Indonesian PR. I am not surprised.

Influx of foreigners —-> Mad HDB prices —-> Govt not doing anything about it —-> multi-millionaire ministers & MPs reaping millions from property investments.

I wish the elections were here already.

Just want to boot these idiots out of office.

I am not surprise, is that what MBT mean by HDB is affordable?

And hence forth, let the price continue to rise…

1) Tan Cheng Hua

I wish the elections were here too. MBT can ‘afford’ but I cannot afford to wait more.

with this pricing, it is going to have a chain effect on HDB valuation price around that area.

.. elections may not do much good..
if it is rigged to their benefit…
I’ve a feeling we might well need to be RESCUED…!

This is madness! Simply madness!

MBT is clueless. He is lost.

I can’t wait for the elections to vote in the opposition.

Time for Change is now.

Yuppie! Everyone going to be very filthy rich. Who is complaining? I’m selling mine and retiring to greener pasture just across the river. Long Live Marlboro – come buy mine at 8% discount.

Younger Singaporeans will never be able to own a flat. Singapore is really becoming a home for foreigners and a nightmare for Singaporeans.

When will this madness end?

My citizen friend said he would not sell his flat even though the market prices are so hi now because buying a new one would cost EVEN MORE!!!!

on paper , hdb lease owners may look richer now. in effect , to me , only if you sell it and Do Not Need a house are you able to enjoy the market price.

or is there another way?

they have a name for this. affordable market price for an hdb flat (forgot to add, for a 4-room hdb flat).

do not be too choosy for choice areas, just move to the swamp.

MBT opens our legs to outsiders (especially the rich foreigners), having them to come in to rape the properties here. At the same time, allowing cheap labours to take away the jobs on the pretext of helping businesses to lower there operating costs, of which, rental costs (directly proportionate to property prices) constitute the major part overall running costs.

Meanwhile, on papers, the government deemed to have ironed out Singapore’s GDP with beautiful GDP numbers, and shamelessly increasing there own salaries.

There WILL only be one outcome eventually: Middle to Lower income earners of Singaporeans WILL SUFFER.

PAP, stop all these craps please!

I stay at Telok Blangah & one day, some agent came knocking on my door. He was trying to convince me to part with my 4-Room flat & promised that it could easily fetch around S$450000!! Wow, that shocked me for a while & I could just think of the things I could buy with that sort of money! But alas, when I came to my senses, I realised that I need a place to stay after selling my house. It’s not as if I could just take the money & bail; I still need to fork out money for another flat. It got me thinking that I will be in much more debt after that! Looking at the property prices now, all I could say it’s that it’s just insane.

All these PRs are driving the property prices over the top & end of the day, it’s the regular Singaporeans that will suffer. Regular Joes that served NS & are told to take the bitter pill. so how many more of these bitter pills are we gonna take? Should we down some bitter syrup too? It’s gonna end, sometimes; so pls dont take us lesser mortals as idiots (my parents’s generation has gotten enough shit already) & stop using those out of date tactics to scare us; it wont work in the 21st century!!

I honestly thinks that 600k 4 room flat is not cheap.
Talking about cheap, have a look at this price list :

http://www.carpages.co.uk/guide/porsche/

Porsche Cayman costs , in sing dollars, a mere $83K (36K british pounds)
Porsche Boxster is even Cheaper! dirt cheap @ 33K british pounds.

The main thing is they are all brand new. pristine condition.

I just bot a Hyundai Santa Fe for similar price. Oh, slightly more expensive @ $86K actually.

the world is so amazing.

vroooom vrooooom!!

Big news in today’s Shit Times. 4-rm flat (969 sq ft) sold for record price. Who buys it? Foreigners for sure. This is how the government brings up the economy. Free market play, that go beyond reason. At $653,000 and $ 68,000 above valuation price, only cash rich foreigners can pay fo such unrealistic price.

20 years ago when I bought my walk up private apartment at Mangis Rd area 1629 sq.ft, freehold, I paid $290,000/- for it. It is a dream now for people to think of it.

How can HDB, supposed to be for the public and average income citizens escalated to such absurd selling price. Who are to blame for such state of affair?
The government, MOM, and Mabok (katek ayam) Tan.

