Well, PRs can buy private then or RENT from citizens. When they have decided to sink their roots in Singapore by taking up citizenship, they can buy HDB.

Problem solved under 1 minute…

Affordability would be there means buy $300k for a 3 room flat?

But new flats is from $400k to $1.2M, what difference from resale? Most citizens cannot buy new flats from HDB after initial purchase, they are compelled to go for resale and private loans. So what difference between us and then?

By manipulating the supply of new homes and pricing exhorbitantly, a lot of new couples are forced to look at resale which adds oil to the burning furore.

MBT is only interested in making $$$, just like how he introduced the ERP scheme, the roads are still jammed but people are paying through their noses.

Have a heart for local citizens lah.

PRs are allowed to buy HDB resale flats from the open market without any restrictions at all. Whereas Singapore citizens who buy HDB resale flats from the open market are restricted by HDB’s unfair rule:

That they can only resell their flats after staying for 12 calendar months.

Why so unfair to your own citizens and instead show favouritism to foreigners?

Isn’t favouritism a form of corruption?

I know of a few Malaysians who took up Singapore PR status for one purpose:

To buy a HDB flat and rent it out as a source of income. They actually have another house in JB.

In order to ensure their rental can service their monthly installments to the bank, they keep frying the price of HDB flats so that rental also goes up every year.

(And I suspect that this practice may be more rampant then what I have encountered.)

So, is this fair to the poor local Singaporeans, Millionaire Minister Mah Bow Tan?

They need to have a home in Singapore? Rent one then or go buy private property. Why is the problem shifted from the PR’s to Singaporeans?

Take up citizenship, make sure your kids serve NS THEN YOU QUALIFY.

STOP MARGINALISING US!!!!

I would gladly trade my citizenship in for a PR one anytime anyday and take a citizenship up elsewhere.

This stupid nerd is talking non-sense again, what is the punishment for a million-dollar miw minister like him who knows nothing but lies? ##If Singaporeans will to believe him, is liken to believing a pig that make up with a lip-stick can fly##! Why should Singaporeans scarify for these bunches of greedy million-dollar miw ministers by locating to extremely near to city-centre puggol bot flats while the tap of influx of fts, prs being turned on profusely! Do not forget, housing is the biggest investment an ordinary person has in his life-time! How can you expect a person to compromise his life-long hard-work for the insatiable greed of the “ingrates”, when the ingrates are getting million-dollar of remuneration package annually? It is outrageous ridiculous!

How about make flats bought by PRs NOT rentable? Since it is for them to live in, make sure they live in it. Enforcement can be light and sporadic. The penalty however will be to forfeit whatever they have paid for the flat + a fine that depends on the number of years they have owned the flat.

hi guys

perhaps the govt should build exclusive estates for PRs and mandate that they can buy and sell only in those estates. problem solved. the property market will cool down.

As usual, the Minister can’t be bothered with your problem. When will he ever need to compete with a PR to buy a HDB flat with his multi-million dollar package.

Please don’t shift your mistakes to Singaporeans. You Goverment introduce stop at TWO, push up cost of living and now the birth rate cannot go up anymore. Therefore you get bring in PRs in to top up the population, easy way out!

Fot those who don’t already know, two PR siblings above 21 whose parents are not resident in Singapore are allowed to buy a resale flat. Single citizens have to wait till they’re 35 before they can do the same.

There is no use to keep complaining when you keep voting for him or the silly PAP monkeys.

Vote for the opposition in sufficient quantity into parliament and PAP will wake up to serve us, instead of themselves.

Stop trying to be “fair” and “objective” when the system is freakishly unfair already.

While I intend to vote for change, I still believe that it is better to get out while you still can. The exodus of Singaporeans from this country is only going to increase. We are being treated as 3rd class citizens.

http://thestar.com.my/columnists/story.asp?col=insightdownsouth&file=/2008/9/6/columnists/insightdownsouth/22243519&sec=Insight%20Down%20South

11) What Change? on November 24th, 2009 12.23 pm

You mean two Singaporean siblings aged above 21 and having served NSF are not allowed to buy a HDB flat while two PR siblings can? Where is the justice?

Maybe MBT already planning Serangoon Gardens “condo” for singaporeans after trial for FTs are over

Again Mah Bow Tan is trying to distract us from the real problems. The real problems are:

- lack of supply of new flats.

- ridiculous build to order scheme where young married couples have to wait 3 years for their first home.

- lousy amenities and transport network at areas where new flats are built.

These mean that many Singaporeans have to buy resale flats, making them no different from PRs.

Ya, they need as roof over their heads no doubt, but why allow them to compete with citizens on purchase of resale flat? Just allow them to rent HDB flats from the open market would be a more equitable solution to citizens.

