SDP also made the call for the PAP to release the electoral map early.

http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/11/sdp-call-for-government-to-release-electoral-map/

Its good to see the opposition getting active and speaking up. It must be hard for them because they need to make a living too as they do no get Govt funding.

u people should be grateful for the many things PAP has done for us. Don’t just complain, complain, complain… no constructive feedback

3) luvPAP on December 10th, 2009 9.54 pm u people should be grateful for the many things PAP has done for us. Don’t just complain, complain, complain… no constructive feedback
***********************************************

Bro,
I am thankful Singapore is want it is today.

However, for the well being of future generations of Singaporeans, we need to have more opposition voices heard in the Parliament.

That’s all. Dont think I am complaining and also being ungrateful. Right Bro?

Drug Trafficking is certainly an evil. Our Govt should not spare efforts to deal with the problem of drug abuse and trafficking. I agree it may be mis-placed to sympathise with evil doers like drug traffickers, commonly known as “Drug Lords” – those who run the illegal drug trade and who stand to make obscene profits from drug addiction.

But here is the thing: is Yong Vui Kong a “drug trafficker” ??? Come on.

The 19 year old was the stupid, idiotic MULE – the delivery boy of a “boss” who was probably himself a low level lackey in the syndicate hierarchy.

So we caught the small fry. Have we scored a victory in the war against drug traffickers by hanging the delivery boy ???

The punishment must fit the crime. We must ask ourselves: What has Yong done to warrant the death penalty ???

Isn’t Yong himself a hapless victim of the Drug Lords? Duped into running a deadly gauntlet; fed with false assurances by his boss (whom he respected and looked up to) that he would be let off if caught with the illicit goods.

Young, uneducated, poor and parentless – it is easy to convince a GUILLIBLE boy to do anything for you.

Even then, Yong Vui Kong has accepted he has done a moral and evil wrong. He is prepared to accept decades of imprisonment.

Let us not gloss over the fact that Yong Vui Kong does NOT want to die! He wants to live, even if he has to face a lifetime in jail.

Is it right to have a law mandating the death penalty for drug mules like Yong ?

Naïve, unprotected boys like Yong are in no short supply. Drug Lords will have no problem finding new mules to replace the dead ones.

This Political party is the kind of gungho Opposition I have been waiting for .
RP is the real McCoy.

Hmmm… (at some of the comments)

When the SDP campaigned against the death penalty years ago, almost everyone accused them of being opportunists. In fact, the SDP was the party that initiated the whole campaign against the death penalty that we have today. Let’s not forget that. :)

Well I am certainly happy to hear that RP will be putting out a letter to ask for Yong’s death sentence to be reduced, thank you Kenneth.

Let’s hope that more opposition politicians will come out against the death penalty like SDP and RP. We need more influential voices, not deafening silence. Then again just a ponder… does the ‘deafening silence’ means that they are in support of the death penalty?

Well well well… I scratch my head and wonder (because I know some of the members of the other parties are personally against the death penalty but they are not the ’seniors’ you see).

its not a numbers game. i wonder if the campaigners are up to the task, there has been a number of times “Human Rights” campaigners who will just hop on any related cause to press on their goals. objective seem to be lacking, IMPO.

a successful campaign cannot relay on just numbers to pad up their cause. dun be like PAP, rule by majority inside “their” house.

lol…

that said MR Yong Vui Kong does seem more & more like a tool. being made a poster boy for the “anti Death Penalty” camp & now politics.

lol, lol…

Concede defeat, PAP! Release electoral boundary changes.

Why is it that the writer of the article makes no effort to mention that SDP had also called for the election boundaries to be released and that SDP is the other local opposition party making a public stand on the death penalty (not to mention they took a stand so longer back).

I mean its not just about giving credit to SDP as well but it also helps beef up the article and 2 calls being made cause it doesnt just seem like lone parties are asking for these things.

Hi Mice is nice,

There is no solid human rights organisation in Singapore so that is why campaigners are pulled all over the place to work for various causes because there is no funding, resources or manpower let alone the time. The campaigners from Singapore Anti-Death Penalty Campaign are trying our best, working closely alongside various groups including TOC to handle all the work involved. Members of the public have came forward supporting our campaign as well and we are certainly very heartened to see that.

