hahaha…..1st 50 plus means you are an older worker, and then it is 40 plus and now 30 plus means you too OLD dude…..What will FW think of MM Lee

Like his old daddy said, he is too good for them.

Or, like what everyone else says, he is incapable of leading them.

Either way, I find it more troubling that those NTU students present were laughing along to these dumb statements.

I would be luffing at these bad jokes too if not for the fact that I’m trapped in it.

ha. ha. ha. dare to dream… ha. ha. ha.

What a USELESS dud we have for PM.

So please don’t call us back for NS once we hit 30 years old, thank you very much. Please put your million dollar money where your mouth is.

and i thought Bush jr. was an idiot…

i also dun like to have an over qualified, overly talented, very expensive [easily worth a re-conditioned leopard 2 main battle tank to his annual salary] and over aged 55+ general with no experience in actual field conditions in charge of us guys too….thank you very much also…if he is in charge i will rather join the other side then fight for him.

If the PR cannot stand to fight for Singapore, everything else about job creation, talents are really secondary. So if a military confrontation occurs only true bred Singaporean males are sent to sacrifice for the county while the PRs sit around to enjoy all the local benefits and get to vote you in office?

What is it for our compatriats that is currently serving at age of 30, 40 & 50s either actively or inactively and the blood and sweat serving national service??

With due respect Prime minister, where is the justice and equality? IS Singaporean males less superior than the PRs?

If his portrait is used as the target at the firing range, I’m sure many will improve their shooting scores.

“own time, own target – watch your front!”

Is this a double standard or what?

Singaporeans reservist till 40 not old.

PR serve at 30 years old is old.

Might as well ask all the locals to be regulars & give all the private sector jobs to the PRs & the foreigners.

“They are spice in the Spore Mix”

Do Singaporeans have no Spice? Oh we are just a MIx huh? C’mon people, we pay this joker millions to keep on talking us down. Enough is Enough!

If this is UK, the students would have all walked out! or worse throw a rotten egg at him. If this is Iraq, the object to throw will be a stiletto shoe!

Another “mee siam mai hum” moment.

Sorry hor. It was an honest mistake, let’s move on together… to my next biggest blunder!

We have to change our National Anthem to mee siam mai hum ——–mai hum—-mai hum————–mee siam mai hum—–mai hum——–mai hum——-mee siam–mai——–hum—————mai—mai———mai———–hum, mee siam mai chee hum————–mai chee hum————–mai chee hum———-mai chee hum,
So this is our National Athem.

It could be a freudian slip that reveals a lot more than what was said.

18 yr olds are more gullible, naive, fearful, and easier to brainwash. Perfect for NS. Try to do that to a 30+ guy, whether local or foreign, and it won’t work.

Anyone who have to deal with 30+ and 40+ reservists will know. They are only worried of one thing – retraining ! (meaning extended in-camp-training).

Long ago, NS was after you finish your university studies. But university allowed young people to grow a brain and defy authority when they see injustice. (Remember a guy called Tan Wah Piow ?).

NS can be a tool to teach young people not to challenge authority.

Hey, does that mean we will only be liable for reservist until 30 years old?

I’m sure by the time I’m 30 no one would want to be my PC, so do strike me off your list thank you.

Our PR is so cheap that we can only attract people who are unscrupulous in snatching jobs from Singaporeans but not prepared to do two years of NS. Such PRs will desert Singapore at the slightest sign of trouble. At the slightest sign of danger, Singapore’s population will shrink from 4+ million to 3 million.

What kind of BG to state that platoon commanders cannot command soldiers of 30-40 years old. This implies that our platoon commanders are useless and incompetent. Maybe this is true of White Horse platoon commanders but street-wise platoon commanders can definitely command the 30-40 years old PRs.

Singapore males are serving NS in vain and all Public Relations on the necessity of NS is crap.

so now u know why he only has “ball” (just one) to talk to kiddos and aunties in forums…hardly any dialogues with professionals…especially guys!

I know he wanted to say that first, he needs to attract the FTs-the first generation, to make them feel comfortable to settle down.So, don’t disturb them.

Next,he meant to say these people who are in their 30-50s are not suitable to be soldiers any more.

Well, it kind of feel strange to to the readers that we(the males) are still serving in the reserve units till we are 40 or 45. What makes us so different in built and physique from the FTs?

Then, I thought the FTs are mostly younger – mid 20s to mid 30s. Is he saying that those FTs that come here are the mid-life lots like him?

Very puzzling! Mai Hum.

Larry King of CNN asked Chris Rock an actor in America, whether America was ready for a black president or a woman president. His reply was why not we already have an “IDIOT” for a president in reference to George Bush, then the president of America.

Well, we in Singapore have just discovered we also have an idiot for a prime minister who had the audacity to say this about our NS and Reservists soldiers. Hey, I did my 21/2 years of NS and also did 13years of reservists well into my late 30’s close to 40. So are you telling me I did all this to be made fun of by and idiot of a PM?

Thanks. Well, lets make sure that we get rid of such idiots and hhis band of idiots come the next election! Sure Singapore is ready for an opposition PM let alone a lady and I mean from the workers party and definitely not the idiots wife!!

Seriously, the youngest general in the modern military history (at age 32+?), what do you expect? I doubt he even knows how to strip his rifle clean. Only can impress morons.

Anyway per my post in the source blog, he is welcome to be my platoon commander. Our NS PC was also another white horse/A**H*** type; we were quite happy to encounter the enemy early — cos’ down goes that man in the first burst of fire. Front, back, right, left….ain’t matter…. everyone will swear it was enemy fire.

I guess this is a tacit admission that these foreign trash are not committed to this country. They are here for the money so why trouble them.

Time to migrate or vote opposition.

My borther who is a PR is happy to serve as a PC

This statement shows that the country loves FTs more than locals

i think what LHL meant to say is if he was a 20-yr-old PC, he wouldnt be able to lead folks old enough to be his father, and there certainly is truth that young bodies make better soldiers than 30 or 40 yr old ones but I don’t see how they can’t serve in other ways.

If you look at all these negative comments, you should be able to understand perfectly why PM Lee would not like to be their platoon commander.

And probably for all other age group if the mentality is the same.

PRs don’t serve NS ne’mind…but why the f*** r they eligible to purchase HDB flats? My mudder who was just watching the news said those newly released HDB flats r oversubscribed – seemingly mainly by PRs from PRC.

To my all dear military personnel who are serving your NS, now you all know the feeling of being a real idiot . . . .please know who is your real enemy now before regretting your action as command if the need arises.

looks like its time to petition against conscription with such a statement.

i think 15 year old local boys will sign!! should be easy to collect a battlion strength of signatures!!

;)

“If we make it (NS and Reservist for PR) a requirement, we would not get the people we wanted.”

I am not how to interprete this statement but i’ll try and ask some question.

1. Getting the so-called people they ‘we’ wanted is more important than having them do national service?

2. PR can choose not to do service if they like?

can someone enlighten me?

Should we set an age limit for the members in the Cabinet as well?

If i understand correctly, under those circumstances he would rather be a PRIVATE so he could snake around just like those who are in their 30s 40s 50s!

Honestly, I don’t care if new male citizens go back to NS to count caterpillar legs at 35 years old or not. If natural born male citizens who are medically fit needs to go back ICT and pass IPPT every year, new male citizens should do the same as long as they pass their FFI. It is as simple as that.

Don’t even need to train them in the army, sent them to police and SCDF we also happy, as long as the playing field is leveled. (i.e., they have to go back ICT and go for IPPT like us)

New citizens are the ones with the best of both worlds, no need to do NS and still get citizenship benefits.

Honestly, I don’t care if new male citizens go back to NS to count caterpillar legs at 35 years old or not. If natural born male citizens who are medically fit needs to go back ICT and pass IPPT every year, new male citizens should do the same as long as they pass their FFI. It is as simple as that.

Don’t even need to train them in the army, sent them to police and SCDF we also happy, as long as the playing field is leveled. (i.e., they have to go back ICT and go for IPPT like us)

New citizens are the ones with the best of both worlds, no need to do NS and still get citizenship benefits.

Either than or release us from NS at age 30 (and new citizens before 30 years old have to go do NS still)

words of a leader?

what sad state of leadership qualities… must ask our dear MM Lee about his high falutin’ leadership “succession” plans.

“what happens when a dude (you thought was a top gun) runs a country? will he not do us in?” :P

I find that our PM lacks the EQ to be a leader. He is such a straight talker and really clueless about what is going on the ground. I strongly think he is still dreaming that a very huge majority of Singaporeans will support PAP. The tide has started to change. People whom i know of as PAP diehearts are beinging to doubt the present leadership. Some are even furious with the way the country has turn itself into a International Airport for any FT. The damage is wide and too late for healing the wounds. I am smiling now. Becoz i know PAP days are numbered. This election will be an eye opener for all. We sinkies must continue to demand a better government and a more equal status with FT. Another Election Tsunami is coming to our shore.

I have been wondering why nobody in the audience threw a shoe at the piece of shit.
I also wonder why the students in the audience think it is funny and laugh with that piece of shit.
I also don’t understand why none of the students ask that piece of shit questions regarding the high influx of foreigners in our country.

I think there could be only one reason………all the students in the audience are foreign students, foreign scholars, foreign lecturers

PAP *pui*
LSL *pui* *pui*

Singaporean parents should request National Service to be abolished and be replaced by regular forces.

patriot

@22) Leanne on October 2nd, 2009 9.46 pm

“…..My borther who is a PR is happy to serve as a PC ….”

PC of what? The cookhouse platoon? Commandos? Balls-carrying party? Committee in charge of getting our leaders on first plane out of S’pore?

24) walau on October 2nd, 2009 9.59 pm

“….i think what LHL meant to say is if he was a 20-yr-old PC, he wouldnt be able to lead folks old enough to be his father, and there certainly is truth that young bodies make better soldiers than 30 or 40 yr old ones but I don’t see how they can’t serve in other ways….”

Excuse me, but the average age of the American soldier that fought in WW2 was like 26-28. Books abound of 30+ and even 40+ jumping in to fight, I repeat, jumping in. Here, we have a general (ret.) that obviously can only operate in a set-piece situation. Honestly, does that inspire confidence? Maybe he will only lead if we could give him 100,000 SAS or Navy Seals + a zillion F-16s + a trillion Leopards (+ did I miss any other things important?). Like he can only lead S’pore if the economy is perfect & everything’s handed to him on a silver platter.

I have got nothing to say. Utterly… utterly… nonsense. I have given up hope. His policy hardly do citizen good…. Is Blue IC worth more than Pink IC?

Didn’t they increase the pay of NS men by 20% last month?

That way such jokes, instructions or subtle putdowns of telling you that PR doing NS is not likely will sound more palatable.

Porky pie applied on 20+ Singaporeans will work all the time. It’s a well trusted and tested strategy which works like wonders all the time.

So now you know about PAP style, what can you do about it?

#38 – I totally understand what you’re saying when u say ‘ …can only operate in a set-piece situation”.

I think LHL is a cunning speech maker – he chooses to focus on the micro-operations of a platoon that exaggerate those inherent tensions like PC ordering his men to do sai-kang etc which will generate unhappiness regardless of whether the men he is ordering are old enuff to be his uncle, elder brother, father or grandfather.

Without any doubt, he is just only a ‘peace time’ leader. Anything too old or lousy, count him out to lead.

In times of wars, he would end up joining the aggressors as an interpreter.

Like father like son: “How much backbone worth huh?”

Enough of PAP government’s rubbish.

Let’s honour NSmen by

i) FREE medical health-care for life and FREE hospitalisation for LIFE

ii) 50% discount for HDB flats.

Anything short of the proposed is to short-changed NSmen.

Oh then like that hor, he should not blame Singaporeans refusing to accept jobs like cleaners lor…

Not fair to scold us leh!

Hello,we are invited, becourse your country needs us,
so its on OUR terms.

Guys… don’t blame him lah, blame yourself for sleeping all this while. If you have to wait till now to learn that he is a idiot and stupid…. so as you.
Haha!!! did you guys get to see the recent National Day”s celebration of China? I just feel shameful that our puppies and MM still think they’re better than the Chinese governments….. way to catch up, ah long.

PM Lee said “But I cannot stop people bringing the people in, and unfortunately I cannot do away with NS.”

He is of course right. It is the people of Singapore who can only do it. How???
Vote for change in the next elections. Don’t complaint otherwise if things become unbearable.

1/3 of voters vote for change every elections. They just need another 1/5 of voters to vote for change to make it a reality. Come on Singapore.

Is our PM. hallucinating?As I have said before,his father cannot be duplicated by
him.That’s why we need Senior Lee to be around for a long time.

Elites of Singapore don’t put themselves for competition like ordinary Singaporean with CPF/NS disadvantages.and have to compete with cheap foreign talents of $1800.
They just sue the opponents to brankrupcy!

Singaporean let show Authorities what it means by competition in 2012 with a opposition GRC.

I think things have come to a stage where our leaders can even say “Fxxk you people” and yet they can still win the next election with 98% seats!

That’s how pathetic and terrible Singapore politics has degenerated into.

TO: 45) ChinesePR on October 3rd, 2009 1.30 am

// Hello,we are invited, becourse your country needs us,
so its on OUR terms.

Excuse Me ChinesePR, WHO invited you? LKY? LHL? Or did you INVITE YOURSELF IN ???
And may i know what do you do here in Singapore that is so Talented and Important to make you so BIG **** ??

I think there are already a Million of you trash in SG at the moment – who INVITE yourselves in!!

Singaporeans ARE still your Host, you as Guest should respect us too, u know!!
Example:
** As a guest, Do you think its right to go to a host’s party and sleep on the host’s bed without permission?? ** So please…. don’t think so BIG **** of yourself!!

new world record … dumbest, highest paid PM + BG + clown !

make u want to stick the rifle tip up his *ss !

I like to share with all those that has done NS/Reservist.

In the 1973 Yom Kippur War, Israel was nearly wiped out. The threat was particularly acute on the Golan Heights; the defense there had since became legendary, on par with the 300 Spartans at Thermopylae. This tide there was turned largely due to the RESERVISTS that were mobilized and rushed to the area — civilian soldiers in their 30s, 40s and maybe 50s. They even had to draw on their old tanks (some of WW2 vintage) in the desperate fight. Their colonels and generals were certainly men in their 40’s & 50s — competent people that knows how to lead 20s, 30s, 40s and 50s-year olds.

Some people always compare Singapore with Israel; we are NOT them. For start, our honchos are way off the mark as leaders. Their leaders talk from years of experience, ours talk from years of carping shit.

For those interested, I recommend read books like “The War of Atonement” by Chaim Herzog, who fought in that war as a general and later became one of Israel’s Prime Ministers. Now that was a man, a general and a PM. (Sorry, I don’t have info on his pay slip for comparsion). “Duel for the Golan” is another excellent account, unfortunately rare to find now.

PM Lee was a recruit who could not run or do pull up, did not pass IPPT but they sent him to OCS and he became the youngest BG?

Yeah and he said there is NO White Horse in the army? His son served the army, he was given a room and a laptop where all other recruits could only watch in silence.

I think our NS stories are good for humor column in Reader Digest.

Your government invited we people to help develop this little city. Dont be ingrateful. because if u annoyed us and if we sayonara, u like go back to kampung days (?) ha ha.

I agree with Fish’s gist that it probly sucks to be a S’porean male. I used to fret when staff had ICT in the middle of an IT project. It was near impossible to get a deferment cos Mindef cares less abt your project…used to wish we had more foreigners in the team..sorry to say that but delayed projects = unhappy clients = liquidated damages..

My PR friend used to have all the perks of S’poreans and refused to take up SG citizenship cos he said there was no benefit. Just before his son got called up for NS, the entire family gave up the PR and they left SG. They can still visit SG including the son. Compare that with another friend whose entire family gave up SG citizenship and applied for exemption for NS for their son who emigrated with the family when he was 9. They made a mistake of extending his SG passport when he first left and Mindef decided he needed to do NS cos he “benefitted from SG citizenship”. The poor fella will be handcuffed/ imprisoned if he sets foot in SG. Is this fair ? The ex PR friend always laughed when he got invitations to take up SG citizenship. Guess he does have the last laugh…

And what’s happened to the S’porean born Norwegians (?) who can’t step into SG to visit their parents ? Really think that sucks too…

1) PM Lee can’t stop bringing people in.
2) PM Lee can’t do away with NS.
3) PM Lee can’t make NS mandatory children of PRs.

Besides drawing a salary that is higher than 7 world leaders combined, what else can he do then?

The problem is in Singapore, NS is compulsory and the PAP takes full advantage of the situation. In the US Navy for example, it is voluntary and they have to givwe you good benefits for you to sign on – including life-time free medical benefits. Whereas Singapore NS men are screwed – low pay during NS days, higher risk of being sacked during ICT, and worries about losing job after 40 and low retirement $.

http://www.navy.com/benefits/after/

After the Navy Benefits
——————————————————————————–

When you choose to leave the Navy, you will continue to receive assistance as a Navy veteran. This can include the services of the Veterans Administration in terms of finding employment or schooling, no-money-down and low interest loans for new homebuyers, preferential hiring for government jobs, and receipt of Montgomery G.I. Bill money for school if you choose to contribute during your enlistment.

If you make the Navy your career, your retirement benefits will be far greater. You will receive generous retirement pay, and you will continue to receive health benefits and on-base shopping privileges similar to those you enjoyed while on duty.

Lee Hsien Loong statements boiled down to his fear of being shot. He believes that PR cannot be trusted – thus it will not be suitable for them to hold rifle and live bullets. If he were a platoon commander for these group of PR, his safety will be gone. Ulimately he still feels Singaporeans are easy to control and bullied while serving NS, unlike PR who can run road easily. Thus there is this security reason behind his statements. Contradictorily, he trusted PR and non-citizens to be serving the commercial sector. If you cut his statements into a senstence, it means: NS FOR SINGAPOREANS, JOBS FOR PR/FT.

Sorry, I’m a girl here so I may not be good with all this NS stuff. But, doesn’t it make sense not to have older men above 30s to be in NS? I mean, would you still want to be in NS at 30 when you have a whole life ahead for you (career, family, blah blah)?

Or maybe I’m mistaken. Please enlighten me?

“PM Lee “would not like” to be your platoon commander if you’re 30, 40, 50 years old”

Likewise, I also would NOT want him to be my leader whether he’s 30,40 or 500 yrs old ! period !

Only in Singapore can politician spout such arrogant stuff and get away with it. After all, wasn’t it MM Lee who said that the PAP will win the next two election and that if we do not have them at the helm then our women will become maids overseas? In other countries, they will be crucified.

@58) Peter Tan on October 3rd, 2009 10.02 am

Thks for the sharing.

When I was doing business in Thailand, I hired a 72-year old driver who had served in the Thai army in his youth. Still quite healthy but with increasing problems with age — however, he is cheerful because he is assured of free LIFE-LONG health care at their veteran hospital. This may seems as a sure money losing program to our pragmatic S’pore minds, but what a great gesture — he is still working not because of worries about his health costs. It is sad that our MSM only knows how to present the political and social unrest there for our digestion.

For those that keeps harping that standards are good here, that we should consider ourselves lucky, blah, blah…. pls open your small minds. It is not about GDP per capita, it is not about having the best airport in the world, it is certainly not about able to attract F1 racing here. It is about having first class citizenry to the common-man even if in a second class or third class environment — something which people born with a silver spoon in their mouths can’t understand.

two words: feeling sickening

#58 Peter Tan,

“The problem is in Singapore, NS is compulsory and the PAP takes full advantage of the situation.”

