Technically, the SAF is not the people’s army. It’s the government’s army.

SAF PLEDGE: We, members of the Singapore Armed Forces, do
solemnly and sincerely pledge that we will always bear true faith and
allegiance to the President and the Republic of Singapore. We will
always support and defend the Constitution. We will preserve and
protect the honour and independence of our country with our lives.

No where does it says protect the people… And it’s hollow anyway since we have lost independence anyhow.

Good for you! I hope more Singaporeans will vote against the PAP this time. It’s time for a change and move away from the material madness, do we have to be no 1? Yes if money is on our radar but there is a bigger picture and that is the people eventually, those who have sacrificed much for the country, the decent and low class parents who raided 3 or 4 kids, the single mother, the sick parents, and mostly the handicap.Where did all theat money go from the GLC and Temasek, maybe when the PAPgets voted out we will eventually know.

Actually, the old man knows better than to call in the citizen army that the SAF is made of, in the event of a “freak election result”.

After all, it is made up of the very citizens whose lives he had screwed up, whether by forced conscription, or poor policy making.

So what army is he talking about calling in? The elite gurkha contingent of course. There is a sizeable contingent of gurkha troops based here in Singapore, upwards of 5000 men.

The Gurkha contingent troops are elite trained, armed with state-of-the-art equipment, being foreigners have no compunctions about killing Singapore citizens and they are fiercely proud of their warrior culture, which means they are willing to fight to the death in any engagement, and best of all they are mercenaries with no interest whatsoever in the rights and wrongs in the conflict they enter, except how big their next pay check from their employers will be.

In the event of a “freak election result”, these 5000 shock mercenary troops will hit out and secure all key locations, i.e centres of control, power plants, public utility infrastructures, and voila, PAP is back into power again because they have saved the people from their own stupidity.

If you survey the residential compounds of the old man at 38 oxley road, all of the guards there are Gurkhas only. Our so-called elected leader of the country doesn’t even trust his countrymen anymore. How far have we fallen as a country, and how far will we continue to fall?

For fear of originalresonance launching into another one of those intellectual dishonesty diatribes, I think it prudent to start off the sentence by saying “I am grateful to the incumbent for the progress packages issued to me, but the 10 reasons why I cannot vote for the party in the next election are…”

I am curious as to why the loss of percentages of the votes garnered by the incumbent would sort of spur them towards excellence? Weren’t we all told that the essential factor of elite governance is through the remuneration? Don’t we all want to be MP’s who can afford to buy expensive condominiums? http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=2594797

“they are fiercely proud of their warrior culture”

This is not the 1st century. No elite soldier can survive a bullet in the head.

It is about guns, MPVs and tanks in urban warfare. But then again you believe the commanders in charge of said equipment will be loyal to the people or LKY. Quite possibly the latter.

Then again if LKY sends in the army, Game Over for the Golden Goose of Singapore Inc.

I do not recall Mr. Lee Kuan Yew having said he would bring in the army if there was ever a freak election. I believe he never made such a comment.

On the point of PAP losing one or two GRCs in the next General Election, I would like to warn those small group of Singaporeans not to play with fire. Think of the grave consequences! If the PAP were to lose one GRC, you guys could expect to see the stock market dives at least 50% with unemployment shooting the ceiling!. If the Opposition takes over two GRCs, you guys can expect to be refugees!

Fortunately, investors are aware that most Singaporeans are of sound mind.

A matter of fact, the whole Singapore belongs to PAP including our army and police force. This has being agreed by Singapore citizen for decades and many Singapore citizen is happy living under such arrangement.

According to the “freak election” logic:

1) Vote for PAP win, everything stay the same, PAP government, good for Singapore.

2) Vote PAP out, call in army, Singapore went down, PAP still government.

Isn’t it option (1) is better? Vote in the PAP in the first instant.

Voters know best, to vote PAP out is disaster for the country!

I would just like to translate MrView’s thoughts.

Translation:

“If you don’t vote for the PAP, Singapore’s economy will collapse and you all will suffer from unemployment and you all will be poor and homeless! “

Hi My Views,

1. LKY did say that, is published in our state media.

2. Tell your refugees and stock theory to Taiwanese and Japanese where their opposition rule the nation recently. They will laugh till death.

Anyway, good try but try harder next time.

My Views

post #6 on December 13th, 2009 1.58 am

well, how many “refugees”-turned-S’poreans are there already?

oh wait, maybe this is how MIW reach their 6.5 mil population target? little wonder citizenship give out like freebies, with lax immigration controls. only now with much public feedback then kneejerk reaction, prod along, pretend to do something?

wayang? lol…

Refer to [10] by [FaceTheFact].

Taiwan and Japan have natural resources and a much larger domestic market to fall back.

What does Singapore have? Nothing, except a competent and honest government leading to political stability which in turn attracts investments! You shake that solid and core foundation which Singapore’s success rests upon, the whole nation collapses like a tonne of rock! Don’t ever try to make a mockery on this national survival fact!

Two wards under the Opposition, investors could bear with it. One or two GRCs will mean the government loses a few highly competent ministers overnight! What does it mean to the investors? Capital flight! Business pull out! Your Singapore dollar savings will quickly depreciate and your stock investment will evaporate!

Laughing matter? Threat? It will be too late by the time you discovered it is not.

6) My Views on December 13th, 2009 1.58 am

Think of the grave consequences! If the PAP were to lose one GRC, you guys could expect to see the stock market dives at least 50% with unemployment shooting the ceiling!. If the Opposition takes over two GRCs, you guys can expect to be refugees!

Haha… What mindless pelting of words, an embarrassment to the English language. Whether PAP looses one or two GRCs, it will still retain parliamentary majority thus it will remain as Government.

Taiwan and Japan has natural resources??? I guess not only Taiwanese and Japanese will laugh till death, our primarily school kids will also laugh till death on seeing your statement.

Ok, let me tell you what Singapore have. Singapore have geographical advantage, that’s make us one of the world busy port. Singapore have no natural disaster, unlike Taiwan and Japan, we have no volcano, earthquake, or cyclonic storms. Singapore have British help us built our nation infrastructural before we gained independent. Singapore have no huge population to feed and manage.

Don’t you think that if our ruling party lose one or two GRCs, our productivity, investment, currency, GDP will all increase due to there is competition in our Sg governing, like our MIW always said, competition is good. Who knows maybe we will coming one of the G7, world superpower, world largest economic, world largest reserve. All these will never happen if you resist to changes.

A sweeper will forever be a sweeper if he never make an effort to change his life.

For those questioning the validity of the statement, here is LKY’s quote in full, taken from the Straits Times, Sept 16, 2006 (his 83rd birthday, incidentally). In future please do some basic research before assuming something doesn’t exist just because you don’t like it.

“Without the elected president and if there is a freak result, within two or three years, the army would have to come in and stop it.” (Straits Times, Sept 16 2006)

When ciitizen vote out the gov of Japan, hk, taiwan, and countries that are susceptible to natural disaster etc, I never hear these voted-out gov complain that the country is suffering from natural disaster and other excuses just to stay in power. Only in first-world-clown gov like SIN gov that keep emphasizing and complaining that SinCity has no natural resources. No natural resources but yet have the highest paid ministers (not one, but all the first top 30 ministers of the world ! Guinness World Record !) in the world giving cock ? No natural resources and yet rank as one of the highest reserves in the world ? No natural resources and yet can lost hundred of billions of state reserve and assets which are unheard of in the rest of the world ?

testing …

When ciitizen vote out the gov of Japan, hk, taiwan, and countries that are susceptible to natural disaster etc, I never hear these voted-out gov complain that the country is suffering from natural disaster and other excuses just to stay in power. Only in first-world-clown gov like SIN gov that keep emphasizing and complaining that SinCity has no natural resources. No natural resources but yet have the highest paid ministers (not one, but all the first top 30 ministers of the world ! Guinness World Record !) in the world giving nonsense ? No natural resources and yet rank as one of the highest reserves in the world ? No natural resources and yet can lost hundred of billions of state reserve and assets which are unheard of in the rest of the world ?

@My Views, this is the kind of gibberish you spit out after all these years of state propaganda. You’re exactly the kind of resource that’s a successful product of PAP rule. I’m glad you on TOC; it’s time to undo all the brainwashing.

Why can’t the writer imagine the opposition taking over from the PAP. We’ve too many years of people saying ‘we just want to put a dent in the PAP’s election showing’. That’s not demanding change. That still means a PAP government.

“On the point of PAP losing one or two GRCs in the next General Election, I would like to warn those small group of Singaporeans not to play with fire. Think of the grave consequences! If the PAP were to lose one GRC, you guys could expect to see the stock market dives at least 50% with unemployment shooting the ceiling!. If the Opposition takes over two GRCs, you guys can expect to be refugees”
@6 My Views

wow, insightful! Though i fail to envision the connection between the stock market diving by at least 50% and right off unemployment shooting through the ceiling. Are they connected by a indirectly proportional relationship with the political environment? Increase in opposition members brings a decrease in the stock market percentages and also brings a decrease in gainful employment.
If they are, the consequences of the relationship will presuppose a form of interlinking between the businesses and government (here i am not suggesting those who lost their seats contribute to the unemployment rate since the opposition MPs are able to fill the slack). And are these sort of dealings legitimate or formed out of necessity for certain purposes with a corrupt intent? If they aren’t related by a function, then most probably, it is a freak incident, one that happens every 50 years. That the stock market and unemployment are actually events that have occurred coincidentally.

2 GRCs, if assuming they belong to the 6 seats, would mean 12 opposition MPs, that they would cast votes thereby hindering the incumbent is irrelevant. According to http://www.elections.gov.sg/elections_type_electoral.html. There are 9 SMC, 2 of those belong to the opposition. 75 other seats come from a total of 14 GRCs.

Assuming that all other parameters are constant, there would be a small coalition that would feature <15 opposition MPs. The incumbent would still be able to bulldoze their way through policies that are brought forth that which is beneficial for Singaporeans. This is why losing 2 GRCs would not cause such a huge loss in their elite cabinet. As if the ministers who are being paid aren't competent enough to hunker down and be more productive and efficient. Its evident why there are so many minsters in the prime minister's office.

"Capital flight! Business pull out! Your Singapore dollar savings will quickly depreciate and your stock investment will evaporate!"

If that ever happens, I don't think any country will think it is worth their time, effort and lives to invade us. We do not have resources for them to exploit! There is no need to worry over the front that we will be refugees, not at this moment or in the future. But on that same note, I reckon that investors pulling out of Singapore is happening even as we speak and this happened even on the watch of the incumbent party, when the opposition is limited only to 2 single seats. The stock investment has depreciated and to think it happened (again) while the incumbent was in charge. Again, when inflation reared its ugly head, we had the 'strong singapore dollar' able to purchase foreign goods argument. Its no wonder we spent it all on buying necessities. Need I sound out when it happened?

I really think your post was about depressing the panic button before the event was about to happen. Gingerly you fingered the button, slowly feeling the resistance from the spring while you exerted more and more force, trying to push it down. However I hate to tell you this, whilst you were in the act of trying to create "awareness", disaster struck and we all are in this situation without being able to forestall it I reckon that the idea to preempt it is moot as we are here for reasons not pertaining to voting in an opposition.