If they want to buy HDB flat, new or resale, go pick up their citizenship first.

PRs may not have subsidies but they can apply for new flats if they are applying jointly with a sg citizen -isn’t this a big enough loophole which led to many foreigners marrying locals in view of getting PR status??

Why should we pander to their demands and make it so easy for them to set up their homes here when so many young singaporean couples are finding themselves trapped and cash-strapped in their bid to buy a flat and get married?

The govt should:
- not grant any subsidies for applications made for new houses where there is 1 applicant who is a PR
- grant higher subsidies for singaporeans (on condition tt both are singaporeans) who want to purchase resale flats

that way they cn earn money from those PRs bt nt at the expense of the citizens…

New Era, details at http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10201p.nsf/WPDis/Buying%20A%20Resale%20FlatEligibility%20Schemes%20-%20Summary?OpenDocument

18) What Change? on November 24th, 2009 6.35 pm

Thanks for the link.

I went further and checked the eligibility conditions to buy a flat from HDB. It said: You must be a Singapore Citizen. Your family nucleus must comprise at least another Singapore Citizen or Singapore Permanent Resident.

That would mean that if only the wife converted her PR to citizenship while the husband just remained a PR, it would be sufficient for them to apply for a new HDB flat.

It wonder how many of these PR couples have applied for new flats?

HDB flats is only striclty for citizens. Just don’t mix up with PR. That will solve all the problem.

When PR’s buy private property or resale HDB, the prices go up and up……and the average Singaporean will find it hard to own any homes, and when the PR
dumps their property and leaves this country for good, they will cash out and make a profit….. so in the end prices go up and up…..

Now heres a million dollar suggestion, when a PR sells their property, they got to sell it at the price they bought it for ( i.e private property) and as for resale HDB flats, They can only sell at the price that they bought it at, or lower depending on market conditions…..

Do you think the PR’s will buy any property or they would prefer to rent instead ?

If a PR can make a profit off the property that they buy, tend its a very HUGE benefit for them…… they don’t need any housing subsidies to begin with…….

And besides MOST SINGAPOREANS rent a HOLE for 99 years, and some think that they own the HOLE…. its called a “LEASE”

So in the end ,you end up with a “make believe asset”

What we need is change, exercise your vote!!

CORRECTION on my comments of 4.20pm.

Instead of :
‘Just allow them to rent HDB flats from the open market would be a more equitable solution to citizens’

To:
ALLOWING them to rent HDB flats ONLY from the open market would be a more equitable solution to citizens.

2 PR siblings above 21 are allowed to buy resale flat :

Citizen/SPR Siblings Scheme

The Citizen/SPR Siblings Scheme allows two or more single siblings whose parents are not Singapore Citizens or Singapore Permanent Residents and are not residing in Singapore permanently to buy an HDB flat from the open market. If you wish to buy a resale flat under the Citizen/SPR Siblings Scheme, you must meet the following eligibility conditions:

Citizenship
You must be a Singapore Citizen (SC) or Singapore Permanent Resident (SPR) with at least one other sibling who is also an SC/SPR.

Age
You must be at least 21.

Family Nucleus
The application must comprise at least two single siblings whose parents are not Singapore Citizens or Singapore Permanent Residents and are not residing in Singapore permanently.

Mr MBT is unlikely to take up all your good suggestions. To wake up our govt, maybe what citizens can do is this: Boycott the whole system. Collectively refuse to rent or sell our flats to PRs – unless they are willing to pay at least three times the prevailing market price.

If all citizens can adopt the attitude of rather having their flats rented / sold cheaply to a fellow citizen than to receive a better offer from a PR, this will send a strong signal to potential PRs to think twice before coming to settle here.

Please don’t blame PR. We are paying same GST and tax as citizens. But we are not getting any subsidies. Hot property market is not because of PR. It is because of Singapore government. Government can do whatever they want. Request your government to cool down property market. PRs want cool market as well. Nobody want to pay extra ordinary price.

ps/ I am not following up this thread.

Cheers!

PR families are not eligible for housing subsidies that Singaporeans enjoy???

What do you meant by housing subsidies MBT??

Jobs, housing and education are the basic needs of all Singaporeans who have to survive and support our families and parents, who have to support our government, who have to contribute to revenues and GDP, and who have to defend our country in times of war.

Yet it appears quite clearly to me that our government is now giving unfair advantages and showing favouritism to the foreigners who applied for SPR status, in the thre most critical areas of jobs, housing and education at the expanse of all Singapore citizens, especially the poor and middle class.

Foreigners who take up PR status in Singapore are now having a better deal than Singapore citizens. This is unbelievable! How can our leaders not put the interests of their own citizens above those of foreigners?

