Wednesday, December 30, 2009 14:11
MM Lee’s interview with NatGeo – transcript
In Main Stories • 6,912 views • 99 Comments
Transcript of Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew’s interview with Mark Jacobson from National Geographic on 6 July 2009.
Q: “I don’t think you’d be dazzled but this is what they give when they interview a big shot.”
Mr Lee: “Okay. Barbara Poulson, she’s the CEO, owner?”
Q: “She’s the editor. The writers don’t deal with the CEO. The writers go economy class.”
Mr Lee: “Thank you.”
Q: “It was interesting. The thing about National Geographic is the joke but it’s not really a joke, I guess, the photographers go business class and the writers go economy class. I never cared for that very much myself.”
Mr Lee: “The writers go by economy class.”
Q: “The photographers go business class.”
Mr Lee: “They’d get tired. They don’t have, what do you call it, DVD?”
Q: “No, you can watch it. In the airplane, the DVD is about this close to your face, so you can’t really move very much. It’s sort of like sitting in the first row of the movie theatre. So actually I’ve interviewed Presidents and I was born in 1948, there’ve been 10-12 American Presidents. They come and they go. But I’ve never interviewed anybody who has stayed the length that you have. It’s like interviewing George Washington and Thomas Jefferson rolled up into one, so it’s kind of nice.”
Mr Lee: “It was one of these cataclysmic moments in history when empires dissolved and invading armies came in and lorded it over us for three-and-a-half years, in this case the Japanese Imperial army who were quite brutal and then the Communists who were armed to fight the Japanese, made a bid for power. So after all that, we came through as the Communists would call it the crucible of fire.”
Q: “The crucible of fire. In your book, you said that the three years of Japanese Occupation were the most, probably the most important years of your life. Do you feel that way, do you still feel that way?”
Mr Lee: “Yes, of course. First, I was in my late teens, they captured Singapore in February 1942. I was 18-plus and they didn’t leave until 1945 when I was 21-plus.”
Q: “Those are significant years in anybody’s life.”
Mr Lee: “So I was Chinese male, tall and they were going for people like me because this was the centre for the collection of ethnic Chinese donations to Chungking to fight the Japanese. So when they came in, they were out to punish us. So they slaughtered 50,000, well the numbers estimate go up to about 90,000 but I think verifiable numbers would be about 50,000. And just randomly but for a stroke of fortune, I would have been one of them.”
Q: “Well, 1945 seems to be a, if you look back over history, 1945 was a cataclysmic year for humanity in general. You see difference between the combination of the detonation of the atom bomb and the discovery of the Nazi camps. So at that point, tell me what you think? It seems that humanity began to stop thinking of itself as made in the image of the creator so maybe it weren’t so wonderful.”
Mr Lee: “I don’t think I ever started off with that hypothesis or that basis. I always thought that humanity was animal-like and that Confucian theory was Man can be improved. I’m not sure it can be but it can trained, it can be disciplined. I’m not sure you can actually change the character of a man but you can discipline him and make him, you make a left-hander write with his right hand but you can’t really change his natural born instincts to use his left hand. But a Confucianist belief Man is perfectible which is an optimistic belief.”
Q: “I would say so.”
Mr Lee: “And there are many American sociologists who also would like to prove that to be correct, the latest one being the professor who has done some research insists why ethnic Jews and Asians and West Indian Blacks do so well in America and they came to the conclusion that’s because they emphasised upbringing and education.”
Q: “Actually, I went to the University of California at Berkley back in the 1960s and early 70s, I never graduated, then I went back and finished my degree in 2004 to show my children their father wasn’t a bum and it was interesting to see how the demographic composition of US, that’s the number one public college in the United States. It was like half of the graduating class was Asians and it was interesting and it made me feel like I would never have gotten there.”
Mr Lee: “Most of the Asians settled in California because of the climate.”
Q: “It was sort of striking because you feel like, what you’re saying is interesting because it’s like some people seem to thrive in certain environments and some people don’t, I don’t know why.”
Mr Lee: “Well, we’ve got ethnic Chinese and ethnic Indians here. The settled ones have become less hard-driving and hard-striving and we’ve got recent migrants, they are hungry, they’re determined to succeed having uprooted themselves and they’re doing better.”
Q: “Is that okay? Is that fine, I mean?”
Mr Lee: “No it worries the old citizens. They say look this is fierce competition, my children won’t be getting the scholarships because they’re doing well in schools, they push their children very hard. In fact, they need no pushing. They come here from China with no English language and they know that without English, they won’t get along. So there are many cases of boys and girls aged 12, 13 who come into our secondary schools and by the time, they finish the schools, they top the class in English.”
Q: “That’s interesting, it’s like my grandparents came to New York. When they came in, they don’t speak English and they did great. They just really tried hard and made a life for themselves and I think after a number of generations, it’s very difficult to keep that kind of drive up.”
Mr Lee: “Of course, of course.”
Q: “Do you think that’s inevitable or do you think that people just get lazy or what?”
Mr Lee: “No, I think the spurs are not stuck on your hinds. They are part of the herd, why-go-faster? But when you’re lagging behind, you must go faster to catch up with the herd. I’m quite sure that there are children of the migrants who strive arduously. When they grow up in the same schools as the Singaporeans, the same playing fields, same environment and they begin to adopt Singaporean habits in the ways of living and thinking. So I’m quite sure they’d become like us. Well, because we’re shrinking in our population, our fertility ratio is about 1.29.
Q: “I actually wanted to ask you about that.”
Mr Lee: ”So it’s a worrying factor. So we’ll need a constant inflow but we’re a small population, so we get the inflow and we get the inflow from the educated end of the population, both Indians and Chinese and they’ve got surplus populations. Well, I won’t say surplus but they’ve got huge population, huge numbers.”
Q: “They have people to spare, that’s for sure.”
Mr Lee: “No and they’ve got fierce competition there, so when they come here, higher standards of living for the time being, better social environment with jobs.”
Q: “What would you say the parents of the second or third generation of Singaporeans and their children are not able to compete with the new people? How do you tell them?”
Mr Lee: “We tell them look they have got to work harder or they’ll become stupid. It’s just that they don’t see the point of it. Why race when you can canter and save your energy and do other things? Art, ballet, sports whereas these new migrants, they spend all their time slogging away in the library or at home.”
Q: “You’re not saying that arts, sports and ballet are not important, are you?”
Mr Lee: “No, I’m not saying they are not important but an inordinate amount of time is spent on extra-curricular activities.”
Q: “I told my son if you stop playing basketball, you do better on these tests but I like playing basketball. I said, well.”
Mr Lee: “Well, I think it’s an inevitable evolution of any society and therefore, a regular inflow of migrants without too huge a deluge will keep that society on its toes.”
Q: “You have 25 per cent here of people who are expatriates. Is that too much?”
Mr Lee: “Well, there’s a little discomfort in some areas because in some areas, they seem to congregate, the new ones. The Indians somehow find the East Coast congenial. They concentrate there, so they become very obvious. The Chinese are more scattered, not so obvious except in the food courts where they are doing the hard work because Chinese cooks from China are willing to work for $1,000 less a month and they’re just as good. So the employer looks for them.”
Q: “Well suppose, if you were the owner of a restaurant and you were going to hire a chef.”
Mr Lee: “I’d choose the best chef.”
Q: “You’d chose the best chef. It wouldn’t make a difference how much you have to pay.”
Mr Lee: “Well, because the customer will make up for any difference. I mean, good chefs are difficult to come by. That’s as simple as that.”
Q: “The talent.”
Mr Lee: “It’s the taste buds, your nostrils, sense of colour, et cetera.”
Q: “We ate dinner at Iggys, somewhere at the Regency Hotel. He was telling us, we were eating the food and he’s sitting there watching us eat which is so disconcerting I have got to say and he was explaining how they put together each dish. It was like listening to a painter telling you.”
Mr Lee: “Yes, they make it an art.”
Q: “It was an art form.”
Mr Lee: “It’s not only just food. It’s presentation, it’s for the eyes, for the smell, for the texture and so on.”
Q: “You have a favourite food hawker?”
Mr Lee: “I can’t go.”
Q: “Or is it really too good to say?”
Mr Lee: “Well, I can’t go anymore because so many people want to shake my hands and I become a distraction, I can’t really get down to my food.”
Q: “So can you have take-out?”
Mr Lee: “Well, that’s not quite the same. I tend to go to restaurants when I go out and I try restaurants with a quiet corner where I can sneak in and sneak out with my friends and not have a crowd wanting to shake hands with me.”
Q: “One of the things that I did when I came, I’ve been here about two weeks, and I know I have this interview with you. So they say what are you doing in Singapore? I say well, I’m going to interview the MM and they said, oh yeah. I said well, what would you ask him if you have a chance and people have a lot of question. So I have integrated my questions with their questions.”
Mr Lee: “That’s all right.”
Q: “I thought probably you would appreciate that.”
Mr Lee: “I’m 85 coming on to 86 this September. I’ve had many eggs thrown at me.”
Q: “One thing that really struck me, coming from an American perspective is how much people, as much as they may seem to complain, they obviously feel a sense of home here and they love this place and this is their home and whatever problems they may have with whatever, that love of it comes through which I don’t think the people really in a place like America can really appreciate that. In America, what do they know about Singapore? They know it has an exotic name, the chewing gum and the guy that got caned. That’s it. And one of my missions here is to kind of like explode certain mythologies that people might have about this place.”
Mr Lee: “Well, the Americans who’ve been here and done business, stayed here especially, if you ask them, they produced, the Americans get together and help each other, so they produced a book for new commerce, new entrants. So every three, four years they change and they give out all the eccentricities of the Singapore society, where do you get good food, what you have to watch out for, where they give you a bum rap and so on. And I think high on the list is the clean environment, no graffiti, safe personally, health et cetera, clean air, clean water and clean food except for some isolated cases and a safe environment for their children. I mean, where can you go out and jog at three o’clock in the morning and nothing happens? I think you can see them. You’re staying at the marina around there?”
Q: “I’m staying at Merchant Court.”
Mr Lee: “Merchant Court? Opposite?”
YY: “In fact, just next to Clarke Quay.”
Mr Lee: “Yes, yes. You can. Nobody has been mugged, nobody has been raped. The crime rate is the lowest in Southeast Asia because we have a fairly disciplined population. Everybody is educated, nobody, there are a few dropouts who go in for glue sniffing and drugs and so on but we keep the numbers down and we rescue as much of them as we can. But the social delinquency rate amongst young people is at a minimum.”
Q: “One thing that struck me is how you never see a policeman. I live in New York and I see police, cops all the time.”
Mr Lee: “You have got to show your presence to scare people, I mean, that I’m around. But in Singapore, we’ve got what you call neighbourhood police, that they are stationed in the neighbourhood. There’s a little neighbourhood post for each precinct and they stay there for two, three, even four years, so they get to know everybody there. So any stranger comes in they know and they become friends with the neighbourhood. So apart from the occasional round in a car, they make sure that houses are properly locked up and not left open inviting thieves.”
Q: “It’s not necessary to be driving around with the search light and all of the stuff like that. That’s the way it is in most places, really. This is a law abiding society in general.”
Mr Lee: “Well, it’s the education in the schools and at home partly because we’re such a densely populated kind of buildings, all high rises, so you have got to develop habits which are considerate to your neighbours. If you have loud blaring noise going through the walls, partition walls to the neighbours, they’ll soon complain to the the neighbourhood police or somebody will come up to say will you tone your volume down because you’re waking up the neighbourhood. And they learn to accommodate each other because we don’t allow our ethnic groups to choose to live together. When they are resettled, they have got to ballot for their neighbours, so you get Malays, Indians, Chinese all shuffled around together when in the first generation, they used to sell and relocate themselves, so we have quotas and no precinct should have more than this quota of the population. So in other words, we bring about an integration by spreading them which means we spread them in the schools too.”
Q: “And it’s worked.”
Mr Lee: “It’s worked. And so we have a more homogenous and more homogenous in the sense that they haven’t changed their religions, the Malays are still Muslims and they go to the mosques every Friday and they’ve slightly different habits. The influence from the Middle East has made them have head-dresses for no rhyme or reason.”
Q: “Actually, it’s an interesting question that just came up recently that I was going to ask you about. I know that you put a premium on racial harmony and religious harmony and it’s actually more or less legislated here, right?”
Mr Lee: “Yes, because you can have enormous trouble once religions clash.”
Q: “Well, the two things I’ve been interested to ask you about that because I agree with you is number one, the recent rise of Evangelical Christians in Singapore.”
Mr Lee: “As a result of American efforts.”