Your above statement sums it up very well. I think it is the best statement in this thread. Also I want to add that the Gahmen know that our NS males (those that still stay behind to do NS) do not want to or cannot migrate elsewhere. These are the “pa see buay zau” meaning beat them to death also don’t want to escape.
Ironically these are the people that give PAP and SIngapore an army to deter aggressors. And yet PAP can insult them somemore! Haha!!

@62) Colonel Jessup on October 3rd, 2009 11.19 am

Oh, I thought you meant the EQ-deficient, mouth-shooting-rubblish STTA president who is also a MP in our PM constituency. Maybe birds of a feather do flock together? Having a picture of them beside George Bush Jr. would be worth a million bucks, no?

PS. apologies to #35) George Bush the Second on October 3rd, 2009 12.00 am for stealing your line.

the fact is i am sure none of you dares to even write to the MSM about your comments.

the fact is even singaporeans themselves like Ms Jen Ong, who sent an sms ‘yourinsight’ to the ST, is admitting that “singaporeans are such an obedient pack that they would suffer in silence and pray for better wages.” She was lamenting that due to EXTREME influx of middle-kingdomites.

singaporeans are so manageable that they will also pay and pay for that pay tv soccer and accept it, tho they will kpkb in coffee shops. The tv service provider is able to confidently implement this because i suspect they understand the singaporean mentality – will kpkb but do nothing wan. wahhahahahaha!

The reporter said “No way we are giving up watching football even if it costs the earth.” This sums it up, to me.

some durians are baojia.

singaporeans have only yourselves to blame.
well done.

to SIN ! Mr/Mrs/Ms PR.

Indeed, it is clear that the SIN Government seems to say without You and other foreign aliens, it will not survive.

SIN needs intelligent foreigners like YOU !

“For those interested, I recommend read books like “The War of Atonement” by Chaim Herzog, who fought in that war as a general and later became one of Israel’s Prime Ministers”

Yep, in comparison, our SiSiLEE has fought in ZERO war and later became one of SG’s worst PM because he basically inherited his father’s role. Anyhow, me going to have my bowl of mee siam mai hum for lunch.

#48,

U must b joking ! If Lee Junior duplicates his father, he will be working for the enemies in a war like Lee Senior working for the Japanese when the Japanese massacred most Chinese they came into contact in the 2nd WW.

You wont wan a traitor to lead u in national defense, do u ? Wat if he open fire from yr back ?

“They are spice in the Singapore mix”

What is spice without the real meat? Why don’t we spice up the PAP by having a FT as our new PM?

Join the cause “End National Service, End Conscription” on Facebook.

http://apps.facebook.com/causes/353071/76804934?m=1b2abeb2

Everyone is welcomed. Thank you.

NEVER vote a party that LOOK down on it own ppl!

60) jas on October 3rd, 2009 11.09 am

Dear Jas,

Here are a few pointers for you to ponder about : –

1) Yes,its does not make sense for men above 30 to be in NS,however it does make sense if NS has been made compulsory & obliged to serve regardless if men are reservists(NSMen) or a regular in the armed forces.

2) Career & family life will always hang in the balance or rather it depends on the employer’s mindset,i believe you are in a corporate environment,ask yourself this as a woman in Spore exempted from NS,does your employer gives you the empowerment to decide if you want to have a career & balance a family life as well?

3) NS was introduced in 1967 due to political unrest & uneventful circumstances in Singapore,we are sandwiched between 2 Muslim states – Malaysia & Indonesia,i do have encountered incidents where saboteurs will do anything to create pandemonium.

4) As a full-time student now in London,England,when i explain the meaning of conscription duty of Spore born male citizens to the Brits,they say,”Jolly good show you S’poreans have where anything & everything is as dramatic or better compared to a reality tv series.

5) Have you seen The Matrix?Did you take the red pill or the blue pill?If you want to go to LaLa Land & see how deep the rabbit hole goes,either be an avatar like Neo or Trinity,in other words,from slumber land, you head down to wonder land!

6) Give yourself options or alternatives as Singapore is as good as a sinking ship,we can’t swim,can’t float,can’t even breath fresh air,why do we have to stay here & fight a losing battle?I have decided to ply my skills & talents in either Europe,US or Canada,even Down Under & NZ gives you a better life.Nuff said!

LHL: A fair-weather platoon commander!

Reply to #60 jas.
There are many ways to serve out your NS in Singapore.If a male is
physically unfit or too old to be in the combat role,the defense ministry would give
you non combat role to perform such as a clerical staff or kitchen staff.Do you know
that in event of an invasion by a foreign force,we who are in our 30s and 40s,are the
ones that will be at the front line to protect you and your family.We as Singaporeans
and as reservists, would like to see a same level playing field as the PRs and
new citizens.NO MORE NO LESS.
Do you know that during the 70s and 80s,Singapore males whose
service had been deferred due to their oversea study have to come back to serve out
out their NS,even when their age were at 30+.Hope that i have enlightened you on
this matter.

Frankly would you go to WAR with BG LHL? or any other PAPER GENERALS?

I think not many will stay behind to fight for this country …. if they could do a honest poll….. I am very sure the result would be obvious……..

Will our PRs leave the land that our PM claim is their home?

Will the Fallen talents split the land …… at the end of it ….. we will have poor Singaporeans to defend our land….. how did they get poor financially ? Your guess is as good as mine………

Bottomline exercise your right , so that you can do the following

GET YOUR CPF MONEY
HAVE CRYSTAL clear understading ofwhere our investments went.
How tax payers money are spent…..
What is left of our National reserves…..

With a change of GOVT we have these answers…

that’s why we need to increase his salary even more, so that he will like to take on the job.

do you see the problem and dangers of using million dollar salaries to attract “talent” in these types of jobs now?

We ChinesePRs are so thankful to the Singapore government for their
invitation: now we have a steady job, a steady income, and a good HDB flat to stay and my kids given a place in a good school
We are even more thankful for the 10 million dollar ”Immigrants Integration Programme’ and free English Lessons.
And, we dont have to do NS.

Let me say it upfront, whether I am 18 or 60 yrs of age, I would not want PM Lee to be my platoon commander. Those of us who served NS during the same period as him know about his white-horse status. Not least, his meteoric rise to the rank of BG is a mockery to military service.

In a real combat scenario, I wager that PM Lee as platoon commander would have taken cover or taken the first flight out. Like a hum, he will clam up. LOL

Damn shocking to hear that.

I have also just completed my NS LIABILITY (lets call a spade a spade). But to hear what my PM said then what is the point of NS.

So what are we going to do about ??

Do Singapore men have the balls to boycott their reservist when called up ?

Are we going to protest against what PM said ?

The answer is NO…becos we do not have the balls.

All we will do is complain in internet forums and coffeeshop …and that is it.

That is why PM and his ministers can make all this statements…becos they know we can’t do SHIT

You are not qualified to be a platoon commander, you effeminate daddy’s boy.

No decent Singapore citizen soldier would fight under your command.

Your BG rank represents nothing, except for all that is wrong about this government and PAP.

My take………..singapore government is lucky to have SG males. We do NS, We do reservists….

1)our social life suffer (how many of you break up with your GF when you go for BMT ?).
2)Our career suffer (how many of you were taruk during performance appraisal when you went for reservist and had to handover your work to a PR or FW and they take the credit for completing your project ?)

Lets not talk about PRs and FTs……Just look at SG gals. They are KPKB in the press everytime that they are unfairly sacked when they get pregnet. They complain everytime in the press that there not well represented fully in upper management…. Just imagine if they also had to do NS like our malaysian counterparts…… They will be complaining 365days a year when they see PRC gals working as sales reps in many outlets.

Like i said, we SG gov lucky to have us……(SG men that is).

My advice to you guys…..make sure your sons don’t go through what u went through. Migrate. The world outside of this stinkland is enourmous. Don’t restrict yourself here.

My post is ain’t anti gov…… Its just pro-sg men. Just migrate.

Hold your bullet folks, for those who is eligible to vote in the upcoming election…UNLEASH the voices of the people. Election probably be in Dec 09 if not will be Feb 1020.

If LHL was my PC, he would be the first enemy I’d shoot.

His comments are an insult to all male Singaporeans that are serving or have served national service. GCT used to lecture us on how we would end up as second class citizens if we emigrate to Australia or some other country. Well, I sure feel like a third class citizen in my own country while my friends that have emigrated tell me that they get fair and equal treatment in their newly adopted homelands even though they are only PRs there.

This is not the Singapore that I used to be proud of.

Hello folks, complain about what? Just vote the PAP out in the next election. Simple as that. Then we can call for a lot of change in S’pore. Remember folks: Yes We Can. just like Brazil elected to host Summer Olympics in 2016.

Singapore Armed Personnels must always remember that they are protecting the people and the country
and
not working for the Regime.
Remeber someone warned of using the army and presumably the police
if
there’s a freak election result
whereby the PAP Regime gets toppled and ousted ?

I guess the PAP must be tired of governing after all these years. Do they see Singapore born citizens (especially those who slave 2.5 years against their will) as a joke or what?

86)
Good suggestion but we need the opposition parties to field enough people for us to vote for.

Then again even if we do manage to vote the PAP out, what’s to stop them from using unfair means to stay in power as post 87 mentions

Why the blogoland is full of disagreement, dissatisfaction, disappointment, distrust, disrespect and disgust with the Lee Familee now ? After all, they have run Singapore for almost 5 decades, why now ? Have they not done wonderfully for Sg ?

74) OB marker on October 3rd, 2009 12.21 pm
NEVER vote a party that LOOK down on it own ppl!

WELL SAID,OB marker…I am not ashamed to say that I used to be pro-pappy…
but recent events has made me see the lights…and it is clear as day.
I used to think we have useless opposition after being fed daily with propaganda by the MSM…but not anymore.

Thanks to the internet…information is free and it has set my mind open even though my body is trapped in this island…I am not sure if the oppostion is still “lousy” anymore but I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and give them a fighting chance.

lky: digits
lhl: spore mix
mp: loser mortals
etc. etc…..

thanks our lucky stars they don’t call us SPERM !!!!!!!!!

PM Lee & George Yeo (former from the Army). Teo Chee Hean & Lui Teck Yew (former from the Navy).

These jokers hold “high rankings” but not being respected. They must have got their ranks through the back doors or buy from Sungei Rd.

PM Lee, Ho Jinx, MM Lee, famiLee & PAP are bunch of jackass.

What the heart thinks, the mouth speaks…..
Not surprise if they get assassinated one day by “friendly fire”.

With due respect, comments and articles are appreciated by many.
But the Effect leh? Got any? Really, if I migrate, i would not need to be concerned about all the issues and problems and maybe can be a Happier man.

It’s amazing how that man can destroy easily what was built over the last 50 yrs. We S’pore men are into 2nd generation NS now, what’s so difficult about integrating foreigners into some OTHER forms of NS? They will have the cake and eat it while the locals guys feed them, is that an apt analogy? We are taught to defend what we own, foreigners simpy walk in and enjoy it without some payback. I had given a lot of time over my NS n reservist obligations in vain, If a case of Kuwait were to happen here, shd I simply run like the foreigners, or do I put up a fight? My platoon commander may not like a 50 yr old reservist. I really cannot comprehend how an ex general can pissed off his own citizens soldiers.

EXTRACTED FROM
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=7980823109190564557&postID=80822547895709317&page=1

Anonymous said…
These FTs can do a special course, then serve reservist in

- Police [bring back the Special Constabulary - those red lanyard guys]
- SCDF [ambulance attendance, help out at fire stations etc]
- ICA [help catch illegal immigrants, check vehicles at check points etc]
- NEA [help check mosquitoes]

Then they will serve yearly reservist incamp.

SO MANY THINGS FOR THEM TO DO AS RESERVISTS.

October 2, 2009 9:27 PM

These FTs new citizens can do a special course, then serve reservist in

- Police [bring back the Special Constabulary - those red lanyard guys]
- SCDF [ambulance attendance, help out at fire stations etc]
- ICA [help catch illegal immigrants, check vehicles at check points etc]
- NEA [help check mosquitoes]

Then they will serve yearly reservist incamp.

SO MANY THINGS FOR THEM TO DO AS RESERVISTS.

New Citizens can serve reservist ICT up to the same ‘legal’ age as native Singaporeans.

New citizens don’t have to do NS and maybe pay little or no tax before they become citizen. But they can receive instant benefits, maybe even the baby bonus and other benefits which are given out to all citizens. Is this fair to locals who have paid taxes for years and whose children have done NS etc etc etc. I think it is grossly unfair.

There are rumours that Dr M is going to launch a WAR against Singapore. He was confident to WIN the war. He was interviewed by CMM,

CMM, “Dr M, how can you be confident that you can win the war against Singapore?”

In his usual casual manner, Dr M replied, “Easy lah, I guarantee their PAPER GENERALS, when they surrender, they will be absorbed into ROYAL MALAYSIA ARMED FORCES and I will DOUBLE THEIR PAY”.

@60) jas on October 3rd, 2009 11.09 am

Jas,

I may not be qualified to answer your query and there are some already given you some ideas. Just consider further the following:

1) Perhaps talk to your father, hubby, brother(s) or BF what NS/reservist is to SG males. Most of us are serving till or past 40 — sure we like to “charbok” if given the chance. Those that are “out of shape” go thru something call RT. So, I am sure the govt can whip the FTs into shape if desired, or simply “import” only the fittest ones, lah. Rule of jungle, like someone said, right?

2) Haven’t you heard about TOTAL DEFENSE? If one cannot hold a rifle, can still hold a broom, what. Look at Sumatra earthquake yesterday — they urgently require people that can treat broken bones. The FTs and SG ladies can be train in first aid, basic nursing functions, etc.. in lieu of NS. All these years we have an acute shortage of nurses. Why can’t the non-SG males population be trained in this field, then serve 2-week stink each year in A&E depts? This way they contribute to NS, learn/do something useful, and the shortage of nurses would be lessen. Why don’t you ask the govt why they no initiative/brains huh, instead of asking us about NS? Do you know that in Israel, their woman-folk also do NS, aka in non-combatant roles?

3) It is said that we might frighten the “right type” of FTs away if they have to commit to some form of NS, to do some roles which they consider “distasteful” to their status. Well, too bad. Singaporeans are being told not to be choosy, take any jobs, at peanut-level wages. Why the double standards?

Lastly, allow me to share something again from WW2. The Allies employed lots of airplanes in their war effort, and with so many males involved in actual fighting roles, there was a shortage of non-combatant pilots to ferry new planes from the factories to the front-line units. So America, Britain and (I think) Canada employed large numbers of female pilots to ferry these brand-new planes forward. They may not be involved directly with actual combat, but their contribution certainly helped the war effort. But such “cushy” jobs are not without its dangers — if they have to ferry long distance over large spans of water, an engine failure in a single-engined plane would mean a slim chance of survival. Yet these women served.

Now, pls think what SG-males are doing for our country and woman-folk, and maybe go do something positive to help us. Consider yourselves lucky that you have a 2+ years head-start in your career. Honestly, did SG males hold this against the females over all these years? No, we served.

#55, pls learn ur grammer b4 you come in to post ur comment, no wonder this country is going downhill inviting you craps here…damn!!

//96) NewImmigrants FIRST-NativeSingaporeansSECOND

-ICA- help catch illegal immigrant???

you got salah or not???
they will help more of their type to come in when they are on duty!

There is no point compalining if you are still going to vote for them.
You control your own destiny. I don’t believe they will change.
I am going to vote for Change. Singapore for Singaporeans.

If you are afraid to vote for Change, ask yourself this question: What happens if there is a drought in Singapore and the Papies have managed to increase our population to 9 million. What happens??? You don’t have to answer this question. Vote for Change now!

Drought?? What happens when a deadly virus hit us!!!

The tide has changed. There are series of big blunders caused by our ministers who are paid with obscene salaries. You can say bad luck or bad karma. It is happening now. More good years? Or Golden Years? or Swiss Living? Moving Ahead 2gether? I dont even want to digest what he blurted. Pure Lies only!

I am shaking my head in disbelieve that he is our PM. What he said to a bunch of 2 FACE students are nothing short of humiliating CITIZEN Soldiers especially those older ones.

ZL “would not like” to be your citizen since you draw high-rocket salary but unable to perform, make our life miserable and stressful, and yet still need to compete with the foreigners that you keep bringing in.

104) New Dawn

////////If you are afraid to vote for Change, ask yourself this question: What happens if there is a drought in Singapore and the Papies have managed to increase our population to 9 million. What happens??? You don’t have to answer this question//////////////

Vote to change the climate to prevent drought?

105) Time for Change

//////// What happens when a deadly virus hit us!!! //////////

The answer in the word “deadly”.

You will be DEAD.

99) NewImmigrants FIRST-NativeSingaporeansSECOND

///////// New Citizens can serve reservist ICT up to the same ‘legal’ age as native Singaporeans. ////////

Also can do NS by serving as security guards, construction workers, hawker centres table cleaners, HDB cleaners, and similar jibs Singaporeans shun. Recommended period same as NS. 2 years full time followed by ICT for 14 years cycle.

To 94) tom on October 3rd, 2009 3.18 pm
“PM Lee, Ho Jinx, MM Lee, famiLee & PAP are bunch of jackass.
What the heart thinks, the mouth speaks…..
Not surprise if they get assassinated one day by “friendly fire”.

No need to say it out so obviously mah.

By the way, can we save money and forget about state funeral for these people? If respectable president Ong did not get a state funeral. I don’t think these jokers deserve one either.

They should be hiding their graves overseas because they know what the people want to do. Just hope SPCA still has black dogs…

NS really become a big joke after those words from that piece of shit, isn’t it?

But seriously, my fellow NS/reservist brothers will you feel comfortable having those PRs/foreigners serving the NS/reservist with you? I would prefer to die fighting with 3 singaporeans then with 30 PRs/foreigners.

Bring on the GE, I will vote for monkeys if monkeys are allowed to contest. I don’t give a damn whether the GRC is led by a Minister or not.

I was at Fish’s site and I saw many comments about Fish taking PM’s words out of context… For those who think along the same line, do consider my viewpoint below…

Regardless of the whole speech by PM or just that particular paragraph that Fish emphasises, it does not deny the fact that PM just jump into the defense of those PRs against its own NS serving males.

Clearly his intention of his speech is to stand on the side of the PRs, hence we do not have to care about whether his statement is being taken out of context or not… cause his intention is to stand on the otherside.

Idiot Son: Not enough people in singapore, because of your stop-at-2 fault. How, how, papa?

Papa: “No big no small”. Use your brain, go outside and get new blood

Idiot Son: How to attract them to come here, they don’t want to do NS?

Papa: Then no NS for new blood, pleasant can complain, but who cares. I already train the pleasant to fear us!

Idiot Son: long live the emperor!

113) Fighter
“Clearly his intention of his speech is to stand on the side of the PRs”

There is a word to describe people who put foreigners’ interests above their countrymen’s and sell key infrastructure power stations to foreigners compromising our country’s defense. The word is “trai*or”.

Now Singapore can be defeated easily if the foreigners destroy the power stations they owned. The worse part is they have a right to do so.

Do you think there is morale in the SAF anymore when so many cannot afford housing and living, kenna jobs snatched and have to protect 34% foreigners some more?

The feeling is mutual. He does not want to be my PC. I don’t want to be his soldier. knn.

