24/10/09

Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew said Obama Administration has appointed people of different minds (this I take it not necessaary Elites which we are having in the PAP government). Ordinary Singaporeans also have different minds which are more relevants than Elites, and they succeeded especially those Old Guards with him, all were Ordinary Singaporeans. Elites don’t go down to the people ie the Rakyat and the people or Rakyat must go to see them and today, many of the Elites are out of touch with reality in Singapore ie hardship and seeing and believing there are Have Nots in Singapore

Regards
Andrew Chuah

LEE KUAN YEW: The means — I had the consent and support of the population. If they opposed me and they did not cooperate, it wouldn’t have worked.

Looks like in the past, he did not need the consent of the people since he said that the number of people opposing him is endless, yet he can still push through his agenda.
Now, he says he has the consent and support of the “Population” and not “Citizens”. Looks like it will be the wishes of the more than 2 million foreigners “population” that he will be basing his wishes on for support.

Obama also brought in people from opposing camps. But the PAP govt blocks the Opp at every step to deny them a platform. Witness the LUP at PP and HG. They can’t even simply enlist the WP MP and SDA MP to participate in the announcements because of bipartisan politics.

LKY talked abt endless numbers opposing him in his early years. He ignored the fact tht he wasnt in the ruling govt yet. He was fighting the British and he was involved in in-fighting with the other rivals in PAP and MCP for a future govt. But once he captured power, he overturned everything and put all his rivals in jail so he can have absolute power and absolutely smooth sailing so that whatever he said went and there was no debate abt it.

Eh? I recall LKY was not particularly kind with his comments about then Presidential-Candidate Obama …

CHARLIE ROSE: You were in control of everything.

LEE KUAN YEW: No.

CHARLIE ROSE: Yes you were, you know that.

In other words, you are NO diff from Hitler, Stalin, Kim-Jong iL, Empress Dowager and all the EVIL tyrants !

opportunist, manipulative, lack of leadership, lack of originality, lack of creativity, lack of independent thinking, selfish, lazy, forever counting on others, inconsiderate, show no interest in welfare of others, only good at making useless remarks.

Pls lah, don’t always slam ‘elites’ can or not? Not all oppositions are ah bengs hor. Not all PAP ppl are elites ok. Some sucks.

Just go Young PAP facebook, you will know. Got one SEAR simi eh, not smart, not from elite school, rejected by ex-colleagues and bosses, but still action liao liao. can’t even discuss policies with intelleigent, alweays answer with more questions, to hide his ignorance. Keep insulting another guy when tt guy give logical althernative views. insult his father mother, insult his girlfriend, insult his credential, blah blah blah

This is the kind of ppl you all go slam lah! why slam elites? slam tis kind of PAP ah beng lah. let him go into power, all die sia.

“We now have Ukrainians serving in the army” – Lee Kuan Yew

Yes, along with about 100 different nationalities. Filipinos, Burmese, Thai, Indonesians, Malaysians, Indian nationals, China nationals, Koreans, Japanese, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, Kenyans, Nigerians and probably a handful of talibans.

In fact the Chief of General Staff of China’s People’s Liberation Army (PLA) Chen Bingde is now in Singapore to brief the 3,000 China nationals serving in the Singapore Armed Forces. What next? A Filipino general coming here to brief his countrymen serving in the Armed Forces here.

As if having scholar officers wasn’t enough, now we have this. We are becoming the laughing stock of the whole world.

CHARLIE ROSE: You were in control of everything.

LEE KUAN YEW: No.

CHARLIE ROSE: Yes you were, you know that.

(LAUGHTER)

LEE KUAN YEW: The numbers of people opposing me, including the communists in the very early years, was endless.

==========================================================

When confronted with hard question, laugh it off, or give irrelevant answer.

THE SIGN OF A HABITUAL LIAR!

Any chance the questions have been pre-selected just like those questions at the NUS forum? Nowadays, just can’t believe anything relating to this old man! So fake!

This guy Charlie is so fond of interviewing him. He must have such a high regard for LKY. LKY makes sense most of the time except those views he held against dissent. Well, the results of his policies are plain for everyone to see. Without dissent and without hearing the views of the citizens, we end up bringing 2 million foreigners. Almost 200k Singaporeans are working overseas now. I doubt they are foreign talent head hunted by overseas company. It’s more likely they go overseas searching for better opportunities. PAP succeeded in pushing out it’s local citizens. It may be true that humans are replaceable. It remains to be seen whether the rising tensions over foreigners will reach boiling points or have a significant impact on their performance at the polls. Singaporeans might have the last laugh after all.

Honestly, for once, I support the govt policy of paying $3M of tax payers’ money annually to MM.

Pls, dun get me wrong, not that I am supporting paying him to retire with an endless slew of perks such as first class travel to countless countries, first class health care, limousine transport, servants at his beck and call, and possibly a coffin to be made of pure silver/gold upon his demise.

But, alas, all the perks have now proven their worth. His travel to US this time has exposed his ultra weakness. He is totally defenseless when almost labelled as a “dictator” point blank by Charlie Rose, for the entire world to watch.

Good for him and us, more travels to the US please ! We dun mind paying him more at the expense of more jobless and sufferings here.

I don’t think it is fair to compare LKY to the likes of Hitler and co.

His initial rise and contribution to Singapore are undeniable, even if it did raise some concerns with the population then (e.g. HDB). It is really what these policies have evolved into that has us concerned because they no longer appear sustainable in the long term.

Unfortunately, there are few opposition parties’ members who have the guts of what LKY and co had in the past to work out practical solutions quickly to stand up to the rest in parliament. I understand there are bureaucracy, but the idea that the opposition parties should still be so quiet in this time of the internet is laughable. Would TOC be willing to publish articles (or legally able to?) or columns by these opposition? I would vote for them if they expand outside of their own websites and have great ideas because PAP pretty much has traditional media on their side.

But we hear only a peep from them every once in a while, and it is hard for me to cast my vote for them in the grander scheme of things. Even though I want change in the government, I like my MP (Teo Chee Hean) too much to want to vote him out of office currently. And what are the opposition parties’ ideas should Singapore actually collectively elect them to power? Because with the quiet opposition, PAP is the lesser of two evils. :\

I don’t want Singapore politics to have to come to what BNP is in the UK right now, disgruntlement of dominant party resulting in blind votes for what seems to be the way out of the current situation. We need policies and ideas, not mere ideologies.

Back to the topic on hand: LKY is still a decent representative for Singapore in the rest of the world. No complaints.

Why is it that these days, whenever I see LKY whether on TV or newspaper, I have the urge throw my shoe at him and spit in his face?
So sad. I used to admire him a lot.

Why is it that these days, whenever I see LKY speaks on TV, I will have a visual image of shit coming out from his mouth?
So sad. I used to enjoy listening to him.

Why is it that these days, I like to curse him and wish the worst for him.
So sad. I used to pray that he enjoys good health and longevity.

So sad. So sad.

Uncensored answers to questions by Charlie Rose ??

CHARLIE ROSE: You’ve never had a moment where you thought Singapore was too authoritative did you? Not one moment?

LKY : I make no apologies that the PAP is the Government and the Government is the PAP.

CHARLIE ROSE: So the end justifies the means whatever it might be ?

LKY : If you are a troublemaker…it’s our job to politically destroy you. Put it this way. As long as JB Jeyaretnam stands for what he stands for – a thoroughly destructive force – we will knock him. Everybody knows that in my bag I have a hatchet, and a very sharp one. You take me on, I take my hatchet, we meet in the cul-de-sac.

CHARLIE ROSE: A good life and their children to do better than they did ?

LKY : We must encourage those who earn less than $200 per month and cannot afford to nurture and educate many children never to have more than two… We will regret the time lost if we do not now take the first tentative steps towards correcting a trend which can leave our society with a large number of the physically, intellectually and culturally anaemic.”

CHARLIE ROSE: You were in control of everything ?

LKY : I am often accused of interfering in the private lives of citizens. Yes, if I did not, had I not done that, we wouldn’t be here today. And I say without the slightest remorse, that we wouldn’t be here, we would not have made economic progress, if we had not intervened on very personal matters – who your neighbour is, how you live, the noise you make, how you spit, or what language you use. We decide what is right. Never mind what the people think.

** famous words of L K Y.

http://leewatch.info/quotes/

LKY is aggressively promoting China around the world lately, that probably put China President Hu Jintao in shame. But Hu Jintao will have the last laugh too because free promotion and traveling expenses on SG tax payer’s money.

LEE KUAN YEW:

“There are two rules of law in China, one for the ordinary citizen and
the other for 76 million members of the Communist Party. And the judges
will do what they know what the leaders require to keep the country stable. ”

Does that sound familiar?

Ukrainians, Africans, Mexicans, Israelis, anyone also can lah, if they are willing to serve.

Never mind they may not be the best or have their own personal motives.

If we are choosy we may not get enough people to come here and Singapore will be finished.

So just get them in first, other things come second, even if things may go wrong later.

Most important, at elections ensure 50% walkovers, 66% mandate and 98% seats. This one cannot go wrong and MM Lee will make sure it will not go wrong.

CHARLIE ROSE: You were in control of everything.

LEE KUAN YEW: No.

CHARLIE ROSE: Yes you were, you know that.

(LAUGHTER)
==============================

LKY’s laughter tells us a lot !!!

MM has a lot of views on many nations, but he makes poor investment decisions using other people’s money. He is also selling citizenship, land and people. He leaves behind a lot of unhappiness and problems for his ministers to solve after he is gone.

Quote: And what are the opposition parties’ ideas should Singapore actually collectively elect them to power? Because with the quiet opposition, PAP is the lesser of two evils.

Because I’m too used to one brand of a particular product. I fear the possibility of getting undesirable results from trying another brand. So in the end, we have “customer royalty” which may or may not bring out the best in ourselves. Sometimes, it just take a big K.O. before everyone awakens. Take the case of Madoff, Allen Stanford, Sunshine Empire, etc.

