Singapore is the main reason why I joined alternative politics. I am pretty demoralised by what I see on the ground.

“I think many youths joined YPAP because (a) they don’t know what YPAP is like (e.g. Nominated MP Calvin Cheng); (b) they think they will protected if they make negative remarks about the PAP; (c) they honestly believe they can reform PAP from the inside; and (4) they just want to network.” : ALEX.

I am still not convince Mr Alex.

Firstly, the reasons you gave on why many youths are joining YPAP has two connotations for me. One, you are implying that the youths of Singapore are jumping into such membership. Nope, it does not cut with me. Secondly, you failed to provide the first and foremost reason why some would want to join the YPAP – the selfish and self-centered reason, that ensures one’s personal advancement.

It is quite baffling to try and understand the reasons you provided: like “…they don’t know what YPAP is like…” – come on, if they don’t know what it’s like, it simply means they are not interested. So, if they are suddenly interested, then there must be motive.

Next, you are telling us that these youths are so stupid to think they can be protected by membership. If this is their reason, and if I am the one determining membership applications, their will be the first I would throw out – for they have shown themselves stupid.

I do agree that yes, some may want to genuinely bring about reform from within and I will give you the space here for such reason.

Your last point however, points to the true reason, which you dare not say out loud. They want to network for what? You know the answer is a selfish and self-serving one.

“The only encounter I ever had with a PAP MP was receiving an award from Finance Minister…” : ALEX.

Ha! Ha! Ha! Most do not even get to see their MPs throughout their years in service.

You did not answer question number 4.

No comments on 5?

Women serving NS? Are you deflecting the call from Singaporeans for new citizens to serve NS by reviving an old call? How you blur the line in the course of your argument by switching from women serving NS to foreigners abandoning Singapore in time of crisis. Who are these foreigners?

I also have trouble balancing the last two points; joining a party to reinforce one’s own values; and then to put Singapore first above these values? Gee! Are you for real Alex?

Alex Tan may have had no comment to this – and I think he was wise to say so because he is not from a minority race – but I would like to answer this question:

Re: “Do GE candidates of minority races need affirmative action to be elected?”

The crude answer is “yes” for the simple reason that every SMC/GRC has a Chinese majority, and there are lingering fears (that may never go away) that minority race candidates are not viewed in the same esteem as Chinese ones.

JB Jeyaratnam is often cited as as an example – yes, Singaporeans have only this ONE example to cite which should be telling enough – of a (sometimes) successful minority race candidate at GEs. But JB Jeyaratnam towers over all Singaporeans no matter what their race may be and Singapore is unlikely to see the likes of him for a long time yet. (Incidentally, his minority race status is also what made him vulnerable to all that abuse by the Chinese supremacist Lee Kuan Yew not only at the height of the latter’s Confucianist binge but even beyond. )

This actually proves something that minorities of all stripes know intuitively: that you have to be much better than every single person in the majoriy group to even be treated as an equal to any one of them, and JB Jeyaratnam definitely did not even get that.

Leaving JB Jeyaratnam aside, I turn to other examples: how high are Gandhi Ambalam’s and Jufrie Mahmood’s – two men who have been in opposition politics for a long time – chances of getting elected, and is race a factor?

(Let’s remember that all PAP candidates, minority race ones included, get elected based on the party name alone; we should compare opposition apples to other opposition apples.)

Still, I feel uncomfortable with the use of “affirmative action” to describe provisions that may need to be made to ensure that minority race representation is as assured an outcome at any one GE as majority race representation is; surely “majority” does not mean “exclusive” and assured representation is the only way that ALL – or at least the maximum number of – Singaporeans will be represented in a public institution that sets out to exactly that.

And in case anyone is wondering that this means I support the GRC system as well with its claim to be a provison that ensures minority race representation, the answer is a flat “no”: I know of one other way that the same goal be achieved without the GRC system.

In India for example, 30% of the seats can only be contested by women ensuring that at least 30% of Parliament consists of women. (Of course, if you are Gandhi woman, you can contest a man and still win.) Recently, in the province of BC, Canada, 10% of the seats were similarly reserved for contest by LGBT candadates as well as for the disabled – I don’t know if there is a further breakdown of that figure.

The same can be done in Singapore with Indians and Malays; we CAN have our cake and eat it too.

Re: “I think many youths joined YPAP because … they honestly believe they can reform PAP from the inside…”

That’s probably what Vivian Balakhrisnan thought as well. But we are still waiting for that one member of the once-hyped Magnificent Seven to utter the first brilliant thing.

Scratch that.

We are still waiting for him to say something that actually makes sense; brilliant might to be too taxing for him to manage.

But Alex Tan is definitely right about one thing:

Re: “I think many youths joined YPAP because … they think they will protected if they make negative remarks about the PAP…”

That’s right Alex, the PAP is nothing if not for its double standards.

I like his views about NS.

I like this chap.Straight to the point and for a 22 year old is wise beyond his age.I know Singaporeans who are in their 30s to 60s who have a fraction of his courage, so Alex I salute you for taking a very diffferent path.It takes like 500 YPAP members to handle you.One man army.

Singapore could do better with more Alexs’.Or else soon we will have a PRC Prime Minister or become a SAR if the PAP keeps flooding Singapore with its’ foreign pets.I rather have an opposition PM then a cabinet of PRC,Indian,Burmese,European and Filipino ministers.

Give me a Singaporean Malay PM anytime.This is Singapore not some capital of ASEAN or outpost of China.We are masters of our own destiny and not slaves to the PAP.The government serves us.We elect you to serve us.PAP should SERVE us.

Singapore must be led by sons and daughters of the soil.Alex is doing a good service for the ’sandwiched class’.He is ACTING and not just AWARE like some people.

The chap comes from a humble background and this is the political hotbed where leaders of tomorrow emerge.Given time and opportunities, this guy could be doing a lot of good in the long run.He is a shining example to the voiceless.

I agree with his reasons for youths joining YPAP.The NMP Model guy is a very good example.Singaporen Youth are mostly apathetic and are opportunists.They see 2nd tier talent in the PAP and know that the PAP is seriously has a dearth in talent.They join the YPAP and this ‘Network’.

Look at the recent NUS debacle where they stage managed and only invite PAP members.Even the committees of the political associations are PAP infested. This Alex guy is a breath of fresh air.A welcome relief.An economic recovery package in terms of good human capital.

I just had a little look at their facebook and this Alex guy is doing a fantastic job of taking the game into their court.And I am entirely not convinced by the YPAP and also the responses on their YPAP website and P65 blogs.If one Alex can make them wake up,imagine a platoon.

No wonder the PM cannot handle more than 2 Opposition MPs.I say we send in more Alexs’ and also more candidates in the elections.I seriously believe that half the seats need to be won in order for the PAP to implement a major shakeup.The complacency is shocking.

I agree that the youth wing members of all political parties will always put Singapore first before their own political party.

I only notice 1 thing:

Coming May 2010 General Election. hohoho….

[...] Discourse – Singaporean Skeptic: I love the Straits Times Forum! – TOC: Meet the Protagonist of the YPAP Facebook Forum War – Singabloodypore: Freedom for [...]

Hi Alex Tan

Don’t be intimidated. You have my support and many uncles and aunties will support you as well.

What we want is not robotic allegiance but independent and logical thinking, besides compassion. Clearly, these qualities are lacking in today’s youth.

Attaboy Alex. You ave enough spirit and thinking power to serve you well. In time, maturity and more indepth knowledge will make you worthy of being a genuine people’s representative. You will have my vote then.

gemami,

“Secondly, you failed to provide the first and foremost reason why some would want to join the YPAP – the selfish and self-centered reason, that ensures one’s personal advancement.”

In fact, this probably fall under network. People built network to advance opportunity for self, whether for selfish reason or not.

