to reflect on themselve what kind of life that they want. If they someone to help, please do so. So guys, think 10 times before you commit yourself into setting up a family. Life is tough here, so just had to work thing out togather with the importance of LOVE for each other.

I think everyone is missing the point. If a woman is so threatened by a man that she thinks he will ‘rape’ her, why get married in the first place??? Another uniquely singaporean silly issue.

12) Gp on October 21st, 2009 1.46 pm

[[How can we ignore such important issues? Perhaps you’d feel more if your own mother or friend was raped by her husband and could do nothing about it.]]

Perhaps you would have feel more if your father or brother or friends have been falsely accused of rape and have their reputation ruin with no legal recourse while the accuser goes scot free?

You seem to forget there is always the two side of a coin. In this day of age, any men accused of rape will AUTOMATICALLY be deem guilty of the crime, regardless of whether there is evidence or not.

Use your brain a bit please.

@20) Mark Wong on October 21st, 2009 10.38 pm

Hi Mark, please address this scenario, assuming the “marital rape” law is passed.

Husband and wife are quarreling everyday for the past year. For whatever reason, the wife decides to divorce her husband. However, to get back at him, she pretends to make up with him by having sex with him (and make it ambiguous whether she gives her consent or not). After that, she cried “martial rape” and due to our pro-woman judges in rape cases, she wins the case.

Husband now serves a 20 years jail term for “rape” and you know how rapists are treated in jail (like the lowest scum on earth)

What do you have to say about such situation?

Contrary to what the no-to-rape team thinks, women here has many legal resources to protect themselves.

Firstly, they can don’t get married.

Secondly, if they really think the husband they are married to is a sexual predator, then they can file for a divorce. The moment they do this, she is protected even though divorce proceedings has not completed. (i.e. husband cannot have sex with her without her consent)

Thirdly, they can apply to court for an injunction against their husband to not have sex with them. Thereafter, they are protected.

What the law cannot do is when a woman DOES NOTHING. This is similar to the battered wife who did not report her husband. If a woman’s husband is sexually abusing her and she does nothing (not reporting to police) then the law cannot do anything. If she report to the police, she can report as spousal abuse and the police will take care of the situation.

Of course, the no-to-rape team will not tell people these facts just so they can get support for the cause.

Ever tot that Singaporeans realise that a petition “is the equivalent of throwing yourself at the emperor’s feet, begging to be heard”?

And that you will be told to go away.

Ask all those signers of the petitions organised by Tan Kin Lian. What did they achieve?

The only petition that resulted in something, a Parly debate, was done by Siew Kum Hong and the GLBT gang.

A lot of gd it did the GLBT — got the Christians worried abt GLBT power. Resulted in AWARE coup and counter coup. And govmin admitting it goofed in approving AWARE’s “anal sex is normal” sex education programme.

So petition’s are at best ignored. At their worst, they backfire.

“RAPING YOUR wife is okay in Singapore…”

Sounds so barbaric.
Does the people accept this situation?

I have never seen a petition in singapore with 10,000 signatures. Even the petition related to the mini bon bon fiasco where 10,000 people’s pocket got burnt badly did not receive as majority signatures.

forget it folks.

MISSION de IMPOSSIBOLA.

it’s been a long lull since i posted.

here’s some views of women on men, to bolster more reasons why this petition can be & will be abused.

some insights to how modern mums view married life, a small segment of society, but could it be the tip of an iceberg? 8)

general subforum:
http://www.mummysg.com/forums/f13/index4.html

specific threads of interests:
http://www.mummysg.com/forums/f13/what-things-you-hubby-will-purposely-do-irritate-you-18629/
http://www.mummysg.com/forums/f65/childs-death-cj-ups-jail-term-23104/

some responses are rather “eye opening”, to me at least…. can’t imagine the petition seek to protect some of those women. lol…

#i am in no way related to the forum, i am not their Admin or Mod.

25) btan on October 22nd, 2009 2.09 pm

Ya, like most of the cases of abuse don’t happen towards women. Like most of the oppressed people on the planet aren’t women. Like most of the spouses that get beaten up aren’t women.

Use your brain (and heart) a bit please.

