the govt is just trying to make everyone believe that there’s no such thing as a property bubble and that plunging of property prices is impossible. with that effect, they manage to artificially keep property prices high and rising.

It’s quite simple to prove that HDB’s illustration of affordability is misleading.

On their website, they claim that a household income of $6500 can “afford” their recently launched 5-room flats priced at $585,000 (which is $2108 monthly installments for 30 yrs). This hypothetical couple will have $1495 in their CPF ordinary account contribution every month, meaning that they have to fork out an extra $613 in cash every month to “afford” this hdb flat.

Another claim – household income of $6000 can “afford” their 4-room flats priced at $440,000 (which is $1585 monthly installments for 30 yrs) This hypothetical couple will have $1380 CPF ordinary contribution every month, meaning a cash top-up of $205 every month.

Assuming our hypothetical couple got married at 30yrs old. By the time their 30yr mortgage is fully paid, they will be 60yrs old, with a big fat zero in their ordinary CPF account, which was meant for retirement!

I have heard some argue that their salary will increase. But how many people can say that for sure these days? Unless you are a civil servant, everyone faces the the same curveballs from life – aged parents needing expensive medical expenses, raising kids, economic downturns and the resultant temporary unemployment. Many people today are already live examples of these unfortunate predicaments.

What happens if you lose your job at age 45, 15 yrs or halfway thru your 30yr mortgage? I imagine that all it takes is just one downturn to convert half of these unsuspecting young occupants today into tomorrow’s taxi drivers. No offense but I think a mortgage that heavy on our pockets should not be taken as “affordable”, not even in the most perversed definition of the word.

I’m about 95% sure I will never buy a HDB flat. I’d rather rent and give up the right to hammer nails into the wall than to have my entire future life burdened by the government.

Purchasing a HDB flat does not seem to have an eventual payoff. My offspring? Yeah right.

The HDB flat for the average Singaporean, is the ball and chain around your ankle..
stops or deters you from uprooting to elsewhere…
Thusly, they will never lower prices – just so you remain toiling here till the bitter end.

3) Ryvyan on December 22nd, 2009 12.45 am I’m about 95% sure I will never buy a HDB flat. I’d rather rent and give up the right to hammer nails into the wall than to have my entire future life burdened by the government.

That’s precisely what the ole man’s wish that you people are just slaves to him and using this system, tell me how do you expect to retire, cos there’s never a chance you can have. You just have to work until you go straight to your grave, btw pls don’t fall sick or ill, cos its gonna worst and this can easily wipe out your entire medisafe to zero making you to foot out more cash to them.

I think HDB should consider to build more 1 and 2 Room flats in future for those who cannot afford to own a home or for down-graders who cannot afford to retire.

It seems that the PAP Supreme Commander in Chief and Architect of Singapore, thinks that everything must go up. Everything is affordable and our sovereign funds are only suffering paper losses.

That people are very happy to own expensive HDB flats especially his crown jewel The Pinnacle. I hope he can enbloc all our HDB flats in future and unlock our assets.

I hope he will soon reveal the rosy blueprint of Singapore’s next 50 years under PAP Master Plan to his beloved Son and fellow comrades.

Rising prices are gd if one willing to stay overseas or downgrade.

BTW MM is too modest http://atans1.wordpress.com/2009/12/15/property-prices-mm-lee-is-too-modest/

All pre-election propaganda by ST and MIW.

High HDB price is bad, very bad.
Is good for people who want to move out of SG, sell it and move to a place where housing is cheap. So to stop that the government have to hold back CPF after 55 yrs. so that you can no longer have that dream.

aiyoyo

hdb price so high, tak boleh tahun leh!

economy slow, no massive recovery expected soon,

where to find $ to feed the 4-walls?

look back into 80s, how much does 1 hdb flat cost (example 3room)?

now, how much 1 3room flat cost? (~$250k)

aiyoyo

HDB prices are high to ensure that the govt can sell land expensively to cover their funding gap.

The ministers are all over priced.

i’m buying a tent… before they start making it mandatory to pay for COE for mobile shelters…

Remember to pitch your tent in fron the parliament, nice beautiful grass.

Nothing wrong with renting a place to stay in. At least you are not tied down by a huge loan.

Last I heard, that’s illegal assembly even though there’s only me myself and moi.

The Old man is dreaming……those days are gone….

Like how it is stated, the price of a HDB flat has only been rising, unceremoniously since GCT took over….the property bubble started from 1992…all the way till 1996…even then it was held…till all hell broke lose in 1997 to 2001.

Then it started again, this time with Foriegn money pouring in…FT policy.
Now it is back up again.

Good article Leong.

This was not the case back then, while Lee was in Power…nowadays income is not catching up with prices. I believe the PAP, has already written off like 30% of the population to live in rental flats. More rental flats will be made available.
If they break out of the vicious cycle, then its good for them.

The prices are artificial, what economic growth. It has to come down…the bigger it is the harder it falls. A good lesson is Dubai.

I rebutt old mud lee comments

1. Economy was negative for last 2 years – how come prices still soaring

i rebutt his old mud fool’s comments with the following:

1. economy in dire straits 2 years but hdb prices soar.. ironically temasek/gic lost billions. are we subsidising their losses? and if prices in tandem with economy, it should come down?

2. salary of most workers stagnant for last few years – cheaper faster better, with foreigners coming to compete on the same jobs.

3. high unemployment from 3% to 6% and increasing.

4. how can HDB be making a loss when the flats went up 200% to 400% ie AMK Peak 139sqm selling almost at $1.2M (still selling after 2 years launch)

5. Electricity/ERP/Transport/Medical all sky-rocketed.

6. We dont have pension and multi million dollar jobs like them. Our rice bowl as good as plastic, we compete heavily with foreigners for the same bowl of rice, we may be replaced when we are in 40s, how can we service a 30 years loan? We dont have an iron rice bowl and mutiple directorships like our ministers and mps to leverage on.

My friends wake up before our votes dont mean anything anymore.

Him and his team has become complacents, they know we are unhappy. so they import millions of new citizens and foreigners into the country to ensure they will still be in power and hanging to power and millions.

Rising prices is just one part of the equation of expensive housing in Singapore.
The constant and gradual reduction in the floor space for each category of flats with each new batch of flats release is another thing one has to contend with.

Imagine, your grandparents used to buy 5 room flats that have an average floor area of 125 sq meters. Now, a five room flat is only 105-111 sq meters. Imagine, what a five room flat is gonna be like when our kids are of the age to set up their own home?

Your grandparents time, a 100 sq meter flat is considered 4A.

So, similar floor area of a 4A is not called a 5 room. Your taxes are higher. Your subsidies for utilities are lower. Your conservancy is higher cos it is now a 5 room flat!

Affordable? My foot!

Talk so much no use, vote the pap out

My dear Sze Hian, I really salute you in having the determination and perseverance to take hdb to task and speak-up for the working class Singaporeans in such a meticulous and mindful way but, my main worry is that will you end-up like the million-dollar despicable rl and vb who are first, strong critics of the ruling party and finally, being “brought-over”, end-up its cronies drawing exorbitant-salary and living in luxury!!!

What a bunch of ingrates and treacheries? May “GOD” punish them in the name of justice and equality!!! KARMA and retribution will prevail over darkness!!!

Keep it up, Sze Hian, thank-you for a job well done!! Cheers!

A Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all of you!!

Seriously, the remaining Singaporeans in Singapore should all vote against PAP .but than again in our midst are the civil servants who fear the collapse of the PAP gov would cost them their rice bowl

2) fievel on December 22nd, 2009 12.23 am

Another claim – household income of $6000 can “afford” their 4-room flats priced at $440,000 (which is $1585 monthly installments for 30 yrs) This hypothetical couple will have $1380 CPF ordinary contribution every month, meaning a cash top-up of $205 every month. Assuming our hypothetical couple got married at 30yrs old. By the time their 30yr mortgage is fully paid, they will be 60yrs old, with a big fat zero in their ordinary CPF account, which was meant for retirement!

$6000-$1600=$4400, after spending $3000 every month you can still save $1400 every month for your retirement.

5) tiredsingaporean on December 22nd, 2009 2.32 am
>>>> That’s precisely what the ole man’s wish that you people are just slaves to him and using this system, tell me how do you expect to retire, cos there’s never a chance you can have. You just have to work until you go straight to your grave, btw pls don’t fall sick or ill, cos its gonna worst and this can easily wipe out your entire medisafe to zero making you to foot out more cash to them.

-

Actually, NO. Being a slave means buying a HDB flat and paying through your nose to finance it. If I rent, I can be sensible about my cashflow and not rent beyond my means, since new “affordable” HDB flats are located in such ulu places anyway. If I lose my job, I can easily downsize to a smaller/cheaper one with a few months’ notice (depending on tenancy contract)

This would mean:
- I would never have to dip into my CPF to pay off the government;
- I could choose to uproot and seek better opportunities any time I want;
- should I live to see retirement, I would still have money in my CPF which has not been used to pay off huge loan.

I hear the compound interest in CPF is higher than it is in banks, is it true?

And you can’t dip into Medisave unnecessarily…? If the government decides to make changes to healthcare at their own discretion resulting in my fellow Singaporeans and I being charged with even ridiculous bills, remember that I won’t even have a HDB flat loan to worry about and I can say goodbye to this godforsaken place.

if one day something happen to us, that is like the current usa crisis.

then price of house may drop to very low.

then we start from zero all over again.

yes it is painful to start again but i think it is less painful then current price of getting even and even expensive in the future.

but are we able to restart again from zero again?

anyone has any idea what is the percentage of re-building up singapore from zero?

