There is no such thing as Asian values.

There is no consensus in Asia on such a thing.

I agree…whenever someone touts Asian values I have to wonder when are the Japanese going to accept Korean Values or when will the Chinese accept Tibetan values, or how about telling an Indonesian that he now has to accept all values of Vietnamese?

Most importantly TOC should have added the following lines from his article, which show exactly how the Pappy trying to brainwash reader with highfalutin nonsense again. Anyone can see what is wrong with the following rubbish ?

“And so the West, and in particular the U.S., want now to teach us how to run our countries according to their model of Democracy. Beware of their pulling cotton wool over our eyes. Do you seriously believe there is genuine Freedom and practice of Human Rights in America? May I refer you to Noam Chomsky’s “Manufacturing Consent”, a book that exposes American Democracy as a sham? And Chomsky is both a citizen and one of America’s most brilliant thinkers and incisive critics on Social and Political issues.”

The moment I read the above garbage, I stop reading. Another pathetic argument augment by Pappy. Insulting to reader’s intelligence.

Funny he should mention Gandhi. I seriously doubt Gandhi would approve the ‘Asian democracies’ of Suharto, LKY, Burma, Marcos…etc

He used past incidence to uphold his belief that Asian values are superior to western democracy. Western countries have matured so much in the last 40 years than they did in the last millennium. The values they are promoting are universal values which in a way encompassed asian values. The best values are definitely those cultivated from both cultures. To espouse that one value is more worthy than the other will only generate an extreme left or right thinking. There is just no room for consensus or having a middle ground mindset. I always thought Young PAP members are smarter than this. Debating issues with them is so much easier than I had speculated.

LoL…Gandhi may be disturbed in his eternal rest that this guy used him in such a context…

Yes yes, Ho, you can say that to justify the singapore system…but what happen in the past cannot be applied now…

He is just trying to suck up and hopefully be chosen as moddlycolled MP instead of being sent to Potong Pasir or Hougang, and ended up like Sitoh or Lau.

oh…and speaking of pulling cotton over eyes, guess who are trying to do that to fellow singaporeans?

Asian command of England no good lor, so simple!

Have you ever wondered why no OPPOSITION PARTIES have ever tried to preach to the PEOPLE in OUR PARLIAMENT about OPPOSITION’s values and way of life?

Because they know they would never stand up to the scrutiny if they ever did try.

The Young PAP walks on a very thin thread by writing such un-academic piece on the need to preserve what is ASIAN. Human Rights are Rights given naturally to humans with the brains and the heart. It is Universal regardless of what the authorities said. Coming from a political website, readers should already understood the message of status quo – that of entrenching the PAP to power is a great focus here- maybe as a reaction to recent political surprises in Japan, Malaysia, US, Greece and possibly Britain in the near future.

The Young PAP by giving such an article has given us an idea of how afraid PAP is of ground sentiments (especially in the reaction to global political events whereby the rule of a few dictators are clearly voted out by the people.) It seems that another wave of political change is taking effect. If we have waves of anti-colonialism which results in nationalism then, we now have a different wave – another awarenesss of a political resurgence. The PAP tends to compare Singapore with Third World countries and “co-incidentally” most foreigners made to come to Singapore are from these countries. These might have some effect on the dynamics of the electorate in 2011.

The people of Singapore need to realise that no human is infallible. Even the Qing Dynasty failed what more the PAP- a party with no strong ideology lest pragmatism to help them cling on into power. The State Machineries are clearly political and headed by “suposedly PAP-ies lackeys.” There is a fundamental fault in the whole system that needs some rectification. Some PAP MPs (whom I spoke to) even goes to the extent to declare that they are no politics in Singapore. There are only administrative works. This is bad and will hurt the dynamics of the nation.

It is time that we reject false truism and stand up for our principles- doing what is right for us. I sincerely believe the New Dawn is arriving- it’s only a matter of time.

LKY tout his so call Asian Values because he is in power.

When he got booted out by people, he will sell democracy.

Ha ha, this is the first time I go into the YPAP site and what a load of bull I’ve discovered.

This guy ought to be reprimand by the YPAP:

1) “Cultural Bananas” ; If LKY is #2 nobody will be #1.

2) Talk about colonial master, I tot LKY is the one working with them to lock up all the true independent fighters that truly believe in ” Asian Value” . People like Lim Chin Siong …

I have just a short sentence to sum up to what Ho Choew Seng is trying to convey to
us.He says things from both sides of his mouth,that is; western values that are
considered good by the PAP for Singapore is modernization.On the other hand,other
western values that are considered bad by the PAP for Singapore is westernization.

