i believe they have already made changes to the closest fights, especially they have timely pulled down a lot of blocks in PP/HG. yes – you can ask but already assumed you would not be given.

the election air is slowly building, maybe they think they want to do this before the acquired recent stability sinks. so maybe they are already calculating the chances vs the timing.

what the opposition needs to do is to coordinate and maximise now. i suggest this election be ALL OUT WIN or LOSE BIG. With internet media, the public is educated with so much information not seen in previous times. And we have already come to knowledge that what they are doing is only for themselves and economical growth, average+local citizens become sacrificial lambs.

If Singaporeans are too timid or selfish to vote against, let them be rule 84*84 and be HAPPY.

There would be 1 or 2 GRCs up for grab, these would require heavyweight participation. Finally, maybe to slay the dragon is to go to his heart and surprise him. Like they say, once the tree falls, the monkeys would disperse.

I don’t think they will release it early. Expect them to redraw is drastically this time.. and spring another surprise. Wouldn’t expect any less.

Interested to know if SDP or any Oppostion Party will field a GRC in BISHAN-TOA PAYOH GRC?

Wong Kan Seng and team are sitting ducks. They are just linging up to be shot. WKS has been playing mime in the backyard of PAP. We have heard NOTHING from this DPM ever since his Mas Selamat Kastari episode…

Another dirty trick by PAP. By announcing the re-drawing of the electoral boundary in the last minute, the opposition has very little or no time to make ground preparations like meeting residents and addressing their concerns. PAP has no such qualms as they contest in all wards.

The opposition has limited resources and candidates hence they can only pick certain grounds to contest in.

Yet, PAP supporters pass snide remarks about opposition not doing enough or not around when the rules are changed in the last minute.

Imagine before a soccer match, the rules are changed such that players can only kick the ball with their left foot. Anyone who kicked with their right foot will be given a red card. And imagine the home team secretly knows this rules in the first place and had trained for the past one year or so.

How then can we blame the opposition when the rules are changed in the last minute?

As Dr Chee said, the elections division should release the boundary early so that every party can make the necessary preparations and not make general election a side show freak.

The PAP government should respect the democratic process and the people, which it has not shown to done so for the past few years.

Voters should also not be blind and be able see the gerrymandering and the various “fixing” government is doing to prevent them to be challenged. With such a condition, do they really get the mandate to rule or not?

To btan on November 4th, 2009 11.38 am:

But…

But…

But everything you say is about our much cherished Asian values.

According to the PAP, this is exactly how to ‘control’ a Chinese population, and not an Asian one, mind you.

To be a good Asian, you also have to be predatorial especially when you sense or know that you already have the upper hand.

So why don’t we just appreciate all that the PAP does as good ol’ fashioned Asian values that only have our best interests uppermost in mind?

This is Asian democracy at its spectacular best, and if you don’t believe me, just ask the all the members of the New York state bar about how effectively they have been turned around after just one speech by our esteemed law minister.

Do not find excuses and point fingers at your own inefficiency to contest the electoral elections successfully. Remember, every finger you point, 3 fingers are pointing at your goodself. By now, the oppositions should already firm up which GRCs and SMCs they are going to contest. No matter how the electoral boundaries are drawn, the basic is so long the voters support the oppositions as 2 oppositions at Potong Pasir and Hougang had proved it time and again, the candidates would win the elections, despite all sorts of disincentives and tactics. The key is to win the support of the voters first and not to whine and find all sorts of excuses even before competing. You cannot prevent what your competitors want to do but you can do to win the support of your voters. Nobody can stop you from doing that. Set your strategy right.

Over the years, I have seen how the gayman work.
If they continue to do things at their advantages, u think they think of u.
Butter the backside is what they know. More cow oil.

@6) Toolang on November 4th, 2009 12.23 pm

[[Do not find excuses and point fingers at your own inefficiency to contest the electoral elections successfully. Remember, every finger you point, 3 fingers are pointing at your goodself. By now, the oppositions should already firm up which GRCs and SMCs they are going to contest. No matter how the electoral boundaries are drawn, the basic is so long the voters support the oppositions as 2 oppositions at Potong Pasir and Hougang had proved it time and again, the candidates would win the elections, despite all sorts of disincentives and tactics. The key is to win the support of the voters first and not to whine and find all sorts of excuses even before competing. You cannot prevent what your competitors want to do but you can do to win the support of your voters. Nobody can stop you from doing that. Set your strategy right. ]]

Hey Toolang, tomorrow you go take exams. What do you mean what exams? Don’t find excuses and point fingers for your own inefficiency and not preparing. By now you should be ready to take any exams and passed with flying colours. Look at how other students can do so, why not you? The key to passing exams is to work hard and not whine to say you don’t know what subjects to study and for that matter what exams is it. The key to passing is to be prepared for all eventually. Get your strategy right!

Make sure you pass tomorrow!

@5) Robox on November 4th, 2009 12.12 pm

Do you honestly believe the drivel that is coming out of the mouth of LKY.

“Asian democracies”….*snort*

@ 8) btan on November 4th, 2009 1.44 pm
who replied @6) Toolang on November 4th, 2009 12.23 pm

HILARIOUS!!! :D

Hi TOC,
What is the reason for Andrew Loh to resign. Can Andrew himself, give us a write up, please.
If it is for some personal reasons then Cheers to you Andrew in your future endevours. Good Luck and Thanks for everything.

I have been wondering about the resources PAP spends to keep itself in the good light.

I think it is wasteful to spend so much just to make them look good, Instead, the PAP should be doing its job. E.G

Look at the table tennis fiasco.
Then all these other MP dramas, so much of wasted money, which could go elsewhere in improving Singaporeans life.

To Andrew Loh

It is sad to see you go. I wish you well!!

Andrew Loh is stepping down as founder and chief editor. We wish you well.
Are you preparing yourself for the coming election? Hope you do not join the PAP.

We all know that if you do join the opposition, wherever you are we will vote for you into parliament.

We wish you all the best in your future endeavour.

Leesjuanpat

“Hey Toolang, tomorrow you go take exams. What do you mean what exams? Don’t find excuses and point fingers for your own inefficiency and not preparing. By now you should be ready to take any exams and passed with flying colours. Look at how other students can do so, why not you? The key to passing exams is to work hard and not whine to say you don’t know what subjects to study and for that matter what exams is it. The key to passing is to be prepared for all eventually. Get your strategy right!

Make sure you pass tomorrow!’

What ? Just expecting a pass ? We should expect nothing less than extraordinary grade from extraordinary TooLang. But then don’t give him too much pressure in case he becomes Too-Lan. Still he must at least get A- if not A+ using his extraordinary exam strategy.

Dear Andrew,

You have demonstrated what a ordinary Singaporean can do. I wish you all the best and hope you can still contribute to TOC as a writer. keep in touch.

You’ll known when elections are near because the MIW will thrown money at you.

The Growth Dividends, Workfare Bonus and 40th Anniversary NS Bonus will be paid out on 1 May 2006. The CPF top-ups will also be made on the same date. Singaporeans will get a letter from the CPF Board in late March 2006 informing them of the total amount they can expect under the Progress Package.

MINISTRY OF FINANCE
17 FEBRUARY 2006

Elections were held on 6 May 2006.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4925476.stm

To enlighten btan and utopia that by using the right strategy not only I passed my exams every time but with distinctions too. What say you about your strategy? Pointing fingers at your contestants with a bandwagon of excuses would get you nowhere!

“To enlighten btan and utopia that by using the right strategy not only I passed my exams every time but with distinctions too. ”

The point in question is did you achieve a pass or a distinction grade, through study in just few/one day or do you do it over prolong period of study ? If you extraordinarily amazing to do it in just few days then you wouldn’t be here lecturing on opp party’s strategy, but rather teach them how to win election using in just a few days, or better still, setup your own party that is a sure win with your strategy.

No one is pointing figure or excuse but please don’t give crap like “No matter how the electoral boundaries are drawn, the basic is so long the voters support the oppositions as 2 oppositions at Potong Pasir and Hougang had proved it time and again, “. YOu are talking exactly like LKY and Law Minister SHAM (please go and read the PDF and you know what I mean).

Come on PAP!

I believe there are many gentlemen inside this party.

Come on, give the Opposition a fair fight and win with pride!

Toolang!
PAP hatchet your ancestor land away very Toolang
PAP hatchet whose innocent foetus (1/2 million) “Stop At Two” very Toolang
PAP hatchet common people business away very Toolang
PAP hatchet your job away to foreigner very Toolang
PAP themselve get big fat Salary very Toolang
PAP implement exobitants taxes on the poor very Toolang!
There are multi million Toolang PAP must be accountable.

andrew,

all the best to your endeavor. if you ever want to join political, do us a favour, do for the better of tomorrow of our future generation that are fair, justic and creative ideas and full ofopportunities waitning for us.

@18) Toolang on November 4th, 2009 4.12 pm

[[To enlighten btan and utopia that by using the right strategy not only I passed my exams every time but with distinctions too. What say you about your strategy? Pointing fingers at your contestants with a bandwagon of excuses would get you nowhere!]]

You have not demonstrated understanding to my satire.

I asked you to go take exams tomorrow. Do you even know which exams? What if you prepared for mathematics but it is actually driving exam? Hmm? Can you then say you have poor strategy?

The electoral boundary is important to opposition because they can only spend resources in certain constituencies. As such, if done in the last minute, they do not have time to rework the ground.

You do know what entails in working the ground, right? No?

Dear Andrew Loh,

Thank you for all your articles and your speeches at HLP. Hope to see you soon! :)

By not releasing the electoral map shows how despicable the ruling party is behaving. Zero democratic spirit, nothing new from them. You can this a 1st world country???

Aside to the tennis table incident, did anyone watch the news footage about PAP event last weekend? That LEE BEE WAH was standing front row and clapping ‘happily-as-if-money-gonna-fell-from-sky”. What a sight.

Jim # 20
‘I believe there are many gentlemen inside this party.’

Do you actually believe what you wrote or is it just satirical.
PAP happens to be the most kiasu party I have ever seen.
Call them what you may but gracious or magnanimous.
How else do you explain :
1.short campaigning period -always minimum allowed under the constitution.
2.bias media reporting on political campaigns.
3.every increasing high election deposit
4.GRCs, election boundery gerrmandering
5.defamation suits at every GE, sometimes even before election is over.
But its inmaterial if they want to change for the better and be garious , kind
and generous, many ofus already decided who we will be voting at the next GE

‘I believe there are many gentlemen inside this party.’

It is precisely that there are so many gentlemen like GCT, Sissy Loong, Lim Sweet Say, SHAM, that gentle and generous to themselves that lead to the downfall of the incumbent party.

@ 27) Utopia on November 4th, 2009 6.40 pm

Perhaps, what we need are fewer gentlemen and scholars and more people who are actually willing to do something.