“One, you are implying that the youths of Singapore are jumping into such membership. Nope, it does not cut with me.”

The youths do join out of curiosity and thrill of it. Uniquely Singaporeans because some even join the long queue in MacDonald to buy Hello Kitty just for the thrill and excitement of it, and beside, owning a piece of Kitty. I know because my nephew is one of them queuing for Kitty.

One can join the free membership and yet do nothing.

Just in case anyone is wondering, Alex Tan is not a PAP or YPAP member.

Alex Zhixiang Tan

You are just one of the best. Straight from the heart, no pretense at all.

You put a lot of people to shame anytime.

Please take care.

6) Straight Talker on November 3rd, 2009 10.11 am

I agree with his reasons for youths joining YPAP.The NMP Model guy is a very good example.Singaporen Youth are mostly apathetic and are opportunists.They see 2nd tier talent in the PAP and know that the PAP is seriously has a dearth in talent.They join the YPAP and this ‘Network’.

I don’t think Nominated MP Calvin Cheng is an apathetic youth. The fact that he was active in Red Cross and that he currently holds a public office demonstrate he is actually concerned about political, social and economic development in Singapore.

Dear fellow Netizens,

Do not be fooled. Backtrack a little and bring yourself back a few months ago. What were the news coming out from the YPAP online platform? To cut to the chase – it is dead and buried – a forlorn cemetery.

Why is there this sudden heightened interest on something that has been pronounced dead? Some are already taken in by this Alex guy – well, maybe they are right about him – but I would call for caution. We know what the PAP is capable of.

Personally, I am still not convince that this Alex guy is a hero vigilante. I see no signs that tell me that he is not part of the game that is happening over at the YPAP forum.

It all adds up. It has to.

The YPAP has to stay alive and relevant – to the PAP. I do not want to get personal with this but I cannot help but think that all this is just a ploy – a staged play, acted out to convince and sell – convince Singaporeans that the YPAP online portal is serious about engaging them; and then to sell them the idea that the PAP is the best they’ve got.

Election wind is already blowing.

I saw the reply by that guy Fong…that singapore should look ahead instead of at the past and will singapore be better managed by parties with no track record….

what crap…i wonder if that person has work in the real corporate world before? What he is saying is the opposite of what people are doing, people are looking at the past, the so called “PAP achievement” instead of thinking of future implication.

it is precisely why some companies can go bankrupt, been managed by CEOs with great track record. Is google created by people with track record? No, success is created by people who look ahead….not those who look in the past thinking it is the future.

“You’ll grow old if you step back. You’ll die if you are afraid.”

15) gemami on November 3rd, 2009 1.01 pm,

Frankly, I am not one for future agendas and slippery slopes. I take thing as they are, and view them as they are. I couldn’t care less whether Alex is part of some larger conspiracy. Why not just read the points that have been brought up and see if those make sense?

Hi lobo76,

Thanks for the advice. I will give it a try.

I hope that young Alex can keep it up.

They have the the power. They have the machinery. They recently went to China to learn new tricks from the Communist Party.

I just hope Alex won’t end up another Vivian Balakrishnan.

Oh, I like the term of “re service”. It’s better than “reservist” as our service never end until we are 40, though the PM would not like to be our platoon commander if we are over 30.

feedmetothefish

Hi Donaldson.

Please don’t make me have a go at this NMP Calvin Cheng chap.This guy is an opportunist.He resigned from YPAP ONLY when Today’s Balji wrote a scathing article on his partisanship after he was nominated.Yes, AFTER he was nominated.He did not have the decency to resign from YPAP when he sent in his application.

That same evening, he called YPAP Chairman Teo Ser Luck.And apparently, he did not even have a membership card.Please ask YPAP members who have met him in Teck Ghee Branch.

And why volunteer at MPS at Teck Ghee? Oh yeah,the PM is there.He comes across as rather cavalier and whimsical.Even an aspiring Elected President must resign from any political party which he is a member of before submitting his candidacy for consideration.

He is a weasel.Sneaky,untrustworthy and insincere.Shouldn’t there be a red flag when he was being interviewed by the Select Committee?

He was a YPAP member who had intentions on becoming an NMP.If he did not get his ‘public office’ post, he would probably still be a YPAP member hoping to be parachuted into public service as a MP.

Have you read his replies to the press?His ‘curiosity’?This guy gets his mates to author Wikipedia posts about himself.Such Ego.

Give me Siew Kum Hong anytime.We don’t need PAP or ex PAP members as NMPs.Its politicizing the already undemocratic NMP scheme.Its like the LUP.Appointed Grassroots NMP/Adviser Calvin Cheng.

Yes, I am incorrect to say that he is apathetic but he is certainly is definitely an OPPORTUNIST.

Yes elections are nearing. The MIW are putting on the charm offensive. The will soon be throwing money as us. This is the same old procedure before every elections. They will also utter a few threats. The tried and tested carrot and stick routine.

This time the electorate are more sophisticated and know what they are up to. We the people of Singapore will not be fooled this time. We will vote for Change. Every single one of us except the elites and YPAP. The MIW will exists only in our worst nightmares.

Whatever they give you before the elections, they will take it back 10 times over after the elections. GST will be raised to 16% after the elections if they win.

15) gemami on November 3rd, 2009 1.01 pm
“Personally, I am still not convince that this Alex guy is a hero vigilante. I see no signs that tell me that he is not part of the game that is happening over at the YPAP forum.”

There is nothing to lose right.

If you are right and if one wants to slap his own face, all the better as it further gives others all the reasons (rightly or wrongly ?) why his face ought to be slapped.

What positively could have come out with this useless charade ? We sure would like to learn from you something new which may have possibly escaped our thought process.

Don’t wait for the bribes to be dangled infront of you. Make your stand now and hold true to your beliefs.

In order to be a strong nation, we have to believe in ourselves. We have to believe that as Singaporeans, we have the power to change our destiny. If some old fart and a law minister and their high falutin ideas that Singapore is not a nation of country yet, tell them that we don’t need these leaders who demoralise and desecrate the ideals of our country. Words coming from former laywers. We don’t need these people anymore.

We know that our leaders of this country are surviving on flamboyant talk and parade but lack real leadership in the face of real crisis. There are so many to list.

HDB, GIC, TH, TC, our education policy, housing policy, CPF policy etc And they can tell us point blank that they won’t reveal information.

..i honestly want to see changes.

The people migranting out of Singapore is increasing, this is PAPs problem.

I would love to see people like Chiam See Tong, Low Thia Kiang and Dr Chee in my constituency. Nevermind if we are poor, because these opposition members make you feel more Singaporean and make you stayers of this country.

I WILL STAY AND VOTE FOR CHANGE. I’m sorry PAP, your time is running out.

15) gemami on November 3rd, 2009 1.01 pm
“Personally, I am still not convince that this Alex guy is a hero vigilante. I see no signs that tell me that he is not part of the game that is happening over at the YPAP forum.”

YPAP used to be very quiet correct. i join the facebook group when there are barely 50 members and has since been giving them unwanted attention by the public.

everyone can see for themselves how these PAP members defend their master’s policies with warped theories. my presence there merely expose their ugly nature. do you think anyone would still be interested in joining the PAP after reading so much negativities about their party?

besides, if i am indeed part of a greater consipracy, i wouldn’t be chanting “vote for Change, vote the PAP out” in almost every posts. but of course, given PAP’s shrewdness, you have grounds to doubt.

however i think it will be wiser of you to judge me by the ideas i projected, and not for who i am: like what the PAP members there did.

im no hero, just a Singaporean giving his last shot at the next General Election.
if PAP win more than 50% by next GE, i hereby declare i will migrate.

