MM Lee likes to say that he made mistakes IN THE PAST

BUT

WILL PROCLAIM THAT HE IS ALWAYS RIGHT IN THE PRESENT.

Lamentable!

patriot

I suppose it is the internal fight between regret and ego. One represents humanity and the soul. The other represents immaturity and arrogance. Age tends to cause us to slide from one to the other. I suppose Singapore had to put up with this slide. Pity it’s been a long slide, with no clear end.

Cheers!

Oh… sounds like MM Lee is regreting he should have implemented Mandarin as the first and official language, now that PRC is coming into power.

Maybe he is indeed getting senile, somehow he’s assuming everyone in Singapore is chinese already, and ‘need to make the Chinese language more appealing’ .

What about the malay language? What about tamil? Aren’t we also to make these languages more appealing too?

If he is really into regret, maybe first thing he can do is change the language of command in SAF to Mandarin and also the National Anthem. *Sarcasm*

Indeed a highfalutin statement of regret. Everyrtime he speaks, I shudder.

“We insisted on ting xie (listening), mo xie (dictation) – madness! ”

A professor fr China that MOE had hired as a consultant a few years ago had said the same thing [PRC kids do zero writing the first few years of schooling] but his views were rejected by the mandarins there — and possibly LKY himself. Resigned in frustration afterwards. LKY, of course, had to hear it fr his own daughter before he would admit he screwed up the policy and the lives of those who couldn’t get into uni and had to do their degrees overseas/migrate/stay put abroad.

Will he admit he was wrong about flooding this tiny island with foreign trash in the future?

It is no point to acknowledge your mistake after the damage is done.

Me surmises that a man who tries to change Nature will live regret it in the end.

Just got the feeling that the MM in his reflections of his deeds and policy makings might have felt liked a piece of trash lost in a rubbish bin sometimes.

BUT,

does he regret, feel remorse or sinful???

patriot

Dear Readers:

My apology; the First Sentence of the above comment should read ‘ live to regret it in the end’.

patriot

It will back back to square one after GE, don’t take all these comments too seriously. We have been through these scenarios before.

People admit you not happy. Don’t admit, you also not happy. Wah lan, how to please ! The man is old la, don’t understand why the opposition party here still so frightened of him. You probably know he still has the majority support from Singaporeans. #5 New Era, hey, I read in another posting that you like same sex then you should appreciate the open-mindedness of the foreign trash.

The brain drain realisation that Singapore has lost many intelligent people who had a difficult time grappling with two languages by going overseas for studies and did not return.

Until recently, conservative teaching is still being followed in Taiwan, many schools in HK and PRC but the difference is these kids only learn one language until they reach high school. Some children may be able to rote learn but majority who have a choice or could not cope would give up.

Although more creative methods of teaching has been introduced, the standard expected of students learning Chinese as a second language (mother tongue) is still very daunting for the majority.

Give hiim some credit for admitting a mistake. Many people don’t even have the courage to do so.

This is only a small part of the mistakes he made. That is the danger of giving too much power to one person. I hope Singaporeans learn to hold their government to be more accountable by voting wisely at the polls. Too strong a government dominated by one person for such a long time is too dangerous for all of us.

Where got admit error……….. He blame the chinese-language teachers for not able to speak english, or use english to teach the students.

What is this??? Using english to teach chinese, and hope the student will be able to learn chinese ???

“MM Lee said: “Nobody can master two languages at the same level. If (you think) you can, you’re deceiving yourself. My daughter is a neurologist, and late in my life she told me language ability and intelligence are two different things.”

Again, Mr Lee is making a mistake by basing this on his own experience. There are many people who have mastered two and more languages. He thinks just because he cannot, nobody else can.

We had teachers who were teaching in completely-Chinese schools. And they did not want to use any English to teach English-speaking children Chinese and that turned them off completely.”

THEY DID NOT want to use any english to teach chinese….
Blame the teachers……….. Oops Honest mistake

Lee Kuan Yew,

Got this into your head. The biggest problem in Singapore is that we have technocrats/bureaucrats (yourself included) who know zilch about the domains they are responsible for but are framing policies nonetheless. The results speak for themselves.

I wouldn’t say that bilingualism is your biggest blunder yet; that distinction should surely go to the Suzhou Industrial Park project and GIC. But we shall leave that discussion for another day.

Going back to bilingualism and language education, if you had not denied the problems and ignored the remedies, Singapore would not be in such a sorry state today. Even comparing the Chinese language education in Malaysia with ours, I think the former is admirably superior and they have done it without one Lee Kuan Yew since 1965.

Without so far as to evaluate the curriculum in the Malaysian Chinese schools (which can be done), one shall already get an anecdotal sense of the educational output by sampling the Chinese actors, singers and song writers from Malaysia (many of whom we know). Incidentally, such is a better measure of the love of a language, of a culture than the silly rationale of trading with China!

Singapore will do just fine if we put an educationist in charge of the MOE, not a surgeon, not an economist, not an engineer and what have you.

Maybe in future we may hear from him turning in his grave :-

We were so wrong. We shouldn’t have led in so many foreigners and PRs who later become Singapore citizens. These inglorious bastards later voted PAP out of government.

I’m doing quite a good business in China today because I’ve the Chinese language facility to help me integrate into the Chinese society.
I started out in Shenzen and hope to open a few more outlets up north soon.
MM has the foresight indeed. But trained as a lawyer & a politicain, he might not have the nitty-gritty In the pedagogy then. Nevertheless I’m thankful in 70s our schools gave us Mandarin as a second language; not all enjoyed it perhaps due of the rote teaching methods. Today there are in fact 1000s of bilingual Singaporean Chinese working in China. In fact, the opportunities for bilingual professionals are boundless given the huge market and newer places opening up in the West & interior of China. More Singaporeans will be able to secure jobs there in future.
I’m also happy to note that now my tax money will also go to improving the teaching of the language to create more jobs for Singaporeans, at home & abroad, in the future.
During this period we could also source Chinese language teachers from Malaysia. I heard they are competent in the language. They are schooled privately in non-national establishment and their lingua franca is Mandarin.

I feel ashamed that most if not many chinese singaporeans do not or cannot command their ethnic language Mandarin.

This problem was long known.

Yet.

Took he that long to know how much lives have been ruined, what now for those Mandarin teachers?

wow, just 2 languages to master and people cannot?
Europeans can command more than 2 languages.
The problem i see with singaporeans is they , generally, as commented by foreigners or expats,

NEITHER SPEAK GOOD ENGLISH NOR MANDARIN.

I seriously think singaporeans need to learn ‘how to walk’ first.
I mean, learn to master properly 1 language 1st.
Then if you are able to , learn another language.
Don’t force your limits.

A Language , IF PROPERLY Taught and have a SOLID SYSTEM , can be taught to a young person such that he can master it within say a few years.

Why need to spend decades?

Not productive. Nowadays we talk about PRODUCTIVITY. Efficiency.

Quite a Disappointment in performance.

Ang Kay Hock,

My friend, you certainly know how to take care of yourself. So what happens to your Malay and Indian Singaporean counterparts? Maybe it’s good to be not so myopic about your own views… think about Singaporeans as a whole..as multi-racial and langauages….and not just as chinese only.

Sigh ..shake head… can people be more pro-Singapore ..and less pro-prc?