Time to shake the dust off the knuckle dusters and meet an old, wily warrior and his gerrymandering merry band of yes-men in a cul de sac of our choosing.

*aside*
in case the army is not called out, would Mr Lee authorize the Gurkhas to be used to quell any legitimate protest instead?

Cheers!

Hi BryanT,

Please keep to the topic at hand, ie. calling the Government to release the Electoral Map early. Any other speculation are off-topic.

Cheers
Donald
Deputy Editor
The Online Citizen

SDP, below is the proposed electoral map for GE2011:
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/8179/map2011.gif

Pap is a chicken party, scare to lose. See their face also tulan, how to vote for them ??

No matter how dirty the pap party is going to plan for this coming election, which they always are in the past, suggest all opposition parties now have to be united into one BIG GUN and blow those useless MIW out of proportion and out of governing our nation. While those who already knew about TOC would also help to spread the awareness to your office colleagues, neighbours, siblings and parents not to be CONNED again by the pap anymore, just have to votet in as many opp party as possible is the only source of solution, at least for now. Just get those GREEDY elites out of the country to save to citizens from further suffering.

@ 30) Ark on November 4th, 2009 8.10 pm below is the proposed electoral map for GE2011:
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/8179/map2011.gif

HAHAHAHA…

It is truly ironical that it is the SDP that is calling for the Government to release the electoral map.

Being probably the weakest and least credible opposition party, it is unwise to indulge in such false bravado.

It would be more refreshing if the SDP can tell the public how it plans to improve our country or how much it has improved its political approach and its slate of candidates since the last GE.

Is SDP willing to work hand in hand with other parties in the next elections? Maybe even more importantly, will the other opposition parties want to work with SDP?

Looking at SDP’s weak credibility, perhaps it is better for them to start strategizing how they can work together with other oppositions parties in creating an unified opposition camp, rather than trying to be a maverick in asking for the release of the electoral map. So what if the electoral map is released, will SDP be able to field candidates to contest in all?

Common SDP, stay practical and relevance, and stop all your show business!

Hi Smallvoice585 #34 & Petrus #35,

Why are you shooting the messenger when the message alone is far more important than the messenger and it is more applicable for all opposition political parties in Singapore?

Toolang

“To enlighten btan and utopia that by using the right strategy not only I passed my exams every time but with distinctions too. ”

Just to let you know, strategy doesn’t control the outcome totally. 天时，地利，人和 will be need. which means, the date/time, location and human aspect must be right…and speaking of another aspect of strategy….yes, with the right strategy to study, or some do spotting, you can get distinction, but how do you develop the strategy for a massive scale with limited power? let me guess, the reply will be stop whinning?

so without knowing where to concentrate your forces in? how do you fight…ah, let me guess, do you expect them to spread out with the limited forces that they have?

CSJ, you wait long long before PApies will follow your demand for electorial boundaries. They never play fair when it comes to elections….

Yamamoto,

In a real world, do you expect your opponents to arm you to the teeth to fight and defeat them? Be realistic! Whinning with a bandwagon of excuses and pointing fingers will not defeat your opponents. Read today’s ST forum page A29 by Potong Pasir Town Council and draw inspiration from SPP how they garner the support of residents and voters to defeat and retain the Potong Pasir constituency, despite all odds. SPP does not whine, find excuses and pointing fingers and in fact, now going to contest in the GRCs. They do not adopt a defeatist attitude like some of you, btan, utopia and of course, yourself.

34) smallvoice585 on November 5th, 2009 12.31 am

“It is truly ironical that it is the SDP that is calling for the Government to release the electoral map.

Being probably the weakest and least credible opposition party, it is unwise to indulge in such false bravado.

It would be more refreshing if the SDP can tell the public how it plans to improve our country or how much it has improved its political approach and its slate of candidates since the last GE.”

>> Ever heard the phrase “action speaks louder than words”?PAP talked about Golden years and Swiss quality of living… where are we now?

>> In my opinion, PAP needs a wake up call – at least, they must learn to treat fellow Singaporeans with some respect; and if they want to win the coming election, at least, learn to win with “pride”.

>> In my opinion, only the blind, the ignorant and their lackeys vote for them nowadays. – look at HDB recent saga – simply no respect for fellow singaporeans – insulting our intelligence.

39) Toolang on November 5th, 2009 11.15 am

Yamamoto,

In a real world, do you expect your opponents to arm you to the teeth to fight and defeat them? Be realistic! Whinning with a bandwagon of excuses and pointing fingers will not defeat your opponents. Read today’s ST forum page A29 by Potong Pasir Town Council and draw inspiration from SPP how they garner the support of residents and voters to defeat and retain the Potong Pasir constituency, despite all odds. SPP does not whine, find excuses and pointing fingers and in fact, now going to contest in the GRCs. They do not adopt a defeatist attitude like some of you, btan, utopia and of course, yourself.

>> You think the request is “unfair” or “inappropriate”?

@34) smallvoice585 on November 5th, 2009 12.31 am

[[It would be more refreshing if the SDP can tell the public how it plans to improve our country or how much it has improved its political approach and its slate of candidates since the last GE. ]]

Every once in a while, I see posters like this who are ignorant. To these people, I say it again.

SDP has already written their proposal. My question is did you BOTHER to read?

http://yoursdp.org/index.php/the-party/our-manifesto

http://yoursdp.org/index.php/gallery/publications/255-publications-delivery-to-singapore

Or would you need these information to be spoon fed to you, like PAP did with MSM? Hmmm?

@39) Toolang on November 5th, 2009 11.15 am

“They do not adopt a defeatist attitude like some of you, btan, utopia and of course, yourself. ”

Again you are easily confused. We are not being “defeatist”. Being defeatist would be saying “I give up. I’m not going to contest in the election anymore.”

At first glance, it seems you are supporting SPP and WP. But really I think you are trying to sow discord between opposition parties.

We KNOW PAP will never remove the unfair obstacles. It does not mean these elephants-in-the-room should not be addressed though.

Imagine you took a driving test and the examiner failed you because you did not turn off the car engine in the end part. And you checked the rule books that it is not there. The examiner said : too bad, I just put it there 10 mins ago. You protest. Are you being a whiner? Next time you take the exam, you tell the examiner : “Do you have any more rules, better tell me a few weeks beforehand”, are you being whiner or defeatist?

In any contest, there are rules. These rules have to be clearly stated beforehand. Not create in the last minute.

Even in warfare, there are laws against using NBC weapons or civilians as human shields or child soldiers.

You are confusing the rules of engagement with true strategy.

A strategy SDP can adopt, as I have written in their website, is to form alliance with other opposition parties and have a common brand. This will somewhat negate the effects of redrawing of boundary. That said, it does not mean what PAP did is right and this has to be called out and let the voters and world community judge.

http://yoursdp.org/index.php/news/singapore/3016-sdps-response-to-queries-from-today

This is a repost of my posting in SDP website offering them strategy to counter the last minute boundary change.

===========================================================

PAP knows that the redrawing of boundaries in the last minute is helping them win votes. As such, it would be foolish to think they will not do so in the next election.

While the opposition can covers a bit more ground to cater to this event, at the end of the day, the efforts of working the grounds may be wasted if the party is not contesting in that ward.

However, there is one strategy to counter PAP’s tricks.

If all the opposition party form up to an alliance, similar to Malaysia’s Pakatan Rakyat, and present to the voters with a common brand, then you don’t have to worry about efforts going to waste. Imagine every opposition candidate work the grounds using the brand name of ABC alliance, rather than their individual party, then the voters will remember that ABC alliance is the opposition and vote accordingly.

This way, even if let’s say SDP is not contesting in a ward that they had the grounds worked on previously, but has another member of the opposition party contesting there, that candidate will still benefit from the ground work done by SDP. This is also vice versa for other parties who worked the ground but ended up SDP contesting there.

A common brand is the key to defeating the redrawing-boundary trick.

Not only that, you will unite all opposition votes as now voters will not pick and choose which opposition party to vote for. It will also give the impression of greater credibility of opposition parties in the eyes of many fence sitter.

Hello guys, don’t worry about the up coming election map. Just vote as many oppositions mp as possible. Thanks.

btan,

Redrawing of electoral boundaries is as sure as the sun rises. If you are going to twiddle your thumbs and whine endlessly for your opponents to spoon feed and arm you to the teeth to fight and unseat them, the conclusion of the election results is also as sure as the sun rises. The opposition parties in Singapore all want to be leaders of their own right and do not want to be followers to heed the advice and calling of those who are of their seniors and standing in politics. Your proposal is building castle in the thin air, if the previous GEs are anything to go by. We need not discuss this further and just wait and see the events unfold right before your eyes.

@47) Toolang on November 5th, 2009 3.50 pm

[[btan,

Redrawing of electoral boundaries is as sure as the sun rises.]]

Corruption in humans is also as sure as the sun rises. Does that mean we do not speak out against it?

Redrawing the boundary IN THE LAST MINUTE is a corruption of the electoral process. And this corruption must be addressed.

While we have no illusion that PAP will squeeze every advantage for itself, it does not mean it cannot be condemned. With enough voters condemning this action, they may actually take action. Look at the case of foreigners influx and HDB housing price. So many people voiced out the issue until the government has no choice but to act.

Saying : all is fair or don’t expect your opponent to arm you is just throwing smoke and not addressing the issue. It is also just a regurgitation of the government excuses.

I have no doubt SDP and all other opposition parties will fight on. It is our duty as citizens of this country to speak out against such unfairness. Even if PAP won, their mandate will always been in doubt, with such unfair rules created to their advantage.

That you do not wish people to mention it shows that you are afraid people will find out the truth about how PAP “wins” its fights….by fighting dirty.

Yes, we do not expect the enemy to arm us, we do not expect the enemy to use dirty tricks like child soldiers and civilian shield either. Speaking out against such despicable acts is the right thing to do.

This is not whining. This is stating a FACT and addressing the huge elephant in the room.

Dear 41) Dumb and dumber
43) btan

I’m sorry if what I said wasn’t too clear. I’m not saying that the SDP has not written out its programme.

What I take issue with is that the SDP has not learnt its lessons from the past. It continues to speak loudly on changes to the Electoral Map, organize protest marches, accuse PAP members openly of corruption; not because these actions are urgent and warranted, but to GAIN ATTENTION.

The trouble is – such actions do little to boost its credibility in the eyes of the public.

btan,

In the name of democracy, you are entitled to your views and so am I. Let the subsequent events unfold before our eyes and see who will have the last laugh. I wish you and the oppositions all the best to win hand down in the forthcoming GE with your superb strategy!

One thing everybody must take note is that the Electoral Register was updated up to February 2009, which means that those whose age reaches 21 after February 2009 and become eligible to vote, will not be reflect in the Electoral Register, and therefore will likely be deprived of their voting right.

We must insist that the Electoral Register for Voters be updated to the date of General Election, taking into account of all eligible voters with effect from the actual voting date, and not with effect from the date the Electoral Register for Voters is closed.