Gp

post #31 on October 22nd, 2009 11.00 pm

////Ya, like most of the cases of abuse don’t happen towards women. Like most of the oppressed people on the planet aren’t women. Like most of the spouses that get beaten up aren’t women.

Use your brain (and heart) a bit please.////

let’s not get too carried away & over-generalise by raising it on a global scale, this petition applies only to S’pore & S’pore alone. its not a global petition.

women, young child & old folks all are more prone to physical (not ure about other forms) abuse. as for wives being beaten up, generally, women tend to choose a spouse who is physically bigger than themselves. it could be a psychological need to feel protected? of course, there are some who buck this trend, but its not that common.

please refrain from snide remarks. dun turn TOC into STOMP. lol…

33) mice is nice on October 22nd, 2009 11.20 pm

Hey mice is nice, I only used the same remark to show btan how simply his remark can be thrown back at him. As for snide remarks, I’m sure this is not the first time it’s happened on this website, although yes, we should refrain from it.

You wrote: “generally, women tend to choose a spouse who is physically bigger than themselves. it could be a psychological need to feel protected? of course, there are some who buck this trend, but its not that common.”

That might be a pretty big over-generalization by yourself.

And even if it’s true, it may be based on societal norms more than “physiological needs”. But if you can provide a link to a scientific research paper that backs such a claim, I’d be glad to read it.

Gp

post #35 on October 23rd, 2009 5.22 am

just because other post snide remarks does not mean you should follow blindly.

which remark are you refering to?

scientific research? i have not came across 1 such in local context myself, but do you really need 1? are there not enough living walking “prove” out in the streets in shopping malls, or any public places where couples are seen hanging out together.

why not you provide a link to a scientific research paper to prove that most local men do take pleasure raping their wives, (1) how could women fail to vet their potential spouse adequately for such serious flaws & (2) local women’s attitude towards marriage. i actually provided some links on point (2)…

i have a radical idea. make couples undergo a psychological accessments to acertain they are sane enough when they agreed to get married. failing that, the marriage will not proceed, because they were madly in love- thus, blind. love is blind mah. :P

lol…

@ 20) Mark Wong on October 21st, 2009 10.38 pm

“We have been following all your comments and criticisms at every thread very closely, and hope to address and incorporate them in our future work.”

My goodness, I thought people like you – the organisers/brains behind this petition – must have thought through ALL the arguments – pros & cons, BEFORE you even launch it.

Sadly, I am wrong.

The arguments AGAINST criminalising NON-CONSENSUAL sex in a MARRIAGE have already been cogently presented in the thread “In S’pore, raping your wife is not rape” *Third link given in article.

For the supporter to even disgrace himself/herself to use the analogy of not being able to withdraw his money from the bank at will even though he/she KNEW BEFORE he/she even opened the bank account, speaks volume of the SHALLOWNESS and FRIVOLITY of such a campaign to criminalise the act.

IN LAW, as it currently stands, THERE IS NO SUCH THING as RAPE in a MARRIAGE, save as provided under exceptions.

It is obvious that the poor response is because that the cause has NO MERIT in the overall context of a marriage as an institution.

[...] – Asian in America: A methodological note on political and social commentary [Recommended] – TOC: Petition against ‘marital rape’ off to slow start – Irreligious: Where are the Christians? – TOC: Richard Magnus as AICHR representative – The [...]

@ 35) mice is nice on October 23rd, 2009 9.21 am

I am not following blindly. I’m just showing our friend that 2 can play his game. I do not make other snide remarks on this website and I don’t intend to in the future either.

@ 36) Pathetic IDIOTS on October 23rd, 2009 6.01 pm

According to any dictionary: RAPE is the unlawful compelling of a woman through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse.

So marital rape is still rape and should be responded to accordingly too.

31) mice is nice on October 22nd, 2009 10.50 pm

perhaps as a woman, i suppose posts on sammyboy forums are pretty “eye-opening” as well.

:)

People transform after marriage. Keep that in mind. There are many things going through a woman’s head when she gets raped by her husband.