To side track a bit. Some recent developments in our local scene have sent some chills through my spine. Calling for CPF top-ups, CPF Life, Temasek bond issue. Anybody who invest in public listed shares would share my concerns.

i cannot help but feel that , after watching the vids, there are many similarities between singapore system and china’s.

1. people’s heavy dependence on the gov.
2. centrality of control
3. elites under umbrella.

[i]CHARLIE ROSE: So the end justifies the means whatever it might be?

LEE KUAN YEW: No. The ends were laudable. Everybody wants the same ends. Everybody wants good education and good health.[/i]

fwah..luckee lauLEE so honest fro ONCED..1st time he says ‘NO’
indeed everybody wants the same treatment.. i tried tigerairways.com onced to ferry my great grandma from bataam to singapore on a flyin ambulance..
tigerairways.com asked me..who are you? hairry lee perhaps?
so in the end i had to hire a longboat with a pair of opversize oar to start rowin..
never make it kannaed hijack by tamil tigers refugees…

[i]Singaporean on October 24th, 2009 12.28 pm LEE KUAN YEW: The means — I had the consent and support of the population. If they opposed me and they did not cooperate, it wouldn’t have worked.

Looks like in the past, he did not need the consent of the people since he said that the number of people opposing him is endless, yet he can still push through his agenda.[/i]

onced somebody asked him the same question when bejing send in the tanks in tienannmen square to squash the students if he laulee would do the same..
laulee replied YES.. if he killed 200,000 nanyang students just to save 2 millions..
its a bargain!!!

How about an apology to president obama for jumping up to support Bush junior in the 2nd Gulf War ….. (and it’s on SG taxpayers’ money!)

He going to 86 years old. Still want to be around. When will he just keep quiet and enjoy his retirement. All this show that LHL is still not capable or not ready to run this country. Still need his father to cover for him in any form of crises or big issues. To sad to see all this kind arrangement. Vote LHL out and show LKY who we are the VOTERS in this coming elections.

Pretty diplomatic reply. Hahahahaha…

13) Ryvyan on October 24th, 2009 1.43 pm

I don’t think it is fair to compare LKY to the likes of Hitler and co.

coz you might the one of the million dollars earner that don’t have to complain or maybe your boat is sailing smooth maybe too smooth…, that you are not looking into others.

CHARLIE ROSE: You’ve never had a moment where you thought Singapore was too authoritative did you? Not one moment?

LEE KUAN YEW: My job was to get the place going and get every singaporeans under my feet for life and a minimum support of education. And we’re now the best goverment in the whole of east Asia. Our universities — we got three, four universities, fourth one coming up to support foreigners not singaporeans

CHARLIE ROSE: So the end justifies the means whatever it might be?

LEE KUAN YEW: No. The ends were laudable. Everybody wants the same ends? Everybody wants good education and good health? but i won’t allow that to happen. only the rich will the goverment support but the poor might find their own way to get what they want. i’m looking into earning millions and billions from singaporeans but i’m not looking into taking care of them..they are just a burden to the goverment.

CHARLIE ROSE: A good life and their children to do better than they did.

LEE KUAN YEW: The means — even do i have or not the consent and support of the population i will still in control of everything. If they opposed me and they did not cooperate, it wouldn’t let them survive and would chop every piece of singaporeans. guess singaporeans had not dare to opposed me the last 50years..,why? simple i’m in control of them!

CHARLIE ROSE: You were in control of everything.

LEE KUAN YEW: NO

CHARLIE ROSE: Yes you were, you know that.

LEE KUAN YEW: actually i’m not in control but i own singapore. singapore belongs to me and my familee. singaporeans are my slave to work out my billion dollars income. without me singaporeans are nothing.

LEE KUAN YEW: The numbers of people opposing me, including the communists in the very early years, was endless and i had put them down under my feet each every of them and step to death.

this include JBJ, i had simple kill him as he tries to make singaporeans live a better life and this should not happen!! and will not happen!! singaporeans should not be given a better life just mere a slave and just be like one.

His is a swinger, whoever wins, he swings like a pendulum. This year, he told many of us to learn Mandarin, before he said English was more important. He could have opposed Obama but now he is singing praises.

On opposing voices, Obama is a nobel prize winner and he is open minded. Here we in Singapore, we have people who never allow opposing mind and voices, not even for people in his own camp. To me, it is a joke, when he said that.

HaHa!

CHARLIE ROSE: That brings me to President Obama. What are your observations about him?

During the Amercian president elect, he looks down on Obama saying he is only a first term senator and he never has dreamed that Obama is the president. Now he started to change his tune. Chinese says ‘Eat Chicken go near to Chickens and eat duck go near to the ducks”

“Everybody wants good education and good health.” Wrong! Those were my grandfather time, not now. We can get good education in other part of the world. Still dont understand what we want?? What a failure.

“You cannot maintain your relevance by just staying put. The world changes.”

Seems like he is the only one who understand the world. Unfortunately, he does not understand Singaporeans, so how can he go to other part of the world to tell people about the world.???

CHARLIE ROSE: You were in control of everything.

LEE KUAN YEW: No.

CHARLIE ROSE: Yes you were, you know that.

(LAUGHTER) just to cover his evil doings. Thanks Charlie you have hit the point.

“We now have Ukrainians serving in the army”

We now have People Liberation Army (PLA) from China in our army also

Who pays for his trip to US and have this nonsense interview ? It is a waste of tax payers money, money not well spent.

#4 Lee Chee Wai on October 24th, 2009 12.37 pm
Eh? I recall LKY was not particularly kind with his comments about then Presidential-Candidate Obama

Yes, I recalled the same thing too. Just wondering what he’ll say to Presidnet Obama when they meet.

But then again, no worries, judging from his reply, as follows, to an earlier question by Charlie Brown, he is obviously well prepared.

“You cannot maintain your relevance by just staying put. The world changes. There are shifts in the geopolitics and the economics of the world. We have to watch it and ride it. You surf with them. As the surf comes this way you ride the surf. …”

Politics for the Dummies:

To be a great politician, first thing first: Be a chameleon.

My late dad once told me: “Judging from his gentle and kind look when waved his hand to the Red Guards at Tiananmen Square, how could one imagine Mao Zedong had killed so many (innocent & upright) people during the cultural revolution?”

What will I tell my son: “Son, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. This is true throughout the history, proven from ages to ages. You do not need to look far.”

CHARLIE ROSE: You were in control of everything.

LEE KUAN YEW: No.

CHARLIE ROSE: Yes you were, you know that.

(LAUGHTER)

_______________________________________________

er… i think we’ve all overlooked one point, a crucial one, too. and that is the fact that rose used the word ‘were’ in reference to lee’s totalitarian control. this is no accident since he (rose) used the same word again, after lee’s denial. plus, judging from his stature, rose is no rookie when it comes to the english language.

the meaning of such phrasing is open to guesses, i suppose.

The question I’d like to know is whether those Ukrainians will have my back during a war – or will they be at Changi airport awaiting the next flight home.

Fairweather new citizens is what we do not need right now – or ever.

Control freak, Lee Kuan Yew is.

The government calls them foreign talent but most are in fact foreign ‘trash’. Employers hire them because they are cheap. As a consequent service and productivity level have dropped. In worst cases, people or animals have been killed.

http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking%2BNews/Singapore/Story/STIStory_446118.html

As for me service is important and that is why I refuse to patronise shops that don’t employ Singaporeans. One day, when things become really bad, Singaporeans can act as one to ensure employers hire locals first.

He and his PAP aim to control every aspect of our lives for the past 43 years, yet he can simply openly deny this fact.

Even the Lift Up-grading announcement had to be assigned to his PAP cronies. What more do we need to see so clearly with?

What shameless hypocrite and great liar!

FaceTheFact on October 24th, 2009 2.59 pm quoted Lee Kuan Yew as saying:

Re: “There are two rules of law in China, one for the ordinary citizen and
the other for 76 million members of the Communist Party. And the judges
will do what they know what the leaders require to keep the country stable.”

He then posed this question:

Re: “Does that sound familiar?”

Since it’s a rhetorical question, I’ll move on to my point:

I counted three instances during the interview when Lee Kuan Yew spoke disparagingly of China, but were actually most apt for the Singapore that he himself fashioned. It also probably augments my explanation for the highly intensified relationship he forged with China; he was there as often as he was to teach China how to keep its own citizens under complete control. Unfortunately, of the three examples, the only that I can now remember is the same one quoted above.

All in all, Lee Kuan Yew seems to have taken on a more sober, realistic approach to world affairs in this interview even compared to his last interview with Charlie Rose just a couple of months back; despite the inevitable slips – probably after his decades-long habit in his capacity as China’s cheerleader, prime minister, senior minister, and now finally its minister mentor – he was no longer speaking of a China seen through his distorted, rose tinted lens and America as a goner and increasingly irrelevant.

I attribute this in no small part to all the criticism that he received domestically – including my own scathing ones.

Looking at the past history of China, Dr Sun, who really wants to serve the people and do the best for people never put power at the front of his mind. He willing give up power to Yuan or Chiang because he knows that will help in the revolution…so a true and great man like Dr Sun really does things for the people and didn’t seek to accumulate power to himself.

Look at how history remember him, compared to others…sorry, to me, if a man is guided by money and power, then he is not doing it for the people. The world needs more people like Dr Sun

As for his Obama comments,I think Hougang constituency should be singing this Teochew tunes to him…

‘Tee kor liang, Tee Kor chor.” (teochew)

sit everywhere it is windy .

He should have retired 5 years ago…at least my respect for him will still be intact.

I thought during the height of the last US Presidential nominations, LKY was in favour of Hillary and was quite opposed to Obama being elected as President -nominee and in fact make some unflattering remarks about him.

How come he can made a 180 degrees U-turn now ? A real chameleon ?

LKY can play many roles in Singapore. Basically he is a very wise politician who knows the head & tail of a coin before it is even tossed or flipped. Because he knows himself well enough so what’s left out is the rest which is just to get to know others or his surrounding & as well as the overall evironment regionally or internationally. He makes sure the basic requirements in Singapore are timely delivered no matter under what circumstances or situation would or may be. He is sharp enough to see those around him. That’s why he so anxious to meet Obama to have a feel about him when he is still capable of. He had already well lined up a few old & senior guards to take over in case he is gone! I have no doubt about it! He is a very intelligent stateman rare to comeby in Asia if not in the world because of his vast international exposure with knowledge & wisdom.