Will the authority set this pseudo inflated price of HDB to its decent level so that the average citizens and young couples can afford to buy. OMG !

Its clear there is 1 way out.

No wonder HDB says their new flats are “highly subsidised”.

But again, the government said PRs and new migrants are only a small fraction of HDB resales. How come the government has reasons to everything? And of course, it is not their fault, the fault is on us.

How come foreigners are allowed to buy (resale) SUBSIDIZED HOUSING ???

patriot

In the first place, how the hell the evaluation price at $585,000 almost same as a condo 3 to 4 years back. Don’t talk about the COV.

(1) How this evalaution price being avaluate?
(2) Any guidelines on the evaluation to follow?
(3) Is this evalaution company government control or private operated?
(4) Who give the guideline to follow, if any?
(5) Which Government department to control and approve this evalaution pricing?

I think we Singaporean need to know the roots of this and question the right department about it.

PAP keep saying to control and cool down the property price, why we still see the price go up each day. I think all our PAP MP must have a lot of properties on hand to wait for the right time to sell it off, before taking action on this property price issue. So they will not burn their hand, instead they fill their pocket with more cash.

So Singaporean, beware of the property bubble, it will burst once our MP clear off their properties and those who fall into thier trap will suffer more.

This is insane. Very soon HDB flats will hit the 1 mil transaction price.

SINGAPOREAN PLEASE RECALL BACK TEN OVER YEARS AGO

There is one person brought a Condo in Orchard with a discounted rate by the developer and exposed out to Singaporeans. Due to that person status and power he got the special discounted rate and end up all property buyers and agents suffer for more than 10 years or more, just to cover up his wrong. So beware the same incident will happen again when the bubble brust by our Government. Who will suffer? Think about it.

The Management of HDB and National Development should just step down.

Since beginning of 90’s, because of their poor planning on housing supplies HDB prices have been swinging wildly.

We should expect leaders of good planning ability, not just reacting to circumstances. What these people are doing now is simply catching up with the trend of sentiment and also the trend of property prices.

The stream of new supply or new HDB flats should be built at a constant rate, regardless of GDP and economies at large. This is rational because our population is expanding though at a slow rate. This method is far better than trying to catch up with demand, or stopping the entire supply when sentiment dies down.

PAP, remember this whole thing is supposed to be public housing policy. If you guys want to play the game like the developers and businessmen, please resign and join the private sector.

HDB is doing a disservice to the government.

This will only encourage more Singaporeans to leave the country.

If you sell high, you and your children have to buy high.

So now it’s a good time to sell and cash out. Use the profits to buy a decent home in Australia or New Zealand.

21) Richard Tan

That was a case of ‘i can’t enjoy, thus shall the rest’.

This time round, no more Scott 28, it will be Sentosa Cove.

If this madness continues, foreigners who genuinely want to become citizens will think twice about applying for the red passports. This must be good news for Singaporeans who believe this island is overcrowded.

But it makes you wonder if the MIW know what they are doing. They seem confused. On the one hand they want more foreigners to become citizens and on the other, prices of homes are no longer affordable to these foreigners. The MIW actually have lost the plot. The are walking blindly and groping around.

Sad. Very Sad. Beware of very drastic actions to control the housing market now.

Dun worry MBT probably already planning affordable “public” housing akin foreign workers’ dormitory in Serangoon Gardens for future SG lesser mortals

I had a conversation with a property agent recently. She has been in the business for a long time. So I asked her: “Why’re property prices going crazy when we’re having our worst recession?”

This was what she told me. Basically, the influx of PRs is one of the problems. She used the example of Indian PRs from India. They come to S’pore without much money, gets a job and try to buy a flat. And they run into several problems.

1. HDB’s ethnic quota policy means Indians, who’re in the minority, find it hard to buy a flat. And so they try to rent one instead.

2. And even if they find a flat they like and are willing to pay for it, Chinese owners are reluctant to rent to them, for whatever reasons.

3. So they do their calculations – that if they bought a flat instead, at whatever price, and rent out the rooms and hall to foreign workers (who’re also finding it hard to find accomodation), they would be able to pay for the flat and make a decent profit as well.

