Straits Times censor Lee Kuan Yew?:
Why did the Straits Times censor MM Lee’s remarks about Obama being a “very great” man? See TOC’s Facebook page here.
Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew gave an interview with Charlie Rose on the “Charlie Rose Show” (Bloomberg TV) on 23 October. The following are excerpts from the interview.
On Singapore:
CHARLIE ROSE: You’ve never had a moment where you thought Singapore was too authoritative did you? Not one moment?
LEE KUAN YEW: My job was to get the place going and get everybody a decent life and a decent education. And we’re now the best educated people in the whole of east Asia. Our universities — we got three, four universities, fourth one coming up.
CHARLIE ROSE: So the end justifies the means whatever it might be?
LEE KUAN YEW: No. The ends were laudable. Everybody wants the same ends. Everybody wants good education and good health.
CHARLIE ROSE: A good life and their children to do better than they did.
LEE KUAN YEW: The means — I had the consent and support of the population. If they opposed me and they did not cooperate, it wouldn’t have worked.
CHARLIE ROSE: You were in control of everything.
LEE KUAN YEW: No.
CHARLIE ROSE: Yes you were, you know that.
(LAUGHTER)
LEE KUAN YEW: The numbers of people opposing me, including the communists in the very early years, was endless.
Diversity in Singapore:
LEE KUAN YEW: “We are a small population so we can make it up with numbers from young bright Indians and young bright Chinese, young bright Malaysians, and all the people around the world, and some middle easterners. We now have Ukrainians serving in the army.”
On maintaining Singapore’s relevancy to the world:
LEE KUAN YEW: “You cannot maintain your relevance by just staying put. The world changes. There are shifts in the geopolitics and the economics of the world. We have to watch it and ride it. You surf with them. As the surf comes this way you ride the surf. We are keeping our links with America, with Japan, with Europe. They brought us to where we are…..We absolutely refuse to choose sides. We will not choose sides between America and China or between China and India.”
On Obama:
CHARLIE ROSE: That brings me to President Obama. What are your observations about him?
LEE KUAN YEW: He’s a very great and eloquent man who is very persuasive and is very able and has appointed very able people into his key positions. And what impressed me most is his appointing people of different minds.
For instance, on his economic team, there is Summers Paul Volcker, and they’re both very strong minded people.
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Watch the interview on Bloomberg TV this coming Monday at 7PM Singapore, or
Watch the interview on TOC Youtube channel.
Click here for the full transcripts on TOC’s Facebook page.
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whoever said authoritarian governors must be tyrants needs to get his/her head checked, and the facts right. if the progress of europe over the last 5 centuries came at the price of tyrannical authoritarianism and tremendous sufferings for the common men and women, then i don’t want to live under a non-authoritarian regime. i mean, work it out mates, progress over liberties? whoever with half a brain would favour the former!
come on guys, there’s always going to be two sides to every thing. what’s not to like about our present situation? who’s to say the system won’t continue working into the far future, with minor tweaks to stay relevant and competitive?
vote out pap
“if the progress of europe over the last 5 centuries came at the price of tyrannical authoritarianism and tremendous sufferings for the common men and women,”
Post hoc ergo propter hoc, mate.
Progress resulted there as their people threw out tyrannical authoritarianism and not because the latter has a positive claim to the subsequent progress as you seem to suggest.
“i mean, work it out mates, progress over liberties?”
progress and liberties, mate.
“who’s to say the system won’t continue working into the far future,”
it sure will work but for whom, mate.
“with minor tweaks to stay relevant and competitive?”
tell us who you are suggesting should do the tweaking, mate (or half-bra??)
I think there probably is ONE and only ONE Ukrainian serving.
MIW [with black heart] are trying very hard in cahoots with MSM to protray that PRs and newbies are not taking us for a ride.
I know of many PR that have been here for 30 or more years.
There are about 600,000 and counting–as a percentage of population this must be the highest in the world. WHY?
There should be a 10 years expiry date on PR status—convert or go home.
Finance Minister Tharman Shanmugaratnam said “People do want to know, there is curiosity, it is a matter of public interest. That is not sufficient reason to disclose information. It is not sufficient that there be curiosity and interest that you want to disclose information.”
They are supposed to be accountable to the people. Instead we get answers like this in parliament. There is no transparency.
Putting members of the opposition in parliament will give us the answer we want.
Let’s be honest foreigner don’t want to become citizens. The Shitty Times presents Singapore as a utopia to the outside world but foreigners are fully aware of the situation here.