How did we end up in dire situations like these when we had the best people running the show? I wonder if someone had "forecasted" this would happen indubitably. If he hadn't, he might not be that much of an exception to the rule.

As per tradition, it’s time for today’s most simple question: Which opposition party should Singaporeans vote for?

People like you and us, are exactly the reason WHY their elections is so ‘fixed’…
They are the greatest sufferers of ‘Kiasuism’…

@6) My Views on December 13th, 2009 1.58 am

Ah, the person that posted a LATE comment on the quite dated article at: http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/08/level-the-playing-field-for-locals-and-foreigners-in-employment/

My options to My View’s views are posted there. Can we have some original thinkers to present compelling “other side of the coin” arguments, not just the usual bootlicker, repackaging the same arguments which I am very tired of hearing? These are probably the “refugees”, in the event of a freak election.

While I agree the Opposition may not have much on their plate to offer, they do offer CHANGE. If Singaporeans learn they can change things in the next elections, they will learn the power to change things in subsequent elections — maybe some independents will step forward then. That is what I hope.

@22) theforgottongeneration on December 13th, 2009 8.04 am

Errata:

“….My options to My View’s views are posted there…..” should be instead be “….My OPINIONS to My View’s views are posted there….”

Should instead be “should instead be” with the extra “be” omitted. Stop being a pedant!

The blogger wrote: “I do not want the Opposition to take over this country…”

Do you not hear this refrain so many times that you are so tired of it AND has it ever occured to you that is also ONE of the MAIN reasons why the Opposition never gets a sizable majority or even squeak past the 2 Oppositions seats that they hold?

The blogger just slapped his own face and so did the rest of the electorate if they keep thinking this way in the past elections & next one coming up.

Seriously, change your mindset, you vote for the Opposition becos you want them to win by the majority so that legislative wise they can CHANGE the way the PAP do thing by bulldozing you down. Look at UK where the Conservatives & the public are more then ready to win with an election landslide once Gordon Brown calls for election in 2010. Look at Japan where LDP was kicked out for good cos the general public now had the guts to tell them to get lost. Of course, look at the obvious USA; CHANGE, CHANGE, CHANGE!

I remember he said he would send in the army in case of freak election. The whole hybrid regime when analysed is a very sophiscated organisation. Friends, classmates and elite associates all placed in strategic positions in government agencies, government linked companies, organisations to ensure undivided support and loyalty.

To win a seat or GRC is uphill task, most of the citizenships have been carefully moulded and pysched with selfishness, cowardice and self-interest so that the votes dont go to opposition anymore.

Think about Singapore from 1940s to now. Over the last few decades how PAP has drastically changed from people loving to the current “You guys are stupid, I know best, I need to be paid multi millions, I give you food you dont want to vote anymore, HDB/ERP/Electricity at record prices are to teach you about scarcity and reduce jams, 2M influx foreigners/new citizens are to increase “opportunities” “. Nepotism spreading like wildfires, father, wife, classmates, friends all placed in high positions.

This is why if they call in the army if they lose the election, would you be suprised? Or if the judge rule in their favour, would you be surprised?

The reward for supporters are outrageous. Every one of them are given multiple directorships $$$ for loyalty. Remember Ren Ci PAP MP got $600,000 interest free loan from GIC? Just go take the SIA plane and look at the drastic gaps between local citizens – rich and poor. Look and think carefully, the result of a total dominant 40+ years of having 1 party and absolute control.

Tetty on December 13th, 2009 12.57 am said: “Actually, the old man knows better than to call in the citizen army that the SAF is made of, in the event of a “freak election result”.

Tetty is very correct. LKY does not trust SAF. Its the Gurkhas he has full trust in. We are all aware of the presence of Gurkhas in Spore but I did not know its about 5000 strong. Likewise LKY can also issue directives one day to recruit Ah Tiongs from China. After all being a soldier in Peoples Liberation Army of China is considered a prestigious job in China, feed them clothe them and they are a contented lot. With a 1 billion population in China, it would only be a matter of time perhaps that we will see China soldier mercenaries similar to the Gurkha force in the near future if it works out.

But still SAF has access to tanks that can roll over these Gurkhas if the SAF generals wake up to the reality of peoples democracy which I seriously doubt they would since they are highly paid officers who are booking their places in GLCs in the afterlife after they have checked out of SAF in their 40s. In short, SAF generals will never betray LKY as they want their glorious executive careers after they have dumped their uniforms.

Stop spreading paranoia to the PAP’s benefit, u really believe that LKY will call in the army if they have lost the election, with or without conscription.

More likely they will grind the bureaucracy to a halt. Its true that the “no corruption” of

“Friends, classmates and elite associates all placed in strategic positions in government agencies, government linked companies, organisations to ensure undivided support and loyalty.”

runs deep.

Even if it means having the opposition voted in and lowering our standard of living just for the sake of “freaking out” the PAP, so be it.

We can always vote in the PAP again in the following election if the opposition cannot prove themselves.

“lowering our standard of living”

Why should voting in the opposition necessarily lower the standard of living? A lot of Singaporeans already feel it has been lowered by some of PAP’s policies.

2) My Views on December 13th, 2009 2.41 am

“Taiwan and Japan have natural resources and a much larger domestic market to fall back.”

You must think we are as ignorant as you. These countries have zero resources and not lucky as Singapore to be strategically located in the middle of a major shipping route.

The truth is that Singaporeans are suffering under the MIW. The policy of flooding this island with cheap foreign labour is ruining the nation. 6% of Singaporeans are unemployed and if you include locals on short term contracts, the figure is closer to 9%. 9% unemployment!!!

Those Singaporeans who have a job are no better off. Cheap foreign labour has suppressed the wages here that most Singaporeans earn barely enough to support themselves, let alone their families. If you were not sucking up so much, you would know that many Singaporean parents are struggling to put food on the table for their children. Joachim Lee of Tampines Family Services in appealing for donations for ‘Weareone’ said that one parent even had to dilute the milk for his baby because they didn’t have any money. Is this a 1st World country???

Explains to us the loss of more than 100 billion dollars by GIC and Temasek. Explain to us how a handicapped terrorists could limp his way out of Singapore.
Explain to us how Bukit Timah temporarily became our biggest reservoir or how our food centres could become breeding grounds for rats and other parasites.

The MIW are doing a very bad job. The are looking after their own interests.

Singaporeans want the opposition to take over power because he want to open up those closet doors and see how many skeletons there are inside. To let this opportunity to shine the light into that closet go by would be the greatest mistake of the 21st century.

19) Ally on December 13th, 2009 5.37 am

“Why can’t the writer imagine the opposition taking over from the PAP. We’ve too many years of people saying ‘we just want to put a dent in the PAP’s election showing’. That’s not demanding change. That still means a PAP government. ”

You’re absolutely right. Why settle for 1 GRC when we can have it all. Honestly, I believe the writer is secretly a YPAP member. They know they are going to lose very big this time and are now trying to do damage control, limiting the opposition to 2 or 3 seats.

We want Change and not a dent.

if lky call in the army.. hmm, aren’t most of us part of that army? although when i hear lky says that, it’s obvious to me that he is using the same fear mongering tactic again. we all heard the talks of when there is a real war, most of us will run, i’ll be honest, i’ll run when there is a real world war.

but if WE are to be part of that army lky is going to mobilise in case of a freak election, i don’t know about others, but judging from the morality of the guys from my last reservist, i believe most of us will stand up and fight, against lky. or am i wrong to think that? in any case, i am not giving in to that old man scare tactics.

“Think of the grave consequences! If the PAP were to lose one GRC, you guys could expect to see the stock market dives at least 50% with unemployment shooting the ceiling!.”

Does it mean that we are destined for the eternal perpetuation of a certain incumbent’s rule, not even one GRC must be lost. Is our governing mechanism so weak that one GRC cannot be lost if it turns against the incumbent party. Absorb that please.

“One or two GRCs will mean the government loses a few highly competent ministers overnight! What does it mean to the investors?”

They may not have the moral support of being ministers if they are voted but that should not be a constraining factor of relegating them to a super-scale government officers if they are worth their keep in order to assist the new ministers. If our PM can be assisted by MM & SM and many minister below, why then the same concept cannot be applied to fellow ministers.

A good mechanism must always be built into the system to ensure that no one is indispensable and contingent plan must always be in place to fall back on, even more so for important ministerial positions. It is more on the whole ministerial team rather relying on each individuals.

Do you not see that normal lay people are always subject to being replaced by better foreigners or fellow singaporeans in their own employment. Are you saying that our elites are made of weaker emotional & intelligent stuff.

Nov 30, 2009
5.9% residents jobless

AMID the gloom in the labour market, there is a silver lining.

Although the number of Singapore residents who lost their jobs hit 5.9 per cent in June – on a non-seasonally adjusted basis – older workers were able to stay on in the workforce at the record high level reached in 2008.

There were 116, 300 residents who were unemployed in June, significantly higher than the 4 per cent 76,200 a year ago. The rise was felt across all occupations and industries, according to the Labour Force Survey carried out in mid-2009 by the Ministry of Manpower’s Research and Statistics Department, which released the key findings on Monday morning.

But reflecting faster growth in the resident population, the number of resident workers went up by 3 per cent, after a rise of 2.7 per cent in June last year, and 2 per cent in 2007. As at June, there were 1.99 million residents in the labour force comprising 1.13 million (57 per cent men and 0.86 million (43 per cent) women.

The survey also found that among those in employment, the median income stabilised after rising significantly over the preceding two years.

Amid the global recession, the proportion of working residents aged 25 to 64 fell for the first time in six years to 75.8 per cent in June, from the peak of 77 a year ago. This mainly reflected the decline in employment rate for residents in the prime-working age group of 25 to 54 from 81.4 per cent to 80.1 per cent, the survey showed.

‘Even though it had decreased, the employment rate for prime-working age men in Singapore remained higher than in many developed and Asian economies,’ said the Ministry of Manpower (MOM).

Despite the economic downturn, the employment rate of older residents aged 55 to 64 remained at the record high of 57.2 per cent reached in 2008, said MOM, adding: ‘In fact, the rate for older men increased from 73.8 per cent in 2008 to a new high of 74.7 per cent in 2009, offsetting the slight decrease for older women from 40.5 per cent to 40.1 per cent.’

The survey also showed that as employers seek greater flexibility to manage manpower, term contract employment continued to increase, driven by those on short term contracts.

The Straits Times

“AMID the gloom in the labour market, there is a silver lining”.

Notice how the Shitty Times tries to make the bad news more palatable.

If the PAP supporters have any concern at all about the competence of their leadership and the plight of their countrymen, they should take a step back and take it on the chin (spoil your vote) to their own long term benefit.

It is an open secret that there are enough PRs and new citizens from PRC serving NS to form 2 battalions. It is this 2 battalions that will be called upon when there is a ‘freak’ election result. LOL.

Technically one only needs one reason to vote who ever.

Its my vote and my right to choose whom-ever without any justification.

