Monday, November 16, 2009 23:35
New immigrants’ loyalty to S’pore – SM Goh’s amazing conclusion
In Guest Writers, Main Stories, Top Story • 5,251 views • 102 Comments
Dr Wong Wee Nam
At a grassroots event recently, Senior Minister Goh Chok Tong confidently declared that “new immigrants to Singapore can become Singaporeans in outlook and loyalty within a generation.”
He apparently reached this amazing conclusion after a visit to his ancestral village in Wuling in China’s Fujian province and also how, at a recent Deepavali event, he had found that several young children of permanent residents from India could easily pass off as Singaporeans.
How he could have come to his conclusion based on these two set of factors escapes me.
First of all, young children all over the world do not behave differently from one another. Put a group of young children together and they will soon play their own games oblivious of their colour or nationality. However, this does not mean they will all grow up to be Singaporeans in outlook and loyalty.
Secondly, Mr Goh might have felt very Singaporean when he visited his ancestral village. This does not mean the children of the new immigrants will, in future, feel the way he did.
The next generation
The next generation of these new migrants will not think and feel the same way as this generation of Singaporeans.
This is because the fathers and forefathers of the present generation, of older Singaporeans, including the Senior Minister, had migrated to Singapore under different circumstances. They were political and economic “refugees”. Many did not have a choice. They came as teenagers to escape war, hunger and poverty and once they established their roots here, there was no turning back.
Those who came from China then could not go back at all. Neither could they bring their children back for visits even if they could afford and wanted to. Because of this, the ties were cut and over time memories of their homeland became very faint. It was only natural then that the children of these people do not know of any motherland other than Singapore. They, especially the English- educated, probably have more attachment to England than China.
The present new migrants from China are different. They came as adults and are usually better educated. They have not run away from a country that is a basket case but chose to come here to improve themselves and the lives of their children. To a lot of them, a Singapore passport is a stepping stone to better things. They are not going to cut off any emotional ties with the country they had come from, not when it is growing bigger and bigger in economic and political stature every day. It’s really no contest between a giant red mass and a little red dot.
At the back of the Chinese migrant’s mind is an idiom that is ingrained in them when young: 衣锦还乡。This means: “To go back to one’s old home in silken robes.”
The children of these new migrants are not going to be like Goh Chok Tong. They are certainly not going to sever their cultural, emotional and ancestral ties with China. How could they? Unlike Goh Chok Tong, a lot of them can and will go back to visit their relatives regularly. Some even go back during the school vacations for immersion. Like their migrant parents, they will watch CCTV and Phoenix stations as much or even more than channels 8 and 5.
Is it then any surprise to see Zhang Yuanyuan, a Singapore permanent resident, taking part in a national day parade, waving the Chinese flag and feeling very proud to be a Chinese on China’s National Day. Don’t be surprised to see more Chinese flags displayed in HDB blocks on 1st October in future. The new Indian migrants and their children are also unlike the Senior Minister. They are still likely to visit their ancestral homes on a regular basis and are likely to be as Indian as they are Singaporeans. Just as Singaporeans cheered Liverpool when they played Singapore, a lot of these new migrants are likely to cheer the Indian national hockey team when they play Singapore.
Whither Singapore?
I, therefore, do not share Mr Goh’s optimism about loyalty. If our policy does not change, the problem is likely to be compounded. In thirty years time, Singaporeans are going to be a minority in their own country and in forty years time, they will form about 25% to 30% of the population here.
In the same speech, the Senior Minister also said, “Without PRs and new citizens, Singapore will go the way of the dinosaurs.” Imagine an England that is three-quarter Chinese and a Japan that is three quarter Polynesian. Both the English and the Japanese will go the way of the dinosaurs.
According to Socrates, “Patriotism does not require one to agree with everything that his country does and would actually promote analytical questioning in a quest to make the country the best it possibly can be.”
In other words, to have patriotism, there must be a devotion to humanity and beneficence. There must be an individual responsibility to fellow citizens. Without provision for charity, without the right to criticize injustice or to denounce excessive laws and without the spontaneous participation of people in the affairs of the country, there can be no patriotism.
Many years of authoritarian-style government have reduced Singaporeans into an apathetic lot and made them feel like guests in a hotel. In years to come, with hordes of foreigners coming in to depress their wages or even displace them at the workplace and reduce them to second-class citizens, how much more loyalty can we expect from local-bred Singaporeans, let alone migrants?
It would have been different if Singaporeans had been allowed to developed their patriotism and let this patriotism rub off onto a slow influx of migrants. Then come 2040, we would not have a population that is made up of Singapore citizens but largely owing emotional allegiance to another country.
As it stands, in 2040, when a minister visits his ancestral village in China, he is not going to be as detached as the Senior Minister. The cultural, social, emotional and ancestral ties will be so much stronger. He would feel not so much like a visiting Singapore leader but, psychologically, rather like a municipal officer衣锦还乡going back to one’s old home in silken robes.
Alas, perhaps it is just a historical cycle that Singapore has to go the way of Temasek.
Read SM Goh’s speech here.
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102 Comments
nocityforoldmen
Yamamoto
Lately, it is my perception alone, but what our DOMG (Dear Old Man Group) has been saying are getting hollower….
New immigrants loyal to Singapore? PROOF IT!
Ask all male new immigrants to serve reservist for 10 cycle like all male Singaporeans. No need to be military. Civil Defense or Police also can. See how many “so called loyal new immigrants” leave the country.
WAKE UP! WAKE UP! Stop dreaming! You expect them to be loyal? Stop lying to yourself. Instead of wasting your time on new immigrants, why not try treat your OWN CITIZEN better? At least they are still loyal to the country for now.