For those who think that PM’s point is valid, please do consider the following points (pls bare with me cause some of the points have already been stated by other forummers above)

1) Spore’s govt deemed that the current NS population is enough to serve the purpose of defending the country if every NS personal perform 2 years of NS. However, out of the almost 3.7mil of Sporeans and PRs, how many of those are actually “true blue” Singaporean that are eligible for NS? If those “uneligible” PRs and Sporeans serve NS as well, can I say that our NS population will increase accordingly, and hence, reduce the NS liability of all Singaporeans?

2) Perhaps the PM can release official figures of the breakdown of our PRs and new citizens. How many percent of these actually falls above the 30 yrs old range? As far as I know, a significant number of PRs are those that study in our Unis and Polys… If those that above 30 years old are not “suitable” for NS, then how about these people? I suppose our PM coveniently forgets that many of our new citizens and PRs are those that are below 30 years old.

3) As for those above 30 years old, if those are not suitable for NS, how about those SIngaporeans that are suppose to serve reservist till 40 years old? How about those Sporeans who are above 30 and deferred from NS… but are required to serve NS when they are back in Spore? If his above theory holds true, should they be exempted from NS as well?

4) Even if these new citizens are not suitable to serve NS as a soldier, how about assigning other roles such as public services for them? I remember recently Tampines GRC trying many means to try to integrate these new citizens into our society. What is a better way to integrate these people than doing public services?

To SpitOnTheFace

“The feeling is mutual. He does not want to be my PC. I don’t want to be his soldier. knn”

Thats is a great one… I absolutely second that!!!

If there should be a war in SG, any man may he be above 30 should pick up a stone or rifle to protect his own motherland.

Any human, woman or child, but I strongly doubt, our fellow foreign talents, will standby this piece of soil.

By not enlisting the foreigners, simply states, they will not defend the country, they will leave when our country is in danger as they do not know how use a rifle. No basic millitary training at all. So we locals have to be recalled and protect foreigners while they take away our rice bowls? Am I such a saint to protect my enemy? I just know now, who is my enemy, lowering my wages, bring minimum amount to feed my family? I cannot bring myself to protect rice bowl snatchers…..

The first one to kill in the war when I get my rifle will be aiming at the enemies or foreign talents???

I love my motherland, but it is stained by foreign feet for the cause of growth, the obessed idea of moving forward, money… it is everything, what about love for fellow singaporeans, and our own motherland, and national flag.

I felt sad and doubtful now picking up my rifle in reservist, protecting my nation.

118) ilovemyself
“The first one to kill in the war when I get my rifle will be aiming at the enemies or foreign talents???”

Small grammatical error maybe? “or” change to “/” and “???” change to “!!!”

Small logical error maybe? How can we shoot the people who will MIA and desert us at the least sign of trouble?

Small reasoning error maybe? Considering the apparent PAP’s willingness to increase foreigner population at the expense of local population to boost their votes, what makes you think we will even get … a rifle? More locals die, get more foreigners to replace us loh, they will say.

I share your pain, fellow brothers. If we feel this way, do you think any NSF or NSmen feel much different? The SAF without morale, the Singapore without a national identity, are nothing more than a paper tiger….ahem paper lion.

”If we make them do NS—–we will not get the people we want”
So—-what type of people do you want. Free loaders that will ship out at the first sign of troubles?
——those that come to thoroughly milk the system in peace time—including priority for scholarship, schools, jobs_ HDB___?
In fact, the reverse is true—if they have to do NS—you get only truly COMMITED citizens.
You must think that true blue are really stupid.Do you think that we will accept the fact that ONLY SOME need to do COMPULSORY NS.
10 million (2 months of your salary) for NIC—to forget this fact—what a joke!!!!

Our PM really did not do much since the 2006 GE.

He has been busy and frequently cutting ribbons

“PM Lee launches Kallang River-Bishan Park project”

and also squeezing more $ from the aveage Singaporean eg Mean Testing.

Feel sad to have such a PM.

Methinks no point to haf so many army vocation.
1 is enuff.
Best vocation is intepreter. Looking at history,
If wartime we all work as intepreter, nextime oso got chance rule Singapore!

Bangla anyone!?!

Do you think BG LHL is capable to lead a army?

The first sight of contact …. he would go missing ….. like the MSK case…. he want missing …….our generals are really and actually “GENERALS” they cant lead us into battle….. cause they will need their booklet to teach them how to enage for every situation encountered….. in books I am sure they will scoreA1 , but in a real like battle …….no prized for guessing here.

LHL is also insulting our PR’s indriectly, its a double edge sword for him.
Not a very smart move…..

If war really comes , i’ll give up my pink IC, earn from just being born on the island and I will fled with my fellow “Singaporeans” back to China.. No pt keeping this island of sin as a independent nation.

@121) Peter Tan on October 4th, 2009 12.59 am

My thoughts exactly when I saw him giving that speech on Kallang River-Bishan Park. Imagine million$ salary and our PM is using his time kissing the ass of every foreigner in effort to get them to come, get integrated, pay taxes and likely to vote for him in elections.

Not too long ago, didn’t the same mouth said about “…. the interests of Singaporeans will always come first.”? Guess he meant only first class S’poreans like ministers and their associated cronies. If you are 30s, 40s, or 50s — forgot it. If your are 60s, 70s, 80s, pls get out of his face and go to Johor.

There is only one word to describe his leadership : PATHETIC!
Look at where and how he’s been leading us since the last election
The highest paid govt leader in the world yet giving one of the lowest values
to citizens.
Only his father and the local MSMs think highly of him
If our msms were independent, I am sure he and his party wouldn’t last
the present term.

Mr PM,

how can you make slaves of your own locally born citizens to serve the self-centred interests of foreigners? Despicable!

Singapore seems to be the only country in the world with 1st class PRs & 3rd class citizens.

119)

I know who I’ll be shooting at when I pick up my rifle to defend Singapore, all those traitors that have betrayed us Singaporeans. And I hope that every operationally ready NS man does the same. Our enemies are in our midst.

I felt that our efforts here will come to waste as they hold the ultimate trump card – HDB flats.

Think about it, with high HDB flats, even before recent price hikes, can only be sold higher when people retire more than 20 years later, when there are more people around.

Simple supply and demand concepts will tells you that without 6.5 millions “foreign talents and PRs”, prices of HDB flats are going to drop decades from now, especially now is unlike 20 years ago, when price is only 8 times annual salary but many times.

It takes time from real and nominal wages of average Singaporeans to go up.

Assets enhancements may well be what they intended and not a mistake, so that they can use HDB flats to hold us ransom to votes.

When you vote opposition, NO 6.5 millions “foreign talents and PRs”, no one or many is going to buy your HDB flats when you retire.

But when you vote PAP, fuck things as mentioned here in this and other social-political blogs will continue.

Not to mention reverse mortgage, the recent ongoing court case shows that it is very depend on market prices, hence, those senior citizens who subscribe to it will have to vote for “6.5 millions foreign talents and PRs” in order to sustain the high prices. Like that can also buy votes from senior citizens.

Extending the idea of estate upgrading.

massivelosses_sohow? on October 3rd, 2009 8.46 am

said that “PM Lee was a recruit who could not run or do pull up, did not pass IPPT but they sent him to OCS and he became the youngest BG”.

Is that true? How did “massivelosses_sohow” know that?

Better verify sources and play safe.

let give REFORM and WP a chance atleast 2 GRC and 2 SMC
It will wake up PAP for the next 5 years to do good for singaporean

“said that “PM Lee was a recruit who could not run or do pull up, did not pass IPPT but they sent him to OCS and he became the youngest BG”.”

“Better verify sources and play safe. ”

Yeah true, in case Daddy and team sue TOC or the poster for defamation into bankruptcy.

commentator,

they are already treating native citizen so,

EXTRACT- http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/09/handicapped-resident-applies-for-aid-with-mp-but-faces-difficulties/comment-page-1/#comment-108063

35) YOUgetWHATyouVOTEDfor on October 3rd, 2009 11.22 am EXTRACTED -

NoOneWillBeLeftBehind-BUT-SomeWillJustBeLeftAsideToDie on Fri, 2nd Oct 2009 1:59 pm

The public needs the 2 elite MPs to come down from their ‘Ivory Tower’ to answer the below.

MP Ms Ho Gek Choo [Boon Lay], WHY YOU DIDN’T ANSWER EMAIL CONCERNING ONE OF YOUR NEEDY/DISABLED RESIDENT NEEDING HELP?
http://happyangelclub.wordpress.com/

MP in-charge of Jalan Besar town council, DID YOU HELP OUT ONE OF YOUR NEEDY UNEMPLOYED/HANDICAP RESIDENT, OTHER THAN BROUGHT HIM TO COURT OVER $400PLUS IN CONSERVACY ERREARS?
[Is Ms Denise Phua the MP in-charge of Jalan Besar town council?]
http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking+News/Singapore/Story/STIStory_351577.html

Weak, coward, selfish and kiasi, and taken advantage by foreigners and rulers. That summarised the whole bunch of Singaporeans. Talk is cheap..

Slut-a-pore GAME OVER ! gg (good-game).

“”PM Lee “would not like” to be your platoon commander if you’re 30, 40, 50 years old”"

He said that?

hmmm…. i would be really Disappointed if he said that. I mean, a leader should not want to be leader even if i am 30/50 years young. Reservists are this age . What if War breaks?

Who will be the commando in chief?

singaporean are just a bunch of low life whiners. They only knows how to complain and in the end still accepting what is shove up their @ss. Since you people are such brainless zombies, we FT have no choice but to accept what your government offer us, cheap protection in the form of NS… while you are at it, please keep the country safe and sound while I work my way up the corporate ladder… hahaha

Let’s see. so our PM is afraid that NS will scare away foreign talent…

But has he realised that NS is also a major factor in scaring away local talent? In fact, it is always a major reason why families immigrate, and many of them are the cream of singapore’s crop. Their dearth is the reason the PAP is importing so many foreign leeches, to fill the talent vacuum.

NS has done so much destruction to singapore. Any 2-bit intelligent person will realise that.

correctional : . I mean, a leader should not say he donche want to be leader for soldiers aged 30/50 years young. This can affect morale of soldiers who are “ready to strike” or willing to protect singapore “with our lives”.

leader should lead the charge.

If PRs are not willing to sacrifice for singapore, what are they here for?

I mean, sacrifice in terms of defending the country.
I mean, they do get to enjoy a lot of benefits the same level that is hard to find elsewhere right?

Fortunately, singaporeans donche mind. They kia si kia su kia sai but deep down they only kpkb secretly without anyone hearing it in public. deep down they are more Compliant than Complain, more Kuai than Kia.

After glancing through the stories of people in Singapore not knowing what our National Anthem means, I wonder how many of the PRs and FT who work and live in Singapore embraces the same spirit of the anthem or even cares what it means, unfortunately even Singaporeans themselves don’t know what it means. An issue that concerns even more. I had my country’s name Singapura on both my shoulders for more than 10 years. I would like to think it was worth for something. I had men of different races and social backgrounds working together, breaking their backs and sacrificing theirs and their family’s time for the good of this country. A country whose leaders would rather have the red carpet rolled out for others and pull the rugs under their own people. If we’ve gone through all of these sacrifices for our country, to be called Singaporeans, the least is to show respect and gratitude. To say that you’d rather be a PC of the children of all the PRs and FTs, other than the fathers born from this land is disrespectful and disgraceful. I rather have mud thrown on my face. If I ever I had to face an aggressor, I would be more than ready to do it for my Singapura, but it would not be under this government.

#139, but the anthem is it an Aspiration or Inspiration?

For those who have read about Israel military, you will know that in Israel, no soldier will be left behind whether dead or alive. The Israel government will at all cost bring back the body of any dead Isreal soldiers to the deceased family while on duty.

One such example here reported from BBC : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5129410.stm

I believe this could be one the reasons why against all odd Israel won the legendary war The Six-Day War of June 5-10, 1967.

Here in Singapore, I think this shit government will think that it will not cost effective. Everything for this shit PAP government is money, money and more money. You die your problem who ask you to be so stupid! It will give you a state ceremony and 3 blanks bullets which will cost a lot lesser.

LHL *pui*
PAP *pui* *pui*

Looks like it is really sinful to grow old in Singapore. Seems to me the moment you hit 40 years old, you are no longer useful and worse still no longer wanted. All talks about re-employment for older workers up to the age of 65 seems to me is a big BS. Why can’t a physically fit, strong and experience soldier above the age of 40 become an effective and efficient platoon commander ?. If this is true, than many platoon commanders above the age of 40 and holding the rank of WO, Snr WO, MWO would have retired long ago. The fact is that, these so called old folks are still holding the fort and contributing to the country’s safety and security. So, please don’t degrade those that are above 40.

To serve is a matter of pride and honour, be it in the military or politics. To serve your own people has been considered as a duty and duty to country. When I was 18, I serve with all my pride and went to OCS and eventually became a PC in an active unit. Till now, I am still serving my ICTs and IPPTs with the many good men / friends that I have come to serve with.

But in recent years, I wonder what am I really protecting? Am I really protecting my family and friends or some MNC multi-billion dollar investments in Singapore or the lives of all these FT.

Today, the pride and honour to serve has been replaced by the need to compensate for monetary losses. This rot is seen right from the top of our political and civil service compensation structure. Being in political service is not seen as an honourable thing to do but we have to compensate these people adequately, otherwise we would lose them to the private sectors.

At the same time, many of my PR friends who come from developing countries say that I am naive to think that pride and honour are sustainable in our current world. They feel that it just open more doors for corruption like what goes on in their third world countries.

But are we a third world country or a first world nation?

i wonder can we cope with a massive riot of foreigners, should there be one, with the rate of influx, social problems will be rife…coz the so call foreign talents seems to be getting more arrogant

Mmm….in the past, we can force ourselves to believe that we are serving NS to protect our family.

Now, the people are serving NS to protect our dear leaders, their assets and this foreigners…

and sorry, based on equity, singaporeans are way too under equity even compared to the foreigners…while our dear leaders are way over equity for their “talent”

Thanks to PAP and PM Lee, GV’s promotion now discriminates Singaporeans in favour of Chinese nationals, in Singapore ???!!!

http://www.gv.com.sg/promodetails/gv…tions_2585.jsp

This is disgusting and really getting on my nerves. This is the result of PAP’s pro-foreigner’s policy. Private Companies are following closely PM Lee now.

All Singaporeans, please boycott Golden Village cinemas!

http://www.gv.com.sg/promodetails/gv_promotions_2585.jsp

I wondered what will happened if this scenario was in reverse and the promotions was done in china for singapore citizens only…

I am sure there will be a riot and the cinema burn to the ground…Thanks GV,you have just lost a long time singaporean customer.

Foreigners don’t have to serve national service but locals do!!!!!
This is discrimination. Absolute discrimination against its citizens.
I don’t believe that there are many Singaporeans who accept the BS for this discrimination and continue to vote for them. What’s wrong with these people.
Other and RC members who enjoy many benefits, the rest of Singaporeans should wise up and vote for Change.

TAKE THAT SINGAPOREANS!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlKJg0jfJAk&feature=player_embedded#

check out around 1minute point…This is who our NS men that are protecting…WELL DONE…more good years!

Let us not blame the Chinese FT or for that matter all other FT/FW for coming here to earn a decent living. We should blame the people who allows them to come in so easily. And who allows them to come so easily in the first place?. If other countries were to have such an open immigration policy, I am quite sure thousands of them will also flock to these countries. We need to blame ourselves or at least 66.6% of the population for giving them the mandate to open the floodgate for FT/FW to come. I have mentioned earlier, Sporeans by and large certainly don’t mind immigrants who are real talent and can add value to our lives and to SG in general. But certainly not any Tom, Dick and Harry who add misery and burden to our lives.

Jane Goo

post #129 on October 4th, 2009 11.12 am

////Is that true? How did “massivelosses_sohow” know that?

Better verify sources and play safe.////

SAF camps do not allow video recordings or photography, so no records = no sources.

its like i say my camp is haunted but cannot shoot videos or take photos to prove, but that does not mean there are no ghost/s in my camp. :P

I read on another blog that a Chinese national and Singapore Permanent Resident by the name of Zhang Yuanyuan humiliated Singapore publicly on China’s CCTV by flashing her NRIC on the screen and subsequently declared her undivided loyalty to her motherland, China!

Fact is there are many like her. Have the present leaders no shame? Are they willing to be humiliated as long as it will increase their salary.

Singaporeans better think long and hard, not about their future but the future of their children. Time to vote for Change.

what to do, some people have such strong familee ties back in China…

when there are such ties, it automatically makes some more equal than others. meritocracy? selectively practiced at best, at worse? go guess guess loh…

Mice is nice….

Does it mean that this is all about ghost talk?
That’s interesting.

I read an interesting comment / alternative view elsewhere on the same topic,

“i think this is being dragged way out of context. if you bother to read the article, what PM lee was saying is that it is not feasible to draft in PR and new residents of first generations, ie foreigners who arrived from the 1980s and 90s into the army now, because and i quote : ” we would not get the people we wanted” , meaning if you draft them in right now, you’re going to send people in their 30s, 40s, get them to tekong on a boat and shave them bald. what sense is there in training them.

which leads on to his second sentence on ” i would not like to be their platoon commander”. To all who commented, reacted in anger, put yourself in a pulau tekong plt commander shoes, and ask are you willing to command a platoon of 30s, 40s, freshly shaven RECRUITS who probably had no prior military training, not in prime physical state, and asking them to do route marches, soc, 2.4km runs. Can you motivate them? Or even wake them up at 5.30 every morning to do 5BX. will they listen to us young 20 somethings fresh 2nd Lieutenants?

So from the original meaning of asking first generations PR to do NS, it has become PM not wanting to be platoon commander of NSmen in their 30s. A total contortion of everything, when there isn’t even the faintest mention of NSmen within the paragraph, or the article

Quoting one sentence out of one article has dragged it totally out of the context”

Good to hear both sides of the story and various interpretations.

152) New Era on October 4th, 2009 5.17 pm

Yes New Era…I have posted the news at 149)…

As for 150) Retired And Poor on October 4th, 2009 5.11 pm … TOTALLY AGREE with you.
It’s not the FT/PRC fault,It’s the gahment policy of getting every Tom,Dick and harry into a tiny island and having everyone to struggle to fight for a job and school.

155) Jane Goo on October 4th, 2009 5.46 pm …Nobody is asking the Gahment to enlist pot-bellied PR to become Red beret commandos to charge up hills and paracute from helicopters…What we want is equal playing fields…NS doesnt mean carrying a rifle and digging trenches, though that is what most singaporeans army boys would have to do one way of another in their NS service…
NS can mean other things like civil defense, public services etc etc…
Gahment idea is that we don’t need PR for NS but locals…while the localsget disrupted for reservist training,The PR is taking over the job…and that’s the reality of life facing the singaporeans.
The policy of having companies to comply with letting local go of for reservist training and getting compensated is bullcrap…Bosses hate staff going for reservists or mobilaisation cos it disrupt businesses and on going projects…now that’s the reality…
It is not taken out of context…like what the graffiti says which i saw many years back on a toilet wall ” JOBS for PR…NS for locals”…is coming true!

Dear All

Militarily he is correct. I have to agree with Jane and her writer on this, 30 plus early thirties is not the age for training Fresh Troops which is what national service is all about. Train them Young, and let them get more experienced as they age through ICTs etc.

Thanks

Locke

Heard this……..not sure if it is true. I read it in some other website. Someone here, pls confirm this. Heard that children of PRs won’t be serving NS soon ? is it true ?

Dear lockeliberal, Its idiots like u who pi$$es me off the most.