Hi All:

some netizens are hoping and wishing that there will be ‘uprising’ within PAP itself and or there will be some PAP Parliamentarians who are pricked by conscience, re-awaken and commit themselves to look after the wellbeings of the people. Such wishes and calls are now more commonly made in Cyberspace and in TOC itself, we do read them.

Though i find it hard to agree with such wishes because i am not convinced that people who initiate and participate in ‘mutiny’ or work against their masters could be trustworthy and faithful, i nonetheless, am willing to go along with the said hopes and wishes that some people are harbouring, quite a desperate and ‘can’t help it’ situation, i must say.

Well, we had NMP Viswa who dropped a bombshell for showing empathy with the people and naturally many sceptics came in to doubt his sincerity. Alex Tan aka Utopia 8787 caught my attention when he blogged about the cost of H1N1 treatments and incidents and costs related to the illness, i read some of his blogs at his site and found him consistent in his ideology and political views. Alex has came in here and declared that he is not afiliated to any political party, i am very prepared to believe him.

May i say here that Singaporeans are truly in a dilemma with regard finding ways to deal with the Regime, most believe straight forward to oppose it whilst some think that working from inside seems to be the only course left. Though i prefer the straight forward measure, i am also open to alternative routes, as such, if there are indeed people resorting to the inside out method, i would be happy to wish them success and will sincerely appreciate their efforts.

Shall i say that blind trust and loyalty are obviously undesirable, however, we must allow those who recover their conscience and those that use unconventional methods to work for the people the chance to prove their sincerities. Yes be sceptical of them and test them, make them stronger and more resolute in the process and also to determine their integrities.

All that we wish now is that Singapore be free from despotic rule and that we will not be exploited and bullied by our own leaders.
The Present Leadership has shown that it has more concerns for their power, wealth and status and the citizens are being exploited and used to fulfill its’ agenda. So, let us work collectively to save ourselves from abuses, manipulations and exploitations.

May we have some success in the Coming Election !!!

patriot

Kudos to Alex.

Whatever action that will expose the PAP for the self-serving party that it really is, is definitely good.

Hope that enough people will wake up to see the truth and hope this will translate into something positive in the ballot box in the coming GE.

For far too long have we been suppressed politically and intellectually and this is not good for our country.

Hi Alex

I am thoroughly impressed by you. At 21, I was ignorant of life let alone politics, was gullible and propaganda worked like a,b,c on me. I am much older now and modestly think that I am wiser and can see through tricks. I find lots of substance & wisdom in your replies.

May be you have the ‘advantage’ of first hand experience of hardship. Many esp those in YPAP I suspect led the opposite life you had, everything was and is probably served up in silver platter for them. Even those in high ministerial places now continue to live in ivory towers refusing to come down to earth to be with the common man even for one day in their lives. I am sure intelligence plays a major part in your thoughts too, not just background. Scoring in exams (Spore style) is not a measure of intelligence, the ability to scrutinise facts is. You have convinced me with the latter.

Your mum should be very proud of herself for the making of a fine, young man. I have faith that your heart is in the right place and this will lead you to contentment, not money.

Good afternoon all,

“Personally, I am still not convince that this Alex guy is a hero vigilante. I see no signs that tell me that he is not part of the game that is happening over at the YPAP forum.It all adds up. It has to. ”

It takes someone with remarkable intelligence and an oblique eye to see the world of politics in such prosaic terms.

What Gemami maybe trying to convey here is simply this: how do you convince the vast majority of humans that change is really possible in a sclerotic organization that has a dead hand on preserving the status quo ante at every cost and opportunity?

Simple. Concoct a sugary fairytale that real change can somehow emerge from the folds of the old. To put in layman’s terms: new wine can somehow magically flow out from old wine. Once that idea has been successfully sold; then of course; the demand for real change ceases completely; thereby preserving the status quo ante.

There is only one problem with that game – it happens to be an old dusty game like snake & ladders, we all know there is no mystery to it – just as we all know for ANY game to truly succeed and engage the thinking crowd; mystery must always be furiously at work. Real or imagined that is.

SD

“Simple. Concoct a sugary fairytale that real change can somehow emerge from the folds of the old.”

why waste time. just throw out your old television which may give you intermittent problems even after repairs – and get a brand new LCD for a steal.

Alex, your comment on NS hit the issue right on the head–bull’s eye.
Probably about 85% of male true blue share your sentiments.
The other 15%?
The rest are the beholden, whether through scholarship or other connections.
BTW–just found out recently that we are neither a nation nor a country–just a city for the economic mercenaries to harvest in during good times.
What is there to defend again?.

Hi gemami…

I understand where its coming from, however, it seems this guy is not on either side, but some of his points were good.
Truthfully giving a breakdown on why people join the YPAP was also fair.

He made his point, but, I see that you have seen many like him do the talk and can’t walk the walk.

Well, only time can tell us that. I am sure there are some good people in PAP, sadly without much powers.Personally, I like Halimah, she speaks and tweaks and not for a moment knowing how much power as a Malay woman she wields.

Smart! Gone into Facebook to attract so much attention. Why not challenge the MPs publicly? Why choose to go online? MPs are everywhere every weekend. Go to every dialogue session and whack, like how you whack at the YPAP Network. You become more popular like that, faster also. More people will hear you too.

“Personally, I am still not convince that this Alex guy is a hero vigilante. I see no signs that tell me that he is not part of the game that is happening over at the YPAP forum.It all adds up. It has to. ”

Isn’t anyone of us here online part of the game too ? We know the voice here may or may not matter to the sclerotic PAP organization, but at least we try, even if it mean to just release our angst and fart.

Isn’t any opp party part of the game too in the pawn game by the PAP where election and boundary is rigged and engineered to the advantage of PAP ?

So why we still play the game ? We play as long as if there is a glimpse of hope, better than nothing.

everybody please focus whats really at stake: our future.

elections is coming real soon given the amount of exposure SM Goh is getting(i always believe he is still in PAP for elections only, given Singaporeans rather-better imprssion of him over the rest).

MPs and millionaire minister who have blundered are exceptionally quiet these days. we must make sure their flops and responses be re-surface to the public, in case they get too excited over some carrots.

i hope theonlinecitizen.com will make a sticky note of what happened since GE ‘06 and bloggers to post blog entries with reference to this sticky note. lets focus and work out Creative and Unpredictable ways to beat the PAP.

vote for Change, vote the PAP out.

@ 24) alex tan

“if PAP win more than 50% by next GE, i hereby declare i will migrate.”

I think you should start to apply now, it takes years to get an Immigration Visa!

alex,

whilst i agree that females should serve..you run the danger of being a sexist….if females do eventually serve NS..
they can do a host of things and that means they can and should be soldiers as well…

36) gemami on Your comment is awaiting moderation. November 4th, 2009 7.48 am

Hi Alex,

As we wait for Mr Moderator to publish my post, may I add that you call at post @ 33) alex tan on November 4th, 2009 2.37 am, sounds like an entrapment. Sure, let TOC carry all the blunders and flops of the PAP. Yah, election is coming.

Why the need for TOC to do this? They are already all over TOC in case you haven’t realised. Are you asking for a summary, so that the YPAPs can continue to hone their rebuttal skills?

I’m not sure Alex, where you are coming from and where you are heading with this.

Guys, please stop haranguing female Singaporeans.

There is no question that women are of equal worth, worthy of full rights. Women are capable of most of the same things that men are; and conversely men too are capable of most things that women are.

But there are limits, mostly imposed by physical limitations (both ways) and perhaps by hardwiring though neither should be interpreted as absolutes.