Q: “I don’t know if it’s American efforts but I went to the New Creation Church and you might as well have been in Tennessee , it was exactly the same. As soon as you walked through the door, it was exactly the same but it seemed very popular. Is that a new monkey (?) ranch in there?”
Mr Lee: “No, I don’t think so. You see most Chinese here are Buddhists or Taoist ancestor worshippers, I’m one of them, so it is a tolerant society, it says whatever you want to believe in, you go ahead. And these youngsters, the educated ones, Western-educated especially, now they are all English-educated, their mother tongue is the second language. Therefore, they begin to read Western books and Western culture and so on and then the Internet. So they begin to question like in Korea that what is this mumbo-jumbo, the ancestors and so on? The dead have gone, they’re praying before this altar and asking for their blessings and then they have got groups, Christian groups who go out and evangelize. They catch them in their teens, in their late teens when they’re malleable and open to suggestions and then they become very fervent evangelists themselves. My granddaughter is one of them. She’s now 28. My wife used to tell her look, don’t go for any more of these titles, just look for MRS. It’s just around the corner, God will arrange it.”
Q: “Well, in the US, as you say, it’s import from the US or an export. These people have been very politically active.”
Mr Lee: “Well, they know here that if you get politically active, you will incite the Buddhist, the Taoist, the Muslims, the Hindus and others to do similar response. We used to teach in the schools in the 1980s to get back some moral values as a result of Westernisation, Confucian culture as a subject in itself for the Chinese whereupon the Malays, the Indians and so on, they reacted. They wanted not Confucian culture, they wanted their religion, so we decided we’ll stop this. So we took the concepts of Confucianism and put it into civic subject, that society is more important than the individual, that the individual must care for the society and the interests of the society must take precedence over the individual, which is contrary to the American or Western system which says the individual trumps everything, freedom trumps everything, freedom of speech, freedom of whatever you tolerate even at the expense of making others feel inconvenient. If I don’t like abortion, you’re a doctor who aborts people, I shoot you.”
Q: “That may happen, that’s valid I think there is a rather large emphasis on individual autonomy in Western cultures that is sometimes detrimental to the larger society. But that’s the way you’re brought up, that’s what we’re used to, so it becomes….”
Mr Lee: “No, it’s the philosophy of society you start with. You get all the Kantian theories and the Rousseau and so on, so gradually it evolved and then along comes Maddox and Jefferson’s the right to happiness of the society and so on. So it’s an optimistic sort of approach to life. The Chinese start off with a completely different end of the stick that all men are born the same and you have got to educate them and perfect them, otherwise, they will not improve. So they put a lot of emphasis on upbringing at home and in the schools. Well, we’re losing part of it because the Chinese schools have disappeared. We’re trying to preserve it or introduce it into the English speaking schools but the teachers now are also educated in English speaking schools and have lost the old traditions. So they’re trying to get them to go to China and see how they preserve these qualities. But we find that in the cities, they’re also changing.”
Q: “So when, don’t take this the wrong way, but when you decided to close the Chinese stream education and the college, what was the rationale behind that and do you ever regret doing that?”
Mr Lee: “No, I regret not doing it faster because politically, if there’d been a violent electoral protest in the next elections because they’re so wedded to the idea that language means, culture means, life means everything. But I’m a pragmatist and you can’t make a living with the Chinese language in Singapore. The first duty of the government is to be able to feed its people, to feed its people in a little island. There’s no hinterland and no farming, you have got to trade and you have got to do something to get people buy your goods or services or get people to come here and manufacture themselves, export, ready-made markets and multinationals which I stumbled on when I went to Harvard for a term in 1968 and I said oh, this could solve my unemployment problem. So we brought the semiconductors factories here and one started, the whole herd came and we became a vast centre for production of computers and computer peripherals. But they all speak English, multinationals from Japan, Europe, whatever European country they come from, they speak English. So Chinese-educated were losing out and they were disgruntled because they got the poorer jobs and lesser pay. So eventually our own Members of Parliament were Chinese-educated and graduates from the Chinese university said okay, we have got do something. We’re ruining these people’s careers. By that time, the university was also losing its good students and getting bum students. Because they took in poor students, they graduated them on lower marks and so the degree became valueless. So when you apply for a job with a Chinese university degree, you hide your degree and produce your school certificate. So I tried to change it from within, the Education Minister was Chinese-educated and English-educated to convert it from within because most of the teachers have American PhDs. So they did their thesis in English but they’ve forgotten their English as they’ve been teaching in Chinese, so it couldn’t be done. So I merged them with the English speaking university. Great unhappiness and dislocation for the first few years but when they graduated, we put it to them do you want your old university degree or you want English university degree? All opted for the English university degree. That settled it.”
Q: “In recent events as China begins to ascend, I mean, would you?”
Mr Lee: “No, no. It makes no difference. We are not going to tie ourselves to China to the extent it makes us hostage. I mean, we have many investments there because the older generation are Chinese-educated, they feel comfortable but the younger generation, they have enough Chinese who want to go there and do business and they can ramp it up if you want because once you are able to listen and speak and read without writing, you can pick it up. And not everybody wants to go there and we’ve been offering scholarships to their top universities, Beijing, Qinghua, Hudan, very few takers. They say nah, I want to go to America or Britain because they know they’re coming back here and competing in English.”
Q: “Do you think that, I mean, one question I wanted to ask you was building a country from scratch is obviously an enormous achievement, accomplishment.”
Mr lee: “No, it’s not a nation. It’s a society in transition. You need a few hundred years to build a nation.”
Q: “Oh really?”
Mr Lee: “Yes.”
Q: “You have a lot of countries running around claiming they’re nations. You don’t think they really are nations?”
Mr Lee: “Well, we make them say the national pledge and sing the national anthem but suppose we have a famine, will your Malay neighbour give you the last few grains of rice or will she share it with her family or fellow Muslim or vice versa?”
Q: “Depends on the person, doesn’t it? No, it doesn’t?”
Mr Lee: “No, I think there comes a time, I read a book by Edward Wilson who was Harvard.”
Q: “I know who he is.”
Mr Lee: “And he wrote about human beings.”
Q: “Actual past ones.”
Mr Lee: “And he described the Maoris. So when two tribes were fighting, the third tribe will come and see which tribe is more our side, more genes like us and they joined that side. So it’s an instinct. Can you overcome that instinct? Edward Wilson says culture can overcome because he’s American, he knows a mix of Europeans and others. But it takes many, many years. Yes, they all do the military service, equal treatment, equal pay, equal hardship, job opportunities but we live in concentric circles. Cross marriages, yes a few, usually the parents are most unhappy. Then where do you belong, the children of the cross marriages? Sometimes they get reabsorbed in their father ethnic group and they carry the father’s surname. Sometimes, if you become a Muslim then whether you’re male or female, you join the other side. But it has happened to the margins more and more. But I think the instinct, the human instinct is still there. I mean, it’s in America.”
Q: “I live in New York which is similar to Singapore in a way.”
Mr Lee: “No, I mean, I used to talk to an Indian. He was the administrator of Agra and we were driving back to Delhi. This was in the late 1970s. So he was telling me he was writing a thesis on Shakespeare, a highly-educated man. At that time, English-educated, that generation. So I said, supposing I pretend as a caste, supposing I pretend I’m a Brahmin, high caste and I invite you to dinner, he said yeah I’ll come. You give me a good dinner, I’ll come. Now supposing I want to marry your daughter? He says that’s different. The most thorough inquiries will be made. So I said supposing I tell you I came from Calcutta and how you’re going to find me. He says no, you’ve got to live somewhere in Calcutta, you must have your family, your neighbours, your friends in Calcutta, we’ll find out. Then we’ll know what caste you belong to.”
Q: “So as long as you have enough human trail people will figure out who you are.”
Mr Lee: “Yes, and in Japan, they do it a different way. They exclude the Chinese and the Koreans who have been there for generations. They’re still not Japanese citizens. Some had become since the West started criticizing them because you may have a Japanese name and you speak perfect Japanese, but for promotions, where is your home village? Never mind, I come from Tokyo, Osaka or Kobe. No where is your home domicile and they will trace you there.”
Q: “So what you’re saying now is this somewhat contradictory to the programme that you have here where you have the quotas? It’s really human nature, the people hang out with their own kind. Can you legislate that? Can you do anything about that?”
Mr Lee: “It takes times. You can have a certain, as I said, concentric circles. They overlap at the outer circles. You start with your family, your relatives, your immediate friends and then your school friends and other friends in the outer fringe. In the outer circles, you have common ground but you can even invite them into your home and visit each other on festive occasions and so on but when it comes to marriage and becoming part of the family, that’s a very different happiness.”
Q: “Is it, will it be your goal to break down those barriers or it’s not worth doing, it’s just a waste of time?”
Mr Lee: “I think we just leave it alone.”
Q: “You just leave it alone.”
Mr Lee: “You try to break it down, you’re going to cause a lot of unhappiness and the older generation vote solidly against.”
Q: “As Singapore moves along, I mean, answer me this question, who has the hardest job?”
Mr Lee: “Hardest job?”
Q: “You or your son?”
Mr Lee: “It’s to keep going at the same pace, same quality of governance at all levels, more integrated. I mean not assimilated but more integrated, more easy to get along with each other, a more cohesive society and a better-educated society at all levels, not just the few at the top at universities or polytechnics. Even the dropouts now we’re putting them into technical institutes where they learn hands-on preparing engines, electrical equipment and so on in a fairly splendid surroundings because otherwise the old trade schools, they’ll say ah, already you’re a failure. But now they go into air-conditioned buildings looking the same like polytechnics. You don’t feel shy about being seen there. You come out with a certificate and if you make the grade, they will go up one step to the polytechnic where you’ll learn nearly a degree status and if you do well in the polytechnic, you go on to university.”
Q: “Do you think that the world is more complicated now than it was when you were a young man, when you were in the 1960s when Singapore first became independent?”
Mr Lee: “Of course, I mean everyday is more globalised and more complicated. You look at this swine virus. In the old days, it’d have died in the village where the Mexican got it. He wouldn’t have been traveling to Mexico City. Now it goes to Mexico City, it infects people there, within 24 hours, it’s around the world.”
Q: “That’s one thing I want to ask. As the country moves along, we won’t call it a nation, as the country moves along…”
Mr Lee: “It’s a nation in the making. The optimistic view. We must have optimism.”
Q: “Absolutely or else why bother to get up in the morning?”
YY: “Mark, MM has another appointment if you want to spare two minutes.”
Mr Lee: “I give you 45 minutes, you carry on.”
Q: “Carry on?”
Mr Lee: “Yeah, yeah, it’s all right. If you’ve come all the way two weeks, I can postpone my appointment later.”
Q: “I appreciate that very much. But I will stick to only the questions I have.”
Mr Lee: “No, when you say you spent two weeks here, that means you’re doing a serious piece.”
Q: “It’s a serious piece and also as I told you, I’m very anxious to give a realistic portrayal of the place that people have a lot of illusions about. So therefore, I want to find out really what’s going on. Let’s ask you a question about Singapore. One of the things that people say about Singapore is it’s too, life is too easy here. People have lost their curiosity and that’s the problem. How do you respond to that?”
Mr Lee: “No, I don’t think that is so much.., that’s a stereotype view. If they’ve lost their curiosity, they wouldn’t be striving so hard to get to university, to travel abroad, to go to higher education institutes abroad, to learn higher skills. I mean, I’m undergoing physiotherapy because I had a fall on the bicycle, so I’m stuck there for one hour talking to the physiotherapist and she’s upgrading herself, she’s done her training here. Her next stage is to go to Australia and get a degree in physiotherapy. I said is the hospital sending you? She said no, I’m paying on my own. I said will you get a pay rise when you come back? She said no but my chances of promotion will be there. So you see it’s not that they have lost the curiosity. I mean, they’re prepared to spend two years in Perth or Brisbane or Sydney. That’s where they get the most physiotherapists because their children are great sportsmen.”
Q: “It’s truly they keep on driving their motorcycles into the wall and then they get up and say, let’s do it again.”
Mr Lee: “So there is this curiosity to find out about the world and it’s affecting how they live. I mean, she was 32-years-old. I said are you married. She said no. I said you shouldn’t leave it too late. She said well, I haven’t found the right person. I said how is that? you are meeting fellow nurses, you better join, you have got a social development unit where you meet men above board, they are looking for spouses, you are looking for spouses and you meet in groups, unless you decide we are friends, and you want to cultivate a closer relation, and she said no, no, no, I’m a Christian, that limits my choice to 20 per cent of the population and we meet in Church.”