23) Chinese Nationlist on December 22nd, 2009 11.02 am
>>>> Seriously, the remaining Singaporeans in Singapore should all vote against PAP .but than again in our midst are the civil servants who fear the collapse of the PAP gov would cost them their rice bowl

Not all civil servants are this dumb. Not all ‘remaining’ Singaporeans are this clever.

26) DSFSFD

I don’t think it is sensible to ’start from the beginning’. You forget there are homeowners right now.

Wah pingpongball,

you think $1400 is all savings meh? people no need to eat one hor.

hello Zefly (aka Joshua Chiang),

i mentioned “after spending $3000 every month one can still save $1400 every month for their retirement” … $3000 / month is not enough?

pingpongball,

do you have parents? do they need monthly contributions from you in retirement?
do you have children? do you know how much one would cost?
if you are both forced to be working because of your mortgage, and you have children, would you need a maid? If you use child-care or parents for baby-sitting instead, would you need a car? (esp if you cannot afford to live near your parents)
Do you pay property tax? Do you pay income tax?

Is $3000 enough for all the above in Singapore?
Is putting aside $1400 a month enough for both you and your wife’s retirement?

Even if you made some contorted calculations and squeezed the budget in, you are living on the edge at the most productive stage of your life. You are going to be a huge risk financially come another 10 to 20yrs and your mortgage has still got 20 to 10 yrs to run.

These days, I hear of friends/cousins all over who are “proud new owners” of an expensive resale flat, but achieving that only by borrowing money from their parents. Some take on home-renovation loans etc… I think the way most are going, is sheer financial planning madness.

Fievel

Of course enough. Dun have kids lor. And make sure you never get retrenched.

Hi Pingpong.

$3K is enough, but one has to live frugally if one has 2 kids. The utilities , misc expenses every month already eat up a third of the 3K.

Don’t forget the $3K also includes working expenses for both working parents.

The problem is the use if the household income. If both person works, who is gonna look after the kids especially during the primary school years ?

What if one of the 2 lose their jobs? Why make citizens pay so much to slog all their life? To whose benefit is that?

Renting is not an option because you cannot use your CPF to rent (for those who are not self-employed). It takes great faith to believe in 30 years time, there will be money left to pay the contributors.

Let me tell you another tale of the HDB story.

I have an army friend who never votes for PAP in his life… alway Opposition.

and when he was getting married and applying for flats, many of friends wonder if he was able to get his HDB flat unit. You know lah, fear mongering is number subject when getting your first HDB unit.

SO long story short, this friend got his unit liao ..in less than 3 tries. He is going to stay in Seng Kang very soon. I wish him the best.

And he tells me that once he moves to SengKang, his going to make sure his vote does not change. So AMK GRC has a new opposition voter. Gd luck PM! :)

This hypothetical couple will have $1380 CPF ordinary contribution every month, meaning a cash top-up of $205 every month. Assuming our hypothetical couple got married at 30yrs old.
===========================

This couple, if one of them lose their job for 6 months, they will have to top up cash of $895 during the 6 months. Assuming both get $3k each, there will be only $1505 every month during those 6 months.

That is where GE money James comes in, then the casinoes, and finally loan sharks. Only a matter of time before they become part of some statistics, especially if the unemployed period becomes longer.

The housing demand has changed, young couple (and maybe most singaporeans ) would prefer condo or private housing if we can afford.

why sell expensive HDB, and ,why not try to built affordable private house.

Can HDB change the mindset and adjust to the real demand.

I have reasoned out with my parents, brothers and sisters, in-laws, friends and neighbours that we should not vote PAP after what they have done to Singapore citizens. Most of them concur eventually. I think all of us should do the same, do our part…

There’s a part for Everyone!
In this land where we… erm… sorta belong!

have you guys seen the conditions of these HDB? Just look at the photos supplementing the sales by most property sellers, they are in such a pathetic states!

Worst are the private homes (condos and landed), the sellers may asked for $1 million plus but just look at their living condition based on the kind of tables, frameless beds, plastic chairs, ikea stuff and other cheap fittings and furnitures. They are living in such a sad conditions and lifestyles, living from day to day just to pay mortgages. Mortgage-slave are plenty here. Paying past a million for a home and yet, cannot affor clothes dryers! Hang their clothes like a foreign workers dormitory. One can be so delusional for thinking that having a non-HDB address will make them “better” and improved their social standing. Sad state of mentality!

It is so true, one is asset rich but cash poor!

Statistics and numbers may not be easily comprehended and digestable by the layman citizens.

This is where Mr Leong comes in with high value. I discovered a lot of other things ‘in fine print’ after reading his book on sale now. super value!

I am learning each day about numbers. for instance:

1. lets use a hypothetical scenario. last year foreign sushi students increased by record numbers. this month it went down by 1 %. Ah Meng learnt only that the foreign sushi student numbers went down. But he may not know that it is still a record high compared to 1 year ago or earlier.

2. kangor Inc lost 100 million last year. This year it lost 50 million. Ah Meng learnt that Kangor grew by 100%. His full name is Ah Meng Oblivion.

HDB prices are getting ridiculously high.
20 years ago I got my new 4 room flat at Pasir Ris.
Our household income was about $5K.
We did not have any grant then and we managed to clear the loan by the 8th year.
My CPF is really my retirement savings now.

Fast forward to today.
How many of the young couples can “truly” afford HDB without sacrificing on other needs and wants. Must they scrimp on everything else in order to have a roof over their heads?
My heart really goes out to them. (My kids included)

“So the HDB must have made a lot of money instead of the $2 billion deficit for the last year!”

the question is how did the Deficit come about?

Which citizen in singapore knows?

Or should it ask, which citizen wants to know?

With regard to arrears on Service and Conservancy Charges (S & CC), if you missed the month’s payment of $50, the Town Council would sent a mailer threatening legal action (while inviting the debtor to call ther friendly officers to work out a repayment plan). In the same mailer, they slap a penalty of $45 which effectively doubles the arrears. It is a debt spiral. Uniquely Singapore!

37) Squeezed on December 22nd, 2009 12.25 pm

“I have reasoned out with my parents, brothers and sisters, in-laws, friends and neighbours that we should not vote PAP after what they have done to Singapore citizens. Most of them concur eventually. I think all of us should do the same, do our part… ”

I have also tried to engage discussion with my friends about the danger of giving PAP absolute power. The good thing is most of them agree that we need more transparency and accountability from the PAP. The sad thing is when I ask them would they then vote for the opposition, most of them are non committal and avoid the question.

I think such behaviour is quite common among most Singaporeans. Why? I am really clueless.

“41) Let’s Do It on December 22nd, 2009 12.48 pm
HDB prices are getting ridiculously high.
20 years ago I got my new 4 room flat at Pasir Ris.
Our household income was about $5K.”

my friend, the truth is many singaporeans though live in HDB, eg about 85% of them, quite many also own private properties concurrently. While many are struggling to keep their jobs and earn enough to save for min sum and retirement etc, many are earning golden peanuts too.

These travel for work or business a lot. They treat sg like a hotel. Too small, too crowded , too noisy for full relaxation. They have tons of money. Their income come easier than many. They want relax, they go expensive resorts and villas. Breakfast in singapore, lunch in Australia. They enjoy all the scenery they want. Retirement is not an issue for them. Cpf being capped at about $4500 amonth which means about $630 contribution a month , i wonder are they affected by min sum and CPF being withheld until retirement? I wonder is their handphone bills more than their CPF?

my point is, many of this type of singaporeans may not be affected b CPF, HDB and risen and rising cost of living.

they think about how to earn more than the neighbor singaporean, how to network, how to cut cost on labor, how to get cheaper raw materials, how to get lobang, where to enjoy next, what car to buy next , which penthouse to buy next, how much shares to buy and sell today .

I think as long as they find here safer and more modern with amenities, they would be not be bothered to question other thingies.

would these be bothered to question about HDB pricing?

Pinkie,

the deficit is creative intepretation of figures.

For eg, if it cost me two dollars to make a plate of chicken rice, and I sell it at five dollars, I actually profit $3 per plate.

But then one day I declare I give discount! I sell at $4! One dollar less than the usual $5!

So while I still profit $2 per plate, now I say, because of the discount, I actually lost $1 per plate leh!

liddat lor.

My friend suddenly became very rich.
He used to write for people.
Then he somehow got a job that pays him handsomely beyond his wildest dreams.
prolly top 3 percent for his age.
He don’t give a hoot.

@24) pingpongball on December 22nd, 2009 11.18 am

>> $6000-$1600=$4400, after spending $3000 every month you can still save $1400 every month for your retirement.

Need to divide that by 2, assuming $6000 is combined income of a couple… ie, each can only save $700…

Also not too sure whether each person only need to spend around $1500, could be more..

Need to consider all these expenses (assuming no children, and no elderly parents to take care off):-

- Transport
- Meals
- Groceries
- Town council charges
- utilities bills
- income tax
- property tax
- TV license
- clothings
- Mobile phone bills, internet broadband bills
- Medical bills

46) Zefly (aka Joshua Chiang) on December 22nd, 2009 1.11 pm

I think you are wrong about the deficit….

Let me use your analogy as base. (assumption: 1 chicken to each plate of chicken rice for easy illustration)
I sell chicken rice @ $3. I get my chickens from my brother whose cost of producing a chicken is $1. However, on the account sheet, I put it than I bought each chicken from my brother @ $4. So, I am losing $1 per chicken rice sold IN THEORY. However, in reality, I am actually earning $2 per plate.

I = HDB
my brother = SLA
we are one family!

@34) ErniesUrn on December 22nd, 2009 12.08 pm

I too have never voted pap, ever since I was able to vote.. I was staying in chinatown then, and I have no problem getting a hdb in sengkang, and I voted for the WP team (AMK GRC) in 2006..

