Dr Lim Hock Siew is Singapore’s second longest-held political prisoner. He was accused of being a communist and was arrested without trial in 1963 in Operation Coldstore.
After 9 years in detention, he was asked to issue a statement of “repentence and contrition”, which he refused. His sentence was then extended by another 10 years which, Dr Lim says, made the total period he spent behind bars “longer than a life sentence.”
He was released in 1982.
Dr Lim made his first post-detention speech on 14 November 2009, to coincide with the arrival of US President, Barack Obama, in Singapore for the Apec Summit.
Watch the video, shot & edited by Martyn See, of Dr Lim’s speech below.
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I do not think communism has failed. I think eventually LKY’s system will fail.
If Karl Marx really talk crap, how come so many Nordic countries follows his idea and become one of the most advance nation in the world.
Nordic country real tax to its rich citizen may reach 80% and transfer it to the poor. Isn’t that a kind of paradise?
If that is communism I am a communist as well.
We all have been fooled by LKY.
@noiseMaker on November 16th, 2009 10.17 pm
I have no doubt that you are against his detention . I had read what you had wrote, and i am saying that your logic is flawed . Read my above comments again to know why. Let him be judged by his actions instead of being fed into believing that he is someone which he already said he is not .
You said at post 29.
“I admired Dr. Lim for i can see he is a very intelligent person and have the charisma to bring about change.”
Followed by “Even Osama bin Laden is intelligent and charismatic. ”
Again by “If satan is to come to this world, I can assure you, he will be the most appealing individual in the whole wide world, for he is more intelligent and more charismatic then anyone you have ever know.”
At post 45 , i said “It is pretty lowdown to demonize someone by indiscriminatingly linking him to Osama bin Laden and Satan for the sake of being intelligent and charismatic.”
At post 49 , you told me this now “The use of Osama and Satan is not to link Dr. Lee with them, you are simply being malicious.”
Can you please enlighten me how you manage how not to link osama and satan with Dr.Lee by highlighting that they are all intelligent and charismatic . Why were Osama and Satan even introduced into your comments in first place then ????
It is not late for Singaporeans to wake up to acknowledge the bravery and sacrifices of these people. Treat them as heros. Talk about them amongst your family and friends. Also spread words of the cruelty of such detention. Above all fight for the abolition of the ISA.
Dr. Lim Hock Siew you are a far, far greater man than Lee Kuan Yew.
Whatever admiration we may have for Lee Kuan Yew has come to naught..
Said Zahari’s description of Lee Kuan Yew being a coward is indeed true. Lee Kuan Yew can’t compete fairly man-to-man with people like Chia Thye Poh and Dr. Lim Hock Siew.
Even today Lee Kuan Yew’s PAP needs the GRC system, practises gerrymandering, controlling the press and media to keep themselves (himself) in power.
This breed has gone extinct.
Nowadays, people are loyal to employer as long as the employer pay and pay them salaries that is not a peanut.
Soul bot by money. dirt cheap.
#52, the INC deals with communist country China.
Lots of cooperation.
So, by this i suppose communist country like China is a friend?
@nocityforoldmen – As I had said Mr. Lim is someone very intelligent and charismatic and he has the making of a leader. It is especially such type of people whom we hold respect we have to especially weary because they can make things happen. If it is me, you need not worry I am just an idiot, nobody need to worry a damn thing about me.
I use illustration of Osama Bin Laden to explain that people with intelligent and charisma but with a different ideology cannot be taken lightly. This is a reference of respect to such people and not meant to belittle them.
Satan of course is very intelligent and charismatic, just because he is evil does not mean he is not smart. He is the supreme leader of evil land and can oppose god, how can he be so ordinary. An illustration to say that it does not mean an intelligent and charismatic person is definitely a good man, we got to ask ourselves who is he.
There is no where that I said Dr. Lim is a evil man. His ideology is where I am most concern about. If we give communism a forum, we must also give telebanism a forum, maybe we might even have to give satanism a forum.
As for Osama Bin Laden, he is not evil even, in fact if you are a radical Muslim, he is a man of Allah. He is a good man. But I cannot accept him because I cannot accept him. Too many argument if we are to go into details. His method is too extreme, he kills too many innocent people. To him they are infidel and deserve to die. To him you and I are infidel also deserve to die. To his gang, he is a hero and super person, even nice, friendly and caring.