“And we’re now the best educated people in the whole of east Asia.”

If a teacher teaches a class of 100 students, is it a tougher job than a teacher teaching a class of 1 student?

Does the tiny population, compared to China’s, help?

Likewise, does singapore have more millionaires (USD) than China , a developing economy?

Does singapore have more geniuses than China, a 3rd world country?

Does China have more ivy league graduates than singapore?

From the 4 minute mark onwards, you can hear the interviewer saying something like “you were in control of everything”

and our beloved leader said “no…”

and then caucasian said “yes you were, you know that”

and our beloved leader laughed.

I wonder which MSM person or any other person dares to say the same and get the same kind of friendly laugh.

Well done singapore.

oops, forgotten the video link i referring to : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYvtv89Kews

i just very kapoh wanna ask did he get paid to go on the tv program?

Just abolished NS and form Singapore Foreign Legion lah. OK what?

My God, PLA in our SAF?
That’s mean we have communist moles in our beloved armed forces, ready to take over Sg by violence and turn world class Sg into another North Korea?

# 450 DavidLeong on October 25th, 2009 10.53 am

“LKY can play many roles in Singapore. Basically he is a very wise politician who knows the head & tail of a coin before it is even tossed or flipped”

You are so right about his skills at the game of coin throwing…

Heads I Win. Tails You Loose

Is LKY a dictator or authoritarian leader? If so, has he committed atrocities agst Singapore citizens by mass killings? To be fair to LKY, he is a great leader with a heart of passion for Singapore and a heart of compassion for Singaporeans. Even if he is a dictator or authoritarian leader, he is a good one. Unlike many dictators in history, such as Hitler, Stalin, Saddam Hussein, and Suharto, LKY has not killed any of his opposition. Only some were imprisoned under ISA for some years but were also released after a few years during the 1960s and 1970s. After that, at worst, he only sued them bankrupt. Many of these opposition leaders may actually not be bankrupt. They may have transfer their wealth to their family members. Hence, even how unhappy I am with the PAP for bringing in the large number of foreigners, I still respect LKY and the PAP old guards for all their years of contribution to Singapore and giving me an education and a job, and a peaceful and stable country to live in. Even if we want to oppose the PAP, we must be objective and be agst their policies, not personal attacks. They are still good leaders as compared to many political leaders in many countries.

50) next door ah beng on October 25th, 2009 7.54 pm

Just abolished NS and form Singapore Foreign Legion lah. OK what?
=======================================================

We have China nationals in our sports team. We have China nationals driving out buses and taxes. We have China nationals in our food court and restaurants.

Why not oursource out defence to PLA? Afterall, we are now know by outsiders as Chinapore.

The day is fast approaching when China nationals here will vote their countrymen into parliament and take over the government. The will suck up all our reserves and go back to China, leaving us with nothing.

Have the MIW dismissed this possibility?

51,

I can remember when there was a time when having links to the PRC was seen as highly suspicious.. haha.

54) New Era on October 25th, 2009 9.07 pm

“….Why not oursource out defence to PLA? Afterall, we are now know by outsiders as Chinapore…..”

With the high rate of converting new PRC to citizens, is there any surprise that the number of PRC citizens in NS could easily form a battalion? This is as good as having PLA in our army, right?

So if there is a freak GE result, it is obvious which battalion LKY will send to crush the people, right?

49) Juice Delayed is Juice Denied on October 25th, 2009 5.39 pm,

being the rich man he is, i doubt that incentive would prove useful… however, since we’re all so accommodated to the fact that our government jumps at every opportunity to squeeze even the last penny from its charge, we won’t fault you for thinking so.

53) Prophet Kongming on October 25th, 2009 9.07 pm

Your view, fortunately, is only shared amongst the elite.

The majority of Singaporeans are staunchly against the MIW and will vote them out in the next elections.

53) Prophet Kongming on October 25th, 2009 9.07 pm

The Chinese army storms a mass demonstration in Tiananmen Square, killing several hundred people in 1989, a well known Tiananmen Square Massacre which received worldwide condemn. On the other hand, quoted from LKY endorsing the Tiananmen massacre, Straits Times, 17 August 2004 – “If I have to shoot 200,000 students to save China from another 100 years of disorder, so be it.”

Tell this LKY’s quote to China folks, you are going to have a hard time to convince them LKY has heart of compassion.

#54

Can’t agree with u more. If LKY needs FT very much, why don’t use it to full potential? We can have another infantry unit next to SIR and Guards – Singapore Chinese National Infantry Regiment (SCNIR).

“. . . . .We now have Ukrainians serving in the army…”

Sure. Say, are they by any chance, place in charge of a machine gun? What happens if like that whore Zhang Yuan Yuan, we give them something, and then they just turn on us, flashing their ICs in our faces?

Maybe after next 2 elections, someone & gang can go to Ukraine for retirement?

Why are the MIW delaying having an elections? Waiting until the last minute to hold one could backfire on them.

Singaporeans are ready for Change now!

53) Prophet Kongming on October 25th, 2009 9.07 pm

Kongming, we have heard it all before from the other stooges.

Kishore Mahbubani: “There are no homeless, destitute or starving people [in Singapore] …Poverty has been eradicated.”

But Singaporeans know the reality. Here’s the link.

http://www.singaporedemocrat.org/povertyII.html

foreigners pay more taxes and levy than singaporeans and siingaporeans should be thankful to foreigners? oh really??

singaporeans:

1) pay high income tax

2) pay high property tax

3)pay high gst

4)pay high town counsil

5)pay high SP bills

6)pay high transportation fare

7)pay high medical fee

singaporeans are force to accept lower paid jobs

so this is what basically singaporeans are paying for the rest of their life and with low income how do you expect singaporeans to have even a small amount of savings for the future to retire old age?

or is there a retire for us singaporeans? we don’t see that yet.
the pap and the goverment have made a way that singaporeans are to earn within the limit as not to allow us to have savings and our saving is in the hand of the goverment and it is up to them if they wish to give it to us or to pocket in the own banks.

with low income and no savings..singaporeans are merely a slave working harder and harder each day to survive and what we earn are basically not ours, we only see the digits of our pay but do we really own it? NO!!

this is to contain singaporeans in this country as not to allowed any of us lower income earn to flee the country. the goverment knows well what it would be is one singaporeans were to give enough money and savings.., resulting them not wanting to live in singapore and flee away. why is this so? ask the goverment!!

so this is why poor singaporeans have no choice but to accept the indirectly of human slavery and torture and to let us live in pain despite knowing that we are suffering they simply doesn’t care as all this long in their mind is….WHICH SINGAPOREANS DARE TO VOICE UP?? the answer is NONE!!

vote after vote singaporeans blindly give in and hoping the goverment will pity and the old folks and the child to help them come up in live and feel the life they dreaming to live in. but the goverment simply do not have this time for us singaporeans

all their concern is:
you work you pay us
you sick you pay us
you want a house a place of shelter you pay us
you want help? sorry goverment has no money for us singaporeans

this is what will happen if singaporeans keep voting for them and they think we fear them
singaporeans think opposition will make our life more worst.
so are our life now any good? NO!!

as lky says..look at singapore now..yes singapore is beautiful!! with casino,F1 track, hotels,lots and lots of tourist attractions,lots and lots of entertainment for tourist

and what is singaporeans citizen getting out of all this? nothing. we have to keep sweating out daily to support and give the goverment the money they need to make more of this to attract tourist, foreigner working here and to give them support and welcome them with an open heart and help them even to land here with a high paying jobs and living in luxuries properties.

we singaporeans are carrying their loads.

ukrain in the ns?well…why not put the whole china national ,indian ,vietnamese ,japanese, korean and more.. into our army? must as well call in osama bin laden to join our army too as things would be easy for singapore to be destroy in any country finger tips. is this what we call defending our country?
STUPID LEE KUAN YEW!! you are exposing our country to disaster and open our country and selling piace by piece to foreign landing here. is this the promise you made for us singaporeans to vote you for the past 50years??!!

WE WILL VOTE YOU OUT THIS TIME AND WOULD NOT CONSIDER OVER YOUR GOODIES BAGS!!

another demonstration of LKY’s talk cock skills.

To all who disagree with me on my comments in #53:

In my previous comments in other blogs, I had expressed my unhappiness with PAP and the high defence spending as a result of the high pay PAP is giving to the SAF regulars in the hope to keep themselves in power in the event of a freak election. The Public Order Act provides the PAP tremendous power to maintain public order. However, this is on the assumption that PAP abuse such powers. Can we guarantee that the opposition parties will not do the same thing if they come into power? Are the opposition leaders lesser “sinners” than the PAP?

I agree with the need for a strong opposition to check the power of the PAP. I still hold to this view. However, for the good of Singapore, we still need a credible and clean opposition party i.e. opposition with integrity and really want to serve the nation for the benefits of the people. Otherwise, if Singaporeans vote in a “Hitler”, who was also once a opposition leader under the Weimar Republic, Singapore will be in trouble.

No doubt ordinary Singaporeans had suffered from the influx of foreigners who do not serve NS, the serving of NS by Singaporeans and the high cost of living in Singapore as a result of high defence spending . Under the government budget, defence spending is the highest among the ministries.

No doubt the capability of the SAF has improved and our defence forces have the best technology compared to our neighbour and Singapore need a credible defence force for national security. I certainly do not want to see Kostrad and Koppassus forces from Indonesia or SSG or Paskal forces from Malaysia roaming around our HDB flats. If TNI can commit atrocities in East Timor, and even in their own country, what makes Singaporeans think that they will not do the same to Singaporeans if Singapore do not have a strong SAF to protect the country? The question lies in how our money for defence spending goes into: How much have the $11billion defence budget gone into improving the capability of SAF? How much have gone into the pocket of the SAF regulars?