Ah yes, i read that some time back. What a foolish piece. “For all Afro-Americans and all coloured peoples of the world, indeed the wheel has come full circle.” – very bold statement, smacks of contempt against white people. A shame, really, for a Political Party which loves to remind us not to stir racial tensions, this ignoramus got away with it because he is associated with YPAP.

Suprisingly he’s written on TOC before: http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/10/investors-to-submit-fourth-petition-to-mas/, comment #7. And here, too: http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/11/false-dawn/ A complete about turn, i must say! I don’t know what this guy is thinking.

Could TOC please clarify their position on this person? As far as i’m concerned this Ho Cheow Seng who posts on YPAP and ON TOC is the same person, unless by some luck of the draw there are two Ho Cheow Sengs out there who write about politics and society in Singapore.

Bye bye Singapore, I never thought that it is so easy to leave you behind. Have fun with your “Asian Values” and you can keep them.

“Have you ever wondered why no Asian countries have ever tried to preach to countries in the West about our Asian values and way of life?”

1) Maybe it is some secret recipe that we wish to keep it for only ourselves (own use only) without wanting to share or divulge it.
2) Maybe we do not believe them too much ourselves, hence we need foreign talents to confirm some “mediocre” of ours (values) ?.

Some asian countries don’t preach to the West but they preach (not verbally but by the use of stick) to their own people. You do not need to wonder, you just know it from the many examples around floating around.

@ 13) http://vonhayek.blogspot.com/

Hang on…wasn’t he trying to sell democracy BEFORE he came into power?? First, he was for freedom of speech, equal opportunities, access to information, unions for the people…now, it’s all hypocrisy only found in the corridors of Oxley Rise.

maybe we should enquire what kind of (political) asian value system he is preaching.

it seems that PAP’s current stance is: if you can’t convince, confuse.

The much touted Asian values have become as valuable excuse for the practise nepotism, cronism, despotism and dictatorship. Its precisely because of democracy and freedom of speech that America has a black president and not psedo monarchy, where rule of the nation is controlled by a family.

what do u expect from a frog in the well? Our so called warped “asian values” based loosely on confucianism is basically reactionary!

I tend to agree with Mr. Wang who said:

QUOTE

I don’t like “Asian values”. It usually implies dishonesty. Most of the time, when someone is using that term, he’s actually pushing his own secret agenda.

That someone could be an authority figure using “Asian values” to tell you why you should respect his authority.

He could be a suppressor of free speech, using “Asian values” to tell you why he should have the power to suppress your speech.

UNQUOTE

Read more: http://mrwangsaysso.blogspot.com/2009/05/meaninglessness-of-asian-values.html

Is it because it is so good that we rather keep for ourselves?

If Asia Value if so good, I think LKY should send his scions to North Korea for education.

Why go Cambridge or MIT or Harvard? All this places are the most liberal segment of western democracy. Even more liberal than the average society.

Human rights values are universal. There is no Eastern or Western.
Its been defined under the UN Charter where all member countries
are signatories to it.
I would squirm if N Korea , Burma goverments preach
to others their system of govt as Asian values.
If Ho’s article were to be put up on TOC or TR, it would have been
shredded to pieces.

Human rights values are universal. There is no Eastern or Western.
Its been defined under the UN Charter where all member countries
are signatories to it.
I would squirm if N Korea , Burma goverments preach
to others their system of govt as Asian values.
Ho’s article would have been shredded to pieces if
it were posted elsewhere but his master’s site.

“Have you ever wondered why no Asian countries have ever tried to preach to countries in the West about our Asian values and way of life?”

actually, singapore pap politicians are precisely guilty of this. in the 90’s, politicians like goh chok tong spoke frequently on Asian values in the news media. not only that, the term Asian values was often conflated with Confucian values, which basically suggested the inferiority of the values of non-East Asians versus the Chinese, Koreans and Japanese, not exactly something politically correct even for those times. PAP speech transcripts from the 90’s will be heavy with these references. if the writer had done his research, he would not have written that statement.

talk of asian values climaxed just prior to the Asian financial crisis of 1997. allegations of crony capitalism by the West during the financial crisis quickly put an end to any talk of the superiority of asian values vis-a-vis other kinds of values, which is why we no longer hear of Asian values today. i was still in junior college at the time, but even i recall this. the writer of the youngpap article is either very young or very ignorant. even just a cursory google search of “Asian values” will throw up a few articles from that era.

of course, with regards to crony capitalism, the shoe is now on the other foot, thanks to the credit crisis of 2008 and the Great Recession.