Women’s musculature is different from a man’s and asking that they serve in a combat role – especially if they neither asked for it nor can actually perform in it – is getting out of hand

They usually hold prices down just before the elections. Once they are return to power, the prices go up immediately. This is tragic as the data below shows more suicide in election years after the price increase (sometimes immediately after polling day).

http://theonlinecitizen.com/2007/08/the-relentless-rising-cost-of-living-in-singapore/

I am extremely impressed by the wisdom exhibited by this young ‘heartlander’, who is supposedly from the lower classes and an ignorant peasant. His expressed opinions are better than all the MP leeches. I guess living a hard life really makes one grow up very quickly.

I don’t buy the accusation that this person is a ‘plant’ to stir up interest in the YPAP facebook group. This guy has written on things that are true and damaging to the PAP’s image – it will most likely stir people AGAINST the PAP. Why would they plant someone to do that?

Smart-Alex on November 3rd, 2009 11.52 pm
“Why not challenge the MPs publicly? Why choose to go online? MPs are everywhere every weekend. Go to every dialogue session and whack, like how you whack at the YPAP Network.”

Why not do it on national tv then. 5 top ministars (or people like you) and the floor. no holds barred, anything goes on national issues, no pre-qualification of questions before hand. Frankly, i have yet to see such impromptu sessions being carried out on national tv where your super stars could prove their worth of their multi-million-dollar price tag.

dialogue session, you must be joking. who is to see and judge. maybe people like you will be there to self-congratulate and clap for your own kakis barring outsiders to witness the show.

And Smart-Alex, please correct our ignorance or misconception if there is any, please please please. Your whole battalion can’t even handle the onslaught of only a one-person army on an online basis and here you are blah blah blah.

Good Morning,

Indeed, we are really living in interesting times.

As when Gemami writes: “I’m not sure Alex, where you are coming from and where you are heading with this. ”

What he may be trying to say is: all warfare is based on deception. And politics for lack of a better word is quite simply the clearest expression of this adage.

Consider this Alex: how to do you imagine ALL elites secure their hold on power? Do you really believe they would allow “change” from an external source to course through their ranks and alter their known landscape?

Let me put it another way: why do you think Samurai banned gunpowder? Was it because the musket,and ball was less effective than ancient sword and arrows – or maybe it was simply a means of allowing them to perpetuate their class politics through the ritualized cult of the sword?

As you can see Alex, its far more expedient to ALWAYS sell the vast majority of humans; the ILLUSION that real change is somehow possible from within rather than delivering on the real promise?

The advantages of peddling ILLUSIONS hardly requires any elaboration; the risk can be managed with admirable ease; the house will always wins and if it gets too hot just cook up a DDOS attack and so on and so forth.

That only leaves one problem – how many people do you think are willing to trade in reality and settle for illusions?

Indeed we are living in interesting times – we are. You must not be angry with us; we are simply free men with free minds. Besides this is how the game is played. And this is sportsmanship. Do carry on.

I do apologize for butting in. Thank you.

SD

Hi Alex,

I’ll try to re-post my earlier comments by breaking them up since they seem to be under perpetual moderation.

Hi Alex,

Thank you for taking the trouble to come here and share your thoughts with us. I sincerely hope you are the real deal, that you are as honest as your straight-talking, and that you are also honestly championing the cause of the down-troddened Singaporeans – as you’ve seemingly made yourself out to be.

Help put my skeptical mind to rest.

The issues you have been bombarding the YPAP with, are the ones that are shown to be of the greatest concern to the people of Singapore. These have been talked about here and almost elsewhere else in every SG socio-political blog. In other word, they are nothing new.

My point is this: since these issues are nothing new, what’s the point then in bringing them out onto a platform where you know the congregation will surely gun them down?

There is only one answer to my concern expressed above – that you are enabling the YPAPs to exercise and hone their rebuttal skills – to rebut every concern that Singaporeans are talking about these days. And why do they need the opportunity to honed their rebuttal skills? One word, Election.

I can see that you have a wonderful blog with writings that cover every issue of recent concern. It scares me. This is why I sincerely hope that you are the real deal – honestly, sincerely and truthfully, one who cares for your fellow Singaporeans; and not part of a crafted game – a game where the PAP selects its best man to play the role.

gemami,

Alex is just one of many who happens to participate in Pappy Forum and engage those Pappy supporters. The issues discussed have never been new, and why thing be new in order for discussion under those “one of those many” forums ? It just another pappy forum as usual. Nothing highfalutin, nothing extraordinary.

It also happen that TOC interview Alex, and Alex agreed. There is nothing unusual about Alex, nothing of PAP conspiracy thingy. My guess the misunderstanding come about because we expect that person has to be different when TOC interview him and give him attention ? I doubt Alex himself ask to be interviewed. He just did the interview anyway and TOC has it post online. We should just give him a benefit of doubt.

“There is only one answer to my concern expressed above – that you are enabling the YPAPs to exercise and hone their rebuttal skills – to rebut every concern that Singaporeans are talking about these days. And why do they need the opportunity to honed their rebuttal skills? One word, Election.”

Maybe yes. As I said, Alex probably doesn’t care too much of the politics and ramification of his engagement in PAP forum, he just want to engage them just as simply (or as naively as some imply).

eg
Human go to the lion’s den to tame the lion, and someone say that it will only make the lion stronger and better to survive. The lion goes to the human’s den and someone say that it will only make the human stronger and better to survive. But then do the human and lion really care about the ramification ? After all, the human and lion go into each other den to satisfy their own need. Human kill/capture lion to prevent their family member been eaten by lion whereas lion eat human for food.

In the same way , Alex could just be satisfying his inner need of waking up the pappy as mention in the interview.

Hi Utopia,

Unfortunately my argument sounded flawed because the punch-line goes straight into the dark room each time I try to post it. Try as I might, three times already, but it still went into moderation.

What I am trying to do is to arouse some sense of caution as well as to tickle some minds. We know that the election is not far away. We know that online argument is not the PAP’s forte. We know it has to start reviving its online presence, and we know it is struggling with this.

Listen to the harpings coming from the Mediacorpse, the ratings, the awards and so on.

It is attempting to rebuild its credibility and it hopes that its print platform, where it has absolute control, can be transferred and implanted in its numerous online platforms.

Look at the amount of energy and the number of different portals it has in cyber space. Pay close attention to how it disguises itself to pretend to lend ears and hands and legs to online grievances and discourses. See that it is trying so hard to give the impression that this government is an angelic one – far, far different from the hard- and heavey-handed regimes of old.

Am I the only one (well, I know of another) who are the only ones wondering whether Alex is the real deal in championing the cause of the down-trodden Singaporeans? How sure are you that he is not a part of the game the regime is playing? It is a matter of life and death, my friends. That’s politics.

And to ensure that it wins, the regime has to pick the best man to play the role. I may be wrong or way off the mark but it does you no harm to think about it.

Hi Utopia,

I’ve posted a reply to you. We’ll see if its allowed to see the light of day.

“There is only one answer to my concern expressed above – that you are enabling the YPAPs to exercise and hone their rebuttal skills – to rebut every concern that Singaporeans are talking about these days. ”

Worry not. The YPAP in the any of PAP forums can only regurgitate the same hollow model answer set forth by their masters. They are taught to be nothing but parrot and answering machine. Engaging those brainless droids are nothing but for satisfaction purpose. Whose know, it will even be better to expose those YPAP as such.

I recall certain minister once say something like that NMP,NCMP, opp party make a good sparring partners in parliament. Yes, let them say what they because it backfires as majority of those PAP MPs are substandard, lack IQ and EQ when it comes giving answer and solution. The sparring partners only show how pathetic and disgraceful is the PAP party.

wow utopia that analogy exacts how i feel, im not good with language so pardon me for not explaining clearly.

gemami:
may i ask you go to that forum and tell me if the pappies there are really answering
questions or simply regurgitating straits times logic.

if it is indeed any kind of training, how would you grade their replies so far?

you are a free man, so am i. you dont have to answer mine questions above because im not interested. questions can guide you how to think but i cant force you do so. search your mind.

what points to your mind?

what points to your mind?