Come on lah, they can make you vote for them, dont you know they are already so well inserted in our blogosphere in the form of sites that we all commonly label as oppositional sites, can go Singaporedaily, check out the side bar comments on the left side or even the latest comments on P65 blog written by Khartini. PAP will win. We need to be better at seeing fake from real, that is just my POV, thanks for allowing me to make this comment.

@ My views

“I do not recall Mr. Lee Kuan Yew having said he would bring in the army if there was ever a freak election. I believe he never made such a comment.”

“Without the elected president and if there is a freak result, within two or three years, the army would have to come in and stop it”
- Lee Kuan Yew on what would happen if a profligate opposition government touched Singapore’s vast monetary reserves, Straits Times, Sept 16 2006

Tetty on December 13th, 2009 12.57 am

“In the event of a “freak election result”, these 5000 shock mercenary troops will hit out and secure all key locations, i.e centres of control, power plants, public utility infrastructures, and voila, PAP is back into power again because they have saved the people from their own stupidity.”

Then they will also have to secure ALL ARMY CAMPS as well, because there is where all the weaponary is. I can imagine our NS MEN and NSF clashing with the gurkhas!! HAHA…..

It is quite interesting how some (or many) people think that the opposition cannot run Singapore economically well as well. They seemed to have regard PAP as best in the business in running a country very much like a business.

Whatever lack of natural resources and challenges we face, we must always be creative and committed in dealing with our problems. Any ruling party will face the same problem, PAP or not.

It doesn’t mean if in the event of a ‘freak accident’, a wholesale change in policy will happen. It should not be of any political party’s interest to turn a ‘golden goose’ to a ‘dead duck’.

Listen to what every party has to say, if they resonate with you, vote for them.

The writer doesn’t want the Opposition to ‘take over’ the country and yet ‘plans’ to put a dent in the current ruling party. How does one go about this plan without entertaining the possibility of a ‘freak accident’?

I am grateful to the internet. At least, the voice of all opposing parties can reach a little further and a little wider, so that I can make a (slightly) better judgement the next time I cast my vote.

Unless PAP really starts listening, the dissenting ‘noises’ of the people will get louder and louder as it has over the years. And these noises which had been, for a long time, just easily contained noises are becoming purposeful voices. And these voices eventually, I hope, will be transformed and realized the true potential of their real power. The real power of a single vote.

Thumbs Up to the Author for the honest opinion.

I have a chant for the next GE ” Enough is enough , vote them out !” .

1) Forced Labor/slavery (National Service)
2) Death Penalty for Non-Violent Crimes
3) No freedom of expression & assembly
4) Overpaid Ministers
5) State Owned & Controlled Media
6) Systematic discrimination of Malays in the army
7) Allowing Foreign Populations to become the majority 10-20 years from now
8) Detain political prisoners without trial
9) Allowing Foreigners who could not speak or write english , to work in Singapore
10) Unfair political advantage (GRC system)

9) Allowing Foreigners who could not speak or write english , to work in the service sector in Singapore

All the writer is trying to get out from Singaporeans is a change. Unfortunately most Singaporeans are in their comfort zone. Well, the reality is quite the reverse. It’s time to stop and smell the dead roses. The comfort zone is an illusion created by the incumbent. We wake up, we work hard, to pretend to live a comfortable life, when in fact we are barely surviving. majority of us will probably never see and enjoy the fruits of our labour, due to the restrictions disguised as policies cooked up by the CPF board. We will see our jobs get taken by cheaper labour, we will see our grandfathers working in the checkout counters in MacDonald’s while their grandchildren leave the messy tables for them to clear. Not knowing they will probably end up the same or worse cos they have to work till the day they die or be sent to another country to be taken care of cos the medical cost here are too high.

Who are we living for? The government or for ourselves. We choose how we want to live, so let’s choose a government that will help protect us and our lives. I am grateful for what the government has done in the past, but their interest have strayed. They themselves admit that they are running a city not a country, depending on which day they choose to rule it. What we need is a government to help their own, their brothers, sisters, uncles, fathers not the people living in this city. We are not people, we are sons and daughters born from this land.

If we have to change and start over, face hardships because of change, I gladly do that than stand still. We probably end up stronger in the end.

rizal, with due respect, all the grievances you raised up mean little to pragmatic Singaporeans. How many people are starving in Singapore? How high is the income tax? How expensive is medicine? How expensive is our public transport? How much crime is there in Singapore? How dirty are our streets? How expensive are our schools? The incumbent government has done such a great job at inculcating pragmatism into its citizens, I actually feel excited rather than sad that I’m gonna “quit” this country very soon. How much does patriotism cost anyway?

OriginalResonance, I am well aware that such issues are usually ignored by pragmatic Singaporeans which is a shame. The intentionally ineffective and limited civic education that we have is , i believed, the main cause of the pragmatical attitude that the majority of Singaporeans have adopted. They have not yet realize the importance of those social and political issues until they are either directly or indirectly ‘victimized’ by it, which by then would already be too late.
Could we live with such issues at the expense of our conscience?

talk so much…jus vote how you feel~ and for those that cite subjective points pls gather some facts

Money is still the holy grail for most anglophone countries. That’s why when we talk about pragmatism in these countries, we’re essentially talking about materialism. Pragmatism per se is actually a compelling ideology in the case of many countries out there that all define success as the achievement of a specific quality, regardless of methodology. All that are pernicious about such a mentality are merely incidental e.g extremism, apathy, materialism etc. I think that pragmatism, when utilized proficiently, can be the ultimate source of good in life. If PAP or any other party were to be pragmatic about moulding a civic-conscious society, who’s to say that they would fail? What PAP needs to do now is to open up and understand the efficacy of soft power. What good is GDP if citizens are unhappy?

Alot of MIW suckups these days in the forum.
Be Vigilant! :p

#53 you know, sometimes I just get the feeling that people are just blaming all of their woes in life on PAP. They are not really interested in what’s best for the country. They just wanna bash PAP to convince themselves that their failure is not their fault but the government’s. Which is why when I asked for an example of a party that can replace PAP, everyone evaded the question. Yet they can be concurrently so convinced that any opposition would be better than PAP. Juvenile at best, selfish at worst.

No chance to vote also. Walkover everytime.

#54 “Juvenile at best, selfish at worst.” Don’t be so hard on yourself. :)

Under any normal administration, any one of all the grave major debacle of the MIW, would have had already qualified punitive inquiries and termination, let alone dragged on for comic relief here or anywhere for discussion.

The fact that anyone in its right mind can still wax lyrical about how great rotten meat smells only means one thing; scavengers at best, MIW suckups at worst; or versa versa, whichever way smells more rotten to you, feel free. :)

PS: Both SDP and WP and/or even RP have good candidates. You just need to want to listen more and understand their core mission. Not all great men in history need to have a Harvard or Cambridge piece of toilet paper to clean their trails. A good, kind, firm and fair heart goes a long way.

PS: Enough of this rubbish talk of how great MIW was. All hardcore criminals weren’t born. They started off “normal” till they started being a DANGER to society. Gratitude notwithstanding, justice is blind.
Reward the good and punish the bad.
Simple.

Much as I agree with the idea to wake up their ideas, which I think the PAP is prepared for anyway by allowing more non-PAP representation in Parliament, I think Singaporeans would not feel any more “liberalised” or has more sense of “freedom” even with bigger Opposition. The fact is we have already placed a premium on stability and security. More speech freedom will not exchange more economic growth or opportunity. Taiwan lived with DPP for 2 terms and where did it get Taiwan? Instead of seizing the opportunities to tap on China’s growth, Taiwan missed the boat. Ma Ying Jeou has a tough job, just like Obama, to fix a faltering economy. Take heart. Singapore doesn’t the the luxury to make such mistakes.

Think carefully about your vote and how it affects not yourself but the generations to come.

33% of the electorate always vote for the opposition.

All it takes is another 18% of those who voted for the MIW to swing their votes and the opposition could come into power, that is, less than 1 in 3 of those who had voted for the MIW previously to change to the opposition.

I used to vote for the MIW every elections. But we were living in a Singapore filled with Singaporeans, all committed to this nation.

But the MIW have become blinded by greed and flooded this island with cheap foreign labour. Singaporean males who are doing reservists are at a disadvantage to cheap foreign labour when it comes to getting a job. So are Singapore women who get pregnant. Young couples cannot get a new flat because foreigners have raised the price in the resale market too high for them.

Step out of your home and you will be surrounded by people all speaking a different language.

All it needs is 1 out of 3 Singaporeans to swing their votes to the opposition. I am one of them. I am voting for change. I am voting for a better Singapore free of tyranny and injustice.

Will you be the 1 out of 3?

whiter than white? I certainly dont think so. With their relentless and nonsensical propaganda, brainwashing students and adults today. Obfuscating the very truths which we the citizens deserve to know.

They ought to be stop before they drive sg to a dead end.

amteel,

True the DDP missed the opportunity to make Taiwan better, resulting in the KMT returning to power. But is the KMT a better, less arrogant party because of its former defeat?

Will the PAP be a better party if we keep voting it back into power because we fear an incompetent opposition, or would it grow more and more arrogant?

Think carefully about your vote and how it affects not yourself but the generations to come.

One and only reason: We need a stronger opposition presence in our government to ensure higher degree of transparency. The excuse that the seemingly petty nitpicking would affect efficiency and effectiveness may have some truth to it, but I’ll gladly take slight interruptions (because seriously, it’s not like the existing government boards are actually efficient right now haha) for representatives to speak up for more balanced viewpoints on issues that concern the larger picture.

#11 Reason
=========

i cannot vote because i always feel nausea after hearing these:

- mee siam mai hum
- raise GST to help the poor
- his crazy laughter, and u wonder what is the joke?

i cannot also vote because i see these scenes too often:

- his sissy walking together with other foreign state of heads (please, please, u are a ex army BG, can walk properly or not, ok ok?)
- wearing their white shirt and pants. U know to maintain their fresh clean look of white, it also means they cannot go to the dirty places of singapore. Like sit down at your local hawker centre, go wet market. So how to interact with the locals?
- intimidating / jailing political opponents. Come on, if you got substance, no need to be afraid of them.

Perhaps by voting PAP out, they can know the meaning of serving the public and been humble.

33.3% voted for Opposition in the last election.
What we got was 2 Opposition MP out of 80 plus.

Does it TALLY?

How to Rationalise this?

For this reason …

I would counter ask :

What happens if we continue to vote for …. ahem….?
What will be coming our way for another 5 more years?
What happens if only 1 opposition wins a seat?

2:80 plus is a pathetic situation.

How to object even if they want to object any bills? What an amazing situation to occur in a 1st world.

Can it become more pathetic-until-cannot? Yes : 1:80plus.
And i not sure if this 80plus will become 90? i no no wor. u know meh?

I am worried by rhetorics about having a 1 party system where there is no , as in Zero, opposition mp. Some have praises for a 1 party system in a democracy.

what will come our way if the parliament have no opposition? what kind of debate can we see on tv covering parliament sessions?

which 1st world Democracy has 1 party system?
which 1st world Democracy is 1 party-dominant for half a Century, in a row?

Guys and Gals, your decision cannot be simpler this time round.

Hmm.