Its like PAP telling us we need FW becos they do the work Sporeans don’t like to do… If that is the case…then what are all the IT staff from india doing here ? What are all the sales staff from pino doing here ? Its like using the example of FW doing construction work and then grouping all the white collar FTs with FWs and then justify their existance here….. give me a break.

People are not saying send them to army ….cos we all know these FTs got no balls. We just think why can’t they do other sort of NS like checkpoint immigration staff..ambulance driver…all those “easier form of work”.

I know children of PR have to do NS now…..is this being changed ?

http://news.asiaone.com/News/AsiaOne%2BNews/Singapore/Story/A1Story20091002-171274.html
/*************************************************************/
“Dialogue participants suggested making NS mandatory for children of PRs to ensure a level playing field for all young people here.

But PM Lee rejected this, saying that doing so would scare away potential citizens. He added that each year, several hundred children of new Singaporeans and PRs elect to serve NS.”
/*******************************************/

Full story

A DIALOGUE between Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong and around 200 women from various women’s organisations yesterday focused on an arguably male-centric issue – national service.

Of the 10 women who spoke, six rose to debate whether NS should be made compulsory for women and children of new citizens and permanent residents, and whether it disadvantaged men, at the People’s Association Women’s Integration Network Council dialogue.

Asked whether Singapore women are disadvantaged as, unlike men, they do not receive NS allowances as part of their pay, PM Lee assured the mainly female audience that career advancement for men and women alike would depend on the individual’s ability.

Allowances for Singapore men who have completed NS are to ensure that they are not left behind when they start work after their two-year army stint and to compensate for their time in reservist training, he said.

NS should not be made compulsory for women for the sake of career advancement, he said.

“The purpose of national service is to have an operationally ready Singapore Armed Forces.”

Dialogue participants suggested making NS mandatory for children of PRs to ensure a level playing field for all young people here.

But PM Lee rejected this, saying that doing so would scare away potential citizens. He added that each year, several hundred children of new Singaporeans and PRs elect to serve NS.

Before opening the floor to questions, PM Lee spoke on employment opportunities here and stressed the need for women to return to the workforce after having children.

He urged companies to be more supportive by adopting flexi-work schemes, and husbands to help with housework and bringing up the children.

He also said that the Government hopes to announce in two weeks whether the Jobs Credit Scheme – the $4.5 billion, one-year scheme to help employers retain local workers during the recession – would be extended beyond this year.

Everyone appreciates the importance of a strong defence. I believe the government cares but in one way or another, they are not connected to the daily lives of folks in the street. Most of the ministers did not have to experience the pain of balancing NS, family and work in one-go during that 2 weeks of in-camp training (ICT). There was one ICT during the period of the financial meltdown, I have bankers with me in my camp. They were closely monitoring their blackberries by the hours, and after dismissal at abt 10pm, they would have to go back to work and clear their email. One told me that he would only sleep at 2am, and to wake up at 6am to start the next day in camp. Another told me jokingly that when he returned to office, his things could be packed in a box, and he may be asked to leave, as retrenchment fear was high then. And i am sure there are more stories out there that NSmen are suffering quietly.

I am currently serving my NS at the age of 39. I hope to feel proud when i am contributing to national service. But most of the time, I am not engaged, as roles are not clear and defined. During exercise, there are always many NSmen spending time waiting wondering what would be next. Regulars who drive the show did not fully engage the NSmen to make them feel proud that they are spending time doing some honorable and meaningful. We are even told blatantly that we are there to clock high keys, and they are helping us to meet these requirements so that we can go into MINDEF reserve. As a citizen, I do not mind being treated as a digit but do not ask me to come back to just clock high key, sit around, and pretend to be contributing. I like to spend meaningful time doing something meaningful.

I hope the comments by PM Lee is a genuine mistake. He should come out and clarify his statement. Spending more money does not mean a strong defence. Engaging the NSmen, who forms the main bulk of fighting force, is a force multiplier that the annual S$11.4b cannot have. Engage the NSmen with words and deeds from Ministers to MPs to Regular servicemen. The country depends on all the leaders to get this right. I can see the support for defence waning quickly. We have to do the right things, not the convenient things.

Good Zhang Yuan Yuan from China study in Singapore get a blue PR IC and left!!! Sad sad… what a policy from the gahman….

A hornet’s nest has been disturbed by the PM and he is acting blur.

Well, this issue can only get worse as the govt forces S’poreans to accept a 6.5 million people population.

Acting blur after screwing up with those remarks is not going to make the issue go away, Mr Prime Minister.

Like a dish that is TASTELESS,, we PRs are the “SPICE”
and if we are the ‘SPICE’ that adds taste and “VALUE”to the dish,
who are the ‘tasteless bunch??
Ha!!Ha!!!!
Please remember these words are from your own PM!!

I think they are damn worry that these FTs and PR are so talented and cannot be “command” by our local Platoon Command. Eventually these FTs and PRs take over command. Who know one of these days FTs and PRs will eventually take over the MINDEF and overthrown the PAP like they do in Thailand!
That is probably the real reason the FTs and PRs do not need to do NS regardless of young or old!
Why not introduce the FTs and PRs into the PAP party, maybe we can attract world top brains to complete with our Ministers too! Maybe that will help to deflate the over paid ministers and mps pay.

Those PRs in their 30,40s dont necessarily have to serve in combat roles what. I would think age brings with it a certain level of maturity and worldiness no?

Also, LHL as a BG should know the importance of supply lines and backline support. Logistics – getting food, clothes, and spare parts to the front – is often what makes or breaks a conflict. Just ask Napoleon in his winter campaign of 1812.

isnt it abit too late in the night for you to be using the interwebs RICHChinesePR? given you have to go work the fields planting rice or sommat tomorrow.

We are utterly disappointed with this comment:
By Elevating one group of people (PRs),describing them as the “Spice” the PM has undermined another group (Singaporeans:the “Mix” breed).
This comment has certainly exposed his thoughts and gives hint to his future political direction.
Having felt hurt by this insensitive comment, it is only understandable that
Singaporeans look towards the Opposition for alternatives.
While we are aware that the Opposition has always been suppressed, it is now
that we have an established reason to give the Opposition a chance to
grow.
Indeed we see an urgency to seek alternatives, for we fear it may come a time
when the PRs will be given voting rights.

164) RICHChinesePR on October 4th, 2009 9.02 pm

I would just say welcome here, bring it on. See what you have.

Locals talents brighter than foreign talents?

Bring it on.

To TOC, this is what I mean 1-sided view in this website.

I hardly see any good comments about this country that we live in, if any so far. I count myself lucky to live a comfortable life here, comfortable. So why would I bash the government for giving me a nice safe home? This doesn’t mean I am a die-hard PAP either.

Let me tell you 1 good thing about Singapore that is hardly reported as far as i am concerned. Its strong stable exchange rate. This allows me to travel to many countries for holidays. This is what I enjoyed being a Singaporean, holding the Singapore currency. A few years back the exchange rate of USD to SGD is consistently 1.79 range and I say consistently. Today if you check its 1.4. Even when we talk about the Japan Yen, the rate did not fluctuate. Here we are talking about powerful nations, I have not even mentioned developing nations like Thailand or Malaysia.

A strong stable exchange rate is also something that many Singaporeans take for granted in terms of going overseas for studies, migrating to other countries to live, going for holidays and going overseas to work. How can you achieve that if our currency is weak and unstable?

Bye for now, hope to be back.

#169,

Some Singaporeans don’t even have chance to go holiday unless you mean the jungles of Brunei.

#169

Are you a civi servant or from the PAP? The MSM is totally one-sded too. The PAP controls the MSM who dare not write the slightest negative thing about the PAP.

You sounds very insensitive, like our PM. Many Singaporeans are struggling with unemployment or rising cost of living. And you are rejoicing on using the SGD to do shopping overseas!

I heard that depending on the units served, our NS boys do get to go to places like Taiwan, Thailand, Australia and South Africa for training (with 1.5 days of R&R). No longer limited to the jungles of Brunei.

I suppose a stable and strong exchange rate does help, still.

you go lor.

Thank you very much, Mr Prime Minister, for letting us know how much you really value us, NSmen who are already past 30, 40 and 50 years old.

Don’t worry Dear Mr Prime Minister, Sir. We (my 3 brothers and I) who are now over 30 years old will not give you any trouble to lead us in battle as a platoon commander, nor as a Brigadier General, nor as the Commander-in-Chief.

When the time comes we will readily get out of your sight and join the other side. We are quite sure that will be a pleasure to you and your kind. We can guess in advance that you would be telling your side-kicks “Good riddance to bad rubbish”, is it not?

Jane Goo

post #154 on October 4th, 2009 5.41 pm

////Does it mean that this is all about ghost talk?
That’s interesting. ////

things that 1 cannot prove with good solid evidence is like ghost hunting.

RICHChinesePR

post #164 on October 4th, 2009 9.02 pm

////Like a dish that is TASTELESS,, we PRs are the “SPICE”
and if we are the ‘SPICE’ that adds taste and “VALUE”to the dish,
who are the ‘tasteless bunch??
Ha!!Ha!!!!
Please remember these words are from your own PM!!////

this is where you rich people do not understand. the not so rich eat to live, the rich (like you) live to eat.

waste earth’s resources.

Jane Goo, you are so intent on serving your political masters that you easily shut your eyes to the tens of thousands of your fellow Singaporeans who have lost their jobs and are now struggling to put food on the table. Many thousands more are not able to pay their PUB bills and have to live in darkness.

Jane Goo, shame on you.

Dear PM Lee,

Neither would I, a NSman in my 30s, want someone like you to be my platoon commander.

Regards,
Your obedient soldier

86) KS on October 3rd, 2009 2.25 pm
If LHL was my PC, he would be the first enemy I’d shoot.

Luckily Sg do not licensed any weapons like guns and rifles ownerships or you will see alot of casualties these days.

Jane Goo

post #172 on October 4th, 2009 10.08 pm

////I heard that depending on the units served, our NS boys do get to go to places like Taiwan, Thailand, Australia and South Africa for training (with 1.5 days of R&R). No longer limited to the jungles of Brunei.

I suppose a stable and strong exchange rate does help, still.////

you make it sound like NS guys are there to R&R for 2 weeks.

when some men back home have a family to worry about they are only re-imbursed for the amount they earn. if these men earn little they have little disposible income.

its a very different story if NSmen are paid “market rate” similiar to armed forces in other 1st world countries, which should be the case. why so? if nation security is that important, surely they cannot be underpaid, right?

tiredsingaporean

post #179 on October 4th, 2009 10.41 pm

////Luckily Sg do not licensed any weapons like guns and rifles ownerships or you will see alot of casualties these days.////

true, just that true blue S’poreans are “casualties” of economic & whatever policies are currently in place to disadvantage locals…. :?

I feel sorry for the families of the young NS men who have died during their NS training all these years who have yet to live a full life…
Apart from getting $2000 compensation from Mindef (that was the going rate when I was in service,Not sure if it’s still the same)…we now have the PM spitting and defecating on their graves.

169) Ghim Moh resident on October 4th, 2009 9.35 pm

Ghim Moh resident, I am sure you must be a civil servant and must have also went for some expensive oversea cooking class too. Is it the IN thing to do for civil servants now. A recent survey also shows that the civil servants are a happy lot of people. Good for you.

A strong Singapore currency is only good for people like you who has lots of spare money to spend. What good is a strong Singapore currency to Singaporeans who do not have enough money to spend?

The Singapore MSM is a well known mouth piece for the PAP. I only read about negative reports on opposition party and all the good stuff about the PAP from them.

LHL said out loudly

if you are 30s, 40s and 50s, your job is to pay taxes, and stop thinking what u have contributed to SAF

Ref: 155) Jane Goo on October 4th,

Hello Jane
A PM job need to have political sensitive and sensible in speech, this is not the first time he mis-spoke

Recall that in 2006, PAP blow the James Gomez saga out of proportion, we can also said that Gomez’ words were taken out of context.

But Gomez was only a opposition candidate, at the time, MM Lee called into his integrity and Gomez wassummoned to Police station for questioning for “delibration to discredit Election Dept officials “.

Now , our Dear PM Lee mis-psoke AGAIN, why are u so forgiving and be double standard ?

U are another blind PAP royalist

Ref: 155) Jane Goo on October 4th,

Hello Jane
A PM job need to have political sensitive and sensible in speech, this is not the first time he mis-spoke

Recall that in 2006, PAP blow the James Gomez saga out of proportion, we can also said that Gomez’ words were taken out of context.

But Gomez was only a opposition candidate, at the time, MM Lee called into his integrity and Gomez wassummoned to Police station for questioning for “delibration to discredit Election Dept officials “.

Now , our Dear PM Lee mis-spoke AGAIN, why are u so forgiving and being double standard ?

U are another blind PAP royalist

169) Gim Moh Resident

“To TOC, this is what I mean 1-sided view in this website.
I hardly see any good comments about this country that we live in, if any so far. I count myself lucky to live a comfortable life here, comfortable. So why would I bash the government for giving me a nice safe home?
A strong stable exchange rate is also something that many Singaporeans take for granted in terms of going overseas for studies, migrating to other countries to live, going for holidays and going overseas to work. ”

You really think our currency is strong? Think again! Malaysia ringgit also very strong, practically unchanged like Singapore so are you saying their gov very good? This kind of childish comment would surfaced in P65 blog.

Of course, the Singapore Gov should be credited with some of the achievements. What we are saying right now is that our dear straight talker, clueless, insensitive and dumb PM has just make us feel so base. Are we cheap citizens? Third class or even last of all? Times are not good no matter how you look at it. Why cant he show some empathy towards fellow Singaporeans? Why say we are bland? They are the spice. And saying things like he dont want 30-50 years old under his command as a PC. What is WRONG WITH HIM? Hormones imbalanced? Maybe Health Minister should get our best PR doctors from INDIA and CHINA to treat him. Would n’t it be having the spice of your life?

FG

MS Goo
“which leads on to his second sentence on ” i would not like to be their platoon commander”. To all who commented, reacted in anger, put yourself in a pulau tekong plt commander shoes, and ask are you willing to command a platoon of 30s, 40s, freshly shaven RECRUITS who probably had no prior military training, not in prime physical state, and asking them to do route marches, soc, 2.4km runs. Can you motivate them? Or even wake them up at 5.30 every morning to do 5BX. will they listen to us young 20 somethings fresh 2nd Lieutenants?”

This is no excuse of not taking up the responsibilities as a citizen soldier. Are you saying that our SG males should be made to shoulder all these? Are our life a class below them? If the New 1st GEN Citizen cant wake up early to run and do 5BX, we SG males whether young or old should be doing instead. Are you dumb?
Maybe it is time we all should ask our females to be drafted in for a modified NS and served for 15 months. Let them feel it themselves. It is always good to stand afar and see the other side get burnt, let them see and hear for themselves. How crap NS is! I never fear to fight for my country but i believe in a high morale fighting force and citizen soldiers always played a crucial part in all SAF strategy. I really dont feel our citizen force is any more high in morale. The moment you think you are fighting for 1st Gen Citizen who had it free and easy…that snapped you out of all the nice slogans of SAF/SCDF and what faced you are job losses, high cost of living, high medical costs, high fees, no uni place, expensive housing and crowded transportation. Wake up Jane!

FG

161) Tony Tan
“I hope the comments by PM Lee is a genuine mistake. He should come out and clarify his statement. Spending more money does not mean a strong defence. Engaging the NSmen, who forms the main bulk of fighting force, is a force multiplier that the annual S$11.4b cannot have. Engage the NSmen with words and deeds from Ministers to MPs to Regular servicemen. The country depends on all the leaders to get this right. I can see the support for defence waning quickly. We have to do the right things, not the convenient things.”

We have to do the right things, not the convenient things

I like your last sentence. Our dear GOV only knows how to throw money at a problem as their only solution. Highly Talented Million dollar ministers…they are not fit to be one.

Dear Playboy

Look, I believe firstly that there should be greater differentiation between PR’s and Citizens and that especially Male Citizens should be favored in more areas aka Housing grants, or hospital benefits or hospital charges.

That is however a different case from me agreeing that PR’s should serve NS as we did when we were ninteen and eighteen and as they do right now.

One of the better suggestions was some from of NS, perhaps teachers, but even that in my view would not be good for my kids

Locke

I agree that most comments/postings on TOC is rather negative towards the establishment and I actually would like to see a balance of views, e.g. a ceratin Apek sometimes does put up some counter-arguments with credible data or info (though it doesn’t means I agree with his views).

Also, I think it is wrong to single out specific sites like TOC as a hotbed for anti-estab views — look at every blog site, including the official REACH, and it is obvious that there are more unhappy postings than happy ones.

My point is if anyone wish to rebuke the majority views herein, pls do so with credible facts. I think everyone is reasonable to reasons. As to the posts thus far by “Ghim Moh resident” and “Jane Goo”, I can only say: What the F*** are you both talking about?!

Ghim Moh resident: foreign exchange
Jane Goo: training in places

You both mean having a stable X-rate and SAF-sponsored R&Rs are sufficient compensation to NS/reservist males for 2.5 + 13 years of their time, efforts, commitment and dedication? Sounds like the fixature on GDP to me, like everything can and is reduced to monetary terms.

1) Did or did not our PM said that the interests of Singaporeans will always be first? Pls show proof of this statement thus far against treatment for PRs. Don’t tell us he was misquoted or taken out of context?

2) $10 millions is to be spent to integrate the PRs and new citizens. How much is spent each year integrating the thousands of NSmen that have ROD back into the mainstream society? My own experience is that after ROD, I was left completely on my own to try and fit back into the commerical and/or educational worlds. Absolutely ZERO help from the govt.

3) Show the deliberate economical advantage(s)/policies that a person that had served NS/reservist will have over those those that had not served, e.g. preference in employment, higher wages, ICTs will not affect opportunities for career advancement, etc.

Ghim Moh resident and Jane Goo, over to you both…. show us that you both are talking with brains and not just mouthpieces trying to divert everyone’s attention for the issues at hand.

Start FT platoons.

Train them in shock troop tactics.

They will be the point men and if need to they will charge with fixed bayonets and engage in hand to hand fighting.

Then they have truly earned their PR.

i am a doer. I do not just preach.

I was in SAF on employment pass. I served and then I applied and was granted citizenship.

But, military service was not new to me as my father served as a volunteer of FMSVF and defended Malaya and Singapore in 1941-42.

I followed in his footsteps.

#12 Pinky Lee….
I was just thinking of writing the same words…and there you are ..hehehe….

WoW what a leader we have….and more so, he was a BG in the army…hehehe

Looks like during wartime, our million dollar PM will not be around….cos most of the NS men will be at least 40.

Alamak…this is trouble.

I am replying to Men in the Tank 182

Some NS men who died during training need not have died.

Some of them died from ill-treatment. To cut a long story short at least severa; cases can be cited.

The latest is the Commando Dunking Saga.
Disgusting and shameful and it was part of realistic training.

It was a case of being cloudy and blurred over ill-treatment and military training.

All these could have been stopped years ago but the cycle of ill-treatment dragged on.

The SAF has a security unit and what were they doing? It is obvious they were sleeping or they just wanted it to go on.

So a Singaporean who doesn’t live in fear of job loss is not a real Singaporean?

What a lame-ass attitude to have. If I can appreciate the value of a strong SGD and spend it abroad, it is my own business.

How does that link back to whether I am being “true-blue” Singaporean or not? Isn’t conception of citizenship and degree of identity partly a construct that changes meaning over time?