I think the PAP had succeed in attracting people like Alex to their platform which they provide to engage. It is part of PAP strategies.

Hi Alex,

I am asking questions too, in case you haven’t noticed. I would urge TOC to free my post @ 51) gemami on Your comment is awaiting moderation, so that readers can fully understand my pov.

I have nothing against you Alex. just that I am waiting to be convinced and yes, we are free to choose.

The only sexist comment I dislike is this:
“Female citizens can serve as nurses in our foreigners-dependent government hospitals and learn a thing or two about motherhood and healthcare.”

MOTHERHOOD? REALLY?

And some females are tough too, tougher than their male counterparts. How about being politically correct in all areas, and just say that you believe citizens (new or born/bred here) should serve the nation. Whether it be through combat or through basic nursing training or clerical work, regardless of race or gender?

That said, I’m only 2 years older and I really appreciate the change my generation aspires to have come. That includes standing up to criticisms of an equalist (not feminist) by the way.

There is no hurry to choose. I agree with many here who ask that Alex be given the benefit of the doubt. I also agree with many here who advise us to be as wise as serpents. Lets see Alex is now 22, no work experience and probably worth very little. I think if we watch Alex for the next 10 yrs, by then he would be married, tied down to a job, monthly commitment to cars, hse, parents etc. If by 2019, he can still say all those things he is now saying, he has my vote.

Anyone can spar with kiddies. Ten years is about just right, see yah then Alex!

54) fair and square on November 4th, 2009 2.42 pm

I were Ale*, I would say bo** to you.

First, you look at your own situation and condition first. If you fare good or you like the system, support the system. If not for whatever the reason, do not support the system and do what you think is right.

Ten years down the road which is really long term (r u working with timasek), you may turn into a monster worst than those shown in Resident Evil.

Dear Alex,

We need more people like yourself standing up for what you believe is right. The issues that you pinpoint are daily challenges that Singaporeans are living with. The policies of benefitting the top few percent of the population need to be reviewed. For example,
1. income tax for the top few percent has been receding while GST has increased
2. Estate duty is recently removed to be in line with HK; basically only the top echelon of the society benefits from this
3. notion of looking after top income earners so that that the effect will trickle down needs to be re-examined; as most do not invest in business to create more jobs but they invest in properties which results in skyrocketing property prices

Sometimes, I do believe that it is not because the government does not care, but it is that they are not in touch. They do not understand that lowering bus/MRT fare by 10-20cents, monthly electrical bills by a few dollars, ERP by 50cents means putting a few more dollars in the pocket of people who can buy something for their kids, or to buy a Mac meal or to rent a movie dvd.

There is a need to change the direction at which this country should be steered. We need to focus on the needs of the Singaporeans in the street; from reviewing tax policy, cutting waste in the government, expenditure policy to education to defence and healthcare, and reducing government roles in business.

I urge you to take a step further. You have good ideas on how change should be done. We need political actions to change this country. It will not happen overnight. We need people like yourself with a good heart and clear mind to join politics.

I know there are many Singaporeans who are looking to migrate. If the next GE looks like the last GE, I am sure a lot more will go.

Ten years is not a very long time. The internet is already nearly 20 yrs old, even PM Lee and MM said recently they are making 15 -20 yrs investments with GIC and temasek money, that is why they are not very concerned about citibank and UBS losses of about 90%, so I am just taking their lead.

I am simply a free woman who has a free mind and I make my decisions freely.

That is something no one can ever take from me.

Ten years.

Please spare me this ticklish feeling down my spine whenever the word “long term” is mentioned in association with CiC & tIMiSek.

I appreciate your drift – the UBS losses. As for taking their lead, you naughty naughty girl.

i think we have enough said about Alex this and Alex that. a ploy or not, time will tell. i had been working my ass off fighting those PAP members in YPAP facebook forum day and night, i hope everyone will focus on fighting the real enemy.

we might have differing concepts about NS and other issues, but i can tell from everyone’s understanding that we have a common goal:
removing the PAP.

lets focus on instating a new government first.

only a non-PAP government will listen to Singaporeans and iron out issues together through democracy. now, we should save our ammos here and fire at the right enemy.

Unite and conquer.
or
divide and Die.

regarding my previous comment calling for TOC’s involvement, i am very positive about it. i know of a forummer in 3in1kopitiam forum, kojakbt, who archive and update a list of PAP flops everyday. he also came out with vital statistics(price of HDB collate with numbers of foreigners and etc.) and satircal pictures and stories(similar but still lose to Lucky Tan at singaporemind.blogspot.com).

Singapore have the right talents and energies to replace the PAP.
what we need is synergy to put all these scattered bushfire into a flaming forest fire.

vote for Change, vote the PAP out.

Unfortunately my argument sounded flawed because the punch-line goes straight into the dark room each time I try to post it. Try as I might, three times already, but it still went into moderation.

What I am trying to do is to arouse some sense of caution as well as to tickle some minds. We know that the election is not far away. We know that online argument is not the PAP’s forte. We know it has to start reviving its online presence, and we know it is struggling with this.

Listen to the harpings coming from the Mediacorpse, the ratings, the awards and so on.

It is attempting to rebuild its credibility and it hopes that its print platform, where it has absolute control, can be transferred and implanted in its numerous online platforms.

Look at the amount of energy and the number of different portals it has in cyber space. Pay close attention to how it disguises itself to pretend to lend ears and hands and legs to online grievances and discourses. See that it is trying so hard to give the impression that this government is an angelic one – far, far different from the hard- and heavey-handed regimes of old.

Am I the only one (well, I know of another) who are the only ones wondering whether Alex is the real deal in championing the cause of the down-trodden Singaporeans? How sure are you that he is not a part of the game the regime is playing? It is a matter of life and death, my friends. That’s politics.

And to ensure that it wins, the regime has to pick the best man to play the role. I may be wrong or way off the mark but it does you no harm to think about it.

Alex is smart to say only a non-PAP Government will listen to Singapore. What a shallow statement. What Unite and Conquer, Divide and Die!? Ridiculous man.

NS does not stand for national service. It stands for national subjugation and national slavery. Singapore males had been subjected to being slaves of the SAF regulars in serving 2 yrs of NS and 10 ICT to help the SAF regulars justified their employment. SAF is a money wasting machine. All our income tax and GST has been gone to pay for the high pay of the SAF regulars, who constantly justifed their high pay by bluffing the PAP and the people of the importance of military defence. The PAP leaders, being incapable leaders, listened to their bullshit of the need for high military expenditure and the need for SAF regulars to be paid a premium above market pay and a need for hugh retirement fund after their retirement.

Depending on one’s point of view, Alex’s actions in the YPAP Network Facebook page can be considered “engagement”, heckling, or trolling. It is very unlikely to achieve his stated objectives. Instead, it will probably have the opposite effect, and lead everyone concerned to become entrenched in their pre-existing positions.

Hi Gemami,

I ask you to reconsider your paranoid position.

Hi Alex Tan,

There will always been paranoid people. Take a look at this Viswa Sadasivan thread. It is full of paranoia and skeptism but that is because under Lee Kuan Yew, cynicism displaces heroism. No wonder some people say Singaporeans are apathetic.

Cheers
Donald
Deputy Editor
The Online Citizen

#61

Perhaps it has finally come to a point that only non-PAP government will listen to Singaporeans. We have given enough chance to PAP and that’s it. No more.

hi gemami

i have already moved on and hope that you stop harping on my credibility. “ok fine fine im a PAP member”, you satisfied?

may future comments of yours be directed against the atrocious reasonings by PAP. i might need more help at the YPAP forum to fight these insurgent views.

vote for Change, vote the PAP out.