Asian values? Just see compare our employment practices with the west.

If the Asian values are so good, why you see Asians migrating to the West or even Down Under but not the other way round?

JUST HOPE THIS FELLA GOES TO EUROPE OR THE STATES AND SAY THIS..
HE CAN SAY THIS BULLSHIT BECAUSE HE IS IN HIS COMFORT ZONE….
UNDER THE BIG PROTECTION WHICH IS THE PAP’S UNBRELLA OF INFLUENCE….

Is this Mr Ho related to Ho Ching? Seems to be writing nonsense. Just trying his luck to see if it will help him climb up the party ladder.

If this Ho is any indication of the kind of next generation of “leadership” the PAP wants to groom, I say HALLELUJAH for the opposition in the general elections 10 years from now. The dolts who write approving posts in response to his bullshit are (thankfully) no better!

Some time ago our MM Lee toured the northern European countries of Sweden and Norway, and a Norwegian asked about the high renumeration paid to the
Singapore Ministers in Govt. Our MM replied that Singapore do not pay out mediocre salaries to Ministers, giving the impression to the Norwegian that Singapore leaders are of high calibre and thus deserve very high pay, and Norway
give mediocre pay to mediocre Ministers. This is a subtle way of preaching Asian values to the West.
We always cringe when MM Lee go on tours and keep repeating the Singapore story to whoever he visits, and thus constitute preaching Singapore values to these foreign leaders e. g. to the Armeian leaders recently. Singapore is a small country, and we believe in humility, as our head is too small for a large hat. Why not concentrate on serving our country, instead of trying to spread our values to the rest of the world, subtle it may be.

Most Asian countries have unexisting or limited democracy. Only those that are illiterate or MCP embraces Asian values.

The main pervading value is DEMOCRACY.

Once that is aggressively respected, everything else will fall in place, like;
Human rights
Equality
Respect
Freedom of Speech
…….etc

It’s true humans always corrupt ideal virtues and morals, but so far, it seems only the West has most of these “values” listed above. You don’t see Asian values coming even close.

Posts #21 & #23 hit the nail on the head. Asian values are basically giving the license to be corrupt legally the Asian way. And Singapore has mastered this ancient (F)art down to its last T.

Asian values are Kiasu values. Nothing to preach about. But guess what, government mainstream used to sing praises about the virtues of being kiasu to stay ahead. This is Singapore for you. And what country in the right mind (except Singapore again), would use an embarrassing bengish “icon” (PCK) to represent Singapore in the Amazing Race 3 (2002), let alone a fictitious one.

Someone’s head would have had rolled in more intelligent circles for making such absurd choices; but no, as usual, no. Maybe, this then should have served as the trends to come, the warning that accountability in guarded civil structures was, NIL, NADAH, NON Existent, in the years to come -think, Mas Selamat, Temasek..etc.

This clearly shows our little city state of Sodom & Gomorrah is the whimsical playground of one or more demented crony/lackey/pappy..??, where anything goes and without consequence.

And pray tell, why no punishments to those that erred and erred really badly. Now now my children, we must NEVER wash our dirty laundries in public. It’s a common sense Asian value. Now go study for your imperial exams and be good little emperors/dowagers in future. ;)

Taking good care of the elderly is one of the better asian values. But do all remember the hoohaa before the government gave a miserly increase to the amount given to the elderly on social assistance, maybe Ho should preach to his boss first.

what is the pap preacher mubblin? asian values as in?
where on earth in asia do you find a caretakin government who would looked after YOUR financial interest$ when you attained the retirement age of 55($$)
all this while when you were gettin married..you started your owned familLEE and trained your kids to be respon$ible citizen$
out of nowhere the carin government of $ingapore worrid that when you attained $$55 you don’t even know how to look after your retirement ne$t…
only leekuanyew can take care for you..later pa$$ed on to his $on….

Old story, nothing new.

Chomsky…does not say it is a sham…it is the system put in place which needs tuning.

Ho…go read the book again, if you do not understand ask someone to explain.

Then Ghandi was fighting for independence for India, he was not against their (The British) culture or ideas or for that matter values.
Ghandi just wanted to show that India could survive without the British, however, he himself was flawed in certain areas.

Ho, please don’t twist dead peoples words.

Ho, please read East & West by Chris Patten, he would give you a clear picture of where we all meet.
In the meantime, don’t try to be colourful when you do not know jack sh*t about Western Liberal Demoracy and for that matter Asian Values itself.

It’s all politics – western vs asian, them vs us – the notion that one is superior over the other and speaking on your behalf, deciding for what you should or should not be!