If I give this man a forum, he will be able to talk many of us to become terrorist and bomb and kill our own people, mind you we will do it most willingly. He is definitely that good. Am I giving him disrespect and trying to be sarcastic? No I am not. This is a very serious problem, he is a real person, not friction.
Bring him to the cul de sac, one on one, I am not afraid of him. Give him air time to speak to the people, I think better not, too dangerous. My guts feeling tell me if I love my freedom I better protect it. If he is free to participate in our country election, maybe he can win a GRC. Eventually he takes over the whole country and then we will be talabanized. I must give up my faith, or kill myself else no way out. I think i will kill myself cause I won’t give up my faith. Before this can happen, it is either he die or i die.
In the hope of preventing disaster, I hope these people disown their ideology and then we can live harmoniously. However it is not that easy.
to #29) noisemaker
“I certainly have no regret for my involvement and participation in politics although I had to pay a heavy price for it. I am still a socialist who believes in democracy for the people and social justice for the working classes.” Dr Lim Hock Siew
- as reported in Malaysiakini 11 Jul 2007.
In a time of gluttony of the capitalist, by the capitalist, for the capitalist. Maybe the sword of socialism has to be unsealth to bring back the balance, so that the true invisible hand of the free market economy can again function and thrive in a healthy way. How ironic.
What we are seeing today is NOT a healthy, thriving free market economy in action. It is a very loped sided power grab by the business elite, and by extention, into the political (right wing) elite, that if left unchecked, will eventually lead to enslavement of the common man and this condition will erupt into chaos and bring much suffering in a connected world economic system.
True communism is long dead with the fall of the Berlin wall, what you have in Russia and China is only a semblance of government, exercising power over their respective countries. The so called communist party conveniently inherited the country and the people and embrace the capitalist mentra. They are not communist and certaintly not an iota of socialism, that we can rightly identify with.
You want socialism, see western Europe! Which our MSM and some segment of Americans are having fun denigrading.
We trust that the Chinese “communist” know too well the excesses of the capiltalist system. Their great acrobatic kungfu can hopefully help tame the discontent in their own family.
In time to come, then maybe we can entertain the reality of a bipolar world order (or disorder). i digress.
“However we must not adore his ideology. Communism is not for Singapore. We will be worst than what terrible stage we are in now. Communism will rob us of our right to vote and there is no general election every five years.”
Why is people here wasting time entertaining noiseMaker, a PAP troll or member of PAP IB ? What can you expect from someone who highly likely on PAP payload ?
Coud we not identify who this noisemaker is ?
To keep his dynasty from going downhill after his death, believe me, LKY will apologise to all political detainees INDIRECTLY during his last breathe.
For a man who betrayed his fellow countrymen to work for the Japanese, i dont see why he would not ‘sell himself’ out again.
If not for the Internet, and if not for TOC, how are we to know about this great man? Will ST report this? I have never heard about this man until now.
A forumer (supposedly a local U grad) in the ST forum, “Get best into local varsities”
threatened people with ISD for disrespecting a former Minister. They are open about it, using ISD for matters including dis-respect for former PAP Minister and ‘respect’ is as defined by them. The whole system is a shamble!
@Utopia – what crap r u talking? I m on PAP payload. U then on PAP payload. U want to promote communism for PAP so that they can stay on power forever.
U love communism then give all your money to the state. Work as a road sweeper, you can get the same pay as a manager. Everybody takes the same pay so good. Since my pay is so low, I really don’t mind getting the same pay as you.
PAP loves to be communist like China. Don’t need to vote. Forever they can get their extremely high pay not having to worry every five years coming to face election.
Stop pretending Utopia, you are then the PAP troll.
@noiseMaker on November 16th, 2009 11.29 pm:
You are not thinking straight; just commenting based on your own prejudice towards communism. If you even watch the video once thoroughly, it does describe Dr Lim Hock Siew as a staunch socialist right at the end. You either disbelieved or missed that part altogether.
Still, if you think about his whole talk and the story of his life, your point about him promoting communism does not stick. He was detained without trial and charged to be a communist. His entire life story is that throughout his detention, no matter how he was tortured or bribed, he never once took the position of admitting that he is a communist. In fact, it is precisely he refused to bow to pressure (to take easy way out) that led to his long detention.
In short, he was detained under ISA as a communist suspect, a charge which he were to deny through his entire life. There was no evidence against him that conclusively proved he was a communist, and the long detention did not make him change his stand. To stand by his own principles no matter what, that is what he calls integrity.