Interesting. Some say be cautious of what alex tan says because he is a PAP mole to, in a reverse way, make PAP better. using the same logic, what if alex tan is the real deal and those who accuse him are the real PAP moles acting like the voice of caution to discredit a real voice? after all, discrediting is a key PAP tactic right?

Not sure who to believe so i wont pass judgement on any person. but i agree with some wise forummer who said we should not judge the person but the views expressed.

Hi Alex Tan,

I appreciate your efforts, by attacking them at their ‘camp’ it can only show how flawed is their logic.

I’m very keen to join you to fight them. But I’m not sure where you your thread and how to do it technically.

Shall we start a thread there about how only millionaire ministers can create a 2 Bn deficit in HDB?

Alex,

work within your means. In Singapore, life is going to be real hard as the top is going for a GDP chase. A GDP growths that do not benefit the citizens do not make citizen feel they are better off. In fact, I felt worse off.

Yes, importing cheap labours reduce company cost but with the mega growth in the population increase consumption and drive limited resources to their limit. The question is while the top enjoys growth which increase their pay check, they have forgotten that citizen get a good pinch in their wallet. The price of everything goes up rocket high due to supply and demand. These foreigners live in our society continued to live in their own comfort without notice that the local like me who dislike their habits. What to do? Their numbers are large.

Just think of this. Singapore needs MNCs to create jobs and to maintain growth. This dependence is already a worrying issue. Now, there is an increase in a risk of over depending on foreign workers. With the double dependence, the right of the local, I believe is soon going to diminish.

Concern is never being answered satisfactorily. There are lots more uncertainty about Singapore and its policies. I urge you to find a good job to gain some experience and take care of your mom while looking for a good promising job elsewhere.

I think it is a .. emm… waste of your time fight for the rights for holding the pink IC while risking yourself to an unknown level of risk. Migrate if not immigrate and give your mom a good form living elsewhere. I believe your mom who has been fighting hard to bring you up would hope that you will be successful in your career and able to give her a good life after she has retired.

Good luck, Alex.

“may future comments of yours be directed against the atrocious reasonings by PAP. i might need more help at the YPAP forum to fight these insurgent views.”

Alex,
If you interested in my view, here it is.
My view is that it will unlikely to change the view of those stubborn PAP supporters in their den no matter how convincing you sound. What do I say that ? Those Pappy choose to indulge themselves in self-denial, and choose deliberately to be naive, ignorant, gullible and narrow-minded in their Pappy forum. It is a deliberate choice of their own, and they definitely not misguided since it is just a click away to other site like Lucky Tan, TOC, TR , etc but they choose to ignore that and live in their own make-believe world. Apart from these, I believe they have vest interest in PAP’s status quo, and very likely they strongly view PAP as their benefactors in their own area of life or in work. Hence, it is pointless to engage them. It is only when PAP’s policies hit them hard that they will wake up from their surreal world. Anyway, those PAP forums are just hard-to-find, and not as popular as social-political blogs and hence doesn’t worth the effort of engagement. It is just their den for their own members to come and masturbation. Let them enjoy their own orgies at their own peril. Of so many sites, if someone choose to visit PAP forum/site to get info, so be it.

It will be more effective if they come to your den rather you visit their den since they can’t deliberately censor your view. A good example is Wendy Neo which becomes popular in Youtube. She surely one funny and talented gal that rebutes those PAP supporters in her den. Her video is pretty funny but yet effective.

But if you still continue the pursuit, I wish you the best.

Comment has been edited

Now, Alex, my opinion is a simple one. If you are the real deal, fighting and championing the cause of the down-trodden, then there is nothing for you to defend. Kudos to you.

My concern is this: What if you are not the real deal but part of the game that the PAP is playing? Again, if you are not, there is nothing to worry about, time will tell. But if you are, then I suggest you stop it because it is not only going to bring more pain to the people of Singapore but to yourself as well.

By and large, there is nothing for you to worry over if you are sincere, honest and truthful. Time will tell, Alex. Someone did say 10 years but although I get his point, I do not think you need 10 years. Singaporeans have grown smarter and are growing smarter by the day.

Finally, you cannot blame anyone (you too Donaldson) for keeping to the wisdom of those who have told us that: “Politics is a dirty game”. Is it wrong to be wary?

Hi Alex,

I posted a comment a couple of minutes ago but it is again under moderation. Please wait for it.

Alex, if you are going to give up so easily trying to convince someone who is as much against the position and views of the YPAP as you seemingly is, then what makes you think you can achieve success over at the land of the stooges?

Hi Alex,

Let me share with you something that might be worth sharing.

In the PapLand of the stooges, they have a religion. You do know what religion is to one who is religious, I hope? In this Papland, the stooges worship a god, whose name has the same number of letters to the one God who is ‘I Am’. His name is PAP. The religion is called: PAPism.

Bearing this in mind, let me question you what you really hope to achieve the day you decided to gather your arms, enter the holy temple of the stooges, and started blasting off with your whole armoury of weapons, attempting to destroy the temple that these stooges have so painstakingly built, held dear and worshipped?

It is like a non-gay, entering the temple of the gay and attempting to convert the gays by saying and doing all sorts of anti-gay stuff – in the hope of changing the gay.

It is like a gay who enters the Church, the Temple, the Mosque; attempting to make these religious faithful accept the gay and his lifestyle.

A hypothetical argument this may be but I hope you see the work you are attempting to do in its proper perspective. I would have rather expected that you had gathered a group of friends, with whom you could go into battle with.

Now I hope you understand why I feel your action is baffling and why it has raised the red blinkers in my head.

We can’t be too careful, Alex. Not when we are dealing with the National religion of Singapore – PAPism.

It matters very little whether Alex is real or a fake; or whether he decides to fight them or fly a kite – the real question is what is the goal? Once this question is successfully answered, everything falls perfectly into place; you will understand everything.

To know how the game is played; you must understand this; every oligarchy needs to replenish its ranks with capable men if it is to successfully consolidate its hold on power.

The Medici’s knew this only too well; that was why for centuries they cultivated the patronage of inventors, scientist, artist and thinkers; so did the Rothschild’s and the ancient chinese; one can even say this is one of the most enduring truism of the keys to power.

Consider this: how would you rate the quality of human material in YP?

Now you understand their problem and how serious it actually is – teo ser luck does not know this as he is a light weight; his bosses on the other hand cannot deny this reality.

To put it politely; they know only too well, that if Michangelo did not have marble to work on and only clay; he would have been nothing more than a potter.

No Gemami, you are hardly alone – look again my friend.

SD

“I would have rather expected that you had gathered a group of friends, with whom you could go into battle with.”

Gemami is right; Alex what is the rush to change things? Why so kuncheong? Besides this is trench warfare; in 5, 10 to 15 the battlelines will still be there; you want to charge; here take my lucky spoon, you go lah; only dont be surprise if you look back no one is following you. :)

As for me I rather watch TV. At least I can “change” the channels.

SD

Hi SD,

It’s been a long while but it’s nice to hear from you again.

Alex did try to tell us his engagement objective, which is to bring readers of the YPAP forum into the awareness of the PAP’s “flops and bloopers”. To be fair, he had presented us with quite a list of these blunders.

However, I found this a strange objective. Why would anyone in his right frame of mind want to do this – to throw himself into the lion’s den and hope to find a lion or two to keep as pets.

I don’t know, perhaps he was hoping to catch, not the lions, but the ducks and chickens that might have stumbled into the lion’s den. Then again, if one is looking for a duck or chicken to catch, he would have gone elsewhere to find them – certainly not a lion’s den.

It therefore brings us to the question you have correctly asked: “What is his goal?”

