It is a lie that there is no need for a minimum wage.

How can you expect to live in HDB in Singapore if you only make 600 dollars a month?

There is a minimum of living in Singapore.

Therefore, people will only work if the pay exceed that minimum cost.

That minimum cost is in fact very high now.

We haven’t even factor in the opportunity cost.

i think singapore needs to look at japan system, since now we are almost on par with japan on cost of living. remembering japaneses have very high wages, which is very different from singapore.

singapore poor is getting poorer and becoming isolated. the government is thinking of way to replace them with foreigners but this might backfire.

i understand a toilet cleaning auntie made $400 from his initial pay of $350 10 years ago. so she quitted…. because $400 cannot survive. even the ministers upgraded their pay 20 to 30 times. even the ministers set themselves a minimum wage.

i think we need to relook at how this class of citizens can be better managed with some help ie minimum wages.

Besides Mr Kenneth Jeyaratnam, who will give the keynote speech giving his views as an economist on Economic & Labour Policy, the event will also feature Mr Leong Sze Hian as a guest speaker, who will talk about HDB and Housing Policy.

Besides Mr Kenneth Jeyaratnam, who will give the keynote speech giving his views as an economist on Economic & Labour Policy, the event will also feature Mr Leong Sze Hian as a guest speaker, who will talk about HDB and Housing Policy.

Hope the session, and if there is more to come, will have a strong impact and difference at the next elections, from the current pathetic state of the opposition.

How, I don’t know but I just hope only.

#1 is right. There is a need for min wage.

reasons:
1. where do singaporeans live in singapore? there is nothing cheaper than a HDB flat to live in, in singapore. The irony is HDB is not cheap. you cannot expect non-rich to live in a bungalow. ‘live’ as in own the private property. for HDB flats, its about owning a lease, as leaseholder.

The flat prices have gone up tremendously. Foreign labor influx has led to salaries that have not seen much increase over the last decade.

A person with commonsense can tell immediately, something is wrong or does not TALLY.

who lives in a 1room/ 2 room flat? the lowest paid workers basically.

has the flat prices gone up? yes. so much.
has the wages gone up? U tell me.

simple commonsense.

The Jeyaretnams have proven to be great talents :

1.The late JBJ : winner of election. Toughest cookie in history of singapore, imho.
2. KJ : Highly qualified Opposition leader.
3. PJ : Invited by the PSC to contribute his talents

There is hope if we stand behind KJ. This man is the Real Deal.

He has chosen the road least travelled – to serve the Alternative Nation.

RP’s manifesto place much importance on striking a balance between a sustainable economy and a welfare state. this forum is a good chance for members of te public to know more about RP and especially, JBJ’s legacy.

let’s give our opposition parties a chance to prove that they are more capable than PAP.
I will be there to give support.

vote for Change, vote the PAP out!

#6 Whatanapong

You are very right. BUT 66.6% don’t face this problem. And this majority is very good enough for PAP already.

So for the 33% who have low wage problem they need to try hard to become the 66.6%. Because there is no better way, unless you vote with your feet to a better place. In fact this is exactly what foreign talents did when they come to SIngapore.

And don’t bank on the opposition to help you because you will wait long long.

#9,

“You are very right. BUT 66.6% don’t face this problem. And this majority is very good enough for PAP already.”

Not only this 66.6% . Pls factor in the new comers. The total sum has changed.
These are mostly professionals and their dependents if any.
When will native citizens become the minority?
When that day comes, what happens?

Malaysia. My last frontier.

Will someone be there to record his speeches for uploads onto youtube or Reform Party’s website? There are many who are interested but may not be able to attend. To understand the extend of public interest, TOC or reform party can collect opinions online regarding the speech. This is a way to make inroads – however small – against apathy.

#11,
I know, i think you are like many, dont dare to attend.
who can blame u?

It is good to be able to listen to alternative views. But it will only be effective if there is a debate on tv, radio etc.. Else each side is just telling his own story.

But seriously the turnout wouldn’t be good, as per all previous events. We are dead worried on being watch… This fear strikes deep in our heart throughout the years.