4. So, these PRs buy up the flats, no matter what the price. They’re willing to pay any price because no matter how high it is, all they need to do is to rent it out to as many as 10 foreign workers at say, $300 per head. That’s a decent $3,000 each month. Pay the loan and still make a profit.

5. Once property prices go up further, they sell the flat for a profit.

In the meantime, HDB is happy that the flats are being bought. Property prices rising is a sign – to the outside world – that things are going pretty well in S’pore. Hence, more investors will come, and more people would want to be PRs.

This is pure madness indeed as young S’porean couples who’re looking to start a family and get a flat are being priced out of the market, or have to take huge loans to purchase a simple flat.

A 3-room goes for as high as $300,000.

In the 80s, Lee Kuan Yew boasted that if the PAP remained the govt, a 4-room HDB flat would be worth $400,000.

Indeed, this is coming true – and more.

Marlboro:
“$653,000 ? That’s still very affordable to me. Just 2-4 months of million-dollars salary. It is not even 1 year to pay for the flat, let alone 30 years that lesser mortal complain about. People shouldn’t start complaining because what is affordable to me is affordable for others. Like other Pappy, I set the benchmark not lesser mortal. I set the benchmark to whatever international statistic and number I like. If I and others can afford the flat, so can you ! Lesser mortals just don’t know what’s good for them ! What they need is a dose of bad Marlboro !”

Citizen: Marlboro, stop smoking, can you ? Come down from Ivory Heaven !

Marlboro: Smoking ? Can lesser mortal even tell if I am smoking or farting ? Smell the “smoke” before you talk again.

This is to tell you more good year, swiss stardand, world class country, so that HDB can sell higher price for the new house, minister can have multi million $ salary

The only way to unlock the “wealth” in such rising prices is if we leave for good, ie sell and run.

That will be difficult for locals. But for foreigners staying here over a 5 or 10 year period, it is very easy.

Come here, buy HDB flat; work work for 5-10 years, earn megabucks and can springboard to better countries, then sell the HDB flat. rakes in the bucks all round at the expense of locals.

>>3. So they do their calculations – that if they bought a flat instead, at whatever price, and rent out the rooms and hall to foreign workers (who’re also finding it hard to find accomodation), they would be able to pay for the flat and make a decent profit as well.

Precisely….personally heard of a former PRC PR turned SG (courtesy of MIWs) Poly fresh graduate of about 1 yr buying a 5-rm re-sale and renting out ALL spare rms ..sigh.

Have heard of PRs renting out condos and staying in resale HDBs.
Can our good friend Mr.Leong at TOC dig up the percentage of resale HDBs and condos owned by PRs and aliens.
I think the figure will surprised everyone.
MIW will never reveal the figures.
Seems like every other Tiong, Maniam, John is into the speculation game
Meanwhile true-blue newly-weds cannot afford to set up home..

Why did the foreigner pay such a high price?

What is even more weird is how did the previous owner know he can sell at such a record price ? It was reported that what the previous owner paid was 2.5 times less than the selling price. How did he know he can SET this kind of PRICE?

normal 4 room flats are now going at between 300K to 450K.

Why did the foreigner pay for this kind of price? Would this cause the market price to rise?

Very strange. Why was this kind of news released?

Whats going on?

Can the authorities do what is right?!

If his allowed to go on, eventually a 4 room can cost 1 million, a 5 room can cost 1.5 million and so forth.

But the timing should coincide with my migrating to new pasture.

Crazy! That’s why Singaporeans cannot afford. Imagine all the other small time Indonesians and other foreigners who can pay above market value but it’s just not reported in the media. that’s fueling the crazy prices as well.

Cannot afford. Think i gotta stay with my parents for life while earning a miserable salary and cannot afford to get married. Who in the right mind, would want to pay 653k for a 99 year old lease?

MBT: flat prices low, owners complain. Now we made all you flat owners richer, at least on paper, you also complain. so what you want? please be grateful!

Have you ever wondered why suddenly one flat here or one private property there are sold with incredible high prices?

It forces one to think : WHAT REALLY WENT THE SCENE?

The desperate drive to give the impression that Singapore is not sinking and is thriving has certainly take a very bold step forward!