As such, your accusation that Dr Lim is spreading communism is simply an extension of the charges thrown to him long ago, and which have so far not been proven. Considering he spent a large portion of his life without freedom just to maintain that he is not a communist, i would be very inclined to think that his assertion is very much stronger than your mere accusation.
Simply put, if your main point is that Dr Lim is a communist, i would say that his actions so far provide very strong evidence that he is not. His freedom could have been obtained much earlier if he had just issued a statement to show some repentance and save someone’s face. (essentially, that will put him in a ‘guilty as charged’ position as a communist detained under Operation Coldstore).
@ObviousMan – my first comment come upon seeing the first post to this article.1) Oh Holy – who saying what’s wrong with being a communist. Obviously there is connotation that he is a communist. 6) as long as… another case of what’s wrong with being a communist.
Is Dr. Lim a communist? I am asking is he or is he not. If he is not. Good. If he is then I don’t support communism.
I suppose communism is a higher form of socialism. The two is very similar. Why don’t Dr. Lim explains?
In the video he did not argue about being wrongly accuse of being a communist but instead highlight on the torture.
Why hide, if he is not a communist just explain what form of socialist is he?
It is public interest to know.
Who is prejudice against communism? I am and many people too.
China is a communist, they don’t have election, it is always the same party ruling the country. They kill young people trying to ask for democracy with live bullets when these young people is unarmed at the Tiananmen Square. I seen it before I don’t like it.
I am a staunch believer of democracy. I think PAP has too much power and we need to vote in opposition to counter the PAP.
This Dr. Lim seems to be as capable as LKY, got potential of bringing up a party. However if he is a communist then let him say so himself. If he is not, I am so happy. Please don’t come and build a shield around him. Let the man speaks for himself. There is nothing wrong for him to come to the people to say it loud and clear that he is not a communist. Explain his brand of socialism and if it is really not harmful, why not share it with us. Let us be the judge whether it is good or not.
If his ideology is not harmful to Singapore why not bring him on and lets vote for him.
19) noiseMaker on November 16th, 2009 2.45 pm
29) noiseMaker on November 16th, 2009 4.28 pm
33) noiseMaker on November 16th, 2009 5.44 pm
41) noiseMaker on November 16th, 2009 7.17 pm
43) noiseMaker on November 16th, 2009 8.20 pm
49) noiseMaker on November 16th, 2009 10.17 pm
58) noiseMaker on November 16th, 2009 11.29 pm
63) noiseMaker on November 17th, 2009 1.06 am
66) noiseMaker on November 17th, 2009 2.38 am
68) noiseMaker on November 17th, 2009 3.36 am
Hello my friend
I think that is more than enough from you.
And btw please refrain from using the surname of Dr Lim Hock Siew interchangeably between Dr Lim and Dr Lee.
Thank you and take care!
This is the epitome of irony. The guy who helped start the PAP was jailed by them, even without a trial. This is disgusting. I don’t believe I am from a country which evidently has respect for any form of civil liberties what so ever. I think Dr Lim should start his own politcal party. I would definately be voting for a political party which actually knows what democracy means, has an independant media and does not go around editing people’s letters and above all respect’s legal and political rights of all their citizens.
Noismaker:
“… If satan is to come to this world, I can assure you, he will be the most appealing individual in the whole wide world, for he is more intelligent and more charismatic then anyone you have ever know…”
That can be a universal truth.
But it would be preferable if you do not bring your personal religious beliefs into your views to strengthen your arguments.
Singapore is the only country in the world where you will find people justifying these kinds of barbarity as important sacrifices that had to be made for the growth and development of the country.
Imprisoning a man, whose ideas you dont share and who doesnot pose a threat to national security, for 20 years and brutalising him is not the kind of sacrifice any country has to make to achieve growth and development.
this is a man who was working together with LKY in the very same political party. if he is a communist in 1963, he must have been a communist in 1959 and before that while he was with PAP and LKY. should that not make LKY a collaborator of communists?
the charges that these guys are communists simply go against all logic. not only are there barbaric singaporeans who justify locking up a person without trial and using violence to torture him for 20 years, they also insist all these illogical charges cant be untrue.
these barbaric singaporeans are traitors of humanity….
it is precisely because of these kinds of barbarians that we have their counterparts living in out midst
- physically abusing and torturing maids and foreign workers
- physically abusing and torturing recruits
- physically and sexually abusing children of theirs and others
- obstructing spouses or parents from assessing their own kids
- taking away jobs from employees out of bias and driving them to desperation
- asking the desperate to go to another agency and not waste their time
- denying the poor the very entitlements they were bequethed with through the endowments of their ancestors
face this fact… cruelty is the central phenomenon in some singaporeans lives… they are either on the perpertrator end or the receiving end…
so telll this loudly to every Singapore who wants to justify cruelty.. You are a social criminal, I dont wanna hear you!!! enough is enough!!!
