If what Ravi said were true, that we have hanged innocent men is not a remote possibility. We have hanged innocent men.

Shameful Singapore. I am ashamed.

Good video, SDP, keep it up.

Well done, TOC, for putting up this SDP’s video for all to view!

It is very enlightening. An excellent effort by SDP to throw some light into the legal aspect of Mandatory Death Sentence.

Being a Singaporean, I am really ashamed to be part of this kind of society that our leaders have so adamantly made it to be. This is the price we are paying for being apathetic and ignorant of the things going on around us.

8/12/09

Mandatory Death Penalty for Drugs Trafficking must be maintained at all costs and our Modern Singapore must not give in to this small group of people who are calling for its abolishment and if we do, we are giving the wrong message ie we are weak and we will see more Drugs Traffickers like Vong and the rests who had been hanged, in Singapore. No mercies must be shown including Vong who has admitted that he knew what he was carrying.

I represent the silent majority of Ordinary Singaporeans who want the Mandaory Death Penalty for Drugs Trafficking to be maintained forever so that we ordinary Singaporeans can go to bed sleep soundly and wake up fresh the next day to continue our work with a peace of mind.

Regards
Andrew Chuah

Har? Andrew ah, if your PAP masters stop feting the Burmese junta there’ll be fewer drugs to traffick.

U represent no one but your own self.

I’m not here to comment on the justification of the death penalty per se.

But who’s this Ravi guy? Is he the same guy who was apprehended for peeing in public?

Drug abuse is bad. The British used it to paralyse and cripple the entire Chinese nation in the Opium War saga. Why? Not that they loved the Chinese people but to exact better trade terms visavis Chinese tea, porcelian, silk, etc., for their Indian-grown opium. If you remember history.

Foreigners’ take aside. Singaporeans must continue to stand steadfast regardless to protect our children, brothers and sisters from this deadly scourge before it catches on like wildfire elsewhere.

We send the wrong signals and you bet we’ll be infiltrated by tonnes of international carriers who don’t mind languishing in our 3-meal a day prison at taxpayers’ expense. Look at today’s headlines abt the defiant Ah Longs. Despite the hasher laws these loansharks are still emboldened like mafias.

This video brings to my mind an incident that I personally encountered at our Changi Airport. Way back in 1985 my sister and I were busy talking, waiting to clear passport immigration. A well dressed man casually asked us to help him carry one of his hand luggages. We saw his hands loaded full of about three or four luggages.
My younger sister reached out to take a particular bag handed out by the man, but instinctively I stopped her from accepting it. I shudder to think we may be some drug trafficker’s scapegoat out of a moment’s kindness.
There may be many doubtful or benefit of the doubt cases which the Court has handled here. Meanwhile the drug kingpin in this Yong’s case is still sitting pretty and smug somewhere in Malaysia. And lamentably, only the small fry got the death penalty. The drug lord could continue to entice other vulnerable Yongs to take his place easily.

3) andrew chuah on December 8th, 2009 12.19 pm 8/12/09

Mandatory Death Penalty for Drugs Trafficking must be maintained at all costs and our Modern Singapore must not give in to this small group of people who are calling for its abolishment and if we do, we are giving the wrong message ie we are weak and we will see more Drugs Traffickers like Vong and the rests who had been hanged, in Singapore. No mercies must be shown including Vong who has admitted that he knew what he was carrying.

Andrew Chuah,

If the one convicted of drug trafficking is your family member or relative, will you still say the same thing?

At eighteen I was arrested and charged for heroine consumption and spent ten months in detention. Nary a day gets by in that place without physical abuse or emotional degradation administered by the people holding the office of the law. I moved on from there, got my life on track, got an education, work hard on my career, and eventually head a regional operation of an international organization.
My earlier challenges in life have instilled in me a deep emphathy and compassion for the perculiar challenges that others may have, and also a consiousness of the value which I can add; which I like to believe I had, to the hundreds of lives whose path I crossed.
I wonder.. what if? I had not been able to disposed of the satchet of heroine in my possession when I was arrested, which was equivalent to 500 straws when processed. Definitely enough to send me to the noose.

What if? Yong could have an oportunity to move on in life as I have. What could that life turn out to be?