#20, am i right to say Lead Shake did not form any opposition party nor was he ever an Opposition member given he did not belong to ANy party but as an Independent with his dad?

Dear 12) Terence Goh,

You said – “Again, Mr Lee is making a mistake by basing this on his own experience.”

You are absolutely right!

That’s the problem with our political leaders today. Most of them are quite ignorant and simple-minded about many things. When they are put in charge of affairs, they are unable to say or do anything sensible except to scrape the barrel of their own very limited life experience. The result is now all too obvious for all to see.

The only redeeming thing about this political tragedy is that at least he is now acknowledging his error. But, his realization came too late! Almost everyone else had been calling this policy a mistake over the last 40 years. The great irony is the fact that about the only person who is mistaken is the person in charge! Tough luck, Singapore.

I have mastered two languages, not including dialects such as Hakka and Cantonese. 4 languages in total.

What’s so difficult about that?

Just because this old man can’t speak Mandarin (can’t expect much from an English-trained lawyer), doesn’t mean the rest of us are equally sucky.

Who sucks more? Oh please…

Dear ErniesUrn

Please don’t misconstrue. Not everything is racial in approach. I’m talking about economics; Mandarin today opening doors in markets in China and even Taiwan and HK for economic benefits i.e. employment especially. And in businesses, also the profits are repartiated back home tor Singapore and ALL Singaporeans indirectly in infrastructure building, for example.
I know our schools are also providing Tamil & Malay languages at taxpayers’ expense. Our Indian and Malay counterparts with Tamil & Malay can also seek out opportunitiues in Tamil Naidu and Malaysia & Indonesia respectively to also contirbute to the economic well-being of Singapore in general. Together, it’s win-win for all Singaporeans.

Looks like our grand oldman is beginning to be aware of his limitations. Now, at the dawn of his twilight days he admitted that forcing second language into the school system was wrong.

What about so many wrongs he and his government implicated upon us. Can he list them all out and let the Shit Times publish it to show his magnanimity of his mistakes.

We will remember you as a legend in S’pore’s history.

Schools STILL teach that the Suzhou Industrial Park is a success and a classic example of collaboration with China. GCE O Level elective Geography.

I am not a linguist; however, looking from a positive note, I felt that learning another language or multiple languages other than English which is more universal (then and perhaps still is) is not a bad idea. It helps any individual attain a better understanding of cultural differences (outside of the English speaking countries). I think the importance of this “PROCLAMATION” is how it is being thought in school at large. Equal significance is the individual interest to speak and write the languages one chooses.

In retrospect, I do not think the policy is at fault, what is needed is to improve its guidelines and teaching methods. It should be more closely knitted to the changing world and emphasis should be place on how to uncover an individual’s potential. Environmental and Societal behavior does influence an individual’s perception and progress in attaining our linguistic skill so does parenting and peer group mentality. Whatever, one should never forget its root. In another words, there is more than just mastering language skill in live.

Mastering a language is no easy task for any individual young or elderly let alone mastering a second or third language, however it is even harder to “master” cultural difference which has equal significance. I think the emphasis should be put on teaching our younger generation to have a better understanding of the different cultural etiquettes. Once one attained a basic understanding of a different cultural, this may help boost interest in an individual in wanting to learn its spoken language and makes learning more fun and lively.

IMHO, whether learning a language or anything should come naturally with an individual’s interest as an emphasis and should not tag it with wanting to master it. Let nature take its course. If the interest to learn is strong, naturally, one will do well and over time, mastery of such skills will also come naturally and eventually.

Sincerely,

Observer (SG-HK)

24) Ang Kay Hock,

Hey you sound like you are one of those working in MDA or IDA, looking at alternative media and offering pro-Govt views to balance things out.

It is incredible that a businessman who is “doing good business in China” and “hope to open a few more outlets” can find time to surf the net and post comments. Your business must be doing really well.

So now that we have heard from the horse’s own mouth that it was a mistake, what should we do with this piece of news? Is he asking for understanding from the citizens that he is only fallible? Is he attempting to present himself as though he is someone who is to be admired for being able to admit a wrong? Is his regret going to undo the mess he created for being so foolishly stubborn? Does the whole PAP machinery that supported his foolishness all this while, now lament their foolishness in the same manner as this King of clowns?

Mind you, many lives were changed because of this wrong. Children were denied their school of choice because of their poor Mandarin grades. Many young dreams were shattered. These shattered dreams translated into hardships for the families of these children and the children themselves. Not being able to enter JC or pre-U at those times meant a life of struggle with O level results that could not secure these children a higher level of education. For years, many have to make do with their O levels to get by.

We do know that his other big blunder is the population-control policy. Again it was the result of the same foolishly stubborn ego, bringing about another mess that we are now grappling with.

The good thing with all these admissions, is the fact that the history that is so far written for this clown, needs a drastic edit.

In case anyone haven’t noticed – he did not, in any portion of his speech mentioned the two little words that mattered most: “I’m Sorry”.

The people deserve better that this.

That’s the colossal problem Singapore now, yes-men ministers and yes-men civil servants.

When it comes to their own personal convictions on what is best for Singapore and Singaporeans, they don’t dare to contradict the emperor for fear of provoking his ire.

LKY : Kids in school should be taught how to write in Chinese early.

MOE servant : Yes sir, anything else, sir ? We will implement that straightaway. Coffee, tea for you, sir ?

Do we need another 40 years for this bunch of morons to play around with our lives???????????? Enuff is enuff….time for a CHANGE!

What the f**k!
So MM Lee made a MISTAKE ?
WHAT A BLOODY MISTAKE!!

So called education policy of putting Singapore ahead of in producing bilingual and biculture scholars and students.

Just a mistake like that, how many english educated people were put off learning english ?
Why put up with a policy like that? Is the government always right all the time?
Where is the advisory panel, men of wisdom, to provide an alternate voice in MOE ?
Are there no feasibility studies done?
Just follow SO CALLED LEADER blindly and made this BLOODY G*D D**N MISTAKE!
NO ONE IS A LEADER IN EVERYTHING.
How to right the wrongs?
How much time and effort people has wasted under the previous S**T policy.
From the comments, MM Lee “REALLY” listens TO his child not anyone.

28) SM Goh on November 18th, 2009 1.27 pm

LOL. Good deductive reasoning.

I believe he is part of the ruling party’s internet brigade.

Can’t stop laughing.

one day he will tell you that he finally realised he is wrong to have fooled you people all along all these years and landed you people into this sorry stage today, and then what happen next?

Congrats Singapore!

The latest non-partisan international Berlin-based non-governmental corruption Transparency International (TI) ranking is just out.

Singapore is ranked 3rd out of 195 countries.

Shabus! Keep up the good work Singapore . . . .

31) blackfeline on November 18th, 2009 2.09 pm
Do we need another 40 years for this bunch of morons to play around with our lives???????????? Enuff is enuff….time for a CHANGE!

Do we? most of the citizens were being forced to into accepting their policy all these years, its time we people kick them out of the country.

..oh.. Mr Lee.. there are more mistakes to be realized in time to come..
likelihood, you won’t be around or be the one realizing it when kaka hits the fan…

A whole generation of chinese intellectuals in Singapore were wiped off for good when they closed down the chinese schools. The lineage was cut and has been extinct since. Honestly, how many in Singapore can hold a decent mandarin conversation, let alone read or write in these times? Recently, I attended a book launch by Ms Lung Ying Tai and sad to say, during the Q&A, there was not a single Singaporean among those 10 plus readers that went up to the floor to speak their mind. What we are facing today is the mere result of that policy.