If we are having more and more foreign nationals in our armies, then there are some implications which we should consider:

1. If we can accept more and more foreigners into the army, why then are our own Singaporean Malays being mistrusted in the armed forces, as propounded by LHL some time ago? By promoting one Singaporean Malay to Brigadier does not so easily veil the eyes of many to see that there is still a huge gap of acceptance for true blue local Singaporean Malays particularly in the SAF, and generally in Singapore. Why is there no Singaporean Malay given the post of Minister of Defence or PS Defence?.

2. Will this be used as a excuse by a neighbouring country to invade Singapore in the future? What were the agreements between Malaysia and Singapore before separation? What were the agreements between Indonesia and Singapore before Singapore became independent?

3. Is the PAP trying to establish a division of foreigners in the SAF so that it can be used to launch a coup in the event that it is being toppled? (As it is probable that local Singaporean NSmen will not follow such orders to shoot their own fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, children and relatives if PAP were to use them to launch a coup to regain power).

4. Have we thrown all cautions into the air with regards to national security? Will there be a possibility that these foreigners could be infiltrators of some outside organizations? They infiltrate into our armed forces, the police, grass-root organizations, etc. so as to become sleepers to be used in the event of a conflict or crisis, yes or no?

Remember the ‘Two-Is-Enough’ family planning policy? Short-term gains but long-term losses. That is the consequence of lack of foresight but camouflaged and glamorized by the word called “Pragmatism”.

A man of vision? My foot!

This interview ill never take place in singapore cos it will be vetted. I wonder whether he has contacted his lawyers for a possible defamation suit against thie interview. Cos thats his style.

Finally the truth has been revealed about the man himself. If he goes to london and gives an interview more will be revealed again. Guess he will be warned not to give any more such inteviews in future.

We all like to praise him and thank him for all he has doen for the country but we must not forget the people singaporeans that he had prosecuted simply cos they were standing up for the people. From his sppech , his tone and his replies one can sense and detect that he is a revengeful person and he will get his dues one day and thats why unlike most of us who do not , he fears death cos there no one will be able to protect him and he will have to face the ones he prosecuted when they were alive and answer to them.

Finally justice will be served albeit a bit late.

[i]Finally justice will be served albeit a bit late. [/i]

when you received your $0.10cents from st peters @ st peter’s gate
the road to hell will be a LONG and hot 1
remembered what kuanyew says?
“aircondition is the best gift on earth”

guess his aircon unit in hell don’t worked @ all
noped not what you all are thinkin
in hell there is no 13amp plug……………
i know
i am the hell’s mantainance guy…………..

67) Prophet Kongming
However, this is on the assumption that PAP abuse such powers. Can we guarantee that the opposition parties will not do the same thing if they come into power? Are the opposition leaders lesser “sinners” than the PAP?

Good pointer here, then again how sure you are that the opposition leaders are lesser sinners than the PAP before they can assume power to do their work? At this point of time, most people already knew all or most of those failed policies by the present ruling party and things are not getting any better, infact the worsening is taking place now except that the MSM are still very effecient in covering up and smoke screening the public with so many twisted news.

[i]CHARLIE ROSE: That brings me to President Obama. What are your observations about him?

LEE KUAN YEW: He’s a very great and eloquent man who is very persuasive and is very able and has appointed very able people into his key positions. And what impressed me most is his appointing people of different minds.

For instance, on his economic team, there is Summers Paul Volcker, and they’re both very strong minded people.[/i]

opps.. i missed this 1.,. so leekuanyew what are YOU goin to do about it regardin your last sentence….you know the word ^ECONOMIC^ team? how much is summers paul volcker gettin? how much is YOUR dog minister limsiasuayed gettin..well besides all the ZEROs in his cpf account..also please whateverhappenned..your precious lovin daughterinlaw MR hoching is she an ^economic^ CEO?…………

#71) tiredsingaporean,

I’m not saying we should not vote for opposition. We still need to vote for the opposition so as to have a checks and balance to the PAP. While we need a strong opposition, we also need to ensure that we have a clean and credible opposition.

The PAP has definitely gone too far in bringing the foreigners and increasing the defence spending to feed their army regulars at the expense of ordinary citizens. However, if we do not have a clean opposition that serve Singaporeans with sincerity, Singapore will be in trouble if defence spending is cut to the extent that it compromise national security.

It is not a small matter to compromise defence of Singapore if the opposition parties cut defence spending, as I’m sure you do not want to be see your family being killed by Indonesian or Malaysian soldiers, if the extremist elements gain power in Indonesia or Malaysia one day.

However, on the other hand, Singapore’s defence spending cannot expand to such an extent that ordinary Singaporeans suffered from the high cost of living. Based on FY 2008 budget, MINDEF contributes only $39 mil to government revenue but defence spending is $10.8 bil. In fact, MOE contributes more than MINDEF, with $42.8 mil. This is surprising since MINDEF also owns the defence industries and should thus, contribute more to government revenue. GST contributed $6.2 bil and personal income tax contributed $5.9 bil. Hence, the government revenue from our GST and income tax has all gone towards defence spending. That’s why I agree with RP as it provides good alternative policies by proposing free education up to secondary level and cutting defence spending.

I’m not sure how much of our GST and personal income tax has really gone into improving the military capability for the defence of Singapore, or has they gone into the pockets of the SAF regulars? When MINDEF propose the SAVER scheme to the SAF regulars in 1998, it promised the SAF regulars a huge sum for their retirement upon their retirement at age of 42. However, a few mths ago it raised the retirement age of SAF regulars to 50 years old. This means that more of our GST and personal income tax will go into the pockets of the SAF regulars. Not sure whether the PAP is going to increase the GST and income tax to pay the SAF regulars again. Hence, we need a strong opposition party like RP which can provide us alternative policies.

There are 2 standard responses by MM whenever he is posed with difficult questions, opposing views of the way he runs Singapore :

(a) Talk about history, how difficult it was during the early days, how the young today do not know of the problems in the past history, etc, etc…

(b) Respond by saying that it is for Singaporeans to decide. They can vote PAP out if they do not disagree with his policies. The fact that PAP has won the last few elections means that they are doing right.

Forget about debating policies, forget about critcisims that are justified, forget about talking about issues that are against human rights, forget about expecting a response from him on issues involved.

It is always the same kind of response. The only way to wake him up is through the election process. So singaporeans, indeed, need to vote wisely.

Politics is about connections. Why is MM saying positive things about Obama ? The simple answer to this is that Obama is now in power. MM has to suck up to him for connections. Forget about what he said about Hilary being the preferred choice. He now wants to suck up to the one in power.

“While we need a strong opposition, we also need to ensure that we have a clean and credible opposition.”

How to know if it is not tested – we not talking about road sweepers, private 4-D runners, newspaper boys who field themselves as candidates.

Where is the platform which can give better visibility for the opposition (e.g permit for cycling, one-man assembly, media monopoly ??) to show that they are credible.

Many credible & talented people who may want to join opposition (to change something that they feel is wrong) will already be discouraged.

Prophet kongming #53.

It’s about time you change your crystal ball because the prophecies you are getting is about 20 years too late.

LKY and the PAP govt. have overstayed their welcome.

After almost 50 years in power LKY says Spore is not yet a nation. The press, TV, Radio (MSM) are all controlled by the PAP government.. They refuse to let you think and read independently.

The policies of the PAP government are making thousands leave Singapore.

To artificially boost up the population by 2 million within such a short space of time shows the PAP is bankrupt of ideas and their policies have failed. Obviously no government serious about becoming a nation implements such a policy.

The only ones enjoying their policies are property tycoons, bankers, foreign tax evaders

At this rate we are going…I definitely will vote for any opposition dog or cat..should there be any contest in my constituency in the coming GE. I think after almost 50 years, we should be able to have an alternative voice..a voice that will speak up and not the one that the Papas are advocating…it is impossible for them to bite the hands that feed them and hence quality of politics will inadvertently go down the drain..

Highest emigration rate as a percentage of natural -born basis–in the world
40 odd years and still ‘aspiring’ to be a nation.
Citizens migrating in droves because of NS policy.
Having one third of residents as PR–being too scared to do NS
Going to be casino hub of region
This is certainly different from the country that Goh K. S. and Winseimus build

LKY said that “OVER MY DEAD BODY WILL SINGAPORE I ALLOW SINGAPORE TO HAVE CASINOS” while his son allowed 2 casinos setup in Sg. Another clear indication that our ruling party is running out of ideas.

#JW

I agree that the PAP has gone too much in letting so many foreigners into Singapore. Though I want to support the opposition, and hope the opposition leaders can win more seats in next election, I want to be sure that the opposition leaders are responsible people who are sincere to fight for the welfare of ordinary citizens. with alternative policies such as those proposed by RP, like free education up to secondary level, reduce taxes and defence spending, restricting foreigners.

If we have irresponsible people in power, then Singapore will be in trouble. Ulitmately, it is all about balance. We need the opposition party to provide a checks and balance to PAP. If PAP lose an election, we also need the PAP to check the new ruling party. That’s the way how democracy works.

78) Homeless in my own country on October 26th, 2009 4.15 pm

“………I think after almost 50 years, we should be able to have an alternative voice..a voice that will speak up and not the one that the Papas are advocating…it is impossible for them to bite the hands that feed them and hence quality of politics will inadvertently go down the drain.. ……..”

alternative voices can only come from the opposition parties. Those who believe that PAP MPs can provide check and accountability from the PAP government have to stop kidding themselves. Do you think it is possible for a dog to make other sound than barking? If you want sound other than barking, then it has to come from other animals.

i am amazed by singapore’s u -turns:

1. stop-at-2 to as many as you humanly and financially and practically can.
2. no casinos to not just one but having 2.

the sign of the times.

53) Prophet Kongming on October 25th, 2009 9.07 pm

In a relay, you will always be recognized & rewarded for running your own best leg. Once you have outrun your own leg and tired yourself by running into your partners’ 2nd or 3rd legs, etc – you may even jeopardize the whole teams’ performance and undo what you have set out to achieve in the first place.