Anyway, wish you success.

Hi. I am a Secondary School student.

I like the Reform Party and will be coming with my classmates.My generation are not afraid of the PAP.In fact, a lot of my classmates debate vociferously because the Finance Minister’s son is in our school. Well he is at a Rival school which is Pro PAP like the other school that wears white.We are different.We have a couple of these kids who think their fathers and mothers own this country.

I am sorry the country belongs to Singaporeans.Not the PAP.

Quite incredulous if you ask me that there are actually people afraid to attend forums.And people only wanting to watch the videos online.I urge the Reform Party to not post the videos.

Pardon my french.

It’s about time Singaporeans get some balls.Yes, testicles.Grow some if you can.Or come look for us, we can loan some to you.

I do know for a fact that Singaporeans lose one testicle during NS and another during elections when casting their votes and turn into pussies.Not being sexist or anything.

But come on, all you guys who are in the thousands and who pose anonymously.Pluck some courage.Looks like a bunch of Secondary School boys have to show you the way.We are way too cool to have a cooling period.

I am 15 and I think my friends have more courage than most Singaporeans.Probably because we have yet to be indoctrinated by National Service.I can’t wait to vote and I hope that the voting age gets lowered to 18 as Singaporeans below 18 are the ones who are going to bring change.We have to correct the mistakes of the older generation.

It is sad that the 15 year olds of the country have to step up and lead the country.But we do not have a choice.So if a 21 year old stands for election in the near future, please vote for him as we are running out of adults in Singapore.Maybe one of us might run in the elections after.We are not afraid.

Sorry if I have offended older Singaporeans.But this is a fact.We are overrun by foreigners because the older Singaporeans from the 1960’s did not vote wisely.Barisan Socialis and the political parties from that era till now are also at fault to have this silly old traditional mindset.Why can’t you guys just contest all the seats?And bury the hatchet.And keep you ego in check.We learn these basic principles when we play sport, so why can’t you do likewise?

I am proud that my school has done its part by producing opposition leaders.And we will continue to produce opposition leaders.We are and will always be different.Nobody can buy our ideals.We represent Singapore, we represent the Polys, we represent the ITEs and all.We are not elitists and that’s how we are brought up.

Thank god we have the Reform Party.This is the Youth Party of Singapore.So to you oldies and your old methods and ideas, please leave the Reform Party alone and leave it to us Youths to take this country forward.Please come to our school for recruitment day.

We may be young.Our IB students are a cool bunch who think differently.Don’t bother with the all white school.They are rote learners and do not play sport.We have sporting tradition and we play fair.We don’t believe in bending the rules.And we are champions.

Do you know that in JCs and IB Colleges, the foreign students already outnumber the local students.The local students have to fight for a place in the Polys and the ITEs.We should prioritize the education of Singaporeans first.

We have been over liberal.I may get to go to the best JC but I am not really sure whether I will have a place at the local university.All my classmates have this same fear as well.

I hope the Reform Party petitions to lower the age of voting to 18.Or even 16.Because you need our votes to get more representation in Parliament.
And our educators are fans of you guys as well.

Re: Stayala on December 3rd, 2009 10.47 pm

Whether I dare to attend or not is hardly the issue. Having KJ’s speech recorded and available on demand will allow him to reach out to many more, esp since there was hardly any publicity, and many do not know about this until TOC posted.

We should also be mindful that as a result of the present economic policies, many have to work harder to earn a living. Thus, the people who will find KJ’s alternate views most appealing may never get to hear him.

May I ask if you have anything useful to share? What impact did your post make? Is it constructive or insightful? I think not. I hope to read post of substance from you.

Re: The Sportsman on December 4th, , 2009 5.07 am

So have are you going to do and have have you done? You are not even in a position to translate your vision into a vote yet you go around with your chest thumping on behalf of the Reform Party.