One thing everybody must take note is that the Electoral Register was updated up to February 2009, which means that those whose age reaches 21 after February 2009 and become eligible to vote, will not be reflected in the Electoral Register, and therefore will likely be deprived of their voting right.

We must insist that the Electoral Register for Voters be updated to the date of General Election, whichever it may be, taking into account of all eligible voters with effect from the actual voting date, and not with effect from the date the Electoral Register for Voters is closed.

@50) Toolang on November 5th, 2009 5.50 pm

You are entitled to your views, you are right. But let me just say that with PAP government, you are not entitled to your own views but with opposition, you have entitlement to your own views.

This speaks much for which side we need to support already.

Last laugh? The last laugh will be from our neighbouring countries as Singapore sink into oblivion if we continue to vote for PAP, and our best and brightest flee this sinking country.

40) Toolang

Before calling others defeatist, let me return the favor…

now, who is it that says that when you point a finger, 3 will point back at you? I did in the past, someone said it way back too….and you too….so let me see, your 3 fingers are pointing back at you

Now let me teach you another saying, that’s one man’s meat is another man’s poison…cabish?

47) Toolang

“Redrawing of electoral boundaries is as sure as the sun rises.”

Is that so…ahh…perhaps it is so in singapore…let me ask you for and advice, since you are a self-proclaimed strategist…so what will you do, when Cheng San GRC with tons of your supporters in that area, is break up and absorb into other heavyweight GRC?

however, If you are Carlo Ancelotti placed in charge of Clelsea, and they change the game rules to something that puts in you in a weak spot, do you think you still have the same chance of winning? or is it lowered? no matter how good a strategist you are, it is extremely hard for you to even the odds….

and here you go, pointing fingers at SDP *i am no supporter* and calling them defeatist, but why don’t you point a finger the other way, calling the other side of a coin autocratic/tyr..nical?

Hi smallvoice585,
/// SDP has not learnt its lessons from the past ///
Bro, i hope u are not a PAPy propagandist
Let me ask u a question, what has SDP done in the past that a legitimate polititical party in any part of the world has not done
Or are u trying to say what the PAPies has done in the past is more to your liking
U also talk about SDP lacking credibility
Hello are u for real
What about the PAPies credibililty???

Dear 56) Budamaxx1952,

If my memory doesn’t fail me, the SDP candidates got the lowest percentage of the valid votes during the last general election compared to all other opposition candidates.

Poor performance during an election is a sure sign of a lack of credibility.

btan and yamamoto,

I do not believe in supporting political parties. I would also not be so blinded to vote the oppositions for opposition sake. I need not say further as the posting as No. 57 is telling. I now understand why you have a bandwagon of excuses at your disposal even before the GE. Good luck to both of you if you prefer excuses and pointing fingers at others even before the contests instead of strategising to counter the odds, etc.

Dear The Online Citizen,

I am posting this comment here, as the post I had submitted to the SDP on Thursday afternoon has not appeared under the comments for its article “SDP censored again and again and again…” (http://yoursdp.org/index.php/news/singapore/3022-sdp-censored-again-and-agan-and-again)

In my post, I had thanked the SDP for replying to my reporter, but just as he had explained to them when they asked him why their comments were not used, I had to point out that their email reply came at 1.16am – more than an hour after offstone (when the presses begin printing).

There was no censorship, but unfortunately, their reply was too late.

Regards,
Derrick A. Paulo
Deputy News Editor
MediaCorp

To smallvoice585 on November 6th, 2009 12.32 am:

Re: “If my memory doesn’t fail me, the SDP candidates got the lowest percentage of the valid votes during the last general election compared to all other opposition candidates….Poor performance during an election is a sure sign of a lack of credibility.”

Like all SDP bashers, the ONLY arguments you can forward, are those initiated by the PAP; your comment I quoted above was a disingenous one first made in court last year by none other than the Great Manipulator of Feeble Minds – like yours – Lee Kuan Yew. (You feeble minded losers have a very easy job, don’t you? The only political analysis you need to make are the ones packaged to you by the PAP, no matter how stupid the analysis is. You just have to recycle that trash over and over.)

Exactly how does garnering the lowest votes equate to credibiliity?

I put it to you that the reason the SDP got the lowest votes had nothing to do with any credibility issues but EVERYTHING to do with the success of the Lee Kuan Yew’s kill-the-SDP-chicken-to frighten-the-other-opposition-voter-monkeys strategy. The previous chicken that needed killing was none other than JB Jeyaratnam until widespread sympathy and increased personal popularity made it unwise for the PAP to continue to target him. They needed to find a new chicken to kill, and the next most vocal – and true – opposition to the PAP is the logical choice.

You, among others here have not proven ANYTHING about the SDP’s credibility. But you have definitely proven that you are indeed the Frightened Monkey that has always been the true target in the PAP’s strategy.

Good. In case, you – or other Frightened Monkeys support some other opposition parties, the collateral damage that the PAP intends also spills over to the opposition parties; the feeble minded also get frightened off by the oppostion in general affecting ALL their vote share negatively.

With the other corner of your mouth, you will also probably call for opposition unity showing that all such calls have been insincere in the first place.

You have also just shown that it is YOU and not the SDP who lacks credibility with your shallow analysis.

To Derrick A. Paulo on November 6th, 2009 3.04 am:

How do you explain ALL other censorship of the SDP in particular by the media?

To Derrick A. Paulo (again):

I know for a fact that it is a practise in the media, or perhaps it is only dependent on the level of professionalism by any one media employee, that respondents – the SDP in this case – to questions posed by the media are told about the deadline they have to meet if they wish their answers to be considered for publication.

You mentioned that the SDP’s reply was more than hour after copy was put to bed for the day. I would now like to ask you if Zul Othman had informed the SDP of the deadline.

To Toolang on November 6th, 2009 1.27 am btan and yamamoto,

Re: “I would also not be so blinded to vote the oppositions for opposition sake.”

I don’t think that are many people who vote the opposition for its own sake; the largest majority, in my own estimation, do so because they desire something that has been severly lacking in the political landscape: balance in every aspect of politics.

Your description of people voting parties for its own sake is more apt for many PAP voters; the PAP is the only party that can depend on the party name – as opposed to the quality of its candidates – to win seats. That only shows that that they can field a donkey, and the donkey can get voted into Parliament. Actually, many donkeys have already won seats in Parliament under the PAP banner. You can easily spot them: they doze off when Parliament is in session (their work in their directorships, and the other true perks of being a PAP MP and not serving the people, must make it difficult for them to stay awake while all that droning is going on in the House); they don’t ask questions, they ask the most inane questions, or they give the most inane replies. In short, they are not being the MPs that they were voted in as.

@49) smallvoice585 on November 5th, 2009 4.54 pm

[[I’m sorry if what I said wasn’t too clear. I’m not saying that the SDP has not written out its programme.

What I take issue with is that the SDP has not learnt its lessons from the past. It continues to speak loudly on changes to the Electoral Map, organize protest marches, accuse PAP members openly of corruption; not because these actions are urgent and warranted, but to GAIN ATTENTION.]]

Firstly, when was the last time SDP organised a protest march? Hmm? Are you refering to the event where they casually walked along PAVEMENTs wearing t-shirts with messages in which they were ACQUITTED?

When was the last time they accuse PAP of corruption? And were they wrong? Isn’t taking multi million dollar as salary a form of moral corruption?

And the irony you said of “gaining attention”. How else do they get votes (the ultimate aim of a political party) if they were not trying to gain attention? You mean you will vote for a candidate that does not try to gain attention from you and ignores you?

If anything else, I would say SDP is doing their JOB as opposition, i.e., bringing issues up to the people so the people can see for themselves the act of our “beloved” PAP.

[[The trouble is – such actions do little to boost its credibility in the eyes of the public. ]]

Honestly, anything the opposition do, after going through the pro-PAP tinted glass of the MSM, is not going to be “credible”. The word “credible” itself is no longer credible.

“Credible opposition” is just another smoke bomb thrown by PAP and another strawman argument. After all, “credible opposition” as defined by PAP means one that it approves, and since it never approves any opposition, then no opposition will ever be credible.

If you want a credible opposition, first ask for a credible electoral system and a credible MSM first (which is currently ranked 133 out of 150+). Then we can talk credibility.

@59) Derrick A. Paulo on November 6th, 2009 3.04 am

[[There was no censorship, but unfortunately, their reply was too late.]]

Hi Derrick,

I am a regular reader of Today Online. I almost believe your explanation, except that when I check the website again at the time of this writing, there is no follow-up article or addendum on Othman’s article about SDP’s reply nor their activities.

So your “SDP-is-late” explanation seemed more like a smoke screen than real explanation of your censorship.

If Today Online does not practice censorship, do you dare prove it by giving fair coverage to candidates of all political parties? e.g.. offer to interview one new candidate from each of the political parties and to hear their views, with no heavy editting of their replies? Would Today Online do it to prove they do not perform political censorship?

Got to know Andrew Loh stepping down here in this thread. He deserves a break, go and rejuvenate yourself and come back stronger.

Me has been here loyally for few years and have much respect for the dedications and commitments that Andrew has put in for the wellbeings of Singaporeans.

I like to say Thank You for a temporary farewell.

patriot

@58) Toolang on November 6th, 2009 1.27 am

[[I do not believe in supporting political parties.]]

When you cast your vote to a particular party candidate, you have already supported that party, whether you “believe” or not. If you vote for PAP, you are supporting PAP. Unless you waste your vote, in which case, you are shirking your responsibility of a citizen.

[[I would also not be so blinded to vote the oppositions for opposition sake.]]

This statement has been used ad nauseum that I don’t think you know what it means. People vote for the opposition for CHANGE. What the heck does for “opposition sake” means anyway? You mean people do not vote PAP for supporting sake?

[[I need not say further as the posting as No. 57 is telling. I now understand why you have a bandwagon of excuses at your disposal even before the GE. Good luck to both of you if you prefer excuses and pointing fingers at others even before the contests instead of strategising to counter the odds, etc. ]]

Yes, yes. You must be one of those educators or parents what when you see a child having scored less than 50% and conclude the child is stupid. Performance at the polls is not conclusive evidence that a party is losing credibility. The fact that they can get 20% despite the mountains of obstacles stacked at them (they were threatened with lawsuits on the eve of polling day) shows in fact how good they are. If a child is suffering from cancer, just got beaten a day before exams by his parents, have his entire exam question topics changed in the last day and still score slightly more than 50%, I would say that child is brilliant!

To you it is just excuses, shows that you really did not bother to understand the problems faced by others. I hope you are not a parent or a boss, because those under your care who try to explain to you their problems, you will dismiss them as excuses.