Would a foreigner want to live in a place where you have to pay over $300,000 to buy a flat of only 90 sq m?. Would they want to trade their freedom to live in one of the most repressive country after North Korea?
Most of the foreigners are here to make a quick dollar and leave.
New Era —fully agree with you.
Only Sink-a-poreans are SUNK in this place
Have you notice how the no. 155 MSM try to publcise about Coco LEE. Gong LEE, Jet LEE getting their PRs etc.
I think if they can, they will offer Bruce LEE post-humous PR status.
Is there a commonality here or is there a TAX angle.
Fact remains —the EXODUS of NS-served true-blue will never stop..
Who wants to defend a five star hotel for the rich and famous where the jobs being created are Croupiers and chambermaids
#73 Prophet Kongming
You are right to a certain extent. If the defence spending can be cut by reducing the pay of SAF regulars, the GST and income tax can also be cut as well. These SAF regulars do not deserve to be pay more than the civilian sector. If the defence spending, GST and income tax can be cut by reducing the pay of the SAF regulars, only 30,000 SAF regulars will suffer, but 3 million Singaporeans can benefit from the lower GST and income tax, especially the lower income group.
Good loh. When you insert lots of foreigners into the army and the population, why would other countries attack us?
We belong to China, India, Malaysia already and….now Ukraine is going to have a share. Only one country in the world allows itself to be invaded so easily….OURS.
This is insanity.
Can you trust the foreigners in the same platoon as you is going to guard your back? or stab your back? I chill to think I may need to fight beside them.
Regarding a comment about having a “checker” to our government somewhere in this forum
Actually, i am more worried at the prospect of having a 2 party or multi-party system to “check” on each other. When that happens, government will not be able to think and focus on our future. Singapore is so small, we cant emboil ourselves in politics like Taiwan or US. Taiwan is a good example of what may happen to Singapore if a 2 party system.
To the LKY haters again..
If the LKY/government is a corrupted bunch, or not up to the job, then it is partly your fault for not starting a revolution against them even if there is a risk of being bankurpted or killed in the process..since your life is so hard and death is better than life under the PAP right? I urge you to do something about it.
Ironically, if we do not have LKY and a 1 party Singapore, i dare not think what will happen to our Singapore. Luck or misfortune to have LKY? Many people will argue and there will be endless views. But we have to be realistic….what are the odds for another person to be our leader and do what LKY had done from 1959? What are the odds? Ask yourself honestly.
OK. So assuming we agree on a 1 party 1 leader approach. We want to best man on the job right? This godly person must have the courage to come out and doing something about the situation right? Why is he not standing out to organise something?
My reason is that the smartest people of the highest integrity with leadership even better LKY somewhere out there in Singapore feels that life is too good and it is not necessary to oppose and to intervene. If life is really that hard in Singapore, these people MUST stand out… They have to because i want my leaders to be self-respecting people, who know they must fight back if hurt or else they are not worth it anyway. There is absolutely no excuse. And since this person is better than LKY, he should be able to convince the people that LKY is a dictator anyway.
Therefore i conclude that if life that hard that the government is doing something really wrong, then there must be a revolution; the people is partly responsible. Not just whining about the government. No excuse. Period.
LKY haters are a disillusioned bunch that do not understand the realities of life. No government is perfect in their judgement on everything. At least in my opinion, the goverment is not complacent and are conituning to improve Singapore.
Hi GuoXin,
Don’t worry on 2 party or multi-party system to “check” on each other lah. When I’m a kid, my dad/mom always “check” on me. Now is my wife to “check” on me. Finance auditor/internal auditor/ISO auditor also “check” on my work every year. Well, I’m clean so I have no worried to be “check”. Honestly, I am worried if they don’t “check” on me…haha! Despite all these “check”, my life still goes on and focusing.
However, when you said “When that happens, government will not be able to think and focus on our future”, do you mean our government have a lot of thing to hide and cannot be “check” for the past 50 yrs under LKY and 1 party? You sound like you know something….can share?
The SAF should bring in more foreign talents, since they are cheaper. Hence, Singaporeans don’t have to pay so much GST and income tax to support the SAF regulars. Singaporeans too expensive to be employed as SAF regulars. Hmm… maybe we should also have foreign talents as our ministers… since they are cheaper
he is right in one thing. we are better off, more educated than our parents. looking at other se countries, cannot deny that fact.
110) Guoxin
As much as Taiwan’s economy is bad. They have something very important we do not. The possess love for their country.