Transactions like these lead to an endless cycle of higher prices. That’s because when pricing new flats, HDB relies on resale transactions to decide how much to extort for new flats. The more $653,000 resale transactions there are, the more HDB’s coffers will be bloated.

Better still, the government can then proudly proclaim that through their talented stewardship, asset values have risen exponentially, and by their unselfish generosity, market subsidies have also increased. HDB will incur a larger than expected huge “loss” out of all this.

At the present rate of increase, HDB flats will go for $1,000,000 within 5 years and Singapore will have the highest number of millionaires in the world. Who needs a mundane Swiss standard of living when we can all be Masters of the Universe. Forget gold. It is the Super Duper Platinum Period that awaits us at the end of the HDB rainbow.

21) Richard Tan on November 13th, 2009 10.48 am ,

u r rite, Richard…

the truth in the game of property prices rise started more than 10 years ago. the players are mainly began with ‘rich VIP’ tai-tai or relatives (u know what i mean) and then sell it off to the foreigners (mainly indonesian and taiwanese) for huge profits.

i think history is going to repeat soon again in the proprety industry by such ‘manipulator’. THIS IS THE TROUBLE WITH ELITES THINKING.

they (HDB MBT), play we pay..

27) Andrew Loh

How many of such cases are there?
How many” Indian dormitories ” in HDB block now? 10 Indians in a flat?

I see contradictions in the story here….

///They come to S’pore without much money, ///
/// they bought a flat instead, at whatever price, ////

how do they do that? use color photocopier ?

sorry I am naive, please enlighten, or is your agent smoking you?

In 1978 I bought my 5-room HDB flat re-sold by the HBD at the original price of $27,000 after the previous owner returned the flat when he upgraded to a private property. At that time, HDB flat owners were not allowed to sell their flats in the open markets.

In the 1980s, the prices of new and resale HDB flats went up. When Chiam S T complained in parliament that the HDB was making huge profits LKY challenged him to build flats at a cheaper price.

Previously, the price of each HDB flat was based on the construction cost which is fair as the government had acquired all these land at peanut prices. As property prices increased over the years in land-scarce singapore and the owners reaping huge profits the government become wiser. So, the prices of new HDB flats are now based on the resale prices.

Why don’t LKY now challenge Chiam or Low K T to build flats at a cheaper price?
It is now 100% possible to build and sell them cheaper than the HDB.

42) Edward

In the 60s ,a landed property in a suburbanm area at only 40k. It is now valued at 1.5 mil.
The HDB flats at Queenstown were first sold at $6,300 in late 60s.

Tell those living there if they will sell you at that price today, the answer would be obvious.

So it depend which side of the equation are are on.

#43) KopitiamApek
‘Tell those living there if they will sell you at that price today, the answer would be obvious.’
…………………………………………………..

You jumped to the wrong conclusion! No where did I mention that HDB flat owners should sell their flats to other people at the original prices.

What I want to point out is that the HDB is now making profits from selling these flats now, esp. when all these land have been acquired at dirt-cheap prices. Even before those BTO flats and E-condo are built the government already made hugh profits, hundreds of million from the land tenders.

44) Edward

The problem arises because we perceive the money collected by the govt as taken away from us. Cannot blame anybody for having this line of thought though. as many feel that the govt is precisely doing that.

But all revenure collected are really the people’s money, then we will start to look at it quite differently. The IR site was sold for billions, collected from Sands into the public coffers of Singapore. But if it had been sold for a song, it is a nation’s loss.

Picture this, If an empty plot of land next to your flat is sold based on historical acquisition cost and construction cost and it come up to (hypothetically) one third of the price of a flat in your block recently sold, what will that do to the value of your flat?

No need long story people…….Its an unfair world we are living in. What do you do when PAP never listens to all our cries, sufferings etc??? When PAP keeps implementing policies that is disadvantageous to us S’poreans? When they helped themselves with ‘out of this world salaries’ and tells us S’poreans not to expect too high salaries otherwise foreign investments won’t invest in S’pore. When they keep changing and tweaking policies to their advantage.

Does it make us, S’poreans ‘feel better’ when all we do is just to complain, and do nothing else? Why ’slog’ so hard when our take home pay can’t take us home every month?