We are not using Yong Vui Kong as a tool. We are campaigning against his death sentence, supporting Ravi (legal counsel and our co-campaigner) in all areas, as well as going about our advocacy work against the death penalty which will go on in the long run. This is as far as I can say with regards to SADPC and people working closely with us.

There is indeed a very fine line between intentions but why do you doubt the sincerity of people from activists to politicians? Why can’t activists and politicians be genuinely concerned about the issue without people doubting about their agenda. We are still members of the public but because of our campaigning work, people refer to us as campaigners.

In other countries all over the world, Asia included, it is typical for politicians to raise their concerns about such issues and the whole world welcomes their participation. However in Singapore, it seems like such actions, especially from the opposition politicians, are viewed with suspicion. I wonder why this is so. Is this what we call “Uniquely Singapore”?

hi Rachel Z,

post #11 on December 11th, 2009 12.51 am

your reply sums up why there is the fence & why there are people on boths sides & that the fence remains. people like you do not understand why there are people who are critical, some who are not & some indifferent.

how you are associated with SADPC will likely be viewed with suspicion than a stamp of approval. highlighting relationships does nothing to make the cause any more sincere. in Chinese, the term “gaun xi” is often viewed negatively.

when a “why” is raised, it gives rise to a “why not” rebuttal. being critical has its merits, this is how people improve, by winning critics over, just like movie critics. of course, there are idiots who pretend to be critics. but further probe will reveal their true self.

i do believe campaigning a cause requires certain qualities, an infinite amount patience & steely will be among them. sounds like local politics, do you see Mr Chiam ST or Mr Low TK quitting?

what is the “Uniquely S’pore” you were saying?

mice is nice I don’t see your point at all, and maybe cause you’ve missed hers.

fae

post #13 on December 11th, 2009 1.22 am

////I don’t see your point at all, and maybe cause you’ve missed hers.////

which 1 or 2 of the 3 posts? or all 3?

i thought my 1st & 2nd post very short & striaghtforward already?…

my 3rd post is in response to Rachel Z’s post. if you think i missed her point please highlight to me, thank you. ;)

as in which part i miss….

I’m all for what the Reform Party stands for, and truly look forward to a REVIEW of the Death Penalty, if not the END of it.
To the Reform Party, I wish you all the best in your noble endeavors & that you have on a good suit of ‘amour’ to withstand PAP’s armor-piercing legalistic ammunition.

Hi dear mice is nice, I wonder how does saving a MALAYSIAN drug mule will score political points in Singapore. Our Abang cannot vote in Singapore even as PR.

Why should SDP and RP stick their necks out to save a foreigner when his country’s political parties should be the one making the noise, providing the assistance and doing the work?

Not as if they are located one continent away. I am sure they got more important things to handle but dont tell me they can handle one issue at one time?

I feel pity for Mr Yong because like his deadbeat father, his fellow countrymen left him high and dry, even by the “Malaysian Malaysia” people.

If not for the compassion of strangers…

8) mice is nice on December 11th, 2009 12.20 am
its not a numbers game.

I think all campaigns are…
Basically, they are an exercise to get ‘numbers’ onto their side.

The only thing I would object to is to always assume/imply things with no basis. e.g if people stayed silent, it must be ‘fear’ of PAP or something. Somehow, the tot that the ’silent’ may agree with the DP simply doesn’t cross their minds. In that, they are no different from PAP who pretends to speak for the majority without ever asking the majority what they want.

To all Singaporean “bleeding hearts”:

Take a page out of another country’s book, just go away, pretend Mr Yong doesn’t exist, diam diam and leave Mr Yong to his “just punishment”.

Nvm, lah.

22) Terence on December 11th, 2009 9.25 am
My concern with this article is to find out why opposition parties have not been “official” with their condemnation of the death penalty, so to speak.

I am not sure why you seem to think that opposition parties must have an ‘official’ position with respect to an issue that is important to you. Any number of people can have any number of things that are important to them. It doesn’t mean the opposition parties, or any political parties die die must have a position on that.