We are diluted to such extent that we have zero national identity. We are empty.
In the recent typhoon disaster, I was amazed at how the national bounded together in their time of adversity. Their unity is so great that even China would need to think thrice before attacking them.
Us? A third of our population would run away at the first sign of trouble.
Can we honestly claim we have a good economy? Foreigners are responsible for almost half of our national GDP. Foriegners makes money, gov gets taxes but do we really benefit? Some locals perhaps….get a trickle of the wealth.
It is like how the gov does it for sports. Import foreign talent to win medals for soccer, olympics, etc, and claim Singapore won. I cower in shame of my country’s shamelessness.
Pls do not insult Taiwan by comparing SG with them.
//then it is partly your fault for not starting a revolution against them even if there is a risk of being bankurpted or killed in the process..since your life is so hard and death is better than life under……………………………………//
Now this is very very difficult to do given the many many years of conditioning. Life is not so extremely hard for most to the extent that they literally have no option but to rob or steal in order to survive and that goes the real nub of the problem.
1) Condition to fear.
2) Enough to survive
3) Divide and rule (e.g one-man assembly) – no chance for like-minded people to congregate.
3) Exercise the stick on those who misbehave (kill the chicken to scare off the other monkeys who dare to try) through “law” & enforcement which the uniformed guys will be naively enthusiastic to show that they are good guys.
And what do we get here, ……….
Please remember the chiding on our complacency……… and you will know why something is not right about the whole affair of things, if you have still not waken up.
“My reason is that the smartest people of the highest integrity with leadership even better LKY somewhere out there in Singapore feels that life is too good and it is not necessary to oppose and to intervene. If life is really that hard in Singapore, these people MUST stand out…”
let me guess (taking a risk), you must be a young chap to have said this.
From the many 116 comments so far, it looks like many are looking forward to attending the funeral of LKY.
110) Guoxin on October 28th, 2009 12.10 am
There are none so blind as those who will not see.
Like the mediacorp advert says “hear only the good things.”
“Police guard staff after Tiger passengers left stranded”
Why was this screw-up not reported in our local media? Tiger Airways is getting a bad reputation for leaving passengers stranded. People here have a right to know how shabbily it treats its passengers.
http://www.theage.com.au/travel/travel-news/police-guard-staff-after-tiger-passengers-left-stranded-20091026-hg17.html
Hi facetheFact,
What i mean is that if there is a 2 party system, the government will spend alot of thier energies on domestic politics rather than focusing about the future. Just take for example from Taiwan’s news and media, i see that the taiwanese people and govenment emboil in domestic politics and personal attacks on each other in thier parliments. Their news are extensively on domestic issues, hence i do not believe that many taiwan people or even thier politicians understands the long term issues for their country with regard to this world. I say these and i speak for myself and these are my views only.
In Singapore we have political stability. We can spend our energies and effort into thinking of our future, repositioning ourselves in this world, changing our policies, improving everytime. This is why i said “When that happens, government will not be able to think and focus on our future”. No other hidden meaning.
I am objective and i refuse to bring up separate issues to judge the government or to discredit LKY. I look at the government as a whole, the bigger picture. Whether the government have the best intention for Singapore or not, everybody have different views based on his/her life and experience in Singapore and i respect that. But i may not agree also.
Hi Bitter Singaporean,
I agree that we do not have a strong identity. I am not trying to insult Taiwan. But i look at it objectively and i feel that they are going in the wrong direction. Economy is the root of all thier problems. For the individual, if you dont have a work and cannot support your family, how does freedom of speech help you in life? Freedom to me is your ability to make choices of as many things as possible in life.
I agree with you that Singapore do not have a strong national identity. But Singapore’s government is always trying. Nation-building is a step by step process. We cannot expect ourselves to get there at the highest level over 50 years. Look at America’s history, the civil war, the slaveries, the black racism. This is thier long history and it take few hundred years to have this sort of history. Hence we have to remind ourselves of what is our starting point and be realistic.
Singapore is still a young country. We start off as a immgrant land and still is an immigrants land atm. We may forever be a immigrant country becuase of our small size. This are the realities in Singapore. This is the sort of nation we are. We have to always depend on talent from outside to survive. It take many generations to form a sense of nation identity in our people and Singapore is still in transition. Will we ever get there? Nobody knows. I cannot say for every Singaporean, but at least for me, i have faith that we will get there someday if we keep trying. It is good that Singaporeans is unhappy about our general lack of a sense of national spirit. This shows that we care. The question is whether we take this as a positive energy to build on this spirit or identity, or as a negative energy to quit on Singapore.