What should we do then, so that PAP listens to us? When all channels of ‘negotiations’ are exhausted and still there’s no improvement in our lives, economically and socially, then it is only right that WE STAND UP FOR OUR RIGHTS through peaceful march, civil disobedience participation, sending our message to the MIW not to take us for granted and enough is enough.

What is there to lose further when one trys so hard eking out a living that seems never enough to put food on table. Prayerfully, I hope we won’t read news on S’poreans taking their own precious lives over ‘financial hardships’.

We must be the Change we want to be.

yes!!! There’s a millionaire living in my block…time to go make friends…

by the way hope the lift breaks down everyday….lol…..

Singapore government as usual genius.

Other countries die die make cars; incurs pollution, incurs costs, incurs loss, unemployment.

Singapore print one piece of paper (COE); same or more than cost of actual car. No costs incurred. No pollution. No employment/unemployment too! Where to find?

Man pays more than half million for HDB instead of condo cos he likes the view? Hmm…
So many questions so little time.
Also, everything paper says can believe?
I stopped buying ST long long time already.

the agent in front is my cousin husband.

he is really smart man.

last time he sign on under army.

he say come out to work in private sector better.

he really has vision than rather just continue to sign on.

i think not even 5 years he make it to the newspaper.

Hello fellow citizens,

i am seeing a clearer picture now why we are not a nation and a country mentioned by our esteemed leader but a city …that the road is path with Gold ingots in the eyes of the riches soul…. very soon….in the next decade or more …..reading this morning zhaobao. Singapore fast becoming a dependency or province of mainland China and definitely there is no U-turn in their relaxed immigration policy… let move on

the trend now, not just the super rich but “normal rich” prc snapping up properties in this city more than the rich malaysian, indonesian etcs…. why our “citizen homes” prices never comes down instead the govt “artificially” planned as not to allow private property burst in-spite we are going through the worst economic recession.

and do u know why…. because the high price we pay through taxes for a safe and contribution by all citizens toward security…to be enjoyed by other guests contributing inflated to sustain higher GDP ….think logic citizens – why the guests are here and not surrounding islands – what make up the majority ethnic group in singapore.

property developers putting up road shows in overseas and providing 1st class and one-stop services… free air trips,nice accommodation and good food, school enrollment, banking and legal services and many more….everything you want to know singapore…all out to service You. Developers should thank our govt .. for saving them but in return… who benefit, your guess is as good as mine… Wow, what goes around, comes around… what a wonderful world.

real sad for this city meant for the rich, instead of solving the roots of the problems for the past 20 years which “they” claimed to have the good foresight, back then we still have the resources, now “they” only managed to think short-cut solutions, keep extinguishes all fire around “them” without looking into the social implications aspect affecting the people ….jobs, family, children, retirement etcs…the city outlook just look superficially good but, internally all cracks are appearing.

Like they had hinted “Please take care yourself” when you are out of your unproductive years.

Also, please our people-funded “scholarly citizens” don’t always workout huge economic figures to show to your ‘masters” how much can be collected through your pig head by “Pay and Pay” or “Profit and Profit”, left-hand pocket in(give) to right-hand pocket(out – time to return back to my master)scheme – Please “Stop all this nonsense – don’t keep fooling the citizens” if YOU ARE – have a sincere heart whatever in your policies planning – that have proposed, implemented and before legislated – must benefits both the people of singapore and hopefully the ever-changing elected govt truly mandated by its citizens – afterall, what is the basis moral roles of an government first and foremost. By then, hope it is not too late.

Citizens – U have to decide when the day comes – the “CROSS” you place in your ballot slip – ask yourself sincerely – hey, how is my life and family for the past 10 years – and think hard again – and how do I FEEL things going to impact my Life for the next 20 years still having H igh D ebt B urden….

Get Reals! Citizens, we have to Wake Up from our slumber for the past 44 years, hurray!

48) dd

///// by the way hope the lift breaks down everyday….lol….. /////

“Resentment is like drinking poison and then hoping it will kill your enemies. ”
- Nelson Mandela

To fellow SGporeans……

Its no use complaining the PRs are jacking up the prices and that they can leave after they make money..while we are the one left here to pick up the pieces.