FaceTheFact
I heard a local primary 3 student complaining the weird behavior of china/india nationality classmate. I also heard secondary school student wondering why they need to serve army while their “new immigrants” classmate don’t have to.
I don’t know will these “new immigrants” loyal to our nation but I am pretty sure a lot of local Sg student are less loyal to our nation comparing to the old days.
very hsien
LHL said most Malays support pap.
I believe what he said as he should have all the figures.
It puzzles me as I thought the Malay have more reasons to be angry as most new immigrants are from China and India.
I hope the Malays will stand together with indigenous Chinese and Indians in the coming GE to send a strong message to the pap:
STOP THE IRRESPONSIBLE IMMIGRATION POLICY NOW!
samanthaLoh
honestly, don’t expect much from a man whose wife thinks that $600K is peanuts, and whose family friend is a charity cheat !
noiseMaker
@very hsien- the malays are voting for PAP because they are damn happy with the PAP’s open door policy.
For once, they are enjoying seeing Chinese and Indian being marginalized instead of them Malay being marginalized as in the past.
When the Malay goes for job interview, cannot speak Chinese, not selected. This time round Chinese goes for job interview, not foreigner, not selected. LOL.
very hsien
noiseMaker,
Wouldn’t it be more fun to hammer the PAP in the next GE and make them pay the price for being greedy and arrogant?
nonsense
Vampires need to feed constantly and thus need to “catch new victims” into the Grand Castle Palace to breed new human cattle for food. Old Singaporeans all dried up, no more blood to suck. Simple math. Every drop counts…wahahaha!
Count Bloodsucker. >:E~
Peanut Citizen
I think, with due respect, SM Goh is out of his mind. Citizen’s loyalty is a matter closely linked to our national security and survival. How can he be so careless?.
I think his age must be catching up and he simply cannot think rationally and logically any more. His visions are blurred since his promise for a “Swiss Standard of Living” has never materialised during his tenure of 14 years as our PM.
Perhaps, he is trying too hard to justify his easy multi-million dollars pay and bonuses?
Perhaps, he is feeling bored being isolated high up in his own towering enclave without most of his close “kakis” who have been dislocated or purged?
Perhaps, he is trying to make amends for his past failures by saying nice things?
But saying nice things can be dangerous because they may lead all of us astray once more, like what he did by promising us the “Swiss Standard of Living” which not only never materialise but has instead led us to an “Indonesian Standard of Living” (with the free-fall influx of foreigners to take away 7 out of 10 jobs created for us).
I strongly believe that he should rightly call it a day and enjoy playing catching with his grand children, or visiting his quitter daughter in England, or spend more time with his “peanut” wife, instead of continuing to waste taxpayers’ money by clinging to the unjustifiable and undeserved obscene multi-million dollars world highest pay and be thought of as a free-loader by future generations.
X
My parents migrated from malaysia. I was given a choice to choose a Malaysian passport instead of a SIngaporean one, and with that means the added liability of doing 2.5 years of National Service. needless to say, I chose Singapore and my loyalty for her will never waver.
Understand this article seems to target more on Chinese migrants but I think many of the commentators here are too quick to jump onto the bandwagon and engage in a one-sided argument.
just to add, i have met first-gen chinese migrants throughout my life here in Singapore and I daresay many of them are fiercely loyal to Singapore. Unlike some of the so called local born.
gemami
Thank you Dr Wong for sharing your comments. I was hopeful that TOC would not have missed what the good old tortoise was reported to have said. My first impression when I read the news report was exactly like Dr Wong’s – unbelievable. It escaped me too that the old tortoise could have concluded the way he did.
I have been saying all along that supporters of the PAP’s immigration policy are wrong to conclude that since we are children of a migrant lineage, we ought to be as welcoming of the new migrants. It is wrong because, even as we cannot change the fact that we are children of migrants, there is a difference between the migrants of a generation gone by and the migrants that are coming in today. Dr Wong has brought the point across very nicely.
Our citizenship, and our new identity as Singaporeans, have been earned by the blood, sweat and tears of our parents, and of our own. Some have paid for it with their lives even, yes, those who came here, struggled to set up their families and left this world before they could see the fruits of their labour. Those whose children had died while learning to defend their new home and country. We have earned our new identity, our new home and our new country.
What then do you think a generation like ours will do when convenient-dwellers seek to take over our land, our jobs, our homes and our country – not to call their own but to use it as a stepping stone to a brighter future for themselves – at our expense?
Talk about living within glass walls. I believe the old tortoise is not only surrounded by glass walls but his glass walls are covered with bank notes too. His views are as distant as the miles between Singapore and China; between Singaporeans and the government.
gemami
“…many of them are fiercely loyal to Singapore. Unlike some of the so called local born…” : X.
You need to read the article once again, and read it more carefully. You need to understand the reason that many of the early migrants were stuck in this new and foreign land, and how their familial ties became broken over time. Singapore became their new hope, their future and their children’s future. In the writer’s own word, “no turning back”.
Because there was no turning back, it became a make-or-break situation for them. That’s the reason why they toiled hard, shedding blood, and sacrifice their lives for their children. What do you think this generation of migrants would say today should they still be alive to see the current influx of opportunity-grabbers pretending to be new and loyal citizens of a land they hardly know anything about?
This government is not only welcoming them with open arms without the slightest thought toward this end, but are also treating them with a standard that is not accorded even to its locally-bred citizens. It is allowing them to form enclaves while the natives are kept separated. It is allowing them to use their own languages while the Singaporean has to learn and master a second language. Primary school students are now made to take a third language, albeit at a conversational level.
Consider some of these points, Mr X and you will see quite clearly the shattered dreams and broken trust – are the doing of this regime that has grown too comfortable for anybody’s good.
blackfeline
I think he’s implying the new immigrants are loyal to him and his team of useless goons! Has he got no shame at all?