Guoxin,
seriously, if all you could do is specifically select a particular country as a example to strengthen your argument, I afraid you still have a lot to learn. So in the world, the only example you can choose to show that 2 party system doesn’t work is Taiwan’s parliament’s rowdy behaviour ? Have you seen Australia’s parliament debate ?
Why not go to Youtube and watch how first world parliament conduct debate, of how incumbent and opposition party can co-exist and debate constructively ?
Political stability is nothing if everything is swept under the carpet and echelon living in state of self-denial. Sooner or later, those skeletons in the closet will be uncovered. Singapore’s political stability comes about when people becoming YES-man and not questioning sensitive and political issues , but then for how long ? There is no future if Singapore still run as monarchy manage by elite family who think that they know better, and continue to act likewise, preferring to entrench themselves in power and wealth as long as possible. Yes, bullshitting and rhetoric seem to be priority for the government nowadays.
“I am objective and i refuse to bring up separate issues to judge the government or to discredit LKY.”
How can you even say that you are been objective when you don’t even question the government and the policy, especially the so-claimed father of Singapore ?
If you do not even question critically, let’s not even talk about having view and open society.
How different are you from LKY who link accountability to surrounding buildings around you ?
Hi our fault again?,
Thank you for your feedback. I can feel your sentiments of many Singaporean about the sense of fear we have to oppose. But to a certain extent, i still feel it is a excuse. If you feel strongly about something and think that you have a better way to solve the problems of Singapore and to govern better, then you must “break the cycle”. It is not going to be easy. Almost nothing is easy in life.
This kind of “breaking the cycle” mindset i think LKY is feeling when he formed the party. Because he think that he can achieve a better life for Singaporeans than the British. And so he play by the rules in those times and win over the people. To me, it is quite ridiculous to say he do this for himself after what he done. Honestly, it is a big sacrifice. Can you imagine yourself spending your lifetime doing this? I am not convinced by what people say that he do it for money and power by the way i see him live his life even till today. I think that it is ridiculous to say that he do it for personal gain. To say it bluntly, i think that it is ungrateful.
LKY himself had showed that it can be done. If you feel strongly about something, you have to risk you life to break through the cycle and show to the people you are right and you are better.
Hi daniel,
Thanks for your insight. I see you point about me not being able to provide wide-ranging examples to support my argument for 1 party system. You are right, i am not a expert in what is best style of government. But what i feel is that there is no real best way of govenment in this world. What i should say is we need to have government that fits the our social fabric, and the sort of nation we are with regards to this world.
We are a small country of a small population of different race and religion with no natural resources surrounded in this uncertain and ever changing world. After 50 years, are you really sure Singaporean are ready to go ahead with the democratic processes? Yes for many of us that are educated, we can handle it and we can debate constructively for the better Singapore. But is it true for the majority in Singaporeans? Are we getting ahead of ourselves here?
I am not advocating the spirit of not opposing the govenment. I just hope that people are more contructive in their protests against policies. We as individuals looks at things that affect us directly. The goverment look at things that impact all the people.
Lastly, I do not always agree with what the LKY do. For one, i dont agree that LKY should sue his enemies to bankrupcy. In my opinion it is bad for the reputation of the government. I think that LKY should have a little faith in the people to know who is right and wrong. But we cannot blame LKY for having self-respect right? What will you do if you are in the situation?
123) Guoxin on October 29th, 2009 1.19 am
Why do you think the incident about Tiger Airways leaving passengers stranded again, this time in Hobart, was not reported in the local MSM?
Is there something to hide?
To 122) Guoxin on October 29th, 2009 12.20 am
Thank you for your feedback. I can feel your sentiments of many Singaporean about the sense of fear we have to oppose. But to a certain extent, i still feel it is a excuse. If you feel strongly about something and think that you have a better way to solve the problems of Singapore and to govern better, then you must “break the cycle”. It is not going to be easy. Almost nothing is easy in life.
>> In my opinion, when you start voting the opposition, you are already breaking the cycle.
To 120) Guoxin on October 28th, 2009 11.41 pm,
Lastly, I do not always agree with what the LKY do. For one, i dont agree that LKY should sue his enemies to bankrupcy. In my opinion it is bad for the reputation of the government. I think that LKY should have a little faith in the people to know who is right and wrong. But we cannot blame LKY for having self-respect right? What will you do if you are in the situation?