Too little too late, anyway the bigger harm is the population control policy and the use of GDP as a measure of progress, for which we are suffering now . The present big mistake is the immigration policy , which will definitely create social tension in the near future, by then I will be dead and my children have already given up on this place and have followed the steps of SM Goh’s daughter.

I use the public transport very often. Out of no malice I use to overhear conversations in English and Mandarin around me. I must say I am appalled by the type and low standard of both languages that they speak. These people are wide ranging, from students to professionals and ladies in very fashionable attire and men in office dress and ties who I guess are mostly university graduates. I do not think foreigners, especially those from Europe and USA, will understand our type of English and those from China, HK and Taiwan, our type of Mandarin. I must admit that HK, China and Taiwan people speak better English than us although their English speaking population is proportionately lower than ours. This is inspite of English not their officially language.
Unless the study of languages are treated seriously, not just to be used to pass examinations, Singapore’s English language will evolve into a language that will not be intelligible to most of the English speaking world. So will our Mandarin to the Mandarin speaking world.
Can somebody tell Media Corp and Gurmit that it is not funny anymore the standard, type and level of the language that we use as the main media of communication.
One piece of advice: don’t laugh at Ris Low on her preenz and boomz. You maybe laughing at yourself.

Anyway, if it wasn’t for PRC, MM Lee wouldn’t even bother about Mandarin and the lack of it.

Imagine if China wasn’t in this picture and then some NMP came along and address the issue of making Malay lanuguage the offical one, since it had been the language uses in the early days; and that we are surrounded by muslim countries, that we should must our bahasa; that Singapore malays now are struggling with their malay language and that most can only converse in english… MM Lee would have told him to shut up and sit down.

So don’t be so taken over by this bilingualism debate. The bottom line issue is that it is still about trying to angkat China.

25) leesjuanpat on November 18th, 2009 1.06 pm

‘ we will remember you as a legend in S’pore’s history’

it should be WE WILL REMEMBER YOU AS A LEGEND IN S’PORE’S MOST DISASTER HISTORY.

The Most Egoistic Man admitting mistake!

The People are expecting MM Lee to repeat this for many more times

and even if he does not, the people will still be expecting them.

It’s because the People have a common reading of him(MM).

patriot

18/11/09

Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew forgot to tell us Singaporean to learn Mandarin so that we can go to China where there is a population of 1.2billion to tap………and I am saying again like in my other postings ie “how many of us Singaporean can really go to China to work, do business, open factory or study, perhaps maximum 5% but I am looking at 2% or less. Speaking Mandarin policy has resulted influx of those Chinese from China and what we got are those second and third class Chinese in Singapore and their contribution is very insignificant. Further, the standard of our English has worsen, and now what we have in Singlish, and almost a total disappearance of the various Chinese dialects like Hokkien, Teochew, Cantonese, Hakka, Khek and others and their rich traditions and cultures embeded in these dialects. Time for us to focus less on Mandarin and bring back the various Chinese dialects and make our Modern Singapore once again colorful and vibrant. Mandarin has made Singapore almost colorless and lifeless since them, and the Singapore Mandarin is neither here or there.

Regards
Andrew Chuah

#43,

long time ago, PRC was a 100% communist country, NOW, PRC is a 100% economic power country never mind whether it is communist anymore. I bet MM Lee loves the way PRC managed its country (where he fears most and hate most during 50 years ago) at this point of time

U have to pay the crime for closure of Nantah University LKY. your name will go down in Singapore Political History. Smear a Thousand Years.

Interview by Editor, Times International

http://www.razor.tv/site/servlet/segment/main/news/38974.html;jsessionid=114F4BF0D01AF05E4A8E9F7B6A5C7958.01

Reflect . . .

yes, he is the cause the nantah closure totally which he fears most might link to communism in sg. even not long ago that NTI whose name nantah might be changed permanently fro his influence.

indeed, he is really one of the kind….

Our Higher Mortals are always right…..unless they tell us that they were mistaken.

Who are we, Lesser Mortals, to challenge

ErniesUrn on November 18th, 2009 3.36 pm

Sorri, not my children learning bahasa. As an ex-Malaysian I got a credit in Malay but can’t even get a government job then when I was in Malaysia. Almost all such jobs are reserved for Malays. Unless I had money, business is out too.
Malay is a relatively easy language as you can see most of our leaders can handle it fluently because unlike the ancient languages like Chinese or Tamil, it’s romanised. Meaning beyond a certain level most of the words are in fact English with a twist spelling (ejaan). Jawi, on the hand is Arab in origin. Its scripting is quite elementary and therefore cannot be used for Science & Maths otherwise Malaysia would have adopted it long ago for originality for its people. Today Jawi is confined to the Islamic religious studies. Moreover, Malay langauge is not an official UN language.

Malays should keep the Malay language with English as the common language in Singapore but it should not be forced upon others because there is no economic value & utility in the langauge at all. It’s a backward step for the others. Anyway, unless Indonesia & Malaysia are serious about the Engish language (and now with people worldwide learning Chinese for advantage) I don’t see how their economies can respond effectively & compete globally.

#42

For someone who critisizes the standard of English and Chinese, you write prettly badly yourself, lol.

I nearly puke out my breakfast this morning lol

Hello, Tie Xie is not listening, it is spelling and Mo Xie is, memorizing and writing it down, not dictation -_______________-”

#53
Thank you very much for your feedback.
Please show me how to write better. Looking forward to learn more and improve.

Speak Chinese is a bluff, ii it chicken backside farting. Write Chinese is a roots to your ancestor tongue. Write Chinese it also help to improve your mentality (words in turning & twisting generate your memory)

How many times have he ever been right? Almost every policy he came out with has been wrong.

Even today, the foreign talents import policy is WRONG! Will he be able to live for another 30 years and then come and tell us that he has been wrong again? While in the mean time, we have to just suffer in silence?

MM Lee, with due respect, you had better tell your son and your ministers that when a top leader makes a serious mistake, many people below suffers not only in one generation but in a few generations to come. Pragmatism without vision is simply experimentation, by trial and error. Anyone with a common sense and an average intelligence can do that.

You were simply experimenting at the expense of the millions of citizens below you. And not even a word of “Sorry” can come out of your mouth. This is arrogance and insolence at the highest.

The success of Singapore during the past 40 years is due to collective efforts, not one man’s effort, not one party’s effort. So, there is nothing great. So, don’t keep claiming credit for this and for that.

LKY has no “Roots”, he belived in Science ! He is from outer space. (no parent birth him, he declare). But I read a Book “No Man Is An Island” it mention that he is mix Dutch Blood from one Pansir Panjang Dutchman Bugalow House. I came across a Colonel ,he said he is a Hainanese. LKY he himself declare is a Hakka. So he has no roots. Which is Which (Alien)

no.53, dont comment on others in bad light. I plumber only also can see your sentence construction also not correct leh

As I always said LKY is an “Empty Vessel Make the Most Noise”. Not only this mistake he has done. In the Early Strait Settlement, Sabah & Sarawak (North Borneo) has been given to Singapore. He make a blunder to lost it to Malaysia. This two state with abundant of resources, can make Singapore very Rich. In the 80’s when the Semi-Conductor IC chip first came to Singapore , he rejected it. Later went to Tiawan, and make Taiwan very Rich. He is just a very Idiot. Y Singaporean like to vote 4 them. Suay People. (Severe U Right)

“We started the wrong way. We insisted on ting xie (listening), mo xie (dictation) – madness! We had teachers who were teaching in completely-Chinese schools. And they did not want to use any English to teach English-speaking children Chinese and that turned them off completely.”