She won’t seek help because:
1) The people around her ALL believe that wives should satisfy their husband’s sexual needs, being married. So she thinks this is okay, tolerance is the key. In fact, that’s how a lot of couples live – by tolerating… not accepting.

2) Divorce is out of the question since she can’t differentiate between acceptance and tolerance. Because she is also financially dependent on her hubby and have gotten used to the life, she doesn’t want to leave. Divorce is also still considered really bad, especially by older generation (and the media).

3) Her husband could threaten to kill her if she tells.

4) Psychologically traumatised/depression. Doesn’t know why she’s living or who she’s living for anymore. Doesn’t trust anyone.

5) Humiliation. As silly as it sounds, in Singapore, there’s still a large demographic of people who believe that “women should be seen and not heard”.

It’s similar to what the women in 3rd world countries experience, a common fear which needs to be eradicated. So don’t point blame the woman for not telling as well. It’s not as easy as it sounds. This is why women need all the protection they can get.

Nevertheless, as the physically stronger gender, men are, by natural instinct, inclined to protect women, the “physically weaker”, and I’m sure many man do enjoy the responsibility, the feeling to be relied on and appreciated by any lady.

I’d never think that there will be men HESITATING on women’s protection for their own worries. Such men probably have not been in love before, and have not realised how important it is to make a woman feel protected or be betrayed by a man who promised to take care of her.

Do not get carried away by the influx of independent females in Singapore. Most of us are grateful to have a voice and equal opportunities as men, but we still can never beat them physically. It was mentioned that “women will be insulted” by this act @ 10) btan’s comment. I don’t see how. Even the most alpha female would, deep down, want to be protected somehow.

This is not about being a gentleman or even being chivalrous. It’s about basic responsibility and respect.

There are always going to be black sheep regardless of gender. I agree with some of the points raised regarding the possibility of a woman taking advantage of this act, should it be implemented.

However the odds of this happening vs men sexually abusing women is like 1:1 million (worldwide).

Shame on those who blame women for “using sex as bait”. Men can say “no” to sex easily, but women can’t if it’s forced on them physically, so I can’t believe some of our educated bunch of netizens would even think twice about protection against rape.

I think NTR has achieved part of its purpose by increasing awareness of this topic, nevermind the petition. Good job!

Gp

post #38 on October 26th, 2009 12.56 am

the points you raised had been countered (why such reasoning is flawed) very well in the previous 2 articles.

also, how can the relationship between the husband & wife be swept into oblivion has been covered too.

just not necessairly (covered) by me.

youn

post #40 on October 27th, 2009 5.19 pm

////perhaps as a woman, i suppose posts on sammyboy forums are pretty “eye-opening” as well.////

possible, if there are “hordes” of adulterous wives seeking fun (since to some, a husband can be just another other man)?

did i hear someone chanting humans rights & the freedom to do as he/she pleases ? does that (human rights) includes the right to casual sex outside marriage/adultery anot? more so if the wive is in an less than fulfilling marriage?

:P

42) mice is nice on October 28th, 2009 7.33 pm

er there are many married men who are forumers on sammyboy, and are most likely cheating on their wives. I can’t believe the first thing which came to your head was “adulterous wives”.

I also still can’t believe that the forum posts that you mentioned should be a legit reason why ppl shouldn’t support NTR.

It just doesn’t make sense

youn

post #41 on October 27th, 2009 10.41 pm

pardon me for backtracking alittle & replying to your earlier post.

////She won’t seek help because:////

1) do married women loose the ability to be independant after marriage? they cannot think for themselves? lol…

2) you are saying that wives lack reasoning skills again, & if she does not 1 2 leave what can you (or anyone who really 1 2 help her do?) do? isn’t education the key? as for “divorce is really bad”, the answer to a social problem like stigma is education, not legislation. no?

3) if her life is in danger shouldn’t she get police to help? unless she is locked up in an underground cell with no means of communicating with the world outside.

4) “Doesn’t know why she’s living or who she’s living for anymore.” please explain the link to marital rape. “Doesn’t trust anyone.” so how will this petition help her in this case?