Are you aware courageous folks like you (those who can vote) have already decided where their votes go to? You are preaching to the choir here, and as you do so, your baiting on behalf of RP only supports the general public’s impression that opposition supporters are irrational and overly emotional. I refer you to the recent announcement of the cooling off period, how would your baiting help RP’s cause? Its obvious KJ is trying to mold his party image into one of substance. As a supporter, did your post actually helping him win support or lose support?

I appreciate your enthusiasm, but remember, because you cannot vote you need to help convert the undecided to RP’s side. Your method achieves the opposite.

I regard my participation in this election, as a voter, as my last one.
This is because the country seems to be heading to a point of no return. The population has and will change even more .

My view of this country changed.
My view about citizenship changed.
My view about my future changed.

I will back RP all the way.
If i see them , my vote is theirs.
Period.

[...] Infoblogaramous – TOC: Reform Party: Discussion session on Singapore’s economy [...]

#14 The Sportsman,

“Because you need our votes to get more representation in Parliament.”

Well, the Fact is 33.3% citizens wanted Opposition in parliament.
The Fact is 2 opposition member got in. 1 is NCMP.

Does this mean more votes = more representation?
All i can say is More Votes Should mean more Representation.

out of 80plus, 3 are representing the 33.3%. Of course, anyone can also say conveniently that these 33.3% are also represented by the ruling party mp.

Anything can be debated.

The Strange thing is the elections have been based on not even 91% of the voting-age population due to walkover policy.

Who really knows how of ALL Voting-Age citizens would have voted for who?

sidetrack:
How are votes counted?
Could someone provide official info on this process?

sorry for side tracking or digressing. i curious nia.

Hi 14) The Sportsman ,

I am impressed by your zeal and passion but what is your school? What is IB student?

Goh Meng Seng

“He has chosen the road least travelled – to serve the Alternative Nation.”

LOL.

Can’t find a job after HK doesn’t need him anymore. Asked SM Goh for help with testimonial.

Now thinks the recession is a good time to be high paying MP. The half ang moh was not here half his productive lifetime and can’t even speak Chinese, Malay or Tamil. LOL.

Me no easy sucker. I will never vote for such a character.

Hi Roy.

The Sportsman is young and understandably idealistic.You have to admire him and his friends for their courage in posting on this board publicly.It is a fact that Singaporeans have a fear about being associated with the opposition.And it is always good to hear different perspectives.Especially those who are below voting age.We are afterall voting for our and their future.

I have attended debates in schools with my children, nephews and nieces.You would be surprised to hear the well researched arguments against government policies and the proposition team.There was a reason why Mediacorp decided to take the inter school debates off the air.Radicalisation of the youths?Hardly.They were stating facts.Reasoned facts from 16 year olds which defy the logic of the present government.

I don’t understand why the general public would think that Singaporeans who vote opposition are irrational and overly emotional.Are you implying that a third of the population are irrational and overly emotional?I am a professional, I have my business which employs more than a hundred.My siblings are professionals ( teachers, doctor,lawyers.accountant) and will vote for the opposition.Are we irrational?Are we too emotional?

The Sportsman is 15 years old.There is something we all can learn from him and his friends.Let the youths decide where they want to take this country to.

As for us.My family has decided to change sides this coming elections.The cooling off period solidifies our decision to vote for the opposition.We need leaders who have confidence.I am perplexed by PM Lee’s decision to make this announcement in the Caribbean.

My sister teacher and another cousin in the Civil Service have also decided to vote for the opposition this time round.So we do have Civil Servants voting for the opposition.The PAP does not understand that its policies have hurt the non-Elite Singaporeans in general.You are looking at at least 90% of the Population.This elections will go down to the wire.For my family amd extended family.And our neighbours.We have made a pact.We intend to send as many opposition candidates into parliament.It’s just 5 years.We all believe it will be for the better.

After all, we had many gaffes under the current administration.I don’t have to go around influencing people to vote for the opposition.Even my doctor brother’s patients are complaining to him.There are people canvassing without cajole.Majority have already decided.

I live in a walkover area.Tanjong Pagar.Just send a team here and you will be surprised.It’s a myth if the opposition thinks that it cannot win here.It will be a 10% swing on my estimates.MM is rarely in his wards and his MPs are not impressive.