Q: ”Do you feel a complacency among the people here?”
Mr Lee: ”No, a complacency in the sense that their expectations are high and they expect their expectations to be met. But they want higher and higher opportunities, more and more opportunities.”
Q: ”Why does Singapore have to be number one in everything? Why can’t you just be one of the ten great cities of Asia? What’s wrong with that idea?”
Mr Lee: ”If we don’t strive to be number one, you won’t be number ten. You will be number ten. You try to be number one, you might be number two or number three. Do your best. You don’t have to be number one but do your best and try to be number one. That’s our attitude. Look, we have got no natural resources, we have got nothing except human beings in a small strategic location.”
Q: ”You have got a good location.”
Mr Lee: ”But you must have people with training, with skills, well-organized, disciplined and productive. I mean so if we didn’t have an efficient port, we wouldn’t be the biggest container port in the world. Where are the container TEUs from? We are not a big manufacturing China centre, they are from China, they are from Europe or Japan, but they transit through to Singapore because that’s where they come in and six hours before they are in, they telegraph what containers they want removed, where they are.”
Q: ”I was there, I was very impressed. It was pretty cool.”
Mr Lee: ”So they arrive, immediately work starts, cleared, loaded, off they go in four or five, six hours depending on the number of containers.”
Q: ”Do you use a personal computer?”
Mr Lee: ”Yes, I do.”
Q: ”And do you are really up on this stuff?”
Mr Lee: ”Well otherwise I’m out of the loop. I used to correct my copies and fax it back. Then I find the young ministers are all correcting each other’s copies on the net. So I decided I better learn this or I’ll be out of it altogether.”
Q: ”What do you think really the overall effect that the internet is going to be in the general sense and especially in a government like the one that you have here where suddenly like there is this degree of personal freedom as given to people by using the internet and a lot of this stuff on the internet is not stuff you really want your children to see for instance.”
Mr Lee: ”What can you do?”
Q: “What can you do? Is that the answer?”
Mr Lee: ”You have got to decide as the Chinese have decided that they have to take the risk and they try to minimize the risk and censor this and censor that.”
Q: ”Do you approve that?”
Mr Lee: “No, but we cannot censor it because you just go to some server outside and you have got access, so it’s a waste of time.”
Q : “And also no matter what you do, you are not going to be able to, these hacker guys, you can’t beat them.”
Mr Lee: ”You have got to leave it to the parents and the schoolteachers and peer groups, to say look don’t waste your time doing this.”
Q: ”One thing that puzzles in Singapore is actually a very interesting place because of different paradoxes I find in this country. What would be, forgive me if this a little bit on the lewd side, why would you ban Playboy for instance and allow prostitution?”
Mr Lee: ”We banned Playboy in the 1960s when it was a different world in a different standard. It is still banned, that’s all. I mean why do you want buy Playboy now if you can go into the internet? You get more than what you get in Playboy, that’s that.”
Q: “I’m not going to ask you if you looked at it recently.”
Mr Lee: ”No, you can’t, I mean it’s not possible. It’s part of the globalized village we live in and we have got to learn to adapt and live a sufficiently wholesome life to succeed. If you become addicted to all this porn and drugs and gambling on the net, then you are finished. I mean in Korea, they have become addicts at this.”
Q: ”I think that there is a lot of addiction in that, yes, there’s no doubt about it. Speaking of that, so what made you decide to have these casinos?”
Mr Lee: ”When I was a student in England, the only casino in Europe was in Monaco.”
Q: ”I remember that.”
Mr Lee: ”The younger ministers have said look, we must have a casino, otherwise, we are out of the circuit of this fast set that goes around the world, with F1 and so on. And it will increase the tourist trade because the casino will pay for all the shows. Otherwise, the shows are too expensive. So I’ve been resisting it and I’ve told the Prime Minister, I said no, no, don’t do that, you’ll bring mafias here and money laundering and all kinds of crime.”
Q: ”I think it is a definite risk.”
Mr Lee: ”Then I see the British having casinos and Switzerland having casinos. I said God, the world has changed. If I don’t change, we’ll be out of business. So alright, we’ll put up two casinos, so obviously they are not going to target Singaporeans because there are not enough numbers for two casinos. So they got to bring them in from China, India and elsewhere and we have passed legislation to say that any family can ask for a ban on …”
Q: ”A person from that family.”
Mr Lee: ”And the Singaporeans when they go in, they have got to pay $100.”
Q: “That doesn’t sound quite fair.”
Mr Lee: ”No, they are going, driving up to a place called Genting, Star Cruises come in and they go outside the territorial limit and they gamble. So I said you do that because I do not want to be blamed and the Prime Minister doesn’t want, and his Cabinet doesn’t want to be blamed for those who get addicted. And there will be those who will get addicted.”
Q: ”How do you, are you still morally opposed to them or does pragmatism always take precedence in your thinking?”
Mr Lee: ”Well, it is useless to resist when it is everywhere.”
Q: ”Well, the fact that it’s everywhere, maybe it is the reason to resist.”
Mr Lee: “No, you cannot stop it. You want to cut off the internet? You want to cut off your cellphones? You want to cut off satellite TV? Then you will become like Myanmar. It’s not possible.”
Q: “No, thank you. That’s interesting. I hate to be jumping around but I don’t want to take so much of your time. What do you do about this kind of thing? I would assume in a government, it is easier to legislate people having less children than it is to legislate having them more children.”
Mr Lee: ”No, we can’t legislate. We don’t legislate, we just encourage and we say if you have the third child, you will get these benefits.”
Q: ”Well, legislate is the wrong word but …”
Mr Lee: ”We encourage them with incentives. Yeah, we pay for full pay leave, we don’t burden the employer because the employer will then say look I’m not going to employ these women. So the government pays for them, the employer is entitled to two-three months, three months?”
YY: “Four months now.”
Mr Lee: “No, no. Employer two months, we pay two months and it will become six months and so on.”
Q: ”During the 1960s and the 1970s, you ran a programme ‘Two is Enough’. Did the government succeed too well?”
Mr Lee: “No, it has happened all over Asia. It has happened in Hong Kong, it has happened in Korea, they never had this Stop at Two, it has happened in Japan, it is the education that the women and equal job opportunities. Once the women are educated, they have equal job opportunities, some of them earning as much if not more than men, there is a certain independence of choice. I mean they say what’s the hurry? Singlehood is no burden, my daughter is 55, unmarried, mother has been nagging her when she was in her 30s, she’s quite happy.”
Q: ”Do you feel an urge to have more grandchildren or is it.”
Mr Lee: “I’ve got two boys who have got grandchildren but I feel sad for her. Because when my wife is gone and I’m gone, this hotel which keeps her going. She will have to manage it.”
Q: ”I mean the thing is like, occasionally, it seems like the Singapore Government succeeds as I was talking to a gentleman today, he said in India, they propose a lot of things, and fairly high percentage are never going to get done right but in Singapore, things are proposed and you do it. And you finish it. Therefore, if it is a mistake, then you have to redo it.”
Mr Lee: “No, what is the mistake? We can’t undo women’s education, equal job opportunities. But the whole problem springs as I was talking to this physiotherapist, I said suppose you were not educated to a point where you are independent, your mother and father would have got you matched off.”
Q: ”Matched off, what does that mean?”
Mr Lee: “Father and mother will look for another father and mother with an appropriate background, no inherited diseases and similar social affluence and then they marry them off, they get them together and meet and no objections and then you are married. Then you love the man, or you love the woman you marry. But she’s educated and she’s thinking of a degree in physiotherapy and upgrading herself and so…”
Q: ”There is this feeling that you want to keep the society going.”
Mr Lee: “Well, fortunately for us.”
Q: “And reproduction is an important part of that, right?”
Mr Lee: “I’ve been urging them. The only developed societies that have succeeded are Sweden and France and that’s not that they have succeeded, they have just about reached replacement rate. And we’ve studied their incentives and they are enormous. Crèches, full pay leave for husband and wife, nine months and you can extend it and so on and free nurseries, factories and offices have nurseries and feeding rooms for the mothers. We will get to that stage eventually but meanwhile, it takes a long time to change mindsets.”
Q: ”That’s true.”
Mr Lee: “Since we are small population and we can top up, we are topping up. The trouble is the moment they come here, they also have one or two children because they begin to think like Singaporeans. Why? I will lose my chance of promotion. So I’m out of business for six months, nine months, I come back, the others have overtaken me.”
Q: “Well, I think that’s what I’ve heard. A lot of people say like well, foreign workers have come here and they’ve just come to work. That’s what they do, they are here to work, so it’s hard to compete with people who are just don’t have any other distractions. I mean I’ve heard this several times.”
Mr Lee: ”Without them, what will happen to us? We will shrink and eventually, one- and-a-half workers will have to support two parents and is that sustainable?”
Q: “I don’t know, probably not.”
Mr Lee: “Therefore, the one worker will move out rather than pay the heavy taxes. And move out and give remittances to his parents wherever he is.”
Q: ”So, well, this is a question that came up several times when I have been driving around in the taxicab, all I have to do is say “how’s business?” and then you don’t have to say another word. The Singapore people, they just start talking.”
Mr Lee: ”The tourists have gone down.”
Q: ”And they have all these life stories.”
Mr Lee: ”Swine fever and so on.”
Q: ”Then I would say I’m going to see the MM, what would you ask him? And he goes…and one thing did come up which is not, I don’t mean to…one of the things he said well, he’s the father but he should let us go. Then with words like as a patriarch of the country, is there a point in which you should step away because the perception is I guess that I know what you really do, but the perception is that you are still the face of the country.”
Mr Lee: “Well, no, that’s a public perception which is not held by those in the know. I mean all the top executives know that they are dealing with the ministers and the decisions are made by the ministers. My job is really as a long-range radar to look out for opportunities and for threats. So I can sit down and talk to you because I have got nothing urgent in my tray.”
Q: ”I’m glad to hear that.”
Mr Lee: ”I cannot work at that old pace. I can work with subjects that require contemplation, time, which really is backed up by my experience and my feel of how things will develop.”
Q: ”Well, nobody knows Singapore better than you.”
Mr Lee: “I mean, I guess, supposing I had not intervened in the casino debate, the religious groups would fought tooth and nail to stop it and the Prime Minister and his Cabinet were in a lot of trouble, so I stood up and said look, I understand the views, I was of the same view but I’ll tell you the reason why I have changed my mind and that had a calming effect because if you don’t do this, you are not going to be part of the modern world. Either you accept that this is part of today’s globalized world and you have F1 and all this glitzy events, closed roads, light up the city and so on, or you are out of business. And in Singapore, if you are out of business, you are out of food.”
Q: ”Singapore is always been about business. They say in America, business of America’s business, I think it’s true here too, right?”
Mr Lee: ”It has to be. Otherwise, we won’t survive.”
Q: ”When you look out the window, and you see all these big buildings, is this what you envision? Is this the world that you hoped to be?”
Mr Lee: “After we were booted out from Malaysia, before Malaysia or during Malaysia, we thought we’ll grow together as a commercial centre of the federation, the capital being Kuala Lumpur, like Washington, we’ll be a kind of New York. But once we were out on our own, I studied what happened to Malta, Gibraltar, all the island colonies and Hongkong and I thought we were in a similar position to Hongkong, so I knew that high-rises will be inevitable. And Hongkong is all economy, they have packed all of them together in a little piece of flat land across the Bay, across the harbour, and very few houses up on the hills, on the peak, because that’s where the British overlords used to stay and moreover it’s costly because they have got to have retaining walls otherwise, you have landslides and so on. So we decided we’ll have to spread out over the whole island and have high density living but with lots of green spaces and room for recreation and breathing space. The school I was at was the best school in Singapore, Raffles Institution, now we have Raffles City, four big high rises designed by I M Paye. But what’s the choice? It’s a prime site, so the school has now got spanking new buildings, where is it now? Bishan which is near Bishan Park but it has lost, but that old school we thought, I thought about it hard and it was made of bricks and mortar and boards, so they keep it going in a tropical climate, prone to white ants, will be a very expensive business. So I said let’s give up.”
Q: ”I mean one of the things, what is the value of past place like Singapore? Several people actually use the same metaphor, it’s interesting, I have two movies in my head, I have the movie of the world that I grew up in, and I have the movie of the way things are now. One in my head is getting very frayed of the past and I’m sure you know what I’m talking about.”