5) “Humiliation”, being accused of rape is no small matter. & for men to be accused, society largely views such men as guilty before the verdict is out.

perhaps you should indicatwe if the depression is a result of the rape. i do not 1 2 jump into conclusion based on false assumptions.

point (1), (2) partially since there are several issues raised & (5) being opinion piece could be put forth with objectively. point (3) is clearly a personal safety issue, i believe are existing avenues to seek help if need be.

as for fear, changing the law will not remove it, though it may for some. but as with most fears, education is the solution.

////I agree with some of the points raised regarding the possibility of a woman taking advantage of this act, should it be implemented.

However the odds of this happening vs men sexually abusing women is like 1:1 million ////

how can you support a flawed petition where the possibility is ever present, look away like its not there & make a bold claim you cannot even substantiate (simply because you are talking castles in the air). in the same post mention responsibility? (o.O)

until the loopholes are covered, the petition is flawed. hence, most people will not support it blindly. 8)

44) mice is nice on October 28th, 2009 11.35 pm

You would understand what I mean if you ever meet a lady who loved you so much and would do anything to be together with you, even if it means subjecting herself to violence, as long as you are happy (especially past the passion stage, into the committal stage of marriage) .

She loses all her friends but she doesn’t mind so long her husband is fulfilled, she thinks that her life is “complete” just be being with her husband, hoping that he will one day change for the better. This could also point to why she has no one to turn to.

Trust me, there are many marriages like that. That’s why divorce rates of our parents’ and grandparents’ generation is low precisely because of “over-tolerating”.

This is “Doesn’t know why she’s living or who she’s living for anymore.” What awareness groups/NTR can do is to use a little force to separate her from this reliance and bring her to reality, that hey, perhaps there is so much more to life than surviving your abusive husband. Sometimes anyone of us can be trapped in a well, blinding us, thinking that we are happy. We just need that few helping hands to once in a while, give us that reality check.

Although the petition is about law, it’s also good to note the social and psychological causes of marital rape.

While I enjoy the pragmatic viewpoints raised here, I’d also like to call for a little more empathy on the subject matter as it’s violence against women we’re talking about here, something which women have always been on the losing end centuries ago all over the world… rape of Nanjing…Bosnian War…HIV as a weapon in Congo..comfort women… the list never ends… and now sexual violence is happening even within marriages!

I thank the many men out there who are increasingly becoming more sensitive towards women’s issues :) It’s definitely pushing Singapore forward to being a more modern, open-minded nation without compromising the ability to feel for others.

Whether people vote or not vote for the petition doesn’t bother me. The most important thing is still awareness and recognise what people are fighting for, the fact that they read through it and are also reading this discussion board.

youn

post #46 on October 29th, 2009 8.08 am

if there are sick women will will put her dignity or life on the line for love, there too will be the male equivalent. so why such a gender biased petition? you said it yourself in the previous post, the possibility of men being sexually assualted is too far off from 50/50.

from your several posts, it seems you do sympathise more with the female gender for reasons i do not know. your opinion that most wives fall into the stereotype you portray. hence, you are supporting the petition due to sympathy & not merit. this alone is a cause for concern.

as for being blind to reality & being fooled to think that they are happy, in this day & age, with more ways to communicate, how isolated can 1 be from reality? more so for local women where relatives are never too far away. how signs of mental or psychological health can go undetected. members of her immediate family should be at the frontline (social issues), in cases of any work related mishaps, the immediate family members are the 1st people to contact, no?

by the way, you have not made clear if depression you mentioned is a result of rape or was it already present. while there are implications of trauma & depression arising from any kind of violence including rape, are there no such provisions provided for in the current legal framework? yes or no?

////women have always been on the losing end centuries ago all over the world… rape of Nanjing…Bosnian War…HIV as a weapon in Congo..comfort women… the list never ends…////

eh, can you be more objective? or are you some feminist who indulge too much time reading up stuff on attrocities against women in general over the centuries? therefore built a skewed image of women (not wives) being constantly abused?

there are more men who are more sensitive to gender equality & its related issues today, but you are confusing empathy with sympathy. not to mention threading off course by bringing up rape of Nanjing, Bosnian war, HIV in Congo, etc…. which is entirely not related to marital rape itself. :P who is more in need of areality check here?

what bothers me is that, you are sensitive to women’s needs & rights alone but is numb to the sensitivities raised about the loopholes that is open to exploitation? are you fighting for a petition against injustice or fighting for fighting’s sake? 8)

46) mice is nice on October 29th, 2009 3.43 pm

“if there are sick women will will put her dignity or life on the line for love…” – they are not sick at all :) I would risk my life for love. Who wouldn’t? You?