Depending on how one sees it, it can be the extreme of either something that is wonderful, or something that is scary. We can’t be too sure where politics is concerned, can we?

“However, I found this a strange objective. Why would anyone in his right frame of mind want to do this – to throw himself into the lion’s den and hope to find a lion or two to keep as pets.”

oh man, doing hair-splitting up to the acute level of nano on every single twist and turn that a 20+ guy made. give him a break, old birds.

Good Morrow Gemami,

I was sent to Russia for a long posting. Are you pretending to work :) as well, not to worry, we are in good company; that makes two of us.

Yes, there is only one question here; what is the goal; but it is not “his” as it remains “theirs.”

Did I tell you Gemami that during the height of the cold war; the KGB used to build fake western outpost along their borders. Thousands of soviets seeking freedom to the West would cut through barbed wire thinking they were border fences only to believe they had successfully found their way to the West; the soviets called this Stalin Scetendez – Stalins great lie, here the lie was seamlessly crafted; no detail was spared; whole communities were recreated just like the West complete with Wrigley’s chew gum, Miller’s lite beer, coney island hamburgers, anti communist radio messages; right down to slot machines that belted out the latest hits by Elvis Presley. For all intends and purposes these outpost looked exactly like Western outpost at the edge of the Soviet Empire; though in reality; they were manned by KGB agents attired in American uniforms who spoke perfect English.

Unfortunately today history does not record what happened to those escapees – you may be right Gemami. As you put it so beautifully – “We can’t be too sure where politics is concerned, can we?”

back to work

SD

69) tiredman
“I urge you to find a good job to gain some experience and take care of your mom while looking for a good promising job elsewhere.”

i am a project engineer, i do part time tutoring every weekend and part time banquet waitering sometimes. i work 24/7 and post my facebook comments using my iphone, my mom just recovered from breast cancer and is now retired.

the facebook war link is here:
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/group.php?gid=77865194499&v=wall

70) Utopia
on a sidenote, i want to test the validity of PAP’s and online community’s arguments. most of my knowledge comes from reading forums and blog posts.

71) gemami
yes ok i give up convincing you, please move on. direct your energies against the PAP instead will you?

74) singaporedaddy
GE is coming, i have no time to wait. PAP must go down, im doing it, alone or not.

75) gemami
yes yes you are right i am a PAP member, please stop. focus on the PAP.

Donaldson:
i hope you can close this thread for comments. we shouldn’t waste time here fighting at the wrong front. focus on the PAP.

vote for Change, vote the PAP out.

Sure, I will give Alex a break but I still hold the host of this forum responsible for my comments coming out in bits and pieces; giving the impression that I have targeted Alex for ridicule. Far from it, I have said some nice things about him and his blog too, but they are still under mod.

All I wanted to find out was his reason for doing what he is doing.

You know what? To bring this one step further up the nano scale, into the giganano level, I would like to draw your attention to this: that we have all become a part of this game, whether by choice or by default – with our participation in this discourse.

Soon, you will hear from the MSM that the cyber world is all abuzz with real and non-partisan discourse, that its young stooges are standing up and tall, listening, explaining, extolling Papland virtues while administering goonduland’s expressed desires – and – that all this is made possible by the host of Papland’s online portal.

Welcome to the wonderful world of politics and the politicking. Let it tick away while we give Alex a break, won’t we?

Perhaps, it might be good for some of us to go visit Russia while we do this. We might still catch a glimpse of fake western outpost mentioned by SD.

Alex,

I can’t match the post numbers in your latest reply @ 84) alex tan on November 5th, 2009 10.28 am.

As an example, your post comes in at number 84. What number do you see? The missing posts are mostly mine, I would presume. So, you did not get the whole picture of what I have said.

I do not blame you but the obstacle that keeps me from having a smooth exchange of views with you. I want to know you better Alex, and if you are true to yourself, to help you along with the battle at hand.

Try to understand where I am coming from and you will see that I am not all swords and daggers – unless you are hiding something.

Cheer up! You might be surprise to find me there when you turn around during battle.

Carry on Alex, I’ve already given you my lucky spoon; you’re good to go; its good for everything from digging fox holes to batting away deadly machine gun bullets. Keep it close to you in the great patriotic war – bye bye enjoy yourself in the Russian front.

Remember always we are always BEHIND you.

SD

I can’t find any of Alex’s comment in YP facebook, have they remove them?

Alex are you there?

Somehow the answers that Alex gave, gave me a queasy feeling that he is fighting for his own cause, but not the cause of each and every Singaporean. He speaks with the belief that everyone agrees with him, and must, because he doesn’t give adequate justification for his proposals. There’s a bit too much of pragmatism tinted in, i think.

Or maybe it’s just because it’s a quick interview, so Alex didn’t really have the room to elaborate. =|

This Alex is part of PAP. I have been reading his tread plus he kept calling for all of us to join him in the battle. You are not going to call your blough with us, Mr. Alex. What you are trying to do is to bring traffic to the PAP site. We will stick to our own. Please don’t pretend about what you are an engineer, this and that working hard. Don’t create this ficticious character. I am certainly not going to make you a hero. What a load of crap and a waste of time you have done here !

89) Cardin, i am a nobody. yes i am indeed fighting for my own cause:
abolish NS..

90) Norman, im not gonna make you believe me or not, whatever. focus your attack on the PAP please.

“Soon, you will hear from the MSM that the cyber world is all abuzz with real and non-partisan discourse, that its young stooges are standing up and tall, listening, explaining, extolling Papland virtues while administering goonduland’s expressed desires – and – that all this is made possible by the host of Papland’s online portal.”

you are damn right. but who cares anyway about those fairy tales that have been spinned by the other side..

ultimately, words (however eloquent or logically convincing picking only selective variables as usual) can only say so much and it is your own reality or “reality” that you have to take a deep closer look and measure up in relation to the larger scheme of things administered in this goonduland.

Alex Tan has won the battle. The stooges are quitting and “forgetting” about their time to rebut Tan’s questions.

This is exactly the same as YPAP forum before it got removed.

I foresee that the YPAP facebook is going to suffer the same fate as its forum. Haha.

Good job, Alex!

Today, we look at Singapore after 50 years of PAP rule:
everyone is tired and totally drained out by PAP’s pro-business approach.
Singaporeans work hard for very little relatively to other first world countries because of PAP.

trot down Shenton Way and Paya Lebar during peak hours, what we see is a typical Singaporean:
frustrated, stressed, angry and most importantly: helpless.

drop by old towns like Eunos’s circuit road, Chinatown’s waterloo street, Toa Payoh’s lorongs…we’ll see countless elderly peddling tissues, arching their back picking up recyclable items, pushing loads of “trash”, and the handicapped and poor in the streets performing, begging…what retirement? what first world country and GDP progress? all the GDP percentage has nothing to do with them!

look at our local tertiary students. the PAP rather fund some foreign students with worse-than-PSLE English than to subsidize Singaporean students university and polytechnic fees.

look at the blank faces of the NSFs: underpaid, tamed and have no freedom.

their resigned faces say it all.

Singapore today is a sad sad place.
there is no Hope and no signs of life here. work and work…
we have degraded into a callous and meaningless society because of PAP.

the PAP know it, but they want to have their cake and eat it too. thus they resort to propagandas: telling Singaporeans to smile, to be gracious, to be accommodating of foreigners, to appreciate what we have…faking happiness.
sometimes i wonder if the PAP members are faking it too.

does the PAP as a ruling government understand?

this place gives me heartaches, which is also the reason why i will choose to leave Singapore if PAP wins the next GE.

i will give it all i’ve got for the next GE, am considering to join the Opposition and hope to get socio-civic bloggers like me to be in for this too.