Hi noise maker,
a quick one, i don’t think you are a PAP stooge. From your post (a brief glance), i gather that you are very against communism and think that PAP loves communism and fear that they will secure the throne for eternity with communism. This fear is valid and i agree with you just on this one.
i think people are not happy with your posting simply because of the way you question Dr Lim’s being. That’s all.
good day to you.
Oh dear.
This is what happens when you push a man too far; for a while he will contemplate the smallness of his courage; then at some point, he will just say, I have already gone past the point of no return; I have already invested X, Y and Z; I have nothing else to lose and they can no longer do anything that they have not already done to me, my family and pet goldfish etc
I saw this twice. It is perhaps the most strongest piece ever published in TOC as I couldnt sleep very well the whole night.
The moral of the story: never disrespect your enemy; you may not agree with his pov, but that doesnt mean you have a right to rob him of his dignity, self respect. and right as a human being
The moment you disrespect him to the point where you believe you can “cross the line,” you better be careful (PLS BE VERY CAREFUL) as you have earned yourself a VERY formidable enemy that will do more than urinate in your grave; he will come after you: as the serious men of this world will tell you: though you may have won all the battles; unbeknown to you; you have already lost the war the moment you disrespected him and thought that you could do what you like.
Gme over
SD (Internet Liaison officer of the brotherhood)
Sun Tze say keep your friends close and your enemies closer!
We hope more patriots like Dr Lim would come forward and tell their side of history for the young and totally ignorant Singaporeans before it is too late..
Thank you to the 66.6% who voted for PAP! I love you!!!! You have ensured that we will have a free and democratic country for many years to come!!!!
I can tell you all based on my experience in as a liaison officer in virtually 900 dominions in the virtual realm spanning over 428 of our colonies and over 500 protectorates; deep spirited trust is the hardest thing to cultivate; sometimes it takes years, it is like cultivating pearls; it take time and patience but crucially intelligence of the highest quality; as to break an intellectual is not like breaking in a mustang – it takes intelligence; but it is worth its weight in gold; as without trust, you can achieve very little.Nothing infact.
No one will listen to you; you can do nothing. People will just pretend to nod their heads and that is no good. No bloody good.
SD
Hi guys. As someone in the top has mentioned already. It is only the PAPoutcast that have labels him as a communist. The charge was never, i repeat, never proved. The charge is leveled as a convenient tool to retain him because of political differences and because perhaps he wants to use China as a hinterland but the english speaking Old Lee feels using China is bad because he dislike it. He wants to use Malaysia as a hinterland and thus wants to merge Sg with M’sia. And this charge is true, cos he really did merge sg with m’sia! Talk abt democracy lol.
To label a person as a communist in a democracy is serious libel. To retain him is undemocracy.
Anyway back to China, how many of u knows Chinese (China) History? The CCP consists of 8 democracy parties unlike taiwan one party that exists for many years. That is why there r lots of power struggles and no one can succeed to the top so easily. Let refer to Sg…which is more democratic then?
China is founded as a Republic and have many representations. Dont be fooled by lies of one party. Go read history!
“Young PAP ‘school’ takes a leaf from Communist youth”
- 4 March 2009, Straits Times.
“FRESH from a study trip to China last month, the youth wing of the People’s Action Party is taking a leaf from the Communist Youth League in political education and leadership development.”
And from the Young PAP website:
“YP bonding trip to Chendu, China”:
“It was also an educational and fruitful journey during which we interacted with our Chinese counterparts from the China Youth League (‘CYL’) 中国共青团.”
Ode to my Chengdu Delegates
Our friendship is new, like the morning dew
The fog restricts our vision; we still cannot define each other in completion
The rain feels cold and the wetness uncomfortable
Yet your smile makes the journey more than bearable
Like the legacy of Du Fu’s thatched hut,
may the door to your friendship never by shut
Like the brotherhood of Liu Bei, Guan Yu and Zhang Fei,
from you memories may I never fade
By the Treasures unearthed at JinSha Basin,
we are always prepared to overlook each other’s sins
As we stand by all the oil and chili in our steamboat
Let us salute and say, “YP got Hope”!!!
