Quote; ““we are probably one of the worst Third World countries around, with an inefficient and corrupt government, and the whole place is a mess,” he noted”, unquote.

Very well said ! Minister Lui, You are great for once.

patriot

Re: “Just not too long ago, Acting Minister for Information, Communication and the Arts Rear Admiral (NS) Lui Tuck Yew condemned New Media for being adversarial and one-sided.”

adversarial (defn.): First, we implement an entire slew of cruel, unreasonable, and Draconian measures against Singaporeans that we tell them are are based on good Asian values, but we know will result in conflict. Then, when the conflict erupts out into the open, we turn around and call Singaporeans “adverserial”

Note: The above definition is taken from the PAP Dictionary for Inverted Logic.

Re: “Big Brother is monitoring online sentiment…”

Actually, the PAP government has been monitoring online sentiment from the word “go”; no self-respecting control freak would have passed up on such an opportunity.

Re: “…Big Brother does not want to involve you in policymaking unless you are either competent or you may make him lose power.”

But when they involve you in policymaking by ‘monitoring your sentiment’ online either based on your competence or your being a threat to their stranglehold on power, they will stiil not pay you a cent for it. (They, on the other hand pay themselves astronomical sums after being ELECTED to MAKE POLICY, but don’t because they are just stealing ideas fron online sources.

That’s why it is my policy NOT to offer solutions online EXCEPT when it is to the detriment of the PAP to copy those solutions, such as in the case of say abolishing the GRC etc.

“we are probably one of the worst Third World countries around, with an inefficient and corrupt government, and the whole place is a mess,”

Lui is a joke.

Most online criticisms revolve around the income gap, spiralling costs of living, the deluge of foreigners, the ministers’ paychecks and political repression in Singapore. Instead of addressing them, he tries to misrepresent our positions. I believe it’s called a Straw man fallacy?

“All is not lost

However, all is not lost. An alternative feedback mechanism exists. Time to time, each Ministry releases draft bills for public feedback.”

I strongly disagree with this. Do you think that the various ministries will take public feedback seriously? The ministries follow the directives laid out by the ministers and consists of obsequious sycophants. Sucking up to your superior by agreeing to his harebrained ideas will get you plus points and maybe a promotion. Disagreeing with him will get you a poor work performance appraisal. It’s not about what you want but rather what the government wants.

That is the price we pay for giving them a majority in parliament.

Like that better. F them in the face.

new media is adversary? it is probably the “fairest” media of all….
mass access, equal opportunity, non-discriminatory, low social divide in terms of ability to use, and definitely reflect the view of its user.

alternatively, with all the skills, ability and finance we can access to, build a great firewall :-) I am sure we can do better than china.

[...] Mainstream vs X-Stream Media – flaneurose: The increasing irrelevance of mainstream media in Singapore – TOC: Big brother is watching New Media [...]

Good Morning.

How is the government of Singapore going to successfully monitor cyberspace? How is that even possible? This is a bit like talking about snakes in Norway – it cannot possibly make sense as the thing doesnt exist!

The PRC has tried it with legions of state funded cyber operatives – even they are having a very hard time plugging up the holes in great chinese firewall, despite their limitless human and financial resources.

Are you are telling me Singapore wants to replicate their failure on a similar byzantine scale?

I think, its time for someone at cabinet level to take out a A4 piece of paper, draw a plus and minus column and work this crackbrain idea through very carefully – we are all already living in very challenging times – we should not waste money chasing after unicorns and leperchauns, that is not how intelligent people go about using state resources to secure a competitive advantage – they dont plough the sea – intelligent people pick and choose their battles – they never reinforce their failure.

Do these decision makers even have any idea how big a geography the internet is or how many ways there is to actually hide? You have to be kidding me…right?

SD

its not difficult to monitor online political chatter in singapore. singapore may be #1 in many things but online political discourse is NOT one of them. just follow a few websites is enough to capture 60-70% of political chat online – TOC, Temasek Review, Singapore Daily, Sammyboy forum, Hardwarezone forum. Just follow this 5 you can catch more than 50% of what’s out there.

Over the last few decades, government requests for feedback look like cosmetics to serve only one purpose – i.e. to allay discontent from those who complain of government not listening to the citizens. The fact is that many policy papers have always been discussed and debated within closed doors first and the decision to carry on with whatever they wanted has already been made, and thereafter, only thereafter, feedback is asked. Therefore, whatever feedback is of very little use, if not totally useless.

