27/11/09

I am very glad that the rule of law has been fully enforced till the end and Yong has to face the gallows soon and there must not be any exception and our Modern Singapore stand is very clear ie “no play play with us” and perhaps time for the authorities to go after the drugs syndicate mastermind who are highly educated and using Modern Singapore to launder their tens of millions of drugs monies and all out to bring them to the law.

Regards
Andrew Chuah

Fully agree :) he obviously knew of the drug law, yet he still made the choice to smuggle the stuff in. He got what he deserved and it serves as a deterred for those who think they want to try the same.

It is SAD… but he has taken a path that has NO U-turn…especially in Singapore.

The drug lords will continue to use the poorly educated, not very intelligent and naive19 yr olds with poor family background to take the risks and run the trips. At 19 and esp those who are at a lost in their lives with broken families, it is so easy for the evil drug lords to make them fall into their trap. Is it right to just execute this guy? Can the intelligence unit not use him to lead them to the drug lords instead?

This law is expecting every young person to be very clever, street wise and on their guts or their parents to be fully aware of their young childrens’ social activities & aquaintances. This law is NOT protecting our youngsters, it is doing the opposite of harming the already vulnerable age group.

The very place that is hanging him is also a haven for his big boss. Very ironic indeed!

Poorly educated does not = poor morality.
Poor parent also does not = poor morailty.

///The drug lords will continue to use the poorly educated, not very intelligent and naive19 yr olds with poor family background to take the risks and run the trips.///

In turn, this same “poorly educated, not very intelligent and naive”19 yr old will destroy lives of umpteen youths with his drug supply.

It is not a fair law, the court must consider whether a person is juvenile or adult in sentencing capital punishment. The president is just a puppet, he can’t save the boy if the cabinet do not agree to the clemency.

This guy is not even 21! A 19 year old should be given the chance to learn from his mistake. No Singaporean would be proud of a policy that seeks to deter crimes by killing kids. This is not some third world country where people enjoy watching the persecutions of others.

The reality of death is at Yong Vui Kong’s door. It is most unfortunate that at his most vulnerable moment he was led into committing this crime. And it has to be in S’pore, where drug traffickers have never been pardoned death.

In death Vui Kong is facing the courage to donate his organs.

We all hope that his lawyer M Ravi can still do something to save this desperate young man’s life. A second chance to live again is all he asks for.

Humankind’s greatest compassion is forgiveness with a merciful heart.

Yong Vui Kong is not a hardcore murderer.
He deserves a second chance to be rehabitated.

Yes, of course, all the drug-lords in the region were expecting to survive on the takings expected from this 47grams of heroin. They are now in dire straits because of this hanging.

How many get through uncaught?

How effective is this as a deterrent?

Go ahead with the execution if Singapore wants to be be equated with Afghanistan under Taliban’s rule . The government there seemed to have no understanding between justice and just harsh punishment whatsoever.

I agree that he deserves a second chance.

The rigid laws regarding drug trafficking need to be revised.
The judges should have some flexibility in sentencing the convicts.

The President should have his own independent assessment and decision, instead of relying on the advice of the Cabinet.

The Cabinet is the one that propose and passed the law. Therefore, it will have to stick strictly to what they have initiated in the first place.

However, the President should act as the ingredient of compassion, of humility, of common sense, instead of following rigidly to the letter of the law.

The Judiciary, the Executive, the Parliament and the President all should be independent of one another. However, it seems that everything is referred to the Cabinet. This is ridiculous!

Even the President also has to “obey” the “advice” of the Cabinet!!! What kind of a check-and-balance system is that? Everything is controlled by the Cabinet. And who controls the Cabinet? ONE MAN!!!

Singapore President rejects clemency petition……

Who is this Nathan president and what authority he has??

He is an Unelected, FAT, puppet president who has no authority even to use the country reserves. Let alone spare the young chap life.

He is not even train as a lawyer.

When sure capital punishment case surface, he has to consult famiLEE first. This is the Puppetry Procedure.

KopitiamApek @7
///”Poorly educated does not = poor morality.
Poor parent also does not = poor morailty.”///

I don’t know if you intentionally or ignorantly misunderstood my statement. If a 19 yr old is below average intelligence (not his fault as he is born that way), does not get a chance to be educated properly, or have poor parents, he or she is VULNERABLE to be morally corrupted by the drug lords.

Put if this way, if Yong’s fate was to meet a good person who can give him good advice and support, would he have done what he had done? We do not know and since we do not know, it does not mean that Yong is confirmed a bad or evil person who deserve to die.

///”In turn, this same “poorly educated, not very intelligent and naive”19 yr old will destroy lives of umpteen youths with his drug supply”///

You rightly used the words “in turn” suggesting that Yong was used. So it is not entirely his fault. I still don’t understand why the intelligence do not use him to lead them to the real drug pushers. If they are, why have we never heard news of drug lords (the real pushers) being napped, like in the West. These drug lords are very sophisticated type, they are not your common 19 yr old criminals.

Andrew Chuah,

Why don’t you join XE and fight the drug lords yourself instead of coming in and preaching like your story is the only sad tale in town?

Try and enlighten yourself towards why others find mandatory sentencing distasteful, ineffective and overcompensatory.

If the intention of the execution is as a deterrent to stop individuals from working for the drug lords, it is not going to work on the simple reason that the lords are too powerful over those individuals. They could blackmail and force these youngsters to do it, or they could corrupt them or they could induce them to do it by the very drugs they push.

Say a person knows about the execution and for the fear of it, refuse to carry out the task for the lords. These lords could harrass them everyday, threaten them, blackmail them with some secrets they know etc.

KopitiamApek, strange that you don’t seem to want to go after the drug lords yourself too. Is it because they are too difficult to catch? Is that an excuse?

No Scholar,

It is entirely possible that pushers are sent through SEA as decoys, and some get caught, perhaps others are lucky enough not to get snared.

We should re-look the definition of why drugs require mandatory death penalties towards one that measures actual harm done in a proportional fashion.

Loyola

Yes, it is possibly and quite likely the small time smuggling is a decoy.

The authority should definitely keep looking into this and keep improving. The harsh sentencing was without a doubt, originally set out with good intention to stem drug trafficking. But its been umpteen years and the law has not changed a dime thing. I think no one even bothers to look into how many of these executed drug smugglers are youngsters, very young people and why.

PAP has two sets of law to apply for HEROIN trafficking.

One is for heroin-lord from Burma, for instance, PAP officially allowed Burma’s druglords to carry tonnages of HEROIN with containership. Of course they credited their drugs money into Singapore banks (Lees never mentioned those were “Money laundering”). In fact PAP had closed both eyes for those Burma’s druglords and even PAP allowed them to open private company, so that they could dominate Singapore as a “HEROIN distribution center” to the world.

Another one set of law is to apply like Yong Vui Kong who carried as little heroin as 47g. That is too little for PAP government and that amount of heroin may not stimulate Singapore’s Banks, that is why PAP cabinet has decided that the “Death Sentence Should Stand.”

[i]A&E on November 27th, 2009 9.46 pm Yes, of course, all the drug-lords in the region were expecting to survive on the takings expected from this 47grams of heroin. They are now in dire straits because of this hanging.

How many get through uncaught?[/i]

i have a kaki’s friend who was hung 2 years ago..he was a singapoorium..what druglord? these socalled 19 year ole kids will do anythinggie for quickmoney…
too lazy to do an honest day work @ an honest day wages…
ok here have 2 scenerio..i worked with 19 years ole kids from neighbourin countries..indeed they are really naived daft and STUPID….trust me on that..even in china i could have recruited a 1000 mules whether to smuggle girls or hoonkies…whatever……..all with falsh promises and pretenses…
the 2nd scenerio is very simple..this 19 year ole mule is just a diversion
the day he carried on his body is the day he give himself a deathwish..the drugcartel are evil MEN..this is a diversified mule..the 2nd mule who is really carryin more than that min quantity just waltz behin a few steps away..the evil BARON would tipped the authorities about a certain courier..he was targetted and arrested upon his embarkation on our soil..so all the custom/narcortic would pat on their shoulders for a job welldone..but in reality they were TIPOFF…so while they were so busy holdin trophy for wongcansink to handshake them..the MAIN courier already slipped past..whoila………
and if you think i am just tellin a story here..
have you ever heard of yoda? no not bloomin yoga again…..
~sigh~

Get real people. Many people died of drug addiction. A young man trying out drugs for the first time may become dependent on drug pushers once he is addicted. The withdrawal symptoms from drugs are unimaginable. People died quickly from drug addiction. It’s not like cigarettes at all. It can be lethal and normally it is. Drug pushers = Murderer. People from Malaysia and Singapore should be aware by now that trafficking drug is punishable by death. It is unpopular but it is fair.

Nohamad Nur,

Most of us will let the death penalty stay on the books for heinous crimes related to drug trafficking, e.g associative murder, kidnapping, but we must be circumspect that mandatory application of this law in the context of a drug mule is not as effective, but rather the cost of it is something we should look at closely.

An individual who is not deep into trafficking as a business should be allowed to rehabilitate and become one that can contribute to society once more. Please read less of Hobbes, he’s a philosopher that doesn’t gel well with paradigm shifts.

The irony is at 19, you are deemed not matured enough to
vote for a Govt which will pass laws that sees you fit to be tried
as an adult at 18.
Capital punishment has no place in a humane and civilised
society and most countries have already abolished it.
If it has to be kept, then it should be meted out on the most
hideous offences and the age of the offenders should be above 21.
If I remember correctly, the death sentence was only commuted once
by OTC for a woman convict who was dying of terminal illness anyway.
So what’s the point of seeking clemency from the President when
we know the result is a forgone conclusion even if the mitigation
factors are strong?

The law as it stands gives the judge no room to consider mitigating factors. Those who say Vui Kong must die has no idea what the flaws in the system are. If they do, they would not be saying someone as young as Vui Kong must die.

Flaw Number One: If drugs are found on the accused, and it is proved that he knew of the presence of the package (even if he did not know it was drugs), he is presumed to be trafficking, if the drugs is over the prescribed limit.

Flaw Number Two: Once this knowledge is presumed, the onus then is on the accused to prove that he did not know about the presence of the package (drugs). This means, he is guilty unless he can prove otherwise – contrary to the universally accepted international standard of innocent until proven guilty.

Flaw Number Three: The prosecution only has to be successful in proving its presumption. I repeat: PRESUMPTION. The prosecution does not need to prove that the accused actually was involved in trafficking.

Flaw Number Four: The accused, when arrested, can be denied any access to any lawyers or family members for as long as the police deems fit. By then, in a state of fear and tiredness from intense interrogation, the accused can be easily coerced into signing confessions. And confessions in Singapore, even if the prosecution fails to prove its case, can be taken as evidence.

There are many other flaws in the system. So, lets think more closely and deeply before we jump on the self-righteous bandwagon and say someone like Vui Kong must die.

If he must die, what about those who roll out the red carpet for the ones who are actually producing drugs? Why do we not put them in jail when they’re in S’pore? Instead, we give them state honour and invite them to state dinners and even named an orchid after one of them.

Think.

In response to this:

“2) ima on November 27th, 2009 6.05 pm

Fully agree :) he obviously knew of the drug law, yet he still made the choice to smuggle the stuff in. He got what he deserved and it serves as a deterred for those who think they want to try the same.”

ima, how do you know that he obviously knew of the drug law? Now let me tell you this:

Yong Vui Kong was told that helping his boss deliver the drugs won’t get him the death penalty and if he ever got caught, all he needed to do was to pay a sum of money to the officials. For his naivety he was made a drug mule. A few days before crossing over the customs with the drugs, he spent the money on her birthday.

ima, do you know that drug mules are different from drug lords? Yes we hang drug mules but we deal with drug lords from Burma. Some of those drug lords have business investments and companies here and some are also living here on PR status while STILL having a drug empire back home in Burma. You think this is fair?

This boy deserves a second chance and Nathan being a trained social worker, should consider rehabilitation. In this case, what makes anyone think that rehabilitation won’t work?

It is scary even to me, a mature adult who will never push drugs or take a drug because what if more than 15 gms of heroin are placed into my suitcase or my child’s suitcase without me knowing. It is very possible when these guys want to do it. Lets hope even those who advocate this barbaric law will not get to experience this.

Rachel,

“In this case, what makes anyone think that rehabilitation won’t work? ”

Because those “supporters” do not think before they wave their pom-poms in support.

Hi Lee,

Many here must have known about the futility of the appeal in the first place. I personally didn’t think clemency would’ve been granted either. But in this instance, and on all the other issues that Singaporeans like to see improved in our country, we cannot give up and passively accept the state of affairs, simply because we haven’t had successful precedents.

He should be given a chance given that he is only 19 at the time of crime.

this is sad, what rights do we have to take a young life away. he made a big mistake, but he should be given a second chance.

I am interested to know if the police has made any further effort to track down the syndicate behind this. This boy is just a young scapegoat. If our justice system only stops here, I will be disappointed.

Correction to a typo error made earlier in my comment (26):

“A few days before crossing over the customs with the drugs, he spent the money on her birthday.”