The ball is in the court of the opposition.It is for them to lose.Get a reasonably good slate of candidates.And contest in all wards.They will pick one of you to character assassinate.

And Reform Party.Send a strong signal with a new slew of young and vibrant candidates.You guys will be the surprise package this elections.A Maiden victory is on the cards if you ask me.Continue with the walkabouts.And all the best.

I will be there in spirit.You have my vote.And you have my familes as well.I do not need to convince my clan members to vote for you as well.It’s different this elections.

CK

As for me, I will ensure all my family members vote for the same side.
I also attempting to get my distant relatives to do the same.
Thats all we can do. The rest is up to the old man up there.

Lou Tee Wu Mak is all we pray for.

The next Election After this coming election would be AT LEAST another 5 long years.

C K Lim on December 4th, 2009 2.40 pm

As I have said, I appreciate his enthusiasm. My post is directly referring to Sportsman. I am just trying to let him see that as he tries to help, he may have achieved the opposite. The goals of all opposition supporters(myself included) now is to get more support, adopting a “because you dun support opposition you have no balls” attitude will not sway the any kind of “swing-able” votes to the opposition’s side. In fact I would argue that such attitude will push votes away.

I quote him:

“It’s about time Singaporeans get some balls.Yes, testicles.Grow some if you can.Or come look for us, we can loan some to you.

I do know for a fact that Singaporeans lose one testicle during NS and another during elections when casting their votes and turn into pussies.Not being sexist or anything.”

The above cannot be construed as anything but emotionally charged and irrational.

22) Opportunist on December 4th, 2009 1.48 pm
“LOL.

Can’t find a job after HK doesn’t need him anymore.”

Can you hold a candle to him? You can compare with him?
Can you even compare with him just based on paper qualification alone?
If not, why are you spilling all your nonsense here?

The difference in mentality between those who want to VOTE FOR CHANGE and those who don’t want.

Singaporeans who don’t want change,

Don’t want to rock the boat.
Don’t see that need for oppostion voices.
Don’t see the need to close the income gap.
Don’t see the need to voice out expensive housing.
Don’t see the need to voice out influx of foreigners.
Don’t need to voice policies not in Singaporeans interest.
Don’t see the need for accountability and transparency for organisations/institutions who ‘play’ with taxpayers money.
Only know how to refer to past track record but never fail to see beyond that.
Only know how to quote “Fishing village to modern city” ..and that’s their only supporting line.
They are the worst example of a meritocratic society – look down on someone/country less fortunate.
And most importantly – self interest or just pure cowards who care for their own rice bowls.

Singaporeans who VOTE FOR CHANGE understand that ,

We have achieve so much from a fishing village to and modern city,
We understand that although our ministers are paid million of dollars to implement civil policies, not all were good polices.
We understand that even though ministers make mistakes, they still lack in showing signs of humility.
We understand that a one party state cannot be accountable to it’s own actions and therefore are imploring for more opposition voices in parliment to address issues that have been abandoned or ignored…
HDB, CPF Life, Minimum Wage, Retirement, HDB flats pricing and deficits, Minister Salary, Town Councils Sinking Funds, Temasek Holdings & GIC investment losses, SPH, nepotism, ERP, GST 7%, 133rd, MAs Selamat Kastari…
We want the best for Singapore and Singaporeans and to be a real first world country/city to live in.

WE WANT CHANGE

Hi Roy.

The Sportsman is 15 years old.Nothing wrong with being emotionally charged and acting irrationally at that age.Probably raging hormones.These kids from the sports school are more hyper active than the average Singapore student.

And better expanding it in discourse or on the field than on playing consoles.I am actually quite impressed that they learn about the Barisan Socialis at that age.I don’t think my college going nephews and nieces have heard about Lim Chin Ciong.Or those P65 Singaporeans.

But children are mostly innocent.They are good judge of people.Well there is something they are doing right in the IB programme.They think out of the box.

Should we suppress our feelings?

Roy, have you ever loved?