What is the real intention behind this unfair treatment upon our own Citizens? Are our ministers taking all of us for granted? Or, they have become so arrogant, insensitive and over-confident that they are now treating us as non-existent or sacrificial lambs? Do they still want our votes?

To all TOC posters,please do not treat too harshly to those new
immigrants in Singapore.Do you really want to discriminate them because they are new comers.If no incentives given to them,who wants to come here,perhaps only the wealthy ones.
About 30 yrs ago,i left Singapore for Canada as an immigrant.Once i
stepped foot in Canada,right away i was treated as equal to local born Canadians and am entitled to all the cradle to grave social benefits; free health care,subsidized college education,able to get a loan from any banking institution and i could even qualify to apply for a grant from the government to further my education.If i were smart,i could even get a scholarship.At that time,Canada is under populated and was in dire strait getting people to work in certain kind of
jobs like,in housing construction,manufacturing sectors,hotel and catering,blue
collar jobs.With having ever- increasing educated citizens,they tend to shy away from those kind of manual jobs and somehow rather chose to have their careers
in some cushy jobs like civil servants,bankers,teachers,financial consultants,etc,
etc.At that time,the only way to find people to fill in those unwanted jobs was to
have an open immigration system whereby, accepting imports like me to be PRs
in Canada.There would always be someone who accused me of taking away the
rice bow of the local people.As far as i am concerned and as a PR,i am doing a
job that no local wanted to do.I am paying a fair share of my taxes to Canada.I
am paying PST and GST whenever i make a purchase on anything.I pay my local
taxes for my neighbor’s children education.I pay my property tax for the betterment
of the city i live in.
30yrs later,Singapore is now facing a similar situation.You and i
may not like it but it has to done.A PR in Singapore and a PR in Canada have one
similarity.That is,both of us are contributing to our own local economy.

MBT, did you or did you not answered directly and clearly to the honorable Mr Chiam’s pertinent questions of public interest about the HDB pricings?

IF NOT, why does the intellectuals in singapore accept this?

Can these intellectuals honestly give a reply?

PRS. can always RENT….
They can always buy Private Flats or Housing
I welcome them to be REAL CITIZENS then they qualify for all the RIGHTS of Citizenship including SERVING IN NATIONAL SERVICE……if not please do not come to Singapore.
Mr. Mah’s mollycoddling the PRS. is unacceptable ; shameful. and immoral…

Stop supporting Sunset Industries….all GLCs. in the Sunset Industries should immediately move out of Singapore and that will stop and reduce drastically the unprecendented influx of the PRS,. and Foreigners.

Government Departments and GLCS. MUST employ Citizens FIRST unless there are NO Singaporeans to take up the job….It must stop employing Foreigners in jobs Singaporeans can do based upon LOWEST WAGE ALONE….this is tantamount to ENSLAVING YOUR OWN CITIZENS.

SHAME ON MR. MAH AND ALL THE CURRENT BUNCH OF POLITICIANS.

1 Million foreigners for now……..another 1.2 million in the next few years….unbelievable. Foreigners will rent more flats, giving Singaporeans more headache…..by the time the foreigners reaches 2 million…Singaporeans will be extinct by then….

Let PRs have their housing through rentals and purchase of resale flats. Citizens should be compensated with a sizeable subsidy when they purchase HDB OR private housing.

If I remember correctly, Malboro Tan opposed the construction of NEL, which runs through 2 opposition wards, in the early 90s. Now it seems that this line is profitable when we were told to pay more for fares because of the construction costs. So this guy’s track record is not very good, screws up most ministries that he is in.

To preston loon:
Most people have miss the point again and again.. as mention in many others thread, people are not angry at PR. Is the “number of PR in short period of time” that most people are angry with.

Singaporean in the first place have no social benefits, free health care, etc. The only precious thing to us is our job and so call home in public housing (HDB), If we even need to fight with millions of foreigners for it, what is our government good for then?

I welcome foreigners who are willing to do the job that are shun by local or not suitable, but I disapprove of the government policy for company to hire foreigners without even trying to interview a local first.

Wake Up!!….. Mr MM Lee Kuan Yew, and ………”come back to earth”.
Your ministers are making a …….Mess of our lives!!………….You included!

Your choice of ministers are horrendous!!….No compassion in their hearts,
arrogant!!

Disgusting ! Shameless bunch of Fools!!!

to preston loon:

remember that in the eyes of our gahment…you are labelled as A QUITTER.

This is the only country in the world where PUBLIC HOUSING is available for purchase by non-Singaporeans and the Minister feel it is totally alright and defend it vigorously.

In China, the Govt will never dare do such a thing.

When will he ever learn? When he loses the next election?