Perhaps we should take a look at the rest of the writer’s blog to see what kind of demographic he belongs to.

Look at his current standard of living, and his other views.

Just a suggestion.

“Which is why when I asked for an example of a party that can replace PAP, everyone evaded the question.”

It is like asking which new group of potential entrants who have barely gone to work is most likely to replace the board of Microsoft.

Not evading ? Such question is too early of being asked.

“Yet they can be concurrently so convinced that any opposition would be better than PAP.”

Counter checking mechanism is important. It is just like paying for a few hundred dollars worth of security devices to watch over your personal properties & safety which are worth many times over.

Whether MM Lee/ PAP likes it or not: no ruler/ party/ dynasty can rule forever.

The Qing Dynasty rules China for 266 years but still fall in the end. Try telling that they will not last forever to the top Qing rulers like Qian Long is like telling that to MM Lee now.

Real check and balances are necessary to ensure Singapore’s long term good and survival. There is an old and wise saying “Absolute power corrupts absolutely”.

There is no point guessing can opposition do the job.
Don’t think. Do it.
Give them 5 years and then assess them.
Guess is no use. You can guess yes or no. that means nothing.
Let them prove their worth by doing the job.

The economy : get an economist.
The accounting : get an accountant.

etc.

“Which is why when I asked for an example of a party that can replace PAP, everyone evaded the question.”

When Sun Yat Sen and his revolutionary army overthrow the Qing dynasty, did they ask themselves who can replace the Qing ? Did Sun cowardly evade the question ? Or did he even find it foolish to entertain such a question at desperate time ? Did Qing emperor ask Sun the same question ? It make me wonder how stupid can Singaporean be to raise such a question. Do you think the whole personal of PAP will be replaced all at once ?

54) OriginalResonance on December 13th, 2009 4.58 pm

Explain how anyone can lose $100 billion dollars belonging to the people of Singapore and still hold on to their jobs?

Explain how a handicapped terrorists with a severe limp can escape from a maximum security prison here and walk his way out of Singapore and no one is held responsible?

Time for Change.

“Which is why when I asked for an example of a party that can replace PAP, everyone evaded the question.”

Everyone is right. This is a stupid question. Right now there unemployment among Singaporeans is about 9% if you include those on short term contract of 3 months or less. Foreigners enjoy full employment here.

The fact is that as the economy grows and more jobs are created, more foreigners will get the jobs and more Singaporeans will be unemployed.

Stop asking silly questions about which opposition to vote for. I will vote for a bunch of monkeys if the opposition fields them to contest my GRC. Any change is better than the present course we are heading on.

I am just sad that threre are some Singaporeans who cannot see that.

#66 and #69 To sum it up, what you’re essentially saying is that anyone should get a try-out as long as he opposes PAP. Then, we’ll assess his performance and decide on the appropriate action in the next election 5 years later. After all, who knows what will happen in the future? Would America have become a global superpower if they didn’t take a risk and rebel against Britain? (Historical reference – checked)

“I will vote for a bunch of monkeys if the opposition fields them to contest my GRC.”

Ah, finally someone explicitly state what I’ve already observed all this while. This is nothing more than reactive vitriol from someone who revels in hatred and blaming rather than the well-being of Singapore. Enough said.

57) amteel on December 13th, 2009 5.35 pm

Stop talking about Taiwan.

Is Taiwan flooding its island with cheap foreign labour and treating its own people as 3rd class citizens?

.

@54) OriginalResonance on December 13th, 2009 4.58 pm

“…..#53 you know, sometimes I just get the feeling that people are just blaming all of their woes in life on PAP. They are not really interested in what’s best for the country. They just wanna bash PAP to convince themselves that their failure is not their fault but the government’s. Which is why when I asked for an example of a party that can replace PAP, everyone evaded the question….”

So, paying themselves millions buck salaries is best for the country? Wonder why that didn’t win Singapore the Nobel Prize, instead it going to some guy drawing only one-fifth that our top gun’s pay.

So nicky-picky on grammar yet can’t even provide a convincing argument. With 98% of parliament being PAP (coming from only 34% of voters), does anyone expects to bash the 2% opposition over failed policies? So, we should blame and kick ourselves that (what?) 100b of our monies got blown by GIC/TH, and not the FM who doesn’t even seem to have a lease on these Inc.? The “don’t blame others, blame yourself” routine sure sounds like trying to divert accountability. We blew $250m on Baby Bonus in 2008; which minister(s) is accountable for this failed scheme? Oh, blame the common Singaporeans again, right? — money was simply thrown at a problem, no result, so just act blur? Yeah, MSK escaped, so the Gurkhas got the blame.

Sure, is like a govt can have a drop-in anytime. Which party in Iraq can replace Saddam Hussein currently? No credible opposition party of equivalent strength does means the incumbent is adored by the masses. I am sure many in Iraq would saluted that guy with the single finger. So, that doesn’t means Singaporeans should resign to the status quo. If the incumbent isn’t the govt that Singaporeans want, then we owe it to ourselves to build what we need — and this may not mean success with the first tries. We have just never experienced change, so the cooling off day and bogeyman tactics are just to swing voters back into submission.

PS. at least being pedantry doesn’t cost millions of tax-payers monies while doing a screwed up job.

Also, courtesy means giving reference to the post in question. But our courtesy campaigns were failure, right? Oh, I forgot — blame the people, not the govt.

73) OriginalResonance on December 13th, 2009 8.59 pm

You must be really worried about the future of your political masters.

Let me give you a word of advice. The MIW ship is sinking. Whether it goes under in this election or the next, nothing will stop it from being an unfortunate part of our history.

Even our wise leader, MM Lee had openly said that PAP will be out in another two elections. Who are you, an ardent bootlicker of the MIW, to disagree with him.

Leave the sinking ship now before it is too late and you have to do down with it.

“So, paying themselves millions buck salaries is best for the country?”

My contention is with the fact that many here would rather dislodge PAP from power by opting for a joke like CSJ or even monkeys. Which is clearly a display of disregard for the country’s future. Say what you like about PAP. They are the lesser of two evils at the moment.

OriginalResonance,

Your presence here is upsetting many people. I am sorry to say you are not intelligent enough to convince us to switch our votes to the MIW. You are doing your political masters a disfavour.

I am sure you will get better results on P65. LOL.

Thanks for your advice, New Era. I’m actually leaving in 4 months time. To the disgruntled Singaporean, I’m a quitter. But to me, I’m someone who took charge of my circumstances instead of whining about how things do not go as I wish. It’s becoming ad nauseam but CSJ became insolvent, protesters in Tiananmen were massacred, Gandhi and Martin Luther King were assasinated and Aung San Suu Kyi is still in house arrest. Anyone saw the common denominator in these events?

“ut our courtesy campaigns were failure, right? Oh, I forgot — blame the people, not the govt.”

If there is a “Point A Middle Figure Against SIN gov” Campaign , I have no slightest doubt that this will be the most successful campaign in the history of Singapore .

“ut our courtesy campaigns were failure, right? Oh, I forgot — blame the people, not the govt.”

If there is a “Point A Middle Finger Against SIN gov” Campaign , I have no slightest doubt that this will be the most successful campaign in the history of Singapore .

“Your presence here is upsetting many people. ”

Truth is rarely subservient to populism. At least to those who know the truth. Allow me to present to you guys today’s “truth of the day”: Not all critics of the opposition are advocates of PAP.

Well written article.

Although there is one factual error. LKY never said he will send in the army in the event of a ‘freak’ election. That was Catherine Lim’s question.. “will you send in the army in the event of a freak election”

LKY’s response to that question was a very LONGWINDED sermon (about 3-5mins) on the futility of sending the army in as seen in Africa countries and how Singapore has a more sophisticated response- the elected presidency. So in fact, he meant no, he is smarter than that.

The quote came at the end of his 5 mins soliloquy when he said IF Singapore had NO elected presidency (which is his boast on Singapore’s sophisticated approach), he will have to send in the army.

The reason why i am certain is because I was at the forum. So the quote in #15 is correct, just that no one noticed the emphasis “without the elected presidency.”
(which is odd addition to a topic of army and elections, if one thinks abt it)

RW you shouldn’t have said what you just said. No one here seems to want to hear facts. You might even invite ridicule for your genuine efforts.

The PAP has put food on our table, but they have neglected the food for our minds. They might have put money in our economy, but the currency in our spirits is weak.

However, the open engagement I see here, in TOC, is encouraging and should give us certain hope.

The ruling party is paying attention to this site, I’m sure, and hopefully their reaction is a positive evolution in their policies, and not the insecure tactics that we have come to be very familiar with.

My vote will always stay open and to be won over on every election.

I can imagine Singaporeans would want the PayandPay to hold a 2/3 majority power to change any bills and passes laws with ease without any hindrance. How can we sell our birth rights to a party that has lose sight of the people. We cannot have a parliament control by payandpay, executive powers controlled by payandpay and Judiciary Powers appointed by payandpay. We are left with no accountability and scraps of information everytime something goes wrong as everything is supposingly covered up by the press. We cannot allowed our children to be servants to the ruling party. And continued to pay protection fees of millions of dollars to these bloody thirsty greedy pigs to make lousy decisions and lask of foresights and something like a freak incident every 50 years. Enough of their nonsense. I say give them a trashing this election.

“Thanks for your advice, New Era. I’m actually leaving in 4 months time. To the disgruntled Singaporean, I’m a quitter. But to me, I’m someone who took charge of my circumstances instead of whining about how things do not go as I wish. ”

If you going to leave the country and be a quitter, why not leave in peace ? Why even agitate the people here who will want to stay in SIN. Just because you believe that you are taking charge by leaving Singapore, the rest has to follow suit ? Just because people here are voicing out the unhappiness over the gov here, they are not taking charge of their life ? So you are upsetting the people who can’t see what you trying to convey ? And does that make you happy and satisfy now ?

If you going to leave anyway, why not just leave the rest alone, especially if you intend to be a “quitter”.

Army will intervene in freak elections: MM Lee
Reuters
15 Sep 06

Singapore’s former leader Lee Kuan Yew defended his party’s political dominance, saying it was vital for the predominantly ethnic Chinese state to stand up to its bigger, majority-Muslim neighbours, Indonesia and Malaysia.

Lee, a founder of the People’s Action Party (PAP) that has ruled Singapore uninterrupted since independence in 1965, also criticised Singapore’s tiny opposition parties on Friday, saying the city-state would eventually collapse if they were elected.

“We need a government that will have the gumption and skill to say ‘no’ to our neighbours in a very quiet and polite way that doesn’t provoke them into doing something silly,” said Lee at a forum on the sidelines of the World Bank-International Monetary Fund (IMF) meetings in the island republic.

“My main critics want me to be as liberal, open and contentious and adversarial with the opposition as the West,” said Lee, who was independent Singapore’s prime minister from 1965 to 1990.

Lee and former U.S. Treasury Secretary Lawrence Summers were the key speakers at the forum.

Those who wanted Singapore to embrace a more liberal style of democracy failed to see the limits of its geography, said Lee, whose son, Lee Hsien Loong, is Singapore’s prime minister.

Lee Kuan Yew, who turns 83 on Saturday, holds the title of Minister Mentor in his son’s cabinet.