You sure or NOT
MM asked Obama to contain China and then our internal policies are to welcome new migrants?
From our experience, it is 2 generation or 3 before the roots sink. I am not sure why they try to use media and excuses for almost anything. Remember, they say, there is no correlation between oil prices and electricity? And then they say, oil prices go up, electricity has to go up. And then the truth is our electricity mainly from natural gases. Then we have the cheap slogan to ask for low pay. Then its not low pay but faster and better. We have town councils losing millions through gambling and then we were told it is a small fraction.
I am not sure, everything has a response from them, they would do media and news to tell us it is good for us.
David
As usual, a lazy conclusion-make-to -believe stunt from PAP. We have heard about it, we have heard it everyday, we have 133th ST colored it and blow the trumpet out of proportions. A sign election is coming, be prepared and cast your vote to anyone but pap.
Hum
That is his opinion. But what about the rest 3 million citizen’s opinions? Some may be scholars, doctors , professors, geniuses? What if their opinions differ than his?
And what is the scientific evidence to prove beyond reasonable doubt about loyalty?
Can anything read conclusively what is in the mind?
I think the sun will rise from the northeast tomorrow.
The image of Singaporeans is constantly evolving since it started as a small fishing village. The character of our great grandparents, grandparents, parents, and our generation will be very different from future generation.
As for loyalty, I’m not even sure if you can count on local born Singaproeans to be absolutely loyal, much less can you expect of foreigners. But it would not be fair to rule out the possibility that immigrants and their children would not develop loyalty. Some really prefer living in Singapore than in China, India, USA or Europe. That’s why they chose to settle in Singapore.
Improvement in communications would bind migrants to their origins, unlike in the past when it takes a month of steamer ship to visit the motherland. Technology is double edged. While migrants may continue to keep in touch with their family in China, India, Russia, etc, it also works to the advantage of Singapore to stay in contact with those who have left Singapore to work, study or live overseas.
Any country, not just Singapore, that is dependent on migrant population will have to contend with the issue of mixed feelings – it is only human. A peaceful and globalised world may not require one to choose between one country or the other.
Dr Frankenstein
Yes, GCT I believe you and I also believe in the tooth fairy and Santa Claus…..What a dreamer! Must be dreaming when he said More Good Years and Swiss standard of Living.
FriedKwayTiaoWithHum
Ah Goh said “…new immigrants to Singapore can become Singaporeans in outlook and loyalty within a generation…..”
Hello! Ah Goh, let me tell you that it took me, a local bred Singaporean who served NS/reservist, within 1 election term to change my outlook and loyalty to Singapore with your rubbish policies.
CJ
There aren’t many Fools left Mr Goh…
time has become very much borrowed for PAP…
The SS
$3mio worth of poltician talk.. come on.. don’t take us for fools anymore OK?
We are sick of this hog wash really. Care to put that into a KPI ? (even if you can)… how do you measure ‘loyaltly’… get real will ya?
As many brudders/sisters have said above, do you think the PRC’s etc will be loyal when their only intention here is to partake in the free buffet your are offering at our expense?
Wake up Voters ! NS was introduced to protect us from invaders. Now look where we are? We must use VOTES to claim our country back !
Oh Holy
I couldnt call the new immigrants loyal to Sg. Only to the PAP.
He has to define the term of loyal.
The reason why we r all here, is becos we love sg and wants a betterment of our lives. X seems to imply we r not loyal to sg because we do not support PAP hoho
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Quote : X
just to add, i have met first-gen chinese migrants throughout my life here in Singapore and I daresay many of them are fiercely loyal to Singapore. Unlike some of the so called local born.
gemami
Let us not equate disloyalty with the emigration of our own locally-born citizens. Given a chance, I believe these Singaporeans will not hesitate to fight for what their parents have slogged for – a land to call their own, with opportunities for their children to make the land even more fertile than it is.
The reason why these Singaporeans are staying away is because they find it ridiculous to stay and defend people who have not lifted a finger when the country was working toward the wealth that it now possesses. I do not doubt one second that should there be a need for these Singaporeans abroad to return to defend their parents, and friends and relatives, they will not hesitate for even a moment.
Unfortunately, the fact remains that we are being forced to defend people, and work for people, who may just pack up at leave at the slightest sign of trouble, but more importantly, people whom we do not have any feelings for.
There is simply just no reason for us to have any connection with them – except the one presented by the government – money; money that will go a long way to help pay their salaries and keep them entrenched in their high places.
SadSadPlace
This immigration policy benefits the “elites” – business owners(cheaper labor) and government owned companies( just look at money they make from the obscene number of people on the MRT trains these days… !!! )…more people…higher GDP…more money for the people in white….
When the livelihood of a citizen who has spent two years of his life defending this country is put at stake ( dun get me there to the threats of losing your uni place if you land up in DB….or the weekends we burn to do some stupid guard duty…or that lazy warrant officer who is wasting tax payer’s money….) to accommodate a new “citizen”…and for an ex PM to say something that is not in lieu with the voices of the citizens…it is really disheartening…
they say foreigners add more “spice ” to our lives ….but why not more add more “spices” in our political system ? A bit of vibrancy in our political system will definitely do our country good this round …
What a joke
This Woody Goh talked lots of crap! The most significant one was when,during
one of his National Day’s speech which was broadcasted live to the whole world,
he declared that “Singapore has become a ‘developed ‘nation” and he went on to say that it was like Singapore going straight into the World Cup final from the ‘S’ leaque. bypassing all the other leaques! This claim was however, shot down by
a few countries the very next day! This news was the joke of THAT year! Since then MSM has avoided the use of the word ‘develope’ nation to describe Singapore’s status, so as not to rekindle the embarrassment! We now use the term ‘First World’
The other one was the famous “Swiss std. of living” by year 2010.We are less than 2 months into the year 2010, are we heading towards Swiss? The list of his crap goes on.