It should be:

A few days before crossing over the customs with the drugs, it was his mother’s birthday. He spent the money on her birthday.

“Singapore’s policies and practice bucks the solid and long-standing trend towards global abolition of the death penalty. When the Universal Declaration of Human Rights was adopted in 1948, eight countries had abolished the death penalty in law or practice. Sixty years later, the number stands at 138. Within the Asia Pacific region, Singapore is one of 9 states that retain the death penalty in law and practice. 27 states in the region have either abolished the death penalty or are holding a de facto moratorium.

As not all sentences and executions are reported publicly, it is possible that there have been more death penalty cases in the last few weeks. Amnesty International has requested that the Singapore government make public comprehensive information about the state’s use of the death penalty. Singapore has yet to publicly provide the requested annual statistics covering the period from 1993 to the present day.

Amnesty International, 13 Jan 2009.

Sylvia Lim spoke on the flaws in the system concerning the death penalty some time back:

Access to counsel:

“Although Article 9(3) of our Constitution provides that an arrested person has a right to consult a legal practitioner of his choice, this “right” has been whittled down drastically in its operation. Case law has established that the accused’s right to counsel is subject to the exigencies of police investigations, and the accused may only exercise his right to counsel if it does not jeopardize investigations. Who will decide whether allowing a lawyer in will undermine investigations?

The reality is that the police will be the judge of that and it is very difficult to challenge the police on their views of how to conduct their investigations. What this means for the accused is that he may get to consult a lawyer sometimes as late as 8 weeks after arrest, and in any case after police have extracted statements from him.”

http://www.wp.org.sg/news/hammer_online/07_death_penalty_debate.htm

Sylvia Lim:

Statements from accused:

“Clearly, an accused person’s statement confessing to a crime is extremely incriminating, and, under our law, a confession alone without any other evidence is a good basis to convict someone. In fact, under our Evidence Act as interpreted by case law, a statement by a co-accused person which incriminates an accused may also alone be the basis of a conviction. This goes against the position in other jurisdictions which have consistently warned themselves against relying on accomplice’s statements; after all, if one is in a sinking ship, it is human instinct to drag others down as well.

Under our Criminal Procedure Code, a voluntary statement made by an accused to or in the hearing of a police officer ranked Sergeant and above becomes admissible in evidence at his trial. This may be unobjectionable but for the fact that the statement which the accused made need not be in writing i.e. it can be oral. What this means is that a police officer can make a note (even a mental note) of what he heard the accused person saying, without any acknowledgement from the accused as to the accuracy of what the officer is noting. The officer can then come to court later to testify that the accused had said certain things.”

Sylvia Lim:

Access to resources:

“A person accused of a capital crime in Singapore does face difficulties in preparing his defence. He will usually be denied bail and be remanded in custody pending his trial, which means he can only talk to his lawyer in prison in person or through correspondence. He will thus be fully dependent on his lawyer and, possibly, his family’s resources to secure factual evidence (e.g. witnesses) to support his defence.

If an accused has finances and is able to pay his lawyer well, the defence will be able to go all out in doing its own investigations and spare no expense in putting forth the defence. However, where an accused has no money to engage a lawyer or the lawyer he wants, the state will assign one to him (note: only if the charge attracts the death penalty; in all other cases there is no state-funded legal aid).

Lawyers who are assigned by the state endeavour to do their best for their clients. However, there are some constraints. For instance, if the assigned lawyer thinks that putting up a good defence would require him to travel overseas or to bring in a foreign expert witness, such expenditure would require approval from the High Court registrar, which may or may not be given.”

Sylvia Lim:

The burden of proof:

“The prosecution in Singapore still has to prove its case against the accused beyond reasonable doubt. However, some laws have made things easier for the prosecution by presuming facts against the accused once certain basic facts have been proved.

For instance, under the Misuse of Drugs Act, once the prosecution proves that a person has control over a container or bag, it is presumed that he knows the contents (even if the bag is locked up by someone else), and if drugs are found inside it, he is further presumed to know the nature of the drug. The burden then falls on him to disprove it i.e. the accused must prove that he did not know he was carrying drugs, and he must prove it on a balance of probabilities i.e. convince the judge that his version is more likely to be true.”

“We may not like foreign agencies criticizing us; at the same time, we had better be sure we have a system where there are sufficient safeguards against wrongful convictions, especially if the outcome is an execution.”

- Sylvia Lim.

http://www.wp.org.sg/news/hammer_online/07_death_penalty_debate.htm

In light of all the above flaws spelt out by Sylvia Lim (and there are more flaws than those she mentioned), no one in his right mind and who has a conscience would defend the death penalty.

Those who do are wilfully ignoring the serious flaws in the system.

Singapore is one of the Portals To Hell.

1) Singapore, Japan and the U.S. are the only fully developed countries that have retained the death penalty

2)Countries that currently have statutory provisions for the death penalty for drug-related offences : Afghanistan,Bangladesh, Brunei , Republic of China , Egypt, India, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Loas, Malaysia, Oman , Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Thailand, United States, Vietnam , Zimbabwe

3) Religious views of Death Penalty / Death Sentence / Capital Punishment

Buddhism–There is disagreement among Buddhists as to whether or not Buddhism forbids the death penalty. The first of the Five Precepts (Panca-sila) is to abstain from destruction of life. Chapter 10 of the Dhammapada states:Everyone fears punishment; everyone fears death, just as you do. Therefore do not kill or cause to kill. Everyone fears punishment; everyone loves life, as you do. Therefore do not kill or cause to kill

Judaism–The official teachings of Judaism approve the death penalty in principle but the standard of proof required for application of death penalty is extremely stringent, and in practice, it has been abolished by various Talmudic decisions, making the situations in which a death sentence could be passed effectively impossible and hypothetical

Islam–Scholars of Islam hold it to be permissible but the victim or the family of the victim has the right to pardon. In Islamic jurisprudence (Fiqh), to forbid what is not forbidden is forbidden. Consequently, it is impossible to make a case for abolition of the death penalty, which is explicitly endorsed. Crimes that have fallen under this description have included: (1) Treason, when one helps an enemy of the Muslim community; (2) Apostasy, when one leaves the faith; (3) Land, sea, or air piracy; (4) Rape; (5) Adultery; (6) Homosexual behaviour

Christianity–Although some interpret that Jesus’ teachings condemn the death penalty in The Gospel of Luke and The Gospel of Matthew regarding Turning the other cheek, and John 8:7 in which Jesus intervenes in the stoning of an adulteress, rebuking the mob with the phrase “may he who is without sin cast the first stone”, others consider Romans 13:3-4 to support it. Also, Leviticus 20:2-27 has a whole list of situations in which execution is supported. Christian positions on this vary The sixth commandment (fifth in the Roman Catholic and Lutheran churches) is preached as ‘Thou shalt not kill’ by some denominations and as ‘Thou shalt not murder’ by others. As some denominations do not have a hard-line stance on the subject, Christians of such denominations are free to make a personal decision

Roman Catholic Church–The Church classes capital punishment as a form of “lawful slaying”, a view derived from the thought of theological authorities such as Thomas Aquinas, who accepted the death penalty as a necessary deterrent and prevention method, but not as a means of vengeance. In Evangelium Vitae, Pope John Paul II suggested that capital punishment should be avoided unless it is the only way to defend society from the offender in question, opining that punishment “ought not go to the extreme of executing the offender except in cases of absolute necessity:

Eastern Orthodox Christianity–Eastern Orthodox Christianity generally has a negative view of the death penalty, but there is little said either way in this religion.

Esoteric Christianity–The Rosicrucian Fellowship and many other Christian esoteric schools condemn capital punishment in all circumstances

“I have got more important issues to worry about.” – then-PM Goh Chok Tong, when asked by the BBC why he did not know the number of people executed in Singapore under the death penalty law.

I do not condone the taking of another’s life, nor that 2 wrongs can make any one right.
But if the Death Penalty is going to be upheld regardless, at least, change the method to Lethal Injection – it is more humane, and least brutal.

Executing the drug mule kills the only evidence that leads to the drug lord. The people who calls for Yong’s execution because they hate drug pushers are the very ones who let the drug lords go. More harm will be done to our society by killing off the informer and not go after the whole ring of drug lords.

Who will do it? Who dares to touch these sophisticated lords? Therefore the only evidence needs to be destroyed. Therefore Yong needs to die. This cruel sinful world is doomed and continues to be doomed because mankind continues to be sinful and evil. The only way out is salvation of the divine kind; heaven is still the best place to be.

Why don’t the govt, the police, the anti-narcotics people make use of the drug couriers as a means to lead them to the drug lords?

Why insist upon getting rid of the evidence (or source of evidence) through deliberate state-sponsored murder of a small fry and in so doing, inadvertently collaborating with the drug lords, helping them to destroy the very link that can lead back to them?

Execution of a drug courier is simply an easy way out. Such an act is not only against common sense, but also flawed in law and in convention. It is simply a no-brainier infused with cruelty and sadism.

Why if the drug courier was fixed and is actually innocent? Has the authorities thoroughly investigated the case as to his innocence or was it a case of the Prosecution and Police simply extract a confession out of the accused who was under duress, threat, confusion, undue influence, without legal counsel? If it is the latter, then the blood of the deadly convicted is on the hands not only of the Prison Executioner but also upon those who gave orders for him to be killed/murdered.

As a human being, capital punishment is barbaric, cruel, inhumane and sadistically insane. No compassionate and thinking people should allow such a form of punishment in this modern era. What happened to all your education, culture, decorum, sanity?

The circular argument that drug traffickers cause the death of drug addicts is flawed. Drug traffickers merely sell the drugs as Pharmacies and Medical Shops sold the drugs. Drug traffickers sell the drugs as shops sell the cigarette, intoxicants, inhalants, poisons, insecticides, knives, etc. which can also kill. It is the responsibility of the authorities to educate people and warn people of the menace of getting addicted to drug, or to gambling or anything extreme. The authorities should not take the easy way out.

Opening up casinos to encourage people to gamble big time is worse than getting people hooked to drugs. Drug addicts may destroy themselves, but gambling addicts may destroy their whole family and society as well.

Govt sells weapons of destruction to other countries for the purpose of killing. Why are such actions condoned? Why is there no law to execute the perpetrator of such get-rich-quick inhuman acts? Just because it is from govt to govt? Just because such acts are being done by those who have power?

When a law is seen as bullying the weak, which it is supposed to protect, it is flawed.

When a law is seen as protecting the powerful against the weak, it is flawed.

When a law is seen as protecting the educated against the uneducated, it is flawed.

When a law is seen as supporting the rich to exploit the poor, it is flawed.

When a law is seen as providing the Prosecution a passage of ease in prosecuting without the burden of proof and restricting the judgment of the Judiciary without flexibility, it is totally and entirely FLAWED!

Responsible authorities who allowed a flawed law to continue to be used to convict and punish people (who may be innocent or partially innocent of the offence they were accused of) are not only irresponsible but their motive questionable.

i concur with Tan Cheng Huas #25
A conviction based on presumption in injustice.
Only our Parliament could pass a law like that without
actual debate.
Just like the Public Order Act, where a one-man
protest is considered an illegal ‘assembly’

Drug trafficking is a serious crime that should be stopped. But the problem is, whether the youths transporting the drug, ought to be implicated in this crime too? Did he commit the crime with a gun to his head, out of greed, or out of desperate money/family situations?

I’m also interesting to know whether the police has made any attempts to offer him a lighter sentence in return for intelligence?

Perhaps he should have been served a jail sentence, then sent back to his home country for further jurisdiction instead.

We should separate the two things- whether the law is right and whether clemency should be given.

IMO, clemency should only be given in very special circumstances, with very obvious mitigating circumstances etc. What is the point of having laws when we flinch every time we are to exact the laws? Laws, regardless of what, will have no meaning if they are not enforced.

—-

Instead, the issue should be: Does the punishment fit the crime.. and if not, we should focusing on changing the law (and not the enforcement of the law).

Perhaps the debate here is a little one-sided. No one has mentioned about the harm that drugs inflict. Drug addiction kills people, inflicting a slow death. And what is worse than just killing the addict, it inflicts emotional trauma on the addict’s family and drains them of their financial resources.

I am not sure how much is 42.7g of herorin to drug addicts, but I’m sure that it KILLS multiple drug addicts and destroy many singaporean families.

—–

The purpose of pointing this out is because most commenters look at the punishment without looking at the consequence of the crime.

Now that both sides has been presented, we can decide what is the fitting punishment for the person who paddle drugs, indirectly killing multiple drug addicts and destroying many singaporean families.

Finally, I’m glad justice is justifiably done!

Singapore will be a much safer place from illegal drugs abuse, and the well-being of our youths are protected by the wise decision of the President.

Death to all despicable and unscrupulous drug lords and traffickers!

15&17) No Scholar

There are always differents schools o thoughts in juvenile deliquence and rehabitation.
Is it the society/environment that make them do it ?
Is it they are born “bad”?