Lee said the attitude of neighbouring Malaysia and Indonesia towards Singapore was shaped by the way they treat their own ethnic Chinese minorities.

“Our neighbours both have problems with their Chinese. They are successful. They are hardworking and therefore they are systemically marginalised,” he said.

Indonesia and Malaysia “want Singapore, to put it simply, to be like their Chinese — compliant”, Lee said.

Although Singapore and Malaysia have deep economic ties, relations between the two countries which separated in 1965 after a brief union, have often been prickly.

Relations between Singapore and Indonesia hit a low in 1998 when then-President B.J. Habibie referred to Singapore as a little red dot in a sea of green — a reference to the fact the city-state of 4.4. million people is surrounded by two large, predominantly Muslim countries.

Lee acknowledged that there was growing support for opposition parties among Singapore’s voters, but said the office of the elected presidency had been put in place to prevent a profligate opposition government from touching the island’s vast monetary reserves.

“Without the elected president and if there is a freak result, within two or three years, the army would have to come in and stop it,” Lee said.

“Just because people here are voicing out the unhappiness over the gov here, they are not taking charge of their life”

What else could it be? Complaining and casting their meagre votes against PAP won’t effect any significant change. Why not do something more constructive? By the looks of things, I suggest a lesson in logic 101.

“If you going to leave anyway, why not just leave the rest alone, especially if you intend to be a “quitter”.

The same reason why TOC post articles on the president of America and human rights issues in Burma.

83) RW on December 13th, 2009 9.28 pm

RW, he did say it. Ms Lim just wanted to know if he was serious or was it just bluster.

vote in those MIW and you will have to chance to see all the newly built ERP gantries will comes into effect when they gained another 5 more years of ruling singapore, they do really need money, and alot alot of them too.

Poor wui, getting a -2 rating for airing his neutral views. I’m off for good. This is more of a site for PAP polemics than Singaporeans.

just cannot imagine total revenues collected last year alone is $30billions from the taxpayers and you see more and more old folks suffering, where are all the money gone to?

#88: New Era

Thank you for putting the article up for all to make an informed judgement. :)

As mentioned in my previous comment in #83,
“LKY’s response to that question was a very LONGWINDED sermon (about 3-5mins) on the futility of sending the army in as seen in Africa countries and how Singapore has a more sophisticated response- the elected presidency. So in fact, he meant no, he is smarter than that.

The quote came at the end of his 5 mins soliloquy when he said IF Singapore had NO elected presidency (which is his boast on Singapore’s sophisticated approach), he will have to send in the army.

The reason why i am certain is because I was at the forum. So the quote in #15 is correct, just that no one noticed the emphasis “without the elected presidency.”
(which is odd addition to a topic of army and elections, if one thinks abt it)”

Something to Tell and Share
‘Sir, would you send in the army?’
On 2 Sept 2009, I was one of the guests at a dinner to celebrate the fifth anniversary of the Lee Kuan Yew School of Public Policy. During the dialogue session, I asked Minister Mentor a question about a certain possible, though not probable, political scenario that had intrigued me for years. Suppose a freak election took place; what would the PAP do? Would MM send in the army? By way of softening the rather controversial nature of the question, I made sure there was a friendly, humorous preamble. So I addressed MM thus: ‘Some years ago I was giving a talk to some British businessmen, giving my usual spiel about Singapore politics, civic liberties,etc. During the question and answer session,one of the businessmen raised his hand and said, ‘ I’ve a question, or rather a suggestion. Why don’t you give us your Lee Kuan Yew, and we give you in exchange our Tony Blair, with Cherie Blair thrown in?’ I replied, ‘Mr Lee won’t like your noisy, messy, rambunctious democracy.’ He said, ‘No matter’, and went on to remark that if there were but five Lee Kuan Yews scattered throughout Africa, the continent wouldn’t be in such a direful state today. After this light-hearted sharing, I have a question: Sir, in the event of a serious threat of a freak election, would you do the unthinkable, that is, send in the army?’

http://catherinelim.sg/

RW, please clarify. The forum with Ms Lim was in Sept 2009, while MM Lee originally made the statement in an interview with Reuters in September 2006. Were you there in the interview with Reuters. or are you trying your best to mislead us?

RW, why are you trying to pull the wool over our eyes.

Are you part of the internet brigade?

RW, were you “at a forum on the sidelines of the World Bank-International Monetary Fund (IMF) meetings in the island republic” in 2006 when he first made that statement.

Please answer the question. Are you trying to confuse us?

“RW you shouldn’t have said what you just said. No one here seems to want to hear facts. You might even invite ridicule for your genuine efforts.”

Obviously it is good to have facts as it will ensure that all misplaced conceptions fall into line. Could RW please guide us to the full transcript of the whole 5 mins plus Catherine’s question so that proper perspective and context can be placed. I can only find bits and pieces of it but not the uninterrupted flow of the full transcript.

Most of us are more concerned in the lack of facts not more of it.

As for the elected presidency RW brought up, it is quite a long while since the last time we went for one.

#90 New Era:

Ah, what i am saying is that it is in the context of the elected presidency.
If Singapore does not have an elected president, the army will have to be called in.

But his main point is sg has a ‘better’ system- an elected president, which negates the need for it.

I’ll google and see if there is a full transcript somewhere.

—————

#84: ORiginalResonance

“RW you shouldn’t have said what you just said. No one here seems to want to hear facts. You might even invite ridicule for your genuine efforts.”

Nah, i don’t think it is a partisan debate and i am not personally partisan.
The reason why i read this forum is precisely to make sure i don’t have a systematic bias towards mainstream media.
IMO, many people read this forum precisely for the same reason-
because they are not pro any side, but they want to hear different sides and make and informed choice.

(QUOTING) OriginalResonance on December 13th, 2009 4.58 pm

“Which is why when I asked for an example of a party that can replace PAP, everyone evaded the question.” (END QUOTE)

The reason why everyone evaded the question is because of the fear factor in Singapore more than the capabilities of the PAP.

We need the kind of people like Lim Hock Siew, Lim Chin Siong, Chia Thye Poh to replace the PAP. Look what happened to them? It is the deliberate actions of the PAP to fix the opposition for their continued power in the country. First it was jail, then it was defamation suits. And the PAP has continually attacked particular people who could be of a threat to them in the recent GEs.

For a start, we can vote some opposition members. We wouldn’t really miss some of the PAP MPs anyway since it is common knowledge that they hold other sources of income such as Directorship, Chairmanship, Advisory, Consultancy, etc to government-linked and government-related organisations or foreign MNCs. There are plenty of empty seats in parliament if you have noticed.

(QUOTE) They just wanna bash PAP to convince themselves that their failure is not their fault but the government’s. (END QUOTE)

The PAP has its fair share of blaming the people and to forces outside their control when things go wrong. And things have gone horribly wrong in the last 5 years. Any objective measure will indicate the failings of the PAP in the last 5 years. They will have to accept huge defeats in the next elections, cooling day or no cooling day.

@79
Since you are leaving in 4 months time, to stay on an island, (assuming your anarchic leanings) I bid you adieu. Have an enjoyable life, do not worry about Singapore, She is in able hands.

We can understand how singaporeans feel, what the PAP govt did for the past 40+ years, but what they did in the beginning of our country was a group of men who really want to see Singapore to succeed, they really want us to be dependent and making friends with superpowers.

Now this group of men, think that without them, Singapore will not survived. I strongly disagreed. Just like Japan which have a change of government, it been mths we have not hear of any adverse report coming out of the country, so the opp did well for these few mths.

Malaysia use to be rule by BN with big majority, now they do not have 2/3 majority, is the country still the same as before, yes it is.

Singapore will continue to move forward which ever govt is in place, cos we have friends all over who will support any govt elected by the people.

So the PAP is worried because of many change of govt all over the world, and they do not like to be LDP of Japan to go over to be the Opp. They want to rule till the earth died.

OriginalResonance ,

Again, could you live with such issues at the expense of your own conscience? A high quality of life is not solely dependent on money. Success should be measured based on the quality of the human condition which is determined by many factors that indirectly includes money. Forgive me for answering my own question, but no i would not live in ignorance of such issues even if i have all the money in the world and entitled to subsidized health care and education because i am not a selfish and uncaring person who ,for example, do not give a shit to what happens to a person who is sentenced to the gallows for importing a drug that is less harmful than cigarette and alcohol. The country will not progress if we are very accepting of the current flawed public policies. What the PAP needs to do is generally to be more liberal and (look at my top ten list). People pretty much hated the PAP because of most if not all of the issues i brought up.

I believe that the worker’s party is a more able and better government than the PAP. But we wouldn’t really know that unless we could give them an opportunity. I’ve heard some silly excuses from many PAP advocates that Singapore could not afford to vote for any opposition parties because the economy would sink and everyone would become poor and unemployed. LOL.

47. I expect government-affiliated institutions to not indulge themselves with luxuries when other citizens have bread-butter problems:

When NTUC income unilaterally announced major cuts in its bonus for insurance-policy-holders, the MAS allowed this to happen. NTUC income claimed financial woes, but took HUNDREDS of agents to Australia for an exorbitant expense-paid holiday as they made the announcement earlier this year! Do they think about the widows and orphans when they dine fine with wine?

At first I could not believe NTUC Income to be capable of this, then I checked on the web and saw the NTUC CEO hugging 2 BIKINI girls and drinking champagne in Australia too.
(i) ms-my.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1550459&id=36541001838&ref=mf

(ii) ms-my.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1549575&id=36541001838&ref=mf

48. I expect the MAS to protect citizens financially too:

When thousands of investors lost their life savings in the mini-bond fiasco, where was the government? Unlike the Hong Kong government which had exerted pressure on its local banks to compensate a minimum sum to its minibond holders, the Singapore authorities chose to stay out of the matter.. MM even chided Singapore investors for “walking in with their eyes open” and therefore did not deserve a compensation. (from TemasekReview 1 Dec)

49. I have 1 more issue with the state Media Press. HOW can they publish photos of people suspected of crimes when they have not EVEN been convicted? Imagine the tarnishing to the poor suspect’s reputation if he were innocent! It is not as if the guy can sue ST and get $400,000 in defamation compensation.

I can give you 50 reasons

1. I want to buy a house without paying a Cash-Over-Value of $100,000

2. I don’t want to be accused of being fussy if I don’t want to live on the first floor or basement bomb shelter, or ulu ulu places like Kusu Island

3. I don’t want keep hearing that flats are “affordable” when I really cannot afford flats.

4. I don’t want to see foreigners flood our condos, HDB estates, MRT trains, buses, schools, EVERYWHERE

5. I don’t want to know about how ministers are getting lots of landed and prime property both local and overseas when I have trouble getting a 3-room flat.

6. I don’t want ministers who get multi-million dollar salaries when I do odd jobs and some months I don’t make more than $2,000.

Ministers in other countries may take bribes and embezzle. My ministers are smarter, they get more money claiming more MILLIONS in salary LEGALLY.

7. I don’t want to pay ERP just because foreigners’ cars are clogging my roads. Especially, when ERP do not solve congestion problems!!! We still have terrible traffic jams!