He should have retired graciousfully after he stepped down as PM. But I guess the lure of $million pay for doing what he is doing now is too hard to resist ??
oh my god! another pap-wayang-show “leader(?)” or to be more exact “mouthpiece”, another old man who can not speak proper chinese, not to mention written chinese, proclaims to understand china well and giving ‘delusory comments’ about new chinese immigrants in singapore. don’t fall into the “viscous trap” he set up pertaining to the “coming general election”, to gather feedbacks and ammunitions for the pap. why should pap tweak its policy if it is not for certain benefits that they envision? why should they slap their own “faces”? if you believe him is like believing a “pig” “that” put-on lip-stick can fly! will the old man just shut-up and keep-quiet!
Seow
My Grandfather was a first generation immigrant to Singapore before WWII. During WWII, he had a fight with my Grandmother over his wish to go back to China to fight the japs as that was his motherland leaving behind his wife and young children. His heart was with China. My dad was born in Singapore and was older when Singapore had mandatory NS so he didnt serve NS. I can imagine him running back to our ancestral home in China if ever there is a war here. When it reach my generation, I had served my full-time NS and full reservist term. I was very proud of my service to the “nation” as I regarded Singapore as my “country” and my home. I regarded myself a a loyal Singaporean who will lay down my life in times of war to protect Singapore as I do not want to be a countryless slave. It took a few generations in my case to feel the sense of loyalty and belonging.
However in the recent year, I have been told that SIngapore is not a nation and recently not even a country. It is indeed sad that some people has the ability to destroy the feelings I have for my country in such a short time. I am not sure about how fellow Singaporeans feel.
Teo CW
I have given up believing in this country & the leaders.
I wonder who am I fighting for when serve my NS. I can’t protect what that does not belong to me. I can’t fight for the people whom I do not belong to.
As a so called Singaporean, I don’t feel I belong here. I have no country which I can pledge my allegiance to.
The Singapore pledge, the SAF pledge has become a bunch of words with no soul & meaning to it.
Yes. LKY is right. Singapore is not a country. It is a just a large corporation where the fittest survive & the weak resign.
People from China can fly their red flags proudly. People from India can be proud of their deep cultural heritage. I have no flag to fly. I have no heritage which I can share of. I have no citizenship which I can declare because I don’t know what it’s like to be Singaporean.
oh no! (this ‘dear “dirty” old man’), does he believe the universal rights of core principles that people must share as a citizen of this wondering world, including equal rights for everyone, a government that reflects the will of the people, open commerce–”oh! please not uniquely, singapore’s style of nepotism”, free access to information, and the rule of law. once again, we, the citizens of singapore, request you to just shut-up and keep quiet!
tralala tralala
Singaporeans have no right, and we have no say;
Yet we long to be free one day.
Our happiness was not to be,
Until our country is free from the PAP.
absurd
@ X
Frankly, if it weren’t for Singapore secure and economic stability, why would anyone want to migrate to Singapore? To build a 3rd world country into a 1st world country? BS. Singapore is what it is today because of the blood and sweat of our forefathers.
Not to say that we should not allow immigrants into the country, but to say that they will be loyal to the country is just far fetched. Lets live with the reality that they will come (and came) because its nice and rosy and leave when the shit hits the fan. If they stay and bleed for the country, that’s a bonus. We need them to inject vitality into the country (for national survival reasons) and they need Singapore to springboard to somewhere else better. Its reciprocal. The “loyalty” thang is just emotional.
absurd
@ Teo CW
Our flag is the No.4 we wore for 2 years and the heritage we have is the M16 we had for a wife. LOL
PAP propaganda never fails to boil Singaporeans blood.
dont talk so much rubbish PAP, make them serve 2.5 years+20years ICT cycle of NS then tell us how loyal these foreigners are.
we are sick and tired of their nonsense.
vote for Change, vote the PAP out.
Hi Teo CW 1:14 pm
Your comments made me think of the lyrics of a song
called “Woman Be My Country” sung by Johnny Clegg and Savuka
(South African band active in anti-apartheid politics during their bad old days).
Check out the lyrics of the song.
I’m Malaysian by the way, and I equally detest the ruling regime this side of the
Causeway.
New Era
5) very hsien on November 17th, 2009 1.14 am
LHL said most Malays support pap.
======================================
I find this puzzling too. Both father and son are always highlighting problems in the Malay community. The most recent was in reply to Viswa’s highfalutin ideas.
Anyway, just because you say so doesn’t mean it is so.
New Era
Dr Wong, you have painted a very scary scenario. But are Singaporeans ready to do what is necessary? Are they ready for change?
I voted for the MIW all my life but it is precisely because I want to prevent what you said from happening that I am now ready to vote for Change.
Jezebella
Somehow PAP’s logic is always very skewered. Top talent, anyone?
Merobok
Wooden must be joking! The children at the deepavali function are all dark colour as they are Indians, so they all look alike and cannot be distinguishable! Common Sense
multi-lingual
Perhaps I’ll add something optimistic here. At least as a Sinagporean, my children (and their children) will have better chances of becoming a millionaire Singapore politician/civil servant, assuming that non-Singaporean citizens (including PRs) cannot aspire to political office or senior civil service posts here.
Not bad huh? In a future country where Singaporeans make up the minority of its population, my descendents will have much better odds of earning big bucks in senior service and political posts that will be reserved for citizens!
Walau !! he simplifies Singaporean as mere idiots or simpletons huh …….is he ok lah ?
Online Shmonline
@ 39) Merobok on November 17th, 2009 5.17 pm
Wow…racist commentary rears its little head again.