So all those who are worried, let me say that there are 33% (ie, out of all those who are able to vote) who voted opposition in 2006, and as far as I know, none has been locked up, sacked, etc…

Unfortunately, however high the prices of BTOs are, there are many singaporeans who would queue for it. Even if its technically, not affordable. Why? because in 5 years time, when they can sell, its even higher.

It is a bubble most certainly. Question is has it burst or it can get even bigger.

According to our Govt, it looks to get bigger. Don forget the higher the price of the property, the higher the stamp duties since its the higher of Market price or resale value… which makes them very very very very very very happy.

If a person that is of this age, present day 2009 buys a 3 rm HDB flat for 200k, u know, 3rm nowadays r 350k for resale (queentown and amk). And he must less than than 3k.

Assuming he (and his partner) earns 2.5k and contribute 500 to cpf and his house needs to pay off 650 a month for 25-30 years. All his savings goes into HDB.

When he and his wife retired and could find no job, they will be left with 0 cpf! and no saving becos they have no job too.

If so, why price 3rm and tax the limit of the poor?

Bastardly greedy gov lol

Btw, that dec 3rm flat for queentown is 280k

“because in 5 years time, when they can sell, its even higher. ”

b-b-but after they sell where will they stay? And… considering every other property prices also will be higher… you will still have to top up if you want a flat that’s bigger than the one you are selling… unless it’s to move to batam or jb.

Here’s a simple rationale.

Say ..we all pay taxes ..and the taxes goes into the Ministry of National Development headed by Mah Bow Tan (Tampines GRC). THese taxes are used to buying material and construction of our HDB flats.

So why is our price of HDB flats pegged to market prices?! Should we buy our flats at the value of construction cost?!

This is the reason why citizens have been harping over and over again. OPEN THE BOOKS and let us see!!

Maybe Mah Bow Tan is inviting us all to kick his butt out of Tampines GRC.

The bubble won’t be bursting before the election thats for sure. But the incumbent govt will surely prefer the prices to come down soon after election because otherwise they will have a bigger bubble to juggle in another 4 yrs when another election comes.

I FORCAST election in 2010 and to H.D.B. why keep building expensive flat when they cannot even solve the lift problems in Eunos and Clementi Ave 5 !

HDB flats are built using tax payer’s money – what “cost” is it to the govt? Why are tax payer’s money being used to penalise tax payers again? The govt is merely a happy middleman that adds value only to themselves.

55) Fievel on December 22nd, 2009 3.29 pm
“The bubble won’t be bursting before the election thats for sure. But the incumbent govt will surely prefer the prices to come down soon after election because otherwise they will have a bigger bubble to juggle in another 4 yrs when another election comes. ”

but can they change the wait duration to say 6 / 7/ 8 / 9 /10 years?

who knows the answer?

they can have cooling off. what else is it they can have also, if any?
i wonder.

With due respect to all HDB owners.

Maybe I am too sensitive, I feel that I was look down by some people when they know that I stay in HDB flats.

No matter how expensive HDB flat is, people who are staying or apply for will still want to upgrade to private if they earn more money.

That is why I said HDB need to change, eg. mindset, image, type of house, regulation, policy on older housing estate. But just make sure that low income earner can afford basic housing.

Very very sure, Currently HDB selling price is to KIDNAP majority of the young man for the next 30years, this is what our pay and pay government want to control your future. and only easy for them to rule the whatever policy they want

What i really like to know is when will we ever know all the answers asked regarding HDB pricing?

Would a change lead to anything?
Even if WP win 10 more seats, would they give us all the answers we asked for?
I not sure. u sure meh? who sure?

I imagine that i would say this to you readers lamenting about HDB pricing, if I am rich.

“As I live in a private estate, HDB get more expensive is good, i can profit more from this investment. Its like stock market for me. So, it really puzzles me why you all complain. Get back to work!”

I say HDB should limit its participation in the market, and leave most of it to private developers, just like any first world country. But there should be no cartel – companies fight to give the best housing at the lowest prices. HDB limits itself to a small quota of public flats for those who really need cheap housing, and gives them exactly that.

“Even if WP win 10 more seats, would they give us all the answers we asked for?
I not sure. u sure meh? who sure?”

try 20 lah. or 30 or maybe 40 lah. not sure & no guarantee lah. maybe they will give super good surprising answers. u sure meh ? who sure ?

but the current team has already given their answer to you already lah.

Factoring in the total bank interests for all their usually bragged about so-called affordable yet non congruently expensive HDB flats over the loan period , property tax , monthly conservancy charges , property taxes and other miscellany whim and fancy adjustments etc etc woulld certainly tally up to be a very substantially huge amount which will eventually transmogrify : change as if by magic to nought / zero investment at the end of the 99 years leasehold period ( assuming all can live to 99 years ) – leaving most of us penniless and without anything in possession including zero $$$$$ or hard core property to pass to posterity – remember all so called HDB owners are only tenants for the 99 years period or whatever length of period of occupancy.

Even our beloved freehold condominiums are not truly FREEHOLD when a consensual 80 – 90 of owners can enforce an enbloc sale to mercilessly evict you – just like the si ho ree : COE can inevitably strip us of our car ownership rights at end of the 10 years period – uniquely stinkapore lah …….

You people like to “Kau Peh, Kau Boo” for anything that changes. Noodles last time 20 cents and now $4 (aircon included). But still need to eat wat! Singapore last time 3rd world country, now want to call ourselves Developing Country also cannot – because the rest of the World objected. You enjoying Developed Country amenities but want to pay 3rd world price… Maybe go fly kite better… hmmmmm kite last time 20 cents… Now also $4 incidentally.

I took Eonomics lah.

(1) Check out the HDB resale market for the market price. For what you buy direct from the HDB will definitely be much lower.
(2) Check say, HK & Tokyo, both developed cities. State built housing is tiny and cost much more than Singapore. strange isn’t it when both have land to expand – HK (New Territories (Chinese) & Tokyo (Honshu).
(3) Check out the inflated IMPORTED raw materials prices eg sand, granite (used to come from Indonesia).
(4) Check out the time – 60s, we lived in a 2-room flat at Tanglin Halt, Queenstown. It cost $7000 only. Toady. We are still under the PAP. PAP have no control over the international prices of commodities & labour (what more, stupid cows says cheap labour is bad). Head & tail you want to win.
(5)Check out non-HDB prices. Recently launched e.g. Alexis, Alexander Rd. Manily studio flats. ALL snapped up within 2 days of launch @ $1350 psk.
(6) So since building flats at HDB prices is profiteering then all developers including you shd now jump in to make a quick buck. Don’t need to cahrge Alexis’ prices, just $50k more than HDB. I think before you even start you’ll be declared a bankrupt.

Sad. To the fools. Times have changed lah. By world standard, HDB prices are are reasonably priced. For the landscape, quality finishing, etc …… Oh you mean subsidise.

Then where is Santa Claus to come from? tax people like in Australia, higher GST like in Europe, etc.

Refelct lah BoDoh.

68) Leong Chin Teck on December 22nd, 2009 7.25 pm

you full of shit. don’t talk resale lah as demand more than supply, of course prices up, up, up lah.

demand will always chase supply (got supply or not ?) badly lah, if you know what i mean since you know economics.and this will get filtered into higher resale value lah.

not supply in jungle area with no facilities lah. even new flats not cheap leh and the new payment mode is also no fun leh.

don’t talk about private toys (housing) for the rich people lah. they are a different categories altogether lah. this play stuff if not for someone who has small mouths but big appetite lah.

what IMPORTED raw materials prices eg sand, granite (used to come from Indonesia lah. a lot of people working in construction industry and a lot cost surveyors leh. u talk like shit leh. open book can or not, have detailed cost breakdown, can or not.

hk, no gst and lower corporate tax leh. they have to rely strictly on private means lah. anyway, hk is not a good example. they are like sardine can. slowly we will be like them sardine can.

japan big country and you talk only tokyo, at least people can go further out from tokyo leh and their pay also high leh. japan lower consumption leh. japan has natural disasters leh and you know how much they have to spend.

even for per capital infrastructure development to connect the big country as compared to our little red dot, we are nothing lah.

“Sad. To the fools. Times have changed lah. By world standard, HDB prices are are reasonably priced. For the landscape, quality finishing, etc …… Oh you mean subsidise.”

times have changed lah. but some shit like you still has not changed. by world standard (not third world dictatorial standard), shit like you would have been kicked out long ago.

Sad that these two guys:
66) kiasu n kiasi
68) Leong Chin Teck
are unable to see through that essence of the problem is the government don’t want to come clean with their account and transparency. Making people to stretch out their budget with expensive flat and minimum sum in CPF so that they can make people work hard for the next 30 years and don’t complain government too much.

66) kiasu n kiasi on December 22nd, 2009 6.44 pm
…You enjoying Developed Country amenities but want to pay 3rd world price… Maybe go fly kite better…

If we “enjoying Developed Country amenities”, how come still got ppl like you around? Developed Body but 3rd world brain, no wonder we should be paying 3rd world price.

69) 3rdKlassCitizam -

“are unable to see through that essence of the problem is the government don’t want to come clean ”

I think your head is 3rd class. Come give TR readers and yourself some credibility. Readers can see through half-truth these days with the internet and INTERNATIONAL accolades bestowed upon this government for good governance. That’s why if you were at the civil service clubs you would see 1000s of top civil servants annually from the 3rd world sent by their governments to learn as you say to be “non transparent, corrupt” from us ???????? How stupid!
If the PAP ranks itself then you can complain but the WORLD ranks our government as TOP CLASS, be it in transparency, corruption free, etc.

Are you OK. Do u need to report to IMH?

Here the PM doesn’t open a company with his friend and charge $500 million commission for a submarine deal. And fearing a leak from a foreigner. Bang! Here no fighter jet engine has been quietly sold, . . . . .