MM Lee said: “Nobody can master two languages at the same level. If (you think) you can, you’re deceiving yourself. My daughter is a neurologist, and late in my life she told me language ability and intelligence are two different things.

He said “WE started the wrong way” (Not I started the wrong way = share responsibility)
He said “We had teachers….. and THEY DID NOT WANT TO teach chinese using english.” (put the blame on others)

He did not say “I am sorry”

He based his observation on his family members…. eg his daughter and his grandchildren……..
And he said those who could not master two languages are NOT STUPID….

From REACH:

http://app.reach.gov.sg/reach/YourSay/YourDiscussionCorner/tabid/117/ptid/414/page/1/totrecs/625/threadid/1857/forumtype/posts/Default.aspx

Foolish to advocate the learning of dialects?

By Andy Liew Shiau Min

From REACH :

http://app.reach.gov.sg/reach/YourSay/YourDiscussionCorner/tabid/117/ptid/414/page/63/totrecs/625/threadid/1857/forumtype/posts/Default.aspx

By GuardianAngel

Recently My Dad was hospitalised, I went to see him in the hospital, to my surprise the doctor looking after my dad was unable to speak Dialect at all, he is a chinese, can only speak little bit of mandarin.

I came to notice it because when he saw my dad bed card stated Speak Teochew, he said alamat, than I ask him why?? He told me I cannot understand any dialect, I only can speak English or abit of Mandarin.

I really wonder how come our society getting worst is it, even doctor now cannot speak dialect really like what the doctor said ALAMAT!!!!!

With the consideration of Singapore’s unique position in Asia, English, Mandarin, Malay and Tamil must remain a learning language for all Singaporeans. There is no clear advantages in knowing one language over the other. It’s just a matter of whether you want to extend your communication skills outside your comfort zones to people who are natives of these languages. Mandarin is the preferred language for those in China. Malay is the lingua of Southeast Asia (Bahasa) and as Tamil is to India. Once in Singapore, your company of friends reflects your language ability. Nothing is more truthful than this.

Ahh….is he thinking “if my daughter can’t do it, the other people sure can’t do it”

But i totally agree with some of the posters…look at some of the European countries…their citizens master two or more languages…within the same country, different city may use different language..

“Nobody can master two languages at the same level. If (you think) you can, you’re deceiving yourself.”

No, believing in this excuse is then deceiving ourselves…Instead, it is not the ability to master multiple languages that is the issue…it is the emphasis….when so much empasis is place on english, whereby if you fail it, you virtually fail the whole year. while chinese is, if you fail it, it is still ok…of course most people will focus on english as that’s the critical subject…failing english is just like the 0 in multiplication, end result will be zero.

do any of you remember the system? if you pass first language, you only need to pass 2 other subject to get promoted, but if you fail, you have to pass 5 subject to advance….

Why he responsible when there is someone paid to do the Education departmental?

““Nobody can master two languages at the same level….”

I am impressed by this confidence.
I assume he checked and found that no one in the world can?
How about the highest paid Translators?
i ask can or not?

18/11/09

Hi Jane-Good to hear from you and you wrote “:foolish to learn dialect” and I firmly say you are very wrong and to me it is very foolish to learn Mandarin and I have refused to learn Mandarin ie speak and written, and when I travel to China, I only use English ie speak and write, and on the immigration card, I did not write my name in Chinese,

We as Singaporeans, must bring back our various Chinese dialects and slowly do away with Mandarin in our media ie TVs and Radios, and focus solely on English as our English standard has gone worse. Hongkong has done away with Mandarin and all out to bring back the good old days of English ie speaking and written. The percentage of the English world is far bigger than the Mandarin world and even in China, the Chinese are using more English ie spoken and written.

Take a look at Malaysia which has reverted the teaching of science and mathematics back into Malay and Mandarin and they are sure to fail very badly (this is political for survival for the ruling BN-UMNO and the opposition PR, they need the votes of their respective races. I just read on the net, its Deputy Education Minister Puad who hails from Johor state, in his press conference asking all Malaysians to speak Bahasa Malaysia. This must never happens in Singapore when one day we wake up and all of us must speak Mandarin (never be allowed)

Regards
Andrew Chuah

Root cause of problem? Only yes men and women. If you stand-up to him and disagree, you are purged.

Mass immigration will also surface as a mistake because no one in the government and civil service dare to oppose.

Pride and Arrogance => Pain

“”Learning Chinese the fun way”" is an excuse.
“”Learning Chinese the fun way”" cannot stand the test.
I once used computer and animation to teach Chinese to a child.
At first he liked it. So he asked his father to get him a computer. Later he indulged incomputer games.
Even during Chinses lessons, he was distrcted by his “computer game”.
He was beyond repair. He failed his Chinese badly and he will never learn Chinese in his life time.
Too bad. I had also given up on him.
Lesson learned. I will never used computer to teach Chinese using so-call “the fun way”.

Now many of my students are very successul in their Chinese Exam.
Quite a number of them who failed badly in the past were able to get “B” in their PLSE.
Use your brain. Don’t just believe wholesale what others tell you.

Regardless of whether China is getting richer or poorer, as a Chinese, one needs to know his own mother tongue. The problem with learning Chinese here is the perception that English is superior and has better economic value. I believe Michael Jackson has the same perception of the whites before he completely bleached himself. A Chinese can reject the learning of his own language or even reject the whole idea of being Chinese. But in the eye of the westerners, a Chinese is still a Chinese. And worst, some caucasians even snob at the idea of being a “Banana”.

Back to the issue again, if parents, authorities, and society at large continue to worship everything from the West blindly, there can never be a place for Chinese in Singapore. Look at the state of our Chinese dialects here. They have been stripped till nothing, even though they are essential elements of the Chinese culture.

MM Lee said: “Nobody can master two languages at the same level. If (you think) you can, you’re deceiving yourself….”

————————————————————————————————————

Then how come he could pick up Japanese so fast, at a level good enough to be an “interpreter” during WW2?

LKY AND HIS CRONIES MUST PAY FOR THEIR POLITICAL CRIMES AGAINST SINGAPORE!!!

http://fashionablefacistdictator.wordpress.com/

Did ANY People Representative voiced up on :

“Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew said his insistence on bilingualism in the early years of education policy was “wrong”. ”

?

I met some young PRC ladies who speak fluent mandarin and fluent English American slang and all.
So some can do it.