8. I don’t want to do NS and reservist to protect my country against foreign invaders when:
(A) I don’t have a house to protect
(B) I cannot afford to start a family to protect
(C) I have to protect foreigners and their property with my life when they run away during war.
(D) Foreigner PRs do not have to serve
(E) I get paid worse than a Bangala worker. To think that National Service needed people donation’s in 1967, after a year, it gathered S$ 3 million from Singaporeans when we were all so poor.

9. I do not want to see PRs and New citizens flashing their blue and pink ICs on their national days.

10. I do not want to see the shamelessness of importing foreign athletes and claims that Singapore won when a foreigner won. Oh yes, we pay these foreigners millions of dollars so that Singapore can claim that it won. WOW!

11. I do not want to hear jeering against the SG local soccer teams from foreigner spectators when we play against other countries IN OUR OWN COUNTRY!

12. I don’t want to pay 7% more for everything I buy in my whole life when the government gives my $200 in “compensation” handouts!

13. I want to see a local student being the top student. Not some China kid. Not hearing from ours kids that there is no point to work hard as some foreigner is going to squeeze them down inevitably.

14. When there is public curiosity, I expect my government (especially Law minister) to be transparent enough let us know about Temasek and HDB cost to build a flat, etc.

15. I want my country to be known as a COUNTRY. My country is NOT just a city like some idiot claims.

16. I don’t want LHL’s son to be the next succeeding prime minister.

17. I don’t like how China suckered us in the Suzhou park initiative and we still have to kiss their assess.

18. I cannot understand why local siblings cannot buy flats when foreigner PR siblings can buy flats.

19. Singles are not allowed to buy flats before 35? Are singles supposed to be forced into marriage just because of this? By the time singles reach 35, the flat prices will be higher by $100,000 to $300,000. These singles worked very hard to scrimp and save only to see savings ERODED away by inflation!

20. I do not want to read the paper when it is pro-PAP and there is major censorship and selective publishing and late publishing for what cannot be hidden.

21. I don’t want my life-savings to be belittled as the salt on the “peanuts”.

22. I don’t like it when my country’s reserves lost tens of billions of dollars and the PM’s wife can still head Temasek!

23. I want important national assets key to our security like power stations to BELONG to our country, not sold to foreigners.

24. I like to add hum to my mee siam by the way.

25. I want a president who actually DOES more. Not one which who I seek shakes hands, seldom speaks, does not even pardon and spare a 19-year-old kid his life. Not a president who kids confuse with Mas Selamat (Many kids who know Mas Selamat do not EVEN know Nathan)

26. I don’t want to have my next national day parade at the silly riverside place….AGAIN! How long does it take to make a stadium? We are a country but we don’t even have a national stadium?? How about loaning Malaysia’s Merdeka Stadium for Singapore’s National day?

27. I want job security. A contract for 1 or 2 years, Then look for work again. The cycle repeats. We have to worry for our jobs and livelihoods on a daily basis. When we are over 40 years old, who want us anymore? I might as well join the army as sign on. But wait, that is contract TOO!

28. I don’t want the next generation to suffer like me in university. I had to work part-time to support my uni fees in NUS, while foreign students get free uni education thanks to MOE PLUS $500 allowance every month. After that, NUS still has the cheek to call me up and ask me to donate to NUS. Why they need money? They lost hundreds of millions of endowment in the financial crisis. I can still remember working and saving for 3 months before I could afford a 2nd hand laptop.

29. I want to protest in the streets to voice my discontent without being put to jail by the ISA act or made bankrupt. For goodness sake, I don’t even dare to accept Singtel’s offer of giving me free 6 months internet if I switch from Starhub to Singtel, because I am scared that my IP address and my name will be blacklisted by the government. (considering Singtel’s afflictions with the govt)

30. I want an opposition party in power. Any opposition is welcome. As educated and smart as my current and soon-to-be-ex ministers may be, I want people who CARE and LISTEN. Even if it is a guy who had graduated from kindergarten would be welcomed if he cares.

31. Elites who have been born with a silver spoon, who never had trouble finding a job, who never had money difficulties, who never went hungry, who breezed through NS, do NOT deserve my respect nor should they be in the government. We need people who UNDERSTAND what it is like at the pits and bottom! Not some shortie who claims to understand hardship with a childhood living in 3-room flat but marries an angmoh and lives in a landed mansion.

32. I want a better electoral system! I don’t want WALK-OVERs again. Some of the seniors did not even get to vote ONCE in their whole lives. How is that democracy?

33. I want fairness. Is it a coincidence that certain estates under certain members of our government are especially well-cared for with upgrading etc incentives? Is this fair? Are residents of areas under the opposition similarly cared for? I quote a resident from Potong Pasir “the lifts here are so old and I can’t climb the flight of stairs to reach my place anymore.” I supposed the 60 year old aunty would be forced to vote for PAP to get new lifts.

34. I want a limit to the number of years the PM can hold office, so that as bad and as lousy as the PM is, we can at least have a chance to start afresh.

35. I want small quotas/ratios legislated for foreigners.

36. I want foreigners to be restricted to less than 20% of our population instead of 36%.

37. Horsie actually said that foreigner PRs were under-represented in HDB flats. Pah! No more than 2 flats in a block should be sold to PRs! Otherwise, how can the many old uncles and aunties have pocket money for retirement by renting out flats?

38. I want their CPF contribution percent to be much higher and that their CPF to be forfeited if they leave SG.

39. I want higher income taxes and property taxes for foreigners.

40. I want NS for foreigners.

41. Foreigners who bought HDB flats cannot be allowed to rent their flat out EVER!

42. I want the SGD to be moderated downwards! A higher SGD may benefit those who can afford to holiday overseas, those who are rich enough to send kids to overseas for studies, or PRs and foreigners when they remit money home. BUT overly high SGD deters investments into Singapore.

43. I want curbs on inflation. To that effect, we need to install restrictions on property speculation, raise reserve ratios in banks, and have more stringent criteria before loans are issued. AND OF COURSE, GST lower back to 3%

44. When foreign talent enters my country. I want these people to be REALLY foreign talent. I don’t want my country’s pink IC and PR to be handed out like toilet paper.

45. I want more heavily subsidized birth-delivery, child-care, pediatric health and education care to boost local numbers. If S.Korea can do it, why not us? The practice of replacement diminishing local numbers with foreigner number MUST STOP.

46. Instead of always saying Singapore does not have enough talent, will the government spend more money and effort in education and grooming the young? Every time they say that there is not enough of certain type of people, the government will import these people in masses and hordes.

50. Anyone can give the 50th reason? Come on my fellow locals. If I can say so much, you can at least say something! Few thousand people viewing this article and so little comments?

I can’t give 50 reasons why I cannot vote for PAP.

But I can give one reason why i CANNOT vote opposition.

It’s called – Walkover.

justice is blind.

Bravo Bitter Singaporean. I think you’ve echoed what most Singaporeans want, albeit with more panache. Change is in the air and we should embrace it and live it.

OriginalResonance,claims to have taken control of his life by leaving, well to each his own, but leaving is not taking control, that’s giving up. But that’s your decision and that’s how you want to live your life.

I wish you all the best and hope whatever you seek. The people here seeks change.
Any change is better than no change.

An open call to all opposition supporters:

I feel that this could be the very last chance to introduce permanent change to the monolithic political system of Singapore, one that has no checks or balances whatsover. Surely your future and the future of your children is worth the time spent volunteering for preparations for the next General Election during this coming holidays. I will be heading to the Opposition and registering at one of the parties and volunteering in whatever capacity I can. Thank you.

Thursday, December 10, 2009
The Sobering View of an Ex-ISD Officer
Those who are sobering readers of the political book Men In White cannot help but form an impression that the tome is a glorification of the narcissistic Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew. It is small wonder that some people and portals describe it as a propaganda book. It depicts Lee Kuan Yew to be a one-man crusader in his fight against the might of his so-called pro-communist foes. The authors fail to highlight Lee Kuan Yew’s more ignominous persona.

On the other hand the book Fajar Generation by an aggrieved group of former detainees connected with the old Malaya University Socialist Club is an antithesis and contains an incisive indictment of what they imply as the iniquities of a treacherous and inhuman Lee Kuan Yew. The authors, especially Dr. Poh Soo Kai and Tan Jing Quee. had apparently visited the British Archives in the United Kingdom and quoted extensively relevant extracts from the Archives to expose the so-called treachery and perfidy of Lee Kuan Yew in complicity with the British to push through the Malaysia plan. The book Fajar Generation is published in West Malaysia and surprisingly is available in some book stores in Singapore.

To debunk the subtle assertion in Men in White that Lee Kuan Yew had been able through his own industry to build up a mass base for his political ambition by simply agreeing to serve as legal adviser to pro-communist trade unions and other communist front organisations (CUF), it is obvious the authors are over-simplifying the issue. It was a well-known fact that Lim Chin Siong, the former general secretary of the powerful Singapore Factory & Shop Workers Union was the undisputed leader of the communist united front and controlled the mass base. Lee Kuan Yew could not have been unaware of this fact and knew that he had to depend on Lim Chin Siong and his mass base to advance his political ambition.

To give an example of the massive influence of Lim Chin Siong over his CUF members, the CUF used to hold anti-colonial mass meetings at the old Happy World Stadium which were invariably packed to capacity. It was an unforgettable experience to behold that Lim Chin Siong was given a standing ovation when he entered the stadium. Lee Kuan Yew would usually be tagging along holding his briefcase and this phenomenon could not have escaped the sharp attention of Lee Kuan Yew. He had no doubt kept this at the back of his mind for reference in his dealing with Lim Chin Siong in future. Lee was of the conviction that as long as Lim was a free man, Lim would be a great obstacle to his ambitious plan of capturing political power. So along came an unsuspecting benefector in the person of Chief Minister Lim Yew Hock who did Lee a great favour by detaining Lim Chin Siong and his fellow activists thus allowing the ambitious Lee Kuan Yew to inherit Lim Chin Siong’s mass base to advance his political ambition. The word gratitude is not to be found in Lee’s lexicon. In fact, it would have been a great joke if Lim’s detention had caused him any grief.
Posted by Singapore Recalcitrant at 6:13 AM

http://singaporerecalcitrant.blogspot.com/2009/12/sobering-view-of-ex-isd-officer.html

#90, #97 New Era

Ah, I finally understood what you meant by repeatedly asking about IMF/WB meetings in 2006. I thought you are referring to the 2009 forum because that is the first time i heard of ‘freak elections’ and the ‘army’ through Catherine Lim’s question, and TOC covered it.

So, no, I am only referring to 2009 remarks– which i mistakenly attribute to your 2006 article because the description of the remarks are similar to what i heard this year.

My main point (which i still stand by) is this- having listened to his comments firsthand this year, i’ll say this year remarks should be situated in the context of discussing the elected presidency. What I have noticed is people’s understanding of the remarks got distorted this year because there was no context to it.

of course, having said that, i claim to have only listened to it this year and not in 2006. So, yes, you are right, i cannot say if the same remarks, context and distortion apply in 2006… and neither is that my main point. maybe you or someone else might know that better than me.