CK

//Opportunist

Yeah, the half ang moi is not in singapore for half his productive IS the reason to vote him in:

He has not been milking poor Singaporeans to feed his ego like the pigs in parliament.

Kids are reading and contributing to TOC and TR blogs, should oppression be extended to police their thoughts and learning development?

Should education be fear-driven and indoctrination driven?

I say, let the seeds of future germinate and flourish to fullest possible.

Nobody owns this country.

31) Political SalesMaN

Good question man! Here’s another character assasination question…

DO you want to vote a party that practices nepostism ..Father son mother wife sister-in- law..etc ?

Political salesman.You are hell bent on discrediting the Reform Party at every opportunity.First you infiltrate the party,then you send your informants there to create disharmony.What next?

We know who you are really and all the opposition parties have already discredited you.Call yourself an oppo member and go around backstabbing them.And we also know who your paymasters are and also the guys who you sent to infiltrate.

Time to trade in your wheels and get a real motorcycle.Still writing e-mails and pretending to be real?It is getting to easy to track your ISP.You are the new ”Harbans Singh”.

Scooter Man, I’m not any of person being easily bought over. I can said U’re are just an “Blind Man” ! no Principal,just support anyhow. U want to know who is the new Harbans Singh I introduce U to Dr Chee. He has been discrediting the voters & opposition when ever Election is on. Open your eye big. Don fall into boobe trap. Take care.

Dear Political SaleMaN and Scooter Man

As moderator, I urge you two to chill down. I don’t like to censor people in general, so please do me a favour.

Dear Donaldson ,why my two comment has been deleted. If your blog is scare for this comment so don’t open to public. Comment are for public to learn & exchange ideas. P/s post bach for me.

Dear Political SalesMan,

If you want to post potentially defamatory comments, I urge you to do so in your real name. Freedom and responsibility are two sides of the same coin. You cannot do one without the other.

“U’re are just an “Blind Man” ! no Principal,just support anyhow.”

Why say this leh. just support anyhow itself is a principal and strategy leh.
do not play by the rules all the time if it ain’t work, especially the rules keep on magically changing to your disadvantage. ok. now, any blind man here.

“Open your eye big. Don fall into boobe trap. Take care.”

Don’t you think that all along we are in a trap, not booby lah but an open one where it has been drawn around you without you needing to move at all. now what do you think of the cooling period.

“why my two comment has been deleted. If your blog is scare for this comment so don’t open to public. Comment are for public to learn & exchange ideas.”
you are lucky to have one or two comments still here ok.

two comments deleted only ? you made me want to laugh and want to puke onto your face (don’t worry, cyber puke on cyber face lah). you will fare better with MSM lah.

learn & exchange ideas ? I was wondering why you even bothered to say it leh.

what do you think of the cooling period ? to learn & exchange ideas also ? you have to really ask yourself whether all of you really want to let the public learn & exchange ideas …… or to control ideas, yeah just think MSM. yes, very very slowly good good good and righttttttttt, MSM, yes, think MSM.

C K Lim on December 4th, 2009 4.18 pm

Actually I am very impressed with him as well! And I thought by sharing with him how others will perceived him and his post. I am merely trying to guide him. If he truly wants to make a difference as he grows he needs to start working of public relationship skills, and there is not better time than now.

As for suppressing his feelings, I did not ask him to do so. I merely asked if it is his intend to be abrasive and grind the sentiments of swing votes against RP.

Let us be clear here. We are both terribly impress with this kid. I want to make him aware of PR — very important in the field of politics — and I believe he is more than equipped to think and come to this awareness.

My intent is to help him despite not being so.

i’m curious as to what is the agenda for this forum/session. most importantly, i’m tired of “opposition” just trying to criticize or simply say this is no good that is no good.

as i’ve always been saying in my comments on TOC, right now being an armchair critic is not only futile, but dangerous. not that PAP will come down on you, but more because the country and its people need help.

i’m not good with economy and numbers. but i absolutely think we need actual numbers and figures, white papers and proposals about how to:

1) implement minimum wage yet encouraging local companies/enterprises to employ Singaporeans.
– what should the min wage be (per hr pre/post tax)
-> why set it at this rate, what does a 40h week at this rate provide
-> what are the laws governing it? how to not have loopholes to exploit? how should we punish people if they dun observe it?

we can’t compete even at today’s depressed wages, so min wage is going to make it worse. we need a comprehensive system whereby work visas are not given just by paying a $150 levy. That’s way too significant and too cheap.