*sigh*
perhaps you’re a PAP man – see below for the reason.
“One evening, I drove to Little India and it was pitch dark but not because there was no light, but because there were too many Indians around.”
This astonishing remark was made by PAP Member of Parliament Choo Wee Khiang, in a speech in Mandarin during a parliament session in 1992, calling on the Government to be “selective” in controlling the number of foreign workers. However the Singapore Government chose not to act against him for a breach of parliamentary privilege although the utterance could easily be construed as innuendo for a call for ethnic cleansing.
On June 7, 1999, Choo resigned as MP two hours before pleading guilty to a charge of abetting his brother-in-law to cheat a finance company by issuing false invoices worth $1,000,000 in 1990. He was sentenced to two weeks in jail, fined $10,000 and was barred from contesting parliamentary elections for five years. In a statement, then Acting Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong said he was saddened by Choo’s resignation and that Choo “has done the right thing.”
Kublai Kang
I had a napmare :
If all citizens migrate due to foreigners surpassing locals, overcrowding or dilution of native singaporean characteristics, would this not mean singapore would have gone back to its founding days where all support behind 1 leader?
That beginning stage of Nation Building?
Is it a Nation yet? Why did some say it is not yet? What is meant by that?
Is it a Country? ditto?
Geography-wise, how can a city exist without a country?
Luckily, i woke up that it was just a dream.
I need to make the right decision.
Dr Wong, if i should see you, you get mine.
walnut
Should he now be known as lover of QUITTERS.
NS for ALL
Talk is cheap
Every body claim to be loyal–but nobody want to do do NS
Die-hard Singaporean
When Goh Chok Tong talks about the quality of life he is referring to the elite. The quality of life for the great unwashed has already gone downhill and continues to slide.
If immigrants actually improved the quality of life for all you would not be able to find one Singaporean who would have a problem with “foreign talent”. The fact is the migrants and foreign workers are here to prop up the elite.
I note that Goh Chok Tong refrained from talking about foreign workers and their impact on the lower end of town.
I am sorry, but the Government is getting more and more removed from the common people and more and more uncaring.
jason tan
As a 2nd generation born chinese in singapore..I felt detached from the nation.
i rather served my national serivice in the republic of China(Taiwan) than in SIngapore.
I know by serving the the ROC army i am holding and defending the three people priniciples of sun yat sen-the founding father of modern china.
Anotherway of speaking I’m willnig to give up my indentity as singaporean since this identity brings the pride as a whole. I’ll rather stick to my identity as a chinese
george
Political objectives make fools of the sanest man.
GCT had never made any smart or clever political remarks in his career as a Singapore politician. He is a technocrat, made politicial leader.
Every landmark statement he had ever made bears testimony to this, like for example:
1. Swiss standard of living
2. world cup final 2010
to name two infamous ones.
Loyalty??? Are we putting a premium on loyalty now?
Let me ask you then, what does Singapore do with PRs and foreigners who have committed crimes and been sentenced to jail during their stay in Singapore?
When the PR had been in Singapore for over 10 years and rejected twice our invitation to take up our citizenship.
When the PR had applied for PR overseas before he committed the crime, and still wanted to emigrate after that.
What do we do with this group of fair-weather ex-convicts on Permanent Residence?
I sure don’t know now, but I’m writing to ICA to find out the price of “loyalty”….
Besides pep talk, it is more important that citizens see real and concrete differences between privileges enjoyed by citizens and those of migrants.
The past has seen lax policies that allowed many foreigners to get jobs and citizenship too quickly and easily. If it is talent that we need, then the government should ensure that only the best and second best are accepted, not just any foreign degree from unknown and lowly ranked universities.
Not many places in the world welcome foreigners with open arms and readily absorb them, even to the extent of displacing locals of jobs. In America, Australia, , migrants have to acclimatise to the local education, work experience and even slangs to adjust and be accepted.
Heavenknow
28) Seow
I have the same feeling like you, in regardless what our background, rich or poor, young or old and all brothers in arm, we served in the army and the contribution in our reservists and till faithfully discharged for the security of this ” city ” not a nation or a country. Looking back, as it we have lost our soul…. real sad…
May the day arrives, MIW will strike by their own thunder… for its betrayer to its citizens.
Alex the Peasant Boy
Oh no, why Mr Goh? Why would you utter such rubbish! I am so ashamed to hear that from a senior minister! I have nothing against FTs, we do need them for various jobs & for that, I am grateful. However, the line stops there & I dont think any of these FTs would be able/want to operate a GPMG or M16 when it’s time for them to stand up to prove their worth!! Why did I serve NS? It just make it look like some joke you tell your friends in a bar along Tanjong Pagar!
Our leaders keep telling us to welcome them & even forking out S$10million dollars for some silly campaign! Well, I think the money could be better spent on medicals for the poor & elderly. Yes, I really think that it’s a complete waste of good tax payers’ money on stupid thing like this! That’s the problem with NO Opposition to stop & check on these useless buggers! Why am I paying these people such a crazy salary with my taxes & GST? My PM need a dozen ministers to help him to govern a small island with a population of 3.5 million Real citizens & I still get rubbish from some minister telling me that he’s a bargain or I am just some lesser mortal!! I just dont understand why I am paying these people to utter nonsense every other day!!
Mr Goh, sir, If I want to hear rubbish, I would rather pay Jerry Seinfeld or Russell Peters; at least they are entertaining!
LOCALJOHN
GCT know how to talk cock. He impressed me most was when he was PM, and promised a swiss standard. I lived in europe during that time, and kind of respected his vision towards improving the living condition of our people. now what you people can see is t=not what you get, i dont have to elaborate.
My wish to my people now, from my heart, vote out the evils.