Mr Lee: ”I used to cycle to school. Empty roads, when it rains, I have got to have a raincoat. Now it’s just not done, with all these huge buses and cars, so my grandchildren are advised not to travel by bicycles. London has lost a lot of its ancient buildings but it’s got enough solid buildings of stone like St Paul’s Cathedral or Westminster Abbey or the Houses of Parliament which are very costly to maintain and they keep that as icons. Well, also the Oxbridge Colleges, they are very uncomfortable to live in, I mean you want a brand name, you try and get there but choose a nice new building annex that they have built, if you are put into one of the old rooms, then you are cold and it’s several centuries old.”
Q: ”I mean they didn’t have central heating then.”
Mr Lee: ”Now, they have put in some central heating, I mean they are piped.”
Q: ”Never so cold as I was in London.”
Mr Lee: “But that’s a trade off. So we keep a few along the riverside and amongst the better buildings which are worth preserving because it’s not so expensive and they are also architecturally interesting. So there are few landmarks. In my own constituency, I’ve got two streets which have been kept up and the rest have just gone high rise but they have been kept up and used for other purposes, no longer domestic but boutique restaurants, studios and so on. Otherwise, you can’t justify the economic costs of maintaining them.”
Q: ”As you get older, do you get more sentimental?”
Mr Lee: “Sorry.”
Q: “As you get older, do you feel more sentimental and nostalgic or do you manage to avoid that? I mean I know you are a pragmatist.”
Mr Lee: “No, it was a nice leisurely place, large spaces, I would travel along what is called now Mountbatten Road, used to be called Grove Road and there was a swamp on one side and now we have all built up areas, it was an airport, now the airport is gone, the British flying boats used to land on the river which I remember. I mean look, do you want to, if we were the size of let’s say the US, lots of empty spaces, then you might be able to keep more of it. But I see New York hasn’t kept much of it either.”
Q: ”Well, it’s a mix. In Manhattan, it’s true.”
Mr Lee: ”You have kept the churches because they are made of stone.”
Q: ”The Empire State Building is still there.”
Mr Lee: “But the Empire State Building now looks tacky compared to the others….”
Q: “It looks great!”
Mr Lee: “It looks old fashioned.”
Q: ”Well, the view, I mean the Chrysler Building is a work of art. Most of the buildings they’ve built since then are not works of art.”
Mr Lee: “That’s what you think but the architects. Their grandchildren would say what a wonderful architect that was. I mean aesthetic taste varies with each generation.”
Q: ”I don’t know. I think there’s a kind of, did you see that building, a picture from China and the building just fell over. I know you don’t have that kind of construction processes here.”
Mr Lee: ”You see the Chinese are nouveou riche and the contractors want to be part of the nouveou riche, so they …”
Q: ”I mean how does it feel if you were living in a building next door, I feel I have got to move.”
Mr Lee: ”They are in a very fast transition and they see their neighbours getting very wealthy and they say I must get wealthy too because my children, the money that I have got a house, got a car and so on. So they take these shortcuts at the expense of public safety. Bridges have fallen down, when they built this enormous barrage up the Yangtze River and the Three Gorges, Jiu Rongji had a very hard time knocking heads together. It’s the process of getting rich in transition and watching your neighbours get rich and you say I must get there too quick or I lose my opportunities. That’s that.”
Q: ”I don’t want to take more of your time. Let me just ask you a couple more things. How would you like to be remembered?”
Mr Lee: ”I don’t think I can decide that. I live my life in accordance to what I think is worth doing. I never wanted to be in politics. I wanted to be a lawyer and make a good living, to be a good advocate but I was thrown into it as a result of all these political earthquakes that took place. So I was saddled with the responsibility and I just have to be responsible to get the place going. That’s all and I mean we’ve got here and I can’t decide what posterity is going to do. I studied law and in the law, the British said you can will yourself, you can will your property, the longest you can do it is life and lives in being and 21 years thereafter. After that, you can’t control your trust. So in my case, I can’t go that long. All I can do is to make sure that when I leave, the institutions are good, sound, clean, efficient and there’s a government in place which knows what it has got to do and is looking for a successive government of quality. That’s all I can do.”
Q: “If you were to leave the stage in the larger sense, and say in ten years, I think you are seen as a cult figure as you have just said about the casino thing, I mean does it have to be somebody like you to keep the place going or …”
Mr Lee: “No, I mean look America got going long after Jefferson, George Washington and all that.”
Q: ”But I think …(indistinct)… who did big things.”
Mr Lee: ”Nobody, Charles de Gaulle says nobody, I am not indestructible. When I read his biography, I read in English, and he said that, I said that is a wise man. So I remembered that and I know that come a certain time, and I didn’t expect to live so long either, it’s just good medicine and good surgery that has kept me here.”
Q: ”We used to have a joke, if I knew I was going to live this long, I would have taken better care of myself.”
Mr Lee: “Well, it so happened and I just do what I think I can contribute to make the place, to consolidate what has been gained and it can still go to waste. It can still spiral down.”
Q: ”Through no fault of anybody’s?”
Mr Lee: ”Look, I once had to make an impromptu speech in Sydney, I’ve just come from New Zealand. So in the end they said no speech, no speeches and the Premier of the state made a very well-prepared speech so I had to respond. So what do I say off the cuff? I said I’ve just come from New Zealand and I’ll tell you what my thoughts were. In 100 years from now, I go back to New Zealand and there will be the grass, the sheep, the cows, the tornados or hurricanes at Wellington, and there will always be this green pleasant place and not industrially developed because it’s the last stop in the bus line and in 100 years from today, I’m not sure that there’ll be a Singapore. It depends on what my successors do. I mean that’s the cards we were handed. So it’s not up to me. What is up to me is make sure the place is ticking, make sure the institutions are there, the systems are in place, make sure there is a government that is fit for the job and then it is up to them to ensure continuity. That’s that.”
Q: ”Do you feel satisfied that that’s moving along quite well? Or do you worry?”
Mr Lee: “I think for the next ten years, with this team in charge, it is going to be fine. Whether they will do well for the next 10-15 years depends on whether they get a younger team in place, well imbibed into the methods of the government, integrity, ability, and making decisions for the public good, and not for your personal benefit. That’s all. It is difficult because it means sacrificing privacy and sacrificing pay. Now we solved the pay problem or semi-solved it by giving them 80 per cent of the average of six major salary earners.”
Q: “Is that how you arrived at it?”
Mr Lee: “Yeah, but we are always lagging behind because whenever there’s a downturn, we don’t give the rise. Whenever there’s an upturn, the private sectors goes up, shoots up suddenly and we can’t keep pace because the public says no, this is too much.”
Q: ”Well, when people are getting US$16 billion bonuses for bringing the country into the ground, it is hard to keep up.”
Mr Lee: ”I was once asked about the enormous, the best paid ministers in the world. I said you should look at the wives. The lowest-paid ministers have wives who are glittering with jewels and with big mansions.”
Q: ”So that means they are corrupt.”
Mr Lee: ”No, I didn’t say that.”
Q: “That was pretty way to be said.”
Mr Lee: ”But it’s true. So Singaporeans have to decide. Do you want to underpay a minister and you have the kind of shenanigans as you have in the British Parliament? You know they repair their homes in the country and in London and charge it to their account. Or you pay them a proper wage and said after that, look after everything. Nobody gets any special perks. That’s your salary, you buy your car, you do what everything is yours. Official entertainment, you have got an expense account. Your secretary monitors it and audits channel clears it. So everything is above board and the public knows that. So whatever they grumble, they know that they are not being shortchanged.”
Q: “There are grumbles but there are always grumbles.”
Mr Lee: “There must be. Singaporeans are champion grumblers.”
Q: “Thank you so much.
Related posts:
99 Comments
south china sea
Mee Hum
>> I can’t go anymore because so many people want to shake my hands
LOL..no wonder i don’t see my MP also
lockeliberal
Well done TOC
Poitical SalesMaN
The Japanese slaughter 50,000 people, they accountable for it.
Your policy “STOP AT TWO” motive to “Murder & Slaughter” 1/2Million of the “Innocent & Defencless” foetue, That’s Singapore last lost Generation. U have not gut to accountable it.
Utopia
““We tell them look they have got to work harder or they’ll become stupid””
So LKY is talking about himself too. That explain why LKY is so stupid because he is not working at all but giving forecasting at his leisure. LKY is so stupid to lost more than $100 billions of state asset through GIC and TH, and so stupid not to see through his own foolish policies and nonsense. LKY is even more stupid than those who is working because LKY don’t have to work and the rest have to work for a living.
“Mr Lee: “There must be. Singaporeans are champion grumblers.””
Old fart, you yourself is the greatest potential grumbler of all, and the only difference is that before you start grumbling yourself, you quickly pass law, PayAndPay policies and nonsense at the expense of citizens.
hoyyo6
after 50 years of iron fist rule on sg, hey why is the old fart not experiencing karma of any sort? no dictator last for 50 years after all the wrongdoings inflict on us..
Is it coming soon?
lolwut
“..not have a crowd wanting to shake hands with me.”
what? or to protest against you?
rubbish in rubbish out
First they shoot themselves in the foot …then they put their foot in their mouth…
Guess where my foot will be up at this coming election?
wat?
karma will come. might not happen to you… but it may happen to your progeny.
andrew leung
Mr Lee: “Yes, yes. You can. Nobody has been mugged, nobody has been raped. The crime rate is the lowest in Southeast Asia because we have a fairly disciplined population. Everybody is educated, nobody, there are a few dropouts who go in for glue sniffing and drugs and so on but we keep the numbers down and we rescue as much of them as we can. But the social delinquency rate amongst young people is at a minimum.”
- Untruths.
Mr lee: “No, it’s not a nation. It’s a society in transition. You need a few hundred years to build a nation.”
- Just die and we will be a nation.
Q: “There are grumbles but there are always grumbles.”
Mr Lee: “There must be. Singaporeans are champion grumblers.”
MM Lee is champion pimp.
singaporeobserver
“suppose we have a famine, will your Malay neighbour give you the last few grains of rice or will she share it with her family or fellow Muslim or vice versa”
has any Buddhist leader in Thailand ever asked that about Thai Malays?
has any Hindu leader in India ever asked that about Indian Muslims?
has any Buddhist leader in Srilanka ever asked that about their Sinhalese, Malay or Tamil Muslims?
has any Palestinian Christian leader ever asked that about Palestinian Muslims?
has any Buddhist leader in Burma, Laos, Cambodia ever asked this about their Muslims?
has any Christian leader in African countries ever asked this about their Muslims?
only in a country like the great Singapore do you see a Chinese leader asking such questions. this is also an opinion that most Singaporean chinese hold.
well let me ask,given the experience of LKY,
in the case of an occupation by a Japanese army that killed say 50,000 Chinese, will a Baba Chinese join them and work as a translator or defend his people? i know one Baba Chinese who will defect. there will be always some Baba Chinese who will do. but i wont assume every or most Baba Chinese will do.
during that same occupation, how many malays defected to the Japanese? NIL. so going by evidence, there is a greater likelihood a malay will share her rice with her chinese neighbour than a baba.
shamemudgameismyname
[i]Mr Lee: ”I was once asked about the enormous, the best paid ministers in the world. I said you should look at the wives. The lowest-paid ministers have wives who are glittering with jewels and with big mansions.”
Q: ”So that means they are corrupt.”
Mr Lee: ”No, I didn’t say that.”
Q: “That was pretty way to be said.”
[/i]
is that why mrs harrylee owned all the bus company/industrial factories and the law office in which hdb is the ONE and only client?
and perhaps the law on the estates duties removals LAW is part of the DEAL?
dane
Not many people alive today has these qualitiies trained to a high degree: his exposure to the world, intelligence, wisdom with age, and practical political knowledge of 50 over years.
His words do kind of make sense if you took it as a whole. Just wish he would be more humble.
shamemudgameismyname
[i]Q: “The crucible of fire. In your book, you said that the three years of Japanese Occupation were the most, probably the most important years of your life. Do you feel that way, do you still feel that way?”
Mr Lee: “Yes, of course. First, I was in my late teens, they captured Singapore in February 1942. I was 18-plus and they didn’t leave until 1945 when I was 21-plus.”
Q: “Those are significant years in anybody’s life.”
Mr Lee: “So I was Chinese male, tall and they were going for people like me because this was the centre for the collection of ethnic Chinese donations to Chungking to fight the Japanese. So when they came in, they were out to punish us. So they slaughtered 50,000, well the numbers estimate go up to about 90,000 but I think verifiable numbers would be about 50,000. And just randomly but for a stroke of fortune, I would have been one of them.”