Perhaps the first question you should ask is that if they do have a position at all? and not what position it is? By showing ‘concern’ on their silence, it seems you are already made some assumptions on their position, even if they might not even have one.

One more thing, I wished that the part of electoral boundaries was a separate article. With TOC’s extensive coverage of Yong, it cannot help but overshadow this issue by quite a bit. I tot it deserved it’s own space, even if both were related to the Reform Party.

[...] are against capital punishment – TOC: Open letter on drug trafficker to be released – The Asia File: Outlook for Yong Vui Kong still bleak despite rare reprieve [Thanks [...]

Lobo, you said:

“I am not sure why you seem to think that opposition parties must have an ‘official’ position with respect to an issue that is important to you. Any number of people can have any number of things that are important to them. It doesn’t mean the opposition parties, or any political parties die die must have a position on that.”

That is not my position at all. If you read the article, you would know that I asked KJ why he thought that was the case. I was looking for an answer. As for the electoral boundary issue, the fact that calling for electoral boundaries to be released is not exactly new, and so occupies a lower priority in terms of news value.

I really hope all opposition political parties will make a united call towards PAP to release the electoral map early.

Ω李

post #17 on December 11th, 2009 8.20 am

there is political points to be gained by being seen to do good, since Mr Yong Vui Kong case is gaining momentum there will be opportunitists who will hop on this very bandwagon.

besides, there are local campaigners who may align themselves with such political parties as it furthers their goals. friendship based on convinience if you will.

lobo76

post #20 on December 11th, 2009 9.16 am

////I think all campaigns are…
Basically, they are an exercise to get ‘numbers’ onto their side.////

part true, but that depends on what kind of support is won. wholeheartedly & staunch? or support based on, the he’s/she’s my friend, blind faith or false assumptions?

yeah, i also object to assumptions & people who often imply certain things like the world revolve around them.

cheers. 8)

From 9 to 12. Why this number?
It is characteristic of pap to do things based solely on its own terms and vested interested. Why 12 and not 18? Obviously, because the party thinks it has got that number of ’strong’ candidates for the wards or it would be a strategic increase, for example, changing some existing single wards by absorpting it into a GRC, eg Potong Pasir!! One shouldn’t put it past LKY and his cronies stooping to any low tactics to win. PP must be considered an insult an affront to LKY. Just remember what happened to Anson where LKY’s handpicked pappy candidates got slapped and butted out. That big bad wolf that LKY is never forgets a slight and would return the favour with big interest.

The opposition must think out of the box/bag – never underestimate lky’s capacity to deliver low blows. The oppo should in fact conduct widespread guerilla tactics at the grass root to defeat the pap plans.

To mice:

I reiterate my point; it involves a Malaysian not a SINGAPOREAN kid facing the gallows.

No one, not even the government knows what the public’s views on the death penalty, at best a very good guess with a secret census if the PAP was conscientious (and even then among it’s core supporters only). And even then no one but God knows how much this issue will weigh in a voter’s mind. But judging by the apathetic and economic rationalist nature of the majority of the public, not much, so thus not much “political points”.

I guess I am such an opportunist as I have no desire for any future democracy in Singapore to resemble the dirty unsubstantiated unproductive finger-pointing politics in other countries instead of taking the moral high ground. I feel more strongly about the above-mentioned than the mandatory death penalty of Mr Yong. However, as elucidated before there are numerous ethical, practical, legal and individual rights problems with the mandatory death sentence of drug trafficking which will not be discussed by the ruling party, not at least in public.

Hopefully out of the box NOT = defamation, stirring racial and religious sensitivities.

Ω李

post #30 on December 11th, 2009 3.19 pm

lol, i know Yong Vui Kong is Malaysian. but still, its my opinion that he is more of a tool to gain political points. the point is not how much or little points is there to be won, but the fact that there is points to be won.

no, i am not saying you are an opportunist, direct or otherwise. hope there is no such misunderstanding.

Ω李,

The population mix is undergoing a transformation that even the govt cannot forecast. We are controlled this way because the govt has engineered the whole society and shaped it in the mould it desired.