I personally do not believe anyone is born “bad”.
And as such all actions is always caused by some other factors, and that make crime prevention very challenging.
Where do we draw the line of this blame game?
A murderer who has “murderous” family/social background be not guilty because it is not his fault?
The guy who throw his baby out of his window could have done it in a moment of grevious emotional upheaval. Do we also forgive him?
I have no answer to that, and I am glad I am not the judge who has to mete out such difficult decisons.

On your other point, I have nothing against going after the drug lords, and I do not know what the gahmen is doing on that.

Did someone just sang the tune ” To err is human, to forgive devine”? Did our President not heard of the tune ?

22) Muhamad Nur

Amazing, when i saw this “People died quickly from drug addiction. It’s not like cigarettes at all. It can be lethal and normally it is.” I just swoon with admiration at how perceptive and knowledgeable you are.

So you think cigarettes isn’t lethal and people don’t die from it? perhaps not instantly, but decades down the road, the smoker may die from various cancer, and that’s not including the pain and suffering…do you know what some people call cigarettes? they call it coffin’s nail….every cigarettes you smoke shorten the lifespan by approximately 10mins….

so don’t assume that cigarette is the lesser evil….in fact since it is so easily available, it is the bigger evil

52) Yamamoto

I have the inenviable experience of observing someone I know dyng slowly of throat cancer from cigs.

Also watch this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PE0FDhm0-E

To all of you that have condemned Yong Vui Kong, may you learn the meaning of compassion when one day, you are faced with a crisis in your life and seek forgiveness and help. May that pain that you experience then bring you fond memories of how you have so harshly judged this poor young boy.

54) Samaritan

That is a terrible wish to wish upon others

Mavis, since you are so bent against drugs, why don’t you lobby for the total ban of alcohol, cigarettes and the ‘legal’ prescription of hallucinogens to mental patients?

Alcohol to date, has destroyed so many families because of alcohol abuse and drink driving accidents. Yet alcohol is so easily available.

Cigarette smoking in the long run may cause cancer and other health complications. Slow and painful death, for the sufferer and heartbreaking for most family members. Yet cigarettes are so easily available nowadays too.

Hallucinogens are usually prescribed to mental patients and patients suffering from clinical depression in our local hospitals here. A cousin of mine was in Tan Tock Seng for depression and the dosage was way overboard to the extent that she was not only ‘happy suddenly’ but she could see and hear the ceiling dancing and singing with her in joy. Very helpful huh? Well and guess what, the hallucinogens normally prescribed come from the same natural sources of ‘banned and illegal drugs’ and sometimes they are in fact exactly what has been deemed illegal.

You want to talk about the government trying to support a drug free Singapore, first ask yourselves why we have Burmese drug lords in our midsts. The hanging of a 21 year old boy is just another cruel and hypocritical move of the government when it comes to the “war on drugs”. All a load of bullshite and I can’t believe how some people can buy that.

Personally, in this case, I don’t think death penalty is the way to go. And it’s disturbing that some of us actually supported the death penalty in this case.

Sad part is, not many of us realised how hard our own government is playing us. While the ones dictating all these laws are laughing in the background, here we are blaming each other on who’s being compassionate and who’s not.

Does anyone not see the strings attached to us by the “puppet masters”? We all know it is wrong to take a life like that. Yet they are able to make us blame each other. In the end, they will just say that the law is in place for a reason and if they pardon one, they will have to pardon many in future. That’s how it works they say, and then we just nodded and “learn” to accept “reality”.

How did it get to this? Karl Marx will be proud of Singapore today.

57 Niagara,

Which is why we should come to own conclusions about such issues through debate and discussion, not wholesale obedience to some value system that we didn’t tangibly participate in, but rather told to adopt.

53) KopitiamApek

Tell me about it…I watch my own grandfather suffer due to lung cancer, from smoking

So the others out there, don’t think that just because cigarette can be purchase easily doesn’t mean it is harmless

It’s really sad and unjustifiable. He is obviously not a trafficker, but just a runner. It’s also unfair when you read a China bride kill her brother in law and attempted to murder his wife get 16 years sentence while someone who killed a boy get hanged. I’m not against punishment, if anyone does a same crime like murder, the punishment should be same. I’m not for the death penalty, but the rule of law must be consistent and just while sending out a message of compassion and forgiveness. As for the young life that will be wiped out for the reason of just being at the wrong place for the wrong reasons, rehabilitation would have been a preferred option. We talk so much of compassion for the needy, let not forget those who were disenchanted in the pursuit of higher standards of living set by our government.

My prayers are with him and everyone with similar fate.

Muhammad Nur,

Yes there are many tragic stories of drug abuse and deaths as a result of that. But there are also stories of successful rehabilitation. The question that you need to answer is, do you want to live in a society that rather turn a blind eye and end young lives needlessly or one that has compassion and believes in second chances to provide a ray of hope when there is none. If you weigh the two, the benefits of the latter are so much, much more for society and country.

Killing an ant won’t bring down an ant hill.

To all of you that have supported Yong Vui Kong, may you learn the meaning of retribution when one day, you are faced with a crisis when your loved ones’ life were being ruined and you see them get wasted by illegal drugs made available by drug traffickers like Yong Yui Kong. May that pain that you experience then bring you fond memories of how you have so supported and justify the actions of a drug trafficker – Yong Vui Kong!

Mavis,

Your last comment is disallowed. Please refrain from name-calling.

Anti Samaritan,

If one day you are caught in a situation where you wished someone would give you a second chance, a chance to do things differently, you’ll discover what you’ve said about Yong Vui Kong was wrong and inappropriate.

To Anti-samaritan,

To all of you that have not supported Yong Vui Kong, may you learn the meaning of retribution when one day, you are faced with a crisis when your loved ones’ life were being ruined and you see them get wasted by alcohol and cigarettes made available to everyone in stores like NTUC Fairprice and Cheers. May that pain that you experience then bring you fond memories of how you have so condemned Yong Vui Kong!

Doesn’t wash.

Dear Mavis, it is a very well known fact that Lo Hsing Han and his son Steve Law have been operating their drug empire back home in Burma while also running companies in various parts of Asia and Singapore as some form of a ‘cover up’. They are now residing in Singapore and Steve Law married a Singaporean Cecilia Ng. You can google their names and get the facts that you need.

Comeon, everyone knows. The government knows of their existence. They are not here without links and networks. Lo and Law have close ties with the Burmese Junta and so does our government. What can the police do? Basically nothing.

Yong was only 19 when he did this believing naively that he won’t get into any form of trouble. He used the money paid to him spending not on himself but on his very own mother who is clinically depressed and certified to have schizophrenia for many years now as it was her birthday days before his ‘crime’.

Yes I agree that he should be punished but a death sentence? We talk about second chance all the time and we have the yellow ribbon campaign this and that but what are we actually doing here? We are denying a young man a chance to repent. Is this not hypocritical to you?

As part of the anti death penalty campaign, I had the opportunity to speak to his first lawyer and siblings, to hear from their side and his side of the story. I am not hiding behind TOC, but I am out there campaigning. Thanks but no thanks for your nice little allegations but no, I won’t take it personally.

I think however, you have not really responded to my suggestion about you lobbying for the ban of alcohol, cigarettes and the ‘legal’ prescriptions of hallucinogens to mental patients.

You have your stand, I have mine. I personally believe that the death penalty is not the way. Violence against violence won’t end the whole violence cycle. Violence against ‘drug offenders’ won’t end the whole drug mule/ drug trafficking system. In fact in some cases, as admitted by our chief justice himself, an innocent person can also be hung.

Just a link for the interested ones:

Burma Singapore Drug Trade
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Global_Secrets_Lies/BurmaSingapore_Drugs.html

There are many more worse things in this world that can ruin lives & entire societies – e.g. gambling, alcohol, cigarettes, etc.

Let’s petition the President to impose death penalty on those who “traffick” such items as well. If he refuse, there is inconsistency in judgment and he deserves the very sentence suffered by these young innocent ones.

Rachel, I like how you want to conveniently navigate yourself through linking cigarettes and alcohol to illegal drugs…good try but can I ask you as to how many of your relatives are smoking and drinking, and how many of them have their lives ruined and wasted away by the effects of cigarettes and alcohol comparing to the effects of illegal drugs?

My great grandfather is 93 now, and he is still smoking and drinking away happily…do you think he will survive that long if he did the same with heroin? I just found it amusing how people can conveniently link the effects of smoking and drinking with that of a highly potent and life endangering drug like heroin!

You wrote – ““Comeon, everyone knows. The government knows of their existence. They are not here without links and networks. Lo and Law have close ties with the Burmese Junta and so does our government. What can the police do? Basically nothing.””

What has Lo and Law private business ties and their private business got to do with Singapore government? Nothing…but it was again the clear imagination and selective accusation that camps like you want to conveniently point your fingers but with no substance, proof nor evidence to implicate Singapore government (and you are fully aware that you do not have a case nor the evidence to support it, but still decided to conveniently use it to justify and make your “cause” looks righteous, that’s all).

Cmon…again, this is your one-sided speculation! The link which you had provided is also a highly speculative article without any substances or proof or evidence provided. Do you think if both the authors have their way and evidences, they will just let the Singapore government off, and no do anything about it. Why not you challenge Leslie Kean and Dennis Bernstein to bring their great article to the United Nation, or the EU, or the US Congress to bring Singapore government to justice?

Better still, why not TOC featured the article and ask the Singapore government to response to what was written in the article…I really can’t wait to see the PAPies defending themselves against such accusations…you and TOC will be doing us all a favor!

I mentioned that there was a clear case and concrete proof against Yong Vui Kong’s crime, can you substantiate in the same manners with concrete proof the accusations that you (and Leslie Kean and Dennis Bernstein) had leveled at the Singapore government? Or you still prefer to use one-sided and unsubstantiated accusation to simply and conveniently justify your case?

Yes, you believe in your cause and I believe in mine, but to fight for one cause without considering the overall and lingering effects that Yong Vui Kong’s crime had created, the misery it had bought forth to so many young lives and wrenching pain it had inflicted on many parents, is still highly hypocritical!

Where there are people, there will be vice. They come disguised a drugs, booze, cigs, prostitution, shoplifting, homocide, and the list goes on..
Can we ever possibly have a society free from all these? Quite hard.
Can a person be free from all these, do-able.

Dealing with Drug Lords. Drugs and Drug Pushers and Dealers

Firstly whilst SIngapore turns a blind eye at best to Burmese Drug Lords, the US Gov and the West will be in bed with them for politics and grand strategy. has anyone heard or bothered to read about Opium Heroin, Afghanistan and Pakistan ?

Kindly remember the US finds it hard to arrest and convict overseas drug lords. Noreiga took an Invasion, Columbia refuses to extradite their citizens to the US.

Does the death penalty actively enforced reduce drug infestation, availability of hard drugs , and yes drug related crime ? Empirically yes, just compare Singapore and say the UK US or AU, where drugs are more easily available.
Does the death penalty get rid of drugs 100% or is a perfect policy, no but does it act as a deterrent enough so that drug and drug related crime is not a problem for the average joe citizen. I would argue yes.

Can the criminal justice system be improved overall, definitely, does access to justice for death penalty cases be improved yes, but that is a far far argument for removal of the death penalty.

Locke

“Empirically yes, just compare Singapore and say the UK US or AU, where drugs are more easily available.”

… erm in terms of absolute numbers or percentage of population?

Mavis, you really think that foreign business investments and companies do not need to go through the lenses of the Singaporean Government? Lo Hsing Han is a very well known figure in the business and political sphere, he is not an ikan bili. Knowing that, they are still being given the PR status and continue living here. The UN, Amnesty International and many other human rights organisations have high lighted this. They know, but they honestly cannot do anything.

My grandad was also a smoker who lived well into his late 80s. However can you deny the fact that smoking can cause devastating health problems and the death will be slow and painful? I have also known some people who have their family lives ruined by alcohol, not only in Singapore but in various parts of Asia and the UK. Both alcohol and nicotine are drugs and they can be highly addictive too.

What I have been trying to say is that while one wants to fight the ‘war against drugs’, one must look at the larger picture too. Our government is not truly sincere in curbing the use of illegal drugs at all. They just don’t want to see drugs existing in this country but they don’t care about the opium trade that has been going on right under their noses (among their Burmese friends and into Singapore). What is a small drug mule compared to a drug lord? You think about it.

The whole point about the anti death penalty campaign is that there are many other ways the judiciary can punish those who commit crimes. Death penalty is not the way because it takes away a life and because it leaves no room for rehabilitation and repentance. We are not saying that being a drug mule is right, not saying that any other crimes are right. We are saying that death penalty is not a solution at all.

One simple question for Mavis, in order to resolve her dispute with Rachel.

Mavis,

Despite all the flaws in the current system, do you still support sending someone to death under the current system with all its flaws?

Thanks.

What happens if someone offers to take Yong’s sentence? If this is not even allowed, it simply means that they insist on transforming him from a sitting duck into a DEAD duck!

Tan Cheng Huat, so far, you have only used Sylvia Lim’s interpretation and your own personal opinion and perception (without any absolute facts or evidences) as a way to argue that the system is flawed…this means you are only making speculation and hypothesizing the “what if…”.