[/i]
is that how you were trained to SIAM and survived till today?
everytime when there is a crisis in singapoor whether its SARs or pigflu with h1n1 viruses attack …..you would had left singapore?
you called it a fortune?
i called it an act of COWARDISC…
Utopia
” where I can sneak in and sneak out with my friends and not have a crowd wanting to shake hands with me.””
I know that clown and crowd sound alike, but it is more like Clown is the right word to use in old fart’s case.
” where I can sneak in and sneak out with my friends and not have a clown wanting to shake hands with me.””
Have a clown shake hand to congratulate old fart for losing world’s record hundred of billions ? Who know that those clowns might turn out to be those bankers and FI executives of Merrill Leech, CitiCorpse and other FIs who receive million of money from the very tax-money investment from TH and GIC ? If I am one of those fortunate bankers, I might even kiss Old fart’s toe, and polish his shoe with my tongue …
Utopia
“is that how you were trained to SIAM and survived till today?
everytime when there is a crisis in singapoor whether its SARs or pigflu with h1n1 viruses attack …..you would had left singapore?
you called it a fortune?
i called it an act of COWARDISC…”
Remember those kind of bullshit that show in movie where those government coward leaders run away and giving excuse that they are actually giving opportunity for others to prove themselves worthy of protecting the country against invaders ? Does that resonate with the kind of excuses of PAP popup by coming out measurement against the opp party ?
wakeupearly
Is not LKY shooting his own foot since his PAP party has been spouting the nonsense that Spore citizens have priorities & privlieges versus PRs & non-citizens expats here?
The glaring statement he made was : He said that CCA took up so much time of Sporean students in schools depriving them quality time for studies whereas students from China presumably those PRs & those on student pass swot like mad in the libraries to excel in their studies. And both sets of students are within the same Sporean education system!
So how do China students escape the CCA when every school usually requires secondary & jc students to take up CCA? Why are China students given special privileges to skip CCA? Dear LKY can you answer this!
think harder
” We tell them look they have got to work harder or they’ll become stupid “…..
You are wrong LKY ! They have got to Think Harder or they’ll become stupid,
it’s one reason why so many have been hoodwinked into voting for your PAP.
Vapour Trails for December 30th – harmless? bananas!
[...] MM Lee’s interview with NatGeo – transcript | The Online Citizen. — 3h ago via [...]
RED-man
“Mr Lee: “Well, I can’t go anymore because so many people want to shake my hands and I become a distraction, I can’t really get down to my food”
1) You worry people will throw stones at you more likely.
2) You are surrounded by bodyguard that make it very hard to have your dinner with the human wall covering your sight.
3) You probably also worry people will pass some gems to you when shaking their hand.
RED-man
No rape case in Singapore, but alot of molest cases. Btw old man, the rape case at bukit timah during one of the eve of Chinese new year many years ago had officially become Singapore X-file. So much for our police force competency.
wakeupearly
Folks, the transcript is available from the Spore gahment website lah. Run by yr gahment people at MICA
ronin
“Singaporeans are champion grumblers.”
So S’poreans are nothing but grumblers!!! We are all idiots in the eyes of Higher Mortals.
ronin
Mr Lee: ”But it’s true. So Singaporeans have to decide. Do you want to underpay a minister and you have the kind of shenanigans as you have in the British Parliament? You know they repair their homes in the country and in London and charge it to their account. Or you pay them a proper wage and said after that, look after everything. Nobody gets any special perks. That’s your salary, you buy your car, you do what everything is yours. Official entertainment, you have got an expense account. Your secretary monitors it and audits channel clears it. So everything is above board and the public knows that. So whatever they grumble, they know that they are not being shortchanged.”
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
“Nobody gets special perks”???!!!
The above couldn’t be further from the truth. Check out the positions held by ministers’ relatives/children and relatives/children of senior civil servants.
Cronyism has become very subtle in Sinkapore.
sousuke
“Q: “I don’t know if it’s American efforts but I went to the New Creation Church and you might as well have been in Tennessee , it was exactly the same. As soon as you walked through the door, it was exactly the same but it seemed very popular. Is that a new monkey (?) ranch in there?””
That’s monkey wrench.
http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/throw+a+monkey+wrench+into
jhgahmen
I urge readers to go through LKY’s words in this interview carefully before making comments and taking potshots at him.
ahhyuuseeriyears
“suppose we have a famine, will your Malay neighbour give you the last few grains of rice or will she share it with her family or fellow Muslim or vice versa”
this is a really senseless and irresponsible statement, is he trying to destroy us or what? what’s the point in all of this? that is an obvious personal grudge.
does he wants the malays to think the same think towards other races too?
- suppose we have a famine, will your chinese neighbour give you the last few grains of rice or will she share it with her family or fellow buddhist/christians or vice versa”
and judging by the recent singapore idol unnecessary comments, this is like adding fuel to the fire. seriously, he just wants all of us to fight amongst ourselves so this old fart can come to “save the day”
i refused to fall for this sinister racist card trick.
RED-man
referring to 26) jhgahmen:
Kind enough to enlighten? You mean there is davinci code within MM speech? I think it is very straight forward to most of the people. Lies or simply avoidance of question.
Singaporean
This is worrisome. Many people thought the old captain is still in charge but according to him it seems more like he is resting on the sundeck and once in a while peering out to the horizon to see whether there is an iceberg before going for a rubdown aka physiotherapy below deck. We are sailing into Somalia waters without the old captain!
Habitual pontification makes one lower than pondscum.
Pondscum – someone that you do not like , trust or respect.
Pontificate – to give your opinion about something in a way that shows that you think you are always right – hmm !!! – has he been always right or rather always wrong or lopsided ? ?
Knuts
@dane : What disturbs me is indeed the lack of humility .. also questionable views that our MM still believes in such as “assortive mating” amongst a whole host of others .. lastly it is the price other Singaporeans have had to pay in order that he had the means and position to remain in power to accumulate all that exposure to the world .. like the numerous folks who have been bankrupted due to opposing views, the party’s that have been handicapped due to the skewed reporting by the MSM and the last minute release of election boundaries etc. etc.
Thanks to TOC for sourcing and publishing this transcript!
Arix @UK
#26,
Although your comment is a fresh break from the other comments – which do come close to slander – I nonetheless feel compelled to disagree.
This is … well I did expect MM to be slightly smarter than all this. As many people have pointed out already, he clearly is not, at least in this interview. From the start to the finish, he absolutely disgusts. here are a few salient points:-
“”"
“I don’t think I ever started off with that hypothesis or that basis. I always thought that humanity was animal-like and that Confucian theory was Man can be improved. I’m not sure it can be but it can trained, it can be disciplined. I’m not sure you can actually change the character of a man but you can discipline him and make him, you make a left-hander write with his right hand but you can’t really change his natural born instincts to use his left hand. But a Confucianist belief Man is perfectible which is an optimistic belief.”
“”"
Hmm, it seems that somebody needs to read the Chinese Classics again … although perhaps in this case we shall blame the all-too-imperfect ancestors. Confucius’ philosophy of education is to bring out the good and the wise in all the students (C.ref. “The Great Learning”), not to discipline them until they hurt.
“”"
They wanted not Confucian culture, they wanted their religion, so we decided we’ll stop this. So we took the concepts of Confucianism and put it into civic subject, that society is more important than the individual, that the individual must care for the society and the interests of the society must take precedence over the individual
“”"
So CME really is Confucian Studies cloaked in a neutral-sounding term? Just how deceitful is that to the racial/religious minorities? (Not to mention insulting to Confucius himself!)
“”"
“We tell them look they have got to work harder or they’ll become stupid. It’s just that they don’t see the point of it. Why race when you can canter and save your energy and do other things? Art, ballet, sports whereas these new migrants, they spend all their time slogging away in the library or at home.”
“”"
I am extremely perplexed at how we are to create a vibrant and creative arts scene if we do not allow Singaporeans to indulge in art and ballet. Dancers do not learn their steps by memorizing them from a textbook. Picasso did not memorize mathematical formulas to create his masterpieces. In a similar vein, how do we expect to create an international sporting presence – F1 or otherwise – if our Great Leader is so disdainful of people spending time in sports. Here is the irony about the F1 Singapore Prix: It is run in Singapore by Singaporeans, but yet there are no Singaporeans competing in it.
“”"
Even the dropouts now we’re putting them into technical institutes where they learn hands-on preparing engines, electrical equipment and so on in a fairly splendid surroundings because otherwise the old trade schools, they’ll say ah, already you’re a failure. But now they go into air-conditioned buildings looking the same like polytechnics. You don’t feel shy about being seen there. You come out with a certificate and if you make the grade, they will go up one step to the polytechnic where you’ll learn nearly a degree status and if you do well in the polytechnic, you go on to university.”
“”"
I really doubt that many people see it that way. ITEs are still ITEs, even if the Government renames them to ITECs. The hierarchy is unchanged; just the names. Perhaps MM has been shut up in Oxley Road for too long. He should come out and see what Singapore really is like.
“”"
”Then I see the British having casinos and Switzerland having casinos. I said God, the world has changed. If I don’t change, we’ll be out of business. So alright, we’ll put up two casinos, so obviously they are not going to target Singaporeans because there are not enough numbers for two casinos. So they got to bring them in from China, India and elsewhere and we have passed legislation to say that any family can ask for a ban on …”
“”"
Hmm, MM likes the Free Market, but he has forgotten the main principle of a Free Market: Economic Competition. And in this case, although casinos are “luxury” expenditures, nonetheless the internals are undifferentiated – you would see the same slot machines and roulette tables in every casino. So a casino does not need to target Singaporeans in the way say Disneyland targets family travellers, because Casino games are generic across all nationalities.
Also, since the IRs are essentially a Duopoly, they can engage in market-sharing, informally of course.
Anyhow, MM forgets that even if Singaporeans were not targeted as consumers by the IRs, they are still targeted as workers. And IRs, as MM himself pointed out, bring negative impact on society. Prostitution, for instance, is not merely bad for the families of the people who go to them; it is also bad for the prostitutes and their families as well. And mafia abuse their own members even more than the public.
And of course, the great cake is his belittling of the Empire State Building as “old-fashioned”. That simply shows his disrespect for Americans, and is really shocking. Perhaps we should be reminded that our Merlion is “childish” as well; perhaps MM would call Denmark’s Little Mermaid “childish” as well.
miko
“…will your Malay neighbour give you the last few grains of rice or will she share it with her family or fellow Muslim or vice versa?”
These would be the same Malays who took in Chinese infants to spare them from being killed during the Japanese occupation?
Singapore will be better off when this guy’s antiquated, paranoid, race-obsessed, and increasingly addled mutterings aren’t constantly given center stage. Or when they stop completely.
singaporeobserver
“…will your Malay neighbour give you the last few grains of rice or will she share it with her family or fellow Muslim or vice versa?”
old fart must go around and see how many Malay families adopted Chinese babies and kids that were abandoned during the 1950s and 1960s by extremely poor and desperate Chinese families… they could have dropped them in the rubbish bin… all those malays will give their chinese neighbour their last few grains of rice….
during the race riots, the Malays guarded the lives and property of their Chinese neighbours just as how the Chinese did. The malays and chinese were fighting with those who were not their neighbours and instead from external kampongs. it was reported in ST that a chinese neighbour of a detained JI member told her not to worry about her parents when she went abroad to study and he offered to look after them even though he was part of the supposed JI plot to start war between Singapore Chinese and Malaysian Malays. the same line of story in 50 hear history show, Malays will most certainly give their last strands of rice to their Chinese neighbour. its only those who are not their neighbour that some of the Malays wont.
during world war 2 unlike LKY who defected to the Japanese side, the Malays fought against the Chinese. they could have defected to the Japanese just like LKY. The Malays could have started an alliance with the Japanese and assisted them in killing Chinese and chasing out the Chinese from this country which they consider is their native land while till today the Chinese dont. however the Malays didnt do that. the Malays had few grains of rice just like anyone then who relied on tapiocas. they did share with their chinese neighbours and non-neighbours. maybe LKY didnt see all this as he was busy translating for the Japanese.
he constantly plays up the racial card because he knows the Singapore Chinese population will fall for it since till today they have not learnt how to assimilate with the minorities and instead live with the siege mentality that the minorities will harm them or betray them in trouble times.
Just Curious
Chinese painter once said “Jia Sun Du Si Wai Der” ( in hanyu pinyin a false mountain is crooked )
No painter, however acclaimed, cannot possibly paint the exact replication of photographic equivalent.
A painter will always paint whatever beauty or ugliness on a blank piece of canvas whatever he or she likes.
That is life’s reality.
A Tan
Gd work TOC.