So if I am not suffering, I’m not a Singaporean eh.

Thanks ah.

“Also can do NS by serving as security guards, construction workers, hawker centres table cleaners, HDB cleaners, and similar jibs Singaporeans shun. Recommended period same as NS. 2 years full time followed by ICT for 14 years cycle”: KopitiamApek

Jokes aside, I think this is a great idea that can be worked on. Tie it in with our graying population. Since there is going to be a lot of old folks in the years to come, get these PRs to do National Service in Old Folks Homes, Nursing Homes & Hospices, or even Rehabilitation Hospitals.

It becomes easier for Singaporeans to accept these PRs when they start to show that they are serving their NS caring for our aged population who have contributed to nation building throughout their healthy years.

I am sure our million-dollar ministers can work something out from this.

What I can see is an immediate impact to three areas that will bring happiness to three groups of people: firstly, Singaporean males who have served or are serving NS; secondly, the government and its headache in caring for our aging society; and thirdly; Singaporean families who are being cared for by these PRs.

Talk about thinking-out-of-the-box; I think the problem lies in the numerous army generals in our political office, who, when it comes to National Service, cannot think of anything other that serving in the military forces. Surely, national service can come in many different forms; and it does not have to be confined to only the below 30s.

Most of all, it does not force upon anyone who does not like to lead, to do so.

Actually I find his statements very amusing, we should start a top ten list for him. I’m sure Mee Siam Mai Hum will be number one.

Hey! the feeling is mutual man! I don’t want you be to my platoon commander either! I don’t want to die, and i believe with your “calibre” you will lead me to our enemy den and get kill!

This quote is taken WAAAAAAY out of context. LHL was referring to the fact that it is next to impossible to get any immigration into Singapore if we expect a 45 year old bank manager to do NS, regardless of what form it might take (army, police, civil defence etc).

Whether we need such immigration is of course subject to debate and has been discussed many times here but really, LHL was referring to the fact that it is simply not feasible and he’s right (hell even a monkey can occasionally solve maths puzzles). Also imagine the problems a 21 year old platoon commander may face if his company has a few 30-40 year olds, who probably are unfit, cannot run SOC, and have wives and kids at home!

The last thing we need at this point is to give more ammo to the MIW, but judging from some of the knee jerk reactions of this board (including the person who posted the original article), they might be justified in thinking that Singaporeans are a bunch of whining complainers.

“hey might be justified in thinking that Singaporeans are a bunch of whining complainers.” Yes singaporean are whiner, but all this knee jerk reaction to every little “screw up” the government show that people are really pissed! really pissed!

Can you envision sacrificing and dying for this bunch of leaders on one hand and another bunch of PRs/new citizens, who do not have to defend themselves, their country and families, on the other?

While we slot out in NS they take it easy and even our jobs. Later, when we die in the battle fields, we create more job vacancies for them??????

Dear Singaporeans, this how our Govt, of 44 years has rewarded us for supporting them.

We must be idiots or fools. I think both. Let’s wake up and change things around before it is too late for ourselves and our children!

Dear New Era,

Keeping an open mind does not mean being a PAP loyalist.
Your name-calling is totally uncalled for.

Let’s not commit the same mistake as the PAP – not listening well to alternative views. If PAP is so perfect, we won’t be here sharing views and for some, frustrations.

Hades said “The last thing we need at this point is to give more ammo to the MIW, but judging from some of the knee jerk reactions of this board (including the person who posted the original article), they might be justified in thinking that Singaporeans are a bunch of whining complainers.”

Who cares what the MIW think? They will be out of a job soon.
We are voting for Change. It doesn’t matter what they do or think now.
Too late. The time for change has come and you, Hades, better start looking for a new political master. LOL.

Why is it that articles about MM Lee or PM Lee seems to draw so many comments (over 100 ) ?

They are so popular ?

To : Ghim Moh Resident

It is Superficial of you to view only from one perspective :the currency point of
view.
Is it a true reflection of the state of a society?
The society is a more complex entity than you thought.
I urge that you read more.

Ghim Moh resident at 169) and Jane Goo 169),

A strong exchange rate discourages foreign investments and dampens tourism. Not withstanding this, the favourable exchange rate will also constitute to the influx of foreigners thus leading to supression of wages and spiralling cost of living. The residual investments in the country will give little benefit to the locals because you can trust that the money earned by foreginers will be remit out of Singapore.

If the consolation of a strong exchange rate means getting more out of your overseas trips (or overseas cooking classes) to you both, I have nothing to say but to wish you all the best for your retirement.

yeah i feel sorry for those who died in NS. its such a horrible conscription to every PR in singapore, and because of this,jobs lost etc. Ricebowl hard to find/hard to secure. If you want to be a country prime minister/ minister and etc, you should be SERVING AND HELPING your citizens. WHY THE SALARIES OF YOU ALL ARE SO HIGH??? donating those to needy people should be your mindset if you are really SERVING the country. I am not saying our Pm andminister should work for free but their salaries is wAYYYYYYY off the mark. “TOGETHER, we can overcome all difficulties”. TRY TAKING THE SALARY OF A NEEDY PEOPLE AND I SEE YOU STILL CAN SAY THIS KIND OF RIDICULOUS REMARKS ANOT.

To: 160) Playboy_Rick on October 4th, 2009 7.57 pm

They have not amended the Enlistment Act. The male children of a first generation permanent resident are, liable for national service. However, I think it depends whether Central Manpower Base calls them up as well – I got no statistics or data to verify this – maybe TOC can help raise this question to CMPB.

Source: http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/non_version/cgi-bin/cgi_retrieve.pl?ctno=REVED-93

Enlistment Act (Chapter 93)

“person subject to this Act” means a person who is a citizen of Singapore or a permanent resident thereof and who is not less than 16 years and 6 months of age and not more than 40 years of age or, in the case of a person who —

(a) is an officer of the armed forces; or
(b) is skilled in an occupation which the Minister by notification in the Gazette designates as an occupation required to meet the needs of the armed forces,

not more than 50 years of age;

Source: http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1017.html

Singapore does not recognize dual nationality beyond the age of 21, and it strictly enforces universal national service (NS) for all male citizens and permanent residents. Male U.S. citizens who automatically acquired Singaporean citizenship are liable for Singapore national service (NS) once they reach the age of 18. Travel abroad of Singaporean males may require Singapore Government approval as they approach national service age and may be restricted when they reach sixteen-and-a-half years of age. Under Singaporean law, an individual who acquires Singaporean citizenship at birth retains that status even after acquiring the citizenship of another country, including U.S. citizenship.

Source: http://pressplacer.com/what-are-my-obligations-as-a-singapore-pr/2079

A first generation permanent resident is automatically exempt from national service. However, he will be required to register himself with the Central Manpower Base, if he is below 40 years of age, upon which he will receive an exemption notice. The male children of a first generation permanent resident are, however, liable for national service.

I do believe all of us interpret things differently and maybe there is hidden meaning that we don’t understand. I’m just curious on why people is so angry about Singapore government? They gave us so much and yet it seems like we are never satisfied with the work they’ve done. Exactly how many of us thank them? I’m standing at a neutral point of view.

Even myself was angry before but after standing in the middle of the busy roads, I discovered what we’ve now is because of capable leaders we have. They are our leaders but they are humans too. Maybe that statement he made was a mistake, but as said we are all humans. Look at the chaotic situations all over the world, and leaving in Singapore is a bless except for piling stress level. To me, PR or not serving NS does not matter at all. If you own a company, would you not think twice of who to employ?

This is just my point of view of discussion. :)

I still stand by my observations that if one isn’t seen to be suffering, apparently certain people believe that one does not deserve to be called a real Singaporean.

Utter BS. Singapore doesn’t belong to the poor alone.

To 209) Loyola on October 5th, 2009 11.13 am

I still stand by my observations that if one isn’t seen to be suffering, apparently certain people believe that one does not deserve to be called a real Singaporean.

>> You don’t pay 7% GST? Maybe 10% after next election from what I am hearing?

Utter BS. Singapore doesn’t belong to the poor alone.

>> The poor and middle class usually constitute to more than 80% of the population. Haven’t seen any country where the rich constitutes to more than 10% of the population. Hence, by rule of democracy whereby the majority votes wins, the poor and the middle class “owns” the country.

Of course, in reality, we know the world is being “ruled” by the powerful few; however, do note that there’s no point going against public opinions; that’s how dynasties “fall”.

“Singapore doesn’t belong to the poor alone. ”

Thats true, neither does it belong to a bunch of greedy incompetent people either, especially the women who have never served NS or the men who were given special treatment in NS.

Let’s clear up some myths once and for all for some of the posters:
1> Male Children of Singapore PR’s have to go through NS if they are also PR.
2> Male Children of new citizens ALSO have to go through NS if they are Singaporean or PR.
3> No, LHL’s son did NOT have a laptop and his own room when he was doing NS. Where do you get such nonsense? Claims like this only hurts your credibility.
4> New Era (#202), You are voting for precisely bupkiss, and they are not my “masters”. You think when the MIW leave, things will be fine? Every GLC, every stat board, armed forces, every worker’s union is filled with PAP men at the helm and you can’t vote them out! They are where the real power is vested (who do you think ‘advises’ the ministries?) Even IF the opposition scores a win, you think they can get anything done? Only a fool or a child will think that voting the PAP out of parliament will change anything. I am not saying I like this state of affairs any better than you do, but judging from the responses to the original topic it is very clear that hatred has blinded reason.

207) h0ng

Woa, what a “great” discovery it must have been for you, but i guess I have to disagree with you.

“I discovered what we’ve now is because of capable leaders we have.” What we have now is not because of the “capable” leader we have, but the hard work done by our forefathers….h0ng…you can be Caesar, but if you don’t have brave legionnaires to back you up, do you think you can succeed?

“They gave us so much and yet it seems like we are never satisfied with the work they’ve done.”

Sorry h0ng, another disagreement. Let me ask you this…what did they give us? if it was given us without taking anything in return, i will be grateful. However, they are taking pays in the orders of millions, 6 times higher then a man who can order a nuclear missile launch, and yet performance is sub-par…are you satisfied with that? I am grateful for leaders like OTC and other forefathers, but not the current leaders.

and speaking of owning a company..if you really do so, I think you will still employ those who don’t have to serve NS and commit those hours to work. and thank goodness you don’t own a company cos if you are happy with staffs that draw ridiculous pay and doesn’t perform, the company will so straight down

“No, LHL’s son did NOT have a laptop and his own room when he was doing NS. Where do you get such nonsense?”

Let’s give LHL’s son the benefit of the doubt. Like Prince William and Harry who were no different from any other soldier fighting in Afghanistan.

“Only a fool or a child will think that voting the PAP out of parliament will change anything. ”

Really? If a new government has the backing of the people, can the “Every GLC, every stat board, armed forces, every worker’s union is filled with PAP men” not afford to obey the people’s will unless they want to kill the Republic of Singapore and the golden goose that feeds them?

#208

“Utter BS. Singapore doesn’t belong to the poor alone. ”

You are absolutely right. I’m not very rich and am lucky to consider myself not ’suffering’.

But those who are better off do have an obligation to think about the poor and how some policies are less kind to them.

Don’t forget what you have, what you don’t suffer from, isn’t so much work done by our capable leaders or even your own efforts as the stroke of luck of being born into the ‘right’ place and ‘right’ social class.

This guy is the worse PM I have ever seen !! Oops ! we have only 3 PMs so far, all are half past six !!

Sigh….I am sure PM Lee is sorry that this has happened….It is an honest mistake….Let’s not start a witchhunt…..dun anyhow vote in 2012 cause I need to spend time to fix other people, like dat how to give CPF credits with love from the Govt?????

When the PAP wins again with 98% of the seats, then they will work harder and longer to think of new schemes to build more ERP, give more HDB subsidy and bring in more PRs……

In the meantime, LET”S MOVE ON…….

169) Ghim Moh resident

Hey, it is me Yamamoto, whom you mistook for Yamashita…Do you still feel unease? hope you get history 101 right …

So GMR, you are really special you know…yes, singapore has a good strong stable currency that allows you to travel yada yada…but have you ever considered that it is only for YOU? well, and for me too of course! since with the exchange rate, I have more value in my money literally.. but have you look at the short-term effect on import/export? strong currency = good import and not so good export…and what is the major component of our GDP?

and back to the stable exchange rate…that’s good news for us, but bad news for our tourism industry and retail sector… Now why do I say that? Although it is a minority issue, my Indonesian and vietnamese friends who used to visit singapore frequently for the past decades has reduce doing so for the past 2 years, due to that stable SGP dollar or should I say the weak US dollar. These friends of mine are big spender, I mean black cards user are usually big aye? but they are unwilling to do so now…only stopping by at Mt E for annual check up.

so GMR, see the 2 sides of the coin…i understand your calling TOC one sided , but don’t you think that your view of the forex is derived from what it serves you.

If the forex is weaker then now, and you don’t get so much value in your overseas trip, will you still be in praises? even though our retail and tourism sectors will benefit?

187) FeverGuy

RM is stable because it is not traded after the asian economic crisis…and you are right about it…judging a country by its forex is so superficial and 1 sided…it will be like people coming to singapore, sees the modern scenery, and declare there is no poverty/old places in singapore.

It is not the womanfolk who do not want to serve, but the govt policy does not require female citiznes to serve NS. Any males who do not wish to servie NS should persuade their parents to migrate before they turn 18. Anyway, I had always suspect that PAP looks down on Singaporean males (except for those elites, scholars, high flyers & sucessful entrepreneurs)

214) Zefly (aka Joshua Chiang)

Agree with you. Just because we are not suffering doesn’t mean we can ignore what is happen to others…if not when it hit us, it is too late…

just like cancer…doesn’t mean that even if you are healthy now, you can ignore that threat right?

Anyway, don’t mind me asking Zefly, but there was a period when you seldom com in here right? just curious

207) h0ng on October 5th, 2009 11.13 am

You said:”…I’m just curious on why people is so angry about Singapore government? They gave us so much and yet it seems like we are never satisfied with the work they’ve done. Exactly how many of us thank them? …..”

I say: I believe 99% of Singaporeans agreed that the PAP government has done a good job especially during the early phases of nation building. Majority of Singaporeans have shown their appreciation and support by voting for PAP and return it to power repeatedly since 1965. However, I feel that in recent years the PAP government has lost touch with the people especially at the grassroot level.

You said:”….They are our leaders but they are humans too. Maybe that statement he made was a mistake, but as said we are all humans……”

I say: There are mistakes that can be forgiven and forgotten. However, there are mistakes that cannot and should not be forgiven and forgotten. Whether the commend was taken out of context or not is immaterial. Being the PM of Singapore making careless commends on issue which is one of the core pillars of our nation building is not acceptable.

You said:”…..Look at the chaotic situations all over the world, and leaving in Singapore is a bless except for piling stress level….”

I say: There are two faces to every coin. Anyone who read news only from the Singapore MSM will have the impression that Singapore is the heaven on earth and everywhere else is hell. Agreed that there are many places worst than Singapore. However, there are also a lot of places better that Singapore.

I leave you with this point to ponder:
Let’s say in country X, to hold on to power, government X sent in the army and killed the citizens who oppose its rule. In another country S, in order to strenghten its grips on power to rule, government S will administer a cut on its citizens stomach. The cut is deep enough to cause unbearable pain but not fatal. When the wound heals the cutting process is repeated. The process continues until the citizens are dead.

Base on the above scenarios, do you think that citizens in country S is more fortunate because at least they survive the cuts and lives longer?

“high flyers & sucessful entrepreneurs” also need to serve NS unless they are not in Singapore. And they are “Very Happy” to do their NS instead of making money / going on holiday. They are also equally as “happy” when their local employees are off doing NS instead of making money for them (and earning their salary).

Please do not use the misnomer “elites” when they are not elite in anything.

Zefly, #214

I always believe in helping the less-fortunate amongst us.

But it is the discourse of discriminating against Singaporeans who aren’t suffering, that irks me greatly.

However, if you look at it closely, it is somewhat BS when you have people claiming that only the poor can be real citizens and that the wealthier segments don’t deserve to be seen as one.

Yamamoto

I come here often. Just nothing much to say.

Zefly 214,

I would disagree with your assumption that being well-off is not connected to hard work or good effort, and solely dependant on social class.

That is too deterministic. In fact, it is an ecological fallacy..

“But it is the discourse of discriminating against Singaporeans who aren’t suffering, that irks me greatly. ”

YOU are the BSer. WHAT DISCRIMINATION?!!!! Rich people like having their sons go NS is it? Fxxxing dumbass.

This episode, brings to mind a famous story during my army days. When a riffleman was asked during a dialogue session with some top brass, what would be the first thing he would do if he were yo go to war. His answer “shoot my PC”. All were stunned and the Riffleman explained that his white horse, scholar PC was so bad with his combat leadership skills that he would most proably get the whole platoon killed. He said it was better to be lead by the platoon sergeant. He had faith in his sergeant because of his leadership through example compared to his appointed PC. So the moral of the famous story is not whether you want to lead a platoon but whether the men have trust in your leadership and want to be lead by you. War is not politics, where money and connection can get you anything, including leadership. War is where men trust their lives in your hands and I am sure that they are much more careful with their choice than with their votes for the ballot box.

209) Dumb and dumber on October 5th, 2009 11.26 am

To 209) Loyola on October 5th, 2009 11.13 am
#209
You don’t pay 7% GST? Maybe 10% after next election from what I am hearing?

>>>Of course I do. But having lived in Australia, the amount of GST we pay here is pretty much bearable, and this sentiment is shared by a fair amount of people I personally know.

The poor and middle class usually constitute to more than 80% of the population. Haven’t seen any country where the rich constitutes to more than 10% of the population. Hence, by rule of democracy whereby the majority votes wins, the poor and the middle class “owns” the country.

>>>Yes, you are right that the rich are a minority, that I won’t argue with you.

Being middle class doesn’t mean that one is automatically suffering. We should not go to extremes when applying subjective value to words like “suffering”.

Of course, in reality, we know the world is being “ruled” by the powerful few; however, do note that there’s no point going against public opinions; that’s how dynasties “fall”.

>>> I’m not “royalty”, just upper-middle. However, I understand that many people have grievances about rising cost of living. What peeves me off is the allusion of people who seem to take pride in stripping away the right of identifying as a Singaporean for people who arent grasping at straws about GST, housing prices or a rising CPI.

Singaporeans are made up by all sorts of people. Being well-off doesn’t mean I am not a Singaporean. It’s time to look beyond this navel-gazing act.. it’s insular.

Poor or Rich, it doesnt matter. Most are against NS for locals, jobs for foreigners, and implicitly the Government (PAP) that implements this policy.

It appears to me that the wisest thing for PM Lee Hsien Loong to do now is for him to step down or retire for good.

There seems a total lack of confidence and respect for him in the Citizenry.

its obvious that LHL has no solution to these years of problems being screwed by them. as a PM is much like PC so since he can’t solve and think of solution….

then, brothers (all NSs and Reservists) vote for this ‘PC’ out of election from commandering us.

Loyola,

You are only partially correct. Bill Gates would have less chance of being who he is today if he were born in Somalia than in USA. Even if he has incredible determination, he may well end up shot before he had the chance to try out his ideas.. provided of course he can go to school.

There are many rich people who were born poor and ‘made it’ through their own efforts. But they recognize the poor have a steeper hill to climb compared to the already well-off. That’s why they become philantropists.