Perhaps the question now is, what makes you (and Sylvia Lim) think that your interpretation and hypothesis is right? Perhaps, you can show or quote cases of innocent victims who had been sent to the gallows to augment your self-perceived flaws in our system!

Perhaps too, you can also write to the Ministry Of Law to provide your personal interpretation of where the system is flawed. I am sure they will address it if you have such strong and absolute facts. Why speculate here?

My take to your question…I am not convinced as yet (due to lack of absolute facts and proofs) that we have a flawed system as hypothesized by you, and therefore, I stand by facts and evidences with regards to Yong Vui Kong’s case – that he had been proven beyond doubt for drug trafficking despite knowing the consequences, and that is what matters.

I do have questions for you too…

1) Are you agreeing that Yong Vui Kong’s crime is a small matter despite knowing full well that what he did would harm and ruin the lives of many people in Singapore?

2) What would you tell the loved ones of those whose life had been totally ruined and destroyed by drugs, bought about precisely because of the ease of accessing illegal drugs through drug traffickers like Yong Vui Kong?

3) What do you think if we rescind the death penalty, and Singapore is therefore seriously infested with drugs bought in by traffickers who know that they can now get away with just jail sentences? Will this situation be OK for you? Or are you concerned only about rescinding the death penalty but had never thought of the consequences to our society?

Mavis,

Is it your belief then, that there are no flaws in the current system?

Thank you.

Yo Mavis,

http://www.asiasentinel.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1076&Itemid=168

Mavis,
Do you believe that the person is innocent unless proven guilty? Or do you not believe this at all?

69) Mavis

Q1) What happens when you pull out a weed, but you fail to destroy the roots? and in fact let the root flourish?

Q2) What happens when you try to treat the syndrome and not the cause/core? What could be life-saving was not done, and the patient unwittingly progress into terminal stage of cancer? *low chance*

Pardon moi for saying this, but what you are advocating, the execution of small flies doesn’t solve the problem. You can kill all the small flies, but if the original host, the hive still exist, they are able to send even more “troops” in until they get the shipment through…

And when human becomes addicted to drug, don’t blame it on the trafficker…they have only themselves to blame…it takes two hands to clap and the drug addict is not defenseless….or uneducated…in fact, we see quite a number of drug users with high profile background too

“I just found it amusing how people can conveniently link the effects of smoking and drinking with that of a highly potent and life endangering drug like heroin!”

Mavis, I trust you are educated…right? So i find it amusing that you associate heroin as highly potent and life endangering drug…while cigarette isn’t…Oh, and incidentally, you may have miss out the fact that heroin or diamorphine, is use as a strong analgesic in medical cases such as end-stage cancer…Thus, this drugs were originally design for medical uses and it is people who perverse its usage for personal pleasure….and have you ever hear of any medical use for cigarette?

now let me ask you this, a very simple question…which 1 is more dangerous and life endangering….a trident-ii Intercontinental ballistic missile that has 8 times the yield of the “Little Boy” or guns and bullets?

Now dear Mavis, do not mess up destructive power with life-threatening and dangerous…a trident-ii can wipe us off the map in seconds, but since it is not available off the shelf, most people can’t get it and use it…

then we look at the guns and bullets…it can be purchase easily and if you are lucky, a bullet can kill 1 or 2 person…not as powerful as a trident-ii….and now comes another question….which 1 kills more people….do you see terrorist use nuke to take out target? or do you see innocent people getting killed by guns and bullets?

and as for your question in no.69 *nice number btw*, although I am not Rachel and it is not directed at me, including my dear grandfather, I have seen 3 relatives that suffer from the post effect of smoking and i expect the number to increase in the future with my friends as part of the statistic….but ironically, none of my relatives and friends suffer from drug abuse and its post effect… so if you are looking at it from a maths point of view…the ratio of my close one suffering from cigarette vis a vis drug is an infinite amount….

And lastly, Mavis, it is people like you, who assume that cigarette is not as bad as drugs that will result in more casualty…

and to end it off “Cigarettes kill more Americans than alcohol, car accidents, suicide, AIDS, homicide, and illegal drugs combined. ” So wise up Mavis…

“The whole point about the anti death penalty campaign is that there are many other ways the judiciary can punish those who commit crimes. Death penalty is not the way because it takes away a life and because it leaves no room for rehabilitation and repentance. We are not saying that being a drug mule is right, not saying that any other crimes are right. We are saying that death penalty is not a solution at all. – Rachel Zeng.

My full agreement.

Mavis,

drug trafficking is a serious offence because we humans claim it to be. Drug trafficking is a serious offence because it ruin the lives of singaporeans, you say?

now now, perhaps its time to stop playing the blaming game. why would yong be accountable to the families of drug consumers? do they not have the choice of chosing not to take drugs?

if you want to talk about the law, how about saying these people who take drugs know very well that drugs are illegal in singapore, yet they chose to take it? maybe it’s time to realize that responsibility boils down to the individual and the circumstances society dictates. if given a choice, given the opportunity for a respectable job, who would choose to be a drug trafficker? he was unable to continue his education – should he then blame the education system for not fulfilling its duty?

it is to be understood a cumulation of events often lead up to one little mistake; if something must be blamed for a person’s drug habits, blame the events, not the drug runner.

these are questions perhaps one should ask and not just agree with whatever ‘values’ the government imposes on us, surely as thinking beings, we value the life of another, and sympathize with those who do not have our fortune – our education, our job, our lives. maybe it’s time to use a little more of your heart, or just look at things from a different point of view.

Amnesty International’s: Death Penalty Q&A: http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/ACT50/010/2007/en/f45ed09c-d3a2-11dd-a329-2f46302a8cc6/act500102007en.html

82) de. on November 29th, 2009 12.09 am
these are questions perhaps one should ask and not just agree with whatever ‘values’ the government imposes on us…

I would venture to guess that most of pple in TOC do not simply agree with whatever the govt imposes. In fact, the trend is likely to be the other way around. i.e people oppose whatever govt imposes.

YET, there is support for the death sentence. In fact, I am wondering if you are appealing to the ‘nature’ of the people here in TOC to do exactly that (oppose govt values) and ironically, asking us NOT to think.

The young man should not donate his organs after this execution at all! He had already paid with his life……

I support death penalty to deal with serious crimes in Singapore, but in this case the Idiot President should use his $3million brain to do some useful work and thinking by pardoning him.

He was an obvious mule for the drug lords which we have some shady dealings with them especially from Myanmar.

Why we do not hear any extradition orders to arrest those drug lords involved?

Our youth in their 19 years had just finished JC or final year in Poly, this young man in his 20s is to be hanged for the crime committed when he was 19 years is really sad case…..

With reference to ‘death penalty’, the Singapore government also deserve its own ‘death penalty’, in fact, especially the minister who authorised cigarettes for sale. How so? Death-penalty-drugs are not so easily obtained by common folks as compare to cigarettes, where it can be purchased 24×7hrs. Cigarettes kill many more people in Singapore than real drugs do. Which minister approved cigarettes?

By the way, Mavis, you might want to refer to my post #25 above.

You may have missed it.

Those are not facts plucked out of thin air.

But before we go any further, I would appreciate if you could answer this simple question (I apologise for repeating it but I am hoping you would not miss it):

Is it your belief then, that there are no flaws in the current system?

Thank you.

77) Tan Cheng Hua on November 28th, 2009 10.15 pm

You asked Mavis a question and s/he answered. Then his/her turn to ask… and you DON’T answer. Why is that?

lobo76,

Be patient. I will answer her questions. ;)

Once we have resolved my original question. Otherwise, it will get confusing. ;)

80) Yamamoto on November 28th, 2009 11.29 pm
Pardon moi for saying this, but what you are advocating, the execution of small flies doesn’t solve the problem. You can kill all the small flies, but if the original host, the hive still exist, they are able to send even more “troops” in until they get the shipment through…

Where is the economic part in your analogy? Does ‘more troops’ still result in a good ROI?

including my dear grandfather, I have seen 3 relatives that suffer from the post effect of smoking and i expect the number to increase in the future with my friends as part of the statistic…

I can’t wait to read about what you have done to ban/reducing cigarettes in Singapore. Surely you did something since 3 relatives have already been affected?

89) Tan Cheng Hua on November 29th, 2009 1.17 am

Your ‘original’ question is in 74…. in fact, the way your framed your question in 77 with a “Is it THEN” shows that it is not the original question.

So before Mavis answers your ‘then’ question, I tot it would be polite to answer his/her question since s/he answer yours (in 74)

Pardon me but Mavis, I would like to know how familiar you are with the Death Penalty law in Singapore. Have you read up on it? Do you know the provisions in it? Are you familiar with the doubts and concerns raised by various people and organisations?

I ask this not to belittle you but to know where we can start off in this discussion.

(If you are not familiar, I shall not discuss this further as it would be tedious and painstaking to have to point out basic points and provisions. We would just be going round in circles. An endless and useless endeavour, if you will excuse me. From your vehement defence of the law, I take it that you are familiar with the provisions in the law, the concerns raised and perhaps even the details of the more controversial cases?)

Thank you.

Thank you.

lobo76,

Be patient.

[...] President rejects clemency petition for Yong Vui Kong [...]

Tan Cheng Huat, I’ve already answered your question! I was expecting answers from you with regards to my questions.

It is fruitless to continue our discussion, as you are not going to change my support for death penalty, and I am not going to change your view about rescinding it.

At the end of the day, the due process of the law had taken place based on facts and evidences, and as far as Yong Vui Kong’s case is concerned, he had been proven guilty with all evidences being properly and meticulously presented.

To further reiterate my answer to you, let it be known that I will stick to facts and evidences, and not speculations, rumours, personal opinions or hypothesis which cannot be proven nor substantiated.

And since it is based on facts and evidences, it is no longer about my beliefs in whether the system is flawed or not (but whether those condemning facts and evidences presented were sound or not).

Of course, there will be individuals who feels that his or her personal beliefs are above those facts and evidences presented in court. In which case, there’s no point arguing further about personal perceptions and opinions that cannot be substantiated at all.

Good day!

this sucks! there are so many cases in which a certain group of people found with drugs are not sent to the gallows straightaway – the angmoh girl from germany, and the nmp’s son etc etc.

in essence, this gahmen is intent on sending a message to the plebians that “thou shall not traffick in drugs” by executing plebians.

when it comes to young charges of important people, this gahmen helps by various means e.g. police oblige by saying it’s only 14.99g! judges help by “considering” the background of the accused and therefore a community-based sentence is more appropriate.

in singapore, law is law. but which set of law to be applied depends on which set of people you’re in.

my sympatheties to the family of yong vui kong.

@ #95) Mavis on November 29th, 2009 4.49 am

Facts and evidence, my foot!

Where are your facts and evidence?

Nothing from you except words, words, words – and CUNNING.

90) lobo76

If 1 bullet doesn’t kill you, i will just fire more….until it does…cabish? now you are talking about ROI….lobo, how much does it cost to plant and produce drugs? and at how many times profit do they sell it? with that huge of a margin, even when a fail trafficker fails but some got through, they will still profit….

and come on….47g of heroin? do you seriously think druglords just ship 47g per pax of miserable heroin, and who do they sell it too? do you think there is economic of scale? since you are talking about ROI?

Oh yes, if you are asking about cigarette awareness, i wouldn’t do something as futile as “ban/reducing cigarettes in Singapore” something that only some people who live in their ideal little world will think of…that will be just like 鸡蛋碰石头。 smashing an egg against a wall….how often do you see our legislation change? well, for cigarette, the last time i remember something was done about it is printing that few letters on it to identify it as legal cigarettes…

however futile that may be Lobo, i don’t think you understand that to treat a problem, you have to start at the people…creating awareness of the harm that cigarette does through various campaign…and that’s what i volunteer to do sometimes

and lastly Lobo, are you Mavis? LoL…just to end it off, for people like you, who think that evil should be ban/reduce/whatever are really too idealistic…you cannot remove evil, but you can reduce its presence

Mavis,

So I take it that it is your belief that there are no flaws in the current system.

Thank you. Now we can proceed.

Before we do, a point of clarification. I was not asking you about the particular case of Yong Vui Kong. I was asking you a broader question about the death penalty and how it is applied in S’pore.

Give me some time to answer your questions. (It’s a Sunday and I have to be with my family… )

Thank you.

And oh lobo76, since you are questioning, perhaps you can join in too? you can educate yourself and your friends around you before it is too late…by that time, pass the tipping point, education and awareness won’t turn back the effect…

[i]To further reiterate my answer to you, let it be known that I will stick to facts and evidences, and not speculations, rumours, personal opinions or hypothesis which cannot be proven nor substantiated. [/i]

cannot be proven nor substantiated? personal opinions?
whoa! you are indeed from the famiLLEE of leekuanyew
rumours..ha ha ha
i am LAUGHIN OUT LOUD rollin on the floor as well

Dear Mavis,

Thank you for your patience. I shall now answer the 3 questions you have directed at me. (Your questions are in bold.)