~Christopher Koh, YP Punggol Central
Should the YP offer its “repentence” and “contrition”?
what the hell you talking about what colonies protectorates rubbish!
to 55) JW,
Agree with you absolutely.
It is befitting that Dr. Lim Hock Siew and LKY be remembered………………………….
……………………………………………………………………….BUT for different reasons.
to 71) SD,
“never disrespect your enemy; you may not agree with his pov, but that does not mean you have a right to rob him of his dignity, self respect and right as a human being”……………………….could not have said it better !
to 72) reader,
“Sun Tze say keep your friends close and your enemies closer ! ”
LKY was doing just that.
He kept the enemies ( Japanese ) during WW2 closer……. by working for them.
He kept his perceived political opponents closer………. in detention cells.
The British outlawed the Communist Party and declared an emergency in Malaya (which included Singapore). The ISA was a legistration which the colonial master used in its political suppression of Communist Party of Malaya. The Emergency was lfted when the British felt that the threat of the CP was not serious enough to justified that. However, the ruling parties in Singapore and Malaysia chose to keep the ISA for political expediency in crippling their political opponents. The communist branding was used as a justification because it was outlawed before. The issue here is one of democracy, whether we have the rights to participate in the political development of the country not one of ideologies. A government that uses such draconian method to suppress and wipe out its political opponents is a farcist one. One of the reason why PAP was thrown out the Socialist International in the mid 70s. A democratic system is one that allow the people to vote and decide fairly. Throwing the whole leadership of an opposition party (in this case Barisan Socialis) was definitely foul play. The ISA must be abolish!
TOC, it will be swell to organize a reading group to meet & discuss the books written by Dr Lim Hock Siew, Poh Soo Kai etc…I can also think of others, who in the later generation such as Tay Kheng Soon, have mused about a different modernity for Singapore. I think it is time for us, and up to us in this current generation to re-engage them, tap their spirit and continue their work in dreaming, building a viable, modern Singapore – with integrity and autonomy.
It’s a new dawn awakening.
boys and girls.
My mama did not raise a fool. What do I mean by this? It means if you want to see the communist threat in its rightful scale and perspective; then you CANNOT deny it’s historical context and setting, if you do that, its like going to the Sistine chapel and saying the frescoe is just a bible comic. Do you understand?
I am only a young man, so all this things that once happened to the good doctor is as alien to me as when my granny talks about having to eat millet laced with rat meat during the Japanese occupation.
But I have read up extensively on the period; what cannot be denied is the communist threat was once upon a time a CLEAR and PRESENT danger; not only to Sg but to the rest of the free world – did you know that when the Russians launched sputnik; most Americans started building nuclear shelters in their backyard en masse? – my point is we cannot forget this: the red menace was very REAL and it dominated much the geo-political and national security considerations.
This should always be borne in mind. Dont say I am supporting the PAP. You all know I am not. But we are all sportsmen; we owe it ourselves to be fair and to see things in the right scale; we should not forget the historical context and setting that Dr Lim for some inexplicable reason did not see fit to mention.
audi alteram partem
SD
If we are all sportman, then why didnt the Communist take over Hong Kong and Macao first?
In those days, there are strikes and racial riot due to ineffective british rules and sg as a colonial is bankrupting the empire.
When the PAP take over, strikes are banned, UNions are to be state controlled. So many controls…dont u think we r a communist already?
Noisemaker:
Dr Lim’s communist leanings are not proven. Whatever your proclivities and sympathies, continuing to repeat an unproven fact is damaging to Dr Lim, who has suffered sufficiently. Do desist. Open up another separate anti-commie thread, lol.
Marxist!
Let me put it this another way: if communism was not perceived as a clear & present danger to the free world; none of us would even be having this conversation today; we will still be using slow mail or homing pigeons; as the internet was nothing more than a doomsday communication tool conceived by the pentagon to survive a full scale communist nuclear attack – why would anyone in their right frame of mind do that if it wasnt a perceived threat?
A wise man does not close one eye just to convince his brain; he is right.