DavidSeeLeongKit
IN A NUTSHELL:
> SINGAPORE is a Little Red Dot island run by…
self-proclaimed “First-World” Obscenely-Paid Muddle-headed Million-dollar Ministers and…
self-proclaimed “First-Class” Over-Paid Bird-Brained Bureaucrats…
as well as a country of…
obscenely-priced million-dollar “pigeon-holes” (1000sf private condos) and
over-priced “bee-hives” (less than 1000sf HDB flats).
> PAP = Pay And Pay [polite version]
PAP = Pathetic And Pathetic [impolite version]
PAP = Pissed And Pissed [angry version]
PAP = Phui And Phui [very angry version] — Cantonese for spitting not once but twice in total disgust.
ronin
I want to tell GCT that in times of war, very few male S’poreans will want to defend this land….because there is NOTHING worth defending!!!!
Old Harry
Foreigners come to Singapore for selfish reasons,such as the pasture is greener here.It is akin to nomadic herding,moving on when one discovers better grazing land elsewhere.
Why did Li Jiawei want to represent Singapore?Because of loyalty?
Ask her how much material gain she reaps.Drastically reduce that,and see if she will still represent Singapore.Well,perhaps massive material benefit doth engender a loyal heart,but only as long as there is still gain.By the way,many Singaporeans see no pride in her winning medals for us,as she looks and sounds foreign.
Those Chinese young men and women who got scholarships to to study here do so because they want to obtain our globally-recognized academic credentials.Once they have served their bonds,they will shift elsewhere.Loyalty?
Bah!
If there is a serious international spat between Singapore and China,who do you think the Chinese nationals living here will support?
Of course those Chinese nationals will say good things about Singapore while they are here benefiting.What they really feel is another story.
To compare our forefathers with these modern pasture-seeking immigrants reveals a lack of grasp of the prevailing socio-economic circumstances.Today,people are more mobile,and more economic opportunities abound.
Old Harry
There is another thing.
If our SAF soldiers see more and more foreigners in their day-to-day living in their very own country,would they be wondering,during their live-firing and bayonet-fighting,for whom are they fighting for?
www
refer to Li Jiawei
enough said.
Michael
http://opinions.sinchew-i.com/node/12344
A view from a PR who happen to be an ex-civil servant of Singapore.
Anti Greed
If Ministers themselves need to be paid $millions in order to prevent them from becoming Corrupt, let us not talk about Loyalty to the country.
I hope SM Goh, together with SM Jayakuma and MM Lee, can show us their loyalty to Singapore and Singaporeans by accepting only a token of $1 per month as his salary and reject all forms of annual bonuses and perks.
If the late Mr Lim Kim San and some others could do it, why can’t they?
Leaders should set good examples for the citizens to follow, otherwise your words simply sound extremely hollow.
Lum
If our Malay brethens cannot hold sensitive position in SAF, can the PRC Chinese?
aiyoyo
aiyoyo
new PR/citizen loyal? so people served NS previously are they loyal?
observations – new citizen get sg passport reason they give is that
‘oh easy to travel/move around the world!’
is it something amiss where elites missed out?
aiyoyo
theforgottongeneration
Isn’t this guy the one that openly legalized the buying votes for HDB upgrading? Some may view that as corruption but he may call it loyalty.
Remember he just returned from his ancestral village in China. Maybe he “upgraded” some stuff there and was thus conferred with royalty status. So to show his gratitude, he would definitely sing a nice tune to us Singaporeans about his kinsmen. The “you-rub-my backside-I kick your ass” routine . . . towards building (whose?) loyalty.
theforgottongeneration
@62) theforgottongeneration on November 18th, 2009 8.06 am
Errata: “you-rub-my backside-I KISS your ass”, not “you-rub-my backside-I KICK your ass”
Time To Be a Quitter
With so-called leaders like that, this country is going to the dogs.
They simply cannot feel how the general population, especially those at the receiving end, feels.
It is time to get the hell out of here before worse things come.
I dare not imagine what things will be like when Sinkapore is flooded by 3 millions of foreigners,
New Era
“I would want to form an alternative policies group in Parliament, comprising 20 PAP MPs. These 20 PAP MPs will be free to vote in accordance with what they think of a particular policy. In other words, the whip for them will be lifted. This is not playing politics, this is something which I think is worthwhile doing.”
Goh Chok Tong
New Era
“Retrenchment is good for Singapore. If there is no retrenchments, then I worry.”
Goh Chok Tong
leesjuanpat
Goh Chok Tong once in a while will get ‘CHOKE’ on his own words.
What crap is he talking? So easy to blend in to be a S’porean. Just because he is SM, he thinks his words will bear weight. Well, all famous people are egoistic, understood !
My Sporean friend migrated to Canada since 1990 (which I should have done so.
Now too old and gahmen will not help old folks), He never feels at home in Toronto to this day, even his children. We still correspond thru email.
So please Mr CHOKE don’t talk ‘cock-a-doodle-do’ And for that matter we have too many foreigners in Spore for comfort in a tiny land.
What Change?
Woody should return to his motherland and contribute to it. He’s redundant here anyway and costs too much. Lest we forget, he was the one who opened the floodgates to Hongkies pre-1997 and caused HDB prices to soar. Also the same blockhead who said every adult should have a stocktrading account.
singapore boy
Stupid man SM Goh.
What kind of high level thinking he has?
Million dollar pay has made him stupid!!!
Brainless fool
Citizenship has to be earned (at the cost of blood and lives). It comes with heavy responsibilities.
What can a brand new citizen come in ,without giving anything to singapore, takes our security and commitment for granted.
The new citizens are global citizens not singapore citizens.
They have no roots, no commitments. They are here for jobs and money.
When they have enough, they will go with Singapore’s money earned under our security blanket provided by singapore, getting subsidies from singapore government, a high standard of education.