1) Are you agreeing that Yong Vui Kong’s crime is a small matter despite knowing full well that what he did would harm and ruin the lives of many people in Singapore?

No.

2) What would you tell the loved ones of those whose life had been totally ruined and destroyed by drugs, bought about precisely because of the ease of accessing illegal drugs through drug traffickers like Yong Vui Kong?

I would offer them my condolences.

3) What do you think if we rescind the death penalty, and Singapore is therefore seriously infested with drugs bought in by traffickers who know that they can now get away with just jail sentences? Will this situation be OK for you? Or are you concerned only about rescinding the death penalty but had never thought of the consequences to our society?

Clearly, Mavis, this is hypothetical and speculative. I thought you were saying you would only go on facts?

Thank you.

Now, lets move on. I shall proceed to point out the flaws (as I see them and hopefully also, present factual back-ups for them) in the system in my next post.

Thank you. Lets move on to the issue at hand – the system and the application of the death penalty itself in Singapore.

Dear Mavis,

Lets start with the issue of PRESUMPTION OF GUILT provided in the Law. The following is an extract from the Misuse Of Drugs Act concerning the trafficking of contravene drugs.

[Bold emphases are mine].

Misuse of Drugs Act, Chp 185, Part III, (17)

Presumption concerning trafficking

17. Any person who is proved to have had in his possession more than —

(a) 100 grammes of opium;
(b) 3 grammes of morphine;
(c) 2 grammes of diamorphine;
(d) 15 grammes of cannabis;
(e) 30 grammes of cannabis mixture;
(f) 10 grammes of cannabis resin;
(g) 3 grammes of cocaine;
(h) 25 grammes of methamphetamine;
(ha) 113 grammes of ketamine; or
(i) 10 grammes of any or any combination of the following:
(i) N, α-dimethyl-3,4-(methylenedioxy)phenethylamine;
(ii) α-methyl-3,4-(methylenedioxy)phenethylamine; or
(iii) N-ethyl-α−methyl-3,4-(methylenedioxy)phenethylamine,

whether or not contained in any substance, extract, preparation or mixture, shall be presumed to have had that drug in possession for the purpose of trafficking unless it is proved that his possession of that drug was not for that purpose.
[38/89;40/93; 20/98;2/2006]

Presumption of possession and knowledge of controlled drugs

18. —(1) Any person who is proved to have had in his possession or custody or under his control —

(a) anything containing a controlled drug;
(b) the keys of anything containing a controlled drug;
(c) the keys of any place or premises or any part thereof in which a controlled drug is found; or
(d) a document of title relating to a controlled drug or any other document intended for the delivery of a controlled drug,

shall, until the contrary is proved, be presumed to have had that drug in his possession.

(2) Any person who is proved or presumed to have had a controlled drug in his possession shall, until the contrary is proved, be presumed to have known the nature of that drug.

(3) The presumptions provided for in this section shall not be rebutted by proof that the accused never had physical possession of the controlled drug.

(4) Where one of 2 or more persons with the knowledge and consent of the rest has any controlled drug in his possession, it shall be deemed to be in the possession of each and all of them.

Dear Mavis, please take some time to think of the various consequences of the provisions before we move forward.

Take a day or two.

Thank you.

No wonder the Press-sit-dent has so many illnesses!

Put too many people to death, right?

Retribution may be slow to come but it will surely come. Have NO doubt about it.

When the subjects request for mercy and mercy is not forthcoming, then when the time for you to pray for mercy, would mercy come your way?

Merciless Gahmen and merciless Press-sit-dent do not deserve the kindness of the citizens. When the time comes for action, Singaporeans, please remember to give the just deserts to the merciless.

Come, come.

We are here to present our views, not beat each other over the head with them. Please, Singaporeans, if we go on like this in the forums, the government will have good grounds to dismiss plurality online, offline and in parliament, as merely conducive to quarrels and disputes and word-wrangling.

Let’s demonstrate that we are capable of coming together with different opinions and then, parting amicably, without name calling or dismissing dissenting views out of hand.

84) lobo76 on November 29th, 2009 1.01 am

YET, there is support for the death sentence. In fact, I am wondering if you are appealing to the ‘nature’ of the people here in TOC to do exactly that (oppose govt values) and ironically, asking us NOT to think.
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apologies if i did not make myself clear enough. my previous post was directed at Mavis, not the general public in TOC. i do not get what you mean in your aforemention statement, but nonetheless the values i was refering to in this specific case meant death for the drug runner yong, not the death penalty per se.

to mavis “What do you think if we rescind the death penalty, and Singapore is therefore seriously infested with drugs bought in by traffickers who know that they can now get away with just jail sentences? Will this situation be OK for you? Or are you concerned only about rescinding the death penalty but had never thought of the consequences to our society?”

LOLOLOLOLOL…

you know Singapore allows PRs and foreigners with local convictions of serious crimes to remain in Singapore, why don’t you also campaign for their removal as well?

the fact that singapore is infested with PRs and foreigner Ex-convicts does not seem to bother you in the least, as compared to the activists’ efforts to commute death sentence of a drug mule.

which brings about more dire “consequences to the society”? allowing PR and foreign EX-CONVICTS in mainstream society, or commuting drug mules’ sentence to life imprisonment with no parole?

Tan Cheng Hua, you rock!

That’s a compliment by the way.

One more for interested readers although it is an old one:

Was innocent man hanged due to legal procedure?
http://www.thinkcentre.org/article.cfm?ArticleID=2187

Now before anyone here calls this off as wild accusations and speculations, let me tell you that this article was produced by Today (Online) years ago. It was also published on the Straits Times if I am not wrong. This speaks alot about the flawed system that we have.

Which is more dangerous, a flawed and rigid system of law and legal procedure that can also send an innocent man to the gallows, or drug mules bringing drugs through the customs? I leave it for all of you to decide.

And just to add on to the debate/ discussion on drug abuse…

When we equate drug traffickers to murderers and saying that they are the cause of broken families and ruined lives, we also have to think about our education on drugs and drug abuse. In general, we have been rather successful so far with that. There is also this thing called choice. Don’t tell me that everyone who sees a bag of heroin will just use it without second thoughts about consequences. Drug consumption is a choice. When there is no demand, there will be no supply. Don’t put the blame solely on drug mules. They are just part of the system and cycle of the drug trade and abuse. In fact sometimes (as shown in history) they have been used to bring drugs into our country unknowingly (for example, Amara Tochi).

I still think that yes, we can be all out against drugs but we need not do that by advocating FOR the death penalty to be used. Won’t make one less righteous or morally superior by advocating for rehabilitation instead of saying “Kill that drug mule”.

Does everyone not have a problem with the presumption clause in the law?

I think anyone with a decent healthy state of conscience would stop and think about these provisions before dismissing them.

Let me give a little illustration, to make the provisions more real.

Say, for example: That you are caught with a small packet of heroin in your bag. It is neatly-wrapped and you can’t see what’s inside.

Once the police decides that you are presumed to know about the presence of the package, and presumed to know that it is heroin, it is then you who must provide proof to rebut the police’s case.

The onus falls to you.

You must defend your innocence.

While the police only has to presume your guilt.

Nevermind that the package could have been dropped into your bag as you cleared customs in say, Bangkok.

It is quite a scary thought. Isn’t it? That you may be sent to death – based on a presumption.

Food for thought.

Indeed. I always approach Singapore customs at all points of entry with some trepidation, to the extent of always checking all clothing pockets, and compartments of hand luggage on approach, to make sure no one has slipped in something additional.

I am still undecided as to the correct (read: life-saving) course of action should a dreaded packet of “stuff” appear.

Dear Tan Cheng Hua,

You have to understand, some people believe in treating the symptoms, over and over again…instead of treating the cause to make symptoms will cease to reoccur…which in some chinese friend’s word 治表不治本? hope i get that phrase right…

and it is very common for people to appear here and declare that their views are fact while those who oppose them are views based on assumptions….

Yamamoto,

Indeed you are right. I suspect this is because of the emotive nature of the issue. When emotions get in the way, people react quite irrationally.

This is why I would like Mavis to leave her emotions aside (as displayed in the tone and words she has used) and just focus on the system and its provisions in the law.

This way, we can look at the issue dispassionately – and rationally.

I await her response to the issue of presumption.

As others have pointed out, in the meantime Singapore continues to trade with and support countries like Burma, Zimbabwe and North Korea.

This comes from simply being pragmatic to the point of having no principles and values. Sad

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The above:
Silent post in protest against the state MURDERING a young man who had in his possession a substance which should not be illegal in the first place.

Peace to Mr Yong and his family

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iKDAhN_hl4

Not I black heart, I hope one day one of our minsters’ sons / daughters will kena sabotage by a crazy fellow who inserts packets of 15.1 gm of heroin into people’s bags for fun.

Only such incident will make Singapore top-brains think harder.

ApApA,
If that happen as you wish to see, those top guys will find another “scapegoat” to go to the scaffold instead.

Better to kick him into jail and let him wash toilets until he is as old as LKY,

Brothers and Sisters

Lively exchange. I think post #82 says it best…

I used to support the death penalty for drug trafficking but now I am not sure that it works.

For those of us on this blog that is vehemently supportive of the death sentence, will you be just as supportive If the accused is someone you know?

Things are never black or white nor are they always simply right or wrong. Why do people take drugs despite knowing the harm it causes? THe fact that Yong is not the first and unfortunately, may not be the last trafficker, shows that the law isnt working as a deterrent it was intended.

A long jail term for traffickers is probably a better solution while going after the masterminds.

In any war, top strategists would plan to win the war without fighting.

But if conflict is inevitable, then the top strategists would plan to capture or destroy the leaders instead of their foot-soldiers of the opposing force.

The 3rd rate type of strategists aim to destroy the enemy’s soldiers, armies.

While the worst type of strategists (which is no strategist at all) tries to kill those who happens to get into their bases, either being planted by their leaders or strayed in by mistake.

The way the Singapore’s Anti-Narcotic Strategy is being implemented makes one concludes that it simply has no strategy whatsoever. Its meritocratic boast and its so-called pragmatic ‘wisdom’ merely make use of unprincipled, unethical, immoral and unjust means to get anything done in order to satisfy its current desire. The end justifies the means, so to speak. This kind of modus operandi is that of the dark side.

A young nation that prefers to operate on the dark side is destined to collapse one day. It is only just a matter of time. When the full force of the Light comes, like the Sumatran Tsunami, it will totally sweep away the darkness once and for all, forever!

Only time will tell. But it is inevitable, as inevitable as the social divide!

[...] are against capital punishment – TOC: President rejects clemency petition for Yong Vui Kong – Rachel Zeng’s blog: Standing against the death penalty in [...]

He did not know that he was delivering drugs. He was told they were gifts and that the boxes should not be unwrapped.

Even if he was mistaken about the above, should he be hung for it? How will it make the world a better place that he be put to death? Singaporeans – your support for this system where the accused is presumed guilty means that his blood will be on your hands.

I think that it’s sad. Knowing that you can’t change for the better. Knowing that there’s no turning back. I really think the death sentence should be reconsidered. He’s only 19. He has his whole life ahead of him. Setting a day for him to die, the Singapore government is playing God. I say Rehab instead of death sentence. Killing is tyranny.

Tan Cheng Hua,

I totally agree with you about the issue of presumption of guilt. Perhaps the only way for some of those people here to understand the predicament of some of the hapless victims of this “presumption of guilt” policy that we practice here in Singapore is for them to experience it themselves. Remember, the “presumption of guilt” is not just limited to the drug trafficking Act.

I certainly have no wish for some unfortunate event to befall them but sometimes, that is the only way people come to understand what it is all about, when the misfortune has befallen them. Life’s best lessons are the ones that we learn the hard way.

Meanwhile, I will certainly pray for Yong Vui Kong.

Samaritan,

This part especially is quite astounding, if you think about it:

“(2) Any person who is proved or presumed to have had a controlled drug in his possession shall, until the contrary is proved, be presumed to have known the nature of that drug.”

There are, as you can see, two presumptions i that one sentence.

If you’re presumed to have the drug in your possession, then you are – again – presumed to know the nature of the drug.

Now, when we talk about flaws, this is what we’re talking about. It is quite obvious to anyone, I would think, that this is a startling fact – two presumptions and a man can be sent to death based on these.

This was what Sylvia Lim was talking about – but sadly, ardent supporters of the death penalty such as Mavis, call this ” interpretation and hypothesis” and “personal interpretation”.

By no means are these such.

Mavis fails to see that this is the Law, in fact. In black and white and easily accessible to anyone who would bother to look.

I am waiting for Mavis’s response to the issue of presumption.

I hope she has not gone and buried her head in the sand.

We are taught from a young age that assumptions and presumptions are the worst forms of mistakes that we can achieve because it shows a patent reliance on less-than-whole facts and subjective opinion.

[...] Prison Service, in a letter to Yong Vui Kong’s brother, says the death sentence passed on Yong Vui Kong will be carried out on 4 December 2009. TOC understands Vui Kong’s lawyer is making a [...]