@ Robox

I really want to sit down and shoot the breeze with you sometime. You seem to have some views which I’d want to debate on. I don’t support any particular party but I definitely don’t support the status quo maintained by the PAP’s policies because it does not appear to be to the benefit of the Singaporean in general.

I’m also against any system that encourages incumbents to take it easy. No, that is not the kind of person we want in parliament. I want fighters. I want leaders. I don’t mind people who may be selfish and think about themselves sometimes but also have the macroeconomic perspective to understand that as long as the people are doing fine, they’ll be doing great too! Don’t just cut costs!! Increase the revenue!!! That’s the minimum standard person I want heading my country.

I most definitely do not want a family of leaders who keep telling me (through the compliant media) they know what’s best for Singapore. None of them have really been tested except for the old man. His trial by fire was a lesson for Singapore itself but he appears to have forgotten that. I don’t know about Young Lee. How much could he have learnt during his SAF when he could not be allowed to fail. Even after entering parliament, I’ve not actually seen him lead us in anything significant.

I have no comments about our CEO in training, Ho Ching. She’s still in training because she’s allowed all kinds of mistakes and still allowed to continue. If hers was an actual appointment with accountability and responsibility, she’d be tossed out the door faster than you can say nepotism.

The cult of personality we now have that is called the PAP has not allowed any other potential leaders to REALLY grow as tomorrow’s hope. Instead, what we have are ‘leaders’ who actually appear to be stewards maintaining the system till the next generation of Lees come up. Why else is Lee not able to let go, unless he wants to hand it over to his heir apparent. I don’t mind GCT but Old Lee keeps him in his place with his wooden comments.

Good luck to us all. Don’t let the current Oppo wards down. Keep the pressure on the other PAP wards…whichever they are. I wish the Elections Department of Singapore (ELD), which is a department under the Prime Minister’s Office, would make up their minds about the boundaries…
oh wait…they don’t make the boundaries!

See here:
http://www.elections.gov.sg/about.html

“…(The ELD provides) secretarial service to any appointed Committee responsible for recommending changes to electoral boundaries”

I wonder who is in these appointed Committees?
Anyone?

Perhaps that is the question SDP should ask?

btan,

Your postings clearly show that everybody must write and play to the rules and conditions according to your dicta without any consideration for others’ views, including the reporters and press. You display a dictatorial behaviour regardless of others’ views. I hope this is not the view of the political party you are advocating. Those who fail to agree with your views, you start pointing fingers or pull out one of the excuses from your bandwagon. Your bigoted support of a political party blindly does not mean that everybody will believe what you say. The more bigoted and ultra views you are advocating in supporting blindly a political party without any sense of reality many fence-sitters like me will be turned away come GE!

@70) Toolang on November 6th, 2009 11.54 am

[[Your postings clearly show that everybody must write and play to the rules and conditions according to your dicta without any consideration for others’ views, including the reporters and press. You display a dictatorial behaviour regardless of others’ views. I hope this is not the view of the political party you are advocating. Those who fail to agree with your views, you start pointing fingers or pull out one of the excuses from your bandwagon. Your bigoted support of a political party blindly does not mean that everybody will believe what you say. The more bigoted and ultra views you are advocating in supporting blindly a political party without any sense of reality many fence-sitters like me will be turned away come GE! ]]

Wow, thanks for calling me a dictator. Don’t I have to have a country to dictate to first to become one?

If I am a dictator of Singapore, the first thing I will do is to dismantle all the machinery of the government to de-coupled it from PAP’s tentacles, then set up a robust system that will ensure two- or multi-party system in our parliament, then I will resign my post as a dictator.

Unfortunately, I am not, and the real dictator is still holding on to the various rules and mechanism so that he and his family can be in power. At the mean time slowly running Singapore to ground.

Want to bet the 4th or 5th PM will be a Lee too?

Why don’t you open your eyes and look around. People are disgusted with the current regime and clamouring for change. They have seen through the usual tricks of PAP and all the spins by MSMs are slowly being dissected by free and fair news sites like TOC and TR.

Maybe you are the one who is still not waken to reality yet?

Please continue to sit on your fence, and then watch all the illusions of peace and prosperity crumbles around you one day.

Doing nothing is as bad as supporting the PAP regime.

Hey Too lan, I mean toolang…

When you are accusing others for doing finger pointing and lock in their own world etc, take a loot at yourself…you are lock in your own world, considering other’s views as nothing more then bandwagon of excuses etc etc and blah blah blah…

this way, without having to say much, you have lost the war before you even fight it, as it is evident that you do not know those who oppose you, neither do you know yourself well…if you want so speak of strategy, look at Sun Tzu’s art of war…you have failed in a major aspect…

and too be truthful, if you have use tact instead of popping in here for the first “few” times and start using such crude words to accuse people, outright accusing people of things that they are not doing, doing finger pointing, you will just be the same as the likes of GMR….instead, take a look at the past, perhaps you can use Apek as an example.

To Online Shmonline on November 6th, 2009 10.56 am:

Re: “I really want to sit down and shoot the breeze with you sometime. You seem to have some views which I’d want to debate on. I don’t support any particular party but I definitely don’t support the status quo maintained by the PAP’s policies because it does not appear to be to the benefit of the Singaporean in general.”

Email me at rowbox@rocketmail.co. We’ll talk.

Everything that you raised in your post is exactly about the PAP’s extremism which has only ever been practised in other extremist regimes; no centrist regime has conducted itself like it.

But like I suggested, Singaporeans have accumulated a huge amount of “dumb” – and I might add, “stubborn” – karma which keeps themselves prone to being abused. But they don’t even know that they are being abused because abuse is the political, economic, and social norm in Singapore. And that’s why they will not even be able to recognize that a political party like the SDP can lift them out of all that abuse even when it stares them in their face.

That’s how politically dumb – or politically dumbed down which has a lot of implications for how psychologically smart and how high their EQ are – that Singaporeans are

70) Toolang

and there you go, again, pointing fingers at others…without realising that what you are saying is like slapping yourself, or pointing a gun at yourself…

if you are talking about “You display a dictatorial behaviour regardless of others’ views.” Hey, this is singapore….it is like what you say, something along that “changing of electoral boundaries is as sure as blah blah”

and

58) Toolang

Neither do i believe in voting in the opposition, just for the sake of it. I only believe in voting in those with the heart to serve our people. Period. And i believe no matter what views you have, even though it differs, it is the same. voting in those who will want to help the people…however, of course, a though could be perverse until you think that living in an ivory tower is doing good for the people

Good luck to you toolang, if all you have is a bandwagon of whining and also finger pointing….before you accuse others, look into the mirror at yourself…finger pointing is human’s no.1 favorite movement.

74) Robox

This will be like someone who enjoys self-inflicted suffering…lol

Singapore is said to be not even a country?
Is that correct?
If so, its only a very tiny place the size of a City and there is not even a 2nd city.

The election is won base on this population size only.

However, due to the GRC system, many Walkovers resulted in MANY citizens not able to vote in the last many elections.

So, all these years, who are the ones who actually Voted for them?
So, who are this group of citizens who Gave them the Mandate to run the Entire Singapore for ALL Citizens, including the MANY who were denied the chance to vote due to Walkovers?

Should mandate be given like this?

For how long should this way of giving mandate remain?

Because it is such a small tiny country (may be inappropriate terminology),
I ASK THAT THE ENTIRE CITIZENRY GET TO VOTE REGARDLESS OF WALKOVERS.

CHANGE THE VOTING SYSTEM NOW!

Wow Toolang your wisdom is astounding. Truly you must be a modern sage. I could just read your comments all day and grow tremendously in insight.

To the losers (Yamamoto, Robox, Utopia and especially btan):

The axiom Toolang spouted earlier holds true. “In a real world, do you expect your opponents to arm you to the teeth to fight and defeat them? Be realistic!”

Haha do you mean you want/expect a fair and above board election? What a highfaluting idea! Toolang has shown you all to be the naive losers you are.

The only way is to follow the God of Strategy’s – Toolang – method. Stop the whining and prepare for all eventualities.

For example, if it were decided that all 84 seats were to be won by the party that could cut a slice of meat most professionally and the PAP were given the latest state of the art ginsu knives and the opposition would only be able to use their own fecal matter who would win? The PAP of course is the logical reply. But why did the PAP win? Toolang has shown that this is because the opposition did not prepare for such an eventuality. It’s entirely their fault.

Preparation is key. Another example i hear losers whining about is that the PAP is trigger happy with defamation lawsuits. So? Is the whining going to continue or can a strategy be used to defeat this? Of couse it’s the strategic option. Do you expect fairness? HAHAHA!

In this case, the strategy could be ….erm….. that the opposition not speak at all. Yes selective mutism would frustrate the PAP and no one would get sued. 2 birds with one stone.

As i have shown + the insight from the Sage of Strategy – Toolang – can you now honesty disagree?

I’d have to agree with Toolang on only one matter: that many Singaporeans might be voting for the opposition party just because they are the opposition (post #58). BUT there is no right/wrong to it, individuals have the right to have their own opinion however absurd we feel it might be, or even if it is just because they are generally disgruntled with the ruling party. All the parties need to prove their worth, and voting for PAP for the sake of not voting for the opposition is lame as well, sorry to say.

To btan (post #68): Is voting for a PAP candidate really equivalent to agreeing with the parties’ strategies, or is it (also/only) supporting said PAP candidate in the job he/she does within the government? My area is decent (well, PAP) but on top of that, in my opinion, I really appreciate what the MP in my area has done in his years of service to the government. There lacks an unbiased compilation of works each MP has done, so this might be a tinted view. But I don’t want to vote him out of office because he has done well, and the next person in the line of succession, should he be as luckless as to head out, is not a desirable in the scheme of things. (my MP: Teo Chee Hean actually; decent fellow, would like to know more about any shadiness if any. If it were the Home Affairs dude I won’t think twice)

Politics has never been easy and candidates need to play their cards right. Voters should also not be too overly outraged over the lack of balance in political parties without first assessing the opposition candidates. I’ll have to see what each candidate has to say regarding some issues I have when the time comes around.

To note, the distinction between Town Councils and MPs is disjointing. How can we make a difference to changes in the Town Councils (I’m not fond of this organisation in my area)? Inefficient and overbloated. Ugh.

Ryvyan on November 6th, 2009 1.32 pm:

Re: “…individuals have the right to have their own opinion however absurd we feel it might be…”

How are those ‘opinions’ formed? You speak as if they are formed in a vacuum without any input form sources other than the individuals who form those opinions. Sources like the state controlled media that only dictate the fascist PAP’s views to the exclusion of all else.

Re: “My area is decent (well, PAP) but on top of that, in my opinion, I really appreciate what the MP in my area has done in his years of service to the government…the distinction between Town Councils and MPs is disjointing. How can we make a difference to changes in the Town Councils (I’m not fond of this organisation in my area)? ”

All this tells me is that you are concerned only with municipal issues and not national ones.

