It should be “Singapore was just a fishing village BEFORE the arrival of Sir Stamford Raffles”. After which, Singapore was developed into something which had not been seen in the SEA region, that is, a well-developed colony of that time.

We will never return to be a fishing village.. just another political rhetoric.. lately some of it have been a little distasteful if you ask me…

Test excavations revealed a surprising number of pre-colonial artifacts dating back to the 14th century, and thereby demolishing the common acceptance and belief that Singapore Island was a backwater fishing village prior to the arrival of the Europeans. Artifacts uncovered include ceramics from the Yuan Dynasty period in China, Indian glass beads, Chinese porcelain wares and copper cash.

The Fort Canning site is not only a 14th century stronghold. Thus far, it also possesses a much unexamined military, historical, colonial, and urban archaeology.

http://www.seaarchaeology.com/v1/html/sg/fort_canning.html

But I haven’t heard anyone say that Singapore was a fishing village before independence. Where are the quotes?

In the early 1900s , Albert Einstein and Sun Yat-sen were in Singapore to raise funds for their respective causes . Why would anyone come here to raise funds if it was just a relatively poor and backward place compared to the rest of the world ?

Later in the1940s, Singapore was part of the Crown Colony of the British Empire , and was dubbed the impregnable fortress. When it fell , Churchill even called it the” worst disaster and largest capitulation in British history”.
Why was there so much significance paid to just a small fishing village ?

Indded, the PAP built modern Singapore. The entire WORLD acknowledges this. We can pretend but really we can’t bluff educated people these days. magine if it were Lim Yew Hock (LYH). People are no kids . Every year abt 10 million visitors come to Singapore. They see. They compare. They judge. And they deliver the verdict. So top leaders around the world ask for MM to share his success story not TR (probably if they wanted an enemy submarine).

The best airport, best airline, busiest seaport in PSA, HDB estates, best schools, best civil service, best transport (eg expressways, viaducts, flyovers, MRT, LRT) & communication hub, best banking hub, etc., etc. These don’t happen under Mahartia or LYH. Do they?

Imagine if we were still a part of Malaysia today . Goodness me . . . Singapore might just cost and behave like another JB. That’s already a compliment because everyone knows without Singapore next to Johor today, there might not even be a JB to start with.

Yes, in as much as we wish to write trash for the politics of it we’ve to count our blessings and give credit where it is due to facts where people can SEE & APPRECIATE, otherwise we begin to lose credibility.

article taken from???

http://frankcomment.blogspot.com/2009/04/if-singapore-was-nothing-more-than.html

no wonder la, all fishermen

while history is important, history can be manipulated to suit one’s needs.

Yes, Fort Canning showed a culture and civilisation before colonialisation.

Singapura or Temasek goes all the way back to Srivijaya and Majapahit kingdoms. After which, was under the rule of the Johor sultanate.

It has been an important part of the regional shipping route for a long time. i would be surprised if it was just a “fishing village” even before Raffles’ time.

I would think, if history developed differently, we could be a Penang, or Malacca? We could have been Malaysia’s New York while KL becomes Malaysia’s Washington DC. Or the British may have hung on to us, and we could have been a south-east asian Hong Kong? Or if the US asserted itself – we could have been a Hawaii or Guam? or if the left-wing elements took control, we could have been a Vietnam? Or Sukarno/ Suharto might have exerted their authority and we could have been an East Timor or extension of Batam?

well, whatever it is, there is no good or bad. Everything is relative, isnt it?

To James Oh,

Verily you speak the truth.

“The best airport, best airline, busiest seaport in PSA, HDB estates, best schools, best civil service, best transport (eg expressways, viaducts, flyovers, MRT, LRT) & communication hub, best banking hub, etc., etc. These don’t happen under Mahartia or LYH. Do they?”

This line above speaks volumes.

Awards in 2009 as follows
Best Airport – Incheon International in Seoul

Best Airline – Cathay Pacific

Busiest Seaport in the World – Shanghai since 2005

Number 1 University – Harvard

Best transport – Not sure about any recent developments but we won best passenger experience in 2008

Best Civil Service – Not sure about this as i can find no information on this but i think we can qualify for best paid civil service (Higher echelons only)

Best banking hub – I can find no information on this. Please enlighten me.

Best communication hub – Again i can find no information on this. Where do you get your info?

You also missed a few. We have the best sports hub, best biotech hub, best hdb hub, best r&d hub, best starhub, best water hub, best intergrated resorts hub, best construction hub, best political hub, best immigration hub, best education hub, best cybergame hub, best manufacturing hub, best oil refining hub, best ship repair hub, best media hub, best alternative media hub, best medical facilities hub.