We foreigners we called new citizens and PRs are an unknown quantity. Who is to say we do not have in our midst potential rabblerousers, crooks, trouble makers, extremists, etc. Say just 5% of them. That would be enough to seed and manipulate the group. Why do you think govt is not going to make them serve NS? The govt is fully aware of the potential for trouble and problem if these new citizens are inducted for military and police duties. Those few that are – as mentioned by LKY to Charlie Rose – are definitely watched like a hawk by the security people. That I am quite sure.

To anon,

Quote: “Who is to say we do not have in our midst potential rabblerousers, crooks, trouble makers, extremists, etc. Say just 5% of them. That would be enough to seed and manipulate the group. Why do you think govt is not going to make them serve NS?”

You mean this country does not vet immigrants? Everyone has been saying any T, D & H can come, so this confirms the reality. What a silly place!

“Those few that are – as mentioned by LKY to Charlie Rose – are definitely watched like a hawk by the security people. That I am quite sure. ”

Like Mat Selamat? Serving NS is a severe economic disadvantage for the locals; the government knows this as well and yet nothing is being done.

“The population mix”

Hope you are not referring to ethnicity, people of the same ethnicity can also be manipulated easily.

“Those few that are – as mentioned by LKY to Charlie Rose – are definitely watched like a hawk by the security people.”

you must be joking lah. I thought MAS was locked up literally in a place full of security people. and MAS was labeled as a terror and by the way it was said that he had a limp.

his photo was pasted almost every single corner that you were able to think of and the whole nation of security forces was mobilized just to get him.

what hawk ? do you mean Tweety Bird with one-man assembly law to fall back on ?

Hi mice is nice,

You mentioned,

“your reply sums up why there is the fence & why there are people on boths sides & that the fence remains. people like you do not understand why there are people who are critical, some who are not & some indifferent.”

It is inevitable that there will always be people who are critical. ‘People like me’ are always trying to reach out to engage with them so that we can exchange ideas and opinions with the intention to understand each others’ perspectives. I feel that you have not fully understood our work but it is understandable and we need to evaluate upon that ourselves.

“how you are associated with SADPC will likely be viewed with suspicion than a stamp of approval.”

Maybe you would like to elaborate more upon this point? If you firmly believe so, then I believe that you do have a reason too. Point of this discussion here is to share opinions (IMHO), not to just whack.

“when a “why” is raised, it gives rise to a “why not” rebuttal. being critical has its merits, this is how people improve, by winning critics over, just like movie critics. of course, there are idiots who pretend to be critics. but further probe will reveal their true self.”

Yupp, I agree. So elaborate on the “why not”. I am not saying that no one can criticise anyone. In fact I do welcome it that was why I bothered asking all the whys. Otherwise I will just slam all the way in a very offended and offensive manner.

“i do believe campaigning a cause requires certain qualities, an infinite amount patience & steely will be among them. sounds like local politics, do you see Mr Chiam ST or Mr Low TK quitting?”

Not everything is black and white. Activists campaign, politicians campaign, union groups campaign, social welfare groups campaign… all over the world. A politician can also be an activist but an activist need not necessarily be a politician. I prefer not to comment on Low and Chiam here. :)

“what is the “Uniquely S’pore” you were saying?”

Was just a sarcastic expression. Maybe you can read the whole paragraph again, maybe you will get it. Otherwise it isn’t all that important yea.

“In that, they are no different from XXX who pretends to speak for the majority without ever asking the majority what they want.”

really ? how to ask ? majority ? must have permit or not ?

18) Ω李 on December 11th, 2009 8.28 am

Why should SDP and RP stick their necks out to save a foreigner when his country’s political parties should be the one making the noise, providing the assistance and doing the work?

I assure you that you will be shouting “foreign interference! foreign interference! foreign interference!” when you find out UMNO or Pakatan Rakyat is campaigning for Vui Kong’s clemency. Besides, it is just as wrong to hang a Malaysian just as it is to hang a Singaporean (rich or poor, Lee or not).

“I assure you that you will be shouting “foreign interference! foreign interference! foreign interference!” when you find out UMNO or Pakatan Rakyat is campaigning for Vui Kong’s clemency.”