>> Self-respect? Bankruptcy? Maybe you should read up on Operation ColdStore. I point you to a different source, wikipedia; I guess it will be more neutral.
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Coldstore
Extract from Wikipedia:
Were Barisan Sosialis and Lim Chin Siong communists?
However, with new archives opened up in London, evidence linking Lim Chin Siong and Barisan Sosialis to be communist seems vague at best. In other words, there was no direct evidence linking Lim Ching Siong and Barisan Sosialis to communist ideas.
Furthermore, according to Mathew Jones’ article, Operation Coldstore was more a barter deal as Tunku Abdul Rahman stated that he would not take in Singapore if the Borneo Territories were not given up by the British and if there was no detention of the radical leftists in Singapore.
Since SAF can have Ukrainians, the government should also recruit Malaysians and Indonesians into the army, to reduce the manpower cost of defence spending. If there is a war with Malaysia or Indonesia, then the Malaysian and Indonesian soldiers from SAF can fight their fellow Malaysians and Indonesians counterparts. Then Singaporeans don’t have to serve NS anymore! Kill 2 birds with 1 stone!
119) Guoxin
There are some people like you who can wait for the government to change and improve.
Then, there are those of us who can’t wait.
i)Pretty soon, I will be too old to buy a house, start a family and have kids. The housing prices are still going up up and away under the PAP administration. They consider it “affordable” and refuse to help.
ii)My job may not be safe as yours. Foreign grads are younger and cheaper can replace me. Experience of 3 years is good. More years of experience just means you are too old and …expensive. Yet, Lim Swee Say wants us to be even cheaper. I guess that means pay-cut or getting replaced by “foreign talent”
ii) Everything that makes us proud and makes us a country is disappearing:
a)Our reserves are being gambled away.
b)Our key national assets vital to our sovereignty (e.g. power stations) are sold away.
c)We have diminishing national identity.
d)Our SAF has foreigners. Soldier morale is low as PRs don’t have to serve and/or they have foreigners in their platoon.
e)Citizenship and PR are being handed out like worthless toilet paper.
f)Foreigners treat SG like a goldmine or a stepping stone with no respect.
I am happy for you that your life is secure enuf to wait. For me, it is a choice between survival/having a real country AND voting the PAP administration OUT.
To: 124) New Era
Agree that we must beware of those with hidden agendas.
The wise man questions all, including those who claim there is no need to question.
The wiser man questions those who claim to be questioners!
127) Bitter Singaporean on October 29th, 2009 12.10 pm 119) Guoxin
I am happy for you that your life is secure enuf to wait. For me, it is a choice between survival/having a real country AND voting the PAP administration OUT.
I agree, either we vote them OUT now or be prepared to face the consequence of booting ourselves out of this island or just waiting to die a natural death.
“But to a certain extent, i still feel it is a excuse. If you feel strongly about something and think that you have a better way to solve the problems of Singapore and to govern better, then you must “break the cycle”. It is not going to be easy. Almost nothing is easy in life.”
Excuse ? Are you joking ? Sounds like you are suggesting revolution. Or going the CSJ or JBJ way ? Anyway, it is easy for one brainless soldier holding a gun (big fat stick) to control 100 more intelligent principled unarmed civilians – if you still remember “send in the army should there be a freak election.” Now, did you mention excuse. Yes, you did.
Thank you for telling us that it is not going to be easy and almost nothing is easy in life, well i almost forget the ringing & yet gradual distant background noise of the big preaching that “we the citizens of ………. to build a DEMOCRATIC society…….”
The best thing is to abolish NS and there will be no shortage of labour and no need for FTs!
Hi #126) Dumb and dumber
IMO, Guoxin is suffering from xenophobia. Well, he is not alone and in fact, many Singaporean are suffering from xenophobia. Too much state media reporting on Taiwan parliament to intentionally create this xenophobia so as to tell people that we will like Taiwan parliament if more than 1 party in our parliament. Most of them fail to see that our current opp party sitting in Parliament, have behave and performing well.
Mr Clinton said: “His work as Prime Minister and now as Minister Mentor has helped literally millions of people from Singapore and all across Southeast Asia live better, more prosperous lives.”