TOC, and all those who upset by LKY’s remarks, chill out. The transcript shows him in a jocular mood. I mean interviewer is from a nature magazine.
Go out and party: if you know how to party.
I suspect you people think you are more “driven” and hard working than the PRC babes he talking abt. And are upset because he doesn’t recognise that.
Ever tot yr negative vibes makes him stronger. Bit like the Seth Lords in “Star Wars” who feed off the anger of their enemies.
Maybe if you ignore him, he will lose his vitality?
hessica
old fart,
Calling someone who work so hard to pay you, your son and your cronies MILLIONS “stupid” is really a very “stupid” thing to do.
Greaseistheword
I thought in today’s Singapore, we no longer treat one another as aliens even we are from different ethnic groups.
Long gone are the days of the racial riots in the 1960s. So why are we still talking about racial segregation right now? Is it really necessary?
Today we are all Singaporeans. Be it whether you are Chinese, Malays, Indians or others – we are all Singaporeans. Over the years, we have happily lived together and have given one another our due respects. The racial l.ine has longed being erased. A good example is the most recent Singapore Idol. Do we care whether the winner is a Malay or Chinese? If he is good – he is good. Be it Malay or others – we respect his talent.
If there is a famine, I don’t care whether you are Chinese Singaporens, Malay Singaporeans, Indian Singaporeans or others. As a Chinese Singaporean, I will not hesitate to share with you my portion.
If someone is fast drowning, I don’t give a damn about his race – I will jump into the water and save him first. Isn’t that part of any human instinct?
Komenos
When is Nat Geo publishing this piece of article in their magazine?
seebeng
LKY says: “Nobody gets any special perks. That’s your salary, you buy your car, you do what everything is yours. Official entertainment, you have got an expense account. Your secretary monitors it and audits channel clears it. So everything is above board and the public knows that. So whatever they grumble, they know that they are not being shortchanged.”
Is that the case in Singapore, Mr Lee Sr? What about your HPL condo scandal in which almost all your family members, including yourself, your wife, your prime minister son and your daughter, were caught with your pants/skirts down? What about the monopoly by your Lee & Lee conveyancing of HDB flats? What about your converting of an SIA plane into a flying hospital to ferry your wife from London?
Can you be accountable for all these?
In your propaganda, you always bluff your way through answering questions from uninformed foreign correspondents. When such glaring misuse of power by you and your close associates are brought up by the locals, you sue them using your compliant judiciary. You control the local media by placing your trusted former deputy prime minister as its head and staff it with ISD operatives to masquerade as reporters and journalists.
You have long turned the Istana as your residence with swimming pool and mini golf course for your pleasure. Are these excesses and abuse of power and money accounted for by your secretary and the “audit channels” that you brag about to a distant Western reporter?
At least we get to read about the excesses by British MPs because the media there is daring enough to report on such misuses. But in Singapore everything is nicely swept under the carpet by your bootlicking mouthpiece.
Legal Eagle
Its quite amusing this comment:
Mr Lee: “Well, I think it’s an inevitable evolution of any society and therefore, a regular inflow of migrants without too huge a deluge will keep that society on its toes.”
He wants migrants to keep the current society on its toes, but yet he doesn’t want opposition members to be elected to keep the ruling party on their toes! A case of one standard for you and another for me?
Enough Lah
“Father and mother will look for another father and mother with an appropriate background, no inherited diseases and similar social affluence and then they marry them off, they get them together and meet and no objections and then you are married.”
A Freudian reference to his own dyslexia and LHL’s second marriage?
CJ
I only have this to say ;
> Stupid people, gets hanged..
> Clever, smart, or bright people, hang themselves..
So, give the man all the rope HE WANTS….
Knuts
@ 35) A Tan on December 31st, 2009 9.54 am :
Ignore him is the last thing Singaporeans should do. We should realise that we all have a stake in and a responsibility towards developing Singapore however we see best .. so speaking up in terms of our own interests, opinions etc. is what should be done and encouraged.
I do agree that we should channel our anger into action though .. I mean that’s what the folks in Star Wars did too right :)
Cardin
It was a very interesting transcript, thank you TOC. I’m amazed at LKY’s experience – he does know a lot and made some appropriate decisions.
But then, he’s not the one sitting at the seat of power [not really], it’s all those incompetent ministers around him that are complacent and don’t think too much about the lower-income group that really screws everything up.
I mean the ideas are great, but the people executing it are just getting greedier and greedier.
If the opposition would preserve the ideals and direction of the current government, I would wholeheartedly vote NOT for PAP. PAP needs a little scaring to get back into shape.
Paul
Business Times (Singapore) May 22, 1996
HEADLINE: Be realistic about level playing field: SM Lee
(SINGAPORE) Senior Minister Lee Kuan Yew yesterday told young
Singaporeans that the government cannot force the private sector to level the
playing field for them.
Addressing the allegation that ministers had an “inside track” on things
like property purchases, Mr Lee said: “There is no way, and I say this with
some sympathy for the young and aspiring professionals or young executives, for them to have the same value to a seller of a product as a well-known figure or
sports star or a TV star.”
In a robust, one-and-a-half-hour speech in Parliament, he said: “Let us be
realistic and not expect that the government can force the private sector to
give you, the professionals, a level playing field. No. It’s their business.
They want to get the best customer that will help them sell their product,
add value.”
It was a fact of life that businessmen would favour some customers over
others and give them special treatment because of who they are.
“I ask all of you to be honest, including Mr Chiam (See Tong). All
ministers who carry weight, all MPs who are popular, you go to a hawker centre. If they gave the other customer one egg, they’ll give you two. Count on it.”
Mr Lee was speaking in a debate on the four condominiums he and Deputy
Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong purchased from Hotel Properties Ltd (HPL). The two ministers gave their accounts of how they came to buy the condos at Nassim Jade and Scotts 28.
Except for BG Lee’s Nassim Jade unit, they both got the same discounts
given to all early buyers under the common practice of discounting adopted by
developers to test-market their projects.
Mr Lee made the point about fair play after two newspaper editors told him
that the fuss over the condo purchases was over equity, not legality. The
common grouse was that ministers, senior civil servants and MPs on the “inside
track” were invited to soft launches, while ordinary folk had to queue.
Mr Lee said while the government could ensure equal treatment for buyers
of HDB flats and executive condominiums, it could not level the private
sector playing field.
He told the House how over the years, people he dealt with -from his
tailor to his shoemaker to multinational Johnson & Johnson which provided
him with a stent for his recent heart operation -had let him get “the inside
track and special treatment”.
“It is a fact of life. There is no way of me having to join a queue to buy
a house, or my wife. All I need do, which I have not done, is to tell my
secretary to ring up Mr Ng Teng Fong or Kwek Leng Joo and say, “I like that
development’. “Even if all the units were sold, they will find one unit for
me, surely. And they will compensate that man with a special price the next
best building that they put up. Or Mr Ng Teng Fong wouldn’t be Mr Ng Teng Fong.
So too Mr Ong Beng Seng.
sloo
I have always found interviews with LKY fascinating – whether its his insightful analysis, inappropriate remarks or scandalous, sometimes insensitive, statements.
Regardless of whether you agree with him or not, I dun think you can deny that he is a thinker of strong analytical skills and amazing intelligence. Whether this talent is put to the politically correct or right use is to be debated. Looking back, one can see that he has certainly geared his abilities to the end he was planning towards.
LKY will leave his mark whether you like him or not. And in the end, it is his work and achievements (right or wrong) that will define his legacy.
Utopia
“Mr Lee: “Well, I think it’s an inevitable evolution of any society and therefore, a regular inflow of migrants without too huge a deluge will keep that society on its toes.””
Using the migrants to keep the true bled singaporeans on the toe economically but not politically. How shrewd and cunning is this fox !
pui
i have no respect for this filthy scumbag puii
Clear eyed
All I can say is that having this interview published in an international magazine will prick the balloon of the myth that he is a legendary and great statesman.
andrew leung
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/print/2010/01/singapore/jacobson-text
The Singapore Solution
How did a sleepy little island transform into a high-tech powerhouse in one generation? It was all in the plan.
By Mark Jacobson
Utopia
Everyone should read about Wen Jia Bao, the highly regard humble premier and compare it to our arrogant self-serving deceptive senile old fart and his bunch of good-for-nothing world’s most expensive idiots.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wen_Jiabao
Talking about Chinese fast economic growth and social justice and fairness Wen Jiabao said: “The speed of the fleet is not determined by the fastest vessel; rather it is determined by the slowest one.”[30]
During 2008 Sichuan Earthquake, Wen’s angry reply to the PLA rescue team about their delays before they boarded the rescue plane:我就一句话,是人民在养你们,你们自己看着办 Translation: I only have one sentence to say: it is the people who kept you fed, so do as you see fit.[31]
一方有难 八方支援 Translation: When one corner of the world is in trouble, the whole world comes to help.
Response to questions by CNN Fareed Zakaria on 23 September 2008: I can also tell you on the Internet in China, you can have access to a lot of postings that are quite critical about the government. It is exactly through reading these critical opinions on the Internet that we try to locate problems and further improve our work. I don’t think a system or a government should fear critical opinions or views. Only by heeding those critical views would it be possible for us to further improve our work and make further progress. I frequently browse the Internet to learn about a situation.[32]
Chinese: 我一直认为群众有权力知道政府在想什么、做什么，并且对政府的政策提出批评意见，政府也需要问政于民、问计于民，推进政务公开和决策的民主化。 Translation: I always thought that people have the right to know what government is planning, and what government is currently working on; and people should have critical opinions towards government policy; government should also listen to the people, and accept suggestions from the people, and improve transparency of policy, and have democracy in government policy making.
Chinese: 我还是想借这个机会，先要感谢农民工兄弟姐妹们，你们为中国的建设，贡献了很大的力量，许多工厂、矿山，一些繁重的岗位，你们常年坚守在那里，城市的高楼大厦是你们盖的，最重、最脏、最累、最危险的活是你们干的。 Translation: I like to take the opportunity, to say thanks to peasants-migrant-workers, who are like our brothers and sisters, who have contributed immensely towards the reconstruction of China; years after years, you work in factories, mines; all those high-rise buildings were built by you; you take in all those most heavy, most dirty, most tiresome, and most dangerous jobs
mice is nice
where is our MM’s constructive criticism? why does he so like to pour scorn on the people who pays his obscene “salary”.
he working or retired? half work half retire, suka suka wan, but still get paid so much, simply defies any reason of logic….
My Views
I would not call it a bashing; a far more appropriate way of describing the MM’s act is “a wake-up call on Singaporeans”.
Just look around, especially over the past 20 or 25 years. That spirit of hard work, never give up, sacrifice for the community, nation before family and self, had long been lost. These were replaced by complacency, calculative, greed, selfish and unabated rising expectations from the nation.
People want high income but expect an unrealistically low cost of living; they demand first class public services but do not want to pay taxes; they do not want to procreate unless the state gives huge baby bonus and world class education at cheap rate. In the 50s, in the 60s and may be in the 70s, no Singaporean would make such demand without feeling shameful.
The import of foreign talents, in a way, could spur local Singaporeans to perform better and remind them how the nation achieved what it has today.
mice is nice
My Views
post #53 on January 1st, 2010 5.05 pm
do most of our ruling elites have the qualities you said were lacking in today”s generation of local youth? please name them, & back it up with examples. what is your opinion of those who fall short of your expectations?
you have a habit of going silent in other articles in TOC. why?
My Views
Refer to (54) by [mice is nice].
“do most of our ruling elites have the qualities you said were lacking”
So you think it is easy job for a minister? They gave up their high-reward-careers to serve their countries without guarantee that they would be elected again in the next term. You worked as a factory worker, you go home after 5 and play with your kids; the ministers do not have such a luxury. Your wife went on strike and refused to cook, you just go to the nearest food court and order what you like to eat; can a minister just do the same?
One more example, an easy way out of getting jobs for Singaporeans is to close door to foreign talents. Can the ministers just do that? No, not when the government is formed by the PAP!
My Views
post #55 on January 1st, 2010 6.08 pm
why cant you give a straight answer?… do they or do they not possess those qualities you mentioned? if so who are they?
dun deviate from the subject. answer them straight then i will answer your question. or are you just going to keep on ranting, like you do in other articles?
Clement Tan
“These were replaced by complacency, calculative, greed, selfish and unabated rising expectations from the nation.”
Best exemplified by the Million dollar Ministers and the bloated civil service from taxpayers in the form of ERP, increases in GST etc…
“They gave up their high-reward-careers to serve their countries without guarantee that they would be elected again in the next term.”