8/12/09

Hi Har & Lousmarty

Good to hear from you. I am not a running dog of the PAP and I am als preparedto hang my former and only brother who is a top drugs syndicate member based in Penang and he is also very highly educated with top class university from Cambridge, UK and a Master from NUS and has tens of millions of investments in Singapore and my mum once told me that he has very strong cables in Singapore and I told her this is bullshit (yes he has been buying the authorities in Malaysia and went very far to get them to get me under the Malaysia dreaded Internal Security Act-ISA and Sedition Act but failed).

We must not compromise on this and maintain the Mandatory Death Sentence for Drugs Trafficking at all costs and this lawyer Ravi is seeking very cheap popularity so that comes the coming General Election, he stands on Opposition Platform and sure win.

We as Ordinary Singaporeans must put our Modern Singapore and her national interests above all things.

Regards
Andrew Chuah

8/12/09

Should be Commentator and not Lousmarty. My apology.

Regards
Andrew Chuah

I’m saddened by the revelation from Ravi.

Keep on fighting, Ravi. Never ever give up.

To me at least, You are A ok.

To Andrew,

Understand your concern. I used to believe that the ONLY way to eliminate drug misuse and trafficking was through very harsh penalties like death sentence. Having born and bred in SGP, I have been brought up to think along this line, and only along this line.

Fortunately, TOC opened up this issue, explores it, and surfaces other viewpoints to this topic. This led me to stop blindly believing what a few persons in power or the mainstream media want us to simply believe (blindly).

There is now a chance for us to explore, to contemplate, and to even question the assumptions put forth by the authority. Gambling can be as addictive as drugs. The social ills that the former beings to Singapore may not less than that from drugs – simply because ‘casual and occasional gambling’ seems harmless and controllable at first, but may creep up on a person before he knows he’s addicted. Yet, Singapore is setting up 2 major gambling dens. Doesn’t that make you lose more sleep?

My worry is that ‘life and death’ topics such as this, which is a topic of politics, is never ever going to get a real chance of being debated openly, and fairly outside of TOC. And this makes me lose sleep.

8/12/09

Hi SYN

Good to hear from you. Gambling and drugs taking and trafficking are totally different world. The former, you gamble, you die yourself whereas the later our Modern Singapore will be devasted and filled up with drugs addicts like those in Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand and the Philippines where yearly governments there spent billions to rehabilitate them and the major root is these drugs trafficers keep on coming and in Yong’s case he has been delivering “gifts” in Malaysia and Singapore, no mercies must be show and I will not show mercy to my former and only brother the richest man in Penang nor give in to him (just imagine, my dad in his early 70s have had to knell and seek forgiveness from him besides being shouted like a dog and slapped a few times and also asked me to do likewise and I told him Go to Hell-I am a Singaporean and I will never do this, there are only 2 of us in the family and I am the eldest).

Regards
Andrew Chuah

Hi Andrew Chuah, how can you be so sure that Yong does not deserve to be shown mercy? Did you know him personally before his arrest or while he was growing up? Did you visit him in prison or talk to his family about him?

You use your own personal experiences with a brother in Penang to argue for the death penalty. Likewise, Yong’s personal experiences in life can be as justified to argue against it.

9/12/09

Hi Fae,

Good to hear from you. Yong had previously delivered “gifts” to customers in Malaysia and Singapore and he knew what he was delivering in Singapore and was assured that the amount would not warrant the death sentence, and these are good enough for me. Let us put our Modern Singapore and her national interests above all things including our family members as Modern Singapore is much bigger than them, and scumbs like Yong must be put to death for good orelse others like him will continue to come (we already hanged so many of them,yet the keep on coming).

If I am the government today ie PM, I will go all out to seize all the assets of drugs synidcates in Singapore and detain them under the Emergency Ordinance, for good. Parties like SDP and people like Ravi, will continue to advocate for Drugs Traffickers and SDP especially criminals (its former Secretary General Dr Chee went into prison and upon his released, advocated for these criminals to be freed….indeed very sad).

Regards
Andrew Chuah

It’s not sad actually, its only sad to you because you have your personal views on the Death Penalty. Anyone who thinks otherwise from you will actually think that its a good thing.