It has become quite obvious that the power of the day has become over-confident and conceited, even to the extent of saying “I know what is best for the country and for you ….. so shut the fxxxk up!” And to reinforce upon that, “You have voted us in, therefore we have your mandate, so we decide what is good for you …” or words to that effect.

A political party in power for too long has the high probability of blinding itself because of the blind spot (collective “don’t rock the boat” syndrome, or group think) that it has created for itself over long periods of in-breeding, self praises, self-enrichment, self-delusion, and the ease with which it could execute its own agenda with almost total absence of any obstacles within an environment where the masses are weak, powerless and lack of awareness, caused mainly by the incessant and persistent propaganda being fed through the mass media and the indoctrination done through institutions such as the National Service, Civil Defence Force, Police Conscripts, as well as subtle messages via national education programmes promulgated through the MOE to all schools and tertiary institutions.

For the government or ANYONE for that matter to prosper online; they need to first go BEYOND the superficial understanding that the internet has a strategic value. That is the easy part. Even a 5 year old kid can tell you that!

This hardly requires an elaboration: the romans ruled half the world bc they could go BEYOND pax romanus and could build practical things like weather proof roads; the English did the same; not because of their efficient civil service and trading houses but because they could go BEYOND these hyferlutin things to do something as mundanely practical as smelt steel to mass produce battleships and the US secured their primacy in space not because of their industrial might; or even their inventiveness but because they could somehow go BEYOND themselves to kidnap and even accomodate Nazi rocket scientist.

ALL these people had no illusions; they are what we call in the brotherhood – very “serious men”; they rolled up their sleeves and got their hands dirty in the way a potter learns how to be comfortable with managing something as capricious as clay; this we see in the online citizen and in other successful sites; she has leanrt how to manage both diversity and differences of opinion to good effect. They have set aside their fears along with their affectations.

But what has the government done so far? What is their attitude? They are like white laced virgins looking on our world from their perfumed balconies; from time to time; some of these fair maidens will turn to each other and exclaim; “it is dangerous down there; up here at least we are above it all…blah, blah, blah” and you are telling me, people will this sort of mentality can somehow prosper online?

Good Luck lah

SD

“This is a bit like talking about snakes in Norway – it cannot possibly make sense as the thing doesnt exist!”

well described.

some are trying to create the conditions to move up (progressively) on one hand and yet in practice they are actually moving down (behaving regressively) on the other hand.

pappies, if you are reading this right now, i want all of you to know that PAP sucks and all of you are going to burn in hell

THE LAND CALLS OUT FOR REVENGE, AN OUNCE OF PENANCE FOR AN OUNCE OF SIN

Surveillance?

there was an article on Digital Life that tells people how to setup a PERMANENT IP Address on your broadband connection.

Does this in anyway help to identify you using static IP?

I mean, IF all readers are tracked , then that must be a lot of tracking to do since the viewership has skyrocketed and rising?

tough job to be tracking so many citizens, if that is really the case.

If the PAP gov wants others to respect them, and really for the good of Singapore, elections must be fair and not about money politics. We really need a voice in Parlimentary to question all the half yearly review on ERP, Road Tax, Conservation TAX, GST, Electricity, Water, Housing etc

Why is a rich country like singapore wants so much tax??? You tax us but give to ur high pay people to speculate in shares, speculate in houses, because they r so rich, they can buy this and sell in 3 months, some even instantly. The richer can richer and the poor, poorer.

Is that the Singapore we all want? Or is that the Singapore, that only the Rich wants?

Let us vote, damn it! I am sure to vote against you. Let me see how many votes you really get. Unbelievable corrupted government.

(11) singaporedaddy /// But what has the govt done so far? What is their attitude? They are like white laced virgins looking on our world from their perfumed balconies; from time to time, some of these fair maidens will turn to each other and exclaim; “it’ is dangerous down there; up here at least we are above it all…. blah, blah, blah” and you are telling me, people with this sort of mentality can somehow prosper online ///

What an excellent analogy!!

With the amount of flak the PAPies are getting (especially,recently, from amnesty international and from that famous lawyer,Amsterdam, and with SDP’s Dr Chee going for the jugular, coupled with the uproar from the populace) they must be really feeling the heat, and with their reputation, all over the world, in tatters, a tipping-point should be coming for them soon, and when this happens, lets hope the following takes place:-
1) some of the PAPies dying from shame
2) some defections (if not mass-defections) from the ranks of the PAPies to the opposition.