In one sentence, another stepping stone for them to go to First World countries.
What shit is SM Goh talking. Bullshit words.
Seow
“I would want to form an alternative policies group in Parliament, comprising 20 PAP MPs. These 20 PAP MPs will be free to vote in accordance with what they think of a particular policy. In other words, the whip for them will be lifted. This is not playing politics, this is something which I think is worthwhile doing.” – Goh Chok Tong
If it is not playing politics, I suggest that the number should be raised from 20 to 41 (half of 82 PAP MPs). Without party whip, they still vote for issues like losing your country through lax immigration policies or the draconian POA; that will be a show that I will like to see. But since it is playing politics, the number should be 20 as suggested……
KacangPutih
I think Lau Goh’s brain is screwed by the 600k peanuts fed by his wife. That’s why he is thinking like a monkey.
Lim Anyhow Say
I wonder other than Majority in singapore will be Foreigners,
I wonder what else is in store for us after the GE?
I wonder how will my daughter’s life be like in this city in future?
injoy more Good Years.
Chin Lee Bai
What happened to that China national day parade singapore PR?
Will She be loyal ?
Tua Tow BLJ
Goh, can you respond or not?
Some of the comments here are logical like how do you prove they are loyal if untested? By new immigrants, is it a sweep implying of ALL new immigrants or a few that you know?
Do Quantify your statement.
Is that your Aspiration or is that Proven beyond reasonable doubt in international court?
Political SalesMaN
Tua Tow let me tell U a story of my neighbour. He was a Malaysian, a PAP lackey.
Is a Singaporean now. Everytime I meet him, he will ask me will opposition become goverment. what’s a hurry, he reply LKY is old waiting to migrate to Hell.
If PaP collaspe ! I have everytihng ready in Australia, waiting to migrate . So how did Goh Choke Tong tested the New migrant loyal or Not
mike
this old fart is nothing but puppet who was really a seat warmer for LHL indeed. redundant and wastefull of public fund as a SM or ’stupid minister’?
Political SalesMaN
Look at his stupid face. Kayu! looking at his wife seating at sombody lap. Doing nothing. P/s go to: www. yeocheowtong .com
commentator
Since PAP welcome immigrants so much, maybe we should all wave the flags of all other nationalities on our own National Day!
Chew Bai Song
I so fedup TOC readers asking for proof.
Goh, prove it to them. Silence them. I mean , make them stop asking for proof.
u the man, goh.
Hong Seng Kan
I support the idea that new immigrants can be loyal .
At the same time, this also means there is no assurance that new immigrants may be very loyal.
I look at the influx this way:
1. initially, i shocked and worried.
2. then i look at singaporeans and singapore’s history of 50 years.
I see some singaporean characteristics/mentality that i am not proud of.
3. Even if no influx, with only pure native singaporeans, what happens ? What will happen to singapore? What can change?
4. So, its clear to me that With or Without Native singaporeans, change is not gonna come like it did for the rest of the world.
if foreigners come and overtake as majority, SO BE IT!
gudrun
The reason we have such low birth rates is because the singaporean economy is not designed to promote domestic spending and we have a social safety network made of tissue paper. Yes its lower taxes, yes i know some people think it makes singaporeans more resilient. But look what has happened. the cost has greatly outweighed the supposed benefits.
Matrixian
How come the article “Goh Chok Tong – The Pioneer Bond-Breaker?” has so many deletions? All the comments have been deleted. Why?
see for yourself here:
http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/11/goh-chok-tong-bond-breaker/
Threat of Law Suits Succeeded in Creating Cowards in this Brave New World?
Dumb and dumber
To 80) Hong Seng Kan on November 18th, 2009 9.24 pm
You’re mixing up no foreign talents with influx and echoing what the MSM is feeding you. And all your logic is twisted.
A&E
But SM, I thought quitters were baaaad.
Hong Seng Kan
#83 dumb and dumber,
no i have not.
I am happy to see more foreigners come in.
The more the better.
If singaporeans migrate, more room for them.
I congratulate those who found greener pastures.
I welcome our new citizens.
I don’t like the singaporean bad traits like Singlish,
Kia Si, Kia Su and all the other Kias
IT TIME FOR CHANGE.
The PAP move of Foreign talent policy is working and people are ACCEPTING.
PAP = CHANGE.
I will vote for it.
will4
I agreed that first generation PR should not serve NS but their children should serve NS if they want to continue to stay in this country.
leesjuanpat
#87-Truth about Pragmatic Thinkers
A piece of elaborated gem. Well written and lay bare the true facts of what had been happening. Only as you said, the cowards and fools are being deceived.
Myself for one, has never voted for PAP. Yes! the first 20 years was nation building.
Subsequently, was drawing blood from the poor citizens to enrich their pockets, their cronies’, those bootlickers and balls carriers.
Goh ‘Choke’ tong also believe in money to rattle his illogical piece of nonsense that immigrants can and will blend well in our society. What (_*_) is he talking.
Please refer to my comment on no: #67.
I request your permission to copy your comment to my Blog for my friends to read.
http://www.leesjuanpatworld.blogspot.com
Truth about Pragmatic Thinkers
88) leesjuanpat on November 20th, 2009 4.16 am
Please go ahead to copy my comment to your blog. It will be my pleasure.
leesjuanpat
#89 Truth about Pragmatic Thinkers.
I tried to copy and paste to my Blog but it did not work on this TOC website.
Do you have a copy on file to send to my email at : leesjuan@yahoo.com
Thank you.
QQY
Why does his speech sounds like he is reprimanding us for “not producing” enough babies or taking the bait thrown in our faces to procreate in the nos desired by the govt??
Shouldn’t they try to resolve the root of the prob rather thn go for the easy way out which is to import huge no of foreigners to take up citizenship?