Mr Bush said: “All of us who have worked with him have benefited from his wisdom, his insight and his dedication.”
more properous lives for who? for the ministers all over the whole?
all of them have work for him have benefits billions of dollars for singaporeans pocket of hard work into lky hand and given away to foreign countries.
his dedication is all about towards his own familee.
those foreign country not excited about his archivement but excited and happy of what LKY is going to offer them and each of them offer LKY to thier country,it is like you scratch my back i scratch your back. money make money. but for who? all this years.
LKY is advicing all over the country with his brainwash tactics..to give and gain. you believe that lky do something for free?? a big NO!
what do singaporeans benefit from our goverment archivement all this years? he received a award lately. so that means he had archive and still when ask about singaporeans future. he will say he doesn’t know and we still have to wait for good times and we strive together as a singaporean to archive the gold.
the gold that will soon drop into lky hand and distribute to foreigns for an exchange of wealth for the benefit of thier own and we singaporeans have to work harder for the next gold.
so we dig the gold they benefit from it. all this year just imagine how many golds have we dug out with our sweat and blood?? our old folk from back days till now struggling?
enough of their fairy tales. we singaporeans are asking what they have done with our money and about our people. but lky is busy with foreign issue and to advice them. still travelling around the world as usual when he face alot of questions he take a break and talk co@k in foreign country. so our money again taking his flight all over the world and yet years and years he is doing this!!
we had enough of his dirty heartless tricks!
we will vote pap out this time for real! do not under estimate us for our quiteness. wait till the day come and he will be shock of his entire life as not only hundreds are waiting to vote him out but thousands and thousand here are waiting for the day to come
the army is serve by ukranians? ok maybe ukranians,china national, india national,africans,americans and so on.
do you singaporeans know what the risk here? we are not talking about short term in 2years to 3years but 10years to come.
we would no longer have our right as a singaporeans our motherland have been lease to foreign country and LKY is collecting the rent every month and would not bother what singaporeans have to say. simple to say he trade our singapore in exchange for his own interest.
if we still do not do something about this then there is many other issue that will become worst and singaporeans will suffer more and simply will be in the hand of foreigners as they have the rights over us in singapore!
foreign country ministers will dip their hands into singaporeans pocket very soon too.
so where do we singaporeans stands? guess what in the sh!t hole.
think of your future singaporeans..,think wisely. think of your own motherland.
this land belong to us.
by all means and what ever the pappies got to say this time let them say. but we singaporeans got one thing to say
WE WILL VOTE YOU OUT OF OUR MOTHERLAND!
this country doesn’t really belongs to you LKY! it belongs to all of us. you are the guardian to hold our hands and we to support you but things had gone too wild as you are not being a guardian but more like a gambler
kudos to those who believe a two party system is likely to result in constructive debates a la Australia. I admire your unbound optimism. any politician in the world who claims he/she is willing to lay all the cards on the table for any and all checks is a bloody liar, not to mention a true nitwit, plain and simple. hell, even I, a common citizen, has things to hide.
regarding foreigners in our country. well, deter them from coming and your income and my income will plunge, for sure. who’re the ones with knowledge? who’re the ones with drive and motivation? well I have these too, but not as much as the ‘hungry’ ones from overseas. they want to make a quick buck and return to their countries. Singaporeans do that too (at least where leaving the homeland to make a quick buck elsewhere is concerned). this is globalisation people, wake up.
to those who will vote for the opposition simply because the PAP is doing a poor job (from their point of view) and putting a stranglehold on local politics, do us a favour and snap out of it. in terms of talent, there’s no comparison. in terms of experience, none too. in terms of quality and integrity of governance, they are totally unproven. infact, the fact they are crazy enough to mount an opposition in the first place is proof they are unfit to be entrusted with worldly affairs of governance. the best citizens will leave governance to the elite class of philosopher kings (or the closest approximation of it anyway). Top class education of Oxbridge/ivy league calibre is definitely a must, and I wouldn’t dream of being able to contribute much to governance given my pathetic college records. so what makes the opposition think they can?
Hi #135) sickandtired
Any CEO won’t want auditor to check so he can drain money into his pocket. Any TP won’t want CPIB to check so he can corrupt. Any robber won’t want police to check so he can rob. People won’t want custom officer to check so they can bring illegal stuff into the country. A common citizen like you, if you kill someone, invade tax, corruption, rape, gun possession etc etc. The top class education of Oxbridge/ivy league calibre government will check on you and put you on jail. So you better report yourself to police now what are you hiding.
Our ruling party has developed our nation to ensure one is checking on another regardless are you a behaving citizen or not. Because they are aware that we are human being (are the top class education of Oxbridge/ivy league calibre government human being?), we have the tendency of commit crimes and we will want to hide our crimes. I admire your gut.