Who, me? A Malaysian who was about to be hanged who I am not related to in anyway. There was a load (super lot more) of foreign interference during the Nyugen Tuong Van case. Did anyone complain? Not even PAP. I can understand UMNO not wanting to save a poor Malaysian Chinese citizen, but a near total news blackout by PR and their politicians, especially the socialist one with the “multi-racial” composition?

Face it, the Malaysians got caught out with their hypocrisy. They dont even acknowledge Mr Yong’s existence until the last minute for Malaysiakini and not at all in the MSM. Seems to me like there is some secret pact is going on between the Malaysian opposition (especially that one component) and the Singaporean governing party.

“Besides, it is just as wrong to hang a Malaysian just as it is to hang a Singaporean (rich or poor, Lee or not). ”

Nice sentiments but there will no reciprocity I can assure you whoever is in power in Malaysia, although on our side even PAP will take care of its citizens and duly report the news. If ever the Singapore opposition were to take power, it would be expected to do so to. It is their DUTY.

P.S HTML allowed?

so the talk abt certain groups using the young man to whip up public sympathy and sentiment towards the abolishment of death penalty is not such a slippery slope after all. What abt the one eye dragon? And pple were asking for the heads of reckless drivers whenever they killed somebody ‘accidentally’. Guess pple tend to be hypocritical

also, dun bother to ask for electoral map when cant even field one GRC team…field also can kena ‘vaporised’ on cooling off day

新加坡的秩序是靠严刑峻法吗

http://news.sina.com.cn/o/2009-12-10/083016749087s.shtml

hi Rachel Zeng

post #38 on December 11th, 2009 8.16 pm

eh, maybe its not about understanding your work? maybe its more like how naive you come across?

example (from post #11 on December 11th, 2009 12.51 am):

1) “We are not using Yong Vui Kong as a tool. We are campaigning against his death sentence… ”
my response: do you expect people to believe you right off the bat? or are believers your friends or those who know you?

2) “Why can’t activists and politicians be genuinely concerned about the issue without people doubting about their agenda.”
my response: this is not a can or can’t question at all. the fact you raise such a question really amuses me.

3) “We are still members of the public…”
my response: then what am i? lol…

4) “In other countries all over the world, Asia included, it is typical for politicians to raise their concerns about such issues and the whole world welcomes their participation.”
my response: there is a certain amount of biased in this statement, on the flip side people who raise questions and probe further deeper (like me) into the said causes are not welcome? the “thumbs down” on my posts vs the “thumbs up” on yours is telling isn’t it?

5) “I wonder why this is so.”
my response: Mr Yong Vui Kong is not the 1st person to be tried under such a law. so why the surge in interest? how families & friends of those before him think & feel?

////Was just a sarcastic expression.////

so this is your way (in your own words as follows),…
////trying to reach out to engage with them so that we can exchange ideas and opinions with the intention to understand each others’ perspectives.////

“do you expect people to believe you right off the bat? or are believers your friends or those who know you?”

Actually it is up to people to believe it or not but in time to come, it is hoped that our actions will prove otherwise. I do know personally that at the end of the day, the people who will truly know the sincerity of our work is us. We see new faces coming to our events and strangers discussing the topic with us on here. It is not a “friend-friend” support that we have.

Look, and this is just fyi, we are people with day jobs too and we could have just ignored the whole issue or just let him hang but we disagree with his sentence hence we spoke up. You have the right to doubt, I have never said no to that but I personally have the right to defend my position too. It is all equal here, no?

“this is not a can or can’t question at all. the fact you raise such a question really amuses me.”

So I can’t raise a question for discussion too? That was in fact a question in response to your doubts because you have not elaborated or made suggestions there. Was merely trying to engage you in a discussion because I want to understand more about your views. Otherwise I won’t bother to keep coming back to respond.

“then what am i? lol…”

Same thing, a member of the public too. Campaigners hold no superiority over anyone else. The whole point of campaigning is to advocate and generate support. If anyone doesn’t agree with us, there is no reason to force but to be patient while continuing to clarify the doubts they hold. That is what I am personally doing. Campaigners are merely a group of people who happens to be members of the public, who comes together to speak up on an issue.