What makes thm think that the new citizens/prs will:
1) be loyal and stay on and/or take up citizenshp (for prs)
2) reproduce in the nos desired by the govt
These ppl will also face the same probs currently encountered by the local women who have chosen nt to start a family and thus they are also likely to make the same choice to not start a family…so what thn?
Keep importing more foreigners?
Patriotism should not be taken for granted – there may be a situation where singaporeans will no longer be patriotic simply becos we no longer feel affliated to the country since we have become the less preferred ppl in this country.
retiredgangster
wei wei you all har don’t prayed play with mr PEANUT minister
he promised you a swiss standard..it didn’t happenned..now he tell you he might guranteed you all a french standard…
it the same trust me on that..swiss and france both speak french….
so you see technicalLEE if an indian kids were to parlabu a le francis..
can you tell the differences whether that indian kid is a swiss or a frenchie?
Bonsoir peut j’avoir une tasse de café avec du lait svp si faites me en donner les croissants libres… svp si les figurants de salaire aucuns vous remercient appréciaient vos repas
Everything Has A Price
I don’t think we should worry too much about foreigners taking up Singapore citizenship will be loyal to Singapore or not.
Foreigners who stay long enough in Singapore will learn from local Singaporeans. If local Singaporeans are not happy. The foreigners will find out the reason why. If local Singaporeans begin to be disloyal to Singapore, the foreigners (new citizens) will also begin to think twice whether they should or should not be loyal to Singapore.
There is also another way out. If corruption can be swiped away simply be paying ministers $million of taxpayers’ money, loyalty can also be bought at a price, isn’t it? Singapore govt is very rich. We have hundreds of billions in our National Reserves, in Temasek, in GIC and other places, like CPF. So, what is there to prevent a new policy aiming at buying the loyalty of new citizens?
Remember, just before the 2006 GE, there was this Progress Package?. Why can’t the PAP govt come out with a New Citizen Progress Package during the next GE to induce them to vote for the PAP? Just ponder over it.
The Singapore Daily » Blog Archive » Weekly Roundup: Week 47
[...] it is – Seelan Palay’s Blog: Is Government favouring foreign students? [Thanks Seelan] – TOC: New immigrants’ loyalty to S’pore – SM Goh’s amazing conclusion – Sgpolitics.net: Loyalty and the Singaporean – Frankly Speaking: Zaobao: Most PRC scholars are [...]
dd
85) Hong Seng Kan
Singaporeans Kiasu Kiasi?? Alright lets stereotype here..
Mate, you obviously haven’t seen the typical behaviour of foreigners.
Change can be good…
But what if more bad traits come in? You really think our bad traits will be eradicated overnight? Does our liberal policies weed out the bad ones?
The one whose type would backstab the country by showing off the blue IC and then proclaiming the utmost loyalty to her homeland.
Even Freaking Jet Li has become Singaporean, why the hell do we have to be liberal to masses. There should be a huge demand already to become Singaporean and we should be turning alot of them away. Not subsidising them. Lets make more money from these people man. Bleed the mu guo rens dry. Not the other way round.,
dd
by the way,
screw zhang yuan yuan….
we’ve got Wong Fei Hong!
Short-changed Singapore Citizen
I would like to ask SM Goh Chok Tong whether it is true that there is a double standard that favours PRs as follows:
Singaporean citizens who have purchased a HDB flat (from the open market), even though fully paid, has to wait for 12 months before they can resell their flat,
(this is what has happened to me)
WHILE
PRs who have purchased a HDB flat (from the open market), who are still paying their monthly installments to the banks, are allowed to sell their flats at any time, without the same restriction imposed on Singapore citizens.
(this was told to me by my Singapore PR friend, a Malaysian holding blue Singapore IC, who has just purchased the HDB flat in Oct 2009.)
toeee
I got a simple 2 word solution: VOTE OPPOSITION
NotEverythingHasAprice
the powers conveniently forgot that we are built on PRAGMATISM – especially the self serving kind. the people also being pragmatic will themselves know WHEN to CASH OUT of this country.
the best time to CASH OUT and CRASH OUT(dump your hdbs) is when the POPULATION AGES.
old people are not ECONOMICALLY VAIN anymore so the attraction of a concrete(MALLS MALLS EVERYWHERE) and extremely dense(PACK LIKE SARDINES) and YOUTH and VAINITY ORIENTED SOCIETY may lose its luster.
many may opt for more rustic options(country side) in the amber land of their origin.
why? more bucks(CASH OUT) for the bang in rustic and natural surrounding(wider space, cooler climate and slower pace better for older folks) where these large continents can offer!
PRAGMATISM folks,PRAGMATISM will sink us!
Orang Ulu
Old age & too large a salary quickly make a man go gaga lah!
To the PAP, they honestly and fervently believe that:
PAP = Singapore
So it is up to us native Singaporeans (as opposed to the newly minted Singaporeans) to use our votes wisely and make the point that:
Singapore > PAP or any political party
If native Singaporeans continue to be spineless, then we will become IRrelevant after the next GE as we increasingly will form < 50% of the electorate! So it is up to each of us!
loop
Alot of elderly Singaporeans are being abandoned or neglected by the young of Singapore. Do you still think they are loyal to their country? It is this country system that makes lives so hard for the young nowadays thus sacrificing their own parents for their own & their own offsprings survivals.
PG
Sm Goh has never worked or lived in any other country in his life ( unlike me) , has no real experience or knowledge of foreigners , and sets himself up as an expert.
We all know about experts after the financial crisis , they don’t exist , just talkers.
maybe goh’s conclusion can be interpreted instead as Singaporeans will be become so diluted that they can easily pass off as part of the majority immigrants then. Truly believable as his goal 2010 vision .