And why do you think the PM of Singapore today does not go out and seize the assets of all the druglords in Singapore?

The CNB (Central Narcotics Bureau) and the SG government surely know who and where the local druglords are – why, the son of international heroin king Lo Hsing Han has an office in the CBD area! So why does our PM not do what you suggest?

“Good to hear from you. I am not a running dog of the PAP and I am als preparedto hang my former and only brother who is a top drugs syndicate member based in Penang and he is also very highly educated with top class university from Cambridge, UK and a Master from NUS and has tens of millions of investments in Singapore and my mum once told me that he has very strong cables in …”

Strong allegations. Do us a favour, please reveal them to the Singapore police and the Malaysian opposition to take up your case.

Hopefully you are telling the truth and mentally sane.

Since when did Mr Ravi or the SDP advocate for Mr Yong to be freed? You better watch what you are saying.

“all the assets of drugs synidcate…”

They are in Malaysia not Singapore. Should we invade Malaysia to get those bastards?

“we already hanged so many of them,yet the keep on coming”

So what is the purpose?

9/12/09

Hi No.16…..I have done so and the Malaysian authorities had raided them but with their types of money ie in tens of millions, they bought these authorities. I have nothng to hide and these scumbs must be brought to law and face the full wrath of the law regardless whether he is your former and only brother. Lastest, the Malaysian Tax authorities are after them again in Penang.

Regards
Andrew Chuah

I love Malaysian political story telling, no real names are involved, all kinds of allegations are thrown, proof not needed. I am being impartial here, all their political parties do this.

Who wants Mr Yong dead? My guess is the people who are linked to the drug syndicate. After all dead men tell no tales.

Hi Andrew,

What do u think of this: We continue to have the death penalty for drug traffickers, but do away with “mandatory” so that judges has the discretion to decide, base on the details of each case, whether the person ought to be sentenced to death or to other forms of punishment such as life imprisonment? Hence, for example, in cases where which the judges felt that the person should not suffer a death penalty due to very special circumstances, the judges could exercise that discretion to sentence the person to some other punishment.

What do u think?

9/12/09

Hi Question for Andrew Chuah (No.19)

My answer is No discretion for the judges whether to impose death sentence or not, as they have a strong tendency not to because of various reasons which you and I already know, and this will be very bad for our Modern Singapore and we will be seeing a influx of Drugs Traffickers like Yong (sure no kena Death Sentence la, life ok). These are scumbs of our society including Drugs Syndicates who must be put to death than put them in prison and feed them for life.

Regards
Andrew Chuah

Hi Andrew,

Thanks for sharing your personal experience. I sympathize with the emotional and mental devastation that you and family had to go through.

My key point is less about whether I am for or against death sentence or whether Yong should receive clemency, but about
a. that life and death matters such as this should be openly, fairly, and rationally debated – we never really had that chance; and I am not sure if our current legislation system is setup for that kind of debate
b. that we can keep death sentence, but remove the ‘mandatory’ clause – that’s Ravi’s and “question to andrew chuah ” point.

The government’s view is a universal deduction that “remove death sentence implies increase in drug crime”. Existential evidences proved this premise flawed. YawningBread has a gd article on this.

http://www.yawningbread.org/arch_2009/yax-1074.htm

Next, your argument about “you gamble, you die yourself ” is simplistic. “One gambles or takes drugs, and one dies” nevermind. What is of concern is the related and larger direct and indirect social ills that come with the vice: family breakdown; loan sharking; prostitution; crimes; money laundering, etc.

Lastly, if you were PM and you knew that much of the drugs trafficked through Singapore originated from Burma, and you knew about all the political crimes that the Burmese government committed, would you Andrew, for example name our national flower after the Burmese PM? Why would you, the PM, do that?

http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/03/singapore-to-name-orchid-after-burmese-junta-leader/

:)

The law is the law and until such time they are changed they remain the law. Ravi and Ti Lik are lawyers. Their intentions are to embarass the Govt and the Country under the pretext of human rights etc. How can Ravi say that innocent people were hanged. People were hanged yes but to say innocent people is indeed very irresponsible as a lawyer.
I do agree with him that ‘Mandatory’ should be removed and judges be allowed more room to exercise their discretion.
You cannot try to run down the Govt for political reasons and at the same time trying to argue for a change of the law. Opportunists.