SD
@singaporedaddy,
You r projecting your present frame of understanding into the past. History has not been written, and is not closed on the Cold War in this region. It can only serve us better, in this generation to understand from their own perspectives i.e. Dr Lim, Zahari & co. what was going on then during those tumultuous times. I, for one, am not ready to accept ‘history’ as you unreflexively put it as simplistically a ‘Free World’ vs ‘Communism’ because it is precisely this simplicity that opens up society to abuses of justice.
During the era of the cold war, communist parties were legal in some countries around the world including USA. In Singapore LKY exploited this threat to kill off his ideological foes within the PAP. These people may have socialist leaning but communist they are not. LKY managed to hide the ultra capitalist within him so
well that Singaporeans were fooled for 50 years. Many Singaporeans are still under the hypnotic spell of LKY. Time to wake up.
After ridding the PAP of the leftish socialist elements, LKY moved against many of the old guards like Dr. Toh Chin Chye who are less capitalist than himself. They were prematurely retired so that LKY can take the full credit to himself. Now LKY is moving against the Western Liberals in Singapore. People like Dr. Chee
was targetted.
So u can see that it is inherent in LKY’s nature to dominate and dominate alone. It is not ideology. Only one person can become a great emperor and he must be the one. Anyone who stands in his way must be destroyed. Simple as that. The man is extremely selfish and cold hearted.
@singaporedaddy,
If you’re talking about the ideology then what you said is total bs. Communism stems from the word commune or community, it is for the greater good. It is always meant to be for the people and not just for a select few. However Authotharian leadership abused the system and the people suffered for it. By the way, the soviets were innovators. Don’t restrict yourself to what happened in the past. If not we’ll end up like the majority of americans. Suffering now, because they embraced capitalism and rejected whatever that was socialist.
Re
Unlike Vietnam, Malaya Communist are never able to pose a credible military thread to anybody, not even in guerilla warfare, and never as a conventional arm forces.
A predominantly Islam religion in Malaya deprive communist of its support base. Morover, the social division is neither acute in Malaya until the poor take up arms.
The insurgency has already been defeated militarily in 1960.
And communist who participate in democratic process is not unlike the socialist in Europe.
LKY blown up communist thread to take power. Now he still shamlessly brag around how he defeated communist …. bla bla
Very very angry after watching it.
For almost 20 years being tortured by a fucking good life and high pay government of 50 years.
Feel like showing my middle finger infront of LKY face.
But we must follow the system..
VOTE HIM OUT is the only way.
Wait up Singaporean, VOTE HIM OUT…. to show support to all people under tortured by him.
Come on people. Dr Lim was someone, like all political insurgents of that era who does not comply with the white code of the PAP – and therefore it was necessary to banish him into obscurity. That was the rightful thing to do so that Singapore could make progress to what it is today; as envisioned by the great visionary that we have all come to know. Some would say it so sweetly, “The ends justify the means”.
Dr Lim, you are a generation too late. You could have fought history while it was being made. You certainly cannot fight history, now that it has been written.
All Hail PAP! All Hail the Capitalists!
Down with Communism! Down with political insurgency!
PAP, PAP, PAP – you’re the BEST.
Can we now ask whether that Ukrainian in our army, mentioned by the MM, is a communist or not? Are there going to be future soldiers in our armed forces coming from the fatherland of Communism? Are the communists now more trustworthy than the communists of fifty years ago? What makes them so different that we can trust them to defend all that we have, and all things dear to us?
I think we had better think about this more carefully.
Good afternoon walau, dd et al,
“You r projecting your present frame of understanding into the past.” You know what? You could be 100% right; as when the good doctor was jailed – I did not even exist then; short of being an illicit itch somewhere in my papa’s trousers.
But like I said, I invested a lot of time reading up on that period (I am not saying no one here did, I just get that sinking feeling that may be the case) and I would strongly recommend that if some of you genuinely want to understand something; then it doesn’t pay to just run on the account of one video; that’s a bit like deciding to marry a girl just after the first date; my point is you really need to do some homework and try to bring a sense of historical scale and perspective into understanding why communism was considered such a threat during that point in time.
The danger as I see it is; if we start short cutting instead of crafting an accurate sense of scale and perspective to make sense of this discussion; then what invariably happens is many of us may just say “they r always like that lah,” very much in the way we look derisively at full frontal tobacco advertisements from some bygone age – and wax lyrical, they didnt know better, when infact, it is actually us who know nuts abt the geo-political threats sorrounding that tumultuous period.