You are (that’s if you aren’t a anti-Singapore foreigner dressed up as us) darn blessed to be in Singapore under the PAP then anyone of the rest of the 11 ASEAN countries.

Think lah.

71) Leong Chin Teck
Here the PM doesn’t open a company with his friend and charge $500 million commission for a submarine deal. And fearing a leak from a foreigner. Bang! Here no fighter jet engine has been quietly sold, . . . . .

But here we have “It has happen, what to do” Minister. Also have regret forcing bilingual, regret stop at 2. NKF suck money is “peanuts”. Temesak lose money is just a small bump along the road. And the list goes on……

//Leong Chin Teck

With 3 room prices, I can buy a landed property in England.

when it come to hdb land which is FREE
they marketed as states lands subject to locations valued
when leekuanyew’s oxley rise land is concerned..
its leekuanyew’s PRIVATE property….
free to him includin closing off BOTH ends of the roads
which is designated within the prime land directives in orchard road
same as leekuanyew’s great grandfather burial grounds in sime darby road
other peoples’ burial grounds
can exhumed without a 2nd glance..when leekuanyew is concerned his ahkong land is holy..
UNTOUCHABLE!!!

Good article. Thanks for taking the effort to inform us.

Can never trust the local media

When HDB announce 2 Billion LOST, I had written to plead for Mr. Ngiam Tong Dow to say something.

Now, with the recent “positive outlook” of HDB prices, please….. please….. please….. Mr Ngiam, please say something.

I still believe there are many good man with good heart around. Please do not tarnish this very fundamental believe.

//Leong Chin Teck/

/Sad. To the fools. Times have changed lah. By world standard, HDB prices are are reasonably priced. For the landscape, quality finishing, etc …… Oh you mean subsidise.

by which world standard. Have you been to China? or Taiwan?

//fievel

The sickening thing is if these new blocks of flats crashed in prices, it only benefit the FTs because they are the only ones with the cash at that time.

Japan build and build during the recession times and most of those buildings are white elephants as the Japanese didn’t know how to run in at a profit.

Eventually, they were sold to Americans at a fraction of their cost.

Sad.

“INTERNATIONAL accolades bestowed upon this government for good governance.”

ya lor, at the expense of our low rated media freedom lo and somemore what freedom lor.

“1000s of top civil servants annually from the 3rd world sent by their governments”

from 3rd world hor ? we are beginning to see some pattern hor.

“WORLD ranks our government as TOP CLASS, be it in transparency, corruption free, etc.”

from third world or from 1st world ? if from 1st world, would they want to model their system (especially political) with ours. would their people even gladly allow them to do it. think deconstructionism, and you may not want to jump too fast on such praise words like transparency & corruption free, etc. too quickly.

can Transparency have numerous aspects?
for example, can it be
. transparency in Public policies?
. transparency in HDB pricing?
. transparency in HDB deficit reasons?
. and so on so forth….

i dunno leh. u know better meh?

“Here the XX doesn’t open a company with his friend and charge $500 million commission for a submarine deal.”

it would be fun & interesting for them to declare their overall personal net worth, or close related family members. 1st world standard & transparency lah. public service lah. can or not ?

“Singapore under the XXX then anyone of the rest of the 11 ASEAN countries.”

oh, the best of the worst of which some of them have put the word democracy to much laughter and shame.

Higher HDB prices good for Singaporeans. Every citizen can afford to buy HDB. No one will be left out. We will give subsidies to purchase HDB. Good economy, higher HDB prices. BTO HDB flats for class living but come with a price. All PAP’s slogans!!

Easy talk and say by PAP ministers, LKY etc,etc. Yes! all the millionaire ministers and cronies can purchase many units of HDB wihout a blink of an eyelid.

We are talking about the poor folks of S’pore. the young couples, all with little or no CPF to assist them to make the first purchase. And many who had purchased, find it difficult to service the mortgage and even to pay the conservancy charges.

Why don’t the HDB publish a comprehensive lists of people who are in arrears and those whose HDB flats are being re-possessed by the Banks.

PAP to these days, is always painting a rosy picture of life in S’pore. Many of us are
no fools to buy what you say now. Lay your cards on the table and be transparent about all the profits that HDB has been making all these years and why is HDB flats
supposed to be for the poor and average working class escalated to such high price.

Stop all the BULLSHITS about market force. PAP and HDB can regulate the 80 percent public housing movement but they choose not to and let it be a free fall and ultimately HDB reaped great profit from it. Why build BTO at such high price and build it at all? Why HDB don’t build more 3 and 4 rm flats and smaller flats for the poorer citizens? Salary all this years has not increased in tandem to the COL, etc.,
whereas the ministers of PAP are self-paid salary masters! They are never perturbed
by any increases of prices. They are the super rich.

The average salary of S’poreans is nothing to crow about whereas the ministers and civil servants in high position are being paid like ‘hell notes’ to the millions.

Where do we citizens draw a line to say enough is enough with this despotic rule of PAP where every facet of our lives is being curtailed and we are totally stigmatised and confined to a life of PAY AND PAY under the PAP.

In general, every citizens, apart from PAP’s cronies, running dogs and bootlickers, are being squeezed to our last drop of blood.
Do we want Vampires in our midst?

WE HAVE TO DECIDE BY THE NEXT BALLOT to rid the solipsism of the PAP

They seem to be are HDB like a private developer and came out with this ‘market rate subsidy’ to mask the fact that they use public funds. The whole property-price-structure is dependant on HDB prices which forms the base. It’s just like a house of cards. HDB was supposed to provide low cost housing to the citizens. They should decide that if they are still doing this and if not, they should totally stop and allow private developers to command that space to reflect true market forces and allow the bottom layer of property developments to mimick the utility thta a HDB flat provides – no facilties, state land on 99-yr lease etc etc
Being involved and jacking up prices with HDB is a “equity trap” for most buyers who will be just laddened with a pile of increasing debt, generation after generation and a leasehold that will reduce in value over the course of 99 years.
Currently, none of the HDB have seen the end-life and with clever SERS programs, leaseholders get allocated new flats but with another loan (most probably). Is this what it should be? The leaseholder never gets out of debt and never manages to pay off this ‘home’. This topic will then related to the issue of ‘retirement’ -hence you cannot retire because you won’t have any(much) cash left for you to retire on. Some writers have already suggested the problems with ‘downgrading’ by selling your bigger flat to smaller resale one with no liquidity generating benefits (not to mention any renovations you might need).
Citizens must think what this means to them. A lifetime of debt for space in the sky (smaller with each move) or let the market forces take over or hope for HDB to go back to its original mission. Cost + basis not Market – ’subsidy’.
If there is a change – I can only see a non-PAP govt being in place for this to happen – the whole property market will be subject to asset price deflation/reflation mechanism. based on true market demand/supply. The stakes are high. The stakes has increased tremendously for all home owners. Once you are sucked in, there’s really no easy way out here.

// kiasu n kiasi

If the ministers’ pay is adjusted to 1st world countries’ standard, you would see 1st world country wellfare for citizens.

Now, we are paying 3rd world countries ministerial salaries (their pay supposedly bribes) and getting 3rd world countries’ treatment.

@82

Well, last time his wife opened a law wife and made all HDB transaction goes to his wife law firm. After that he created two huge monster companies, you know what, i know what, and made himself the chairman and his son’s wife, the chairman of the other company. Oh his son is current the leader now.

Anyway back to the topic. Let dont compare to tw and hk first, cos we get our raw materials from Indonesia, u know M’sia too? But wait, why M’sia with so much corruption , their condo is still so cheap ar? Oh yes, we got conned even at market rate.

“Stop all the BULLSHITS about market force. PAP and HDB can regulate the 80 percent public housing movement.”

You r spot on my friend. but some shit by a certain name chin teck is still trying to perfect his skill on putting some foggy trance in front of us.

which authority permits land development & building (supply).

which authority permits demand (also from a sizable community of foreigners being allowed here).

Finally and finally, it still voices down to the damn-bloody-cheap-land-price (close to zero $$$) that the G acquire-compulsorily over the years relentlessly and ruthlessly and, now using those acquisitive-state-land through unscrupulous under-hand method to profiteer from gullible-citizens under the guise of building-monopolize-public-housing and, thicken and wealthy the G-coffer for its cronies to lose multi-billion-dollar in defective investments couple with well paid annual million-dollar of salary.

With this type of malpractice and profound distorted natural, how can public housing in Singapore be really affordable to the working class public? Indeed, milk produces/comes from the “CASH-COW” that’s, the general public, my dear!!! This is the easiest and quickest way!!

Is ’swiss standard’ an aspiration or promise?

Don’t need rocket science to know if high HDB price is good for commoner.

Just look at your bank account.

Even though Swiss have only 7.7mil people, 2mil more than us, and have no natural resources compared to Sg (We have a habour and accessible to the Ocean, and have cheap labor and resources from our neighbours), they have comparable cheap housing and welfare.

Their gov do not pay themselves 60B Sing a year and create so many new taxes like us. And their civil servants do not have so many super scale salaries. Indeed, we have a huge class divide in sg that meek of unfairness.

No where alse is our gov better paid than the private section and it is risky to work in the private section.

They are also a neutral country unlike us, and our leaders offend our neighbours every year *yawn*.

I suggest those so call talents in the civil service to go to the private to contribute to sg instead of leeching from sg instead. And give the opportunities to others. Or they really do not have any talent except to talk talk only but no action.

The only thing remotely resembling ’swiss’ standard we have I can think of is the logic of our policies which have as many loopholes as there are holes in a swiss cheese.

I got a question.

is it true that majority accounting trained citizens are interested in how the deficit come about when the prices so much higher than what was already super high?

but that would be baffling as i do not see them asking.