Everyone,

Latest:
The S’pore Prison Service, in a letter to Yong Vui Kong’s brother, says the death sentence passed on Yong Vui Kong will be carried out on 4 December 2009. TOC understands Vui Kong’s lawyer is making a last-ditch attempt to have the sentence set aside.

Tan Cheng Hua,

A number of years ago, I was unfortunate enough to have been “presumed guilty” of a technical breach of the law. Initially, I was confident that the case would be resolved quickly as I was sure I did not break the law in the matter that I had been involved in. The manner in which the whole process was conducted, from the day the investigation began until the day they cleared me was that I was presumed guilty from begining till the end. The stress was so much that I even began to think I was guilty. I would go for hours of interviews during which words would be put into my mouth. Had I not kept my wits about me, who knows what I might have “accidentally” confessed to.

My company spent a good deal of money on lawyers fees while my family and I suffered the anguish of being accused of somthing that I did not do. It was a truly traumatic episode. In the end, even after I was cleared of any wrong doing, I received no apology from the authorities for the less than pleasant manner in which they had treated me, nor was my company compensated in any way for the lawyers fees that they had incurred on my behalf. During that period, the investigating authority treated me like a common criminal. I will never forget that and do not wish that treatment upon anyone.

Like I mentioned earlier, perhaps people like Mavis have to go through that to understand what it feels like. Perhaps then, they might learn to be a bit more compassionate.

he was 19 years old. he wasnt as lucky as most of us given his upbringing .. but still who are we to decide as to who should live and who should die. i cannot help but feel sad that the end is so near for him. As a mother, sister and a daughter I wish things could be different Vui Kong. I truly believe that given the chance Yong Vui Kong is capable of reform….. I am almost certain most will feel the way I do if this boy was our brother, son and friend. Hate/Kill/Loathe the Sin but not the Sinner. My prayers are with his brother, mum and all his family.

He was 19………

The death penalty for any crime is harsh. Having it for countless of years but druglords still manage to get the drugs to where they want and filling their pockets with money, proved that such penalty is not working. These runners are usually stuck between having to earn money to take care of their family/daily basic necessities. Most of them are lowly educated or don’t even have the money to go to school due to their poor background. What the government should do when they do catch a runner is to get more information of the druglords and go after them and also provide counseling and protection for the runners. A positive and progressive country should and will do so and accept that human rights should be met in the 20th century. a problem is not solved if the root of the problem is not removed!

The sad fact is most 19 years old always think they could get away from it. If they were well informed, they would not have taken such a risk. For the older readers of TOC, we all know that when we were young we do silly things but not neccessary drug trafficing. For a poor uneducated boy, it just easy money. The laws need to change to take into account more fact regarding the accused. The prosecution had its easy and if I remember correctly this law had been around for a long time and it had not stopped drug trafficing into Singapore.The law of supply and demand is in operation here. Less drug mean more profit for the drug lords and more profitable for them. Going after the big boys e.g the source should be the main aim but equally the mules must be stopped. Using the mules to track back to the drug laords is easily said then done as most mules do not have a chance to meet any one of importance in a drug syndicate.

Very fortunate for the Lim Foo Seng guy, who only bought about 14g of the drug from Yong. Another gram more, and he may also have had to swing. Incidentally, I think The Straits Times should really endeavour to obtain a more detailed weightage, rather than an approximation, since it is a capital case and every gram counts.

47g less 14g. That still leaves 33g. The third guy, Reggie Gwee, must have taken less than 15g from Yong as well, or he, too, as one can see from the prison sentence imposed.

Therefore, Yong would have had 18g left after his first two contacts. That guy very lucky, never got around to meeting up. Or was Yong going to go back across the border with the remaining 18g or so?

Hmm………

It is a barbaric act to hang a person who committed crimes. At the least , life sentence is more compassionate. He should be given a 2nd chance no matter how wrong is the crime considering his age and unpleasant family background.

The mastermind of the drugs should be hanged and eradicated instead as they make used of people with money and who does not like money(only moron does) to help them to deliver drugs.
They are the one who is still enjoying themselves while others got hanged because of their intelligence of using $$$ on them.
There will be more to come if the root of the master mind continues to get away scot-free and only a uprooted tree will die.

To those who support the death sentence for drug mules, you should call for extension of the death sentence to drug lords. Then only will I take you for real. Only this will make the drug lords think thrice about making use of the vulnerable young, poor and uneducated.

The arrested drug mule should be offered the chance to pin the masterminder. Afterall he is going to die, he WILL give the names and if he is misled, all the more he WILL double-cross the bosses. Do we have a lazy drug squad or what?

Wouldn’t life sentence be good enough a deterence?

I think it’s very very sad that a life can be so easily lost to decision makers in Sg who rarely exist in the same social realm as the bulk of the population. Is this what most Singaporeans would want? If it is, I’ll readily give up my citizenship, beg Malaysia to take me. I can live with petty corruption, but not inhumane practices.

Samaritan,

Thank you for sharing your personal experiences. Indeed, it is unfortunate what you had to go through.

I do not wish the same on Mavis. This is because one must not wish what is bad on someone else, though that may seem like the best way for them to “learn”.

Nonetheless, I am disappointed that Mavis has not returned to engage in this discussion. It tells me several things about her:

1. She doesn’t want to know. She simply doesn’t.

2. Her ego is bruised in learning that there are indeed flaws in the system, contrary to her vehement denial and defence.

3. Her support for the death penalty could be based on several things: ignorance, personal experiences, or just plainly (blindly) trusting in the system.

Whichever her reasons are, she, I would say, is one of blind support – which, unfortunately, is what most S’poreans have for the death penalty.

I will come to that in my next posting.

In 2001, the Think Centre conducted an online poll with the question:

“Do you support the death penalty in Singapore?”

The results?

“83% OF SINGAPOREANS SUPPORT DEATH PENALTY

On first glance, you would think that that means S’poreans support the death penalty but what actually they believe in could be that they support their idea of the death penalty. Or more accurately, they support the idea of the death penalty according to what they have been told the death penalty is.

Now, the question one needs to ask in polls like the one by Think Centre is:

Does the average S’porean really know what the death penalty is all about when:

1. There is no – or hardly – any public debate about it?

2. The mainstream media has shied away from taking a critical look at the law which provides for the death penalty?

In short, there is a shortage of information for the general public.

And when there is a shortage of information for the general public, how does one make an informed decision to support or not support the death penalty?

This is a critical question to ask when we conduct polls like the Think Centre one.

Here’s a test: Ask 10 of your relatives the following questions and see how many of them get them right:

1. Under which law are drug traffickers put to death?

2. Are you aware of the presumption clause/s in the law? Do you know what they mean?

3. Do suspected drug traffickers have access to immediate counsel?

4. True or false: The police is expected to prove, beyond reasonable doubt, that the accused indeed trafficked in drugs. Or is the onus on the accused to prove he did not traffick in drugs?

5. True or False: Judges have the power to consider mitigating factors for the accused.

These are basic questions which most S’poreans do not know the answers to.

I suspect, too, that Mavis do not know the answers to these simple – but critical – questions.

So, how can one honestly, sincerely and clearly, support or not support the death penalty – when basic information is not made known or disseminated to the average citizen?

Tan Cheng Hua,

“3. Her support for the death penalty could be based on several things: ignorance, personal experiences, or just plainly (blindly) trusting in the system.”

I suspect that this could also apply to quite a number of the 83% of supporters of the death penalty. Whatever it is, it is a reflection of how far our society here has to go towards being a more caring, gracious and compassionate one.

If this death penalty must proceed, let the whole hanging process be filmed in full graphic & gory detail and broadcast to the whole world, especially to vulnerable youths in Singapore. This will be the best deterrent to drug crime in my opinion.

commentator,

This is a such a degrading act and even the executioner must respect the dignity of those who are going to be executed. Besides, it is very unethical to do that.

Andrew, to your point that the rule of law has been applied…

I would argue that we should look into the spirit when the law was passed.

“To stop traficking”. Does this 19 year old boy look like a trafficker to you? hanging this boy will stop the true masterminds from continuing their activities, u think? there’ll always be another mule who’s willing to risk it. Does it put a dent on the heroin trade, with this boy’s death?

Back in the 60s and 70s, when we were building our nation, i can see how this law was important. But now we’re living in the 21st century. Things have changed. We should change.

Have we heard his story yet? His background? Was it premeditated? Did circumstances forced him to do it?

Living 3 years knowing that his days are numbered, is already enough torture. If you give him another chance to live, what do you think he will do?

Just like the contraband cigarettes. We struggle in stopping contraband from coming into Singapore, so what do we do? Punish our citizens who smoke contraband. Loansharking becoming a problem? Punish the people who borrow from them. Only in singapore this happens. Why? because the people who pass these laws addresses the symptoms, not the disease.

They dont have a feel about who are the desperate people who has to go to loansharks…they dont have a feel about smokers. Smokers are people too, even if they have a disgusting habit…smokers are people who vote too, you know.

There is just no heart in our system. and that is sad.

The blood is on the heads of those that wants this young fellow dead….inhumane to kill a 19 year boy…why not send him back to M’sia?

98) Yamamoto on November 29th, 2009 10.13 am
If 1 bullet doesn’t kill you, i will just fire more….until it does…cabish? now you are talking about ROI….lobo, how much does it cost to plant and produce drugs? and at how many times profit do they sell it? with that huge of a margin, even when a fail trafficker fails but some got through, they will still profit….

Your analogy is still flawed. Bullet can be (and is usually) cheap. You still have shown me the figures of how ‘cheap’ the model is. Besides, it seems your ‘cost’ is only restricted to ‘planting and producing’ drugs. I guess the runners are ‘free’, or the process of cultivating runners (e.g making their life worse than death) is also ‘free’.

Oh yes, if you are asking about cigarette awareness…

I wasn’t. Someone else brought it up to conflate the issue. It regular happens when they have NO POINTS on the issue itself, thus bringing in other issues to make comparison.

and lastly Lobo, are you Mavis? LoL…just to end it off, for people like you, who think that evil should be ban/reduce/whatever are really too idealistic…you cannot remove evil, but you can reduce its presence

No. I actually wanted TOC to have some kind of registration scheme so that we all have consistent nicks when posting.

Who is idealistic? The one who wants to capture Drug Lords overseas or the one who wants to stop the flow locally?

113) Yamamoto on November 29th, 2009 5.11 pm
Dear Tan Cheng Hua,
You have to understand, some people believe in treating the symptoms, over and over again…instead of treating the cause to make symptoms will cease to reoccur…which in some chinese friend’s word 治表不治本? hope i get that phrase right…

What happens when the illness is an untreatable cancer?
btw, do you know you just described palliative care?

111) Tan Cheng Hua on November 29th, 2009 3.20 pm
Does everyone not have a problem with the presumption clause in the law?

I do. and If there is a call to change this part of the Law, I would of course support. Like what Samaritan mentions, this is NOT the only part where the presumption of guilt is inferred.

but that doesn’t mean I can’t support the death penalty at the same time. I do believe the punishment fits the crime.

If the petition is for the rejection of the presumption of guilt, I would support it. However, within our flawed system, if this is the best that can be done, I’d have to go with it.

lobo (#150),

“However, within our flawed system, if this is the best that can be done, I’d have to go with it.”

I can understand your stance.

So, the question is: Is this really the “best that can be done”, in your words? In my opinion, certainly not. For the following reasons:

1. There has been no meaningful debate from all sides in the mass media. Lawyers who are involved in such cases (from both sides) have not been given opportunities to relate their concerns to the public. And thus, we, the public, have not had the opportunity to hear what the alternatives are (whether there actually are or not is another matter. Point is that there have not been any meaningful debate involving all sides.)

2. In places like Hong Kong, Sweden, Mexico, and Finland, there are no such presumptions in their law, yet their rate of rate of prevalence of drug abuse is the same as S’pore’s. So, clearly, this is not “the best that can be done”. (See Alex Au’s report here: http://www.yawningbread.org/arch_2005/yax-508.htm)

3. It is also not “the best that can be done” because we are talking about capital punishment – irreversible capital punishment. And as such, the law must be as perfect as it. The very fact that presumption is in the law tells us several things, one of which is the implicit admission in the law that this “presumption” clause – if you want to call it that – is based on non-truth, or non-substantiation. In short, no evidence. It’s just a presumption. That’s what the word means – ordinarily and legally.

So, lobo, no. It’s not “the best that can be done.”

International standards applied everywhere in any meaningful democracy states that one is innocent until proven guilty.

And the burden of proof is not on the accused but on the one doing the accusing, ie the prosecution.

The “presumption” provision in S’pore law takes this completely away. Erases this.

The onus of guilt falls to the accused to disprove.

Now, this, in all conscience, is not “the best that can be done.”

Certainly not.

[...] Yong, a Malaysian, was 19 when he was arrested in 2008 for trafficking 47g of heroin into Singapore. He was convicted under the Misuse of Drugs Act which carries a mandatory death sentence for anyone caught trafficking more than 15gm of heroin, 30gm of cocaine or 500gm of cannabis. He has made three appeals, the third one to the President for clemency. All three appeals have been rejected. He claims that his boss had asked him to deliver several presents and was told not to open these gifts. He says that he did not know that he was bringing heroin into the country. Yong will be hanged in two weeks. http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/11/president-rejects-clemency-petition-for-yong-vui-kong/ [...]