You may have an incredible rags to riches story, but if you think it really is completely dependant on your efforts alone, it only takes a war to prove you wrong.

aiyoyo

in times of need (if enemy attack),

is the young platoon commanders, looking at the old reservists

& tell them what’s being said,

by this elite of elites?

as the chinese saying – “祸从口出”。。。

aiyoyo

231 Zefly

I think outliers aren’t the best examples.

Yes, there’s always a combination of factors that produce success, but always remember it is not dependent on social class as well.

I’ve seen absolute retards born into wealthy families, and smart chaps born into your average household..

The foreign chicken spice up the lifes of many a singapore men and breakdown many singapore families. The foreign men are too spicy and made many a singapore man lost his cool.

Hades

post #198 on October 5th, 2009 9.01 am

////This quote is taken WAAAAAAY out of context. LHL was referring to the fact that it is next to impossible to get any immigration into Singapore if we expect a 45 year old bank manager to do NS, regardless of what form it might take (army, police, civil defence etc).////

45 year old banker can help NGO or other charity check their accounts. must know how to tap relevent skills mah.

////Whether we need such immigration is of course subject to debate and has been discussed many times here but really, LHL was referring to the fact that it is simply not feasible and he’s right (hell even a monkey can occasionally solve maths puzzles). Also imagine the problems a 21 year old platoon commander may face if his company has a few 30-40 year olds, who probably are unfit, cannot run SOC, and have wives and kids at home!////

1. if that middle aged recruit cannot obey simple & reasonable instructions he will be charged for insubordination!
2. S’pore can do without people with bad attitude. (how to be gracious, when you import brutes? right?)
3. all local men have no wife & kids? or are there policies out there that deters local men from having wife & kids?

////The last thing we need at this point is to give more ammo to the MIW, but judging from some of the knee jerk reactions of this board (including the person who posted the original article), they might be justified in thinking that Singaporeans are a bunch of whining complainers.////

that is where you perspective differs, its the MIWs that are giving TOC ammos. folks in hades are not only nerve dead i suppose… :P

h0ng

post #207 on October 5th, 2009 11.13 am

////I do believe all of us interpret things differently and maybe there is hidden meaning that we don’t understand. I’m just curious on why people is so angry about Singapore government? They gave us so much and yet it seems like we are never satisfied with the work they’ve done. Exactly how many of us thank them? I’m standing at a neutral point of view.////

i am curious how you can even say that when they are drawing such a good salary.

never hear before “Pay And Pay”?

////Even myself was angry before but after standing in the middle of the busy roads, I discovered what we’ve now is because of capable leaders we have. They are our leaders but they are humans too. Maybe that statement he made was a mistake, but as said we are all humans. Look at the chaotic situations all over the world, and leaving in Singapore is a bless except for piling stress level. To me, PR or not serving NS does not matter at all. If you own a company, would you not think twice of who to employ?////

capable leaders is a thing of the past. if there still are, the bottom 20% of the population would not need external help to defray the rising cost of living.

to you serving NS does not matter? looks like some sectors in this tiny island really take national security for granted. no stability in country, more disruption in businesses… maybe companies ought to be taxed for it- National Security Tax anyone? ;)

Sigh…….

We are the unwilling (no choice, but got to do!)
Led by the unqualified (White Horse PC with zero EQ & empathy)
To do the unnecessary (rush to wait & wait to rush)
For the ungrateful (bloody FTs that take away jobs from my fellow Singaporeans)

“LHL was referring to the fact that it is simply not feasible and he’s right (hell even a monkey can occasionally solve maths puzzles). Also imagine the problems a 21 year old platoon commander may face if his company has a few 30-40 year olds, who probably are unfit, cannot run SOC, and have wives and kids at home! ” : Hades.

You know what Hades? There are two problems to this comment.

Firstly, the 21 year old platoon commander is too young – no matter what sort of tertiary degree he may possess.

Secondly, the problem of having a platoon with 30,40, 50-year olds is for people like our PM to solve. That’s why he is paid so much!

It is people like you who keep speaking up for people like LHL that is contributing to the arrogance we are now seeing in the PAP politicians.

Im certain PM lee mai hum is growing in goondu-ness day by day. Only good at sowing discourse.

211) Hades on October 5th, 2009 12.03 pm

Let’s clear up some myths once and for all for some of the posters:
1> Male Children of Singapore PR’s have to go through NS if they are also PR.
2> Male Children of new citizens ALSO have to go through NS if they are Singaporean or PR.

Dear Hades

You are totally wrong,
Many children of Singapore PR give up their blue IC before 18 and studies overseas- don’t have to serve NS
Children of Singapore PR applies for a Singapore PR on their own (after finishing their degrees) and they get a PR easily.

My point is there is a great issue here that Singaporeans are easily replaced by PRs and foreigners in the job market easily. We should not pretend (like the PAP and PM) that there is nothing happening and keep asking Singaporeans to be open-minded.

Whether the sentence was quote out of context or not, the fact remains, social unrest has krept in from the influx of foreign workers whether you like it or not.

First I must say …lousy reporting on the MSM newspapers part. Second, we seriously need some reforms and changes.

115) SpitOnTheFace on October 3rd, 2009 11.50 pm ,

bro, is your word ‘knn’ meaning what i have in mind to for this ‘PC’?

Conclusion…..

PM Lee popularity is well below 45% (F Grader).

Even if PM Lee does The Full Monty with Ho Jinx at the Marine Barrage won’t improve his votes.

207) h0ng on October 5th, 2009 11.13 am

“I’m just curious on why people is so angry about Singapore government? They gave us so much and yet it seems like we are never satisfied with the work they’ve done. Exactly how many of us thank them? I’m standing at a neutral point of view.”

I believe the Singapore people have thanked the PAP many times by putting them back in power since 1965. With this power, they have helped themselves to the rewards. I believe more than 66% of SIngaporeans “thanked” them in that way.

However things are different now. A crude example, my husband has been nice to me for the last 41 years and vice versa I have been a good wife to him all that time. And then since 2006 suddenly he starts bringing many women home and he started going to Casinos to gamble. He even lost a lot of our reserves and to make things worst, he got the cheek to ask me to accept things for my own good. He say he is calibrating his inflow of women but I only see many women come non-stop to take my place. He even ask a Canadian stranger to write to me to tell me that I have been very ungrateful.

Of course I am angry and I want to oppose this unfair and unreasonable treatment. For the sake of my children and my own sanity, I will have to divorce him (not sure in 2009 or 2010) but I really worry about his threat to use force if for some freak reasons I left him. He did promise to upgrade my diamond ring if I do not leave him. What do you all think I should do? Bear with his unreasonable ways or leave him?

At 243) Queenie.
I felt sorry 4 U are in the lost.
U must distinguish things in certain times. be alert.
Your case is different from this political scene.
Yes I will thank the PAP old guard. But not the present one.
They are the one scarifice for the people they are the real (People Action Party).
Now is rule by (Papa Anak Party). The famiLEE. is no more a Country Goverment.
Is a famiLEE Goverment. So Made It clear for yourself. Bye Bye. Take Care.

@199) Hades on October 5th, 2009 9.01 am

“…..LHL was referring to the fact that it is next to impossible to get any immigration into Singapore if we expect a 45 year old bank manager to do NS, regardless of what form it might take (army, police, civil defence etc)…..”

Hades, I congratulate you for leading most of us “whiners” in circles. We should first ask is it really impossible to get a 45-year old SG bank manager that had done NS to a post in the first place? NO? You sure the many now in Canada, Australia, US, Britain, etc… don’t have the qualifications? Why can SG retain such “only resources of SG” and then only have to resort to importing replacements?

Assuming that we really didn’t have a 45-year old SG bank manager, then isn’t that a failure of our educational and/or commerical-cum-human development issues? Again, everyone is in agreement that humans are the only resource SG has, why such failure to manage?

Next, your argument of the difficulties for a “…..21 year old platoon commander may face if his company has a few 30-40 year olds.” This is really a VERY poor excuse for ZERO leadership. I and someone else already asked if our leaders are only fair-weather type. I also don’t see such analogy when young/green PSC scholars are placed in charge of departments where there are a few old birds in their 40-50s.

212) Hades on October 5th, 2009 12.03 pm

“….Only a fool or a child will think that voting the PAP out of parliament will change anything. I am not saying I like this state of affairs any better than you do, but judging from the responses to the original topic it is very clear that hatred has blinded reason. …”

We are whining with reasons and quoting examples, you are counter-whining without any substance. Pls share what are teh solutions if you also don’t like the state of affairs. Give the ruling party another 50 years to prove we are wrong?

TBC……

cont’d of #246) theforgottongeneration on October 5th, 2009 9.24 pm

It seems then that you (Hades) are the one taking things WAYY of of context. I interpret most bloggers as framing their comments from an overview of the situation, having to fit of course the relevancy of the topic.

If you can see my queries on #191 (which is STILL under moderation), perhaps you could further enlighten us on your line of thought, together with Ghim Moh resident and Jane Goo. I repost the query portion as:

1) Did or did not our PM said that the interests of Singaporeans will always be first? Pls show proof of this statement thus far against treatment for PRs. Don’t tell us he was misquoted or taken out of context?

2) $10 millions is to be spent to integrate the PRs and new citizens. How much is spent each year integrating the thousands of NSmen that have ROD back into the mainstream society? My own experience is that after ROD, I was left completely on my own to try and fit back into the commerical and/or educational worlds. Absolutely ZERO help from the govt.

3) Show the deliberate economical advantage(s)/policies that a person that had served NS/reservist will have over those those that had not served, e.g. preference in employment, higher wages, ICTs will not affect opportunities for career advancement, etc

I know the best you can do is complaining, silly mortals.
You don’t even know my agenda, stupid mortals.
If not for your votes, do I have to wayang you.
Now another 2.5 millions new immigrants, I will get 50% of them to become citizens, and then Game over for you , lousy and ungrateful mortals.
You have no chance to play play with me……
It’s the votes …..Stupid.

TOC,

Inferencing from my posts at #125, #191 and #247, it seems like the moderation is for points#2 and/or #3. Pls don’t be wishy-washy; if there is any “inappropriateness”, just junk the posts. However, I think those are fair comments in response to the pro-estabishment stand of some posters. Get cold feet, guys?

LHL and LKY said: ‘I know the best you can do is complaining, silly mortals.
You don’t even know my agenda, stupid mortals.
If not for your votes, do I have to wayang you.
Now another 2.5 millions new immigrants, I will get 50% of them to become citizens, and then Game over for you , lousy and ungrateful mortals.
You have no chance to play play with me……
It’s the votes …..Stupid. ‘

Stupid singaporean! ha.

WOW PAP DOGS are here! Lapping up their master’s BALLSS.

198) Hades

“This quote is taken WAAAAAAY out of context. LHL was referring to the fact that it is next to impossible to get any immigration into Singapore if we expect a 45 year old bank manager to do NS, regardless of what form it might take (army, police, civil defence etc).”

What is National Service means to you? Is it only for the young and fit? When the country goes to WAR, can a 45 year old bear arms to fight? What is impossible? The WILL or the AGE? If a bank manager can work till 12 midnight to close a million dollar deal why cant he do a 5BX in the morning? No country should trade their citizenship as cheaply as it can get. You cant find any country ’s government as cheap as the way our Singapore does.

“Whether we need such immigration is of course subject to debate and has been discussed many times here but really, LHL was referring to the fact that it is simply not feasible and he’s right (hell even a monkey can occasionally solve maths puzzles). ”

Subject to debate? What are you talking? The FLOODGATES are already wide opened for the last 10 years. DEBATE? With who the BIG APE? Feasibilities studies are not even carried out by the GOV. Why jump to conclusion? Is like how Home Ministry jumped into conclusion that MSK has fled to Indonesia or philipine with the help of others.In fact he went over to malaysia in a rubber float. Get the facts first!

“Also imagine the problems a 21 year old platoon commander may face if his company has a few 30-40 year olds, who probably are unfit, cannot run SOC, and have wives and kids at home!”

So must all the platoon mates be 18,19,20,21,22,23 years old and greenhorn so that a PC can control them? Why bother to attend SOC, officer leadership courses and all sorts of management courses? Waste of time as SAF can only managed young greenhorns. 30-40 years old no fitness that can be trained up and thats why there must be training. I really am stunned by your lack of logic.

“The last thing we need at this point is to give more ammo to the MIW, but judging from some of the knee jerk reactions of this board (including the person who posted the original article), they might be justified in thinking that Singaporeans are a bunch of whining complainers.”

Singaporeans are not whiners. We just had enough of the CRAP and NONSENSE from our million dollars ministers. Not only are their words dumb, their actions are dumber. I can no longer comprehend their logic and i believe many Singaporeans cant too. Please dont come here and blanket all of us as whiners. You F**K Traitors!

FG

241) mike on October 5th, 2009 5.53 pm

I believe so…I believe so…

See how the PRs are treating us like suckers:
http://www.temasekreview.com/2009/10/05/sunday-times-removed-article-on-singapore-pr-taking-part-in-prc-parade/comment-page-1/

Question – what will the govt do to the China PR girl? Revoke her PR status?

If a Singaporean teen goes overseas and does not wish to do NS – he cannot step into Singapore soil and work here.

If a Singapore PR teen refuses to do NS and runs to USA – will he face the same consequence – to be blackmarked and if he returns to Singapore soil – put him into jail.

If the Singapore PR has better and wider options, then it is true – all Singapore males are stupid and foolish to be treated thus.

At 30 we are too old to serve the army.
At 55 we are too young to manage our own CPF funds.

Reading the comments on this thread has been rather revealing to the insight of the average Singaporean. I just pointed out that LHL’s comment was taken out of context. From there I was ‘accused’ of standing up for the man (which is weird, considering I detest him, his father and everything he stands for), I was called a ‘traitor’, for just stepping back and trying to not make judgments in haste. Another person, without any sense of irony is whining about being labelled a whiner (Which I never did, I might add):
“Singaporeans are not whiners. We just had enough of the CRAP and NONSENSE from our million dollars ministers. Not only are their words dumb, their actions are dumber. I can no longer comprehend their logic and i believe many Singaporeans cant too. Please dont come here and blanket all of us as whiners. You F**K Traitors!”

It seems like all this anger and hatred has morphed into a kind of scary xenophobia. Word of unsolicited advice: If you hate FT’s, hate your grandfathers and great grandfathers, because they were “FT’s” too. They came here in the same circumstances thousands of foreigners come to Singapore today, to look for a better life. If you hate immigration, hate the thousands of Singaporeans who emigrate to other nations and become their “FTs”. Face it, we’re a migrant people. Don’t blame the FTs for our problems. Our problems are the result of our government, which in turn is our representative, like it or not. We voted them in time and again and again, so we gotta live with them (don’t tell me about uncontested wards, even in contested wards PAP thrashed every opposition candidate with the exception of Chiam and Low). In any other country their actions would have led to protests in the streets but in Singapore, we put up with tyranny and even enable it, we get what we deserve. Governments will do anything people let them get away with.

If you think there is going to be any change even if an opposition party stumbles into power, you obviously have no idea of the real power wielded by GLCs, Stat Boards and the armed forces (which are chockfull of PAP yesmen). They can bring the country to a halt, blame it on the opposition and sweep back into power the very next election if they want to. Once opposition comes to power, whose side you think the media will be on? Theirs?! No way, jose. Why do you think they’re creating so many stat boards? It’s not just to give senile generals jobs.

With all the negative comments and running at 257 including mine, still going,
it is time to take stock of our PM Lee Hsien Loong (LHL) .

The father is the one running the country till now. LHL occasionally yapped
nonsense and cause an uproar.

Is it not time he resigns as PM and end the LEE dynasty.?

Singapore has many capable aspiring men to be PM if the father stopped
sueing people bankrupt when they join opposition.

Spice? No thanks, I prefer my mix plain.

Laksa Mia Hiam but Ai Hum.

#256 Hades

Your assessment is spot on. PAP has welded enormous power in all sectors. With all the government men in GIC, TH, Spring Spore, etc. PAP is trying to consolidate
all the ground. One day they will lose power. The day of reckoning is near.

By consolidating all PAP’s cronies and bootlickers and yesmen, even if the opposition
will to control power, remember what MM said about the police force and the national reserve. They will still have great influence on them.

A real sad case of a once great man (MM) unable to let go and now the-good-for nothing son, following his footstep. We all know LHL cannot fit into his old man’s foot.
He will be nobody without his father. A white horse in the army and phenomenal rose to BG. All re-arranged. LIfe is not what you are, it is who you are. Ironic but true.

ALL THE GOVERNMENT’S MEN !!

Hades said “If you think there is going to be any change even if an opposition party stumbles into power, you obviously have no idea of the real power wielded by GLCs, Stat Boards and the armed forces (which are chockfull of PAP yesmen). They can bring the country to a halt, blame it on the opposition and sweep back into power the very next election if they want to. Once opposition comes to power, whose side you think the media will be on? Theirs?! No way, jose. Why do you think they’re creating so many stat boards? It’s not just to give senile generals jobs.”

Hades, as a PAP youth wing member, you are expected to say the above. Fact is all the people you mentioned are “yes” men. They take orders and do what they are told. When, and I mean when, the opposition takes over power in the next elections, these “yes” men will take orders from their new masters. If not, they will become unemployed and have no means to pay off their multi million dollar housing loans.

First of all, I really think NS isnt that bad a thing for us Singaporeans; if you look around, you will find that the younger generation is getting soft & too pampered by their parents. It would be good for them to mix with other races, languages & religions so they could understand what it means to be Singaporean. I have done my 2yr NS & 13 Reservist, it was good cos I knew a bunch of die hard friends that could come to my aid whenever I ask them. I believe that NS made me a better person & gave me the opportunity to mix with all sorts of people, from the well-educated to the big bad gangster from Jurong West or Serangoon. I love all of them cos they are my friends & I would would fight shoulder to shoulder with them if I were to be recalled back to defend my beloved Motherland.

Now having read what our PM just said, I am begining to wonder why I put my life on the line when I was 18 & continue to do so till I hit 30+. Am I just being placed there to protect a selected few cos we are nothing more than a digit? I am always proud to tell people that I almost signed up for RINCO & become some NCO but overslept the day I was to report for interview. I am glad I didnt cos when I served my NS, I realised that many of the PCs are nothing but a bunch of idiots that just happened to have a Diploma or A Levels! I dont think they are any better than me & in fact, I would rather be led to my grave by my Sgt!!

Pm sir, I am really upset that PRs have a better deal than me or my NS pals.
We dont squat on the roadside while waiting for a cab, we dont hold hands while crossing the road, we dont talk loudly on the MRT, we have never betrayed Singapore & we have always been obedient soldiers & yet, WE are always been blamed for everything from MSK’s escape to traffic jams!! I dont really know why it’s always US that caused all these problems; shouldnt you & your A Team be shouldering some of these too? You draw an amazing monthly salary that most of us couldnt even earn in 10 years!! Instead of pushing the blame to us peasants, why not show us your worth or why you & so many of these ministers deserve their incredible salary?

Hades, let me see if I read you correct.
You are saying that the PAPies “yes” men are so entrenched everywhere that there is no point voting against them. That the elections are pointless and just “wayang”.

You must be a clown. Otherwise why would you come here and insult our intelligence. I think you should stick to writing propaganda for the MSM.

I did my reservist training till I was 40. Even when I had athritis on both knees and suffered from allergic rhinitis – they still kept me at Pes B.

So don’t go around telling me you don’t want to be my platoon commander when I am 30 or 40 you bloody liar.