I can go on and on.

The PAP is truly the bestest in the universe. Oh ya. The best space hub.

Only one thing we cannot excel in. We can never be a nursing home hub. That is reserved for Johor.

Just how developed was S’pore before the PAP?

Here’s another source, from W.G.Huff’s book “The Economic Growth of Singapore”: “At the beginning of the 1950s, S’pore was the most important telecommunications centre in the Far East, not just for shipping, but as a focal point for airlines, telecommunications and distribution of mail … S’pore was almost certainly the only place in Asia where there is a really substantial middle class … In the mid-1950s the island had 30 people per private car and British Malaya 70. No other country in Asia had under 120.”

@11
I think we can be Best nursing home hub, just that we cant offer the best low cost nursing home hub.

@James Oh on November 30th, 2009 4.56 pm

Of the 4 Asian tigers, South Korea had change of government /President from different political parties many times, Taiwan has dramatic politics and a divided population on the topic of independence , Hong Kong always has some higher up controlling it , first the British until 1997 and now the CCP.

They are so ‘unfortunate’ not to have a dominant political party like PAP to lead them, but yet they are as or even more prosperous and successful than Singapore. WHY ? The biggest possibility is that it is the PEOPLE of these economies who made it all happen.
What is the use of having the BEST of so many BESTs when the people are not LIVING THE BEST as they should have ?

Ultimately, it is the PEOPLE of Singapore , the hardworking and thrifty population who had tirelessly contributed and built the Modern Singapore . It is not to say that the PAP did not play a crucial part, but they are not the main ingredient. The PAP should be grateful to the older generations who had sacrificed and instead of seeing them as burden to the state’s resources. And we know who are the kind of person who likes to claim credits for everything. If one can really be so good in turning a fishing village into a cosmopolitan city , consider taking up the challenge of developing a place like East Timor and show us his real talents!

@”Imagine if we were still a part of Malaysia today . ” – LKY and the PAP were the ones who insisted on joining the Malaysia Federation and subsequently got kicked out when LKY did not played according to the UMNO’s rules. It was such an embarrassment to cry on national TV , only Arroyo ,Megawati and of course Liu Bei of 3 kingdoms do that. The Barisan Socialist had the foresight not wanting to join Malaysia and many got jailed instead .James Oh James , Get your facts right before you sprout nonsense. Malaysians will always laugh at people like you when they work half as hard , yet lead a less stressful life and live in a much bigger house . And at the end of the day, they know that their citizenships are pretty exclusive and not free for grabs !

the video in 1938 merely showed the colonical past. There is no doubt LKY and its comrade have managed to transform a small city state without natural resources into what Singapore is today. Some people just hate the ruling party. It’s normal in every countries.

We look back only to remind ourselves where we stand now and what effort is required for us to be us right now.

It can only be taken as a reference but however, should not let it get into our heads and hence end up as a stumbling block in the progress of our tiny nation by kept looking back.

What is important right now, is to look ahead and ask ourselves, what and how are we going to make another successful history for the reference of our next generation down the road to refer back to.

As from the current changes in the mindset of our poeple and society, as we are becoming more individualistic, this speed bump will prove to be a great obstacle for our nation future success.

As the saying goes, “Only when one work as a team, would success be more achieveable”. Which I sadly conclude that we are NOT a team like how our ancestor are as before.

We are no longer as tightly knitted as a whole community as our previous generation.

We had evolved thru the success of our nation, to become more individualistic, selffish, greedy, and most important LESS SENSITIVE to our surrounding.

I can’t say for all, but just look around every now and then, and you will soon see where my point comes from.

To 12) curious citizen on November 30th, 2009 9.26 pm

We all know that the way to go is ‘Cheaper, Better, Faster’.

A low cost nursing home by this standard is far better than a normal nursing home.

Who told like that. Singapore is a nice place to go and enjoy. It is not a fishing village. It is now common for both Singaporeans and expatriates to be seen going for short diving trips, dirt biking, water-skiing, and rock-climbing, among other things, when given the chance.

Ohnani on November 30th, 2009 9.04 pm -

Count your blesings unless you’r enot Singaporean. This is just a tiny red dot. ok!
Numbers in the top places move up and down. Singapore is AMONGST the Best. Happy?

nocityforoldmen on November 30th, 2009 10.23 -

Please check up the size of S Korea and Taiwan against a 700 sq km S’pore. Are u comparing a mosquito with an elephant?

HK. Please lah. HK is a part of China and China is its HINTERLAND as well as its MARKET.

Poor Singapore has to fend for itself in this dog-eat-dog world.