2) prevent or have stricter laws against exploiting foreign cheap labour.
– how should employers be punished if convicted
– how should foreign workers be protected or seek protection?

as if depressing wages isn’t bad enough, they now figure out how to house them in inhuman conditions and even not paying wages. again, there is no way singaporeans can let them get away with this, hence again, these are “talents” who are favoured over locals.

3) number of foreign skilled/unskilled work visas. Criteria of approval
US has a 65k max each year. there is another quota for masters/phd holders. there is another category for “exceptional” talents (for e.g., if you are maria sharapova, LOL).

I won’t go into the argument whether 65k is enough for US. I think we need actual numbers, as to what talents we need in each area, how many. we can’t just give PR status to a newspaper vendor. (remember that story about how the downturn is creating a queue at ICA? they interviewed a PRC, and he’s applying for PR, his day job is selling newspapers at those vendor shops)

those are local jobs, no question about it. it’s untrue that singaporeans don’t want to work those jobs, the only reason is that wages are so depressed that they can’t pay their mortgage or transportation fares with it.

4) provide financing to kickstart local businesses, and also encourage them to employ locals.

let’s keep a good ratio (say at least 50-50) at these enterprises to qualify for a better financing rate. banks should not just sell out to corporations, there is a duty to support the real local economy. the country and its people are at stake here.

Looks like this is going to be another disappointing political party; surely Singaporeans deserve much better than this?

It is basic economics theory that a system of minimum wage will not improve employees’ living standard. On the contrary, it has the potential of raising unemployment rate further and lowering employees’ income.

What would happen if Singapore adopted a system of minimum wage? You can bet that employers would pay the minimum rate, regardless of productivity or competence. The Reform Party may argue that such an employer would end up losing skilled labour. However, let us not forget that employers can easily employ much more talented people at the same rate from overseas. These are people who have the drive, skills, commitment and positive attitude to contribute to Singapore’s economy.

Alternatively, employers may resort to outsourcing functions to get around with the minimum wage requirement. More jobs would be lost as companies providing the outsourcing services may be based in foreign countries.

It is also no secret that with a system of minimum wage, “black labour market” will exist. Businesses will try ways to hire workers at wages below the minimum level stipulated by law, e.g. paying workers below what is stated in their employment contracts. Workers who are desperate for jobs are more willing to cooperate with unscrupulous employers – because they know that there are many highly skilled foreign workers who are more than happy to assist employers in their cost saving.

41) My views

i tend to agree that minimum wage will hurt Singaporeans generally.
for the same reasons as stated in (41).

What is worse is we create a divide within the working class.
Those who are fortunate to have jobs will have more pay.
But if you are unfortunate to be the one jobless, that is over for you.

Companies tend to have a fixed budget for staff.
Assume it is $1000, the choice is between
(i) Give 100 people $10 each or (ii) Give 50 people $20 (min wage) each.
Legislating min wage does not make the pie bigger.
It just change the distribution of the pie.

Hence, i feel the focus should be on growing the pie.

Interestingly, I had a conversation with an irish couple last week. If you did not know, Ireland is somewhat known as the ‘Singapore’ equivalent in europe. When i mentioned that, they told me that that was not possible- ireland’s unemployment rate was 10% and growing (expected to hit 14% this year). I asked them why is the UE so high and they told me (in their own words) it was because of the high minimum wage set in ireland which raised costs and led to companies leaving ireland.

of course, that was a “commoner’s” perspective. maybe economists have a different opinion on this. plus, it could be also due to sampling.. i just happen to meet someone who is against minimum wage.

but since the reform party is looking at making some informed policy statements, i thought it will be good to point this out, so they can do a more informed study, with due diligence.

after all, this affects us all and we want to make sure we come out with the best way forward, with no regrets in future.