9/12/09

Hi SYN

Good to hear from you and I have written on my posting No.20, judges are reluctant to impose the Death Penalty usually and I have done alot of research on this as they don’t want their hands to be stained with blood and would usually instruct the DPP to amend the charge from Death Sentence to Life Imprisonment.

My family story is very sad especially my former only brother who is very highly educated with first degree from Cambridge and a Master from NUS (I am also have a first degree but not from Cambridge and a MBA from US) went into such profession and is the richest man in Penang and even my age Dad had to knell down to him to seek forgiveness and was slapped a few times, and my mum always tell me that being a Singaporean I am not able to shine like him as I am afraid of government and this cannot and that cannot, and I replied to her that I am God fearing and have the fullest respect for the Rule of Law-he, his wife and her brother have broken every single law in Malaysia and all the Malaysian authorities are on their payroll and tried to get me under the Malaysia most dreaded Internal Security Act-ISA and Sedition Act but I am not afraind and I stood up against them till today. Worse, the wife and her brothe always boasted in Penang, they are untouchable and this was confirmed by my mum who told me that those who touch them are asking for death.

Regards
Andrew

9/12/09

Hi SYN

Yes, I am aware that our PM has named our national flower after the Burmese PM as this is unavoided as both Singapore and Burma are founding members of ASEAN (the spirit of ASEAN).

Yes, I am also aware fully that Singapore is being used as a place by Drugs Syndicates to launder their drugs monies and my former only brother also has tens of millions of his drugs monies invested in Singapore (as my mum put to me, he has very strong cables in Singapore, perhaps established during his Master degree days at NUS).

No one is above the Rule of Law and whoever breaks the law must face the full wrath of the Rule of Law, no buts, ifs, second thought, or perhaps and if we must, we must expose even our family members who are involved in such crimes so that we can make our Modern Singapore safe and fellow Singaporeans safe and can sleep soundly and wake up the next day to go to work.

Regards
Andrew Chuah

Hi Andrew

You seem like a very angry man, full of hatred inside you and I did think something might have happened in your life. Don’t you realise that hanging the wrong person, worse a very young person (barely an adult) cannot improve the situation? Because you rightly pointed out, the real evil ones are too powerful (so rich they have the authorities under their payroll). Every parent whether in Spore or elsewhere is still worried about drug abuse and will pray against it. It does not mean we have the death sentence so parents can sleep in peace. I believe you do not have children yet.

You have a good education (first class degree), and you have your mum around from 12. You do not need to bow down to your brother as you can stand on your own two feet. People like Yong did not and have no means of making ends meet. A bad-dy came along and provided the opportunity of keeping him alive. Your circumstance is entirely different from Yong’s, so you cannot judge Yong using your own circumstances and call for his execution as with all the other criminals.

Shut your eyes and feel for a moment what it is like to leave home at 12, with no mum or dad, no education and making a living for yourself in the big wide world.

“if we must, we must expose even our family members who are involved in such crimes ”

Not to indulge madmen and propagandists but …

Hi Andrew, whats ur bro’s name? If you cant name him, you are either a IMH patient or not telling the truth.

9/12/09

Hi No.25

Good to hear from you again….you can go to Penang and find out yourself (everyone knows who is he ie the richest man).

I understand it is hard to do it but you have not gone through hell like I have done so and my former only brother is a scum which must be brought to the law and put behind bars for good and the world will be much safer without these people-where got own dad has to knell down to him to seek forgiveness and slapped by him (on many occassions and shouted like a dog, mind you my dad was a retired Associate Professor of Physics, Universiti Sains Malaysia, Penang). Worse, he had asked me to do likewise ie knell down and seek forgiveness from him….why must I he is a scum and a criminal breaking every laws in Malaysia and all the authorities under his payrolls).

Regards
Andrew Chuah

I agree with Andrew. The law is quite clear. And in this case, the evidence is also quite clear.

We must remember that drug smuggling is one of the most easy to prove type of criminal case – you carry a certain amount of drugs on you, that’s it.