I will like to quote below a part of a speech from Theorore rooselvelt (An American president) which i think is quite relevant to our judgement of LKY. Also as a light-hearted response to many singaporean in this forum that do not particularly like LKY.

“It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes short again and again, who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause, who at best knows achievement and who at the worst if he fails at least fails while daring greatly so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.”

I think that LKY is a great man. He had the strong conviction and the believe to do what is right for Singapore and never look back. He is a man of great courage.

Having going through rough times like he had, certainly does something to his soul and character. We cannot expect him to be without ego which i suspect many Singapore dont like him for. At the end of the day, he is still a human being like all of us and we should judge him as a human being, not as a perfect person. We should ask ourselves whether all our criticism of him is realistic. Put yourself in his shoes.

“Serving” is very different from “fighting and dying”. Will MM Lee care to tell us how many Ukrainians are willing to fight and die for Singapore?

#68

Malays in SAF vs 2nd gen FT in SAF? Just look at the simple thing like chances of any interested Malays who want to serve in RSN. If SAF can’t let the Malays join the Navy, don’t hope for anything better for local-born Sg Malays like me who (thank god) end up spending my reservist time fighting fires instead of protecting the sea above MCVs or frigates. But it is better than watching in our No.4, the navy guys happily parading beside the big grey hull. (as my cousin from the Army told me).

> PAP say: WP (Workers Party) stands for “Wayang Party”.

S’poreans say: PAP is very clever in staging Political Wayang Shows to hoodwink the People.

> In America, Red Indians say: White Men speak with forked tongues (ie say one thing, but do another).

In Singapore, its People say: Men In White also speak with forked tongues (ie cannot be TRUSTED to PRACTISE WHAT THEY PREACH about honesty, integrity, responsibility, transparency, accountability, blah, blah, blah….. in Good Political Governance.

#84 Guoxin

Agree with you. That’s what I meant in my comments in #53. LKY and PAP are still much lesser sinner as compared to other political leaders in other countries. Although we may disagree with their policies and want a strong opposition party to provide a checks & balance, we still need a clean opposition party. Otherwise, we may end up committing greater sins than our forefathers when we vote and support a political party that end up committing atrocities agst its people and do injustice to our children.

Is PM Lee more willing to lead 30, 40, 50 yo Ukranians than 30, 40, 50yo Singkies? Hypohypohypocrite.

lee kuan yew are selling singapore to foreign country. ukranians will rules singapore army and singaporeans will soon be under them. under ukranians soldier and china soldier. so we end up living the same during the japanese time. comnunistism

#84) Guoxin

It will be more convincing if you could help to list out what LKY had done recently to help the below average Singaporean (not the elite and rich lor!) to make you think that he is a great man. Please do not bring back what he did long long ago because you can’t simple keep asking for credit on those history.

Do you think that his recent remark on the golden period, the casino, no beggar in sg, defending on minister pay rise, his wife hospitalize encounter in London, GIC investment on US Bank for long term etc etc, doesn’t make him is a great man?

Honestly, I have never put myself in his shoe but I do play throwing shoe at Bush..hehe

http://www.sockandawe.com/

for the last 50 years the PAP refused to give fair entry to Malays and Muslims in Singapore to participate in the army. now they are giving Ukranians a chance which they denied Malays and Muslims for 50 years. do PAP and the chinese majority in Singapore really think that that makes Singapore a safer place?

should there be a war tomorrow maybe not even with indonesia or malaysia, what reservations will Malays and Muslims in fighting SAF, the army that ostracised them? many Malay and Muslim friends that i talked to already harbour a deep sense of hatred for SAF. they are not wrong in that. Singaporean Chinese have to learn to share opportunities in their country or else they will end up like Sri Lanka

“It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbled, or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes short again and again, who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause, who at best knows achievement and who at the worst if he fails at least fails while daring greatly so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.”

Sounds like he was referring to CSJ or JBJ.

“He had the strong conviction and the believe to do what is right for Singapore and never look back. He is a man of great courage.”

So are a lot of other men who may not have the luck to be in the limelight.

“At the end of the day, he is still a human being like all of us and we should judge him as a human being, not as a perfect person. We should ask ourselves whether all our criticism of him is realistic.”

When you subject others to such high standard, then you should not spare yourself from the eyeballs of others regarding your own performance & standard. Anyway, it is very human for such expectation to result naturally – people (or should I say human beings) just do not like double-standards, more so if it affects them negatively.

this fart is really going too far and too arrogant.

he is showing the world that he is on par with the rest of world most tyrant leaders.

80) FaceTheFact on October 26th, 2009 4.27 pm

LKY said that “OVER MY DEAD BODY WILL SINGAPORE I ALLOW SINGAPORE TO HAVE CASINOS” while his son allowed 2 casinos setup in Sg. Another clear indication that our ruling party is running out of ideas.
================================================================

They are undoubtedly out of ideas on how to grow our economy. The are completely clueless. Other than the casinos, they have resorted to flooding this country with cheap foreign labour, to compete with our neighbours. It is time to give others a chance to run this country.

I am voting for the opposition as the majority of Singaporeans will do.

5) whole singaporeans on October 27th, 2009 11.49 am

4) Hon Sen Tong on October 26th, 2009 11.46 pm

I beg to differ to #3 !
‘Greedy’ is such a strong word.

So, we should continue to Trust them that such highest in the world salaries are appropriate.

We should work harder and not complain too much.

so what you are saying is let them earn millions and billions of dollars and we as a singaporeans lower income and high cost and living and keep rising should work even harder trying to reach the goverment and ministers pocket needs?

the question is why they need millions of dollars into their salaries?? just because they are taking care of singapore or singaporeans?
the question is for 10years cleaner salaries has been the same and only increase of just $50 maybe and while ministers goes for increament that sky high??

the question is why poor citizen and lower income was not given the help they need as a citizen as we encounter old folk going to the PAP asking for assistance and keep going and waiting for months before they can even get a $70voucher for ntuc?? thye have bills that they can afford to pay and what they get after begging and begging the MP is a $70 voucher of NTUC?? my GOODNESS!!

just imagine millions in pay and for the last 50years?? still got no money to assist singaporeans?no bull sht

still we are to ask to donate to charity and to work even harder to help ourself and others??
ONCE SAID BY LEE KUAN YEW AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN
if you don’t help yourself then there’s no one would be able to help you include the goverment and mp and all this pap. that is what it means straight forward straight talk!

so if we were to depend on ourself and to help ourself then how is it possible when the goverment is depending too much on our money on invesments and stock share and so on? how can we help ourself when the goverment need us to pay them huge amount of taxes, gst,bills, huge housing payment and 30year of payment and still have an outstanding due to lower income no able to coupe??!!

they have earn enough for all this and yet they can hard assist their own singaporeans and yet they can throw our money into their games and needs?

do ministers and lky need a million and billions dollar home??

oh yeah it is said by lee kuan yew that he have set his own business in europe and a few more countries! so that’s where our singaporeans money goes into their retirement of countless generation of their familee….?!! so does the ministers?? what are that they have been doing for us?? oh yeah a good bags hand out each $200 to $500 and preparing to take that money back from us plus interest in the upcoming increase in gst and taxes and so on?? WOW this is legal loan shark that will nail you up for lifetime!!

as JBJ who was with lee kuan yew from the early days has ask singaporeans to ask them why they need to be paid so much as in millions and billions collected??!!

lee kuan yew was saying that it is difficult in the past as he is saying for himself that how difficult to make money in the past and now he easily makes millions and billions from us isngaporeans and thanks for singaporeans but no thanks for helping singaporeans and giving them better future.

only use this stupid singaporeans coz singaporeans are fear of lky and singaporeans follow order or lky will get the army to put each of us in jail

you still want to play and don’t want to pay?? you go in prison.

as a born singaporean, i will face the army if he ever call for an action.

99) mike on October 27th, 2009 2.05 pm

no worries mate! you would not be alone.

whoever said authoritarian governors must be tyrants needs to get his/her head checked, and the facts right. if the progress of europe over the last 5 centuries came at the price of tyrannical authoritarianism and tremendous sufferings for the common men and women, then i don’t want to live under a non-authoritarian regime. i mean, work it out mates, progress over liberties? whoever with half a brain would favour the former!

come on guys, there’s always going to be two sides to every thing. what’s not to like about our present situation? who’s to say the system won’t continue working into the far future, with minor tweaks to stay relevant and competitive?

vote out pap

“if the progress of europe over the last 5 centuries came at the price of tyrannical authoritarianism and tremendous sufferings for the common men and women,”

Post hoc ergo propter hoc, mate.

Progress resulted there as their people threw out tyrannical authoritarianism and not because the latter has a positive claim to the subsequent progress as you seem to suggest.

“i mean, work it out mates, progress over liberties?”

progress and liberties, mate.

“who’s to say the system won’t continue working into the far future,”

it sure will work but for whom, mate.

“with minor tweaks to stay relevant and competitive?”

tell us who you are suggesting should do the tweaking, mate (or half-bra??)

I think there probably is ONE and only ONE Ukrainian serving.
MIW [with black heart] are trying very hard in cahoots with MSM to protray that PRs and newbies are not taking us for a ride.
I know of many PR that have been here for 30 or more years.
There are about 600,000 and counting–as a percentage of population this must be the highest in the world. WHY?
There should be a 10 years expiry date on PR status—convert or go home.

Finance Minister Tharman Shanmugaratnam said “People do want to know, there is curiosity, it is a matter of public interest. That is not sufficient reason to disclose information. It is not sufficient that there be curiosity and interest that you want to disclose information.”

They are supposed to be accountable to the people. Instead we get answers like this in parliament. There is no transparency.

Putting members of the opposition in parliament will give us the answer we want.

Let’s be honest foreigner don’t want to become citizens. The Shitty Times presents Singapore as a utopia to the outside world but foreigners are fully aware of the situation here.

Would a foreigner want to live in a place where you have to pay over $300,000 to buy a flat of only 90 sq m?. Would they want to trade their freedom to live in one of the most repressive country after North Korea?

Most of the foreigners are here to make a quick dollar and leave.