Track my IP lah. Do what you can. Singaporeans have had enough!

of course, it can be tracked and no doubt on that. however, it gives the strong impression that it is a pointless wasteful exercise which has a good possibility of instilling the fear factor & the uneasy feeling that you may be watched.

we are not talking about reallllllllll crimeeeeeeeeee being committed, are we ?????.

“Big brother is watching New Media”

Let us change the tide. During election, Let the “New Media watch the Big Brother” instead. Take real-time video using camera phone and stream the pathetic attendance of PAP election Rally into UStream, new video media service and show the world how pathetic and laughable is the people’s support for PAP.
Put Sitoh’s shark-fin carrot into Youtube. Show how Lim Sweet Say sing “upturn the downturn” song in election. Show how old fart spout his usual highfalutin nonsense again.

Psychological warfare does not work on the brotherhood. Did you not read 1984 ny George Orwell, when Winston, the main protagonist muttered to himself “The brotherhood…..is a single indestructibe idea that will live on in the minds of free man till the end of time…” We have already tried it stamp them out. Besides how do you kill men who dont rely on govt patronage to earn a living? They all have their own business. All their customers are in either the US or EU. They can all operate in any part of the world. As I said, they are free men.

How do you control free men? You cannot. Get use to it.

*Sigh* This is animal farm all over again.

A lot of Singaporeans must be on drugs to produce this one sided effect,I guess it could be due to the long term effects that recycyled water effect has on them or maybe it could be the internet that is posioning these peoples minds as they use to have a one sided MSM that only produces the “best news” for Singaporeans., and Singaporens inturn find it hard to to digest and stomach…

They still think we are in the 60’s and old ways will work in todays dynamic society. Dinosaurs that are living in the future with no knowledge of the evolving landscape….. no matter how hard you try to hold on to your old and stubborn ways… the cracks are starting to show….

“Big Brother is monitoring online sentiment and Big Brother does not want to involve you in policymaking unless you are either competent or you may make him lose power.”

Truth will stand the test of time. It is not a crime to speak your mind unless your views and reasoning are based on fabrication and purely to disagree for the sake of disagreement regardless of the facts. We are all living in this technologically advanced 21st century global village, you can blanket the entire Singapore but you cannot stop the world who believes in freedom of speech and expression.

Let’s not kid ourselves and speculate unnecessary fear amongst us. If one has not done anything unlawful, what is there to fear even “IF” you are being monitored?Let the voting do the talking if any changes are to happen at the very top “that hopefully benefit the general public as a whole”. However, do not expect any prudent policies change to satisfy 100% of the public, this can never happen not even in the world’s most democractic countries that has far laxed rules than tiny Singapore.

Sincerely

Observer (SG-HK)

Yes: BlindMan: your quote is right! Recycle Water (New Water) really make Young & Old Singaporean sick, I went to my Family Doctor complain about my tiredness
Hand & Leg got numb every morning when U just awake, can’t concentrate in my study. Memory alway gone bad. Blur—Blur , My Doctor reply not U’re the only one. Many Singaporean have this symton. In Science said : once the molecule is break it become radio active water (Battery Water). For long term effect Singaporean will go Dinosaurs

When Liu say the new media is one-sided, he and his buddies should look at themselves to find whether they are also one-sided in whatever they talk and sprout in the mainstream media. If the new media is a very free media, it is not control by anybody, so many people who communicate in new media are really relating from their hearts, mind and souls. If its one-sided, it just simply means that more people are unhappy with the governments’ policies compare to those who agree with governments’ policies.
If government always want to hear the good things than I am afraid they are going down the slippery road of missing the big target one day.

//Big Brother is monitoring online sentiment and Big Brother does not want to involve you in policymaking unless you are either competent or you may make him lose power.//

Actually, there is an irony in the whole issue, as captured in Donaldson’s last sentence.

On one hand, we are still in the fear big brother mentality. Yes, the government is watching us and that makes us afraid. So we don’t want Big Brother government to come online and encroached into our space.

On the other hand, we want the government to take New Media seriously. That will mean listening and engaging people online, being responsive to citizen’s questions and queries.

The govt becomes Big Brother if it comes online to read ‘online sentiment’ but it is Non-Responsive, Stuck in Ivory Tower if it doesn’t. Being “Big Brother” is another negative way of saying “listening to ground sentiment”. So my main point is you can’t have one and reject the other, because they are the same thing.