I was in London just a couple of weeks ago, and I heard a different perspective on this issue. I spoke to someone whose two sisters – both heroine addicts – died from a contaminated batch of heroine that they shared. He said that if people knew how much damage drugs caused, they would understand why some countries like Singapore have such draconian laws.

In your haste to make a victim out of Yong, don’t forget the real victims. The real shame is on those who forgive the criminals and ignore their victims.

Andrew,

Why don’t you state your brother’s full name, IC no. and whereabouts since you are so passionate about protecting society from people like him?

To: Philip & Andrew Chuah,

So, should we hang drug abusers as well?

After all, if there are no demands, then there will be no need for supply.

And if death penalty can deter drug traffickers, surely they can deter drug abusers as well, right?

Your answers, please.

And by the way, why don’t we hang people and companies which sell cigarettes? Why don’t we hang smokers?

Cigarettes kill more people than drugs – at least in S’pore! Or heck may as well kill hawkers who sell unhealthy food and contribute to the number one killer in Singapore – colon cancer and what not.

Kill them all – if we go by your logic.

As I said earlier…………..

Such a funny set of reasoning by those who supports the death penalty as a deterrent.

Ok, let me put it very very simply:

If:

Death Penalty for Traffickers = Deterrence = Less Traffickers = Safer Singapore,

Then shouldn’t it also be:

Death Penalty for Drug Addicts = Deterrence = Less Abusers = Safer Singapore.

And:

Death Penalty for Cigarettes Smokers = Deterrence = Less Smokers = Less Deaths.

Death Penalty for Cigarettes Sellers = Deterrence = Less Smokers = Less Deaths.

So, the question is:

Why is the death penalty not applied to drug abusers and cigarette smokers and sellers?

And oh, just a little-known fact:

There are more teens smoking than there are teens using drugs in Singapore!

FOR YOUR INFORMATION!.

As Marx once said, laws and punishments are the capitalist and elites’ tools to control and expand their grip of power on a society. Who create such rules? Who benefits from such rules? Why are some things or actions considered unlawful here and not elsewhere?

Please do not be blinded by the government’s explanation that this punishment are to deter others from abusing drugs. Like others have commented, there is no co-relation between the two. Death penalty should be abolished. We never know if a man is truly innocent or guilty, and if we do, that is the minority of cases. There are other ways to deter drug abusers and punish traffickers than by hanging.

Andrew,

Sometimes I read your comments, I scratch my head and wonder, are u high?

Here comes the “Marxist Conspiracy Part II”. Please moderator exercise your common sense and remove the above government planted comment. To all activists, be prepared to go to jail under ISA as before. If the judges manage some legal jujitsu in Mr Yong’s case, would they face the same fate as Francis Seow? Ah the good old days.

I am an ardent anti-communist, I dont give what a s*** what Marx says, not even USA hangs drug traffickers in Ronald Regan’s presidency, as to how efficacious the death penalty is as a deterrence should be determined by empirical numbers, not ideology. Go read Richard Posner’s “Economic Analysis of Law” instead.

6) commentator on December 8th, 2009 7.54 pm
If the one convicted of drug trafficking is your family member or relative, will you still say the same thing?

Who in the world says the same thing if it is a family member/relative (assuming the said person cares for the family/relative) who committed a crime, REGARDLESS of the crime?
What is the point of your question then?

As fae pointed out in #13, don’t use personal experience to argue for something… which is essentially your tack. i.e make it into a ‘personal experience’ and then argue for it.

11) SYN on December 8th, 2009 11.44 pm
Fortunately, TOC opened up this issue, explores it, and surfaces other viewpoints to this topic. This led me to stop blindly believing what a few persons in power or the mainstream media want us to simply believe (blindly).

yes.. but you seemed to have ignored the view from another angle. i.e why do people still support death penalty AFTER TOC has opened up the issue? Does that make people who still believe DP to be ‘blind’?

To be sure, I could ‘accuse’ YOU of being the blind one, who goes wherever others lead. But then, we’d be slinging mud at each other to no effect.

35)

Have you read anything written by Marx? I am not a communist and communism uses certain ideology of Marx to their own gain and twist it to form their own concept. Just because I quoted Marx does not mean it has to be a communist thingy. Please.