New Era —fully agree with you.
Only Sink-a-poreans are SUNK in this place
Have you notice how the no. 155 MSM try to publcise about Coco LEE. Gong LEE, Jet LEE getting their PRs etc.
I think if they can, they will offer Bruce LEE post-humous PR status.
Is there a commonality here or is there a TAX angle.
Fact remains —the EXODUS of NS-served true-blue will never stop..
Who wants to defend a five star hotel for the rich and famous where the jobs being created are Croupiers and chambermaids

#73 Prophet Kongming

You are right to a certain extent. If the defence spending can be cut by reducing the pay of SAF regulars, the GST and income tax can also be cut as well. These SAF regulars do not deserve to be pay more than the civilian sector. If the defence spending, GST and income tax can be cut by reducing the pay of the SAF regulars, only 30,000 SAF regulars will suffer, but 3 million Singaporeans can benefit from the lower GST and income tax, especially the lower income group.

Good loh. When you insert lots of foreigners into the army and the population, why would other countries attack us?

We belong to China, India, Malaysia already and….now Ukraine is going to have a share. Only one country in the world allows itself to be invaded so easily….OURS.

This is insanity.

Can you trust the foreigners in the same platoon as you is going to guard your back? or stab your back? I chill to think I may need to fight beside them.

Regarding a comment about having a “checker” to our government somewhere in this forum

Actually, i am more worried at the prospect of having a 2 party or multi-party system to “check” on each other. When that happens, government will not be able to think and focus on our future. Singapore is so small, we cant emboil ourselves in politics like Taiwan or US. Taiwan is a good example of what may happen to Singapore if a 2 party system.

To the LKY haters again..

If the LKY/government is a corrupted bunch, or not up to the job, then it is partly your fault for not starting a revolution against them even if there is a risk of being bankurpted or killed in the process..since your life is so hard and death is better than life under the PAP right? I urge you to do something about it.

Ironically, if we do not have LKY and a 1 party Singapore, i dare not think what will happen to our Singapore. Luck or misfortune to have LKY? Many people will argue and there will be endless views. But we have to be realistic….what are the odds for another person to be our leader and do what LKY had done from 1959? What are the odds? Ask yourself honestly.

OK. So assuming we agree on a 1 party 1 leader approach. We want to best man on the job right? This godly person must have the courage to come out and doing something about the situation right? Why is he not standing out to organise something?

My reason is that the smartest people of the highest integrity with leadership even better LKY somewhere out there in Singapore feels that life is too good and it is not necessary to oppose and to intervene. If life is really that hard in Singapore, these people MUST stand out… They have to because i want my leaders to be self-respecting people, who know they must fight back if hurt or else they are not worth it anyway. There is absolutely no excuse. And since this person is better than LKY, he should be able to convince the people that LKY is a dictator anyway.

Therefore i conclude that if life that hard that the government is doing something really wrong, then there must be a revolution; the people is partly responsible. Not just whining about the government. No excuse. Period.

LKY haters are a disillusioned bunch that do not understand the realities of life. No government is perfect in their judgement on everything. At least in my opinion, the goverment is not complacent and are conituning to improve Singapore.

Hi GuoXin,

Don’t worry on 2 party or multi-party system to “check” on each other lah. When I’m a kid, my dad/mom always “check” on me. Now is my wife to “check” on me. Finance auditor/internal auditor/ISO auditor also “check” on my work every year. Well, I’m clean so I have no worried to be “check”. Honestly, I am worried if they don’t “check” on me…haha! Despite all these “check”, my life still goes on and focusing.

However, when you said “When that happens, government will not be able to think and focus on our future”, do you mean our government have a lot of thing to hide and cannot be “check” for the past 50 yrs under LKY and 1 party? You sound like you know something….can share?

The SAF should bring in more foreign talents, since they are cheaper. Hence, Singaporeans don’t have to pay so much GST and income tax to support the SAF regulars. Singaporeans too expensive to be employed as SAF regulars. Hmm… maybe we should also have foreign talents as our ministers… since they are cheaper

he is right in one thing. we are better off, more educated than our parents. looking at other se countries, cannot deny that fact.

110) Guoxin

As much as Taiwan’s economy is bad. They have something very important we do not. The possess love for their country.

We are diluted to such extent that we have zero national identity. We are empty.

In the recent typhoon disaster, I was amazed at how the national bounded together in their time of adversity. Their unity is so great that even China would need to think thrice before attacking them.

Us? A third of our population would run away at the first sign of trouble.

Can we honestly claim we have a good economy? Foreigners are responsible for almost half of our national GDP. Foriegners makes money, gov gets taxes but do we really benefit? Some locals perhaps….get a trickle of the wealth.

It is like how the gov does it for sports. Import foreign talent to win medals for soccer, olympics, etc, and claim Singapore won. I cower in shame of my country’s shamelessness.

Pls do not insult Taiwan by comparing SG with them.

//then it is partly your fault for not starting a revolution against them even if there is a risk of being bankurpted or killed in the process..since your life is so hard and death is better than life under……………………………………//

Now this is very very difficult to do given the many many years of conditioning. Life is not so extremely hard for most to the extent that they literally have no option but to rob or steal in order to survive and that goes the real nub of the problem.

1) Condition to fear.
2) Enough to survive
3) Divide and rule (e.g one-man assembly) – no chance for like-minded people to congregate.
3) Exercise the stick on those who misbehave (kill the chicken to scare off the other monkeys who dare to try) through “law” & enforcement which the uniformed guys will be naively enthusiastic to show that they are good guys.

And what do we get here, ……….

Please remember the chiding on our complacency……… and you will know why something is not right about the whole affair of things, if you have still not waken up.

“My reason is that the smartest people of the highest integrity with leadership even better LKY somewhere out there in Singapore feels that life is too good and it is not necessary to oppose and to intervene. If life is really that hard in Singapore, these people MUST stand out…”

let me guess (taking a risk), you must be a young chap to have said this.

From the many 116 comments so far, it looks like many are looking forward to attending the funeral of LKY.

110) Guoxin on October 28th, 2009 12.10 am

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

Like the mediacorp advert says “hear only the good things.”

“Police guard staff after Tiger passengers left stranded”

Why was this screw-up not reported in our local media? Tiger Airways is getting a bad reputation for leaving passengers stranded. People here have a right to know how shabbily it treats its passengers.

http://www.theage.com.au/travel/travel-news/police-guard-staff-after-tiger-passengers-left-stranded-20091026-hg17.html

Hi facetheFact,

What i mean is that if there is a 2 party system, the government will spend alot of thier energies on domestic politics rather than focusing about the future. Just take for example from Taiwan’s news and media, i see that the taiwanese people and govenment emboil in domestic politics and personal attacks on each other in thier parliments. Their news are extensively on domestic issues, hence i do not believe that many taiwan people or even thier politicians understands the long term issues for their country with regard to this world. I say these and i speak for myself and these are my views only.

In Singapore we have political stability. We can spend our energies and effort into thinking of our future, repositioning ourselves in this world, changing our policies, improving everytime. This is why i said “When that happens, government will not be able to think and focus on our future”. No other hidden meaning.

I am objective and i refuse to bring up separate issues to judge the government or to discredit LKY. I look at the government as a whole, the bigger picture. Whether the government have the best intention for Singapore or not, everybody have different views based on his/her life and experience in Singapore and i respect that. But i may not agree also.

Hi Bitter Singaporean,

I agree that we do not have a strong identity. I am not trying to insult Taiwan. But i look at it objectively and i feel that they are going in the wrong direction. Economy is the root of all thier problems. For the individual, if you dont have a work and cannot support your family, how does freedom of speech help you in life? Freedom to me is your ability to make choices of as many things as possible in life.

I agree with you that Singapore do not have a strong national identity. But Singapore’s government is always trying. Nation-building is a step by step process. We cannot expect ourselves to get there at the highest level over 50 years. Look at America’s history, the civil war, the slaveries, the black racism. This is thier long history and it take few hundred years to have this sort of history. Hence we have to remind ourselves of what is our starting point and be realistic.

Singapore is still a young country. We start off as a immgrant land and still is an immigrants land atm. We may forever be a immigrant country becuase of our small size. This are the realities in Singapore. This is the sort of nation we are. We have to always depend on talent from outside to survive. It take many generations to form a sense of nation identity in our people and Singapore is still in transition. Will we ever get there? Nobody knows. I cannot say for every Singaporean, but at least for me, i have faith that we will get there someday if we keep trying. It is good that Singaporeans is unhappy about our general lack of a sense of national spirit. This shows that we care. The question is whether we take this as a positive energy to build on this spirit or identity, or as a negative energy to quit on Singapore.

Guoxin,

seriously, if all you could do is specifically select a particular country as a example to strengthen your argument, I afraid you still have a lot to learn. So in the world, the only example you can choose to show that 2 party system doesn’t work is Taiwan’s parliament’s rowdy behaviour ? Have you seen Australia’s parliament debate ?

Why not go to Youtube and watch how first world parliament conduct debate, of how incumbent and opposition party can co-exist and debate constructively ?

Political stability is nothing if everything is swept under the carpet and echelon living in state of self-denial. Sooner or later, those skeletons in the closet will be uncovered. Singapore’s political stability comes about when people becoming YES-man and not questioning sensitive and political issues , but then for how long ? There is no future if Singapore still run as monarchy manage by elite family who think that they know better, and continue to act likewise, preferring to entrench themselves in power and wealth as long as possible. Yes, bullshitting and rhetoric seem to be priority for the government nowadays.

“I am objective and i refuse to bring up separate issues to judge the government or to discredit LKY.”

How can you even say that you are been objective when you don’t even question the government and the policy, especially the so-claimed father of Singapore ?

If you do not even question critically, let’s not even talk about having view and open society.

How different are you from LKY who link accountability to surrounding buildings around you ?

Hi our fault again?,

Thank you for your feedback. I can feel your sentiments of many Singaporean about the sense of fear we have to oppose. But to a certain extent, i still feel it is a excuse. If you feel strongly about something and think that you have a better way to solve the problems of Singapore and to govern better, then you must “break the cycle”. It is not going to be easy. Almost nothing is easy in life.