149) lobo76

It is a case of the pot calling the kettle black…, if you don’t stop the drug lord, and kill off the small flies, what makes you think it will stop the shipment? That’s why it is been too idealistic when people think that killing the troops will stop the shipment…hello…if 1 dies, i will send 10…that’s if i am the drug lord…and do you think killing off the majority of the fleas on a dog will reduce the problem?

Well, In fact, since I am not a drug lord, i won’t know the cost…and i never say that it is free, just that it is negligible when compared to the overall profit…and do you think labour cost in third world countries are expensive? but ask yourself this Lobo, just use a little of that grey cell…if it is not so profitable, why will they do it and make people take such risk? if it not so profitable, why pay and train the runners? you were the one who talk about ROI first, so if you are a business man, will you want to take such huge risk and run a business with low ROI? I hope not…but if you do, good luck to you…

“I wasn’t. Someone else brought it up to conflate the issue. It regular happens when they have NO POINTS on the issue itself, thus bringing in other issues to make comparison.”

Ahh…so I see, mr/miss lobo….so you feel that these issues are not related? perhaps you can use your little grey cell again, scroll to the top and check when people *like Mavis” start saying how drug kills people…that’s why cigarette was brought in since it is known that cigarettes kills in a magnitude way higher then drugs…thus, it is not brought up to conflate the issue….but it is brought up to show that using drug-cause-death as an excuse is not an excuse at all…

ahhh..but perhaps, i do understand it now…because other people share a different view from yours, Mr/Ms Lobo feels that they have no point….ahh…you see, that’s the difference, people recognise that you have a point and debate with you Lobo, but you reject and deny their point because it differs from yours….how sad….how sad…

“What happens when the illness is an untreatable cancer?”

What happens when it is an untreatable cancer? Oh….i better stop….wait it will bring about debate on euthanasia….however Mr Lobo, don’t forget that what is untreatable now will not be so in the future…everything changes…and of course, like the saying goes, prevention is better then cure, so a healthy lifestyle etc etc will maybe..just maybe…reduce the chance of you having to go through that ordeal…

“btw, do you know you just described palliative care? ”

Yes, I do know that…I was trying to think of what the TCM was saying, and did a Cn-Eng Translation, babel-fish style..

and as for the bullet analogy, you do not expect infantry man to have the “one shot one kill” motto of a sniper right?

In my opinion, nobody really wants the young fellow dead whether we are for or against capital punishment. Unfortunately, the poor guy got caught in drug trafficking – a law with capital punishment in Singapore today.

As for whether the law is applicable to our current environment, that’s a separate topic of discussion altogether – arguably, any human-devised system will have flaw(s), always is, and forever will.

In my opinion, both Mavis and Tan Cheng Hua have presented very good “views” from both school of thoughts. The balance is always the tricky part as while we strive to be just, in reality, whether justice is served is subjected on ones’ experience and perception.

Nonetheless, a word of caution: To what end does it serve Singapore to justify such an action (capital punishment) in today’s context?

If taking one’s life doesn’t deserve critical thinking, it shows how much our country has progressed over the years. Think from the perspective of the defendent, as well as the perspective of the family members destroyed by drugs.

Ask yourselves, how can or should our law be improved?

PS: Admitting to our own flaws is the first step to a better tomorrow.

The fact that his mum just found out about the arrest and sentence is even more heart breaking.

Given that there are such draconian laws in Singapore, the question for now is not whether such law should be abolished but how to prevent the next victim from running foul of such a law.

Please bear with me as I present to you two principles applied in two different types of law in S’pore – defamation law and the law for death penalty, and the issue of presumption.

DEFAMATION

In Singapore, we have seen, over the years, the many defamation lawsuits brought by the leaders of the PAP against opposition members. Now, if you have followed the cases closely, you will notice one thing:

In all the cases, the defendants (ie, the PAP people) did not have to prove a single thing.

The entire burden of prove has always been on the accusers – such as Dr Chee.

Dr Chee is required to prove, for example, that the PAP was run like the NKF or that the PAP is corrupt like the NKF.

The PAP leaders didn’t have to prove anything.

The onus is on the accusers. Always. Always. Always.

DEATH PENALTY LAW

Now, in the death penalty law, the reverse is true – the burden of proof is on the defendant, instead of the accuser (ie, the police).

If you think about it, ask yourself this:

Why is the law obviously biased in favour of someone who’s had his reputation allegedly defamed but not biased in a similar way for someone who’s being charged for a capital offence?

Why is the burden of prove, in a defamation case, placed on the accuser, while the burden of prove, in a drug trafficking case, placed on the shoulders of the accused?

Is a name more important than a life?

Something to think about.

Sorry, the word “prove” in my above posting should instead be “proof”. Burden of proof.

By the way, I do not think Mavis has made a convincing case at all. All she did was to shut her eyes, place her hands over her ears and keep shouting, “I WANT THE DEATH PENALTY”, ignoring everything that we say.

Indeed, she has since MIA-ed herself from this discussion.

Pretty sad.

The PAPies should make this drug trafficker a foreign talent too, since they are so hard-up of foreign talents, right?

I suspect someone just want to silence the boy from talking, from giving evidence against the drug lords in Burma. Otherwise, why so eager to kill him?

Post @160.

I blame it on the political leaders for the people (including poster of 160) we have today in Singapore, and I blame it on the education system. This sort of comment and the state of the country (with relaxed immigration rules) can only be possible from a fourth world country.

153) Yamamoto on December 1st, 2009 5.05 pm
Well, In fact, since I am not a drug lord, i won’t know the cost…and i never say that it is free, just that it is negligible when compared to the overall profit

use your gray matter instead and ask yourself, since you don’t know the cost, how you know it is negligible compared to overall cost? you don’t.

if it is not so profitable, why will they do it and make people take such risk?

If it that profitable, then by reducing the risk, are you in fact encouraging more to do it? maybe you need to use your gray matter too…

Ahh…so I see, mr/miss lobo

I am Mr.

but it is brought up to show that using drug-cause-death as an excuse is not an excuse at all…

shows your one tracking thinking… fact is, it’s not the death of the addict that’s the problem. it’s the crimes that will result also (what addicts will do for their next dose), plus the suffering of the people around the addict.

but you reject and deny their point because it differs from yours….how sad….how sad…

Sounds like you are describing yourself. lol
I know I would not be able to convince you idealists to change. My only objective was to show that there ARE people who do support the death penalty.

Mavis @95

You keep going on about facts & evidence. Yong possessed more than 15 gms of heroine. No one dispute that. Do you have facts & evidence that Yong owns those drugs and trades them for his own gain? Where did the 19 yr old get the money to buy those drugs, who from, and selling to who? Does the court have these facts and evidence?

Death penalty itself is henious. To impose it on a 19 yr old who has just been used by the trader of the drugs is the most babaric, stupid and laziest way of declaring to the world that we are strict on drugs.

If Yong is executed, we have to get rid of this govt. Its not a choice anymore. I not only vow never to vote PAP this election, I will spread the word tirelessly for change.

Adolescents are more impulsive and more tends to be drawn to the rewards than the risks compared to adults. Recent studies show that the area in the brain responsible for decision-making and thinking improves the most over the course of adolescence to adulthood. Throw out death penalty for adolescents altogether.

Not saying they should be let free of their crime, but why give a punishment so harsh? Give them a chance to change, a chance at life.

162) lobo76

and it is great to know that you are a Mr. Thanks for telling…

“fact is, it’s not the death of the addict that’s the problem. it’s the crimes that will result also (what addicts will do for their next dose), plus the suffering of the people around the addict.”

Lobo, there we go again… drug addict is not the only problem that cause suffering…and once again, will what you first supported, catching the small flies may help to minimize the problem, but does it solve the issue? speaking of having one tracked thinking, i will return it to you. but hell…actually, all we can do is debate, but the truth is, evil exist as long as mankind exist…if you kill the runners, there will still be other ways to get assess to drugs for the well off…and yes, there you go again, talking about suffering around addicts….so do you think that people don’t suffer when their love ones suffer from effect of smoking? in fact, looking at the scale and the rate it is going, more people will suffer as such.

“iIf it that profitable, then by reducing the risk, are you in fact encouraging more to do it? maybe you need to use your gray matter too… ”

Mr Lobo, you read my sentence wrong perhaps? or the little gray cell was not activated? or maybe i phrase my idea wrong….however, the question that comes to mind is, when you put such a “huge” entry barrier, why are people still able to purchase drugs? it somehow seem that this “execute traffickers” is not as effective as it is drastic…

“ask yourself, since you don’t know the cost, how you know it is negligible compared to overall cost?”

yes, i agree I don’t…but use a little gray cell again Lobo, why is it that drug lords are so rich? because they sell alot of it? or ripping high profit from it? of course, this is just speculation….Lobo, if you have a great criminal mind…in fact actually a business mind will do…but if you have such a mind, won’t you want to earn as high a margin as possible?

“Sounds like you are describing yourself. lol”

Lobo, Mr Lobo…with regards to this sentence, I am not only describing you and myself….but everyone….since you also did that, i did that, tan did that…who didn’t do it?

and Mr Lobo….an idealist calling another idealist? mmm…..human nature…i guess…

And to end it off…Lobo, I have nothing against death sentence, in fact i support it for murderer, war criminal etc as it is a good deterence….without that, without justice, what will stop me from murdering someone just because we disagree right? in those case, the life for life ruling is true…but executing this traffickers seems a little to extreme…

however, letting them live to suffer will be penance….

We not only have a greedy and ruthless Garmen. Now, we know it is worst. It is cruel, heartless, and merciless. Even to the highest office in our land.

The heartless and merciless have simply no qualms to import outrageous number of foreigners to replace us and rob us of our jobs.

The heartless and merciless have simply no qualms to jack up the HDB prices and deprive us of a proper roof over our heads.

The heartless and merciless have simply no qualms to do business with the drug lords to benefit from their dirty bloody money and allow these drug lords to roam freely in our country without bothering even to arrest them.

The heartless and merciless have simply no qualms to allow state-sponsored murders to be carried out upon the lives of young men who fell into the trap of poverty to do the callings of those very drug lords who are allowed to roam freely in our country.

The heartless and merciless simply do not have any mercy nor an iota of compassion to those who seek for their mercy and compassion.

This type of greedy, ruthless, compassion-less and merciless ‘leaders’ have no place in our society.

Vote for Change!!
Vote out the cruel, ruthless, merciless and heartless!

Vote for Change!
Vote out the Father and Son Tyrants!

Vote for Change!
Down with the PAPy Gahmen!

My friend’s friend asked me to adopt a dog. If I reject, the dog would be put to sleep. This put the burden on me as my decision would determine the fate of that dog.

The dog is now alive.

I am not sure whether the president could enjoy his holiday in Spain, knowing that his decision is ending the life of a young man.

167) Yamamoto on December 1st, 2009 11.02 pm
… drug addict is not the only problem that cause suffering…so do you think that people don’t suffer when their love ones suffer from effect of smoking?

yet another attempt to conflate the issue?

…if it is not so profitable, why will they do it and make people take such risk?

And I submit that you do not know where the profits come from. How much more profitable is it to smuggle to a country that has less risk and open borders? Time to use your gray cell. if you liked to compare cigs with drugs, I like to compare Singapore with other countries. =)

however, the question that comes to mind is, when you put such a “huge” entry barrier, why are people still able to purchase drugs?

what comes to mind when people read the same thing is subjective. Anyway, let me answer your question and then pose to you another.

Ans: because no barrier is absolute against the ingenuity of the human mind. ‘huge’ barriers only increase the difficulty and thus only allowing the best of the best to get through… a smaller percentage than if any tom, dick and harry can easily overcome the barrier.

Qns to you: if such a high barrier results in some drug getting thru. Does it not mean a lower barrier would mean more drugs going thru?

To Andrew Chuah:

Do you have a kid?

When your kid turns 19 years old and somehow a drug dealer manages to put more than 15g of heroin into his luggage, he will be sentenced to death too.

He might no be an accomplice or mule as in this case though.

This is the current situation. The Dealth Penalty does not care if you are really evil or not. As long as Police see drug, you are dead!

ANYONE organising to a public show of sympathy & outrage at the coming BLACK FRIDAY? Count me in!

Just consider some key issues of the flaws of judgement and the law:

In WP’s Sylvia Lim’s “There is more to the death penalty”, she asks why shouldn’t background circumstances, be considered instead on using default-sentencing. Afterall, taking a human life is indeed irreversible, with no regrets.

What if just 1 person, convicted and hanged but who is really, truly naive of the law? What if the convicted had been planted as a drug-mule decoy for bigger loots?

No one, including the court should be so self-righteous and autocratic about killing without exhausting the merits of rehabilitation.

But default killing (only using the upper limits drugs carried as yardstick), is a lazy and inhumane way to manage justice.