72) SpongeBoob

Wise words indeed. May I add – colonial hangover

72) SpongeBoob

Like someone here posting proudly that he refuses to speak Mandarin, a Chinese trying to be angmo, will at most succeed to be a pseudo angmo, only serving to feed to the real angmo’s ego and becoming their plaything to laugh and mock at.

your example of MJ trying to be white is so apt. And ironically, he sang “it don’t matter if you’re black or white”

more colonial hangover

http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-sg:IE-ContextMenu&rlz=1I7SUNA_en&q=racist%20songs%20about%20asians&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wv#

18/11/09

Hi Sponge Boobe-K noted your posting and I am glad that you agreed with me. I have refused to speak and write Mandarin but I speak fulent dialects ie Hokkien and Cantonese and look at the Hongkis who have got rid of Mandarin early this year and now focus on English ie both spoken and written and they have big balls to do this despite Hongkong being a Special Administrative Region (SAR)

Regards
Andrew Chuah

The man indeed has great foresight.

I remember in the 70s then MM predicted the rise of China as a great power by the turn of the century and thus encouraged Chinese students to do Chinese as a second language.

But all the Chinese teachers then were schooled in rote learning in a monolingual context themselves. They simply carried out the order to teach Chinese in a way they knew best – rote learning. Like father like son context.

There was no cross fertilisation or pollination of pedagogies between the different languages. English taught in parallel wasn’t taught in rote. The twain thus never met in learning within the classroom. Only the brightest however could manage and master both the languages.

MM’s message was somewhat prophetic and the intention was good. As an astute politician, he foresaw and knew what was coming in the horizon then. He left the rest to the so-called “professionals” , the Chinese educationists who taught the subject as if they were teaching Chinese as the main subject to students starting out right from Primary 1 in Chinese.

Yes. Hindsight . . . . . The casualty rate was high. I myself was one of the casualties. On a lighter note the Chinese serial on Channel 8 has over the years helped me understand and converse in the langauge (which is not an easy especially in its written form).

Well, it’s not to late for change. “Change” says Obama. Yes. Better late than never. We’ll all change the pedagogies for easy learning of this 5 thousand year old language.

Who knows? With our ingenuity, foreigners wishing to learn Chinese these days with ease can then come to Singapore and contribute to Singapore’s earnings as well.

Contrary to what he said,
me, my siblings and my friends all speak fluent English and Mandarin.
I cannot understand why he said that.

Andrew Chuah

“Hongkis who have got rid of Mandarin early this year and now focus on English ie both spoken and written and they have big balls to do this despite Hongkong being a Special Administrative Region.”

No that is not true. I don’t belive you ahve been to HK of late or at all. My sister married a Hong Konger. I’m a frequent traveller to HK.
Putonghua (Chianese) is taught in almost all schools now. Kiasu parents are sending their children for such tuition. Even their singers like Andy, Arron, etc., are singing in Mandarin as well. Even their once only Cantonese TV programmes have begun to incorporate the Mandarin element in compering, singing, etc. Slowly HK is making the inevitable shift for what? Survival.

You must be darn stupid to ignore the 1.3 billion job market and opportunites right at your doorstep? Hong Kong has no choice. It can’t dictate. It has to follow the tide to survive and not go against it.

We don’t need a primary schoolboy to tell us this.

MM Lee said : nobody can master two languages at the same level, if (you think )you can, you are deceiving yourself. But, i think he is deceiving himself, he should study from Australia PM before he say that, there are still a lot of e.g.

I remembered some years back ,I read an article in the MSM where someone claim that a normal person can master or capable of speaking more than 5 or 6 languages or something to that effect.It had somehow motivated me to learn more languages.I am thankful to him.

It’s funny how so much of the media needs SM Lee’s permission to say he’s wrong. Suddenly everyone is going, of course you’re right, MM Lee, you’re wrong.

trying to earn cheap sympathy votes, LKY.

sad state of affairs

“Learning Chinese in a fun way” is just an excuse.
If u do not want to learn, so be it.

How can u make learning more fun than computer games?
Impossible!!!
I have tried, and had given up.

Nowadays the Chinese stanadrd is so low. If u want to learn, and u are prepared to put in a little bit of effort, it is so easy to score “A”.

It is so easy until the “A” also got no value.

This hav been proven by many students.

If you have mastered 2 languages, think of those people brought up by english educated people and have spent their whole lives surrounded in the society which speaks english at work and in school, think about how difficult it is for them to pick up a second language without it being appealing.

So before you go around claiming many people have mastered 2 languages, think about the increasing amount of people who are now suffering from the system of the past.

Nowdays, many things sound AMBIGUOUS in my interpretation.

What is the scientific behind the believe that no one can master?

The only way to learn languages is through immersion. If you grow up ard people speaking foreign languages, you will pick it up faster. Likewise, exposed to Singlish, speak Slnglish,. Our mistake is we did not fix the basic foundation for English and try to impose 2 different languages from a young age, thereby resulting in confusion and neither languages being mastered proficiently. It will take another generation to undo the damage, not just for Chinese but English as well. By then the mainland Chinese/Koreans/Japanese will beat us by leaps and bounds, S’poreans can then cursed the old man for his stubborness and all those balls lickers who did not tell him he is naked.

I wrote a long blog post on this article. If you like to read my views on why I think MM Lee got it wrong, please visit
http://urbanrant.blogspot.com/2009/11/why-i-think-mm-lee-is-wrong-about.html

or

http://bit.ly/1qZBz1

Since the PAP government is totalitarian in nature, the mistakes made by the PAP government is dire and its consequences is far reaching because it affects many people. The “bi-lingual” policy is such an example. I am sure there is more than one way to learn a language. “fun-way”, rigorous methods, “watch TV way”, etc.

Another example is the the “stop at two”, makes Singapore having one of the lowest birth-rate in the world.

The govt. through the EDB determines what industries to support. At one time it was wafer fab factories, but this was a big failure. S’pore is governed much like a Marxist country with a planned economy. Small and medium enterprises (SME) can hardly survive because the PAP govenment have acquired much land and made them very expensive.

The PAP government is getting far too big and is dominated by one man and his familee. Their policies have not been working e.g. importing cheap labour, selling Singapore citizenship at a cheap price, losing billions of $$$$ from the foreign reserves.

What we badly need is competition in the political arena. Vote in more opposition MP’s

Singaporeans especially the young ought to know that LKY also destroyed a major part of Singapore which is Chinese. Like the old boys associations of Chinese Middle School like Chung Cheng. Like the Chinese clan, musical and cultural associations.Like Nantah. All for what ? LKY suspected them of being controlled by leftish elements and hence they must be abolished or infiltrated and change. So it is kind of ironic that LKY is now sucking up so dearly to the mainland Communist Chinese. When I see LKY wearing the old styled chinese jacket, I could not stop myself laughing. If he cannot oppressed to stay on top, he has the ability to change his colour to do so.

the main object to promoted chinese language by Mr Lee is more a polictical motive to win the heart of chinese educated voter in the early 80s.

For Singaporean, the working language is English.Chinese is just a language for casual conversations.

Not saying that the “admission of mistake” is of any use, the point about the difficulty of mastering two or more languages up to the same level is not wrong. It is the part about nobody being able to do it that is wrong.

The truth is, it takes a lot of hard work and dedication to “master” even just one language. Not everyone can be writers or speech makers. You don’t expect everybody to be a Maths/Arts/Sports whiz, so how can it be that everybody is a Language whiz?

MM Lee had pushed through, with a sledgehammer, campaigns on language education and eugenic population policies (smart parents = smart kids), despite being non-expert in these fields. I wish he’d used a lighter touch on things he had little technical expertise about.