This kind of “breaking the cycle” mindset i think LKY is feeling when he formed the party. Because he think that he can achieve a better life for Singaporeans than the British. And so he play by the rules in those times and win over the people. To me, it is quite ridiculous to say he do this for himself after what he done. Honestly, it is a big sacrifice. Can you imagine yourself spending your lifetime doing this? I am not convinced by what people say that he do it for money and power by the way i see him live his life even till today. I think that it is ridiculous to say that he do it for personal gain. To say it bluntly, i think that it is ungrateful.

LKY himself had showed that it can be done. If you feel strongly about something, you have to risk you life to break through the cycle and show to the people you are right and you are better.

Hi daniel,

Thanks for your insight. I see you point about me not being able to provide wide-ranging examples to support my argument for 1 party system. You are right, i am not a expert in what is best style of government. But what i feel is that there is no real best way of govenment in this world. What i should say is we need to have government that fits the our social fabric, and the sort of nation we are with regards to this world.

We are a small country of a small population of different race and religion with no natural resources surrounded in this uncertain and ever changing world. After 50 years, are you really sure Singaporean are ready to go ahead with the democratic processes? Yes for many of us that are educated, we can handle it and we can debate constructively for the better Singapore. But is it true for the majority in Singaporeans? Are we getting ahead of ourselves here?

I am not advocating the spirit of not opposing the govenment. I just hope that people are more contructive in their protests against policies. We as individuals looks at things that affect us directly. The goverment look at things that impact all the people.

Lastly, I do not always agree with what the LKY do. For one, i dont agree that LKY should sue his enemies to bankrupcy. In my opinion it is bad for the reputation of the government. I think that LKY should have a little faith in the people to know who is right and wrong. But we cannot blame LKY for having self-respect right? What will you do if you are in the situation?

123) Guoxin on October 29th, 2009 1.19 am

Why do you think the incident about Tiger Airways leaving passengers stranded again, this time in Hobart, was not reported in the local MSM?

Is there something to hide?

To 122) Guoxin on October 29th, 2009 12.20 am

Thank you for your feedback. I can feel your sentiments of many Singaporean about the sense of fear we have to oppose. But to a certain extent, i still feel it is a excuse. If you feel strongly about something and think that you have a better way to solve the problems of Singapore and to govern better, then you must “break the cycle”. It is not going to be easy. Almost nothing is easy in life.

>> In my opinion, when you start voting the opposition, you are already breaking the cycle.

To 120) Guoxin on October 28th, 2009 11.41 pm,

Lastly, I do not always agree with what the LKY do. For one, i dont agree that LKY should sue his enemies to bankrupcy. In my opinion it is bad for the reputation of the government. I think that LKY should have a little faith in the people to know who is right and wrong. But we cannot blame LKY for having self-respect right? What will you do if you are in the situation?

>> Self-respect? Bankruptcy? Maybe you should read up on Operation ColdStore. I point you to a different source, wikipedia; I guess it will be more neutral.

>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Coldstore

Extract from Wikipedia:
Were Barisan Sosialis and Lim Chin Siong communists?

However, with new archives opened up in London, evidence linking Lim Chin Siong and Barisan Sosialis to be communist seems vague at best. In other words, there was no direct evidence linking Lim Ching Siong and Barisan Sosialis to communist ideas.

Furthermore, according to Mathew Jones’ article, Operation Coldstore was more a barter deal as Tunku Abdul Rahman stated that he would not take in Singapore if the Borneo Territories were not given up by the British and if there was no detention of the radical leftists in Singapore.

Since SAF can have Ukrainians, the government should also recruit Malaysians and Indonesians into the army, to reduce the manpower cost of defence spending. If there is a war with Malaysia or Indonesia, then the Malaysian and Indonesian soldiers from SAF can fight their fellow Malaysians and Indonesians counterparts. Then Singaporeans don’t have to serve NS anymore! Kill 2 birds with 1 stone!

119) Guoxin

There are some people like you who can wait for the government to change and improve.

Then, there are those of us who can’t wait.

i)Pretty soon, I will be too old to buy a house, start a family and have kids. The housing prices are still going up up and away under the PAP administration. They consider it “affordable” and refuse to help.

ii)My job may not be safe as yours. Foreign grads are younger and cheaper can replace me. Experience of 3 years is good. More years of experience just means you are too old and …expensive. Yet, Lim Swee Say wants us to be even cheaper. I guess that means pay-cut or getting replaced by “foreign talent”

ii) Everything that makes us proud and makes us a country is disappearing:
a)Our reserves are being gambled away.
b)Our key national assets vital to our sovereignty (e.g. power stations) are sold away.
c)We have diminishing national identity.
d)Our SAF has foreigners. Soldier morale is low as PRs don’t have to serve and/or they have foreigners in their platoon.
e)Citizenship and PR are being handed out like worthless toilet paper.
f)Foreigners treat SG like a goldmine or a stepping stone with no respect.

I am happy for you that your life is secure enuf to wait. For me, it is a choice between survival/having a real country AND voting the PAP administration OUT.

To: 124) New Era

Agree that we must beware of those with hidden agendas.

The wise man questions all, including those who claim there is no need to question.

The wiser man questions those who claim to be questioners!

127) Bitter Singaporean on October 29th, 2009 12.10 pm 119) Guoxin

I am happy for you that your life is secure enuf to wait. For me, it is a choice between survival/having a real country AND voting the PAP administration OUT.

I agree, either we vote them OUT now or be prepared to face the consequence of booting ourselves out of this island or just waiting to die a natural death.

“But to a certain extent, i still feel it is a excuse. If you feel strongly about something and think that you have a better way to solve the problems of Singapore and to govern better, then you must “break the cycle”. It is not going to be easy. Almost nothing is easy in life.”

Excuse ? Are you joking ? Sounds like you are suggesting revolution. Or going the CSJ or JBJ way ? Anyway, it is easy for one brainless soldier holding a gun (big fat stick) to control 100 more intelligent principled unarmed civilians – if you still remember “send in the army should there be a freak election.” Now, did you mention excuse. Yes, you did.

Thank you for telling us that it is not going to be easy and almost nothing is easy in life, well i almost forget the ringing & yet gradual distant background noise of the big preaching that “we the citizens of ………. to build a DEMOCRATIC society…….”

The best thing is to abolish NS and there will be no shortage of labour and no need for FTs!

Hi #126) Dumb and dumber

IMO, Guoxin is suffering from xenophobia. Well, he is not alone and in fact, many Singaporean are suffering from xenophobia. Too much state media reporting on Taiwan parliament to intentionally create this xenophobia so as to tell people that we will like Taiwan parliament if more than 1 party in our parliament. Most of them fail to see that our current opp party sitting in Parliament, have behave and performing well.

Mr Clinton said: “His work as Prime Minister and now as Minister Mentor has helped literally millions of people from Singapore and all across Southeast Asia live better, more prosperous lives.”

Mr Bush said: “All of us who have worked with him have benefited from his wisdom, his insight and his dedication.”

more properous lives for who? for the ministers all over the whole?

all of them have work for him have benefits billions of dollars for singaporeans pocket of hard work into lky hand and given away to foreign countries.

his dedication is all about towards his own familee.

those foreign country not excited about his archivement but excited and happy of what LKY is going to offer them and each of them offer LKY to thier country,it is like you scratch my back i scratch your back. money make money. but for who? all this years.
LKY is advicing all over the country with his brainwash tactics..to give and gain. you believe that lky do something for free?? a big NO!

what do singaporeans benefit from our goverment archivement all this years? he received a award lately. so that means he had archive and still when ask about singaporeans future. he will say he doesn’t know and we still have to wait for good times and we strive together as a singaporean to archive the gold.

the gold that will soon drop into lky hand and distribute to foreigns for an exchange of wealth for the benefit of thier own and we singaporeans have to work harder for the next gold.
so we dig the gold they benefit from it. all this year just imagine how many golds have we dug out with our sweat and blood?? our old folk from back days till now struggling?

enough of their fairy tales. we singaporeans are asking what they have done with our money and about our people. but lky is busy with foreign issue and to advice them. still travelling around the world as usual when he face alot of questions he take a break and talk co@k in foreign country. so our money again taking his flight all over the world and yet years and years he is doing this!!

we had enough of his dirty heartless tricks!

we will vote pap out this time for real! do not under estimate us for our quiteness. wait till the day come and he will be shock of his entire life as not only hundreds are waiting to vote him out but thousands and thousand here are waiting for the day to come

the army is serve by ukranians? ok maybe ukranians,china national, india national,africans,americans and so on.

do you singaporeans know what the risk here? we are not talking about short term in 2years to 3years but 10years to come.

we would no longer have our right as a singaporeans our motherland have been lease to foreign country and LKY is collecting the rent every month and would not bother what singaporeans have to say. simple to say he trade our singapore in exchange for his own interest.

if we still do not do something about this then there is many other issue that will become worst and singaporeans will suffer more and simply will be in the hand of foreigners as they have the rights over us in singapore!
foreign country ministers will dip their hands into singaporeans pocket very soon too.

so where do we singaporeans stands? guess what in the sh!t hole.

think of your future singaporeans..,think wisely. think of your own motherland.
this land belong to us.

by all means and what ever the pappies got to say this time let them say. but we singaporeans got one thing to say

WE WILL VOTE YOU OUT OF OUR MOTHERLAND!
this country doesn’t really belongs to you LKY! it belongs to all of us. you are the guardian to hold our hands and we to support you but things had gone too wild as you are not being a guardian but more like a gambler

kudos to those who believe a two party system is likely to result in constructive debates a la Australia. I admire your unbound optimism. any politician in the world who claims he/she is willing to lay all the cards on the table for any and all checks is a bloody liar, not to mention a true nitwit, plain and simple. hell, even I, a common citizen, has things to hide.

regarding foreigners in our country. well, deter them from coming and your income and my income will plunge, for sure. who’re the ones with knowledge? who’re the ones with drive and motivation? well I have these too, but not as much as the ‘hungry’ ones from overseas. they want to make a quick buck and return to their countries. Singaporeans do that too (at least where leaving the homeland to make a quick buck elsewhere is concerned). this is globalisation people, wake up.

to those who will vote for the opposition simply because the PAP is doing a poor job (from their point of view) and putting a stranglehold on local politics, do us a favour and snap out of it. in terms of talent, there’s no comparison. in terms of experience, none too. in terms of quality and integrity of governance, they are totally unproven. infact, the fact they are crazy enough to mount an opposition in the first place is proof they are unfit to be entrusted with worldly affairs of governance. the best citizens will leave governance to the elite class of philosopher kings (or the closest approximation of it anyway). Top class education of Oxbridge/ivy league calibre is definitely a must, and I wouldn’t dream of being able to contribute much to governance given my pathetic college records. so what makes the opposition think they can?