Politics is also about national issues and I think that is the major preoccupation in this discussion; not municipal issues that are not only the ’safe’ issues to discuss in Singapore but have had a tremendous amount of air time.

Re: “Voters should also not be too overly outraged over the lack of balance in political parties without first assessing the opposition candidates.”

I have assessed the candidates. And I am outraged over the lack of balance, and why shouldn’t I be? Do you really believe that a 100% conservative-to-fascist Parliament serves the needs of liberal and social democratic Singaporeans?

If so, prove it in any of the policies and legislation that the PAP government has formulated.

Thanks Robox.
I can see you’re very active today.
Definitely good reading! :)

Cheers!

Online Shmonline(69) /// @Robox I really want to sit down and shoot the breeze with you sometime ///

Wow !! I couldnt agree more with you, bro Online Shmonline, that the various posts on this thread, especially (64) by Robox are truly astounding, and personally i think it must be one of the best blogs i have ever read in my life.

Now i certainly breath the air more freely, when i open the window of my Bukit Batok flat, and the sunshine sends a thrill down my spine, knowing that there are true intellectuals like Robox and Online Shmonline, who with the twin-powers of compassion and wisdom in them, bring great hope for the future of all Singaporeans. Keep up the good work brothers.

“The axiom Toolang spouted earlier holds true. “In a real world, do you expect your opponents to arm you to the teeth to fight and defeat them? Be realistic!”

Are you so Too-Lan over your own nonsense that now you have to use other nick to sing your own wisdom and praise ? Trying to be LKY using own highfalutin nonsense and machinery to self-praise himself into nirvana ?

Haha, one word to describe you just like rest of Pappies. PATHETIC.

“The axiom Toolang spouted earlier holds true. “In a real world, do you expect your opponents to arm you to the teeth to fight and defeat them? Be realistic!”

Using many nicks to represent a nonsensical being show how great a loser you are !

PAP stooges are skirting the main issue – reads “Calls for the Government to release Electoral Map” don’t push around the bushes, pls stay with the topic. You get no votes in fingerpointng others (in this case SDP and not pointing directly to PAP to release the electoral map. Fair?

Dear 60) Robox on November 6th, 2009 3.12 am

“Exactly how does garnering the lowest votes equate to credibility?” you asked.

I hope you understand the word “credibility”. It means believable or worthy of acceptance. It is really quite simple. If SDP’s previous performance in the GE was poor, their credentials as a feasible political alternative are definitely not boosted by it. It is conceivable to deduce that if less people vote for them, they are deemed to be less worthy of acceptance – and therefore less credible.

One word of advice to you – you have a tendency to throw wild accusations at those who do not share your opinions. If brevity is the soul of wit, your verbose postings are not a good advertisement for the cogency of your arguments.

exactly Sam, perhaps people are looking for excuses for their own fears, or maybe they are jealous opposition members posting those themselves?

Dear 65) btan on November 6th, 2009 10.22 am

I’m sure you’ll agree that if the SDP concentrates on creating attention-grabbing stunts to boost its profile, it can only be self-defeating.

@89) smallvoice585 on November 6th, 2009 5.42 pm

[[Dear 65) btan on November 6th, 2009 10.22 am

I’m sure you’ll agree that if the SDP concentrates on creating attention-grabbing stunts to boost its profile, it can only be self-defeating. ]]

If what you said is true, then I agree with you 100%.

However, it seemed you have not kept up with the activities of SDP, because it is not true. No, no need to attend their open house or join their party. Why don’t you drop by their website, read everything they have to offer there (that should take about one week or so if you are a voracious reader) and then come back to tell me if your views of them have changed or not (that they are just a party that creates attention only)

How about that?

@79) Ryvyan on November 6th, 2009 1.32 pm

[[To btan (post #68): Is voting for a PAP candidate really equivalent to agreeing with the parties’ strategies, or is it (also/only) supporting said PAP candidate in the job he/she does within the government?]]

The answer to your question is twofold.

When you vote for a candidate of a party, you are in fact supporting that party, even if you curse-and-swear at the party. It’s really like consumerism. You can, say, insult microsoft but if you buy microsoft products, you are supporting it, causing it to earn money and continue to grow. Voting does this to parties in the political field.

The other issue you brought up is candidate versus party. I do not deny there are good people in PAP. I myself have healthy respect for people like Ong Teng Cheong, Tony Tan and some of the first generation leaders. Even the current generation of PAP MPs, I am sure there are some genuinely good guys.

Unfortunately, the moment they join PAP, they have no choice but to subject themselves to the party whip. Take the casino debate for example. Even though some PAP MPs are 100% against it, they have no choice but to toe the party line when it comes to the crucial voting. This is something all voters must be aware.

Anyone can talk in parliament (i.e. MPs, NMPs or NCMPs) but only MPs can vote (another reason why I agree with WP to abolish the NMP and NCMP scheme). If there is no party whip, then, yes, we can consider to vote along individual line.

Besides, the GRC system basically demolished the concept of voting for individuals. If you are in a GRC, can you really say you are voting for a particular MP? So what you say can only apply if you happened to be staying in an SMC, a luxury not every Singaporean has.

Lastly, you have pointed out a flaw in our electoral system in that the managing of a town council is coupled with parliamentary duties of an MP. If our MP can truly be just parliamentarian and our town council be managed by some other means, then things will be simpler.

As in the case of any PAP policies, things are NOT simple. MPs also have to manage town councils, so they are judged not just by their parliamentary skills but also town council management skills. Unfortunately, not everyone can possess managerial skills and presentation or argumentative skills at the same time. (e.g. people like LTK are great town managers but may not perform well in parliament, while someone like CSJ may be a great parliamentarian, he may not be experienced in managing a town council)

So while you are voting for someone because he is a good town manager, don’t forget the repercussion that you are also supporting his party and giving one seat of parliament to that party.

And because of this, my focus is on the national flaw of only one party-system which has to be demolish and make way for 2 or multi party system. To me, this is the reason for voting opposition MPs in, and not the “voting for the sake of opposing”.

A 2 party-system is the real check and balance to prevent laws from being passed trivially like a rubberstamp.

And if your concern is really only municipal issues only, then you only need to look at how PP and Hougang is managed (you have to personally go there). You may even attend the meet-the-people’s session there and contrast that with your own MPs to tell the differences. While this is in no way the same experience as having the exact man as your MP, it does gives you a taste of what having an opposition MP is like and let you experience first hand once and for all are they really the inept incompetent fools that MSMs have led us to believe.

Dear All, is it just me, but I am taking that 78) Ohnani is been sarcastic…

btan and the likes think that Singaporeans will swallow their hooks, lines and sinkers for the party they represent. They cannot present their cases rationally to justify and convince us why we should support and vote their party and have to resort to vulgarities when challenged. Even the last GE results where the party candidates were trounced and discarded by Singaporean voters convincingly as stated at #87 by smallvoice585 were similarly abused. The Singaporean voters had spoken during the last GE and this time round more or less you can expect the same results, if btan and the likes continue with their erratic rantings and abuses.

Dear 90) btan on November 6th, 2009 6.36 pm

I have taken up your suggestion and have revisited the SDP website (I’d been there before). Strangely, it did not magically change my assessment of the SDP.

Of greater interest is their section on “Misconceptions on the Singapore Democrats” which they listed the following misconceptions:

Misconception No. 1: The SDP is not interested in parliamentary elections
Misconception No. 2: The SDP wants to effect change through “extra-legal” means
Misconception No. 3: The SDP is an extremist party that advocates breaking laws
Misconception No. 4: The SDP does not offer constructive alternative ideas
Misconception No. 5: The SDP is only interested in human rights and not bread-and-butter issues

As a mark of sincerity, let me state clearly that of the 5 misconceptions listed by SDP, I do not subscribe to any of them.

But I remain unconvinced of the SDP’s credentials as a viable political force in Singapore. Words are mere words. Its their actions that matter – but on that count I do not give them a passing mark.

a party’s name is not important.
A name is just that, a name.
Its Whether Talents join a party that matters.
If Talents join SDP, SDP will shine.
Its not about the past performance as leaders come and go, some gone to never never land.
What matters is the FUTURE . As long as Talents join a party, it will shine regardless of its past.
By this, a party that shined before, is no guarantee sustained performance.
As simple as that.

93) Toolang on November 6th, 2009 8.46 pm

Again you have cut through the bullshit and stated your case brilliantly.

[btan and the likes think that Singaporeans will swallow their hooks, lines and sinkers for the party they represent.]

Do they tihnk Singaporeans are fish? I take great offence that btan and the likes trhink that i ,along with other Singaporeans, are an aquatic vertebrate animal.

[Even the last GE results where the party candidates were trounced and discarded by Singaporean voters convincingly as stated at #87 by smallvoice585 were similarly abused.]

I am confused oh Sage of Wisdom as to the abuse you are refering to. Please enlighten me. Who was abused? The discarded party candidates or the Singaporean voter? I lack the grammatical skills to follow your great discourse. I am only a mere mortal only capable of grovelling at your feet.

[They cannot present their cases rationally to justify and convince us why we should support and vote their party and have to resort to vulgarities when challenged.] and [The Singaporean voters had spoken during the last GE and this time round more or less you can expect the same results, if btan and the likes continue with their erratic rantings and abuses. ]

Now this is the moneymaker. I assume, i hope correctly as i lack your wisdom, that you refer to the SDP but i think that all opposition parties too come under this.

You opposition whiners. Whining about how elections should be fair and free. Just because Democracy means that the people are free to grant power to the representatives they elect doesn’t mean that they are free to elect whoever they want.

Just because opposition politicians can expect to be demonized and shortchanged by the media, have electoral boundaries changed to disadvantage them and their voters, does this mean that the PAP who is responsible for all this is abusing their power and riding roughshod over the citizens and the constitution, doing what they like and paying themselves huge salaries in the process?

Of course not. We are not a nation remember? That much is clear. We have ‘Asian values’ and whatnots.

I now quote a great friend of Singapore and I think this is quite apt.

“Democracy cannot be imposed from the outside and a system suitable for Myanmar [Burma] can only be born out of Myanmar [Burmese] society,”

-Burmese Prime Minister Gen Thein Sein

Also, If btan and the likes keep thinking we voters are fish, Voters will continue to give the same results.

This i can guarantee.

Toolang please keep up the great fight. I am rooting for you.

@96 Ohnani

I’ve noticed late in your post you had said and here i quote “We are not a nation remember?”

I was wondering if earlier you had read the few articles in TOC that had also our law minister saying something along the lines that we are just a city (i paraphrased here).

So to be more effective and politically correct, the sentence should read, We are neither a nation nor a country, remember?

I can sense that this should be about a city election, so why is there a need to talk about a electoral map? Is there a demarcation within a city for elections?

I am so curious.