Marx was vehemently anti capitalist and anti elitism. My comment has nothing to say that I support communism in it. I hope you will read more thoroughly next time.Thanks

15) fae on December 9th, 2009 12.11 pm
And why do you think the PM of Singapore today does not go out and seize the assets of all the druglords in Singapore?

lack of evidence?

The CNB (Central Narcotics Bureau) and the SG government surely know who and where the local druglords are – why, the son of international heroin king Lo Hsing Han has an office in the CBD area! So why does our PM not do what you suggest?

Very interesting statement…. why do you think that CNB ’surely know’ the druglords?

It’s even more interesting (weird) that you bring up Lo Hsing Han as an example.

IF he is still a druglord (not saying whether he is one way or the other, just an assumption), it would mean that he has NOT changed for the better. i.e an example of people who didn’t changed and continued to ‘damage’ the world with drugs. In short, this becomes an argument to HAVE the DP.

IF he is not a druglord, ironically, he then becomes an example of how after being let go (after being sentenced to death), one CAN change. i.e an example which Yong could follow.

So which is it? Your assumptions can’t possibly work both ways, you know? Do you want Lo to be a druglord or not?

Stop spamming the comments.

“Have you read anything written by Marx?”

No I have NOT read Marx’s THESIS on economics because history has proven that Capitalism has triumphed. End of story. As to “elitism”, capitalism is supposed to weed out the incompetent failures, not bail them out or give them multi-million salaries.

Funny Mao Tze Tung is sometimes quoted by USA Republicans. Does that make them closet Maoists? The sophist logic employed by some people.

lobo76

I think we must make a distinction between drug lords and runners in the case of Yong.

I agree drug lords are scums of society i.e. they gain wealth at the demise of others. Very rarely we hear drug lords being sentenced due to various reasons being lack of evidence or because of the wealth that they possess, they hold considerable power and thus can be quite influential. To them, this is a lifestyle and more often than not they are unrepentant and unlikely to change.

Runners, as in Yong, are those we hear being nabbed for trying to smuggle drugs into the countries. They are the ones who do the dirty works and highly at risked of being caught. To the drug lords, these runners are expendible commodities that they sometime do away with easily by killing them themselves. Such runners may or may not know what they are doing but more often than not, they are doing it because they have little or no choice. Thus, there is the need to look at such runners at a case by case basis. Some are even tricked or threatened in doing smuggling jobs.

But Singapore associated heavily with the drug trades too! Look at Burma! And our hospitals get their heroin…u know..where ? Hehe.

Who knows, if the local druglord is actually our gov itself lol…or those in charge of the drugs.

But anyway, death penalty is a nono. You can end up killing the wrong person. If u kill the wrong person, the PM of singapore must pay with his life! Cos he supported it! A life for an life!

“history has proven that Capitalism has triumphed. End of story. As to “elitism”, capitalism is supposed to weed out the incompetent failures, not bail them out or give them multi-million salaries.”

the emotional human element will always come into play. and who is to say that there aren’t some influential bias elements in the allocation of important resources under the coattail of capitalism.

history has also proven the powerful influential forces have always screwed the their lesser compatriots in the name of all sorts of ‘isms’.

the word ’supposed’ will be conveniently thrown away once it does not go the way it should go as far as the powerful forces are concerned.

Reply to 38) lobo76

“Very interesting statement…. why do you think that CNB ’surely know’ the druglords?”

Ask any ex-CNB officer who’s a family friend of yours.

I bring up Lo as an example only because Andrew Chuah talked about ‘cleaning the country of drugs’ if he is PM. I wanted to tell him that’s not possible because of the amount of wealth, power and influence drug lords like Lo have.

And that is to further the case that even if he supports the death penalty as some sort of “social cure”, it will never be effective because the drug lords will be scott free. And they are the ones at the root of the problem because they will continue producing tons and tons of heroin in countries like Burma.
So which is it? Your assumptions can’t possibly work both ways, you know? Do you want Lo to be a druglord or not?

What happen to the question for Andrew Chua’s brother details??? I am sure with the new CM Mr.Lim in charge of   Penang well known for his Mr. Clean image, putting Andrew’s brother or even destroying his network would be his top priority.