Hi #135) sickandtired

Any CEO won’t want auditor to check so he can drain money into his pocket. Any TP won’t want CPIB to check so he can corrupt. Any robber won’t want police to check so he can rob. People won’t want custom officer to check so they can bring illegal stuff into the country. A common citizen like you, if you kill someone, invade tax, corruption, rape, gun possession etc etc. The top class education of Oxbridge/ivy league calibre government will check on you and put you on jail. So you better report yourself to police now what are you hiding.

Our ruling party has developed our nation to ensure one is checking on another regardless are you a behaving citizen or not. Because they are aware that we are human being (are the top class education of Oxbridge/ivy league calibre government human being?), we have the tendency of commit crimes and we will want to hide our crimes. I admire your gut.

As for foreigners in our country. I disagree with our ruling party and I think they are totally incompetent. We should have at least 10 millions population by now and at least additional 5 millions population in next 5 yrs. Our HDB should be worth at least $1 million dollars and private property should worth multi-million dollars if our ruling party is smart enough. Don’t you agree that you would like to see our asset growth?

And your last point which I need to help you on Singapore History of General Election. Let’s turn back the clock to 1948.

20 March 1948, to elect six members to the Legislative Council :
- Singapore Progressive Party (SPP) won three seats
- Remaining seats went to Independent candidates.

The second Legislative Council election was held in March 1951 for nine seats:.
- SPP won six seats
- Singapore Labour Party (SLP) won two
- Last seat was won by an Independent candidate

1955 elections, 25 seats;
- Labour Front won10 seats
- People’s Action Party (PAP), which fielded four candidates, won three seats
(seat won by Lim Chin Siong, LKY, Goh Chew Chua)
- Progressive Party won four seats
- UMNO-MCA won three seats
- Democratic Party won two seats
- Independents won three seats respectively

PAP started off as opposition. Without the foresight and wisdom of our forefather (apparently you lack of which we need FT to compensate) voting for opposition , Singapore and PAP will not be as of today.

So what makes the opposition think they can’t?

134) sickandtired on October 30th, 2009 12.50 am

Well it is clear you are sick!!

You should be posted your comments on P65.

Finance Minister Tharman Shanmugaratnam said ” People do want to know, there is curiosity, it is a matter of public interest. That is not sufficient reason to disclose information. It is not sufficient that there be curiosity and interest that you want to disclose information.”

This is not the type of Ministers we want. We have set higher standards for our Ministers. You have lower standards.

So you’re saying its okay to bring in 5 million cheap foreign imports to take over our jobs. We can just stay at home an collect welfare? Wake up! Your must be one of those foreigners or YPAP. We are not naive as you. As you said you have many things to hide.

I want my Ministers and MPs to serve the electorate first. The may have 10 PHDs but if they are looking after themselves, it is no use to me. I rather have a sincere opposition in power who will take care of my interest. Again you have set very low standards for your Ministers.

134) sickandtired

Please share with us your wisdom.

How many foreigners do your political masters want to bring into Singapore. 7 million or 8 million? What happens when the economy is still growing and our population hits 8 million? Do we bring in another 2 or 3 million?

What happens when there is an economic meltdown when our population hits 8 million? What happens when most of the MNCs pull out? Do we have enough jobs for everyone then? Our ministers looked completely helpless in the current recession. What makes you think they can do better in the next recession when our population is 8 million?

What about our water needs? Do we have enough water to quench the thirst of 8 million people? What happens in a drought? Who gets priority for the little water left? Our Ministers or the people?

What about our food needs. We currently import 90% of our food supply? With 8 milion people we may need to import 99% of our food. Is this a good thing?

What about the huge numbers of foreigners in our midst? With a population of 8 million, there will probably be more PRCs than locals here? Is that a good thing? How do we know they won’t form a political party and elect their own people into parliament.?

How do we know the PRCs won’t stage an incident so that China can intervene here? Is it good to have so many foreigners whose loyalty is to their homeland?

Please give us the answers. Or as the Americans would say, “Put up or Shut up.”

“infact, the fact they are crazy enough to mount an opposition in the first place is proof they are unfit to be entrusted with worldly affairs of governance. the best citizens will leave governance to the elite class of philosopher kings (or the closest approximation of it anyway).”

Another piece of sh**, trying to prop up something to the level of the sky and maintain exclusivity. You have given the impression that you are plainly foolish & blind not to see the fact that counter-checking (in the form of opposition) is the best way to ensure “worldly affairs of governance”.

Elite class of philosopher kings are human too and who knows what they will do behind your back – even you, as a common citizen (where your dirt is not as costly to anyone except to yourself or your close ones), have things to hide.

i fully agree with all who said that elite class of governors are but humans too, and who knows what they’ll do behind our backs. i said too that those governors who say they have nothing to hide are liars and nitwits. is anybody going to disagree on this point? are there countries where corruption is non-existent? is obama, brown, rudd, or hu jintao going to say, i have absolutely nothing to hide, I will give my people nothing but the truth?

my point is, we are all humans, citizens and governors alike, all prone to human failings. except there are some humans less flawed than others, more superior than others. i mean, you can’t deny that. is anyone confident enough to say the calibre of the current opposition is on par with the ruling party’s? can the current opposition stand tall alongside world leaders? unless the top pap members defect to the opposition (which would be laughably foolish), i don’t see that happening anytime soon (not for another 2 generations). let me remove the idealisitc notion of politics many of you have. politics is a matter of appearances and style, it’s about placating your people via rhetoric. it’s not about the age old republican ideal of leaders serving their people selflessly for low wages. Whoever keeps up the best appearance wins in politics. just look at obama, brilliant image of brains and style. i mean, that man was born to wear a suit. his approval ratings may be dropping, but you can bet your last dollar he’s going to win a second term (provided he doesn’t meet with some fatal accident during his first time).

As for foreigners, let’s be clear. it’s a problem with no easy solution, otherwise we’d be the only country facing this. EVERY country faces immigration problems. sure, we can curb the number of foreigners coming in. that’s easy to do, but how easy is it to bear the consequences? are we going to do it australian style, where only foreign talent, and not foreign workers, are allowed to work? then fine, our people will do the mid-low level jobs that in the long term raises the cost of living. you have any idea how high the maintenance fees are that australians have to pay? sure, we can have curb the influx of talent instead. but do we have enough talent of our own to supplement our demand for it? it’s a mathematical scenario. small population = small amount of talent. the bigger the country, the higher probability of talent occurring among the people. don’t give me the argument that each of us are talented in our own way, that’s again an idealistic and unrealisitc way of looking at things.

“any politician in the world who claims he/she is willing to lay all the cards on the table for any and all checks is a bloody liar, not to mention a true nitwit, plain and simple. hell, even I, a common citizen, has things to hide.”

You have said it yourself. So for incumbent uncommon higher mortals, what do you think ?

That is why we need at least two to check on one another, to blow the whistle loudly if necessary (only if necessary). How are you going to sound off the alarm if the alarm is not even there.

Now, who is the true nitwit, plain and simple.

//sickandtired

experience of the PAP?

As if experience matter in Politics in Singapore? Basically it is LKY decide.

Voting in the opposition to make the PAP work harder is the way because if >1 million salary does work to make them work effectively, the penalty of losing 1 million would.

////sickandtired

on your who got more motivation crap, that’s why abled Singaporeans left Singapore to work in Australia in the west, in the first place.

“i mean, you can’t deny that. is anyone confident enough to say the calibre of the current opposition is on par with the ruling party’s? can the current opposition stand tall alongside world leaders? unless the top pap members defect to the opposition (which would be laughably foolish), i don’t see that happening anytime soon (not for another 2 generations).”

No guarantee. But definitely they can perform the job of a good alarm bell, another reason for being voted in.

“As for foreigners, let’s be clear. it’s a problem with no easy solution, otherwise we’d be the only country facing this. EVERY country faces immigration problems.”

Let other countries (EVERY country) have & love their own problems which they have created and deal with their own problems which are non of our business. It is ours that are impacting us more that we are more concerned.

“it’s a mathematical scenario. small population = small amount of talent. the bigger the country, the higher probability of talent occurring among the people. don’t give me the argument that each of us are talented in our own way, that’s again an idealistic and unrealisitc way of looking at things.”

Well, if you treat citizens like mathematics, then the citizens shall treat those policy makers like mathematics (digits) which are very costly by any international measure.

Of course standing from the perspective of an individual who is at the receiving end of whatever negative consequence that may befall each of us in our own country, one should just ensure that he is very much ‘counted’ (maths right ?) in the whole greater scheme of things, in so far that one may be just treated as an insignificant digit (lesser mortal & not as talented as FT) to be moved around.

I just love maths and the whole equation of giving differential viewpoints.

I observe a strange pattern of thought amongst sinkees when it comes to voting for the opposition. Many people will not vote for them just because ‘they cannot form a new government’. Of course they cannot! They cannot until they gain gradual foothold and learn to deal with problems at the governing level.

The alternative is worse – more suffering under PAP rule. Are sinkees really willing to accept that, as opposed to some HOPE for a better government, perhaps slowly??

I’ve seen that Ukrainian boy during one of my RT training a few years’ back at Bedok Camp – i.e. he’s a PTI there (read : non-combat role)

Big deal