To me, singapore is like a big professonal landlord , selling renting and also marketing property,

If you want to stay , buy house at market rate (Not cheap) and also pay rent, in the form of ERP, GST etc

Not happy, migrate to other place and we can still invite foreign talents to continue renting but of course need to treat them better.

There is a lack of compassion here

71) Leong Chin Teck

You lack of worldly view and lack of street smartness may be hurting you. You maybe overlying on strait times or P65 blog and they having been clouding your mind.

So what is other countries send their official to learn from us? So what if other country’s PM corrupt 500M and try to steal something to hide it.

Our clever government use smart accounting and non-transparency to hide their figures. The flat is selling at sky high price and they claimed they have budget deficit for housing development. They claimed it was subsidy offer to flat owners that leads to the deficit. Then SHOW US THE FIGURES ! Leong Chin Teck I tell you this is hoodwinking the public of the highest order. They did this to stay in power so that you obediently pay off your housing mortgages for the next 30 years and don’t complain too much. WORSE THAN CORRUPTION. THIS IS POWER HUNGRY.

Leong Chin Teck WAKE UP and don’t be deceived.

it appears to me, after so many years, citizens who are so-called educated , many who have travelled a lot to 1st world democracies, don’t seem to want to exercise their right to question. questions like those mentioned here.

the number of readers are so small, i can only say they appear to be the minority.

what change to expect?

“However, he assured young couples that the Government will help them to own their first flats“

there are many meanings to the word help.
what does it really mean?
a bit of help?
some help?
lots of help?

this is qualitative.
how to quantify?

@71 Here the PM doesn’t open a company with his friend and charge $500 million commission for a submarine deal

Are you sure? Here our PM opened two over 100B companies under his name. And the GIC was so secet that it was only known just recently. Goodness know how many money have been siphoned away in recent years?

Sg been washing a lot of black money, HDB buys land from URA etc, SAF buys food from the Lee family business and HDB house lease must go thru the Lees too, isnt that comission already?

I think you are a troll.

semua talk only no action,change what? change the soup same ingredient does it make any difference

HDB/CPF policies have failed spectacularly!!!

Why? There were 409 Lease Buyback applications to HDB but only 80 qualified. So now HDB may expand the target group for this scheme to beyond the 3-roomers.

Sheesh – Husband and wife work their tails off to buy the only one substantive asset (ie, HDB flat) … only to realize that in their twilight years they have to sell their lease back to HDB to get a measly $400-$600 monthly sustenance that is NOT even inflation-indexed (whereas value of HDB flats is inflation indexed).

HDBers are desperate for Lease Buyback. Private condo owners are desperate to die-die-must-sell-en-bloc even knowing that they will be Refugees, Squatters, Downgraders, Downsizers after the “en bloc windfall”!

http://www.singaporeenbloc.blogspot.com

In the international arena, we dare not tell the world that we are a DEVELOPED nation. This is because we have made to eat humble pie once before. This was when GCT was PM. He declared to the world during a national day speech broadcast live, that Singapore had attained DEVELOPED nation statue which infact we have not! The claim was shot down by many developed countries! It was the joke of the year! Since then, the MSM has refrained from using the words DEVELOPED country to describe Singapore, so as not to rekindle the joke!
Instead, we now call ourselves FIRST WORLD!
We have aspired to have the SWISS std. of living by 2010. We are only a few days to 2010, where is this called SWISS std.of living? More likely we are heading towards the RUSSIAN std. of living. The income gap between the super-rich and the poor is getting wider and wider!
The property bubble will certainly burst in the not distant future, as it had happened
to Japan in the early 80s. When that happens,Singapore will be hit so badly that
the result will be similar to the atomic bomb that hit Hiroshima and Nagasaki!!
They citizens will suffer. And you know what the $million minister will say?
“Oh we didn’t see it coming, it happened so fast!!”

In the international arena, we dare not tell the world that we are a DEVELOPED nation. This is because we have made to eat humble pie once before. This was when GCT was PM. He declared to the world during a national day speech broadcast live, that Singapore had attained DEVELOPED nation statue which infact we have not! The claim was shot down by many developed countries! It was the joke of the year! Since then, the MSM has refrained from using the words DEVELOPED country to describe Singapore, so as not to rekindle the joke!
Instead, we now call ourselves FIRST WORLD!
We have aspired to have the SWISS std. of living by 2010. We are only a few days to 2010, where is this called SWISS std.of living? More likely we are heading towards the RUSSIAN std. of living. The income gap between the super-rich and the poor is getting wider and wider!
The property bubble will certainly burst in the not distant future, as it had happened
to Japan in the early 80s. When that happens,Singapore will be hit so badly that
the result will be similar to the atomic bomb that hit Hiroshima and Nagasaki!!
They citizens will suffer. And you know what the $million minister will say?
“Oh we didn’t see it coming, it happened so fast!!”

with 20% of the population in poverty, naturally, we cannot be a developed country lol. I wonder why our minister pay is justified then…

The Singapore of today is very different from the time I felt goosebums on National Day when the National Anthem was sung. I felt so proud to be a Singaporean then. Today, I can feel anger and suspicions amongst the citizenry. This is not healthy for a country. It’s like a cancer growing. All the morphines (lies) are just camouflaging the pains. It’s gonna be ugly but to what extent and when the pent up anger will erupt is anybody’s guess.

You think so easy to kick the PAP out??? No way friend, you are dreaming.
They will use the GRC system and discredit the opposition candidates to frighten timid and selfish Singaporeans. They will keep HDB prices as high as possible so that typical and majority of kiasu, Kiasi, greedy and timid Singaporeans happy as they believe they are assets rich.
They will boast about the economy and desparately use the IRs to spur economic growth. The election machinery is gearing up as the casinos are completing in April 2009 then for the two IRs, easy handouts in $ and shares to the people and all the goodies coming soon.

They have successfully relax immigration polices to flood the population with foreigners and give out easily PRs and Citizenships, soon every one Singapore equal one foreigner. You singaporean have a place? Sorry.

the normal Singaporeans busily competing and work until you drop dead and you like to stay and dont like they dont bother about you because they care about their pockets and millions and millions of $$$$ in salaries and high positions.

Their own PAP party have no competition, no foreign talents and they collect millions and billions in taxes to fund political secretaries, grassroots members to work for them.

Sorry, it will go into the World Record of 100 years or more perpetual rule over majority of selfish Singaporeans for many golden years for the PAP with the newspaper monopolising the minds and easy emotions and timid nature of Singaporeans and forever grateful of foreigners.

You like you stay, cannot tahan, please go elsewhere and even if you are sick or dying go out of Singapore to seek medical care or retirement. We are a party to care about ourselves and we Singaporeans unfortunately have to be kiasu, kiasi. greedy and timid otherwise, we will be sued, ostracised and destroyed. Why would you want to be hero in this remarkable and overcrowded and expensive city,.

The PAP will have absolute power and control over Singaporeans with the majority of Singaporeans returning and returning the PAP to power. History have proven as every election the PAP is returned strongly to power.

Hello, no point talking about this and than. PAP is the longest party and only party in the world to serve the special breed of Singaporeans and we are unique and i dont think any party or people know what Singaporeans want better than the PAP. The majority of Singaporeans like them ok? sorry .

HDB miss to make extra $2 billion instead of the $2 billion deficit for the last year.

// Starry

No it is not Singaporean choice.

It is LKY’s choice

What kind of “world class leaders” we have, whom stoop to such low-down method by “milking” it’s citizens. Lately they keep “washing our brain” that HDB Flats so affordable, and they lie with their eyes wide open. Showing us Instalment to Income ratio from 25% to 32%, and have to top-up with cash. Call this affordable?.

I really wonder who are the ones who came up with these statistics and excuses lately? They are totally lame, not only from this HDB thing but many others.
Their so-called Think-Tanks must be leaking.

But people are still buying their lame excuses. People are still snapping up Sky-High Flats with Sky-High prices. And the “world class leaders” are laughing themselves to the bank. They thought : ” Even I come up with such lame excuses, people still buy them. Hahaha.” They are laughing every micro-seconds it takes to receive S$10 for each application on-line, easy-money. That’s why you see Mah Bow Tan’s eyes so small, and face all so cramp up in the banner near the Tampines Round Market traffic junction wishing everybody “Merry Christmas” you citizens are the “Real Santa Claus”.

Hey Harry, I don’t think it is definitely reflective of Singaporeans when we refer to the high take up rate of these hdb flats with crazy price tags.

For instance, if 1000 people are stuck on a boat without food, and the only thing to eat is their own faeces, 10 of these people decided to do so while the rest do not. By being able to see only the 10 who are eating shit doesn’t mean we should draw the conclusion that the balance 9990 are willing to do so.

Plus, when it comes to asset prices, there is always the issue of false perceived value, especially since man has always shown to have a short term memory and are not capable of learning from history. Just look at all the asset bubbles in the past few decades. They did not form for the lack of information, they formed because of herd mentality and sometimes aided by external environment, such as government policies.

As the saying goes, Singaporeans know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

106) Starry on December 23rd, 2009 10.24 pm

Good news for you : mortality = finite, not eternity.

19) How Sure? on December 22nd, 2009 10.30 am

1 thing to note is
while many are poorer due to recession, weak economy, financial crisis, investment fiascos, pay cuts, wage freeze, depressed wage due to competition,
there are many who have become richer and many who have always been classified as rich. These Are Not affected by living costs and the economy to the extent that they are poor.

1. would these care about hikes?
2. would these worry about their CPF which is capped at 4500 when their income is so much higher than that?
3. would these worry about HDB prices? private property prices? They should actually like property prices to go as high as possible. They get even better returns.

There is only 1 way out.
I have had enough! I mean i have too much mee siam with hum. Now i lao sai.