Marlboro Tan, please, you talk about SGporeans being unreasonable and having unrealistic expectation of public housing. Nonsense, we are just demanding what should be rightfully be accorded to us as citizens.

If you can really comprehend what’s happening on the ground, how about YOU giving up your MULTI-MILLION DOLLARS salary and your palacious bungalow at Holland Road, and live like most of us in HDB flats ? If you can’t give that up, then stop espousing nonsense becoz NOBODY will believe any of the rubbish coming out of the mouth of a DWARF.

Only 5% it is such a small number……

Can this be the reason for price increases in HDB resale market…..what about New LKY Citizens….how are they contributing to the increase.

If it is Singaporeans demanding new flats, shouldn’t HDB have known this.

MBT….he is sure making money for the Govt…and he is collecting a solid paycheck…2 things I am certain of…the rest..mmmmm…..

Govt says only 5% of flats are owned by PRs, but also says 40% of all flats sold last year were bought by PRs. This means only about 12% of the total number of flats are actually entering the resale market. Isn’t that more relevant than saying PRs own only 5%?

With the property market showing no signs of cooling down, and with the number of PRs on the rise, it won’t take very long for that 5% to double or treble.

Honestly, I never believe any of the figures these people give.

There is no transparency. This is the answer given by a Minister in parliament:

People do want to know, there is curiosity, it is a matter of public interest. That is not sufficient reason to disclose information. It is not sufficient that there be curiosity and interest that you want to disclose information.

The facts and figures are always twisted to make it more palatable for Singaporeans to accept. Please don’t be so naive.

I believe this site has pointed out so many discrepancies in the figures given out by the MIW. Don’t accept anything at face value from them.

And the papers also say from july to oct, the number of resales and the number of ppl dropped, yet they up the HDB prices…totally…contradicting and you know..no credibility lol

We need a honest gov ….

Dr Balakrishnan: There are currently 19 FSTs out of 97 badminton players, and 11 FSTs out of 85 table tennis players.

This is what Vivian said in playing down the overdependence of our national teams on foreigners.

Does anyone know who the other 86 table tennis players are? All I read about is the China ‘B’ team players representing Singapore in all the competitions. They are the ones who get the millions of dollars of taxpayers money. The Singaporeans are probably school team players.

Sadly they are always playing with the numbers.

I will vote for Change. I hope Singaporeans will do so as well.

I think we just have to believe MBT, whatever he tells us.
Since we do not have the privy to the secrets.

by ’secrets’ i mean detail extensive data in of a company or organization.

Lets have a national poll
how many believe or have confidence that so many more jobs can be created to sustain a population of 6.5 if not 6 million singaporeans.

why is it no one conducted one?

All this whining will come to naught. These people were chosen by you and they know you will do the same thing again.

Look at the $million MBT presented his speech….. great admiration, seem like plucking data out from thin air…… thinking we are fools to believe…… hello, statistics can lie……

I sold my Executive flat in Toa Payoh in 2006 for $350,000 well below valuation near the bottom of the property market. I didn’t know the govt. was going to allow the influx of so many PRs and foreigners. In less than 2 years, these E flats in Toa Payoh are advertised for sale at more than $550,000, a 50% increase.

Mr MBT, I have $200,000 less for my retirement.

Maybe PRs can be housed on some nearby offshore islands. HDB can build some high-rise kelongs for them. A win-win situation for all.

Singaporeans deserved to be screwed again and again.

You guys seem to enjoy it quietly but making a lot of noises just to put up a show for foreigners to pity and sympathize with you.

Singaporeans who willingly elected the PAP garment has nothing to complain about.

YOU DESERVE IT! SO SHUT UP!

Edward: Its your own decision to buy and sell during the wrong time.

Edward, maybe u can ask SATAY cause he feels its so easy and cheap to buy and/or rent HDB without subsidies

let us assume for a pretext that the pr status may only be granted to true expatriates (those who actually benefit the economy, not the workers in our service sector, the construction site, etc.). the fact that these people, usually workers for mncs, would be earning a higher-than-normal income is logical, yes? which, in other words, makes irrefutable the statement: prs can afford private housing (condos, terrace, whatnot).

question is: why does the government not limit the supply of hdb housing to these people? well, the answer is almost staring at us; our basic assumption, that the pr status is accorded to professionals, is erroneous. they can afford neither a house, or a private apartment, and have to rely on public housing (which for them is supplied on the resale market), driving prices up for the citizens.

on their side, nothing is wrong; they are just earnest, hardworking fellows eager at earning their keep. they make sure they stretch every dollar in pursuit of a brighter future.

the citizens aren’t in the wrong too. naturally, with rocketing housing prices, who wouldn’t be angry? but vent chagrin not on the prs, but on the people who approved these people their status, on the people who, of all things, did not foresee this outcome.