Can anyone here tell me how would that kind of shallow approach contribute to a better understanding? I give you the facts; you decide for yourself.
SD (Internet Liaison officer of the brotherhood)
@noisemake
You r indeed making alot of noise :-) U r not Dr Lim, I m not Dr Lim so why r u purporting to speak on his behalf, suggesting compensation, apology from e gahmen etc? I feel there is more at stake here – its something bigger than the individual narrative of Dr Lim the ‘maligned patriot’, ‘false communist’ or whatever u want to call him; its about a spirit and idealism of an entire generation; its about the conviction and courage to imagine possibilities apart from a hegemonic vision of the reigning regime – its the spirit of independence(of thinking) that Singaporeans of later generation has forsaken for the promise of material prosperity.
@SD
Eloquent poetry :-) ! I can only suggest that you shift your ‘scale and perspective of history’ rather than affix it uncritically from an American Cold War angle.
That said, I m not suggesting that the ‘Communists’ r angels but to say absolutely that its a war against Evil is propogandistic which makes for the worst kind of history/history-making ever.
Its one thing to read and another to think.
Give the man his due respect as his resolves has not been broken after more than 20 years of mental torture !
No difference from the Nazis who operated concentration camps in Dachau in Munich and Auschwitz in Krakow, Poland !
singaporedaddy:
The question is whose perspectives are you reading from. The so-called communist threats were a part of nationalism movements across Asia. Because they were the most organised armed resistant against the Japanese invasion and upon the surrender of the Japanese imperialists then seeked to drive out the colonial masters which came to colonise asia for some 400 years. Ideologies had galvanised a generation in their pursuit of idealism. Without the support of the 400 million Chinese people, the CCP would not be able to drive out the Japanese imperialist and then successfully win the fight against the KMT which had the support of US then. And the 400 million Chinese people were not stupid.
But in the case of the struggle in singapore, the communists were just one group, the fajar generation was another extra ordinary group of young people – english educated and came mainly from privileged familes with more options in life and they had exercised their options to pursuit of their ideal society. You should buy the book and read the chapter of our history from their perspectives.
Hi Different Perspectives,
From the brief script of your sharing; you’re definitely a heavy weight and you certainly know your stuff; so with your kind permission; I am going to concede my initial position – you could well be right; its conceivable my knowledge may even be so woefully incomplete to suggest I better stop here, otherwise I may run the risk of making a complete fool of myself.
“You should buy the book and read the chapter of our history from their perspectives.” Fair enough. That is a good idea. I will buy many copies and even circulated it around our cycling club and even have a book club discussion after all of us have chewed on it.
Many thanks and pls do feel free to make the allowances for my shortcomings.
Best regards
SD
when you see the large number of people who turn up to greet and welcome PAP MPs including LKY, it only shows that majority of singaporeans dont know any of this information on TOC. the lens through which they see PAP is the lens that is shaded by the news, information, opinions provided by Medicorp and ST.
majority of Singaporean are not reviled by PAP because they know nothing or little of PAP beyond all the good stuff they are told. when you ask them if they know all the atrocities of PAP, they look at you in utter disbelief. i am asking each one of you reading this to go out and tell the story of Dr Lim to a totally new stranger you get to meet and who is not of your own background in education, income. nobody will believe you
if you do show them this video, they will justify what PAP did by saying that PAP had to do to curb communism, to protect Singapore etc etc… majority of singaporeans dislike PAP policies but they believe in the dominance of PAP, the rule of PAP and the governance of PAP.
when you look at the top 30% of Singaporeans, primarily those who work within the government, they will never give up their support for PAP.
as much as PAP may claim they won the sembawang GRC due to malay voters, which is bullshit because each election PAP performs the worst in Eunos GRC because of malay voters.
the majority of chinese voters in singapore as LKY says do not really wish for democracy. they want autocracy, with PAP dominating the parliament. if you look at the earlier periods you see lots of Chinese politicians opposing LKY. but they were from the earlier periods of Singapore where Singaporeans saw themselves above the divisions of race. the first prime minister of singapore who was selected by a chinese majority electorate was actually a jew
but since the moment singapore became divided by race vote in 1959, it has remained as such. if you see the opposition to PAP since then, you wont find 80% of opposition members being chinese…. after the last heros of 1963, till today we have not seen a single rich or influential chinese walking out of his comfort zone to fight for his country or people other than Francis Seow… we need more chinese to step forward like Dr.Lim to sacrifice for their country and their people