89) smallvoice585 on November 6th, 2009 5.42 pm

[Dear 65) btan on November 6th, 2009 10.22 am

I’m sure you’ll agree that if the SDP concentrates on creating attention-grabbing stunts to boost its profile, it can only be self-defeating. ]

Yes the stunts SDP pull are only to grab attention to boost it’s profile.

Be it tak bolen tahan, CSJ in court against the MM, One man assembly (Which is now illegal), the dangerous practice of standing with placards calling for transparency forcing a large police squadron armed to the teeth to respond to such threats, etc. It’s all so self serving.

Why can’t the SDP use the proper channels? Like writing a letter to the Straits Times forum and such. Try writing with the Caps lock on as it will show the ruling party you mean business. But please hire a lawyer to look through what you write as you may inadvertently defame the ruling party leaving them no choice but to sue you. If not, how would they keep their whiter than white reputations? The whole city ( not a nation ah) would topple and our women would be maids in foreign countries (bad) instead of maids here (good).

What is the point of Civil Disobedience? This is from Thoreau’s wikipedia entry –

Political philosophers have counseled caution about revolution because the upheaval of revolution typically causes a lot of expense and suffering. However, Thoreau says that such a cost/benefit analysis isn’t appropriate when the government is actively facilitating an injustice like slavery. Such a thing is fundamentally immoral and even if it would be difficult and expensive to stop it, it must be stopped because it is wrong. “This people must cease to hold slaves, and to make war on Mexico, though it cost them their existence as a people.”[9]

Thoreau tells his audience that they cannot blame this problem solely on pro-slavery Southern politicians, but must put the blame on those in, for instance, Massachusetts, “who are more interested in commerce and agriculture than they are in humanity, and are not prepared to do justice to the slave and to Mexico, cost what it may.… There are thousands who are in opinion opposed to slavery and to the war, who yet in effect do nothing to put an end to them.”[10] (See also: Thoreau#s Slavery in Massachusetts which also advances this argument.)

He exhorts people not to just wait passively for an opportunity to vote for justice, because voting for justice is as ineffective as wishing for justice; what you need to do is to actually be just. This is not to say that you have an obligation to devote your life to fighting for justice, but you do have an obligation not to commit injustice and not to give injustice your practical support.

also this part

In a constitutional republic like the United States, people often think that the proper response to an unjust law is to try to use the political process to change the law, but to obey and respect the law until it is changed. But if the law is itself clearly unjust, and the lawmaking process is not designed to quickly obliterate such unjust laws, then Thoreau says the law deserves no respect and it should be broken.

As you can see, it’s pure drivel. Used by such wastrels like Gandhi and Martin Luther King who could have used their time better to make money rather than the lives of the people better. What was the Salt March or the ‘I have a dream speech’ but attention grabbing stunts?

The reason Singaporeans do not like protesting for our rights is that we never had them in the first place. Who would miss something they never had?

In the case of the SDP, they want something that the Govt is unwilling to give. Inconsequential things like a free press, transparency and accountability, and rights given by the Singapore constitution.

If these are things the SIngaporean does not want, what is the use of fighting for it? Just because the SDP values such things does not mean the Singaporean values it.

So please. Protest in your name only. I hope you get what you want because you deserve it, because only you are willing to show how much you want it.

But the rest of us who are not out there in the front lines do not need or deserve such things.

Leave the Singaporeans out of it.

93) Toolang

Not everyone supports SDP just because of their bravado. So calm yourself down, and breathe in and out and relax.

Just like we cannot condemn all MIW because of some funny jokers like LSS, LHH and this and that. We cannot condemn all opposition party just because of one party too…some really did help the people, it is a fact. they have been there and done that and we know we can have faith in them.

but Toolang, maybe you think that you are a great strategist and normal singaporeans are stereotypical…simple, compared to you…but prior to last GE, how many fiasco happen? and how fiasco happen before the next GE? always account for variable change…

and really, sometimes murphy’s law is so nice and optimistic…

Dear 98) Ohnani on November 6th, 2009 11.28 pm

I know you are not taking my side of the argument, but I must admit that I enjoy reading your post at #98. Sometimes funny in irony, sometimes touching in your impassioned empathy for the SDP and often sober in stating political truisms; you are a breath of fresh air.

Actually, I’m not without empathy towards the SDP leaders as I believe that they are probably sincere in their political efforts.

The trouble with them is that they have absolutely no insight into their own predicament. In the public mind, the SDP name had been almost irretrievably sullied forever (it’s not important whether it’s their fault or not). The tactics that they borrow from abroad are highly inappropriate and predictably ineffectual in the face of our local culture; appearing to be mere publicity stunts to the average man-in-the-street.

By pointing these things out, I’m not necessarily being hostile. But, I also have no inclination to help the SDP now as I know that the political wounds they suffered years ago had been mortal ones. It is only the SDP and their supporters who have yet to realize this.

To smallvoice585 on November 6th, 2009 5.34 pm:

Re: “I hope you understand the word “credibility”. It means believable or worthy of acceptance.”

Good, you have consulted the dictionary and so we now have a basis for pursuing this matter further. Tell me exactly which of the SDP’s words, actions, or the policies it champions lacks credibility so much that it has such a high uptake, as topics for discussion at least, among many of the political parties including the PAP.

For example, most recently at the forum organized by the NUSPSS, Zaqy Mohamed stated that he supported Minimum Wage legislation; just a week earlier, it was the point of discussion in a speech by Lee Kuan Yew. This is an SDP-initiated idea that has been in place for ten years now. Tell me which part of this SDP policy you think lacks credibility.

Or you could pick any other satement, action, or policy of your liking. Just be VERY specific because your own credibility is at stake here.

And speaking of “credibility” do you think that my Theory of the Frightened Opposition-Voting Singaporean Monkey has any believalibility or worthiness, so much so that it is acceptable by those who know about it?

Not that any of these are unknowns, but I would like to draw attention to them anyway.

1. When the SDP, being a party that adheres strictly to the law, applies for a permit from the police to hold an assembly as permitted by law, the lawlessness of all PAP-controlled agencies such as the SPF conducts itself in such a way that the SDP is told only at the very last minute that its application is not approved.

2. At elections, it is only at the very last minute does the fraud organization called the Elections Department – housed at the Prime Minister’s Office, no less and in all likelihood, at his behest as well – announces a change in the boundaries of constituencies.

3. Only at the very last minute does Today’s fraud reporter Zul Othman email the SDP with a list of questions to be answered ASAP – what ASAP actually means must never be made clear in the practise of fascism.

Are we not more and more convinced that the fascist pigs actually operate from the same Instruction Manual and that the Manual is the same one issued by the ruling party?

Independent media my foot!

@94) smallvoice585 on November 6th, 2009 8.48 pm

I will give you brownie points for attempting to go to their sites to read. At least you did that much, which is more than I can say for some people who keep criticising opposition parties. However, you have to do more by absorbing what they are saying.

Firstly, let me address your main complains. Why do you think SDP is “attention grabbing”? Because of their civil disobedience activities?

Have you read their explanation of why they conduct civil disobedience and understood it?

Here, let me repost it.

=========================================================
**But what is nonviolent action?**

A government, no matter how dictatorial, is dependent on the cooperation of the people it rules. In other words, how powerful a government is depends on how much citizens are willing to obey it. When we withdraw our cooperation and refuse to submit to the Government’s oppressive ways, we change the power relationship between government and citizenry, and erode the regime’s hold over us.

Nonviolent action describes the act of refusing to obey unjust laws and the demands of a government without resorting to physical violence. A coordinated and concerted withdrawal of that compliance will render the State impotent with its repression. Refusing to cooperate with unjust laws, carried out in a systematic manner, can bring about change. Nonviolent action has been repeatedly used to overcome dictatorships all over the world, most notably in India during Gandhi’s movement for independence, South Africa during the years of apartheid rule, and Taiwan during the Kuomintang’s dictatorship.

Nonviolent action enables even those who are few in numbers or lacking in material resources to resist their oppressors with moral strength and dignity. Because of the nature of the movement, non-violent can be used by the old and young, men and women, the able-bodied and the infirm.

Nonviolent actions include letter writing, sit-ins, boycotts, marches, strikes, etc. The idea is to use peaceful means to wean governments away from their dependence on undemocratic practices.

**Won’t this lead to the PAP taking harsh action?**

Yes, it will. The Government can jail 10 persons; it can even jail 100 persons but it cannot jail 10,000 persons. A nonviolent action campaign needs to have the participation of the masses if it is going to succeed. But remember that mass movements always start with the leadership of the few who have the courage to make sacrifices and the vision to bring the people into the future. Many countries have faced similar circumstances as ours, some with situations much worse, but through the intelligent and persistent use of nonviolent action, they were all able to overcome the dictatorial regimes and establish democracy in their countries.

===========================================================

I happen to personally disagree with civil disobedience activities, not because SDP is wrong but because Singaporeans are not desperate enough yet. Sadly, no one will do extreme actions until they have nothing else to lose. But by then, it also will be too late. That said, I totally understand the angle that SDP is coming from, so while I disagree with what they do, I respect them for their beliefs.

My take is that they should focus more on garnering votes in a particular constituencies, in which they state they will do so, just not the only activity they will do. For that I am satisfied with their course of actions.

My own personal hope is they can bring the issue up to parliament as MPs rather than in the streets. However, if they are prevented to do so by the dirty tricks of PAP, then we cannot fault them for taking to the streets, for the original offender is PAP.

To say that SDP is attention grabbing but without also condemning the dirty tricks put up by PAP to mutate the electoral system to their advantage is not being fair to SDP.

This is my main grouse to people who said it is not the job of PAP to be fair to their opponents. I strongly disagree. It is not the job of the incumbent to mutate the system to make it such a high barrier-to-entry for opposition.

This will never happen in a commercial world with free competition. Take the example of microsoft who tried to play dirty tricks by coupling their IE to their OS. Looked all the anti-monopoly lawsuits slapped at them from USA to Europe.

Yet, such monopoly is happening to our country’s political system. It cannot be healthy. Already, we have suffered the consequences of such a monopoly, by the failed stop-at-two population control policy, such that now we are suffering for yet another failed policy of open-door immigration.

All these matters are interlinked. If you do not see the consequences that starts with redrawing boundaries, then you have to dig further.

@96) Ohnani on November 6th, 2009 10.36 pm

[[btan and the likes think that Singaporeans will swallow their hooks, lines and sinkers for the party they represent.]

Do they tihnk Singaporeans are fish? I take great offence that btan and the likes trhink that i ,along with other Singaporeans, are an aquatic vertebrate animal.]

No, I happen to think there are many intelligent Singaporeans but when it comes to voting, many (specifically the 66.6%) are more like mammals of the woolly kind.

@77) Debra Soong H K of the Bai and Bai until cannot on November 6th, 2009 1.17 pm

[[Because it is such a small tiny country (may be inappropriate terminology),
I ASK THAT THE ENTIRE CITIZENRY GET TO VOTE REGARDLESS OF WALKOVERS.