As for foreigners in our country. I disagree with our ruling party and I think they are totally incompetent. We should have at least 10 millions population by now and at least additional 5 millions population in next 5 yrs. Our HDB should be worth at least $1 million dollars and private property should worth multi-million dollars if our ruling party is smart enough. Don’t you agree that you would like to see our asset growth?
And your last point which I need to help you on Singapore History of General Election. Let’s turn back the clock to 1948.
20 March 1948, to elect six members to the Legislative Council :
- Singapore Progressive Party (SPP) won three seats
- Remaining seats went to Independent candidates.
The second Legislative Council election was held in March 1951 for nine seats:.
- SPP won six seats
- Singapore Labour Party (SLP) won two
- Last seat was won by an Independent candidate
1955 elections, 25 seats;
- Labour Front won10 seats
- People’s Action Party (PAP), which fielded four candidates, won three seats
(seat won by Lim Chin Siong, LKY, Goh Chew Chua)
- Progressive Party won four seats
- UMNO-MCA won three seats
- Democratic Party won two seats
- Independents won three seats respectively
PAP started off as opposition. Without the foresight and wisdom of our forefather (apparently you lack of which we need FT to compensate) voting for opposition , Singapore and PAP will not be as of today.
So what makes the opposition think they can’t?
134) sickandtired on October 30th, 2009 12.50 am
Well it is clear you are sick!!
You should be posted your comments on P65.
Finance Minister Tharman Shanmugaratnam said ” People do want to know, there is curiosity, it is a matter of public interest. That is not sufficient reason to disclose information. It is not sufficient that there be curiosity and interest that you want to disclose information.”
This is not the type of Ministers we want. We have set higher standards for our Ministers. You have lower standards.
So you’re saying its okay to bring in 5 million cheap foreign imports to take over our jobs. We can just stay at home an collect welfare? Wake up! Your must be one of those foreigners or YPAP. We are not naive as you. As you said you have many things to hide.
I want my Ministers and MPs to serve the electorate first. The may have 10 PHDs but if they are looking after themselves, it is no use to me. I rather have a sincere opposition in power who will take care of my interest. Again you have set very low standards for your Ministers.
134) sickandtired
Please share with us your wisdom.
How many foreigners do your political masters want to bring into Singapore. 7 million or 8 million? What happens when the economy is still growing and our population hits 8 million? Do we bring in another 2 or 3 million?
What happens when there is an economic meltdown when our population hits 8 million? What happens when most of the MNCs pull out? Do we have enough jobs for everyone then? Our ministers looked completely helpless in the current recession. What makes you think they can do better in the next recession when our population is 8 million?
What about our water needs? Do we have enough water to quench the thirst of 8 million people? What happens in a drought? Who gets priority for the little water left? Our Ministers or the people?
What about our food needs. We currently import 90% of our food supply? With 8 milion people we may need to import 99% of our food. Is this a good thing?
What about the huge numbers of foreigners in our midst? With a population of 8 million, there will probably be more PRCs than locals here? Is that a good thing? How do we know they won’t form a political party and elect their own people into parliament.?
How do we know the PRCs won’t stage an incident so that China can intervene here? Is it good to have so many foreigners whose loyalty is to their homeland?
Please give us the answers. Or as the Americans would say, “Put up or Shut up.”
“infact, the fact they are crazy enough to mount an opposition in the first place is proof they are unfit to be entrusted with worldly affairs of governance. the best citizens will leave governance to the elite class of philosopher kings (or the closest approximation of it anyway).”
Another piece of sh**, trying to prop up something to the level of the sky and maintain exclusivity. You have given the impression that you are plainly foolish & blind not to see the fact that counter-checking (in the form of opposition) is the best way to ensure “worldly affairs of governance”.