Go and bluff a primary school kid lah.

Facts & truth don’t change. This is the period where 100 of thousands of Singaporeans leave on holiday from our Changi Airport to see the REAL world. Frankly, I am one those and I learn the hard facts of life from seeing first-hand out there.

wow, so much of our old buildings a result of Raffles’ efforts in city planning wor.
The British made singapore into Gilbraltar of the East in the early years.

The British is the Father of singapore.

James Oh,
You should submit your very eloquent piece #6 to ST
I guarantee you it will get published.
btw, do you actually think before you write?

To 17) James Oh on December 1st, 2009 11.43 am

I have a few questions for you.

“Please check up the size of S Korea and Taiwan against a 700 sq km S’pore. Are u comparing a mosquito with an elephant?”

nocityforoldmen is saying that a country’s success is ultimately down to it’s people. Are you saying the success of S Korea and Taiwan is because of it’s land size?

By your reasoning of comparing mosquitoes and elephants, i would then be unable to compare the leadership styles of Dell Computers which hire 76,000 plus employees around the world and Apple Inc which employ 35,000 plus employees globally.

‘Poor Singapore has to fend for itself in this dog-eat-dog world.’

Are we in such a unique state? Are there countries which do not have to fend for themselves? In that case aren’t all countries to be pitied just like Singapore?

From your earlier post:

“These (world best accolades) don’t happen under Mahartia or LYH. Do they?”

I am unable to answer that. Because unlike you, i lack the ability to peer into Parellel universes and then through viewing all possible quantum outcomes conclude that the only route Singapore has to success lies with the PAP.

What is true is that the PAP did lead Singapore to success. No one i believe will dispute that. But to claim that the PAP did it against all odds and that ONLY the PAP deserve credit is just to put it politely – Total and utter Bull.

“Count your blesings unless you’r enot Singaporean. This is just a tiny red dot. ok!
Numbers in the top places move up and down. Singapore is AMONGST the Best. Happy?”

Yes i can count my blessings. But i am very greedy. Not only do i want Singapore to have the Best Airline, Airport, Transport System, etc as you have listed out, i also want the bestest government in the world to be the best at other things.

I would also like Singapore to have the Most Accountable Government, The Most Transparent Government, The Government with the best checks and balances, The Country with one of the lowest GINI coefficients along with one of the highest standards of living, The Most Free Press, The Country with the best Human Rights record, etc. These are just a few things at the top of my head, i’m sure other commentators can give more.

Can the PAP Government give this to it’s citizens?

If it can, then TOC and TR would become what the Straits Times does now. Singing nothing but praise to the PAP. I too would join in this chorus.

If it can’t, then i cannot with conscience vote for it or sing it’s praise just because of past laurels no matter how excellent the and i cannot stress this enough – PAST achievement.

For example, the Intel 8008 microprocessor allowed the home computer revolution to take off. I could go on and on about it’s accolades. The question is, would you buy one as your CPU today?

If you can, i salute you. Because i am the kind of person that cannot buy something that in the past gave a great performance but cannot perform to my expectation now.

The notion that Singapore was a fishermen village was not prior to PAP emergence to power but rather prior to British arrival. This was the colonisers narratives which was uttered by the state after independence. If one were to look at historical text of the Malays, Singapore was not a quiet fishermen village but a vibrant trading port even before Raffles arrive.

The flourishing trading port of Temasek was a center of convergence to Chinese and Indian traders but was unfortunately ravaged by invaders during the turbulent times of Siamese rivalry in the late 1700s. Hence when Raffles first arrived in Singapore, it was INDEED a fishing village.

We cannot deny that the British had left behind a solid infrastructure for the PAP after independence. But that’s only for the colonial offices and the CBD. My parents, like most Singaporeans then lived in villages and squatters outside of the rich zone. They had no electricity, no running water, there were gang fights, robbery and even deadly crimes which even the British did not bother to solve.

My parents lived through THAT PERIOD. They are your average senior citizens of today’s society with their money in the CPF and they are not rich people. But still, you ask them whom they respect most for building Singapore and they say Lee Kuan Yew. SIngapore wasn’t as glossy as all those colonial buildngs that you see in the video. Ask your grandparents.

pembebasan (freedom) on December 1st, 2009 2.42 pm -

Your sejarah (history) is lacking or is it from a Malaysian university?

The Red Indians of Singapore are the Orang Laut & Peninsular Malaysia, the Orang Asli. Not talking abt it means katak di-bawah tempurong.