“It is basic economics theory that a system of minimum wage will not improve employees’ living standard.”

Theory is only good if a few basic assumptions are the only parameters that matter and remain true throughout. Real life is more complex than this where theorists sometimes find it expedient to exclude other important parameters as it will make their theory messier and not so neat.

It is not so basic when this theory is put side by side with other matters, easily forgotten when a particular theory is being emphasized, when standards of living is not going to improve where basic wages for work done are not enough to cover basic costs of essentials like food & shelter.

“Alternatively, employers may resort to outsourcing functions to get around with the minimum wage requirement. More jobs would be lost as companies providing the outsourcing services may be based in foreign countries.”

You may want to give appropriate examples of jobs which may be outsourced to other places outside of our country because of minimum wages.

Jobs that command low-wage here like labourers, cleaners, waiters, etc have to reside within the country and cannot be practically outsourced. Most probably, those jobs which can be outsourced because of low wages plus other overall synergistic considerations would have already been done so and, if not already being done, will be done.

“It is also no secret that with a system of minimum wage, “black labour market” will exist. Businesses will try ways to hire workers at wages below the minimum level stipulated by law, e.g. paying workers below what is stated in their employment contracts.”

It just needs one self-interested dissatified worker to blow the whistle with proof and strict enforcement, made much easier in a tight country like ours, to ensure that this does not happen.

Undesirable & illegal acts like drug trafficking, robbery, etc may still happen even if there are laws to curb it and that goes the same for minimum wage policy as far as your concern for “black labour market” goes. That does not take away the fact that certain good policies or laws still need to be there.

[...] Infoblogaramous – AngryAngMo: List Of Singapore Clubs/Bars That Charge For Tap Water! (Please Help) – TOC: Reform Party: Discussion session on Singapore’s economy [...]

#22 Opportunist,
if you dare to be more racist, i hope you get sued soon.
your ip is all over.
hope you not grabbing contents .
Are you? Have you?

Dogs are different. they are honest at least on December 5th, 2009 11.49 am #22

“Opportunist,
if you dare to be more racist, i hope you get sued soon.
your ip is all over.
hope you not grabbing contents .
Are you? Have you? ”

It’s onerous upon TR itself hosting the site to vet and censor whatever it deems improper.
Because the dissidents and sink-a-poors are mainly envious foreigners or ex-Singaporeans with an axe to grind residing abroad.

“ang moh” is the hokkien term for caucasian. check out

Dogs are different. they are honest at least on December 5th, 2009 11.49 am #22

“Opportunist,
if you dare to be more racist, i hope you get sued soon.
your ip is all over.
hope you not grabbing contents .
Are you? Have you? ”

It’s onerous upon TR itself hosting the site to vet and censor whatever it deems improper.
Because the dissidents and sink-a-poors are mainly envious foreigners or ex-Singaporeans with an axe to grind residing abroad.

“ang moh” is the hokkien term for caucasian. check it out at any hawker centres.
Mr. Kenneth Jeyaretnam’s mother is causacian and his father is of tamil sri lankan descent, So what is so derogoratory?

Opportunit doesn’t call good people “Dogs”. It is slanderous and shd be checked. Right?

This guy is not any Ang Mo, Is an “APE MAN”. No Brain !
“Gasa Putah”

#48,

what nonsense you mumbling here?
i scanned the whole article and no one ever called any good people a dog.
You are a liar and your baseless allegations can lead you into trouble.

stop using the name fingering on a saturday. go out and socialise.

I found this nice article on Dubai economy and how it resembles singapore in certain ways.

http://www.temasekreview.com/2009/12/05/the-demise-of-dubai-%e2%80%93-how-the-mighty-have-fallen/comment-page-1/#comment-46149

I found a reader’s comment especially interesting and I quote :

“Singapore resembles Dubai model. While Dubai is a part of bigger UAE and close to oil rich Abu Dhabi, Singapore is alone balancing on a tight rope.