Another way to “KOP” your CPF $$, with the increase in HDB price, your retirement CPF withdrawal will definitely reduce.
Putting into their pocket first, then say your CPF is not enough….

if someone say, you want house price to drop then economy will drop very badly as well. do you want this to happen? most people will say no.

on surface this is really very true for the person to make such a statement.

but i guess the truth is no matter how, when a person who earn millions will never understand and feel how a person who earn thousands feel.

if really all ministers around the world, if to earn a pay of thousands like their ordinary people and not millions, i think they will then really know and feel what their citizens need. bring back down to earth.

but when this happen, will the country really have not talent who want to be minister or will corruptions be very bad?

to join politics or to become a minister should be a social work? am i right?

if we are doing social work, we cannot expect pay to be millions.

my friend who have a degree in socialogy mention social work need the passion and really good heart.

to do social work we will expect pay to be very high.

but is politics same as social work?

if yes,

which means politicians should not get millions in pay no matter how good they are since it is social work.

if really politicians can earn a lot then i think we should let social workers earn a lot as well.

Thank you people for your all the good advice. My dad has always given me freedom . I am not letting anyone take it away from me.

Seems like the only way for you to let your loved one own the house is through our death. Then the insurance will cover for the full sum of the house.

Smoke , drink and eat all you want.. dying a decade earlier is not all that bad to give our kids a better life

Dear Mr Leong,

You list the prices of flats ranging from 120k to 320k.
However, there is no mention of the housing grants that are given out.
According to the HDB website, these grants range from 30k-80k
(depending on income).

If the poorer members (who will get the highest subsidy of 80k) get the cheaper flats, doesn’t that make them liable for only 40k loans? And if they are truely in bad shape, they can rent from HDB where they will only pay $20-$30 per month or nothing depending on circumstances.

But of course, For the middle income (the 40-60% percentile income of $5148), i do agree with you. If one were to take the typical 4rm HDB prices of 320k, these people will have to pay quite a hefty sum even after the housing grants.

Nevertheless, i don’t think we should remove land from the cost as you imply.
To say SLA is part of teh govt, so HDB should get teh land for free does not make gd accounting sense for accountability. In commercial firms, even if someone owns multiple companies, they should keep seperate accounts even though it’s the same person’s money.

Moving away from principle, there is also an issue of effectiveness.
Such a move is an “across-board subsidy” which benefit everyone including people who can afford 1300psf flats. Why should the state waste resources on subsidising them?

Instead, we should focus on the current strategy of targetted subsidies, through the Additional Housing Grant, by increasing the Income Ceiling and the amount disbursed. This way we can ensure the money goes to those in need and not the rich.

///To say SLA is part of teh govt, so HDB should get teh land for free does not make gd accounting sense for accountability. In commercial firms///
,
That is precisely the difference between what is called public and what is called private.

The reduced cost (assuming it is operating out from strict genuine cost recovery basis) of public services (that no private would want to engage) and hence consequential benefits gets transferred to the wider public (generally everyone to be fair) for their own priotised consumption / further use. This is the essence of good public service in contrary to high rent seeking which benefits more for those who have the chance to be involved in such projects by virtue of their departmental or positional status.

In services that are provided by commercial firms because public insititions are unable to provide for good reason , whatever benefits (either profit, consumption in the form of expenses, or employees’ compensation) arising from efficiency already get taxed in the form of corporate tax, gst and income tax already.

Either method, cosumers get to pay but the amount or gravity of it is different depending of how it is structured for the benefits / inherent costs that come with it to the different groups of stakeholders. And how finely this is to be balanced among the different players / stakeholders requires transparency, openess and accoutability so that all who are involved get to work with all the right appropriate information.

///even if someone owns multiple companies, they should keep seperate accounts even though it’s the same person’s money.///

In accounting, form over substance prevails and the recent financial crisis has shown how important this is. Your example only shows that all benefits will ultimately flows to the owner(s) of multiple companies. In the context of pricing land use and no matter how you slice it, SLA and HDB are one big collective institution aka public service which are supposed to operate for the benefits of the citizens, unlike for the owners as far as commerical firms go.

117) Singaporean on December 25th, 2009 2.58 pm

“In the context of pricing land use and no matter how you slice it, SLA and HDB are one big collective institution aka public service which are supposed to operate for the benefits of the citizens, unlike for the owners as far as commerical firms go.”

—-

Actually, no. SLA and HDB are not the same thing.
SLA is the custodian of Singapore’s land. Their job is to protect the “land reserves” we have as a country.

HDB is just one of the many govt agencies hungry for land. MOH wants land to build hospitals, MOE wants land to build schools, NParks wants land for parks and recreational places. JTC wants them for factories.

Even though, as citizens, we see govt as a monolithic entity, in reality, it is not. There are various agencies, with their own objectives and goals. SLA is created to keep check on ‘internal plundering’ by the various govt agencies because land is scarce in SIngapore. If HDB was given free, unnfettered access to land, this will be at the cost of some other areas, which are probably as important.

Hence, it is necessary to keep seperate accounts so that the govt can keep track of each agency’s use of the land and weight the tradeoffs between the different needs.. If industrial land price is high vis-a-vis housing prices, the govt will know where to allocate the scarce land to. If HDB prices do not reflect land costs, it will be hard to compare and determine the area of greatest need.

Furthermore, HDB (and citizens) will be blind to the true costs and may encourage wastage. It’s human psycology.. if things are cheap, we tend to be more wasteful. (think food wastage in Sg).

Of course, this doesn’t mean we should leave people homeless if they can’t afford homes. What I advocate is the third alternative- to factor in the price, so HDB and people know how much the homes really costs. But provide grants to mitigate the high cost. As mentioned earlier, it is more efficient since it help those who need it and not waste money on the rich.

///Even though, as citizens, we see govt as a monolithic entity, in reality, it is not.
There are various agencies, with their own objectives and goals. SLA is created to keep check on ‘internal plundering’ by the various govt agencies because land is scarce in SIngapore. If HDB was given free, unnfettered access to land, this will be at the cost of some other areas, which are probably as important.///

In principle, you are right. In practice, I leave it to the better judgement of the many readers here who may have a different view on this monolisthic entity and its various agencies.

As for the ‘internal plundering’, I hope you are not pulling off a fast one here as the average person has not got the power to slice and dice the big land cake, and the people who are given the power to deal with it are all from a possibly monolisthic entity you are talking about.

And if HDB has been given the land free, please tell us how it can indeed be wrongly used and how the benefits from the usage for strict housing can possibly go to other people other than singaporeans.

Where land is scare, it does not take much to understand that is made easier on the usage if is shared among fewer people than more people.

I leave it to you to juggle your own imagination on the different key variables as to the population makeup (both residents & non-residents), land use vis-a-vis the different more influential & powerful private players & public agencies – on which the hope of any housing for an average new family may mean HDB (provided they even qualify). It would put any argument to rest if actual costs & meaningful breakdown can be disclosed as I am sure there would not be a dearth of qualified people on the relevant areas in the blogosphere to give their views.

///If HDB prices do not reflect land costs, it will be hard to compare and determine the area of greatest need.///

And how do you define the area of greatest need. The highest bidder with very deep pocket or the need for a decent shelter of an average household who may draw only sgd2,000/-, sgd3,000/- or sgd4,000/- per month.

Where the limited buying power of an average household for a decent shelter can easily get outbidden by big private sector players catering to both local & foreign buyers with sactions from public agencies, the former can easily be overlooked as the benefits from the latter is more immediate and realised quickly as far as public agencies are concerned.

///Furthermore, HDB (and citizens) will be blind to the true costs and may encourage wastage. It’s human psycology.. if things are cheap, we tend to be more wasteful. (think food wastage in Sg).///

Does it also have any relevance that people who are rich and well paid may also be wasteful as anything that poor and average person may not be able to afford are actually cheap to them.

You have given me clue as to the wasteful food left over on the table that rich people cater for their parties.

Back to true costs, it is more on giving back the benefits more equitably to the households who need it most than to the public agencies and to those who managed to bit high and recover high (hence on inflationary effect) from either in the private housing or rental & revenue income in commercial units.

@116

Are you brainwash or not or is your current affair that bad? The article is BTO, all new HDB are already at subsidy prices, meaning there is no 40k HDB grant at all. Where on earth did you get that 80k grant?

If you can get 80k grant, for a 250k BTO flat, that means that flat for resales cost 330k, minus cash valuation, got it?

There is no discount whatever so for new flats, muhahaha

I remember in the recent papers, LKY says if voters vote for him, he will built two 50 storey flats at his tanjong pajar ward. Meaning to say, those that vote against him or unhappy with him, he will build short storeys and raise the HDB prices to make you poorer.

It is his job to ensure that the opposition stays poor too. Everything must be regulated and control. The only way u can get rich is to support the PAP forever and he will make life easy for u. Or else suffer the wrath of low rise and expensive HDB. Btw, 70% of sg land is on granite land, meaning it can easily support building as high as 100 storey. It whether they want or not. 1/3 of our land is golf and miltary base too, for your information.

There is really no way other than the 1 way or the other way where Nature Dictates.

Where all man have failed , there is still nature looking over us.

When you bought a house, do you hope for your house value to appreciate or depreciate? Common sense, isn’t it? May be only residents of Hougang and Potong Pasir do not think logically.

//My Views

When you buy a lease, and you have to buy another lease to sell the previous one, then it is best that the lease stays the same price.

This is the logical thing. That’s why the earlier HDB policies was to keep flats price flat for a long time.

The case in point: Singaporeans losing out on the opportunity cost of not having enough monies for retirement.

residents of Hougang and Potong Pasir have both: monies for retirement and a flat.

The rest of Singapore: a flat.

You must be a housing agent. You think only in your self interest.

People are so kiasu to pay for high prices or expected to pay for high prices for hdb and other types of home in Singapore. Wake up guys, these homes are NOT yours as it is LEASE for 99 years!