“there is a certain amount of biased in this statement, on the flip side people who raise questions and probe further deeper (like me) into the said causes are not welcome? the “thumbs down” on my posts vs the “thumbs up” on yours is telling isn’t it?”

Once again let me reinforce the fact that I have never said that people with different opinions/ who are critical are not welcome. With regards to the thumbs up/ down, I never really give it much attention. Just a little novelty I think and it is a little immature for anyone to see any importance into that (only speaking in general). It is my own opinion though and am just sharing with you. You may of course, feel free to think otherwise.

“Mr Yong Vui Kong is not the 1st person to be tried under such a law. so why the surge in interest? how families & friends of those before him think & feel?”

Because we have not heard about other cases. That is why we have been appealing for lawyers or anyone to approach us if they are handling/ heard of such cases so that we can render them the support they need.

With regards to the “Uniquely Singapore” thingy, I use that often in speech/ on my personal blog. Not targeted at you personally but at the end of a ponder about certain situations in Singapore. Since you specifically asked about that, so I thought I should be honest with you that it was a sarcastic expression of mine. Yes I realised that I did not elaborate in response but I thought it wasn’t important, just a trivial matter.

[...] Stay of execution of Yong Vui Kong – Irreligious: Of Yong Vui Kong and Buddhism – TOC: Open letter on drug trafficker to be released – The Asia File: Outlook for Yong Vui Kong still bleak despite rare reprieve [Thanks [...]

I think like that Cooling Off thingie, RP should cite other countries as example of when the date is normally Released in other 1st worlds.

But the apathetic population may never know about this points/questions raised by RP.

So, am i right that the problem is Apathy? Mr TKL, would you be so kind as to respond to this assumption of mine? Would you not agree ?

#9 mice is nice,
In this world, there is no perfection. There are always pros and cons to all things.
what matters is that a naive person convicted of death sentence for trafficking is given a voice by activists.

That means something to the family members of Vong.

is #9 hoping for perfection? If people cannot be perfect they should not help? A help is a help. To Vong, it means a lot. Imagine if you were in his shoes, tell me you would not appreciate it?

Rachel Zeng

post #46 on December 12th, 2009 12.50 am

new faces showing up for your cause does not equal to a show of support, dun jump to that conclusion too early.

you may be doing this out of compassion & out your own spare time, but that does not mean its worth supporting. if that is what you are getting at.

////…. but I personally have the right to defend my position too.////

critics not = antagonists. that is all i can say.

its not that you cannot raise a question, but its about what it asked that i find amusing.

as for the “thumbs up & “thumbs down”, it does give an indication how well or ill recieved a post is. most likely, most of my detractors most likely have nothing much to back up their opinion? maybe it is an immature novelty i guess? :D

////Because we have not heard about other cases.////

fair enough. i cant say the same for others hopping on this (Yong Vui Kong) bandwagon though.

as for mentioning Mr Chiam ST & Mr Low TK, i am not about to open an irrelevent discussion about them but to highlight real people who in my opinion have the said qualities in my earlier post. hope this clears the air.

as for your sarcism, if you think its trivial, i have nothing more to say…

Skurambong

post #49 on December 12th, 2009 2.35 pm

i dun see how your post relates to my post #9 on December 11th, 2009 12.22 am

////In this world, there is no perfection….. is #9 hoping for perfection?////

???…

Rachel Zeng

post #46 on December 12th, 2009 12.50 am

“new faces showing up for your cause does not equal to a show of support, dun jump to that conclusion too early.”

Indeed I agree. However things seems to be going well at the moment, people have expressed their support in many ways. We will see what happens as time goes by.

“you may be doing this out of compassion & out your own spare time, but that does not mean its worth supporting. if that is what you are getting at.”

No no, I am not insisting that everyone should find this worth supporting. There are many other causes in this world, local and global, and people are free to support any one of them. They are also free to ignore all of them. Point is that campaigners naturally want to advocate for their cause and at the end of the day, they do hope to change certain bit of society. In a way I was speaking in general about most campaigners I know about, that they do what they do out of a strong passionate believe that some things must change at their own free will without personal gains.

“critics not = antagonists. that is all i can say.”