—–

I will disagree with the author reading on the current state of interactions- that the govt sets the agenda for online conversations between both parties.

The fact that the govt is monitoring sites means citizens are speaking their mind, sets the topic for discussion and the govt listens (albeit in secret). So if this whole secret monitoring thing is working well, HDB will have gotten the message that citizens (on TOC) are complaining abt high flat prices and this will induce the govt the react to it.

Nevertheless, this arrangement can still improve. What I argued is that contrary to people think, there is still passive listening. But should we be satisfied with passive listening? Personally, i prefer the govt to come online and engage citizens more. Like Donaldson, I think we should still move towards citizen-govt interaction. But it will not happen if we are so scared of the govt coming online.

26) RW on November 15th, 2009 3.11 am

I will disagree with the author reading on the current state of interactions- that the govt sets the agenda for online conversations between both parties.

Actually, I think the author means the government sets the agenda for online conversations at their own websites. User-driven content at REACH and other government-related websites don’t set the agenda.

I find it quite interesting that the author points out that there is political will in engaging New Media at the at the party-political level, but negligible political will when it comes to policymaking on issues such as healthcare and public housing. It is indeed selective. PAP’s pragmatism means they will focus on the lowest hanging fruit first.

If you all really want to understand the gist of what Donaldson is trying to convey in his essay it can be compressed into ONE question: what is the most effective way for the govt to make progress online? Is it through relentless snooping and rummaging through your inbox? Will that inspire fear forcing many here to self regulate? Possibly, but you have to be VERY careful here; as people are not so different from roaches; the more you spray them; some will undoubtedly cower and die; but what abt those that will eventually develop immunity? Will those conditions harden them making them more recalcitrant in the long run till all hopes of diplomacy is all but useless?

If monitoring is such an effective strategy; why isn’t the Berlin wall still standing today and why isnt half the world still ruled by the Soviet Union? So you need to be sensible about these things.

If you want to get ahead in the internet; IMHO nothing beats the straight forward approach as its the shortest distance between A and B; for instance if we see someone digging a big hole online; we will just ask them, “what are you doing?” and in that impromptu manner; we get to know a whole lot of things about them along with understanding their social make up, history, goals, roles, philosophy, values etc. This is basic common sense. You dont need to be 007.

Why would anyone in their right frame of mind sweat the easy peasy stuff – when all they need to do is sit down for a simple conversation?

I dont understand.

SD

Indeed the internet has certainly brought a very new and exciting ways of bringing people together, but always remember human relationships is as old as the hills.

Dont believe me? Go and ask yourself what has really changed in the latter?

I do however concede, it is not always possible to see eye all the time- there are times when differences simply cannot be reconciled. There are also times when divisions run so deep and broad, they offer no way for peaceful resolution. And at times I am the first to admit detente or war may even hold out the promise of settling our differences on the cheap.

I dont want to sound hypocritical or even come across as naive; even as I speak about all these lofty ideals; anyone armed with a rudimentary knowledge of gaming history will know only too well, we the brotherhood have fought over 300 or so wars; stretching from the Malabar front to the Andullisian plains against all manner and form of adversaries in the known universe (many of you have even fought along side us); over territory, rights, minerals etc. Granted these may not be real wars; they may even be no more than sandbox politics, but nonetheless they embody the full gamut of odium, hatred and horror that is only too real.

On reflection, we may be the least qualified people to speak on this subject. I have to be perfectly honest with all of you; as we dont have a very good track record as peacemakers.

There are even times when I have privately asked; whether it is possible for us to genuinely seek peace; when war is only thing we seem to know since the beginning of time. This I have asked myself many a time in private.

So perhaps what the government may be trying to do is right after all – they seem to be taking small steps; maybe that is the right way, then again maybe not – I really dont know. I dont.

SD

fyi Readers, TR website has been down since at least yesterday.
I wonder why it keeps going down while TOC remains up.

I like TR but also like TOC. How?

[...] Anonymous Singaporean Thought #4 By SD, in response to Big brother is watching New Media [...]

Online surveilance is BS. If a citizen is not going to vote PAP … there nothing in this world they can do about it.

I guess it’s all about scaring the youths.

Don’t worry big brother, our job as citizens are to teach our children that the Men in White are beholden to the electorate. Period.

Please feedback this to your masters. We are voting for change. :)