For goodness sake, it is just a roof over our head! There are more important things than just property.

The government kept harping that Sg is land scarce, but drive around Singapore, one see so many unused land. If you wanted to see land scarcity, visit New York city or Hong Kong for that matter.

To buy property that looks dilapidated for nearly S$1 million or HDB houses that so cramped, do you guys ever wonder……..IS IT WORTH IT?

@124

I dont know about Potong Pasir but I do know about Hougang. But it could be for the same reasons.

It was because 20 years ago Hougang was once a kampong with many farms, the people there, mainly the Teochows are robbed of their land and given nearby HDB. You give them low value for their lands and give them a HDB with 99 years. Their kampong lands are so big that it could sit 10 HDB flats! And the gov sells their land later for billions!

They got so upset that they vote against the PAP everytime. Because this used to be the gov they had trusted and was sourly betrayed.

As for Potong Pasir, they must have similar grievances and they have much backbones, their estate is so old, that they could even reject upgrading. Money do not buy trust. Money is not everything.

If that is your mentality, @124, either you are brainwash or you are not versed in current affairs. Other countries like M’sia and Australia have depreciating value for houses and they are doing fine.

Most of the poor can’t speculate anyway, a home is a home. What is the point of letting it appreciate like hell? What more you want it to appreciate like hell and then it expired? The unluckily one will be the last one that got the baton. Have you ever cosidered how much your children will be paying for a house, unless of cos, you are a troll and also earning millions of dollars to care or is a property agent.

@126

You are right. 1/3 of the land in sg is golf courses, country clubs and bases and there are still many unused land everywhere. Even in matured estates, there are many unused lands, and they are planned to be used later by building 30-50 storeys so that HDB can charge high prices for them.

“When you bought a house, do you hope for your house value to appreciate or depreciate? Common sense, isn’t it? May be only residents of Hougang and Potong Pasir do not think logically.”

For investment, naturally any investor would want it to go up as there would be higher rental revenue if it is rented out and higher capital gain if sold out.

For new purchasers, common sense, isn’t it ? Which new purchasers would want to purchase at a higher value with a possibility that they may not be able to afford it.

For existing house owners and if it the only unit they need to live in, common sense, isn’t it as there is still a higher replacement cost to think about if they sell off their existing units unless they are packing up for good to another country.

All prices of things must reflect the real purchasing power of the poeple (I am talking more for the average families) concerned vis-a-vis all the competing needs of the other stuff in life & the underlying economic fundamentals – real fundamentals not artificially adulterated to the extent that the purchasing power of your average citizens get skewed unfavourably.

As you can see, while the citizens have a social contractual understanding to help build the country, they are now seeing that this social contract is not really going the way it should be and they are quite powerless in controlling the unwanted tension adding to this competing needs.

[i]My Views on December 26th, 2009 3.52 am When you bought a house, do you hope for your house value to appreciate or depreciate? Common sense, isn’t it? May be only residents of Hougang and Potong Pasir do not think logically. [/i]

is that why marborough the shortleggs minister was sent in as 1st choice to be the pap MP?

this 1
i also agreed with you…
May be only residents of Hougang and Potong Pasir do not think logically.
god would had punished both the wards ABOVE if they had voted marborough the shortleggs MP to represent them…

120) Fools

Ah, point taken.
I read too fast and missed out the portion that it refers to BTO flats.
You are right that the grants do not apply to BTO flats.

119) Singaporean

Just want to point out, I feel that we should not leave people homeless without houses, just because they cannot afford houses. What I am saying is there are other ways of preventing that- i.e targeting subsidies, apart from manipulating the prices. Manipulating the prices by removing land costs is firstly inefficient because it benefits rich people who don’t need to benefit. Secondly, it distorts the price as a signal of scarcity and encourages wastage.

If I understand u correctly, I don’t think you object to the notion that it is inefficient, but you seem to disagree using price as a signal of scarcity.

Land has many uses that benefit the people. Commercial and industrial land does not ONLY benefit corporations like what you seem to suggest. Take an example, Industrial land benefits people by having factories for factory workers to work in. Given that there is limited land, there is an inherent tradeoff between the different possibilities of land use. Having prices that are comparable will help government decide which land use is more urgent.

Of course, you are right in saying that it is inequitable to decide on the basis of price alone. It should NOT be used as a decision rule, but at the very least we should have it as a diagnostic tool. How can we tell if we have a housing bubble or too much houses when the prices do not reflect the situation?

Even if you disagree with the diagnostic argument, surely you should agree that lower prices encourage ‘wastage’. You are right to say that that the poor can barely afford to pay, how will they waste? But the problem is removing land cost lowers prices for everyone, including those who are originally richer and the middle class. And these are the people that we should be worried about wasting more. (this is also another reason why targeted subsidies for poor works better than a simply lowering of price for everyone).

Plus, lowering the price will increase demand too- one example being young adults. While most young adults in other countries move out when they are 20s, Singaporeans usually stay with their parents till they married- one of the reason being high housing/rental prices. Given Singapore lacks land, it is wasteful to have parents with empty bedrooms in one house and kids renting another place outside.

The galloping prices of HDB and private properties only benefit the rich and speculators.

Heard of recent years private en-bloc owners using their windfall of a few millions buying private properties and one HDB flat (or more than one HDB flat if their children are old enough to own HDB) to stay and collect rents on thier other properties?

Or the rich buying HDB flat and leaving it empty (or renting it out) and waiting for prices to appreciate before selling for a tidy profit?

Or some smart PRs (just after getting PR status very easily) buying HDB flat, go back to their home country or other country to work, while collecting rent and waiting for prices to appreciate before selling off for a profit?

But for the majority of Singaporeans, the galloping prices does nothing much help but harm, as have to sell high, buy high as it is the only roof over their head not like those richer folks or some smart PRs.

Refer to (129) by [Singaporean] :

“For new purchasers, common sense, isn’t it ? Which new purchasers would want to purchase at a higher value with a possibility that they may not be able to afford it.”

Have you heard about words such as bank loans or subsidised HDB loans? You don’t expect every one’s property value falls except the one that you bought! In a healthy economy, property values go up though at times government’s measures are required to slow down the speed of growth – as what Singapore Government has been doing.

“For existing house owners and if it the only unit they need to live in, common sense, isn’t it as there is still a higher replacement cost to think about if they sell off their existing units unless they are packing up for good to another country. ”

You don’t seem to know that in real life, there are times Singaporeans need cash to tie them over. In an uprising property market, these people could sell their HDB flats, pocket the difference and live in a new HDB flat which they could take their time to pay for.

Refer to (133) by [Wah Bian Ah] :

What is wrong with getting rich? You worked hard, do the right things, study well and made good money. Why can’t you invest your money in a number of properties collecting rental?

Like it or not, Singapore depends on the rich to invest – just as it depends on foreigners to contribute and spend.

//My Views

//What is wrong with getting rich? You worked hard, do the right things, study well and made good money. Why can’t you invest your money in a number of properties collecting rental?

Thank you for acknowledging that most Singaporeans are not rich in spite the claims made by the govt. That is true despite being a thrifty and hardworking population for 4 decades.

Else we would all have a few properties to rent out.

//Like it or not, Singapore depends on the rich to invest – just as it depends on foreigners to contribute and spend.

Most countries need their local citizens to work and contribute and spend.
It had been the case for Singaporeans until the past 2 decades cause our monies are locked up in CPF with poor returns.

And only foreigners are given the advantages to invest profitably.

//My views

//Why can’t you invest your money in a number of properties collecting rental?

Of course, you can. But you could have also invested in shares.

However, the return rate for shares in Singapore GLC shares are not good.

I wonder why? Of course, with the kind of losses by TH, how much is left to distribute.

Many rental properties have fewer residential restrictions than HDB flats (keeping cats, home offices etc), and your landlord is even obliged to look after many of the things you’d have to settle yourself if you were an owner-resident.

My Views

post #134 on December 26th, 2009 6.23 pm

define a “healthy econmomy”, in S’pore’s context wiothout comparing to other countries.

////these people could sell their HDB flats, pocket the difference and live in a new HDB flat which they could take their time to pay for.////

or you can say most cannot afford to pay up in the shortest time possible, because there is an income ceiling which binds them. in a world where the economy is constantly changing do you realise how unsecure (about their jobs) people are? how it will affect S’pore’s Total Fertility Rate (TFR)?

post #135 on December 26th, 2009 6.29 pm

////Like it or not, Singapore depends on the rich to invest – just as it depends on foreigners to contribute and spend.////

why so?

I have already give up hope on the PAP government as they are not helping to resolve the problem but instead trying to exploit the situation to suck more money from the citizens. Hope more will join me to vote against PAP in the next GE and only then there is a hope for everyone !!!!

After creating the problem for it’s citizen, what PAP can offer is just a slip service by saying “affordable”. If it is indeed affordable, why are so many people complaining. ?Wake-up PAP, start to do some real work and please remember you are paid exorbitant salary to run the country and we expect you to perform 5 times better than US politician since your salary is 5 times of their. Please don’t contradict the theory “pay peanut you got money” because you are behaving like a monkey despite not getting peanut salary !!!!

Refer to (140) by [SBTL]

” Hope more will join me to vote against PAP in the next GE and only then there is a hope for everyone !!!! ”

If there were enough fools doing what you intend to do on the ballot, Singaporeans should be prepared for national disasters such as runaway inflation, corruption, high unemployment, political instability and capital flight! You replaced capable people like Lim Hwee Hua and Wong Kan Seng with idealists such as Sylvia Lim and Chiam See Tong, Singapore will become the next Argentina of 1980s! Inflation shot up 5,000%! No need to worry about the foreign talents, they all would have left by then.