I say round up ALL PRs and new Citizens and put them through 2 years of compulsory army training !

my son,
I think this time round, you have really pissed off quite of lot of Singaporeans especially the guys. Now listen to LinLauPei. Quickly get your men to work out some credit sharing plans and start throwing some money at them. It will pacify at least half of them. We have not bought enough new citizens to win all seats in the next election.

From LinLauPei’s experience, just give them whatever goodies you can give before election. We will get back twice as much after the election. LinLauPei never wrong wan ok?

Force the PRs to do NS and see how many of them came here because they love this country so much.Hey you suckers out there, they came to make money and more money.They are milking the fat cow. If you doubt, just ask them!

PM is the Commander In Chief of SAF right?

family man,

WELCOME to the new Singapore.

See my nick.

QUOTE-
254) family man on October 6th, 2009 6.56 am Question – what will the govt do to the China PR girl? Revoke her PR status?

If a Singaporean teen goes overseas and does not wish to do NS – he cannot step into Singapore soil and work here.

If a Singapore PR teen refuses to do NS and runs to USA – will he face the same consequence – to be blackmarked and if he returns to Singapore soil – put him into jail.

If the Singapore PR has better and wider options, then it is true – all Singapore males are stupid and foolish to be treated thus.

Wow! Look at the no of comments on this topic – far surpass the rest.

National Service (or National Slavery?) really hits a raw nerve in many born-in-Singapore slaves.

i always believe that a slip of the tongue is a true reflection of the mind.

Remember the infamous quote by the wife of a statesman on the NKF affair – “it is peanuts”?

Even though she was chided by her husband, the point was that she was chided for making such a public statement publicly not so much for thinking as such.

255) Hades on October 6th, 2009 8.49 am

If Lincoln never did what he does back then because of the entrenchment of the system, and civil war breaking out, barrack obama will not be the president of today.

just because the system is like that now, you want to cower and hide before it? that’s letting them win before the fight begins…when david fought against Goliath, did he cower before the giant? or did he say that it is too hard to miss.

“I have done my 2yr NS & 13 Reservist, it was good cos I knew a bunch of die hard friends that could come to my aid whenever I ask them. I believe that NS made me a better person & gave me the opportunity to mix with all sorts of people, from the well-educated to the big bad gangster from Jurong West or Serangoon”

I congratulate you on your fantasy experience of teenage holiday camp in NS. I wonder if most of the people have had your experience or mine:

While I was in NS, I saw fit men reduced to skin and bones and literally on death’s door when they contracted some rare soil borne disease from Brunei. In one troop exercises, I heard that a guy was maimed or killed by some accident involving an APC. Every other month, there is some accident (including motor) resulting in fairly serious injuries like broken bones. I witnessed officer incompetence and the shifting of blame to their men, the arbitary punishments and imprisonment handed out. Everyone was depressed and demoralized by their impotence, some even resorted to attempted suicide. There are NO human rights in the army. Better still it was for 2 and A HALF YEARS.

And I dont understand how associating oneself with a gangster is a badge of honour for you, unless you want their protection as people do in a Jail. And you really believe these are your genuine friends.

But it is nice to hear that at least some people had the optimism to make the best out of their situation, like a few POWs did in concentration camps who were at least fighting for the same side. You are right, though NS did make me a better man and made me realize that for all the discrimination that occurs in Malaysia is not even equivalent to a month of this “experience”.

Wow, now I am a PAP Youth Wing member? The chap who started TOC knows a bit about me and he will be glad to refute that claim. I have been through enough crap from the PAP, been threatened with lawsuits from weirdos in power, had to shut my old fledgling website down and got into trouble enough times for speaking my mind. I know what these guys are capable of and what lengths they will go to to keep their power and to extend their power-base. Ever heard of someone whose citizenship was denied despite having done NS, in an infantry unit , combat vocation and having no disciplinary record? That would be me. It took three years to fix that injustice and I am as proud of my citizenship as any of you because unlike a lot of people I have had to earn it the hard way, so please don’t give me the nonsense that I am a PAPpie.

I am simply pointing out a reality, not because I like it any more than you do. You can think what you like of course. It’s your prerogative. We’re acting surprised and shocked when the Son says something stupid and blaming FT’s, calling for their blood when the problem is somewhere else as is firmly entrenched in the system. No FT comes here thinking “Oh goody I am going to make a Singaporean jobless! Hooray!”. They come here to make some money and go back, just like thousands of Singaporeans do in Australia, China, US or UK. Blaming them is simply a case of the abused kicking downwards.

“Recruit is the lowest being on earth”; that’s the first thing my entire platoon was taught on our first lesson of BMT training. Ironically, how I missed those days; my friends, my comrades in arms, the bonding, the sweat and blood; from boy to man.

NS is about protecting this country that needs to be protected as long as your root is here. How sad it is to taint such memory with issues of whether PR should do NS.

Hi Hades,

It is much easier to listen and accept a PAP supporter sharing his views than to accept one who claims to “… detest him (LHL), his father and everything he stands for…”, and then offering a litany of excuses that seem to vindicate the very people he despises.

When, oh when, are you going to be able to understand the underlying reasons why most are so xenophobic with ‘hateful’ behaviours?

You, like the other who has the sum of Zero, has reasoned that our forefathers were immigrants themselves and that we ought to be able to sympathize with the FTs of today. Both of you are trapped in time.

Please consider the economic, geographic and financial situations of the two vastly different eras. Our foreparents never called themselves ‘talents’. They simply packed their bags to come to a land of promise, taking risks that could have gone either way; one that could have brought about adverse consequences for themselves and their families.

The immigrants of today (let’s take the truly qualified FTs out of the equation) are here as thieves and robbers – not that it is their fault – at the invite of this equally corrupted government who has eyes only for any opportunity that helps grow the goldmine of riches.

I agree that both are immigrants and, by and large, we should not even have any issues with this new influx. However, you surely can’t be blind to the two vastly different circumstances why these immigrants came here:

– one came to carve out and create their own wealth while the other is coming here to take away this wealth that was built by those who came earlier.
– one who had contributed to building and defending his new home, helping the mixed-society along the way to integrate as one, while the other – with the help of this government – is demanding that we learn from them and serve them; never mind where their talents lie.
– One where this government is every-ready to defend even though it has not shown or proven anything to assure the people of their allegiance to this country; while the ones who have given their lives by contributing to its defense and stability are being derided on a daily basis.

Hades, tell me honestly; when you hear your Prime Minister say to you that he would not want to be your platoon commander because of your age, what runs in your mind?

To me, if a PM thinks this way; I will be fearful for myself, my family and my country. If he, as a PM, cannot lead a group of older people, then I won’t know where to find the faith I can place in him to lead the country.

THE REASON WHY SINGAPORE NEEDS MORE MILLION OF NEW CITIZENS.

——————————————-
http://forums.delphiforums.com/3in1kopitiam/messages/?msg=22285.1
Serving well is key to success

EXTRACTED
Asked if the political shift that occurred in Japan recently – with the Liberal Democratic Party losing power to the Democratic Party of Japan – could happen in Singapore, PMLee said:

‘Politics in Singapore is always evolving. We have progressively updated our political system in response to changes in our society and the aspirations of Singaporeans…………………………….

“Hades, tell me honestly; when you hear your Prime Minister say to you that he would not want to be your platoon commander because of your age, what runs in your mind?”

Some opposition wants PR to perform NS for citizenship, and some opposition wants MANDATORY NS abolished for locals. Not mutually exclusive. Those people who are so keen to do NS and reservist can continue to do so with the pay from those opt out, while PR must do mandatory NS to prove their loyalty to Singapore for citizenship. Which will result in much fewer immigration and migration.

Actually most “FT’s” here are not thieves. Most FT’s here come at middle management level, to do normal office work and are ordinary people like you and I who were offered a job in Singapore because they are willing to work longer for less. Does this make them corrupt? Do they come in thinking “ah!! Good! I stole a job from a Singaporean! I am happy now”? I don’t think so. They are human beings who just want to work and save money and either go back, or set up roots here. Is this wrong? Why are we demonising them by calling ALL of them thieves and corrupt? Yes there are some ultrarich, overhyped FTs who stays at the Stamford Hotel on government money, paid to do next to nothing and even gets honorary citizenship etc. (I know of a couple who are like that) but the average FT is not that person.

I never provided a litany of excuses. I was just pointing out time and again that we’re barking up the wrong tree. What we should be worried about is the way the power of the government is ENTRENCHED in non-electable, non-votable bodies like GLCs, Stat boards etc. instead of what the halfwit son says, which is not really all that mean anyway. We can talk till the cows come home about voting PAP out but what will that do? Nothing. Parliament is just one branch of the PAP power tree and cutting it off means nothing. Energy should be channeled in making organisations of the government much more accountable. Our vast reserves? No account. Our army spending? Who are those Apaches for? Why do we need so many generals? No account. Our healthcare? Why is it that doctors here charge exorbitant fees, make you wait 2 months and can’t even diagnose 4th stage cancer (that’s what happened to my mother)? HDB? A pigeon hole for half a million?! Does anyone hold any organisation to account for any of their actions? Police actions against Chee Soon Juan? Instead we’re getting so worked up by the words of a halfwit monkey and his handlers, hurling verbal abuse at anonymous posters and foreigners.

RE: 276) The PAPsmears will do anything to maintain their hold. Most new immigrants tend to vote PAP, until they know better, especially if they are from economically backward countries. You can’t blame the people for that. They see the results, and they conclude that it’s the government that has done it. They will learn though. Just give them time. Remember, they are human beings too and after the initial glitz and glamour has worn off, they will start to question as well. I have seen it happen, many times.

Thank you Hades for clarifying your position. I support your stance; as many like me who are new to this forum are confused when you make ambiguous comments with regards to the PAP. However, if we cannot even vote out the PAP, we cant even start to think about the bureaucracy yet.

“Why is it that doctors here charge exorbitant fees, make you wait 2 months and can’t even diagnose 4th stage cancer (that’s what happened to my mother)”

I have a similar story with a relative but fortunately he was not at such an advanced stage.

My fellow citizens, Singapore has many problems, it is better to air out grievances instead of sweeping under the rug and thinking that everything is alright and expecting someone else to fix the problem.

if i am called out to due to freak election result and remove local singapore citizens…

i am going to tell my hundred plus guys….are you going to remove the legally elected gov’t by the people of singapore or re-instate a bunch of greedy glutton white ghosts who care more about themselves their your kids future, your fellow citizens and singapore….

and if someone outside try to change the positions we have taken….we are going to ask them if they rather choose the legally corrupted side…are you feeling lucky cos i will make it sure you are luck fast and only 1 time only at that point in time?

I have fellow soldiers permanently handicapped and got shafted by MINDEF…known soldiers who committed sucide and nothing/little was done for their parents….

I am proud to be associated with the men who serve NS willingly or not….these men and everyone of them who do NS knows ultimately before and at the end they are there to protect their loved ones….and i love everyone of them from the cook to the grunts in the field [not all regulars i respect, some i really respect because they walk the talk or lead by god right in front of the rest of us] but don’t expect me to loved and even respect a self-serving gov’t and power-mad/money mad ministers [which should be quietly retired or remove but still did not even when make so many freaking mistakes....in the army mistakes like that are simply not tolerated unless you are a bloody white elephant] that does not love its own citizens, its own soldiers and the country itself.

Disappointed.

276) With 3million New Citizens – Every 5 Years Sure Win on October 6th, 2009
Democratic Party losing power to the Democratic Party of Japan – could happen in Singapore, PMLee said:

‘Politics in Singapore is always evolving. We have progressively updated our political system in response to changes in our society and the aspirations of Singaporeans…………………………….

LHL is honest as shown in his reply. “…we have progressively updated our political system in response to changes in our society and the aspirations of Singaporeans……That’s why we GRC, that’s why PAP need to increase new citizens fast to vote for them.

Now listen to LinLauPei, LHL why don’t you go eat shit and die.

Calibration of immigrants could and should have activated many years back, not too late after the dam has broken and overflow. AND calibration would not have been thought of now had Singaporeans not made so much noise.

The CEO of SIN, a Reserved BRIGADIER GENERAL(how did he get his rank?) in the Singapore Armed Forces happens to piss off most of his countrymen and almost all the CONSCRIPTED citizens now. The Question i like to ask is; how is he to lead the country with him being the Target of ridicule by almost all his countrymen? Does he think he is fit to lead(rule)?

patriot

281) sturmtruppen on October 6th, 2009 3.24 pm

I think that old man has underestimated our intelligence. Do we just take order blindly? Come on. I think they will regret activating the reservist units. Our loyality is to protect and defend the country and Singaporeans not PAP. Once we collected our “wife” and the magazines, those officers that give stupid orders will see their body full of holes like beehive.

Hades,

Thanks for the clarification. I think the problem lies with the blurred lines between FT and FW. I get your point and yes indeed, those are some hard questions we have to ask ourselves.

Unfortunately, most are given in to the feeling of haplessness and when one is in such a state, we have to give them room to express some of their frustrations and anger.

Your original comments drew the responses it did because they gave the impression that you were talking down to those who were letting off steam.

Good that you have clarified.

A question has been ask by JBJ during the 80’s in Paliament. Who put him to be Brigadier General. Answer was sidetrack by this Father. Now he dare to voice up.
He is not fix to be a platoon commander. In 1989 or so in US trying to show his rank to the General who had fought in the Vietnam War was being told to get lost.
So kway kway here he came back .

Now I see where AGE DISCRIMINATION comes from. No wonder it is a major problem in Singapore. This is BLATANT CRIME! He is caught RED HANDED, why no arrest, no libel suit, not even a blip from the Straits Times? Honestly this familee commited so many peace crimes (as opposed to war crimes), and no one can touch them. This is what I am fed up, not just about money or power.

149) don’t judge me on October 4th, 2009 5.09 pm ,

All BGs in singapore army, please watch this clip as per above 149 post. this will put you guys in shame.

If I am the Prime Minister of Singapore, I won’t be cutting ribbons or giving speeches to students (its not even the job of the President, politicans or statesmen are not celebrities). Besides the many reforms this country needs, I will be reforming the National Service:

- Revise programme to military training only and reduce NS to one year
- Make it compulsory for PRs or new citizens.
- Draw up new code of conduct for officers upwards
- Draw up procedure of complaints and displinary actions for those who break the code of conduct.
- Draw up health & safety rules.

Yours for a better Spore,
A woman who does not know anything about NS!

289) If I am PM

I agree with your idea that it is high time for Singapore to reform the NS. I think defence budget has to be slashed to a reasonable level, say from $11B to $8B and move the money to health care and education. I think this can be done by halving the 2 years of NS and reducing the number of regulars.

I am on the fence for whether new citizens should serve NS.

I am against the huge influx of foreigners.

Hades,

with some lengthy posts, you should have made your stand clear.

peace.

why must the prime minister be a platoon commander?
why not a private in the boboking class?
everytime he openned his mouth..he must lead..not follow……..
if he is as good as he claimed to be than leekuanyew is indeed the field marshal of the singapoor arm forces…
in time of war..i will shoot him in the back and claimed it was a misfired….

The PM himself needs spice because he ‘boh liao’.

” Draw up new code of conduct for officers upwards
- Draw up procedure of complaints and displinary actions for those who break the code of conduct.
- Draw up health & safety rules.”

Hi “A woman who does not know anything about NS”

They do exist, but routinely ignored and you think the officers give a damn what their men think or are obligated to. Commando dunking had its safety protocols, but look at what happened. And these are incidents too large or serious to be covered up.

I am not dismissing the luck of the draw if some people managed to get into a “good” unit with very few criminal elements, majority of the platoon are ok people and not kuai lan kia AND the CO and officers are competent and professional soldiers and managed to create a Club Med environment. Some are luckier still become clerks etc. and somehow or other still feel suicidal.

If you are a professional soldier, you are expected to kill or be killed and not play armchair general. Not my cup of tea at all.

[i]207) h0ng on October 5th, 2009 11.13 am I do believe all of us interpret things differently and maybe there is hidden meaning that we don’t understand. I’m just curious on why people is so angry about Singapore government? They gave us so much and yet it seems like we are never satisfied with the work they’ve done. Exactly how many of us thank them? I’m standing at a neutral point of view. [/i]

indeed…
what did the present singapoor government give you?
beside a trophy in ballickin them…
ok ok a piece of big bone for you to chew/choke on it…..
unless you meant FREE education from k2 onwards?
how much does it cost you to educate your kid from k2 onwards? FREE provided you are a pap rc members..last hear rumoured free textbooks as well…
transports..yes yes all rc members got free parkin/erp cards as well…………
best of the best…
free erp poles..you don’t pay 1 single $ to have it built…
you just pay as you enter with a bip on your erp meters..free bips here..bip bips there goin to work and comin home as well…
free maids services perhaps?
yes the maid services is FREE as long as you pay her a generous wages
plus $5000 insurances just in case she get pregnant when she don’t even give you a free sex…why on earth do you want to thank the pap government for every $350 monthly levies you pay to the goverment just to employ a decent maid to looked after your notsofree educated kids…
without a doubt you would have claimed eehsienloong give you FREE baby bonuses….
right?

I don’t see what all the fuss is about. His words do make perfect sense.

If anyone, let alone someone from a foreign country enlisted at 30, 40, or 50 years old, I would certainly not like to be their platoon commander.

Age is the determining factor, because beyond physical state, there is also mental maturity. When a person goes past a certain age and reaches full adulthood, it becomes very hard and might even be detrimental to impress upon him militaristic discipline against his will. This is one of the reasons why locals have to serve by a certain age.

Also, if you want to attract foreign talent, you dangle a carrot, not a ball and chain, so his statement is sound.

spirawase

post #296 on October 6th, 2009 11.03 pm

////When a person goes past a certain age and reaches full adulthood, it becomes very hard and might even be detrimental to impress upon him militaristic discipline against his will.////

why would someone who has made another country his (or her) home find it so hard to defend it in time of need? what is against his will? didn’t they choose to come on their own accord?

if a person has no discipline, how does such a person contribute to society? or are you saying S’pore is too lax with some work requirements by allowing ill-disciplined FTs/FWs on our shores?

please clarify, the sooner the better. thank you.

spirawase

“Age is the determining factor, because beyond physical state, there is also mental maturity. When a person goes past a certain age and reaches full adulthood, it becomes very hard and might even be detrimental to impress upon him militaristic discipline against his will.”

Where were you when hundreds of thousands of Singaporean men went through reservist training in their 30s or 40s and had to subject themselves to militaristic discipline against their will?

PM Lee “would not like” to be your platoon commander if you’re 30, 40, 50 years old

Neither do we like an almost 60 year old good-for-nothing to be our PM.

Those in 30’s 40’s 50’s worry not!

It’s ok your PM doesn’t want you. Forget about PAP.

I still need you guys, as I know that you guys will STAND UP for me in critical moments.

Vote for your pride!

For those stupid enough to convince themselves (and others) that age is a limiting factor for any useful roles in uniform, let’s check if there are ANY Congressional Medal of Honor receipants, who was less than rank of PC, age about 30-40 (at time of cited action), era of WW2 or later, where age can be established:

MSgt.Adam, Stanley, 29
Sgt. Anderson, Webster, 34
Sgt Ashley, Eugene Jr, 37
Sgt Belcher, Ted, 42
M.Sgt. Benavidez, Roy, 33
M.Sgt Bertoldo, Vito, 30
Cpl. Beyer, Arthur, 36
. . . . .