Elite class of philosopher kings are human too and who knows what they will do behind your back – even you, as a common citizen (where your dirt is not as costly to anyone except to yourself or your close ones), have things to hide.
i fully agree with all who said that elite class of governors are but humans too, and who knows what they’ll do behind our backs. i said too that those governors who say they have nothing to hide are liars and nitwits. is anybody going to disagree on this point? are there countries where corruption is non-existent? is obama, brown, rudd, or hu jintao going to say, i have absolutely nothing to hide, I will give my people nothing but the truth?
my point is, we are all humans, citizens and governors alike, all prone to human failings. except there are some humans less flawed than others, more superior than others. i mean, you can’t deny that. is anyone confident enough to say the calibre of the current opposition is on par with the ruling party’s? can the current opposition stand tall alongside world leaders? unless the top pap members defect to the opposition (which would be laughably foolish), i don’t see that happening anytime soon (not for another 2 generations). let me remove the idealisitc notion of politics many of you have. politics is a matter of appearances and style, it’s about placating your people via rhetoric. it’s not about the age old republican ideal of leaders serving their people selflessly for low wages. Whoever keeps up the best appearance wins in politics. just look at obama, brilliant image of brains and style. i mean, that man was born to wear a suit. his approval ratings may be dropping, but you can bet your last dollar he’s going to win a second term (provided he doesn’t meet with some fatal accident during his first time).
As for foreigners, let’s be clear. it’s a problem with no easy solution, otherwise we’d be the only country facing this. EVERY country faces immigration problems. sure, we can curb the number of foreigners coming in. that’s easy to do, but how easy is it to bear the consequences? are we going to do it australian style, where only foreign talent, and not foreign workers, are allowed to work? then fine, our people will do the mid-low level jobs that in the long term raises the cost of living. you have any idea how high the maintenance fees are that australians have to pay? sure, we can have curb the influx of talent instead. but do we have enough talent of our own to supplement our demand for it? it’s a mathematical scenario. small population = small amount of talent. the bigger the country, the higher probability of talent occurring among the people. don’t give me the argument that each of us are talented in our own way, that’s again an idealistic and unrealisitc way of looking at things.
“any politician in the world who claims he/she is willing to lay all the cards on the table for any and all checks is a bloody liar, not to mention a true nitwit, plain and simple. hell, even I, a common citizen, has things to hide.”
You have said it yourself. So for incumbent uncommon higher mortals, what do you think ?
That is why we need at least two to check on one another, to blow the whistle loudly if necessary (only if necessary). How are you going to sound off the alarm if the alarm is not even there.
Now, who is the true nitwit, plain and simple.
//sickandtired
experience of the PAP?
As if experience matter in Politics in Singapore? Basically it is LKY decide.
Voting in the opposition to make the PAP work harder is the way because if >1 million salary does work to make them work effectively, the penalty of losing 1 million would.
////sickandtired
on your who got more motivation crap, that’s why abled Singaporeans left Singapore to work in Australia in the west, in the first place.
“i mean, you can’t deny that. is anyone confident enough to say the calibre of the current opposition is on par with the ruling party’s? can the current opposition stand tall alongside world leaders? unless the top pap members defect to the opposition (which would be laughably foolish), i don’t see that happening anytime soon (not for another 2 generations).”
No guarantee. But definitely they can perform the job of a good alarm bell, another reason for being voted in.
“As for foreigners, let’s be clear. it’s a problem with no easy solution, otherwise we’d be the only country facing this. EVERY country faces immigration problems.”
Let other countries (EVERY country) have & love their own problems which they have created and deal with their own problems which are non of our business. It is ours that are impacting us more that we are more concerned.
“it’s a mathematical scenario. small population = small amount of talent. the bigger the country, the higher probability of talent occurring among the people. don’t give me the argument that each of us are talented in our own way, that’s again an idealistic and unrealisitc way of looking at things.”
Well, if you treat citizens like mathematics, then the citizens shall treat those policy makers like mathematics (digits) which are very costly by any international measure.
Of course standing from the perspective of an individual who is at the receiving end of whatever negative consequence that may befall each of us in our own country, one should just ensure that he is very much ‘counted’ (maths right ?) in the whole greater scheme of things, in so far that one may be just treated as an insignificant digit (lesser mortal & not as talented as FT) to be moved around.
I just love maths and the whole equation of giving differential viewpoints.
I observe a strange pattern of thought amongst sinkees when it comes to voting for the opposition. Many people will not vote for them just because ‘they cannot form a new government’. Of course they cannot! They cannot until they gain gradual foothold and learn to deal with problems at the governing level.
The alternative is worse – more suffering under PAP rule. Are sinkees really willing to accept that, as opposed to some HOPE for a better government, perhaps slowly??
I’ve seen that Ukrainian boy during one of my RT training a few years’ back at Bedok Camp – i.e. he’s a PTI there (read : non-combat role)
Big deal
Singapore is Rich. Due to Hard works & Wise Policy by PAP Govt.
Tikam Tikam Opposition just want to steal & put their hand “IN” for a Get Rich Scheme.