My Views

post #142 on December 27th, 2009 3.50 am

runaway inflation – HDB prices
capital flight – woe foreigners (individuals, MNCs…) at high cost at the expense of locals
corruption – addiction to GDP (growth at all cost) with no real benefits to society, greed $$
high unemployment – if not high why govt spend $$ on re-training, job-matching, JCS scheme? dp into National Reserves you know.
political instability – ooh… do you mean our current leadership is having things too easy? no real competition, so not much incentive to work for the masses (not themselves)?

////Singapore will become the next Argentina of 1980s! Inflation shot up 5,000%!////

this must be “the worse to come”? from your post in other article in TOC? looks like S’pore will head straight there in time to come if things dun change. lol….

//My Views

As if there is no high inflation now.

Go compare prices in 2005 to 2009 and do a calculation.

This is in spite of high exchange rate (which is prop up).

We have at least 2 opposition MPs over the last 2 decades with no problems. We have instead mis-investments and scams from the pigs@ parliament camp.

It is foolish to pay the pigs so much monies when they don’t perform.

Voting in the opposition will make the remaining pigs work a lot harder.
It is as simple as that.

It is a democratic choice.

Every democratic country goes through this. Even Japan.

//My views

This is like choosing your partners.

Do you want to be like Lee Wan Lin who never exercise that choice out of fear, etc (whatever reasons)

and miss out on the joy of marriage?

All the more so when, the opposition is less costly and sticky than the pigs (whose livelihood depends on being in politics)

///Have you heard about words such as bank loans or subsidised HDB loans? You don’t expect every one’s property value falls except the one that you bought! In a healthy economy, property values go up though at times government’s measures are required to slow down the speed of growth – as what Singapore Government has been doing.///

The high prices of public housing may cross your personal earning threshold for bank loans and subsidised loans. Government’s measures are pretty unpredictable and no one knows when it will come, if it ever comes.

Prices of property will likely to go up because of basic human needs (demand for shelther) and the whole financing mechanism has a tendency of bringing forward purchase, hence inflation. The downward effect will be mostly minor correction in our context as the demand is additionally driven by non-residents converted residents while the supply is subject to the control of our public housing institution.

//You don’t seem to know that in real life, there are times Singaporeans need cash to tie them over. In an uprising property market, these people could sell their HDB flats, pocket the difference and live in a new HDB flat which they could take their time to pay for.///

This sounds like the words of a property agent. And have you ever ever imagined that the smart people in public housing institution may be slowly increasing the prices of new flats to close the gap between higher market resale value and the former, hence imposing the very unneeded tension for a lot of average new families.

“Land has many uses that benefit the people. Commercial and industrial land does not ONLY benefit corporations like what you seem to suggest.”

The discussion is namely on pricing (or free pricing of land) for public housing.
Was not the authority targetting for a much higher population. Surely, the planning on such land space was in the pipeline.

Or were they targeting for more foreigners to match the demand of the many new private properties that we are seeing over Singapore which will give the authority a better return proposition.

“surely you should agree that lower prices encourage ‘wastage’. You are right to say that that the poor can barely afford to pay, how will they waste? But the problem is removing land cost lowers prices for everyone, including those who are originally richer and the middle class.”

Isn’t there some qualifying income threshold for the puchase of hdb flats. The country is already taxing the rich & better off middle income in the form of income tax and higher gst through normally higher consumption.

Your method of capturing everyone through high price and then give back to the only deserving is creating everyday tension to those who cannot catch up just because of certain delibrate policy and may convert them to a dependency & having-to-beg mode.

As you know, applying for assistance is a tedious technical obstacle especially for the very group of people who need assistance and any official rejection of any request is sometimes a standard reply which adds more questions rather than answer.

@142

Waa, u can even quote PAP members like Lim Hwee Hua and Wong Kan Seng . Most of us dont even know who they are. Did they speak up for the people, speak against the high cost of HDB? I do not know them. They need to earn respect, just like the other 80 unknown PAP, who contributed nothing.

So u r saying it is alright for the PAP to ruin Singapore? It not the rich that is paying the taxes. It is the mass that is the paying the taxes. And the middle class is the most squeeze.

[i]If there were enough fools doing what you intend to do on the ballot, Singaporeans should be prepared for national disasters such as runaway inflation, corruption, high unemployment, political instability and capital flight! [/i]

then why introduced GRC
do you take us for a FOOL?
unless you want to say
we can raised our kids from birth to university thru thorough expensive tutions/schoolfees..
but we are FOOL enough not to looked after our cpf retirement funds while the pap government helped us to make our cpf investment grow bigger in terms of paper valued while lossin billion$ without blinkin an eyelid…
wow! when is your cpf retirement fund due? may i asked POLITELEE…
are you FOOL enough to let leekuanyew tell you when and how to take your funds out? how about you doin your sex act? leekuanyew provide the 69 idiot guide handbook as well?

how many people have household income of $6000? How many people who are now ministers or civil servants (oops should be masters) can afford house in Oxley Road and still go on to buy seven figures apartment? ditto son,ditto daughter and brother?
People who lives in ivory towers for too long forget what the outside is like!
I just hope more people both inside and outside ivory towers will wake up!

how many people have household income of $6000? How many people who are not ministers or civil servants (oops should be masters) can afford house in Oxley Road and still go on to buy seven figures apartment? ditto son,ditto daughter and brother?
People who lives in ivory towers for too long forget what the situation outside is like!
I just hope more people both inside and outside ivory towers will wake up!

Can I ask you guys if you are allowed to withdraw your CPF if you decide to migrate?

It’s alright.
The idiots who voted for PAP deserves to have nothing in their CPF at the age of 60 and start drawing $200 a month at 65 when a loaf of bread cost $10. If lucky, they get cancer and die before the money runs out.

Refer to (148) by [oh holy].

“So u r saying it is alright for the PAP to ruin Singapore?”

Under the PAP, SIngapore has progressed from a third world to become FIRST WORLD nation.

//My Views

//Under the PAP, SIngapore has progressed from a third world to become FIRST WORLD nation.

A first world nation where the median pay has stagnated for the last decade.

My foot.

What are the contributions to civilization besides tall buildings?

It is built on locking innocent people up for no reason.

My Views

post #154 on December 29th, 2009 2.28 pm

////Under the PAP, SIngapore has progressed from a third world to become FIRST WORLD nation.////

1st world? this term is used only when it suites them. also, not forgetting its the previous team that did it.

i do not see how a 99-year lease can equate to home ownership. that is a very costly lease with decades of commitment, coupled with an ever increasingly uncertain future. its all too easy to fall deep into debt, how can this be 1st world?

Mic O Mic

post #153 on December 29th, 2009 1.49 pm

yeah, scary thought… -.-”

aiyoyo,

cant tahun la

hdb price so high!!!

hope 2010 can make hdb REALLY affordable!!!

aiyoyo

@154

Define First World Country Pls. We have toliets and a home? All countries have it and moreover we r sucha tiny city, if we dont even have the basic amendities, then we r worse then HK. We only have MRT in the last decade only, copied from HK.

PAP credit? Pui, it is the people’s credit. In fact, the toliet bowl is not even a credit to the gov at all but due to advances from other countries.

Why First World country , we have 1/5 of our population in such a dire state and we dont even have any welfare? We revise our bills every 3 months compared to the yearly increase or several years increase from other nations.

It is obvious that you r a troll. If u r a liverpool fan, you dont go MU forum and praise liverpool. It stupid right? Now you realize it but too late, we all know you r a troll. You better stay in Outreach and other gov forums and praise all you want.

Great article Mr Leong. People, listen up! When our beloved MM says everything must go up, pls be prepared for ‘Everything will come down’!

If you still remember that MM said in 2008, that we are living in a golden period. What happens next???? I guess you people would already know. The financial crisis falls right after his predictions!!!!!

Its time for him to go down!!!! Period……

Since, the 90s to now, we have five times as many poor and unfortunate people. I wonder why we r considered a First World Country now and not back then, when the society is equaled.

Then after reading today’s paper, the PM says, he will raise the Per Capital of the Country. It is impossible since the poor and the jobless increased. Then I realized that he meant to increase the rich even more. By paying millions more dollars to the rich ministers and civil servants, our GDP will naturally increase even though the poor increased. Kudos to the twisted mind of our PM.

//oh holy

Actually, if LHL really meant what he said: increasing per capital income, ie. increasing every body’s pay, that should be good… provided it is done through improve productivity.

However, there are 2 suspicious points:

1. how come he didn’t do that earlier? What makes him think that GDP alone will suffice? What makes him think that this is sufficient as well. I honestly think his view is too simplistic. His level is not good enough to be a PM.

2. he is not sincere at all. like you said, it is another one of those marketing lines which seem to help us but in the end ended up fattening his pockets or rather the pigs pocket.

Actually, he needs to make sure that investments by GIC and TH is done properly and makes a minimum rate.

The current standards as demonstrated over the last 20 years is lousy.

“Every Singaporean who owns a flat can double his value in today’s terms within the next 15 to 20 years. In other words, in the next 20 years, we can make everybody worth twice as much, at least.”
- PM Lee Kuan Yew, National Day Rally, 1990

[...] also: Higher HDB prices good for Singaporeans? by Leong Sze [...]

For someone like me, in my early 30s, single, makes 2k a mth, thinking of buying a flat is nothing but an illusion.
The brainy PAP folks should know by now Singles like myself will continue to increase. After all, they’ve had a big say in creating & proliferating my kind. 
The Government wants me to get married & have kids so I can enjoy “discount” for a roof over my head. So I should grab some poor gal off the street, go to ROM, & rejoice at the “savings” I get from our esteemed government.
But I’m a hardworking Singaporean who’s paid my dues to the Nation. But my Pink IC is only worth as much as a FT’s work visa. What a farce.