Where were our investigative journalists in the ST? In the past two decades there have been more articles on how our bilingual policy was a success and a model for others, how Mr Lee is praiseworthy for his foresight in this matter. What a slap in the face this admission must be.

People learn different languages in different ways, at different speeds. Theories abound relating this learning to the two hemispheres of the brain. Also to the environment, education techniques, the language itself, etc. Some people learn roman-alphabetical languages better than ideographic ones. Some learn better through rote, others through use. The jury is still out.

To say now that it cannot be done, in such an absolute way, is probably as wrong as thinking that it can absolutely be done, in the past. Maybe I am deceiving myself, as advised – hallucinating, seeing polyglots in our midst.

It is puzzling that he began by saying “We started the wrong way” and then went on to conclude that “Nobody can master two languages at the same level.” Is it impossible , or did he go about it the wrong way ?

Which is it?

To lose a language is also to get shut out from the wisdom and knowledge and culture embedded in that language. It is not merely a 40 year-long experiment with a bunch of chimps and bananas.

The point to note is not that he was wrong. Everyone makes mistakes. The lesson to learn is that finesse, and not brute force, is sometimes required get something done. They should at the very least be consultative in the implementation of these light-touch policies, unless they are positioned to suffer their consequences with us. And a consultative government is one where the people have a real and effective “NO” button to push, to stop the government from doing what they do not want.

58) Political SalesMaN on November 18th, 2009 6.18 pm ,

i hv the same thing u mentioned but not sure whether is real. another thing, if he is hainanese, that’s confirmed why Marboro Tan is relative to him. well, who knows?

19/11/09

Hi Jackie-Good to hear from you, I go to Hongkong very frequently and last trip was in Sep09 and will be going month end as I am working for a boutique advisory company and deals with big banks there and I have many classmates there. Tell me what so good about Mandarin-all crap and you take a good look in Southern China, majority speak Cantonese. Let us look at a much bigger picture (the Chinese are speaking more English than us Singaporeans today).

Regards
Andrew Chuah

I subscribe to Starhub’s TVBJ Contonese paid channel.
Today, the HK channel has begun to incorporate Mandarin elements like CCTV programmes, Mandarin compereing, conversations, fashion shows, etc.
I do believe the tide is changing and HK people are the quickest to seize on change and survive.

Dear Mr Andrew,

I can’t sit still when I also have been to HK. You’ve not been completely truthful.

Readers themselves shd go to HK today and try speaking Mandarin to the waitresses or sales staff there. I tell you they are adept at BOTH Cantonese and Mandarin (for many English as well cos HK’s legacy being a British colony once). Why? Because Mandarin is taught in the schools today.

How can HK disregard the MILLIONS of mainland tourists that cross over to gamble (Macau), shop, eat, etc., in HK monthly.

It just doesn’t make $$$ sense. Does it?

Does he really regret, after over 40 years?

Mandarin? Cantonese?

STOP! THINK!

All Chinese dialects share a COMMON WRITTEN SCRIPT.

Who? The great unifier Emperor Shih Huang Ti. Remember him? The Yellow Emperor.

In fact it’s so easy for the Hong Kong people to make the switch. Why?

Half the battle is already won.

You people out there really stupid.

I tell you.

At 98 mike. LKY & Mah Bow Tan ancestor are in the same Hainanese county in China.
Information that LKY origin is in Indonesia. The father Pass Away Peacefully (PAP) when he was young. Mother remarried to Lee Chin Koon in Malacca.

19/11/09

Hi James HK Leong

I am truthful. The HK tvs have advertisments on promoting the Speaking of English by Hongkong commoners. Hongkis are very proud people and continue using Cantonese even Hongkong has been reverted back to China and sam with Macau.

Regards
Andrew Chuah

So, my anti-Chinese Singaporean Chinese Mr Andrew, what are you trying to prove? That it’s ok to forget about learning and using Chinese? What’s the crap about dumping your own mother? Yes, Chinese language is putonghua. Dialects connect we Chinese to our roots. Simply put it, one is our mother, the other is our grandmother. So, which one you wanna dump? Because they are old and have less “economic” value?

My point is that after years of independence, most Chinese Singaporeans have lost touch with their roots. If fact, where can you find an Asian Chinese (except Indonesian Chinese from Suharto’s period) so proudly acknowledge that he/ she can’t utter a word of Chinese. And it will be similarly demeaning and disastrous if this happens to a Malay or Indian. I would reckon that more and more young Chinese Singaporeans are like headless flies, unwisely snobbish and yet direction-less.

One just needs to look at some advanced nations to know that they have citizens who are proud of being who they are, their languages, cultures, and traditions. Japanese, French, Germans etc. And I’m not saying that these nationals cannot utter a word of English. English to them is just another medium of communication, but they will not “dump” their own language because statistically more people are using English to communicate. English can never undermine the status and importance of their own languages, which make them stand out from the rest of the world.

Uniquely Singapore? Our singlish, our “bananas” or what?

I do not think insistence on bilingualism was wrong. I think the whole issue is in terms of execution i.e. the wrong teaching methods were used. We can get to a point where language mastery means reaching a level where we do not feel unduly strained, when engaged even in foreign situations. The first direction is to make sure that the younger generation enjoys the language more than trying to pass exams.

MM Lee: My insistence on bilingualism was wrong

What is he trying to tell us? That we should not comply with everything he says from now on?

100% mistake or not, quite subjective.

But i dare to say half of his effort is to soften the perception that Singaporeans have on PAP policymakers. Election date is nearer with each passing day, so he has to do it not just for himself, but for his son.

Here is an appropriate Chinese idiom which i learnt in the 70’s ….Yi Jian Shuan Diao (One arrow kills Two Birds) ;-)

Apologies aside, I would like to invite the MM to invoke his memory a little further back and ask what and how he is going to repay the debt of my grandparents’ generation who followed his clarion call and made sacrfices by allowing themselves to be resettled, to start lives anew in the ‘accidental’ nation-state?

Notwithstanding the jubilation over the fact that he admitted to a wrong,
i think most people agree that being bilingual is a good thing.

Hi Andrew Chuah,

You have only scratched the surface of HK. James and Jackie on the other hand portrayed quite an accurate picture of the ground sentiment of HK at large.

I have been living and working in HK for the past 11 years. Yes, Cantonese is still being the spoken language here but China being part of HK backbone and the CPC had been providing economical stimulus policies to support HK business at large. This is undeniable and felt throughout HK albeit a minority still thinks they can survive without China intervention. You said you deal with major banks here and yet you ignore the CEPA, QDII, RMB settlement policies and others that had impacted the HK market (on the good side).

And yes, you are right to say that HK public TV advertisement had been promoting the speak proper English campaign (because they too realized using Cantonese as the main language to teach in school had depleted HK people’s ability to speak proper English like older generation of HK people used to be, likewise, they are doing the same for Mandarin to keep pace with China’s progress. HK people are pragmatist at large if not more so than today’s Singaporean. They knew better to go with the flow. You need not have to master the language; just speak the language that others (particularly the native speakers) can understand you. Do not confuse it with written language though.

Give it a second thought; it is very bewildering for some posters here to say that speaking only English (not that Singapore English is easily understood by outsiders) will get your business deal going in China. I happened to know a few White and Black American who spoke perfect Beijing Mandarin; if without a face, you would never ever thought these are black and white American. And yes, it is true too that Chinese are beginning to speak more English these days albeit there are 55 ethnic groups in China. I also happened to know a few Chinese who speaks fluent Russian and other languages other than Mandarin. I wonder why?