Yup I agree with that. I guess we all should be receptive to constructive feedback/ criticisms but when we feel that someone has misunderstood what we say/ where we are coming from, we should be given a chance to try to clarify the misunderstood points (in a way, defend the cause) when that need arises. That was what I really wanted to say.

“its not that you cannot raise a question, but its about what it asked that i find amusing.”

Fair enough. I was just thinking that you could very well elaborate on your criticisms right from the beginning but felt that you didn’t, and wanted to understand your position so I began to ask those questions. In some ways, I find it amusing that you address my questions with more criticisms. :p

“as for the “thumbs up & “thumbs down”, it does give an indication how well or ill recieved a post is. most likely, most of my detractors most likely have nothing much to back up their opinion? maybe it is an immature novelty i guess? :D ”

Heck care lah, just ‘popularity’ indicator. If I actually do care about how many thumbs up I get, I think I will be a depressed person right now lol. This might be something I will probably care about if I am still like… 14? Hehehee…

“fair enough. i cant say the same for others hopping on this (Yong Vui Kong) bandwagon though.”

Oh well… I think this is worth an email discussion.

“as for mentioning Mr Chiam ST & Mr Low TK, i am not about to open an irrelevent discussion about them but to highlight real people who in my opinion have the said qualities in my earlier post. hope this clears the air.”

I think there are many other people who have supersede them in such ‘qualities’. Personal opinion only but I am not going to elaborate here. It does clear the air though. Thanks for clarifying.

“as for your sarcism, if you think its trivial, i have nothing more to say…”

To each his/ her own! :)

#52 addressed to mice, not myself. Blur me! hahahaa

Singapore has low crime and the death penalty. Why stop the death penalty? Does anyone really thinks crime will be even lower if there is no death penalty?

Hang drug trafficker Vui!

Rachel Zeng

post #52 on December 13th, 2009 12.44 pm

hmmm, who is to say that people who champion causes in their own free time do it for altruistic reasons alone. anyway, why not let your work do the talking for you (& others like you) instead?

which questions of yours did i answer with more criticisms?

is it the following from my post #13 on December 11th, 2009 1.15am?

quoting myself:
////how you are associated with SADPC will likely be viewed with suspicion than a stamp of approval.////
highlighting working or personal connection itself is a double edge sword, just look for examples of posts that speaks positively of MIW or PAP.

////when a “why” is raised, it gives rise to a “why not” rebuttal.////
like the above mentioned it does little to convince critics.

i think you need to evaluate how you go about engaging critcs. sarcasm is not the way. as of now, you are still like when you were 14? :P no wonder you “catch no ball” what i have been trying to say. lol…

Mice,

Legitimate questions were raised but you have attacked the young lady there with an attitude that is so difficult to withstand. Being a professor for over 20 years, I have never stopped telling my students to ask, ask and ask! All the who, what, where, whys. I do not think that her questions are amusing but I find your attitude amusing.

By your indication that she was being sarcastic when she mentioned “… like when I was 14?” tells me that you are so out to win this discussion that you mistook lighthearted humour for sarcasm. Honestly she has been quite diplomatic towards your patronising remarks. You have obviously been nitpicking each and every word that she uses. What is the point?

Discuss, for the sake of discussion. Not for the sake of winning or losing.

That’s all I have to say after following this for the past few days.

Rachel,

It is a waste of time giving him the attention. By the way good luck for the campaign, I am anonymously supporting all of you in my own ways.

Professor from Taiwan

post #56 on December 14th, 2009 2.08 pm

can you quote sentences those you deemed were my attacks? i did not mistook her lighthearted humour for sarcasm, she said so herself (that it was such) if you have read her replies, so how can i have mistaken? as for me “nitpicking each & every word” she uses i guess its not just me. afterall, in an online forum if not words what else is there? tone of her voice, hand gestures, body language…? lol…

you can start a discussion by quoting my sentences (which to you seem like an attack) to start a discussion, rather then out out nowhere & in your 1st post you already seem to have chosen who’s side you’re on?

////… you have attacked the young lady there with an attitude that is so difficult to withstand.////

i dun get what you mean, its a rather vague. please do explain further. thanks, professor.