Similar to Dubai, without any natural resources, Singapore Inc. including the 2 SWF dug deeper into her 50 years of accumulated reserves. And Temasek and CapL are starting to borrow substantially thru issuing longer term bonds in the international market.

MM mentioned that the post recovery period will be very different and uncertain, and Singapore must expect lower eco growth.

As such, it will be difficult to regain the usual footing as b4. Thus, both taxes and GST will have to go up sooner than previously expected.
“

JBJ deserves the Public Service Star

http://campaignjbj.wordpress.com/

51) karma went on exile on December 5th, 2009 4.53 pm

I found this nice article on Dubai economy and how it resembles singapore in certain ways.

http://www.temasekreview.com/2009/12/05/the-demise-of-dubai-%e2%80%93-how-the-mighty-have-fallen/comment-page-1/#comment-46149

I found a reader’s comment especially interesting and I quote :

“Singapore resembles Dubai model. While Dubai is a part of bigger UAE and close to oil rich Abu Dhabi, Singapore is alone balancing on a tight rope.

Reads like a paraphase of an article by Business Times, which is republished on the Malaysian Insider.

http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/index.php/opinion/breaking-views/45422-singapore-and-dubai-alike-yet-so-different–oh-boon-ping-

Refer to comment 44 by [Just Another Singaporean] :

“Theory is only good if a few basic assumptions are the only parameters that matter and remain true throughout. Real life is more complex than this where theorists sometimes find it expedient to exclude other important parameters as it will make their theory messier and not so neat. It is not so basic when this theory is put side by side with other matters, easily forgotten when a particular theory is being emphasized, when standards of living is not going to improve where basic wages for work done are not enough to cover basic costs of essentials like food & shelter.”

When certain economic theories are taught in schools throughout the world and over the decades, they must have been accepted as good theories and are applicable to real life.

If basic wages can’t cover costs of essentials, why are there people travelled all the way from China or India to take up the jobs here?

“You may want to give appropriate examples of jobs which may be outsourced to other places outside of our country because of minimum wages. Jobs that command low-wage here like labourers, cleaners, waiters, etc have to reside within the country and cannot be practically outsourced. Most probably, those jobs which can be outsourced because of low wages plus other overall synergistic considerations would have already been done so and, if not already being done, will be done.”

Oh I see, the Reform Party is proposing a system of minimum wages to protect labourers, waiters and cleaners! Didn’t you tell them that these are jobs which Singaporeans do not want to do?

Singaporeans want to play with modern technologies while earning their incomes. They want to be professionals, executives, managers and investors. It seemed to me that the Reform Party is using an out-dated weapon to hit wrong target! Or may be they do not know the ground well enough.

Members of the Reform Party must have missed many of the economics lessons delivered by the ministers over the decades : skill upgrading , re-training, positive attitude and growing the economic pie for all! Tell them not to miss the next lesson!

“It just needs one self-interested dissatified worker to blow the whistle with proof and strict enforcement, made much easier in a tight country like ours, to ensure that this does not happen. Undesirable & illegal acts like drug trafficking, robbery, etc may still happen even if there are laws to curb it and that goes the same for minimum wage policy as far as your concern for “black labour market” goes. That does not take away the fact that certain good policies or laws still need to be there.”

And what are you going to do with the company that paid below the minimum wage? Closed it down? Do you know how many people would lose their jobs?

I refer to (54 – My Views). Stop giving excuses that Singaporeans do not want to work as cleaners, labourers and waiters. Singaporeans simply don’t want to be exploit. An Indian foreign worker said to me he is paid $800 as skilled labour doing documentation works like running errands applying permit. Recently he passed his driving test and his employer ask him to drive too without increase in salary. He said his employer pay a Singaporean $2k doing the same job but with extra responsibility he got no wage increase. Does he have a choice despite pouring his unhappiness to me? You throw peanuts, the gorilla will stand aside and let the monkey have it but if you throw a banana, the gorilla will definately go for it. Please, stop the daylight exploitation.

In anyways, the government just want to see better employment statistics, but doesn’t care how such statistics arrived.

End