“hence, you are supporting the petition due to sympathy & not merit.” – would you not support this petition with your heart if someone close to you was a victim?

“or are you some feminist who indulge too much time reading up stuff on attrocities against women in general over the centuries? therefore built a skewed image of women (not wives) being constantly abused?” – I mentioned “many”, not all. I am a woman and I’m very aware of what my friends, relatives, friends of relatives are going through.

Sorry, but this seems more like an argument than a discussion. This is an open forum/comment box, not academic banter. The point of comments is to provide a variation of responses, biased or unbiased, subjective or objective, statistical or feeling-based.

If being terribly objective means so much to you (which I feel like I’m being forced into), then I shouldn’t be even commenting :) I am writing straight from my heart and seriously, there’s nothing wrong with it imho.

I already mentioned that there are black sheep in whichever gender, and I do admit that some females can be quite ruthless, but my stand is clear: This is still no excuse to, because of a small number of black sheep, NOT protect the weaker gender.

I’ve a cat, she bites me everytime and ignores me, but I still love her and take care of her because it’s just human nature to want to protect something or someone. Parents care for their children no matter how rebellious they are. Likewise, both husband and wife should care for one another and should something go wrong, it’s a gentle goodbye and good wishes. This is unconditional love.

Violence against a wife or woman is simply wrong, it’s not human. If you’re still concerned about the petition having loopholes, my personal stand is ^^ read above until you get it.

It is disturbing to see an increasing amount of netizens insisting that every post be objective and to tackle every subject with no feeling, no heart, no warmth. This is my personal defense on your very polite requests for me to be more objective. I can’t do it.

“are you fighting for a petition against injustice or fighting for fighting’s sake?” – look at yourself in the mirror :)

Hope this made your e-peen slightly larger.

youn

post #48 on October 29th, 2009 8.35 pm

if women 1 2 please their husbands in ways that is taboo (this itself is subjective) as an act of love, you said that “I would risk my life for love.”, why are some people who do not know the couple raise the hoohaa?

if someone close to me is a victim of such an abuse, that does not mean i will support this petition. it would be my failing to let personal issues cloud my judgement.

if you hold the opinion that there is little point being objective about a petition with serious implications on marriage & all it entails & feel there is nothing wrong with it, you should seriously consider not wearing your heart on your sleeve for your own sake. dun make a fool out of yourself (& indirectly the petition).

hmmm, you chose your cat or were you forced to adopt it? like parenthood & most marriages in S’pore today, its a personal choice. a decision made to commit to a shared way of life. with that in mind, how can criminalising rape with no regard to marriage be any right?

loopholes not ironed out in this petition is a valid ground not to go ahead with it until the loopholes are covered. in similiar people will sound alarm bells if a women chooses an abusive husband-to-be. its insane.

thanks for letting (not just) me know you are a woman. being objective does not mean a post is cold, calculated & exacting, this again may be your personal opinion. maybe its just you who have yet to find the balance between the heart & the mind right (you have others for company). ;)

How do you legislate “morality” of marital rape when a wife can change her mind after the fact for all motives unfathomable?

It is the Pacific Ocean you try to swim across.

The bedroom is a private domain and it should stay that way. In martial disputes there is no angels nor devils, just contesting minds and living habits clouded too many stresses of modern living.

Is that not enough??

[...] some netizens are not supportive of the campaign. Toolang comments at The Online Citizen blog The poor response shows that if every couple supports the campaign to [...]

[...] some netizens are not supportive of the campaign. Toolang comments at The Online Citizen blog The poor response shows that if every couple supports the campaign to [...]

[...] some netizens are not supportive of the campaign. Toolang comments at The Online Citizen blog The poor response shows that if every couple supports the campaign to [...]