RW, I appreciate you honest in admitting what appears to be a genuine on your part.

On my part, I haven’t the faintest idea why he said what he did. But I do know that 2006 was the year that his son was contesting the GE for the first time as secretary general of PAP. They were generous in giving out goodies before the GE and his subordinates were openly predicting that LHL would lead his team to victory by winning 80% of the votes in Ang Mo Kio GRC.

As it turned out, LHL and his team almost lost to a team of newcomers from the WP. Papa, must have been very upset and in his first interview to an international media, made a vieled threat to Singaporeans.

#122 New Era

And thank you, for being magnanimous about my oversight.

It is not only what we discuss, but how we discuss issues- with candor, respect and honesty that makes SIngapore a better place. :)

@77) OriginalResonance on December 13th, 2009 9.12 pm

I will give you the courtesy of some credits if you are truly worried about the best for Singapore. Quitting just doesn’t seems the best way to do it though, but I always respect everyone has his/her own decisions – for good or bad.

However, assuming that everyone here is hell bent to do Singapore in is extremely….paranoid. I think a lot of the people here has/is serving NS & their reservist cycle — I certainly have and in a high risk, low life expectancy vocation too. Why would we then do Singapore in? What more, if you can’t see the intelligence of some folk here, then intelligence is your problem.

No, I think your ONLY concern is to preserve your status by some association with the ruling party. Get off your ivory tower, see the ground situation. There are people diluting their milk powder just to stretch their dollar in our “first- world-made-by-MIW environment”. After 50 years, we are still not a country nor nation, and we have to choose between 2 evils. Doesn’t sounds like good leadership for a country to me.

Anyway, take heart. Monkeys are probably not allowed to be registered as candidates in our elections. Sorry to disappoint the person suggesting “a bunch of monkeys” in the first place. Still, my cat is getting my vote….unless I see an elephant. Can vote that, right?

106) Bitter Singaporean on December 13th, 2009 10.53 pm
to
115) Bitter Singaporean on December 13th, 2009 11.04 pm

Gosh, are you on steriods? Anyway, my hat off and compliments.

//My Views

This is a joke.

When the financial crisis and 911 didn’t even cause the stock market to crash and just a normal democratic outcome will do that to singapore?

I would say that if the pigs lose one or 2 GRC, we should expect a lot of goodies from them for the next 5 years.

They will work super hard to keep their rice bowl.

They have been doing that to us.

They should have a taste of their own medicine.

Also, so if the stock market really fall, I will buy like crazy because it will double in no time.

In addition, I will not see any opposition throwing our monies into useless not to say dumb investments because none of the opposition has done that for the last 20 years.

Only the pigs have done that kind of negative value add to singaporeans.

I pity your shortsightedness.

//My Views

“What does Singapore have? Nothing, except a competent and honest government leading to political stability which in turn attracts investments! You shake that solid and core foundation which Singapore’s success rests upon, the whole nation collapses like a tonne of rock! Don’t ever try to make a mockery on this national survival fact!”

This is inane.

What core foundation?

GIC and TH lost so much monies with no accountability.

TH is issuing bonds now because it couldn’t find an investor.

GIC would have done the same but they managed to squeeze some monies out of CPF with the minimum sum.

LHL is the biggest curse we ever had.

The trio lost us so many monies, cost us so much monies and you consider that foundation.

WHAT a joke!

I had wanted to say LKY was the biggest curse but I think the wave of response will be too numerous.

LHL’s case is obvious.

He and his wife didn’t get any thing good done.

AND LKY is at least responsible for “forecasting” this to happen.

For those who claim they cannot vote, why not rent a place where there is real election and change your address to that place.

Then you can vote.

//Ah Siao

As if it is free to call the armies in after a democratic elections where the pigs lost?

LKY might die of a heart attack first.

Who else would be vicious enough to call the army.

What you say is happening whether you like it or not.

In fact, if it happens in 2012, you might be right (I don’t agree).

If it happens later, LKY has gone to hell. Who is there to call the army?

Anyway, it is the normal rules of capitalism, when the pigs suck, they have to be voted out.

That’s the rules they announced themselves.

IF they are that confident and it is that easy to call in the army, ask them to start the elections now.

They know they are in shit.

//Ω李

what some of the pigs policies?

All of their policies are responsible.

Up til the birth control campaign.

Refer to
Comment (15) by [anonymous] and
Comment (41) by [AC] :

[ “Without the elected president and if there is a freak result, within two or three years, the army would have to come in and stop it” ]

It is obvious that you guys had quoted Mr. Lee Kuan Yew out of context.

Firstly, he was referring to a non-existing situation – without an Elected President. At that time, as well as now, Singapore has an Elected President.

Next, he was saying if the non-PAP government turned out to be squandering the country’s reserves within two or three years after the PAP handed over the power, the army would have to move in.

So, I am correct in my earlier comment that Mr. Lee Kuan Yew did not say he would send in the army if a freak election resulted in the PAP losing power. The MM is a man Singaporeans can trust. He is much wiser than all of us combined together.

//My Views

He has been the one mis-investing GIC’s monies and had to cover his ass.

He is a super thick skin actor.

if life is so good in Singapore, why wouldn’t we want offspring to share the happiness?

It is because life is shitty in Singapore for most people except the pigs in white, that most of us don’t reproduce.

We still try to have fun with the condom…

Not reproducing is the direct response to dictatorship.

it is the LKY’s forecasting that cause him to implement the 2 child policy.

We are paying the price of that (I think most people can count).

Add that with another 3.5 million a year and the crap lky sprout on tv.

@132) mon on December 14th, 2009 3.17 am

I have to agree somewhat with that. Some herein thinks or fears that a majority of Opposition will doom Singapore with screwed up policies. This of course is possible. However, it is fact that after our independence in mid-60’s, the stop-at-2 policy was implemented. This is one of the first national policies of the PAP — and where are we now with its effects? LOADS OF SHIT — one of lowest TFR, high foreigners influx, integration issues, need for maids, depressed wages, low productivity, inadequate entreprenuership, etc…..

So, sorry, the PAP has it share of big time F***-up policies when they took over the running of Singapore. It’s just that they are extremely effective at highlighting the good while sweep dirt under the carpet. So, yes, any alternate party voted in may have some hiccups with policies — and they should be held accountable — but it is quite high-handed to demand absolute competency from someone when the incumbent doesn’t even answer to any mistakes.

Ok, maybe the lately admit of mistake of how Chinese was taught is a softening — so what are the atonements? That policy did screw a few of my schoolmates over the years, that I am certain. Maybe that is what they learnt working with the Japs during WW2 — express some “remorse” over past atrocities, don’t blink an eye, maintain a stiff upper lip, and expects everyone to move on. Heah, scot-free, man.

133) My Views on December 14th, 2009 4.27 am
“without an Elected President. At that time, as well as now, Singapore has an Elected President.”

aiyah, you must have known how the story of our first real elected president ended. for the next two rounds, there weren’t any election loh. so it is moot lah.

“saying if the non-XXX government turned out to be squandering the country’s reserves within two or three years after the XXX handed over the power, the army would have to move in.”

what burmese style hah ? you mean out of a sudden people in the army can be suddenly be so discerning and have better grasp on how our reserves are being spent better than those who apparently may have been voted in and having the mandate. what talk you lah. use your stupit brain lah.

people in the army’s only brain is to use force and use arms lah, that is why they are only good in taking instructions from someone higher in rank. you been in the army or not.

Singaporeans must be politically mature enough to know that we need to have a two party system in order for a healthy democracy going.

Why do we need a two party system? Well, why do we need quality assurance in all manufactured goods and services?

Having a second party check on PAP whenever it comes up with laws and policies ensures that the new laws and policies are properly debated and check. NCMPs and NMPs cannot do this because they have no voting power.

Even if you think PAP is doing a good job, which they are not in the past few years, we still have to have a second party (or group of parties) which is independent of the PAP party whip.

Remember the case of casinos and high ministerial salaries where even PAP MPs who opposed the bills cannot vote against it. Only the opposition, which there are only two now, can vote against such an unwise acts by the government. We need to vote more opposition MPs in so they can be an effective force to check on the government. You would not want to do a 20-man job yourself, so why are we letting 2 opposition MPs doing a 40-man job?

The Straits Times: MM Lee stated that HDB price Will Increase but remain affordable……(14 Dec’09)

If you vote for PAP, this is the Price you have to pay.
Your whole life + CPF will just to pay for your house. At least a 5 Figure Duty Stamp Fees.

It is only an empty house. Not including renovation or any utilities bills.

If you choose this route of voting PAP, make sure you have enough $$$ for yourself or your family to buy a coffin.

To: 6) My Views, 83) RW and 95) New Era

Thank you for pointing to Catherine Lim’s blog. I have always like her writing and wisdom in thought. So LKY did not say he will send in the army if there ever is a “freak election” and the PAP is voted out of Parliament.

Below is cut and pasted from her blog site for all’s information.

AT YESTERDAY’S dialogue, writer Catherine Lim posed MM Lee this question: ‘Sir, in the event of a serious threat of a freak election, would you do the unthinkable, that is, send in the army?’ This is an edited extract from Mr Lee’s reply:

‘You look at our record and the moves we’ve made. Let me put it simply like this. First, we maintain a system which gives any opposition the opportunity to displace us peacefully. We allow the system: we’ve not interfered with the civil service, the judiciary, parliamentary procedures, the police and so on.

If you can win an election, so be it. If at some point we are not able to find a team which can equal an opposition team, on that day we deserve to be out. If we become corrupt, inefficient, can’t deliver, we’re out.

What if we have a freak election, as we may well have? Many voters say openly: ‘In my family, three of us voted for you but two voted against, just to let you know that we want an opposition voice.’ In that situation, you may have a freak result. That worries me.

So we’ve set in place a President with blocking powers. Any opposition that comes in will find that he cannot touch the reserves, otherwise you can promise the sky and spend the money. And all our hard-earned savings will go in five years.

Second, you cannot change the top officials without the President’s consent. Any raiding of the funds must be approved by the President who has a council of presidential advisers to advise him yes or no.

Now, why should we do all these if we expect to overturn an election?

We expect that if we are voted out, to stay out, and hope that within one term, that new government, incompetent and unable to deliver, will be out. And there’s enough core competencies and the funds to enable a fresh PAP government to revive the system.

I spent 15 years thinking about these safeguards and finally persuaded my younger colleagues that we needed these because they can’t guarantee that each time they will produce a better team than the opposition just because you’ve done so in the past.

I don’t see any problem in the next election, and probably the election after that. But if we don’t get a good team in the election after that and the opposition does get a good team together, we’re at risk.

One of the first lessons I learnt in politicswas from Harold Laski. He said if you don’t have a system that allows fundamental change by consent, you will have a revolution by violence. If we block all possibilities, we must expect violence. In that violence, eventually the army won’t shoot because you are in the wrong. That’s what happens in Africa, the army goes in and holds up the president and often shoots him.