Singapore have all the talents to form a better government. i will approach them and hopefully pursuade these talents to concentrate together in one party and stand for elections.

will visit Reform Party’s open house next tuesday and the Worker’s Party headquarters the week after.

the people is waiting for a Change, a new Hope.
i have decided to stop waiting and seek the team who will be the Change. i hope readers will at least do their part by educating their families and friends about the sad state PAP has put us in.

p.s. i thank you all for the emails and messages of encouragement i received from the TOC interview. Change is about the people’s effort. lets give it all we’ve got for this country this General Elections.

Alex,

You asked for help in fighting the YP in facebook, I volunteered and asked you questions but you did not answer me.

Alex, Alex … and you are harbouring the hope that you could send the message you have just shared with us, across to those who have sold their lives to the MIW? Come, come … even if you have hated my guts for doubting you, there are others who have expressed a desire to join you in battle – whether with spoons or broomsticks. Why then are you ignoring them?

I feel a lot of desperation in you. Cool it, young hero. Rome wasn’t built in a day, didn’t anyone tell you? History is not created within a lifespan. If you are frustrated and desperate, then think about your forebears who do not have the luxury to decide whether to stay or to leave. All they could do was fight. So please, do not belittle their pain and effort by exalting your chivalry. There is nothing to crow about for one so ready to throw in the towel at the loss of one battle. This is not the spirit of fighters, young chap.

When you grow wiser in a year or two, and with one or two battles under your belt, you will realized that what you have done has created more damage to the cause you are pursuing.

Let me share with you one lesson I learnt here in TOC – to always go into battle with a smile on your face and in your heart. You will fight better with this. Trust me.

[...] petrol and no rights [Thanks Seelan ] – Singaporean Skeptic: I love the Straits Times Forum! – TOC: Meet the Protagonist of the YPAP Facebook Forum War – Singabloodypore: Freedom for Sale – TOC: And so the castle crumbles.. – Seelan Palay’s [...]

gemami

leave the battle to the young man and stop stalking him again and again. thanks.

GE2010 will say it all.

While the courage of Alex is admirable. I must say that some of his ideas are a bit too shallow and require a closer examination. One point especially is “abolish(ing) the re-service of NS”. Also I do not agree with him the list of most pressing issues in Singapore today.

Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely. The younger generation of PAP members have failed to connect with the people. This is can seen from the numerous holier-than-thou / insensitive comments by them.

Dear Alex,
Well done. You truly have the guts of a lion. I admire the moltivation behind having those guts even more. You give good name to the youngsters these days, I never known that a species like you exist. Now I feel, if there is one, there may be more. How nice if all of them align could themselves with causes like yours.
Now with all the spot light on you my friend, please be very careful with what you say and do. (you are quite right, I am a Singaporean and I too demonstrate a degree of fear for you, seeing what you are doing).
I do not agree totally with what you have said, but I admire your care and concerns for Singaporeans and I salute you for actually taking the effort to speak out. (Note: eventhough I disagree with some of the things you said, that does not make you wrong. It takes 1 voice, then 10, then 100, then 1000 and finally all sit down and trash it out and find the best solutions). Under no circumstances should anyone be banned from anywhere or be called names, for speaking out in a place where freedom supposed to exist – unless there is none.
I came to this forum after reading the news about you in the papers. Judging from the interview, I see a potential wise man in the making. Do continue to improve yourself and be very patient. Take time off to meditate when it all becomes too much to handle, do not act on impulse.
I hope you achieve great success in your future. I hope you meet more wise men in your life who can offer guidance and share experience with you.
One man can change the world Alex, that is how great ONE can be.
Good luck & best wishes.
SirWilliamWallace

sirwilliamwallace
thank you for your kind words. I will try my best and continue attacking PAP online propagandas, and hopefully, with my small resistance, it will bring democracy and freedom to Singapore.

vote for Change, vote the PAP out

The battle line is drawn. we will fight together alongside with you, Alex.
You are not alone.

Abolish NS!!!

If Taiwan faced with greater n mightier China can end military conscription, surely Singapore can do the same too……

http://www.chinapost.com.tw/editorial/taiwan-issues/2009/03/13/199883/End-of.htm

I agreed with Alex that 2 years NS is a total waste of time.
Who are we actually protecting?

alex well done keep engaging them and do good for singapore

Dear Alex,

As you can see, it is without doubt that you have gathered much support from online netizens.

If we remember that the original intention for causing all this furore, i assume, was for the ultimate benefit of Singaporeans, then let us not lose sight of the aim.

We seem slightly to be going around in circles, commenting and debating on your credibility, on PAP and NMPs, CHANGE, etc.

Many used to be just sitting ducks. Now many have become quacking sitting ducks. The question is whether or not we can take flight to avoid being shot.

The dust has been unsettled, now, then what is next?

This will be the next test of the substance of your claims and your intentions. Misunderstand me not, I do not doubt you, but simply, if you managed to consistently achieve and maintain these, most definitely would you be better able to engage your opposition.

(I have a query: For what are we voting against, in the name of Change?)

&my thoughts echo SirWilliamWallace’s.

Cheers.

I have been observing the exchanges between Alex and YPAP. To those who call him a hero. You ought to re-examine your head. My conclusion is that this person pose a greater danger to credible opposition than PAP.

Allow me to explain.

Why does a person openly attack / troll the YPAP website? Let us examine a few likely possibilities.

1) He is an unstable and radical moron.
- No one is the right mind would keep posting vulgarities at the YPAP.
- His NS records shows that he is either unstable and rash, which leads him to DB. Who would want to get into trouble in this manner during NS?
- He rather spend all the time trolling YPAP rather than taking care of his sick mother.
- His radical behaviour reminds us of CSJ who is remembered by many for causing opposition to lose credibility after the elections which oppositions had the best showings.

2) He is part of PAP or setup by PAP.
- He did not declare to be member of any opposition. Its not surprising. No credible opposition would want to associate with someone who behave so rashly and opening declare bringing down the government.
- His posts were not deleted on the YPAP website. Why? Is the moderators not working or is there a reason his posts are kept?
- He attacks LKY and PAP government openly. Urging people to bring down the government? Why was there no strong condemnation/reaction against him but the YPAP people seems contended to keep entertaining him by responding his posts?
- Very little is known about this person until now which is near election time.
- By engaging in rash and mindless trolling, he is indeed the ‘perfect’ example of ’senseless’ opposition that PAP always like to portray. The type of opposition behaviour that could turn off majority of the rational and mature voters.

3) He is a tool for certain opposition members
- His young age of 22 and immaturity and rashness allows certain people to use him as the mouthpiece/proxy to advocate their agenda.

4) He has a personal axe to grind against PAP.
- For reasons unknown, why so personal that a 22 year old can be so obsessed with radical idea of bringing down government and spending so much time attacking PAP in various ways?
- Other than wanting to bring down PAP, he doesn’t seem to have specific agenda/plans to share with the rest of Singapore

Looking into these possibilies, it can be safely concluded that whichever it is. His antics at the YPAP website can only cause greater harm to opposition than PAP.

If the above possibilities are speculations, one thing is not. He has succeeded in bringing much publicity and bring to YPAP more ‘facebook fans’ and in the trolling process brings ‘apathy’ to YPAP! Any credible opposition party would be wise to not allow this person as a member, as his ongoing online antics would be more of liabilities and provide wonderful ‘ammo’ for PAP to use during election time.

It has been proven again and again in elections, that Singaporeans seek a better opposition (the likes of Chiam and Low) – somewhat like PAP e.g. people with good credentials and education/intellectual, well-liked but hopefully a more humane front and less elistist. They want a balance parliament but not a radical change of government. Singaporeans flatly rejected confrontational approach (the likes of CSJ) whose bizzare behaviour Alex seems to be taking onto and this is hurting opposition at a crucial time!