….. oh my, and only up till family names with “Be..” — this can take all night. I think any competent leader would gladly have such men in his platoon, nothwithstanding any white hair that they might exhibit.

spirawase @296

You wrote:
“Age is the determining factor, because beyond physical state, there is also mental maturity. When a person goes past a certain age and reaches full adulthood, it becomes very hard and might even be detrimental to impress upon him militaristic discipline against his will.”

My comment:
Isn’t mental maturity a good thing? A young teen is much harder to discipline than a 30 yr old adult. If you mean it is harder to BULLY someone above 30, definitely agree with you. Or it is harder to order the adult to do stupid thing. If you are not very clever, you will want to command the young and naive.
Besides there are many under 30s PRs I am sure. So why are they not suitable?

You wrote:
“Also, if you want to attract foreign talent, you dangle a carrot, not a ball and chain, so his statement is sound.”

My comment: What about attracting local talent? Why not do the same to retain local talent? We haven’t really encountered any genuine foreign talent esp from Mainland have we? Actually we do not even know the definition of ‘foreign talent’, how to dangle carrot? We are attracting all the wrong people aren’t we?

Hi spirawase,

Let’s put this thing in its proper perspective.

Serving NS, in the flawed context presented by most posters here, does not have to be limited to combat vocations. I agree to a certain extent that one who is over 30 may find it harder to adapt to changes that require them to receive orders without questioning these orders in return. In a military sense, questioning an order is tantamount to insubordination. Failure, or the inability to follow orders, can lead to detrimental outcomes, especially when placed in the frontlines during combat. Arguing thus, I am inclined to be on PM’s side and the remarks he made.

Having said that, let us not forget also that serving NS does not mean that one should be placed at the frontlines in combat vocations. There are numerous other military vocations available. Can we not place these FTs in support vocations like, administration, kitchen, medics, drivers etc to lend support?

Going a step further, serving NS need not even be the military kind. Like I have mentioned earlier, why not send these FTs to nursing homes, hospices, charitable homes etc where they can be trained to take care of Singaporeans? This will endear them to Singaporeans and make it easier for us to accept them and integrate with them – as is the desire of this government.

Now, considering what I have just shared; it does show up our PM for who he truly is when he made those comments. He does not have the talent to think beyond military form of national service. He has shown himself to be narrow-minded (sic). Worst of all, he has exposed himself to us by admitting that he cannot, and will not, be a leader to the older folks – and mind you, older folks in his context is anyone above the age of 30 years.

272) Omega Lee on October 6th, 2009 12.55 pm

Well Omega, I didn’t actually had a holiday camp when I was 18; instead of complaining about how bad things are, why not just get on with life with a smile? Every guy has to serve NS, whether you like it or not, perhaps time will fly faster if you remain positive about it. Of course, I don’t expect everyone to share the same sentiments as me cos others might suffer more. I am not sure which unit you were in but I doubt that my vocation as a Guardsman could be anywhere less tough than yours. My knees are giving me problems nowadays & I guess it’s quite likely some injuries that I suffered in NS, now I have to bear the pain or take painkillers whenever it gets worse. Well, life still has to go on for all of us.

You got me wrong about me wanting to be associate with some gangsters; I didnt choose my platoon mate & if some Ah Beng is paired in my section, then I think it’s only right for us to be friends cos 2 years isnt a short time. I couldn’t go around ignoring the guy when he’s just sleeping in the next bed & instead of avoiding him, why not be his good pal. It doesn’t mean that I need to be involved in his illegal activities or get into gang troubles with him, I DO have a choice. It takes everyone’s effort to make out it alive in NS, so don’t judge others cos they are from a different background. BTW, I don’t need any protection from anyone; I could stand my ground like most 18 yrs old!

To 284) FriedKwayTiaoWithHum

most of the guys in the company line are also fed up with the current incumbent gov’t….

if the current gov’t falls out of power and really call us out to re-instate them, they can go kiss our asses first….

they will probably depend on the regulars….only hope is the regulars know their loyalty comes first to singapore and its citizens…and fully understand if they do support such an “evil” directive against the common will of the citizens….it is also going against their loved ones too.

Sad.

149) don’t judge me on October 4th, 2009 5.09 pm
”
TAKE THAT SINGAPOREANS!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlKJg0jfJAk&feature=player_embedded#

check out around 1minute point…This is who our NS men that are protecting…WELL DONE…more good years!
”

As a singaporean citizen I am proud of her :
1. She is Patriotic to China and proclaims it on TV. Yes, she is a PR of singapore. But this does not mean she is not Patriotic to China. Many foreigners have applied and gotten PR cert in a short few months. Maybe world record time?

2. I am proud of her HONESTY. She talk with confidence and pride and her eyes glistened as she proclaimed her Loyalty to her China.

3. She proves that PRs can be like that. Patriotic to their motherland even if PR of singapore.

4. If its there for the taking, of course she will take it.

Well done gal!

If i were her i would not quit China as China will be the next world power while others may remain stagnant for decade or more.

305) sturmtruppen on October 7th, 2009 11.27 am

No worries mate! If those greedy self serving fat cats are stupid enough to do it, I believe common sense will prevail among the regular soldiers. There is also nothing to worry about those balls kissing generals because without the men they are nothing.

To 307) FriedKwayTiaoWithHum

True as true does : )

Without us they are just empty uniforms all right and they must fight for the right cause too ; )

At the rate the incumbent gov’t is going….perhaps we don’t even have to do anything cos most likely in the end at the number of continuing freaking screw ups and not very well thought out policies…the incumbent gov’t will cause its own downfall…

now wouldn’t that be a “right” treat for the citizens of singapore ” )

Hope.

@304) gemami on October 7th, 2009 8.09 am

“….. I agree to a certain extent that one who is over 30 may find it harder to adapt to changes that require them to receive orders without questioning these orders in return. In a military sense, questioning an order is tantamount to insubordination…..”

This kind of view is flawed as the will to do anything depends on the intent and dedication of the person, not just the age. Just look at the young PRC b**** flashing her SG blue(?) IC when she decided to abandon ship & return to China. Isn’t that an open display of “inability to take orders to remain a loyal PR” here? A desertion, not just insubordination?

You think there is any sympathy from employers for 40-50-year olds S’poreans who are forced to take up any jobs outside their skill set? The employers give kiddy-gloved orders to this group of S’poreans, is it?

Pls Gemani, don’t take our kindness for our weakness.

MINDEF SHLD SEND ALL RESERVISRS A LETTER.

ONE LINER WOULD DO.

“PLEASE OPT OUT OF YOUR RESERVIST LIABILITY IF YOU DONT WANT PM TO BE YOUR PC”

Seow @290:

I would go as far as halving the budget. As for foreigners doing NS, I thought it would be a deterrent to easy entry into SG therefore reducing the number of foreigners. The only hitch and a very serious one, is Al Qaeda’s men can get free training and leave to fight for their own cause. Its like the Chinese female PR in the video posted, she could have got free military training in SG to serve her own country. This is the main problem, not age!

Ω李 @294
You wrote: “They do exist (referring to bad practice), but routinely ignored and you think the officers give a damn what their men think or are obligated to.”

- This is why we need a procedure for complaints as mentioned in my list of reform actions and it has to be all the way up to the very top.

- The code of conduct obviously need changing as well. This is why I mention them.

You wrote: “Commando dunking had its safety protocols, but look at what happened. And these are incidents too large or serious to be covered up.”

- Apparently the safety protocols are broken otherwise the safety protocol need to be changed. There should be follow-up investigations to see that the protocols need changing or are broken and also to administer consequences on the perpetrators.

If I am the PM of Spore, I won’t be sleeping very much, let alone cutting ribbons and making speeches. There are so much to be done. The next monstrous task is reforming education. It is KEY to a better economy, not casinos and foreigners. I would use the budget from NS to spend on early education (not schooling, but nurturing or helping mothers to nurture, in fact even before the child is born!) – this is giving youngsters the best start, University is much too late.

Seow @290:

I would go as far as halving the budget. As for foreigners doing NS, I thought it would be a deterrent to easy entry into SG therefore reducing the number of foreigners. The only hitch and a very serious one, is Al Qaeda’s men can get free training and leave to fight for their own cause. Its like the Chinese female PR in the video posted, she could have got free military training in SG to serve her own country. This is the main problem, not age!

Ω李 @294
You wrote: “They do exist (referring to bad practice), but routinely ignored and you think the officers give a damn what their men think or are obligated to.”

- This is why we need a procedure for complaints as mentioned in my list of reform actions and it has to be all the way up to the very top.

- The code of conduct obviously need changing as well. This is why I mention them.

You wrote: “Commando dunking had its safety protocols, but look at what happened. And these are incidents too large or serious to be covered up.”

- Apparently the safety protocols are broken otherwise the safety protocol need to be changed. There should be follow-up investigations to see that the protocols need changing or are broken and also to administer consequences on the perpetrators.

If I am the PM of Spore, I won’t be sleeping very much, let alone cutting ribbons and making speeches. There are so much to be done. The next monstrous task is reforming education. It is KEY to a better economy, not casinos and foreigners. I would use the budget from NS to spend on early education (not schooling, but nurturing or helping mothers to nurture, in fact even before the child is born!) – this is giving youngsters the best start, University is much too late.

Yours for a better Spore,
A woman who does not know anything about NS

For true blue males, doing NS is like starting primary school at 10 years old while the females start 3 years earlier at 7.
i.e they get their degree/diploma 3 years later.
With flooding of fallen ‘talent’ from India and China etc, 3 years late start is like chopping one leg off and told to compete in this ever competitive globalised world
So the one-legged is asked to defend the the fully abled-bodied.
And the obligation is up to 50 years old..
WHAT are we defending again?
Please do not call it sacrifice—it is slavery in your own country.

“- This is why we need a procedure for complaints as mentioned in my list of reform actions and it has to be all the way up to the very top.”

Already have one. Its called passing the buck. I am sure every organization faces the same problem, but the consequences in the army are much more dire. Moreover the chain of command in the armed forces is absolute and unchallengeable.

“The only hitch and a very serious one, is Al Qaeda’s men can get free training and leave to fight for their own cause. Its like the Chinese female PR in the video posted, she could have got free military training in SG to serve her own country. This is the main problem, not age!”

No worries there; they can serve in the mock enemy platoon or some support unit as previously mentioned. Basic Military Training is nothing much. Also guerrilla fighting is completely different from fighting in an organized army.

“The next monstrous task is reforming education. It is KEY to a better economy, ”

Millions have already been spent on education, some of which on PRs who also go on to leave the country for good. Let us not be naive here; the economy needs a super task force to find new revenues for the economy. Can you imagine that the USA, with the best and the brightest (probably in the world), still cannot fix its own economy?

Honestly speaking, I feel ok if I spent my NS as a Construction worker. Don’t laugh; I would feel that I would be doing something far more useful. Also getting a higher pay at the same time.

I guess this is the greatest thread in TOC’s history……315 postings and counting..

When it comes to NS….we sporeans have the same feeling.

YNWA..

Let’s make sure we punish the PAP at the polls. My feel is next year May-June a snapped election falls in the period of sch holidays. I strongly encouraged that those who felt short changed badly by this current gov to vote for any opp candidates. There is no more second chance for all Singaporeans. At the rate of more than 100k immigrants coming to our shore every year. Time is running out for all of us. New citizens are added every year at break record speed. Not to mention hundreds of thousands of FT and FW PR. Singapore is only 700sqkm. We are all living higher and higher, crampier and crampier, more and more expensive living. How many more years can we all bear? Medical facilities are near to max utilisation. Public transportation and other amenities are also packed to the brim. Tell me what kind of country are we living in?

Hi #309) theforgottongeneration,

I did say; “…to a certain extent…” didn’t I?

reminds me of the horrible ns days…

[i]Even when we talk about the Japan[/i]

japan to discuss on what subject/topics?
do you or any of the ministers have the balls to cut off their last index finger when they made a grave judgement?
so before you want to compare with japan
think liked a nipponese first before you start booastin again…
is that why leekuanyew sided with the kempatai durin the japanese occupations?

This is preposterous.
So the sidelined majority of low-ranked toiling S’porean masses suffer in the army only to serve fat foreign expats (with the full support of the government) who simply stroll in and enjoy the privileged life.

The disease with prolonged one-party rule is that the masses had been reduced to eunuchs and sycophants. It’s no longer a disease of the skin; it has become a disease of the heart.

If lhl were my platoon commander, i will hoot him.

no need to hoot him lah…..

either he crash and burn all by himself with his moronic policy making buddies…

else there are already others in the ranks ahead of you and me who will hoot him first if beside him……

or alternatively guess we have to take set up a queue number station liao…

every NS bruders who spend 2 or 2.5 years plus ICT deserve to have a go at hooting him too but must queue first liao….do it orderly and respecful like….if the hooting is enough for this wannebe PC….we can always hoot those closest to him also liao…

drown them out also with the hooting noise from all of us pissed off chaps.

hooting them out is better then shooting them after all…must follow law leh…just hoot them out or booing them out with votes in ge is good enough…

no need to go to these politicians levels to fight….

politicians majority of them are losers already and that is why losers choose to be a politician…cos only talk cock and claim others credit or others backs to earn can they get ahead in life…lol.

@318) gemami on October 8th, 2009 7.47 am

Hi Gemami, your views are pretty well known; thus I was surprised that “… to a certain extent …” seems to be a compromise of this topic.

Many herein have mentioned that SG reservists are serving into their 30s and 40s. Does the SAF give a shit about them questioning orders, inability to follow orders, etc…? We are just asking for a level playing ground. If the foreigners we are getting ain’t “on par” with S’porean reservists who have to balance military service and civilian job, then why should we take in “inferior” material? If we can’t attract the “right” type of FTs, then it is a FAILURE of the govt, just as they had FAILED S’poreans in boosting the natural birth rate over the past 30+ YEARS. Why should we compromise on the govt’s failures? They are paid million$$ salaries to do what?

Pls read my postings #53 and #302 to understand that 30++s can contribute as much to a nation’s call to war as 20s. Only those incompetent in war or man-management across a broad spectrum, would specify the type of people he/she can work with. We call that Kiasi or no balls.

Hi theforgottongeneration,

Perhaps you’re right that there seem to be a compromise in my comments; but the compromise is only because I have met with such difficulties in my work. Now don’t get me wrong; I did say too, that for one like the PM of the country, he cannot have any excuses for not being able to lead and direct people of all ages.

You mentioned the reservists but them again these are people who had been trained during their full-time National Service to receive military orders without questioning those orders. These are very much unlike a new citizen who may come from a more liberal and open society where it is the norm to challenge another to pit himself against the intelligence of another. Mind you, we are talking about foreign talents – the talented kind.

I have suggested we use these alternative talents, who questions authority, to better use – which is to serve our old folks, our sick and our handicapped. This will allow them to see the real Singapore in all it bare and empty reality.

There is no call from me to compromise on the government’s failures, not now, not ever. They have been paid more than is necessary and my expectations of them are very, very, very high.

PM LEE was born with a golden spoon in his mouth,m and continue his smooth life of 57 years, why does he understand the poors, the low income and the crushed mid income people

His son Wilson Li made a long over-due fuss on a duty officer ( whom exchanged duty with Wilson ) absent on sunday… and PAP cronies painted the 3rd gen Lee as hero ( @#$%^&)

We must not vote PAP as they continue to rule us as gods.. they are supposed to come down to beg for votes but they made GRC to lock up Parliamentary seats

This is a dictatorship nation

I would love to have some 20, 30 & 40 FT under my charge (my rank LTA) in my next incamp training. 13 years after ORD and still serving

@325) gemami on October 9th, 2009 1.57 pm

Appreciate your clarfication; perhaps I was also rather narrow with the interpretation.

I totally agree that alternate roles should be possible for any “older” FTs. After all I understand these are of “considerable” intelligence so they should be able to pick up new non-strenuous roles per mentioned to Jas earlier (about Total Defense).

Again, another page from WW2. During the Battle of Brtiain in 1940, the British Observer Corps performed admirably. These were men too old for active service and may not have prior military experience/training. Yet they were trained hastily after the defeat France (1940), to observe & report on enemy aircraft intentions. In areas without continuous radar coverage, they were a gold mine (e.g. plotting aircraft nos, direction, etc). They were probably in their 40’s and 50’s, Ok maybe some PES “E”s. :-)

The government had always claimed that policies are decided collectively. Is this a collective view that the defence of this nation can only depends on those in their 20s? A BG and also the C-in-C (as the PM) of this nation had said that he would not want to be a commander of those in their 30s, 40s, and 50s. Looks like in time of crisis, these NSmen priority are to their families for they are not fit to report to their commanders? What he had just said would demoralised the bulk of the reservists. Is it still safe to invest in Singapore? For Singapore to continue as a nation state , we need a government that consider her citizens first and trust in their people.

What PM meant was that if the PR only started his NS at 30,40,50. Meaning learning his BMT stuff at that age, then he would not like to be their PC. You can question the validity of whether a soldier going tru his BMT at such an age is still useful, but it would be pointless to take his words out of context and attack them.

Sinkaporeans’ view on NS is always “i suffer so i want to make more people suffer”.

I am all for abolishing NS completely, and building a good volunteer army.

The real crisis facing sinkapore now is talent drain, competing in the new economy… and NS is a huge obstacle to this. Hsien Loong knows this, with his comment of “NS will put off new PRs…”

Hello ChinesePR, you came here because you can make more money right? Do you come to a kampong to make more money? You should be grateful but instead you throw insult at us Singaporeans. So sad that Singapore leaders are taking PRs to insult their own people because of their incompetency by inviting people like you. . Do you agree with me if you were Singaporean?

@Gemami…..

“Going a step further, serving NS need not even be the military kind. Like I have mentioned earlier, why not send these FTs to nursing homes, hospices, charitable homes etc where they can be trained to take care of Singaporeans? This will endear them to Singaporeans and make it easier for us to accept them and integrate with them – as is the desire of this government.”

This is probably the best suggestion I’ve heard in ages.
I’m a Born-in-Singapore but shipped out at 10 yrs old, who would gladly do any of that to get my PR. Ironically, one of the reasons my family left was becuse they did not want me to do NS. I also noted your earlier posts regarding the empathy Singaporeans could show the New Singaporeans; essentially in a similar position to our forefathers. Thanks for the level-headed reminder. My grandfather was an FT from Penang. Did a LOT for the country as one of its non-political Founding fathers. Our extended family has spent time in Singapore since the 1700’s and whilst some were born in Singapore, we view the region as our home. Even back in those days, my descendants went to Singapore to make money. This is something that is engrained in Singapore culture and has been happening for a long time.

That was then, this is now though and your idea is really good and would sort a lot of tensions and fill a lot of needed roles in showing compassion for older Singaporeans.
I feel sometimes that Singapore’s success is a double-edged sword because of the impression it puts on prospective New Singaporeans with the expectations of relative paradise, compared to where they are coming from.
Singaporeans are definately pissed off though. These developments -Overseas sourced population growth- are happening much faster these days and the stress levels it places on the people as a result of economic pressures is getting a bit much.
Defunately something the Govt could be managing better. They have to address the will of the Public eventually.
I hope that something I read in this thread that Singapore is to take on 5million people to apease the Chinese Govt is not true.

Thank you too for your insights on the distribution of power through the GLCs and Stat Boards. I am filled with optimism based on this that Singapore’s interests should be looked after even if there is a change in Govt.

Actually LHL is arty officer. so there is no PC. He is right to say that he is not going to be your PC. Try BC, GPO or BRO or FO for that matter.

Sad that the real interests of Singapore citizens are secondary to the interests of the economy of Singapore. Are we building a Nation or a Business Empire??