In this age of globalisation, are there still things as asian or western? I’m an Earthling, I don’t care whether it’s asian or western, as long as it’s from the Earth and more importantly – it works!

PAP may preach asian values, Fat Kim Il Sung may preach asian values and jihadist ring leaders advocate suicide bombing All dont like evil western power….etc.

One thing there have in common. All send their scions to study in western countries, nevermind someone else son be suicide bomber or starve to death in famine or pay $300 000 HDB.

If democracy is evil why Loong study in harvard and cambridge, Syria’s assad in UK, Fat Kim Son all in switzerland and Lee Hong Yi now in MIT.

There must be something wrong.

Singaporean is not going to be duped into all this bullshit. We are not going to believe what PAP told us. We are going to boot out PAP, who do not put their sons where their mouth is.

Lets paraphrase this section:

The observation has been made that it is those countries in the West, who were former colonisers of countries in Asia (now the govt of singapore), and who robbed lands belonging to others (the state land Act, exhorbitant cost of public services, high prices of new HDB flats etc), suppressing the native inhabitants of the lands they conquered (opposition members who was hounded out of the country and families threatened), and stealing their valuable resources (imposing fines that was meant to destroy them) to fuel their own industrialization (ambition of total control) now condescendingly want to teach us how to govern ourselves following their model wholesale (effectively meaning a puppet democracy with power lies in the hands of a few is better off for singaporeans)

Mr Ho Cheow Seng

No, I never wondered because ‘Asian values’ and ‘way of life’ are MYTHS. Yes, MYTHS! You will find shoes, eggs, stones all flying your way if anyone preaches these in the West.

Asian values? Sheer arrogance to think these values originated in Asia. They are universal human values — those of mutual respect, filial piety, compassion, help for the weaker and less fortunate among us, respect for one another irrespective of race, colour, religion or culture, quest for knowledge. The list goes on.
To claim them as Asian values does not put us Asians in a virtuous light. It only makes us look like narrow-minded bigots.

Mr Ho Cheow Seng,

Please tell us more about Asian values and Asian way of life.

Seriously, are you still wet behind the ears?

Please pay heed to the comments posted here; they are suggestive of your mental immaturity or ignorance.

The author of that poorly articulated YPAP article fails to mention that these “western” ideas of universal freedom and human rights evolved from the “west’s” being witness to the carnage and horror of two world wars.

He happily mixes up their prior actions as colonialists and their violence as masters with their “freedom” and “human rights” which at the best were concepts applicable only to the members of their elite at that time.

I find it ironic that where our ancestors were once victims of repression (to varying degrees) and humiliated by the absence of these concepts, people like Mr Ho would push for the their rejection.

Then again, it may not be surprising, given how some people in the “west” do actually fight against these values, convinced of their own superiority. This is not merely an “east” vs “west” thing.

Rule of thumb:

PAP Smear = Old Cancer
YPAP Smear = New Cancer

Conclusion: Both deadly. Both has to go. End of discussion.

I find it disheartening that so many people on this like Oxford Dude going “There is no such thing as Asian values.” You’re missing the point. Let me elaborate. Briefly, yes, there are Asian values, but obviously something went deeply wrong along the way back in the day when the two powers of east and west first collided. We have in a fit of envy, adobted the worst values of the western world (greed, economic progress), and merged it with a subset of our own Confectionist ideals (filial piety, meritocracy, etc) creating unfortunately a deadly combination. Allow me to elaborate.

Consider the problem of 忠. What does 忠 mean to you? It might mean: climbing the rungs of the social ladder because you fear disappointing your parents. It might mean: making an decent income so you can retire them in luxury. It might mean: doing well in your ‘A’ levels so that your parent’s money spent on your precious education is not in vain … it’s going to an ivy league university … getting a government scholarship … it means everything except any resembling authentic, TRUE human values, PURE love and compassion!!

Look at the 农历新年. What is it to you? It has become nothing more than a farce, a shadow of what it used to be. Oh, How we resent those idle conversations! How you resent that smug look on Uncle Chee’s eye when he says “but I’m sending MY SON overseas to OXFORD!”, and you have no wry rebuttal except “er … good for u”. And to those who can’t stand the idle chatter, we take great lengths to avoid it … let’s plan a trip to malaysia! that’s got to be better than visiting your own brother!! And we wonder what is the cause of this plague is of emptiness! And we wonder where our true, beautiful “ASIAN” values have gone! No wonder everyone here’s so nihilistic about these matters.