Personally, I would think speaking more languages gives you the edge to better understand other people whether in business or just a friendly conversation at large. Just that we have to do it at our own pace. It is a matter of personal interest. There are people who can speak multiple languages fluently without much problem. Likewise, there are those who cannot do the same. This is part and parcel of life that we had to accept. That is what makes us all (individuals) so unique.

Sincerely,

Observer (SG-HK)

I too think that being a bilingual, trilingual, and even better, multilingual is a good thing. It is not something that is lightly attained.

His actual mistake, I feel, is that he turned extra languages from an asset, into an obstacle. (By insisting in people who might already be struggling with one language, but excelling in other areas, to pass another language to go ahead with their education in those other areas.)

Even if Chinese teachers had refused to teach Mandarin in English, it’s fine. But that doesn’t mean they couldn’t have altered teaching methods i.e teach students how to speak Mandarin first rather than force them to learn how to write it simultaneously. Maybe they did speak out, but were hushed by our dearest MM Lee. In the name of what? Economic advancement? As part of efforts to impress and thus gain more votes from the Mandarin speaking Chinese with our gung-ho bilingual policy? Oh wait…the majority of the Chinese population back then spoke in dialects…hohoho.

Also, who says it isn’t possible to master two languages equally well? Are we really that incapable? It’s only gonna be a matter of time before our friends overseas hear this and before Singapore becomes their laughing stock. You don’t have to go far. Letting our Chinese friends across the causeway (who have mastered English, Malay and Mandarin equally well) hear it would be enough. Ha ha ha.

Can we get a refund? Since the MM has admitted that he wasn’t as far-sighted as the salary we have been paying him, then it is only right that he returns it. Who was it who said that when you pay peanuts you get monkeys? So, what happened?

20/11/09

Hi Sponge Box & Observer (SG-HK)-Good to hear from both of you. What I wrote is strictly in Singapore context ie we must not be mislead by such a myth ie China has 1.2billion population and as Singaporean Chinese, we must learn Mandarin at all costs to take this opportunityy which is nonsense (how many of us can really go to China to work, do business-open factories and trade or study, less than 2% and there are better places than China). Yes I go to Hongkong and China since 1979 (very frequently yearly and this year alone, I went 5 times and going again month end and I work for a boutique advisory company and I deal with big banks there and I use English and Cantonese, even since my student days there). My sailent point is in the Singapore context ie majority our young Singaporean Chinese are now unable to speak their respective dialects ie Hokkien, Cantonese, Teochew, Khek, Hakka and others which are very rich in our traditions and cultures (these are embeded in dialects even Chinese operas). The Hongkis always use Cantonese unless they have no choice even my student days right till now (I always asked these senior bankers whom I am dealing “you speak mandarin-answer no unless no choice, and in my case, I have refused to speak Mandarin and always use my dialect ie Hokkien and Cantonese). Time to bring back the various Chinese dialects in Singapore and hennce making Singapore more colorful and vibrant again.

*stimuluses mentioned are not relevant in this topic.
Regards
Andrew Chuah

TO ALL MY CHINESE FRIENDS,

i am an indian, i learn and mastered simple english by reading,
i read every topic in the newspaper, that’s where i get the knowledge.
let it be medicine/law/politics and the forum collum, read every thing.
this really helps me in my daily work. i can communicate and e-mail well.
and always pay special attention to speeches by,
MM LEE / PRIME MINISTER LEE / LAW MINISTER SHUNMUGARETNAM/
FINANCE MINISTER THARMASHUNMUGARETNAM/ DR. WEI LING/
MR. TONY TAN / MR. DANABALAN / MRS. HO CHING / MR. JAYAKUMAR/
MR. DEVINDAR SINGH.

as for children read english and chinese story books, this must start
at a nursery level.

it’s tough to master two language, but believe me reading is the magic answer.
always make sure your children have chinese and english story books.
my very best to my chinese friends

I’d like to put the discussion of the Chinese language in perspective.

Firstly, you need to understand the historical evolution of what we now called “Mandarin”.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_language

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Standard_Mandarin

So for those who argued that Mandarin is our “mother tongue”. Sorry, you are wrong. Mandarin is the mother tongue of those who happened to be in the northern area or if they are mandarins (i.e. govt officials). Those from the south spoke a different category of languages. The last I checked, most of Chinese in Singapore have ancestors that came from the south.

Therefore, we can only conclude that learning of Mandarin is purely an economic decision, as it should be with other languages like English.

Speaking fluently in dialects with the mother tongue is no big deal lol. Anyone can become expert.

But speaking english with mandarin .fluently.. *ahem* It is oh well impossible. How many dare to talk fast in english with the english speaking ppl or even talk fast with mandarin chinese? I can tell you…you wont understand what they are talking about, cos they r speaking like machine guns lol.

Only continuous exposure with a native speaking people will make a person fluently. Honestly speaking, i seen many so call fluent english chinese speakers…their english sux big time yet they thought that they are very good in it lol.

Hi Andrew,

I feel the need to rebut. Who’s stopping us all to speak dialects at home? Such are the attitude of SIngaporean like you. It is so easy to play the blame game. Did this gov stop you from speaking dialect with each other (not that I am in support of this gov many policies)? Why the need for you to speak Cantonese when you are in Hong Kong other than English? I bet if those bankers that you are dealing with speaks putonghua, I wonder what will you do. Not many Singaporeans had the privilege like you do. Do not forget, HK is not made up of senior bankers. Go talk to younger generation of HK people and stop caling Hk people Hkies (this is outright disrespectful).

As for Singaporeans at large; we are a big melting pot with various ethnic groups. How the younger generation tackle languages is not based solely on a single speak mandarin policy; parents, relatives and friends do play a role and are partly the cause of the lost of used of dialects in everday conversation. This has got nothing to do with whether how many percentage of Singaporeans will venture to China to do business. What is so disadvantage to speak another language like Mandarin other than Singlish?

May be I am one of the lucky few. My relatives, friends and their younger siblings did not forget their roots despite this mandatory speak mandarin policy. And they are at ease with conversational Mandarin.I am sure many Singaporeans did not just blindly follow what the gov mandates. If you are parent or relative of the young, ask yourself this question, why didn’t you upheld the rich dialect culture? Why didn’t you continue to nurture your younger siblings or relatives to speak their mother tongue? Isn’t there dialect association groups in Singapore? The dialect culture in Singapore is still alive and well. You said in your previous post, what’s so great about speaking Mandarin? For Singaporean Chinese, you know where your roots are don’t you? Why did you choose to learn English to begin with if you so strongly defend the rich dialect culture? Do not forget, English is not Singapore native language either. Like it or not, Singapore official language is still BAHASA MELAYU!

SIncerely,

Observer (SG-HK)

[i]MM Lee: My insistence on bilingualism was wrong
Wednesday, 18 November 2009, 10:22 am | 2,692 views
“Successive generations of students paid a heavy price, because of my ignorance, by my insistence on bilingualism.”

MM Lee Kuan Yew[/i]

and?
you still don’t feel shy to retire and resign? whah koah! liked that also can get away..than again he is indeed the FATHER of the the prime minister
don’t make any MISTAKES about it…

I wonder what is the standard of singapore’s A- Level grads who took Chinese huh?