Serve their countries by losing terrorist suspects in custody and billions of dollars by the PM’s wife. You must really hope that Singaporeans have an median IQ of 50.
Clement Tan
You know something this rubbish about not being able to make money if Ministers are booted out is partially true, because of a Winner takes all mentality and the ACTUAL quality of the ministers in Singapore.
Just FYI, in the Western democracies, the incumbent “losers” of an government go on to take lucrative consultancies jobs due to their understanding of governmental processes and their experience; some who are truly capable are recognized for their acumen and hired by the private sector to help their companies; while others who are popular and charismatic go on to make tons of money from speeches.
On that basis, who will hire Ho Ching and WKS and in what capacity? On the other hand, due to the number of adherents LKY has, all he has to do is to make an appearance in Malaysia now and then, they will give their money to listen to him.
RED-man
Quote: myview
///I would not call it a bashing; a far more appropriate way of describing the MM’s act is “a wake-up call on Singaporeans”.///
maybe the next election results would be a wake up call to him and his ministers instead.
////So you think it is easy job for a minister? They gave up their high-reward-careers to serve their countries without guarantee that they would be elected again in the next term.////
yes, it is not easy to be minister in Singapore, as a matter of fact, do a search in YouTube on sleeping Singapore minister in the parliament. You find them trying very hard to fight the “Zzz” monsters during the session. Great, we pay high salary to let them sleep during nation serious discussion! Way to go… (my view)
it is “your view” indeed!
Btw, how do you know our ministers don’t have time with their family? You are working as a maid for them? Or you alway spying on our ministers. Hello, “my view”, don’t tell us what the “Shitty times” brainwash shit to us. Be original and state the facts to substaniate your point! If not, please go fly kite!
RED-man
“my view”
Obviously, you know nuts about factory workers. While manager like us is busy with setting and monitor the KPIs set out for them. They are busy following up on making sure we are within the right track towards the target on daily basis. In case you didn’t know, they have quality, efficiency and safety issues to be mindful of on daily basis.
You think factory workers just go to press button and wow lah the machine just produce?! Machine don’t break down? How you know they have time for their family? They can’t go back until they hit the target. They have to stay back for briefing when KPI target is not ideal. And sometime, stay back for training to ensure better yield for the production.
I think they earn better respect than our ministers. At least they have to work very hard for their bonus by keeping track closely with the KPI set for them. Our minister KPI? GDP? GDP ensure the people don’t lost their job? GDP ensure Mat Silamat won’t escape? GDP ensure GST and the standard of living will not rise?! GDP to ensure foreigners are hired instead of local so that the cost of running is much cheaper? But no garantee in Quality??
Please don’t talk kock and bullshit to people here. You be surprise a lot of commentators here are from all over the industry and field. Ask REACH to sub-con feedback to TOC instead! If the government want to know the truth! But are they ready for the TRUTH!? or simply ignore it for the GDP!
RED-man
In short, “my view”, “youth in White shirt” and “thinktok” your reasoning sucks big time! I would not even call it reasoning, simply repeat what shitty times always want Singapore to believe!
Amazing, LKY can say that Singaporean are stupid and yet he is the one that engineered this outcome by enforcing “two is enough” and intoxicated our news and media to achieve his desired outcome! And yet, he dare to say Singaporean is stupid! If Singaporean is stupid, what make him become as a policy maker?
Can I say my workers is stupid when I have yet to setup my action plan and ensure they are executed correctly in order to reach our desired KPIs?! And blame it on the machine also?
RED-man
Quote: 46) Paul on December 31st, 2009 7.15 pm
Business Times (Singapore) May 22, 1996
HEADLINE: Be realistic about level playing field: SM Lee
While it is truth that certain celebrity or famous people have a dozen of people line-up and their back waiting to lick their boots. It is still the final decision of the receiver whether he/she will receive it or not.
Being the so called Whiter than White man LKY like to paint himself as. He sure know how to set a GOOD example to the younger PAP how to beat the system. So, by LKY definition, there is no corruption any more! Everyone is White clean in this sense. Bravo, this is what people call, mix abit of White with Black to become Grey.
The point is, Paul. It is not about fair play! It is about what LKY want to be and what people will see him as. I don’t know what is the purpose of you showing this articles, but unless you really like LKY think we Singaporean are stupid! It would be equally insulting too your own IQ!
myveryveryBIGview
[i]So you think it is easy job for a minister? They gave up their high-reward-careers to serve their countries without guarantee that they would be elected again in the next term.[/i]
is that why leekuanyew implement the GRC system to guranteed his employment till death do him part? beside his highlLEE overpaid son?
you also tryin to tell us that leekuanyew would still be earnin more than $100,000++ if he leave his mental minister title behind?
who is goin to employ him? YOU or mdm hoching?
myveryveryBIGview
[i]People want high income but expect an unrealistically low cost of living; they demand first class public services but do not want to pay taxes; they do not want to procreate [/i]
wah! very kind of you to justify leekuanyew’s 1 of his so many DEMANDS…
is that why leekuanyew lived and played in the istana as well?
free food..free golfs..free maids..free matas in shortpants…free carS..free parkin..
free erps…free petrol..maybe even free school textbooks for his grandchildrens…
Zefly (aka Joshua Chiang)
“They gave up their high-reward-careers to serve their countries without guarantee that they would be elected again in the next term.”
What a silly thing to say. A single term lasts four-five years. That’s like having earned millions of dollars liao. Suppose some were unelected by the next term (which, I hope would happen) – they would still have much more money than what many people would ever have in their entire lifetime.
Millions of dollars not enough? What do they want? Do they want three meals in a hawker centre, food court or restaurant?
My Views
Refer to (65) by [Zefly (aka Joshua Chiang)].
“A single term lasts four-five years. That’s like having earned millions of dollars liao. Suppose some were unelected by the next term (which, I hope would happen) – they would still have much more money than what many people would ever have in their entire lifetime.”
Had they remained in the private sector instead of joining politics, they would probably earned much more than what they are getting as ministers!
RED-man
Quote from “myview”
///Had they remained in the private sector instead of joining politics, they would probably earned much more than what they are getting as ministers!///
you are damn right, if Wong Kan Seng was to join the private sector, he would be the security chief of some security guard company and that would save him from losing face of letting Mat Selamat from escaping. And Lee Suay See would likely become some HR manager, with his boss tell him to shut up when he proposed cheaper fast and good. His boss will then tell him “who don’t mother is a female”!
You are damn good “myview”, IQ 200 with the negative sign in front. Sigh….
Knuts
@ 66) My Views on January 4th, 2010 3.11 am :
What is really a barrier to entry in local politics imo is the low tolerance for different opinions .. and the near absolute intolerance within the PAP itself of different opinions. It’s easily seen via the control of the MSM, the politicization of pretty much every supposedly non-partisan organ of the state ..
Maybe Singapore is indeed a ‘unique’ and terribly hard country to govern .. just maybe those salaries are justified. But where’s the accountability .. just take a look at the recent past (MSK , Temasek/GIC-Chip Goodyear etc.etc.) .. there are quite a few things that the public deserves to see investigated thoroughly and someone taking responsibility.
The reality is there is no real check or balance .. so it’s anyones guess as to how much better Singapore could be doing or God forbid how worse off than we know Singapore really is. The PAP has been so ’successful’ in terms of years in power not because of some major mandate they’ve been getting election after election .. but because they’ve been shortchanging the whole system of democracy and amending the constituition in their favour time and time again.
RED-man
Now that knits had reminded me, I forgot that if HO Jinx was to join the private sector. She probably will be the fastest losing money investment agent in the Market. She can lost money so far before you can complete saying the word “sucker”
Wow “myview” you really is a person full of insight and coconut juice up there!
rabblerouser
@67
Had they remained in the private sector… then Singapore would have prospered and turned into a 1st world nation, truly a nation for Singaporeans built by Singaporeans.
Likewise by making such generalised sweeping comments, I don’t see why others couldn’t have just uttered similar statements. Since these incidents never have occurred, and we are just basing the comments on logical or mathematical probability. I can’t understand why you can choose to ignore other possibilities.
@55
In school, where there are class monitors and prefects. I do not think it is wise to perpetuate into this system monetary rewards. These positions are ones that are held in high esteem, for it requires a person to do certain duties above and beyond those of a student. I have high respect for these individuals who can do their duties well and this is in absence of monetary rewards. We as students choose these individuals based upon their attributes, talent and work ethics. We did not lure them into these position by paying them money.
Why then is it harder to bring this form of servitude of the students into the political arena? Why is it any different when the schools are, from a sociological standpoint, imprinting the concept of serving the students in the capacity of leaders. Making the ministers lives easier so that they do their very best aside, any form of monetary gain might seem to cast a dubious shadow over their illustrious career.
RED-man
Hey “my views” please share with us more of your “insight” we would like to learn from you. You are as “capable” as YOUR ah kong and his team. So “capable” it almost like we are hearing from them directly.
By the way, if you see lim suay see, please tell him to join the seven moon singer, he can talk cock, but singing sure Kanna throw rotten eggs from the people. Also his singing might wake up the dead you know? We don’t want that to happen, do we???it defeat the purpose of seven moon if he wake the dead up. Thanks
Zefly (aka Joshua Chiang)
“Had they remained in the private sector instead of joining politics, they would probably earned much more than what they are getting as ministers! ”
That’s an ‘if’ and a big ‘if’. Ask the PHD holder who is now a taxi driver.
We’ll never know if the spurs are stuck in our ministers’ hide deep enough for them to be earning more in the private sector. Some of them, based on their performance, would have been fired long ago were they in pte sector.
Please do be less silly in your views.
whoinchargeoftanjongpagarGRC
[i]Had they remained in the private sector instead of joining politics, they would probably earned much more than what they are getting as ministers! [/i]
you meant marboroughtannthe shortleggs and limsiasuayed is bein wellsought after?
wow! by which company?
temasek inc or singapoor tectnologies?
mice is nice
My Views
post #66 on January 4th, 2010 3.11 am
////Had they remained in the private sector instead of joining politics, they would probably earned much more than what they are getting as ministers!////
if all they really want is money, money & more money, leave their current post. S’pore can do without leaders who think about enriching themselves.
David
Mr Lee: “ Singaporeans are champion grumblers.”
Mr Lee grumble the most about Singaporeans and how his ministers were underpaid. So far no leader in the world has ever complained about their own people except senil Mahathir and now I felt so shameful that LKY is following his step. As a matter of fact, Mahathir justified his view because Malaysia was not moving fast enough due to lacking of aspiration in one group of people.
However, the people of Singapore has spur and build Singapore into a strong economy for many decades and do not for heaven sake, deserve to be criticised, by someone who paid himself millions and lose people billions. He should criticise HO JIN and not people who having been paying taxes everyday for their self-serving agenda.
Homegrown
who can deny that the quality of our people depends on the type of education.
and that is in the purview of the government.
if mr lee was trying to criticise singaporeans by passing those unwarranted comments,he must realise that ineffect he was criticising himself?
Samaritan
#53 My Views,
“Just look around, especially over the past 20 or 25 years. That spirit of hard work, never give up, sacrifice for the community, nation before family and self, had long been lost. These were replaced by complacency, calculative, greed, selfish and unabated rising expectations from the nation.”
Well done My Views. You’ve given us a very good description of LKY and our ministers.
'Grumbler'
Guys, no point complaining about it so much and not doing anything about it. If you’re unhappy, act on it when the appropriate occasion arises. and the appropriate occasion is arising in the next year or so……..
ThankYouSir
I salute you, MM Lee Kuan Yew and thank you for bringng up SINGAPORE to what it is today. No human is perfect but your passion for this country has bore fruit to what it is today. God bless you.
Jakarta » Survival of the fittest in Singapore
[...] het artikel kwam Lee nauwelijks aan het woord. Maar hier is het volledige transcript van het interview te vinden. Een vrij inzichtelijk gesprek, met bijvoorbeeld interessante citaten over de onvrede bij [...]
big_onion_says
i am very suprised of all comments. True enough what most of you think. It make sense and logic. Very interesting. Well, It is human nature that anyone who holds great power will do whatever it takes to make it last forever.
But its also because of FEAR of losing something or somebody, Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader!!! And Vader says that IF YOU ARE NOT WITH ME, YOU ARE MY ENEMY! That’s why there are almost no opposition party here or whoever votes for them, their lives will be screwed!!
As a matter of fact, Singaporeans are screwed!! Brainwashed by the government. Making us work harder with lesser pay and they know that the people will need help from them, making these poor Singaporeans indebted to them their whole life and with no choice but to vote for them everytime. Making us dependent on the government for a living and they will appear as the good guys or hero. This is such a dirty game of life. But its happening if you notice it.