It all works SO well, doesn’t it, till it is your turn to endure that dark night of the soul – retrenchment, death, bankruptcy, cancer, debt, a car accident, the strange and terrible card which life deals to you with no warning, and all of a sudden you discover that you’re all alone in that ‘A’-class ward (I mean, you can afford good healthcare after all), bored and wondering if anyone really gave a shit about you in the first place. Perhaps your children come, but they don’t stay long. They have tuition classes to go to. Perhaps your friends visit, and give you a few get-well-soon cards, but they have work to go back to. And between the meaningless visits, now fewer and farther between, you are simply floating in limbo, englulfed by the sense of darkness and emptiness … all those channels you’ve upgraded to aren’t worth watching … all the toys you bought suddenly are no longer fun to play … and you can’t help but wonder just what the fuck went wrong.

Fascinating!

Why then does the Government/PAP send so many scholars to Cambridge, Oxford, Harvard, Stanford and MIT? Does not make any sense at all. Hypocricy? Stupidity? Suckers for punishment?

Why are we relying on the US military umbrella? Why do we have a naval base just for the US? Why are we relying on trading with the US? Why are we allowing US television and Hollywood to brainwash us and our young? And why does the MOE keep bringing in de Bono, an American, to show our principals and teachers how to be creative? Why did we even think about appointing an American to run Temasek?

We are bonkers and two-faced, that’s why! We are now incapable of thinking, of separating the wheat from the chaff. We are simply running with the line: East good, West bad. We Asians have all the virtues and the West has all the vices.

I say, put your money where your mouth is and tell all Westerners/ex-colonialists to get off the Singapore bus. We do not wish to be contaminated.

And, yes, we will ban all Singaporeans from entering the Miss Universe and Miss World contests – degnerate, degrading and disgraceful Western nonsense. We do not need them. We would rather starve!

Look at all the politicians, their families, their sons and daughters, classmates and relatives – all rich and bloated. Same here and in China or anywhere else in Asia.

Everything is about money and power in Asian values, what values? It is almost dynastic.

Oxford dude is right. There is no such thing as Asian values. How does one define Asian values? Are the values in East Asia and Singapore the same as those in India or the Russia? Are the values in a Karen tribe similar to that of urban Singapore?

In fact, the so-called Asian values are nothing more than Sino-centric ideas propagated by dictators who are keen to hold on to power. The most vocal proponents of Asian values used to be LKY and Dr. M, who used confucian emphasis on repect and authority to ensure that people remain subservient. Outside of SEA, I’ve never heard anyone talking about Asian values. Maybe because it’s really nothing more than propaganistic BS, heh?

Why then does the Government/PAP send so many scholars to Cambridge, Oxford, Harvard, Stanford and MIT? Does not make any sense at all. Hypocricy? Stupidity? Suckers for punishment?

IT IS THEIR SONS WHO GO TO THESE SCHOOLS. HOW TO EMULATE THE BRITISH EDUCATED MR LEES ?

For all their education, none of these people have the moral fibre nor the testicular fortitude to step forward and be counted.

Lets assume East Asian Value (confucius) is what PAP refering. To live in such society means

1) Emperor will have thousands of consort

2) To keep those young under-sexed consort, emperor will need thousands of Eunuch.

3) Emperor is able to murder up to 10th extended families when he is not happy with someone.

4) The Emperor can humiliate his subjects by mandating all female kins to be prostitute

4) All woman must self injured their feet till crippled to create 3 inch lotus.

5) Capital punishment may mean slow death of 3 days and 10 000 cuts.

I want to thank all western colonial power who invade China. Because of them, Chinese are finally freed from evils.

It is not the eastern values region is China but Hong Kong, the most westernized that is the most prosperous.

Utter Bullshit! YPAP grow up to be PAP members, they’ll rot and become senile over time.

Arrogant fools. Im getting the msg of him boasting “asian values” supremacy? And trying to justify the PAP’s regime???

Boy, i wouldnt be surprised if he was paid to said that! (if not brain dead brainwashed)

Im sick of their shit. Even YPAP’s spouting them. Sick of it!

The old man himself not so long ago (1980s) declared that Australians were the “white trash of Asia” – Ho is simply following in grand-dad’s footsteps. One of our virtues (Asian value) is of course that we are ever so humble.

By the way, how many of the elite are Christians. They should straight away renounce Christianity as it is full of Western values.

What a load of humbug, bullshit, clap-trap and unadulterated stupidity, ignorance and bigotry

Thanks to globalisation and the internet, we now know better what is fictional and what is fact . Otherwise we will still believe the well (if we are frogs) is the safest and happiest place, outside it is a big bad world, all doomed to oppression.

you know what, you guys should go over there and comment. take the fight to them!