Just try to apply for PR in another country. Don’t wait…just do it now. Then we also will have the benefit of leaving this stinkhole when the time is right.

This is the only way to even the playing field.

The message from gahmen is very simple. No qualification don’t have children, No money don’t stay in Singapore. Singapore is a country of elite uncaring faces, take it or leave it. It’s a paradise for the immortals. Singapore has plenty of natural resources – the people. Like in the Matrix movie, we are like the batteries. The suck us of our whole life, our children. So at the rate HoHo is giving out money like Santa Claus, we can’t keep up, they need more and higher capacity batteries.
By making properties more expensive, they force us out indirectly, same trick like in an en-bloc sale. Singapore is on an en-bloc sale.

Hi 53) Playboy_Rick

I’m sure you’re the smart one. In fact, I know several people who has applied PR of another country and are happily claimed that now they are also like PR in Sg, enjoying the best of both world. They have passive income like foreign FD, rental, high dividend stock in Sg which are low in tax and remit $$ out of Sg to the country of their PR, while enjoying free healthcare, free education, social welfare, big and cheap house, car etc.

The only problem is getting a PR in another country is not as easy as Sg.

Hey Guys,

What’s the bottomline of the story? Foreigners love to make Singapore their home. You really believe it???? Can it not be fictitous?????

Do you really believe that weathy Indonesians do not know about our market prices that they are stupid enough to invest in a HDB property? They have been in our property market for the longest time, way before Singaporeans know the meaning of `speculating’.

Please please brothers and sisters. think and think again about the authencity of this story. Please!

40 storey, next to MRT, Queenstown.
Original owners got it for under $300K.
Thats really cheap.
I would have paid $750K for this flat.

a house nowaday would cost an ordinary citizen, I really mean ordinary citizen 30 years to pay. A generation later, an ordinary citizen need 60 years to pay then?

A lot of ppl must be thinking. Wow, i brought at 200k and now the value of my home has gone up to 400k. They are only fooling themselves. Imagine the interest and renovation stuff they need to pay.

And then a generation later, their children need to folk up 600-800k ….do u make money then? Does the value of ur home actually increase? after all, you pay for it.

What happens if ur 1mil house reached the end of 99 years, u think the generous gov will pay u any money? Everything gone to waste money.

My advise is to buy a condo. Yes condo is expensive but at least the value will increase tremendously in 20 years and u earn it back. Then u can go buy a HDB.

Look at all those ppl that do not listen to my advise 20 years and buy a HDB and not a condo. Their comment was 200k for a condo is so siaoz and expensive.

Flashback it 20 years later. The ordinary ppl 20 years ago earns the same as 20 years later. And have to fork 300-400k just to buy a 5 room HDB. Now who is more siaoz?

It better to spend 500k on a condo , guys now, or live to regret for life.

Tan Cheng Hua> Be realistic. Do you EVER think that these idiots will be booted out of the office?

Who is the overall winner? It’s none other than our own government. Why? Cos I heard that it only cost $50k(this was told to me by the people in BCA) to build a 3room HDB flat and the government is trying to paint a very beautiful picture to the citizens by telling us that ALL Singaporeans will enjoy special privileges like 1st timer grant of $30k, hdb loans at a special rate. In fact, they ARE trying to squeeze as much money out from our own pockets. :(

Case in study: Mas Salamat took just 49 seconds to escape a detention making a big joke out of everybody. Guess what? Everybody down the line working at the detention centre was sacked execept our dear Minister of Home Affairs, Mr Wong. Why? Reason’s simple. He’s none other than an uncle to our PM Lee.

All hell WILL break loose when the old man dies. =)

I noticed that from all the posts and the all the other anti-pap posts, there is always the same -2 vote. There is obviously 2 trolls here. Can the admin check them?

Now, HDB BTO Dawson Projects in Queenstown is selling for $532,000 to $664,000 for a five-room flat. The prices of BTO flats are pegged to recent transaction of resale flats in the vicinity.

Both HDB and PR are racing to set new price record in this area.

HDB selling high, Citizen buy high and sell higher, PR buy even higher, HDB peg the price and sell higher than previous.