Where you from (mana ku berasal?)? I’m an ex-Malaysian so you can’t tipu-tipu (bluff). Najib himself appeared before the Indonesian TV when he visited Indonesia last month where he told the audience that his grandparents menghijrah (migrated from Indonesia). He is Bugis. And all majority of the rest are also pendatang (immigrants) from Indonesia – Acehnese, Boyan, Javanese, or India, Middle East, etc. He was trying then to pacify the host of the talk show over the food origin debacle, the Malaysian bombings in Jakarta., etc.

Bebas? I think UMNO better bebas the orang asli and the Indians and Chinese. Unshackle them from the evil claws of the 45-year-old NEP.

Reflect, when the Javanese & Madurese crossed over to Kalimantan, what did the Dayaks @Pontianak do? Check the web. When the Javanese went to Aceh what did the Acehese do? Satu negara? Don’t tickle my toes!

Maybe we shd all study at NUS or one or the UK universities to sort out facts from illusion. I don’t know how to bluff. I only speak the truth. My religion lah.

You want more history (verifiable history) I can also supply for post independent Malaya and also during the Ming Dynasty period?

In the video, it mention Singapore was a duty-free Shopping Center. After watching this video, this is my view: Many businessmen came to sell their goods to Ang Mohs, and Ang Mohs also import their home products in for their needs. Well-educated immigrants from China, India saw a good opportunity to sell their product here to Ang Mohs. Look at Boat Quay in the video, so many boatswith goods and go-downs, all the way to Clark Quay, Robertson Quay, can compare to modern-day PSA. I think also many around Asia also came and buy goods, because duty-free. So the success back then was it’s geographic location, Ang Mohs’ demand and Duty-Free. Not the cheapest to shop in Singapore now, because got 7% GST. Remove GST and get back to our roots of Duty-free shopping. Yea…

24) Ta’malu

perhaps you need to spend more time reading history… i wonder where you learnt it. there were malay settlements in Singapore for several centuries before arrival of raffles. they had their own cultures and styles. they are the natives of Singapore without doubt. over time since arrival of raffles there were also malays and indonesians migrating to singapore but that was few in numbers.

@21
“Yes i can count my blessings. But i am very greedy. Not only do i want Singapore to have the Best Airline, Airport, Transport System, etc as you have listed out, i also want the bestest government in the world to be the best at other things.

I would also like Singapore to have the Most Accountable Government, The Most Transparent Government, The Government with the best checks and balances, The Country with one of the lowest GINI coefficients along with one of the highest standards of living, The Most Free Press, The Country with the best Human Rights record, etc. These are just a few things at the top of my head, i’m sure other commentators can give more.”

Wow, heaps said here. But some of those accolades have been achieved. eg.
Best Minister Reason http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/11/property-tax-hike-minister-luis-reason/.
Best Minister Explanation http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/11/flood-was-a-freak-event-says-minister/
Best Minister For Public Housing Demand http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/09/hdb-flats-affordability-will-always-be-there-says-mah/
And not to mention our perennial favorite, Best Minister for Quotes http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/08/be-faster-better-cheaper-says-lim-swee-say/.

However some of the things are not pratical, eg Best Human Rights record. We have Prof Walter Woon, wise as he is, with this quote “Human rights has become a ‘religion’ that breeds devotees who border on the fanatic.” http://www.yawningbread.org/arch_2008/yax-890.htm

Lastly inanho, i hate to break it to you, but our bestest law minister said that we are not a country. So we will always be a bestest city hoping to achieve more bestest accolades. And that among those other things that you are wishing to achieve within our city, I do know of someone who would describe it as a highfalutin idea. It exist as an aspiration.

But it is quite true, “For example, the Intel 8008 microprocessor allowed the home computer revolution to take off. I could go on and on about it’s accolades. The question is, would you buy one as your CPU today?”

Similarly, there should not be the case where we credit past achievements to future success. It should be relatively irrelevant what Singapore used to be except for the purpose of appreciating Her historical value. Here and now should be the primary standard to gauge the performance. So please assess and see how well it is performing at the moment.

Dear commentor, don’t be distract by the word “Fishing Villiage” maybe Sang Nila Utama times, yes is a fishing Villiage, LKY use this words to propaganda it.
Singapore geograhic location was nutrally being build in a cross-road juction. Most of the ideas like Materialism can be bought by money. Only ideas , who design it? Seattler who come and go bring in thier cutlure to build this land. I can said is a only a smart person just modify it.

26) singaporian on December 1st, 2009 6.57 pm -

Mana lu berasal (where did u originate)? JawaB (Answer)! Jangan malu-malu (don’t be shy).
Java? Sulewesi? Sumetera? etc.,

If you say you’re the Orang Laut then I have nothing to say. YOU ARE THEN THE RED INDIANS OF SINGAPORE.