CHANGE THE VOTING SYSTEM NOW! ]]

What you are asking for is the proportional representative forms of parliamentary system, which I am a great proponent of. I am a firm believer of decoupling the management of estates with parliamentary duties.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proportional_representation

A proportional representation would mean those who vote for a particular party would have representatives for themselves. As in the case now, the 33.3% of those who voted has no one to represent them, except for the 2 opposition MPs. And many do not even have the chance to vote, like myself.

However, I see this as “advanced dream”. The basics of having a balanced playing field is not even there and I do not have any illusion that PAP will change the playing field which is heavily skewed to their favour.

@93) Toolang on November 6th, 2009 8.46 pm

[[Even the last GE results where the party candidates were trounced and discarded by Singaporean voters convincingly as stated at #87 by smallvoice585 were similarly abused. The Singaporean voters had spoken during the last GE and this time round more or less you can expect the same results, if btan and the likes continue with their erratic rantings and abuses. ]]

This is a case of perspective. Where you see 3/4 glass empty, I see 1/4 glass full. (or whatever proportion there is)

Based on last GE results
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore_general_election_2006

SDP garnered 4.07% of those who voted. That means for every hundred person, 4 person supported SDP. That to me, does not indicate “discarded by voters” to me. At the very least, in 45,634 individuals have demonstrated their support (by way of voting) to SDP.

More importantly, I see 33.3% of those that voted supported the opposition. That means 1 in 3 person supported the opposition.

Bear in mind this is the result despite the fact that the odds are heavily stacked against the opposition.

Let me give you an analogy. Two runners compete in a 100m dash. One is clad in typical running gear with the latest technology in running shows and plenty of high quality training. The other is clad in medieval armor of a knight and just trained for a few days. The result is the first runner won by a few seconds. Who is the better runner?

The answer is, we don’t really know. At first glance, the first winner seems to be the better runner as he seemed to be more prepared and properly clad. But if the second runner had good preparations and without the weight to slow them down, he may give the winner a good run of his money and may even win the race.

Hope this analogy will make you understand.

Lastly, I have relooked at my replies to you thus far. Other than being sarcastic to your, in my view, nonsensical postings and drawing analogies to satire your reasoning, I have never been abusive to you. So please keep it civil if possible. What I would like to draw to your attention is the very system you seem to support in fact is detrimental to a free debate that should be the mainstay of our political sphere and ironically, you accuse myself and others of being “dictatorial” when it is the system that you support that is dictatorial.

At the end of the day, opposition supporters like myself subscribe to a system of “I may disagree with you, I will defend your right to speak those views”. But can you say the same about the system of PAP that you seemed to support?

btan, if it is at all feasible at your own personal level of comfort, you really should join an opposition party. You’ll be a huge asset just based on your intellect and political astuteness alone.

I of course don’t know you, so I don’t know whether you can deliver all that you have in your intellect in speech which is going to be very important politically. You can double your impact by also being better than the PAP’s good speechmakers: sign up with Toastmasters or something.

But apologies for the suggestion above if you already ARE a good speaker.

My suggestion is to keep engaging others under your current online moniker but never under your real name because there are many PAP vultures online who would be ready to pounce on you for the slightest, and conduct a smear campaign against you. Use this as your learning opportunity to increase your own streetsmartness and sharpwittedness.

And then if you do join an opposition party with your name known, you can raise your profile but this time with a greater sense of officiousness, decorum etc, by posting online but only occasionally.

Most of all, I think that you are just a very good person with your heart in the right place. Singapore needs you more than you may know.

btan,

[More importantly, I see 33.3% of those that voted supported the opposition. That means 1 in 3 person supported the opposition.]

You see 33.3% of those supported the opposition is basically flawed. In every GEs, there was 30% or thereabout of votes cast for the oppositions since the days immemorial. In other words, it is status quo. As I said before and I shall repeat it unequivocally that I am non-partisan and do not believe in any political party. I believe in Singaporeans and people who are honest and sincere who can good for the general populace. In fact, I appreciate your commitment to the opposition cause which I share to some extent but some of the points raised are too far flung from reality.

Dear 101) Robox on November 7th, 2009 5.11 am

It appears that you only realized the actual meaning of “credibility” after I told you so.

Unfortunately, you have poor reading skills because you further asked -

“Tell me exactly which of the SDP’s words, actions, or the policies it champions lacks credibility …”

I have already told you very plainly why in the 2nd paragraph of my post #87 which I reproduce here for your benefit:

“I hope you understand the word “credibility”. It means believable or worthy of acceptance. It is really quite simple. If SDP’s previous performance in the GE was poor, their credentials as a feasible political alternative are definitely not boosted by it. It is conceivable to deduce that if less people vote for them, they are deemed to be less worthy of acceptance – and therefore less credible.”

So, a party’s credibility is not validated by any specific word, action or policy of theirs, but by their actual performance in a GE! What more solid evidence can you find?

Dear 104) btan on November 7th, 2009 2.21 pm

Thank you for your brownie points. I will accept them humbly and sincerely.

However, I am much more confident of my powers of absorption than you think. I am well aware of SDP’s rationale for using civil disobedience tactics. But these reasons are too theoretical and had been successful only in selected historical cases. These are not good enough reasons for their endorsement and attempted implementation in Singapore.

One good measure of the feasibility of civil disobedience tactics in Singapore is the degree of actual mass participation in such actions in the past. I don’t think I need to tell you what had been the result – most people view their small-group actions as foolhardy or impulsive acts at best and and as not-so-entertaining clownish sideshows at worst. In case you again direct harsh language at me again, let me state that this is not my personal judgment but that of the common man.

By your own admission, you rightly disagree with civil disobedience activities in Singapore. The culture milieu in Singapore is such that such high-minded concepts will not be understood, much less induce mass participation.

I think SDP realizes this but, in their frustration and impotence, they are unable to rethink their strategy except to repeatedly conduct similar small-group actions.

When an unsuccessful ploy is relentlessly pursued, it becomes “attention grabbing”. Why? Because it serves no other purpose!

To smallvoice585 on November 8th, 2009 1.20 am:

Just admit it: The only thing that you have done by linking the SDP’s alleged lack of credibility and their vote share is to try and establish a false causal link between the two. But like I said twice now, your job as Lee Kuan Yew’s agent is a very simple one – absolutely no analysis necessary – and as a simpleton, you are indeed suited as LeE Kuan Yew’s agent.

Thus, I will not tax all of your two brain cells with a professional, multi-factorial analysis because that would be out of your grasp even after two billion lifetimes.

Finally – yes, this is my final note to you on this thread – I am actually glad that you are not an SDP supporter. Ironically, the simpleton approach to political analysis in its infinite stupidity is a form of quality control as well.

I’m sure that the SDP wishes only for quality within its ranks, even from its support base.

smallvoice585, I have been reading your exchanges here with much hilarity.

I am sure you will NOT be perturbed by accusations of being LKY’s agent because such accusations are quite common. And in fact, it remind of Godwin’s Law.

Maybe you are familiar with it already, otherwise you can read it here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin’s_law)

I quote: “As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1. The term Godwin’s law can also refer to the tradition that whoever makes such a comparison is said to “lose” the debate.”

There is a tendency by some to compare LKY to the main character of this law, for reasons unknown to me.

I suppose the “final note” given to you is an apt conclusion to your discussion based on the Godwin’s Law. Please accept my congratulation.

Hi smallvoice585,
With respect to you, i must say that your views on local politics are quite disconcerting, i mean, they have ruffled quite a few feathers on TOC
Although you are entitled to your views, i must say that i much prefer your arguments when you were debating with people like Arix, rwkc etc on issues like Religion, gay-rights etc a couple of months back
However, dont be discouraged; people (you, me) can change
Nothing is cast in stone, especially views

“Although you are entitled to your views, i must say that i much prefer your arguments when you were debating with people like Arix, rwkc etc on issues like Religion, gay-rights etc a couple of months back”

Yes, just the police. When matter nothing to do with politics, the police can execute with fairness and justice but dealing with political issue, the police left their value and principle behind and just execute from instruction from higher order.

Same particular trait can be identified with some here. They can speak intelligently with “higher debate” perspective but when it comes to politics, they resort to, as some describe, simpleton analysis.

To 116) Robox on November 9th, 2009 5.38 am

Are you referring to this post? 114) Budamaxx1952 on November 8th, 2009 5.27 pm.

I was wondering if you were speaking from experience as this post 83) Budamaxx1952 on November 6th, 2009 2.56 pm praised your “astounding posts” and “intelligence”.

Just wondering.

To Ohnani on November 9th, 2009 9.11 am:

Re: “To 116) Robox on November 9th, 2009 5.38 am…Are you referring to this post? 114) Budamaxx1952 on November 8th, 2009 5.27 pm.”

Certainly not. I’m referring to #113, BryanT’s post.

If you do follow the SDP website, BryanT is the one who alleges – with absolutely no substantiation, since no substatiation is ever necessary when you fight on the PAP’s side – that the SDP is fighting for unfettered rights but is himself now whining that he doesn’t get unfetterd rights to abuse the freedom of speech on the privately funded SDP’s website.

BryanT is all over cyberspace now fighting his fascist cause.

Yes, this does in fact come from my experience.

Actually, smallvoice585 makes better arguments than BryanT.

Donaldson on November 9th, 2009 10.45 am:

Re: “Actually, smallvoice585 makes better arguments than BryanT.”

Yes he DID – though I don’t agree that he DOES, if the present tense is used to suggest habitualness.

And then again, smallvoice585 DID only after he was severely challenged. but as I said, Lee Kuan Yew’s agents never feel a need to substantiate when they fight on behalf of their Master.

Dear 113) BryanT on November 8th, 2009 4.36 pm

Thank you very much for your concern. I think you know that my psychological and intellectual constitution are made of much sterner stuff than to be rattled by desperate name-calling. In fact, I’m quite entertained by it.

Thanks to all who said positive things about my arguments. But I must appeal to netizens here not to be concerned about their superiority or inferiority in relation to others. Such trivialities should not distract us from our real mission which is the elevation of the debate between opposing views that are vigorously expounded and passionately felt.

I also encourage people who disagree with me not to relent but to reinforce their arguments with more cogency and to inform their advocacy with more knowledge and evidence. That way, hopefully, they can demolish my arguments more legitimately.

“When an unsuccessful ploy is relentlessly pursued, it becomes “attention grabbing”. Why? Because it serves no other purpose!”

it takes lots of hard work for one to move a mountain and there is no guarantee that one will finish doing it in his lifetime – but it takes someone to move the first rock and show the others that the first rock, second rock or the third rock can indeed be moved. while at the same time it is easier to see from the current frame of time that the big mountain is still there and it may take a lot of other people to finish the work.

@108) Robox on November 7th, 2009 3.28 pm

Thanks for your compliments, however, to be a good politicians, in my opinion, one has to possess two qualities.