Not all convicted can claim innocence, of course.

However, every criminal deserves rehabilitation, even if it’s a life sentence. Humanity is about forgiveness.

Down with capital punishment.

170) lobo76

“And I submit that you do not know where the profits come from. How much more profitable is it to smuggle to a country that has less risk and open borders? Time to use your gray cell. if you liked to compare cigs with drugs, I like to compare Singapore with other countries. =)”

and Once again Lobo, i will suggest you to use the little grey cell again? with open borders and less risk? that will also mean lesser margin due to availability of supply…since you first talk about ROI, don’t tell me you don’t even know the basis of S/D curve?

As for an answer, Mr Lobo, true, there is no deny, that a lower barrier will allow the drugs to get through easily compared to something as drastic as hanging from the wrong end of a noose….however, both ways, we are still allowing supplies to go through….which is why your-so-called idealist will suggest cutting it off at the head, because supply will still trickle in when then is a huge supplier with power standing behind….as that’s the only way to cease supplies…although i must say that is NATO, easier said then done…Mr Lobo, did you fix a leaking tap before? it will still leak, unless you turn off the main right?

“thus only allowing the best of the best to get through… a smaller percentage than if any tom, dick and harry can easily overcome the barrier.”

Ahh…and here we go again…..the elites vs the small flies….just because only a few elites can get through, that means it is a smaller percentage then TD&C? Woa….I remember Mr Lobo asking this, so here goes….how do you know it is a smaller percentage? you don’t right? It can also be the other way…TD&C carrying a small amount and Mr E carries a huge amount…will that still be a small percentage? ah…become you shot it back at me…yes, i don’t know too…but neither do you

“yet another attempt to conflate the issue?”

I will like to return the same phrase to you: “what comes to mind when people read the same thing is subjective.” I think that will be in short , differing perception? Just like one man’s meat is another man’s poison…I am not conflating the issue, but you are doing the finger pointing at me saying that i am doing so…but wait, at lease three of your fingers are pointing back at you… guess that’s human nature….finger pointing is human’s no.1 past time.

victory reformasi…viva ale liberate…
finally the governmment is LISTENIN… a stay of executions..right?
the right to appeal a reappeal…

TOC well done…leehsienloong is indeed readin the TOC or leekuanyew himself…

Great to see that he’s gotten a stay and the right to appeal.

Please, let the Courts show some mercy and let this boy have another chance at life.

Do prove me wrong by showing that we do have a heart.

people have been arguing over this for years without consensus and it’s clear we won’t reach consensus here either.

the problem, I think is that the issue is not black and white. Though many people in this thread have taken positions on one extreme or the other, I don’t think that is the case.

It is impossible to argue that the death penalty is flawless and should be kept. It’s many flaws are clear to see.

But those arguing against don’t seem to acknowledge that it also does have benefits.

It is plain to see that Singapore (with a death penalty) has a far smaller drug problem and hence crime problem than a country like Australia (without a death penalty).

The question is whether the benefits outweigh the drawbacks.

But then, erring on the side of ruthlessness has always been Singapore’s style. We have low crime because we have set up such great disincentives against it. Heck, illegally parking in a handicap spot is worth a $400 fine already.

In this particular case, I do not know all the facts (everything is hearsay) so I shan’t pass judgement.

But I will say to the person who suggested sending him back to Malaysia: The laws are the same, he would’ve been hanged there too.

I don’t know why we are happy about this latest development…the court was just following legal and procedural guidelines in responding to an application for a stay of execution…he will still be hang if Ravi cannot provide any convincing arguments to support the application or an reconveyance of the case, of which the possibilities is almost zero…sigh!!

Saiber @176 : “In this particular case, I do not know all the facts (everything is hearsay) so I shan’t pass judgement.”

The issue here is not about whether the facts are right. The bone of contention is death penalty for anyone found in POSSESSION of more than 15 gms of drugs. So what if it has been planted, the law says. As long as you POSSESS it, whether you are a saint or not, you are a smugler and you’re dead. According to this law, there is nothing to prove. It is as long as you POSSESS more than 15gms drugs. What facts do you need to know?

I think this stupid law alone scares away many tourists.

It is no use turning to the puppet President. I may phone the Queen to let her know that one of her Commonwealth countries is hanging a 19 yr old for possession of drugs. Commonwealth members must adhere to good governance and eradication of poverty. SG’s bad governance is eradicating the poor by executing them. Democracy? Don’t even go there!

Such is evidence of Lee’s era of predominance. The effect of overbearing paternalism and control over everything in the life of a Singaporean. No doubt we owe the success of Singapore today to him. Yet his ideas and notions are proven to be expired in this modern era. The impact of global world has spawned itself onto the teenagers and the same old code of laws cannot apply. It requires flexibility. Man is fallible and was born of sin. I daringly ask MM Lee if he is infallible. I can say it would be real silly if the answer is yes. The code of forgiveness should be applied on a case to case basis and not capping death on a mere teenager, who has been misled. What we should be doing is displaying truth and showing the way so he may have a new life. The very concept of forgiving and forgetting as with impact of religion
in merging with a practical sense in today’s society.It is time to wake up,all of u fools! It is Lee-no-more!

173) Yamamoto on December 2nd, 2009 2.57 pm
and Once again Lobo, i will suggest you to use the little grey cell again? with open borders and less risk? that will also mean lesser margin due to availability of supply…since you first talk about ROI, don’t tell me you don’t even know the basis of S/D curve?

and you conveniently ignore that an addict has a rather inflexible demand curve….

Mr Lobo, did you fix a leaking tap before? it will still leak, unless you turn off the main right?

To complete your analogy (as it doesn’t describe the whole situation), you have no idea where the mains are or that it is locked by PUB who ignores all your calls (i.e you have no jurisdiction to catch the druglords). So what can you do?

.just because only a few elites can get through, that means it is a smaller percentage then TD&C? …TD&C carrying a small amount and Mr E carries a huge amount

my assumption was that all things being equal. i.e TD&H (what name did you change Harry to?) carries as much as E.

but you are doing the finger pointing at me saying that i am doing so…but wait, at lease three of your fingers are pointing back at you… guess that’s human nature….finger pointing is human’s no.1 past time.

Well, technically, since I was responding to a post, hence the 3 fingers were pointing back at someone else first. To be sure, I like to ‘point’ with 2 fingers, so I figure I should be in the positive by at least 1 finger. hahaha

It is encouraging that Justice Woo exercised judicial discretion in allowing Yong a final chance as what we are dealing here is LIFE. Another question that cause concern: why his accomplice is jailed 22 years and not facing the same destiny?
Guest Andrew Chuah needs to examine his heart and head while he should also give deep reflection if he were to be Yong and what he hopes for then?
Under the constitution, no one should be deprive of his life and limb.
Wish Yong and his counsel Mr Ravi luck during the appeal before the 3 judges.
Mr. Ravi did a great job. Many at kopitiams were salutating and complimenting him a while ago. It’s like a goal in an international soccer championship!
God is always great.

Hi Mr Lobo,

Firstly, if both way doesn’t help….hey, haven’t you hear of handyman? call one and ask them to fix it up for you right? geez….do you want their online site?

“my assumption was that all things being equal. i.e TD&H (what name did you change Harry to?) carries as much as E. ”

Ah…as Usual, that’s an assumption….likewise, i assume to…and sorry, i think i change Harry to c..k….lol….but really..all this assumption from us…it can change either way…but of course, i can also assume that Elites who are better carries more..isn’t that the case? I mean ministers are suppose to be cream of the crop, so they earn more right?

Ohhh…..right……the finger pointing….For your info, try this, point any 1 finger, and see how many points back at you, usually three, since the thumb is pointing somewhere else….and then switch to two fingers, you have 2 pointing back at you, thumb pointing somewhere else again, and hey, 2 fingers pointing back at you, 2 out…so how did you get the positive of at least 1 finger…..

Ahhh…hahaha…. this was a stupid discussing about the min. amount of finger u have to point, so that it doesn’t point back at you discussion during a nice outfield in a cosy ulu area….

It is good that such gangster get executed.

If our stupid, leftwing opposition were in power they would be lenient with such human garbage and release them after a few years.

Singapore is safe because of the death penalty for drug traffickers – and thanks to the PAP.

Hang Yong Vui Kong – and stop the opposition!

Yong Vui Kong is a drug trafficker, and drug traffickers are killers. Killing drug traffickers is an act of liberation.

If Yong gets killed mankind gets liberated of a murderer.

Luckily we have the PAP and its tough-on-crime Minister Wong Kan Seng who take care of the people and do not get intimidated by western dumbasses, their dull lackeys in Singapore and the crookish opposition.

PAP is good.
Death penalty is necessary.
Yong Vui Kong is a killer, scum, dangerous, useless and a nuisance.

Why oppose the death penalty? If you wants drugs for sale on the street then you oppose the death penalty. If you want to make money yourself as a drug peddler then you oppose the death penalty.

But law abiding, hard-working, patriotic and tax-paying citizens SUPPORT THE DEATH PENALTY! Let s not take risk or waste any money by keeping mass killers like Yong alive. Better we hang him today than tomorrow.

To 185) Johnny & 186) Mui K.L.

Sorry to break the news, the High Court has put off the death sentence. So by your logic, PAP is bad, really bad.

those who oppose the death penalty are invited to move together with their children next to the home of drug traffickers, rapists, murderers and others who got spared from the gallows in countries where there is no death penalty. how about the Paris suburb or the shantytowns or rio or johannesburg…..

if we have no death penalty singapore will become mess. there is no reason to feed and keep alive hardcore criminals. except, maybe, for singapore s totally dumb opposition as they may hope to get votes from such scum.

So sad. Another yound live being terminated. The main culprit is still around and waiting for the next innocent guy to get fished.

Wished he is could be spare the death sentence. Let pray to God for the best and May God bless him in his after life……..

[...] are against capital punishment – TOC: President rejects clemency petition for Yong Vui Kong – Rachel Zeng’s blog: Standing against the death penalty in Singapore – Who Moved My [...]

I hate people confuse the whole matter. Crime is crime, it has nothing to politician party. Why wants to get PAP involved?

Every country has their own laws. As a Singaporean, I support death pealty for drug trafficker. Sorry, no 2nd chance. This is to protect us and ensure we have safety enviroment to live.

Are people who support the death penalty devoid of intelligence & morals or bribed by the standing authorities? Seriously, it’s incredible in this day & age that people still find murder “righteous”.

Wait a minute… There are too many pro-death-penalty folks here to be real…. Oh… I get it. You guys are being sarcastic. Phew. It’s nice to know that Singaporeans have a sense of sarcasm. You know, you really almost got me there with your pro-death penalty talk. Wait, you’re not really being serious… Are you?

Is drug addiction so bad? People are addicted to all sorts of things nowadays. Porn, cigarrettes, alcohol. Why is only drug illegal? People who take drugs eventually succumb to many problems – true. They may become hardcore criminals, snatch thief to fuel their habits. All true.

But drug is just one of the many vices possible in men. To stop drug use, start by educating youngsters. Ultimately it is them who choose which path to take – the path to destruction or success in life.

Life is precious. God put us here to help each other and treat each other with dignity. At 19 years old, Yong is a first time offender ( in drugs). He should at least have the chance to reflect on his mistakes in jail instead of being killed.

Some people write here that a guy of 19 years need a second chance. If you start to give these young men a second chance… the drug lords will send only 19 years drug traffickers to Singapore. They will tell to these 19 years traffickers that they don’t have to worry…. you get a second chance…

With hanging up this criminal, Singapore shows a very clear signal to any 19 year old wannabee trafficker that they could be hang too when caught…. drug lords have now harder time to find people to do their shit jobs…

> PUGDRAGON – trying to be sarcastic? Most Singaporeans are pro-death-penalty… simply because they don’t want that their country will be unsafe as most other SE-Asian countries with higher drugs problems… we all want that our kids can be safe on the streets, that can be in Singapore and we like to keep it onthat way…

Anyone who enters Singapore KNOWS that you get the death penalty! You are warned with a few signs and in RED on the immigration card. If you decide at the border as drugs trafficker still to smuggle the shit inside Singapore… then is that your OWN DECISION AND RISK… and you have to life with the consequences.

I am original from the EU and we don’t have the death penalty. It is common knowledge that the majority of the European people are in favour of the death penalty. The reality is that most big cities in Europe have bad suburbs what is controlled by immigrants and drug lords. Cities such as Frankfurt, Paris, Rotterdam, London and Brussels. Drug traffickers and lords shooting on each other in daylight to get control of each other areas. That is the hard reality. Since the borders are open between the EU countries, crime rate has raised with 800%. The most drug lords and traffickers are from Servia, Bulgaria, Romania and Albania… immigrants from corrupt countries who don’t respect the law!!!!
These people are get now arrested, one year in the jail and then on the plane back deported to their own countries. Three days later they are back and the game start over again… My country has a weekly scheduled flight to Bulgaria to put criminals out of the country…. each week 150 people!!!!!!!!…..

Give me then the Singaporean system… LOVE IT!!!!