I can understand everyone’s concern cause i feel it too. What we need is fairness and rights for ourselves, true SINGAPOREANS. The pace is too fast for most Singaporeans with all cost rising which will increase the standard of living. This is what i feel. Peace out…..
princess
i think as much as some of what MM Lee has said has raised some sort of disagreements with me, like what many has pointed out, i think it is still important that we give him the due credit that he deserves. Without this man, there will be no modern Singapore. Of course, I must say that it is not that I agree with everything that is done, but we must always look at the big picture. maybe we lack the big picture, that’s why we pick on the little details. no matter what, it was a good interview, i think it was very nice and it was an honest sharing by him. (:
ritu
Waaah so many people criticising MMlee. If you see the full spectrum of dictatorships across the world you would have idi Amin/pol pot/mao one one side and MMlee on the other. By the strenght of his personality he transformed Singapore from third world to first world. Most posters like to take that for granted. Myabe they should visit India and China to see how much better off they are.
Ah Siao
@ ritu
“Myabe they should visit India and China to see how much better off they are.”
Why not visit Switzerland or Australia?
What a gyp
Haha typical PAP logic. Other people lost either a arm or a leg in the war so I am lucky that I only lost my fingers.
Jitpun Fighting
……Mr Lee: “And he described the Maoris. So when two tribes were fighting, the third tribe will come and see which tribe is more our side, more genes like us and they joined that side. So it’s an instinct. Can you overcome that instinct? …..
Did Mr. Lee base on the same instinct he mentioned above and decided to work for the cruel Japanese as an interpretor?
The Japanese had more genes like his? Genes of Cruelty?
nonsense
LKY logic= only makes sense to LKY and bootlickers. He’s a lawyer for goodness sake. :)
mon
//Mr Lee: “There must be. Singaporeans are champion grumblers.”
The HKers when they were unhappy, march on the streets.
The south Koreans when they were unhappy, go on strike.
The Taiwanese, wen on so many demonstrations.
They all have more purchasing power than the Singaporeans on average and more retirement monies.
And All four countries are supposedly at the same stage of economic development.
mon
//Mr Lee: ”I was once asked about the enormous, the best paid ministers in the world. I said you should look at the wives. The lowest-paid ministers have wives who are glittering with jewels and with big mansions.”
And the world’s highest paid ministers had a population that has the lowest purchasing power and retirement monies among populations at the same stage of development – economic development.
meaning that these ministers’ pay were funded by the difference in purchasing power and retirement monies.
mon
//Mr Lee: ”But it’s true. So Singaporeans have to decide. Do you want to underpay a minister and you have the kind of shenanigans as you have in the British Parliament? You know they repair their homes in the country and in London and charge it to their account. Or you pay them a proper wage and said after that, look after everything. Nobody gets any special perks. That’s your salary, you buy your car, you do what everything is yours. Official entertainment, you have got an expense account. Your secretary monitors it and audits channel clears it. So everything is above board and the public knows that. So whatever they grumble, they know that they are not being shortchanged.”
That is assuming that nobody complains about the current system of remunerations through various channels under the PAP where ALL the ministers get high pay.
Which we know is false.
Forums every day have comments/complaints about their excesses and incompetence.
Mr LKY is trying to trick the reporter into believing that the populace had no questions on PAP’s remuneration policies. That it was really an exchange of option a over option b.
preston loon
I love it when MMlee says this,i quote
“Well,it is useless to resist when it is everywhere”.Does his statement apply also to the Singapore GLBT community?He further comments and i quote again
“No,you cannot stop it.You want to cut off the internet?You want to cut off your cellphones?You want to cut off the satellite T.V.?Then you will become like Myanmar.It is not possible”.By these statements he made,TOC readers,especially the gays and lesbians you all can come to the conclusion that gayism will be soon be recognized by this secular government.Rejoice and hurray,He or his son will give u the desire of your hearts to have the biggest and the most colorful rainbow parade ever in the world.Our government always want the best.
mon
//My Views
oh yeah, most of the ministers made a loss serving the govt?
that their income would not fluctuate ?
that their policy / governance outcome justify their pay.
I meant: what they are making previously might be justified like they make $1 fixing people’s eyes but they did actually fixed it first before being paid.
What we have now is: we pay they millions to create good policies for Singapore and execute it well but they:
1. lost billions (more than the equivalent of the wealth of Ng Teng Fong) in the reservoirs. We don’t need the opposition to lose monies. By the time, the opposition, PAP would have lost it all.
2. their policies drive property price maddly upwards,
3. massive immigration that deny poor s’poreans an honest chance to make an adequate living,
4. copy opposition’s ideas
5. neglected productivity growth for 15 years,
6. make other countries laugh at our police effectiveness – diplomat case
7. make people homeless
8. mismanaged charity
9. let a limping terrorist run away
10. cause our native population to grey without giving them adequate preparation for retirement despite having high saving rates.
11. arbitrary administration of treatment of Singaporeans in front of the law.
and the list goes on.
I would pay a doctor 20$ provided he cures me. If he didn’t I would not recommend him to people.
Given the cock ups, they don’t deliver and don’t deserve their pay.
mon
//My Views
not possible.
ask yeo chow tong how much he makes now.
mon
// My Views
yeah the old f**ker is giving a wake up call like the way he slapped his minister for law for misinterpreting the reasons for the massive run up in HDB prices.
He is reminding the lawyer that if he doesn’t perform, he could be locked up for no reason for 20 years under ISD or he would have to go back to his law practices.
Let’s see if a 60 year old lawyer can still clock enough to make 2 million a year…
mon
Also, ask all the former PAP MP how much they are making now after they left parliament for more than 5 years.
I don’t know where you got your data to form your sample. it is definitely not representative.
Ask Goh Keng Siu how much he makes now.
He could be a top notch fund manager in London or new york. He could be as wealthy as George soros since they studied in the same school.
He isn’t making any money as near as George sorros did last year.
gemami
Hi My Views,
I am glad that you finally have the courage to engage and I welcome your contributions and comments. I hope the rest of the posters here would accord you the respect for coming to a platform such as TOC to share your mainstream views. I hope you are here to stay. It would have been good of you if you had responded to some of the challenges put forth to you on the other threads.
Anyway, let’s get down to business, and as usual, I would like to respond to your comments and ask a few questions along the way.
“…MM’s act is “a wake-up call on Singaporeans”…
There is no wake up call here. It is just an old record-player playing all the old songs. Go ask anyone contributing their comments here and most would not begrudge MM the credit for setting Singapore in the forward momentum during his governance of Singapore. It is the momentum going haywire after the hand-over of the old guards that most are griping over. If MM does not still see it as a wakeup call for his beloved PAP, then it can only mean that he is blatantly ignoring what must surely arise out of it – to the detriment of those still lend him their support – like your good self.
“…That spirit of hard work, never give up, sacrifice for the community, nation before family and self, had long been lost…”
I have asked you to ponder over this in another thread and it is apparent that you have not done so. I ask again: “Whose fault do you think it is for generations of Singaporeans clamouring to possess the paper qualification at the expense of all these lost qualities?”.
Read the interview again and you will understand by MM’s own words why he found it necessary to shove the population toward what he thought would be best for the people – the paperchase syndrome. Your comments cement the fact that ‘nation before self’ has been overdriven to the cost of these lost qualities.
“…These were replaced by complacency, calculative, greed, selfish and unabated rising expectations from the nation…”
Again, the echo of the MSM. Have you forgotten the pledge of SM GCT when he was PM? He declared that Singaporeans will be better off voting for the PAP as it is the only party that can elevate the lives of Singaporeans, giving them a better quality of life and enjoying life’s pleasures etc. See how we get the blame for wishing this upon ourselves and when things turned for the worst? It is always our fault and it will always be our fault when things don’t turn out well. I think we can write a whole book of adjectives to describe the Singaporean – in the PAP’s context.
“…they do not want to procreate unless the state gives huge baby bonus and world class education at cheap rate. In the 50s, in the 60s and may be in the 70s, no Singaporean would make such demand without feeling shameful…”
See what I mean by Singaporeans getting the blame all the time? Did Singaporeans asked for a baby bonus to procreate? Were Singaporeans the one who demanded unabashedly for such payment?
In case your memory fails you, the baby-bonus thing was offered by then PM GCT to increase birth rate. Like I argued earlier, when it failed to achieve its intended objective, Singaporeans are to take the blame for its failure – forgetting that so many of us out there were laughing at the stupidity of the offer when first heard.
“…The import of foreign talents, in a way, could spur local Singaporeans to perform better and remind them how the nation achieved what it has today…”
This was the rallying call when the first policy of foreign talent was introduced. Unfortunately, the objective of having foreign talents to provide a guiding hand to Singaporeans to become talents themselves is another failed policy. I hope you are not turning a blind eye to the rumblings coming from the government these days and the shift from having the need for foreign talents as compared to the need for cheap foreign labour? How subtle it is to use our grumblings on cheap foreign labour as an excuse for the failed foreign talent policies.
“…So you think it is easy job for a minister?…”
What do you think? Why does one enter politics? To have an easy life? What makes you think the construction worker, or the cleaner’s job is less hard – relative to the worker’s ability? Do we place more emphasis on one who uses the mind over one who uses the hands to determine who works harder?
“…They gave up their high-reward-careers to serve their countries…”
Do they? Lee Hsein Loong, George Yeo, Teo Chee Hean, Lui Tuck Whatever, are just examples of some who were earning no where near what they are earning today.
Everyone knows how much an army general earns compared to how much a top notch PAP minister’s earnings. What is $30,000 a month compared to the millions they are now earning? No, the jobs they gave up were nothing near ‘rewarding’. What they are assured of now is a life of rewards, even if they were to lose in an election.
“…You worked as a factory worker, you go home after 5 and play with your kids; the ministers do not have such a luxury. Your wife went on strike and refused to cook, you just go to the nearest food court and order what you like to eat; can a minister just do the same?…”
You have to be joking! There are so many of them out there taking on more than one job. Do you think they have time to play with their kids or to enjoy their wives’ cooking? Most of the time Maggie Mee would be the main staple for the entire family. Hmm… I wonder when was the last time any of the ministers had a bowl of Maggie Mee? The luxury that the ministers have over these people – they can have a dozen maids to play play with their kids and get caterers to cook their favourite dishes anytime they so liked.
“…One more example, an easy way out of getting jobs for Singaporeans is to close door to foreign talents. Can the ministers just do that?..”
Ha! Ha! Ha! Here goes the foreign talent and foreign worker mix again. Please listen more closely – the gripe is not about foreign talent but the influx of foreign workers of the cheap and untalented sort.
Again , the problem is created by the PAP government. Why push the population toward a better life with promises of the luxuries that come with it when it failed to see that there was going to be a huge gaping hole left on the ground with every Singaporean becoming too talented for the untalented jobs?
This government must stop playing the blame-game once and for all. If there is any blame for our present predicament, it is solely the government’s fault. Period. Playing an old record does not help anymore – and MM’s interview is to be seen as an old man grabbing at old straws for survival in a modern world.
gemami
Well My Views, I seriously hope you are not running away again? I observed that you usually give your views at around 5pm? I’ll be waiting ;)
poster
Frankly guys, there’s no use debating or grumbling about the biggest grumbler.
Why not take some steps to shake up the PAP?
1) Vote for the opposition party (if they sound sane)
2) Bring your skills overseas, to a nicer place! After all, we don’t HAVE to be rooted here.
3) Study overseas, then migrate to that location.
This way, the government has to take steps to keep their citizens, like giving REAL incentives and privileges. Otherwise, Singapore will eventually evolve into a new “nation”, called PRPore.
“We tell them look they have got to work harder or they’ll become stupid”
“the Malays are still Muslims and they go to the mosques every Friday and they’ve slightly different habits. The influence from the Middle East has made them have head-dresses for no rhyme or reason”
” Christian groups who go out and evangelize. They catch them in their teens, in their late teens when they’re malleable and open to suggestions and then they become very fervent evangelists themselves. ”
“Well, we make them say the national pledge and sing the national anthem but suppose we have a famine, will your Malay neighbour give you the last few grains of rice or will she share it with her family or fellow Muslim or vice versa”
“a complacency in the sense that their expectations are high and they expect their expectations to be met. But they want higher and higher opportunities, more and more opportunities.”
“I was once asked about the enormous, the best paid ministers in the world. I said you should look at the wives. The lowest-paid ministers have wives who are glittering with jewels and with big mansions”
“Singaporeans are champion grumblers”