If you were a Malaysian or an ex- you would know all the temberang (bull shit) and tembak sini, tembak sana. Short of the Orang Asli, they have MIGRATED to Malaya since the Japanese Occupation. In fact the Japanese brought 1000s upon 1000s of Javanese to Malaya then. Since UMNO took over a ‘ Malaysian Malay’ is defined as one who is (1) a Muslim (2) speak Malay and (3) embrace the Malay culture. Not the UNIVERSAL indiginous & aboriginal meaning mind you. Therefore all Muslim Indonesians will qualify, right? Not the Christian Filipinos and Christian Indonesians who are “Malay” generically.

Marhartia himself, his father hailed from Kerala, India. All Malaysian Malays are pendatang (immigrants) like Singapore’s.

Read the honorable & upright Syed Imran, former Press Secretary to Minister in PM’s Department, Ampang, Selangor, Malaysia (Do you understand Malay?)

Antara pendatang dan penumpang -
http://kudaranggi.blogspot.com/2008_09_01_archive.html

Malaysia’s economy at the second bottom rung and stagnated for last 10 years.

http://www.malaysia-today.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=28797:malaysias-economy-at-the-second-bottom-rung&catid=19:newscommentaries&Itemid=100131

Kekuatan Melayu

With reference to the whole ‘fishing village’ thing, if I remember correctly, prior to colonisation, this island suffered from a general lack of contiguous significance – insofar as it tended to vacillate wildly between “chilled out fishing village” and “exciting new port”. The occasion for transition would typically be some prince throwing a fit and razing it to the ground, or people would just forget about whatever settlement happened to be there at the time.

So, in that sense, we don’t have a pre-colonial history. We have a series of abortively disconnected pre-colonial histories.

Yes Singapore was a fishing village before PAP. In fact, history has it that the PAP leader discovered an animal that has the head of a lion and had the body of a mermaid. That is why we have the Merlion of today. With the blessings of the Merlion, Singapore was best in everything until lightning took away their powers during a storm. To reciprocate the kindness of China who loan use two Pandas, our leader is comptemplating lending China two of our merlions.

I am sure if I say this very seriously, some people will actually believe it.

it was not a coincidence that the british royal family chose singapore to plant their seeds. it is for many strategic purposes. as you all will soon witness as events unravel in the future.

Everybody knows Singapore was one of the most developed cities in the region since the late 1800s. I don’t think anyone has ever claimed that

“Singapore was just a “fishing village” before independence and the arrival of the People’s Action Party.”

Interesting video though.

Venice, a city state, lost its statehood; in a nutshell because of the the government.

Thank you PAP for 44 good years. We can see though you’re expensive, Singapore, this tiny and resourceless island, is still among the tops in the WORLD & well-respected worldwide.

International accocolades & actions speak . .

Only those with ‘village people’ mentality beleive that we were a fishing village then.
Can a fisherman’s son be sent to Cambridge to study law?—-on a fisherman’s income?
These village people probably beleive that we are in a Golden period now.
Sadly—one is born every minute.

Singapore was never a truly “poor” country when compared to its peers.

its gdp per capita even in 1965 -1980 was fluctuating around 30-40th spot in the world. this is out of 100-200 countries!

even during independence in 1065, singapore was around the same level as portugal and hong kong in terms of gdp per capita.

Kindly, google Dr Albert Wensimius and you will find who is the real/true architect of modern Singapore.
 
Coincidently, after Dr Wensimius’ death in 1996, thats when the rot in our government began.
 
 

Trying to be like the Wayang Party ToC?
PM never said or even implied that S’pore was a fishing village before PAP came. You may think he said it or implied it, but objectively he didn’t.
I know WP has more hits (a lot, lot more so much so that KJ gives TR exclusive), but there is a lot more there than misrepresenting the facts.  So take the gd bits so that people like me will again make ToC the default choice for local stuff.
Tip: go easy on hanging issue. I am a non-hanger but I don’t waste my time trying to persuade S’poreans that cap punishment is morally wrong.
 
 

Incredulous,
Pls also give credit to the  S’poreans that have been largely air-brushed out of history: Goh Keng Swee, Hon Siew Sin, Lim Kim San, Ngiam Tong Dow, Pillay and Sim Kee Boon. I hope you are not one of those “Ang Moh tua kee”
And the rot started when Mr “Peanuts” became PM.

Singapore has changed so much for the “better” over the last ten years…

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/group.php?gid=306843482947&ref=search&sid=718059914.1745228342..1