1.) One has to want to serve
2.) One has to have the capability to serve

On both counts, I do not qualify. What I can do is to give my vocal support to those who qualified, in my eyes, the above two points.

To me, all PAP MPs failed on the first point. Once, a long time ago, some of the old guards possessed these two points but the newer cohorts no longer possess this.

As for the opposition, I recognise some do not possess the second quality (in fact many Singaporeans erroneously thought ALL opposition lacks the second criteria), but many do possess both and in those few, I give my full support, regardless of which party they come from. That much I can do.

I will also continue to push for the support of an opposition alliance, which I feel is the best way to break the PAP hegemony. Unfortunately, without first hand knowledge of the inner workings of various opposition parties, I do not know what is the real obstacle towards that alliance. I can at best speculate.

@122) smallvoice585 on November 9th, 2009 5.49 pm

No one really has the final answer to the effectiveness of civil disobedience in Singapore. Even though I disagree with this strategy, it is still after all, my opinion. I had urged SDP to adopt a different strategy, especially those that proved to work for WP and SPP (which really is old SDP, whereas the current SDP is “new SDP”), but they are the one doing the hardwork, hence their own counsel they will keep.

It is really easy to dish out advice in the comfort of our home in relative anonymity but there are real people out there risking their way of life to champion for our cause. At the end of the day, we can give advice but it would be churlish of us to hurl at them our abuses or give them our scorn if they do not follow our advice.

Whether our dear Mr Toolang wish to admit or not, over 300,000 Singaporean voters voted for them, and if we were to extrapolate this percentage to the entire population, that will be more than 1 million people.

One million or more people has no corresponding representation in parliament. This mutated proportion is something everyone should be concerned about, nevermind about the strategies of individual opposition parties.

In another time and another age, this taxation without representation had spurred greater reaction than what we have now.

At the end of the day, everyone has to do their part.

btan,

There is already a benchmark that 30% of the voters will vote for the oppositions come what may. If a political party cannot even secure this benchmark in a GE and still want to shout at the top for everyone to hear with all its idiosyncracies and theatrical shows to amuse us, do you think it deserves the voters’ support, let alone a united opposition camp?

To 126) Toolang on November 10th, 2009 10.38 am

There is already a benchmark that 30% of the voters will vote for the oppositions come what may. If a political party cannot even secure this benchmark in a GE and still want to shout at the top for everyone to hear with all its idiosyncracies and theatrical shows to amuse us, do you think it deserves the voters’ support, let alone a united opposition camp?

>> In my opinion, voting CSJ into the Parliment is an appealing proposal now.

>> Firstly, he’s bold enough to pursue and ask critical questions that so many people wants to know; such as Temasek losses, Influx foreigners, HDB losses… etc.

>> Secondly, he will hound the MPs to work harder for their salaries; like his engagement with George Yeo over the internet; and his perseverance is what is lacking in the opposition camp right now.

>> Thirdly, if PAP tries so hard to keep him out, maybe it’s time to send him in.

>> Fourth, if he’s as bad as you think of, it surely won’t be a threat to the current regime. First class team must have no problem handling just one CSJ.

I have no problem for any opposition member to be elected into Parliament to ask and challenge the existing protocols which is healthy and beneficial for all of us. First and foremost, the candidate must get his priority right so that the majority of Singaporeans can accept and vote for him. No point of shouting at the top of his voice and throwning tantrum and putting up a show at every opportunity for us to watch. Bear in mind that election result is based on the first-past-the-post basis, if the majority of voters can support his ideas and proposals. I do not think bad of any candidates and on the contrary, I admire their courage to come out in public to challenge the status quo. I only disagree with their tactics, antics, idiosycracies, etc, which cannot stand the scrutiny. Anyway, the law forbids a bankrupt to stand for election unless one clears his debt. This is the price one has to pay if one is not careful and shoot from all directions. In the end, all voters are the losers as we are deprived of a person’s courage and talent to speak for all of us.

@126) Toolang on November 10th, 2009 10.38 am

The benchmark is your own standard. And when you judge according to that standard, of course it seemed they lack credibility. Just like if I decide the passing mark is 60 out of 100, someone who scored 59 would have failed.

Personally, I don’t think being opposition automatically gets you votes. Otherwise, there will be no candidates that will lose their deposits, which is a fact in the past election.

Rather, I see it as this way. 30% to 35% is normal performance, 15% to 30% is poor performance. 35% to 45% is good performance. 45% to 50% means ready to win. Less than 15% means the candidate should give up. Of course over 50% means they win.

So therein lies the difference between your views and mine. Our benchmark is different.

As for SDP making “noise”, have you ever absorbed their message? Have you critically read through their ideas? If your answer is yes, then you should state why their ideas is wrong.

Sometimes I feel that those who are bitter at SDP are former supporters who felt “betrayed” by SDP’s key persons being arrested and in the case of CSJ, disqualified as candidate. In that case, I should remind these people who is the REAL cause? SDP or PAP?

Voting is never a secret in Sg lol.

I hates elections cos only a few lucky ones can actually vote. Those who vote against the PAP always will find their ward redraw elsewhere if the majority vote against. Why do u think the elect team been doing? doing nothing for four years?

Come on, make voting secret by removing the location id leh…

If no one in a GRC, and if PAP vote fall below 50%, they must share it with the opposition to make things fairer.

The opposition will have better luckyif they contest in a never contest before ward or if the PAP promises not to touch those wards and left it alone as a single ward.

Sg really needs people representation. We r living in fire and water now, it taxes increase every year…waolao…cannot tahan anymore and 40s once they lose their jobs, game over!

Will the high and mighty take notice pls!

btan,

The benchmark of 30% opposition votes is the Singapore standard over many GEs, definitely not mine. If I understand your reasoning correctly: 30% to 35% is normal performance, 15% to 30% is poor performance. 35% to 45% is good performance. 45% to 50% means ready to win. Therefore, the party that got less than 30% in the last GE is a poor performer. Am I correct? I am sure you have many excuses for the poor performance. My view is that the voters do not agree or support the tactics all along and translated into votes. Why then continue to pursue such tactics to date instead of changing course and learn from the more successful? We don’t need rocket science to change course and follow the more successful candidates’ tactics.

I do not subscribe to your view that being opposition automatically does not get you votes as others had proven it. The opposition had even been invited to appear in last Sunday’s Talking Point to epouse her view. There were many reasons why candidates lost their deposits in the past election.

There is no different in the Singapore benchmark set by the voters all these years unless of course you want to set your own benchmark for others to follow.
Whether one absorbs the message and agree or not, the votes received during the GE is the final arbiter. There is no right or wrong idea in politics. It is whether you agree or disagree with the idea floated. In other words, put to the vote and let the majority decide in GE. No point of arguing until the cows come home when the voters have the final say.

@131) Toolang on November 12th, 2009 11.44 am

The fact that you easily dismiss the multiple obstacles contributing to the lack of winning of opposition as excuses shows you have not think critically.

I have already given you numerous analogies but it seems you are difficult to be enlightened.

One day, when you yourself experienced unfair practices done against you, perhaps you will understand. Right now, anyone who performs poorly in your eyes are just losers who have nothing but excuses.

Again, as I said before, I hope you are not a boss or someone in authority. I really pity anyone who has to suffer your judgmental outlook.

How do you expect life in this imperfect world without obstacles? If the other opposition members can get elected into Parliament, including NCMP, I see no reason why you cannot. Some gaps must be amiss somewhere. Perhaps, you long that your opponents would pity you because of your poor performance and allow you some handicaps in the next GE. Any Singaporean parent will know that if a child performs poorly in an examination, tuition from public/private teachers or ’sifu’ is one of the natural choices, besides changing the methodology of study. Do you ever humble yourself or display humility to learn from the more successful opposition members or ’sifu’ and changing the methodology of campaigning? Todate there were 5 opposition seniors who had been elected into Parliament with the same set of obstacles mentioned by you. I am pretty sure they are willing to tutor and dispense advice to any opposition candidates who seek their wise counsel. Please think positive what works and what does not work to win votes. Also, learn from the experienced and more successful opposition members. Whining and harping on the obstacles will not win you votes. The obstacles will be there and not disappear. Get real!

133) Toolang on November 13th, 2009 1.25 am

You are so right again.

Why do these whiners want a level playing field instead of thinking of ways to circumvent obstacles?

It’s this type of can-do attitude that marks all great nations.

Although i have a problem with one example you shared earlier. If a child performs poorly in an examination, can get tuition or ’sifu’ and such. But what if such a child performs excellently in the exams but is in direct competition with the son of the university dean, who barely passed, for the last place in the uni but loses the place because of connections. Or in real life cases where chinese students in malaysia cannot enter the course of study they want just because they are not bumiputra? What is the strategy here if there is only one university? (read one govt)

Because the example you shared can be put in this way. The opposition is the student who does poorly. He can perform better by conducting more meet the people sessions, walk around meeting the residents, generally building his support base, learning from successful opposition, changing the methodology of campaigning etc – akin to the student getting better results because of tuition.

But come election time, where he is campaigning is suddenly redrawn on the electoral map to include 2 PAP strongholds where majority are known to be PAP supporters. And now the majority are PAP voters and he loses. – akin to unfair practises causing the performing student to lose his uni place.

What is the strategy here? How do i get real?

Insight please oh God of Strategy.

Ohnani,

Godwin’s Law condemns such posting and does not deserve any reply!

Toolang,

I must be blind because after reading through what i wrote 3 times i fail to see where i mentioned Hitler.

Either i did mention Hitler by not mentioning Hitler or you are sadly mistaken.

Please impart your wisdom.

Toolang,

Or perhaps you meant the other less well known Godwin’s law against rational reply.

In a case where someone makes a rational argument that you cannot accept and cannot find a reply to but yet is still indignant so you throw out this accusatory phrase hoping to end the argument which exposes the holes in your own – Less well known (By a huge margin)Godwin’s law

Did you mean this Godwin?

Is this the case?

Ohnani,

You have dandruff!

Hi Toolang,

My last reply to you. I still have hope you can pause and think out of the box.

Please try not to be confused between obstacles and unfair practices.

Losing a soccer match because the players are poorly trained, it was raining and the field was wet, these are obstacles.

Losing a soccer match because the referee was very obviously biased against the losing team, that is unfair practices. No amount of “good strategy” can overcome that. That the losing team score maybe one goal despite the referee’s biase does not invalidate the fact that the referee is biase.

Similarly, when you see one or two opposition MPs in parliament ONLY, you should be questioning why only so few, what’s wrong with the rules. Not thinking : the rules must be fair to allow one or two MPs to enter parliament.

Please tell me which democratic country redraw their electoral boundaries in the last minute?

@139
btan, i cant tell you which democratic country redraws their electoral boundaries. i have not done much research on this field.

But i can tell you which democratic city does the above. =D