These should be considered to have mastered both languages right?
If not , what is standard of A Level chinese?
If so, does this contradict Lee’s assumption? or is that an aspiration?

Dear MM Lee,

How many more wrongs or mistakes must you realise before you willingly step down completely from any post whether in the Cabinet of out of the Cabinet?

Don’t you think it is time that you stop messing around with the lives of common Singaporeans who cannot even voice their dissent or make any protest?

Don’t you think that it is time for your son, the PM, and other younger ministers to make assessments, arrive at decisions and forumulate policies on their own without any more interference from you and the remnants of old guards like SM Goh, SM Jayakuma and Mr Tony Tan?

Don’t you think that it is time that you vacate the Istana so that the President of Singapore can fully make use of it without your unnecessary presence?

Don’t you think that it is time for you to vacate your seat of Tanjong Pagar Constituency so that younger people can have a chance to stand for election there?

Don’t you think that it is better to totally leave the affairs of the state to the younger people in the interest of the country instead of in your own desire to ensure things to be done the way you want them to be?

For the future of the younger generations, we sincere urge you to give up power completely and retire fully and gracefully so that your legacy can be maintained without any blemish.

Please take heart that we all appreciate and are grateful for what you have done for the country. However, we wish that you can spend the remainder of your life to simply enjoy yourself without a care for whatever that happens or will happen to Singapore.

Please do not worry too much. Singapore is in good hands. Without you around, life will still go on and Singapore will still be there. New leaders with vision and capabilities will sprout and bloom as sure as the sun will rise in the east.

We wish you all the best, good health and at ease with the world for the remaining part of you long life.

Yours faithfully,

Just A Few Fellow Old Men to Another.

Is LKY the longest employed civil servant in the world?

TOC Editor,

Sorry for the double postings. Please delete the first one, i.e. post 123, as it has more typo errors.

Look at our inter-schools mandarin speaking debate, our top students cannot hold well in their fort without one PRC speaking in reference of the chinese thousands years history, cultures, wisdoms, idioms etc.

Not even our Media Corp local comperes can be up the mark, till date except only guo liang or quan yifeng to host the other shows…….. real sad……. can our $million education minister care to comment…..why …… looking back at the education policies implemented……and so call every speak mandarin campaigns…….why

last but not least, how many of our $million chinese cabinet ministers and mps are able to…… so to speak fluently……understand the real chinese history, languages, cultures and arts etc …with the provincial governors and central government… ..sad

please don’t keep exhumed our ancestors graves, it like keep chopping the roots of the trees, leaving no souls in this ‘city’ – clsssic says. As we the citizens can see now.

#124 Mentoring the mentor.

Bravo, Bravo, Bravo! I hope our MM Lee read this piece of gem by you. Cannot understand an intellectual man like MM can be so stupid not to know his own destiny. No one can outlive his/her intelligence. Not even God.

Sad sad, a case of unable to let go and clinging on the last straw that will sooner break the camel’s back. Please Mr Smart (MM) exit gracefully and remain a legacy of S’pore’s history.

To: Leesjuanpat;

hi, You made a kind and good call to MM Lee #128.

However, it is far too late. MM Lee will leave a legacy behind that’s for sure, but it will be a stinky one. Many netizens(citizens) claimed they are waiting to pee on his grave and do not be surprised if rotten eggs are plentiful on it(tomb) too.

Such is the legacy of a famous man.

Lamentable

patriot

@119) Oh Holy on November 20th, 2009 4.41 pm

I disagree. Talking fast does not equate to fluency with the language. The fastest talker of English are in fact Indians, and some, even the native speakers of English, may have difficulty understanding them.

Personally, I have spoken clear, crisp English to, say Americans and Mandarins to PRC Chinese and both groups have no difficulty in understanding me.

Remember, language ability goes beyond just knowing the proper pronunciation and grammar. You need to also know some local lingo.

For e.g., if to talk to Americans, they do not understand the following words : lorry, queue (as in, “is this the queue?”), boot (as in car boot), soapbox, postbox and a myriad of other “British” words.

Similar, the schism between Taiwanese Chinese and PRC Chinese also meant some terms are different. Computers to the Taiwanese is “electric brain” while to the PRCs is “calculating machine”.

So, yes, we can speak perfectly standard English and Chinese but it would still make us “outsider” to the other nationalities. Much like foreigners can tag a “lah” or “lor” behind their English and we will still know they cannot speak “proper” Singlish.

hmm…since when did this country’s “bilingual” policy expect students to “master two languages at the same level?” *curious*

Nothing wrong with bilingual policy. If only there were many levels and styles to accommodate different capabilities of students. Mistake was in flip flopping and not meeting individual needs. Make no a mistake – bilingualism was not at fault.

consequences of old fart’s bilingual policy pales in comparison to ISA persecution, kangaroo prosecution, nepotism, cronyism, systemic brainwashing,
self serving governance, sham parliament representation…..

He made a mistake and admits it. Well Done, Sir. We all love and salute you and your leadership.

PAP all the way. Crush those opposition clowns.

MM realized that he is wrong for some of his grand children can’t master mandarin, one example is a grandson who studied in oxford being mentioned by pro PAP ST as a top student in Oxford, this young Lee is studying ;law, a vocal and sharp tongued young man , he scored all staight As in his GCE A and failed his Chinese at F8.

So, nobody can master two languages, but is that true ? let’s see how many young Singaprean who can speak 3 languages including one non-english european language and.or Japanese.

If MM Lee is right, what about the rationale of banning dialects ( he said to ban dialects as dialects have no written forms and would be beaten by english, resulting in a new generation of non asian values….)

So, let;s say we should stop bilingual policies or slacken it, ten we can also bring back dialects with same reasoning ( after all, without dialects, Singaporean including his grandchildrens can’t master two languages !! )

He is wrong in MANY policies, inmcluding STOP at TWO…. the remedy , rich FT snatched up all near town properties oushing Sinagporean to live at new towns, far from city.

Let’s ask, why should we protect this nation anymore !?
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Let’ see how this de-emphaszing bilingualism by MM Lee would help his grand children snatch up key position in GLC, GIC, civil servant key posts by waivering the need to pass two langauges in their academic records.

whatver he and LHL do, there is a deeper motive sthan what the MSM carried in the press.

Remember, MM also said it is time to consider selective dual citizenships ? is that because some pappies want to migrate to down-under yet keep one foot in this island to safe guard their assets and influences ? think about it, news may break out soon.

Does it really work to learn Chinese in another language such as English? i doubt so.
By doing so students will be missing out all the cultures and heritages of the language!
I feel that learning a language in one’s native tongue can only act as a introductory tool, as for deeper learning of the language, it should be taught and learnt in its original language. Since students in primary school are young enough to accept a new form of language in their lives. TY

Now the current trend seem to be pushing of Mandarin until its at the same level as English ie if you want to succeed in work you better know Chinese. Look at the ads etc. Now it seems that a foreigner from China has a better chance of landing a good job compared to a minority S’porean. Your policy MM are pissing off the non-Chinese Singaporeans and one of these days…something will come to a boil…mark my words..

i mean their policies  cannot be perfect all the time. There could be flaws. alas, where is the opposition to bring to attention their flaws, if any?

so, the election this june or not?