If we had not these thoughts at the back of our minds, why do we do these things? Just to bluff the people? Doesn’t make sense. An army commander, air force or police, has to be approved by a committee and the President must agree. Why? Because we will appoint the commanders? No, because a stupid government will do the wrong things and when we return, we may find the whole machinery has collapsed, as often is the case. Simple.

c’mon guys we are just playing his game his snitches is everywhere remember he does not do the job he only forecast he no stupid dude

@12) My Views on December 13th, 2009 2.41 am

>>What does Singapore have? Nothing, except a competent and honest government.

Competent? Honest mistake for $380+ million payout to singtel? Mas Selemat escape? Mee Siam mai hum (which world did he live in that with his “talent”, he didn’t know that mee siam don’t come with hum)?

>> Capital flight! Business pull out!

Don’t think business will be in a big hurry to pull-out, they foreign investors will probably adopt a wait and see, and once they see that the oppositions are able to provide a stable environment and a happy local population, they won’t pull out and lose all the $ that they have invested here…

Did investors fled thailand when there are military coups?

@72) OriginalResonance on December 13th, 2009 8.54 pm

>>#66 and #69 To sum it up, what you’re essentially saying is that anyone should get a try-out as long as he opposes PAP. Then, we’ll assess his performance and decide on the appropriate action in the next election 5 years later.

One question for you? What were the track records for PAP when we just got our independence? Remember we gladly joined malaysia, and was forced to go it alone when malaysia kicked us out.. So, if the people of singapore were looking for track records, please tell us what pap provide in terms of track records?

@89) OriginalResonance on December 13th, 2009 9.45 pm

>>What else could it be? Complaining and casting their meagre votes against PAP won’t effect any significant change. Why not do something more constructive? By the looks of things, I suggest a lesson in logic 101.

If voting for CHANGE is not taking charge of our lives, then what is? Quitting/leaving is?

Singaporeans have been brainwashed to believe that the opposition is not credible. In recent years I have found the oppositions’ platforms to be very attractive. They speak up for the economically left behind. They are against unaccountability and opaqueness in how our finances have been being managed. I don’t need my MP to be a degree holder. I don’t want a candidate who is a doctor or lawyer. I’ve had enough of those.

@My Views

You were saying that the Elder Lee have never made any comments about the Army being brought in, hence I bring up the article to provide an example and some perspective of the matter. Whether his remark is justifiable, or whether it is just a blatant attempt at fear mongering doomsday scenarios of an opposition victory, is a matter of opinion.

I find it ironic that while the Elder Lee is painting a picture of the opposition destroying Singapore’s reserves, the largest blows to our reserves in the last 2 decades occurred under his watch under his team while operating under a cloak of secrecy.

Were there sufficient due diligence, and were the investments reckless? We will never know the true answer, because our Finance minister have already stated that the people’s wish to know is not enough reason for disclosure, even when matters are brought up in our Parliament itself.

This, amongst other reasons as given in the article, should serve as a wake up call to Singaporeans of the need for more checks and controls on our existing government – the reasons why we cannot vote for the PAP in the next election.

Bitter Singaporean summed up neatly what we Singapore born and bred citizens
are unhappy about.
Recently Govt ministers and civil servants are keeping very silent on letters published in the Straits Times on various topics e.g. about a writer questioning why strategic utlities Companies were sold to foreigners. We are not happy that every time we pump petrol into our cars, we are adding to the foreign exchange of another country. The Govt did not even bother to explain at all.
In governing a country, especially a democratic country like Singapore, where its citizens are well travelled and highly educated, silence is not golden. i. e. politics is not conducted in silence. You need communications with the public. You need activity and noise. you can’t just presume things could be swept under the carpet, confidently presume things would die down themselves in time.
Also Ministers seem more preoccupied with their image overseas, is it that necessary to keep on travelling round the world to promote something? All these trips are a drain on our country’s finances.

#Bitter Singaporean,

You’ve made my day, Bro!

Well…I wondered if you were given a choice to stay in a south east region country, which would you prefer?
Lets vote…..
1) Brunei,
2) Cambodia,
3) Indonesia,
4) Malaysia
5) Singapore
6) Thailand
7) Vietnam

first where is the evidence of “freak election”?

2nd the meaning of “freak election” means what?

do anyone know?

i am curious.

9) rizal on December 13th, 2009 2.13 am -

Can you actually tell good from bad; right from left? Serious lah.

Surely you’re not suggesting we follow in our northern and southern neighbours’ footsteps. Are you?

They’re hoping we join them since they can’t beat us.

Perhaps then there’ll be be abundance from heaven for equitable sharing.

Depends. If a person was born and bred in any of the above-mentioned countries he/she would prefer to stay long-term in your own home country, even for most of the elites.

Except for some citizens of 4) wanting to go to 5) for sociopolitical and economic reasons.

If there was an option for a Western country or an advanced country like Japan and SOUTH Korea, a lot of people would choose that instead.

In my opinion.

I’ll VOTE for the PAP any time.

We all know our neighbours wish our government to be voted out. Their hungry millions are getting restless lah after seeing what the PAP has done for the people of this resourceless, tiny, red dot over the years.

“Bad” example for our neighbours.

And I never doubted the “sincereity” of these anoynmous bloggers calling for the defeat of the PAP.

Me & Others NO so StuPiD lor.

The opposition deserves a chance to prove themselves. To the PAP, I say: “you have worked hard on these years – it’s time for you to take a well-deserved break!”

Life is good in Singapore. By importing many foreigners we have elevated ourselves to wealth and prestige our neighbors can only dream about.

Coming from another anonymous commenter, one can only hope that he himself is sincere.

//Clement Tan

Tell that to the mainland chinese.

This is only a stepping stone for them.

“Me & Others NO so StuPiD lor.”

ya lah, you stay that way and keep our neighbours at bay ok.

Me & Others also NO so StuPiD lor to believe your half-baked Ah Beng shit.

Just to make you wake up of how stupig you are, our neighbours just need to turn off the tap and maybe we will begin to fight among ourselves for the last few drops of water.

Don’t ever underestimate or look down on your own neighbours who will always be your neighbours whether you like it or not.

To “My Views”

The reasons why Spore has now got to resort to Casinos & Cheap Labour are precisely because of LKY & son and the whole PAP system governing the country.

Over the recent years, there has been libel cases against major International newspapers and magazines by LKY & son for defamation. They have offended some influential journalists out there. Once the word is out, it sends alarm bells in investors minds. If an investor is deciding between Hongkong and Spore, this very ’small matter’ can be the deciding factor.

Rental or land use charges, a form of taxation by the ruling party, can also be a major put-off to investors. The PAP may be able to bully their own people into submission, but investors have a choice.

So my conclusion is the opposite of yours, vote out the PAP and we will have better chances of improving our economy along with a better quality of life.

Would the following policies appeal to Singaporeans:

1.Abolish conscription

2.Recognize gay marriage

3.Compulsory education to extend to secondary school level, remove all school subsidies, emphasis on humanities

4.Decriminalize drugs

5.Insular immigration policy

6.Abandon elections in favour of objective national testing

7.Deregulate media content; allow for absolute freedom of expression

8. Eliminate all taxes

9.Privatize healthcare

10.Privatize housing

11. Sterilize undesirables

Reply to #159

“Just to make you wake up of how stupig you are, our neighbours just need to turn off the tap and maybe we will begin to fight among ourselves for the last few drops of water.

Don’t ever underestimate or look down on your own neighbours who will always be your neighbours whether you like it or not. ”

Is that rizal? Don’t be shy lah.

Please don’t threaten your own country leh. We have NeWater & the Mirana Barrage water which you and your families are now using. Also the 2061 international water contract is legally binding. Otherwise I believe Malaysia would have turned off the tap a long time ago. Maybe, they also care for people like you so they kindly keep the water flowing. Right?

Hee!

we make choices in every stages of our lives:

- which secondary school to go to?
- to study poly or jc or clean toilet?
- what course to take in uni?
- choose the big boobs or cute girl?

do we get all success and happy endings everytime?
Of course no, but we know we have to choose and do something. Thats life, full of surprises, happy moments and little sad things.

No point to be in “wait and see” mode, thats mean let other people vote for the opposition or make spoil vote. If anything goes wrong, blame these groups of people and you yourself look “clean”.

Wake up and take the first step to make Singapore better, if not for yourself, do it for your friends, relatives or your kids.

“Would the following policies appeal to Singaporeans:

1. Abolish conscription”

Dare PAP put it this one reasonable non straw man proposition to a referendum?

I am all for privatizing HDBs, but with strict restrictions on sales to foreigners, or even via proxies.

“We have NeWater & the Mirana Barrage water which you and your families are now using. ”

I wonder if opening water treatment to individual private RO machines will be much more expensive than the economies of scales of Newater treatment plants. The costs incurred will be in testing on each machine on a routine basis.

“Sterilize undesirables”
The government has already done a bang up job on the undesirables called Singaporeans.

I really dont understand some people’s antipathy towards people of other races. I really don’t. Could it be a self-loathing at their own lack of identity?

By “undesirables” I’m referring to people with serious heritable diseases

OriginalResonance ,

You misinterpret what people have in mind to the extreme, and imply that two seemingly opposites could not co-exists. I’m just going to addressed some of the points.

1) Nobody is asking for absolute freedom of expression . You can have freedom of expression and regulated media at the same time in order to prevent children from seeing inappropriate scenes of obscenity , and the general public from watching programmes that would disrupt racial and religious harmony.

2) Personally, i have no problem with legalizing drugs that are less harmful than alcohol or cigarettes.

3) We have no right to tell gays & lesbians who they should marry.

4) To have subsidies on education is to put emphasis on humanities

5) Abolish MANDATORY conscription. Billions of dollars are wasted on people who do not wish to be in the army.

166) rizal on December 14th, 2009 11.10 pm -

2) Personally, i have no problem with legalizing drugs that are less harmful than alcohol or cigarettes.
# What sort of drugs then do you have in mind?
3) We have no right to tell gays & lesbians who they should marry.
#Are you serious? Show yourself for uttering this pronouncement and the ulamak will behead you for sure.
4) To have subsidies on education is to put emphasis on humanities
#If there were no subsidies we would be paying overseas rates or fees charged at private institutions in Singapore. And don’t forget our Malay students also get free education from primary to JC as well as ITE. They don’t pay school fees at all.
5) Abolish MANDATORY conscription. Billions of dollars are wasted on people who do not wish to be in the army.
#You must be a loco. We are not disturbed by others for 44 good years because we have a standing people’s army! Everyone knows our neighbourhood is not exactly a comfort zone. Remember one country invaded an unarmed E Timor in 1976, raped, looted and plundered, till the Australian army moved in. And some leaders in the neighbourhood simply love to brandish kris (dagger) to others and blow up defenceless girls. And their armies are NOT a multi-racial force if you are not blind to see. Anyway, we all support the Singapore Defence Force of national servicemen. Those who speak otherwise are foreigners or people with hidden agendas.

if PAP still continue to rule, there will be more pet shops ….. cos the people with brain will not want to have children to live in such a society …. it’s money money money … so their next alternative … buy a pet … cos not so expensive to raise … so invest in pet shop now …. better be fast if not NTUC will also start this business … anyway they alway go into business and compete with local businesses … why they don’t go overseas to compete? …. maybe local ‘bao chia’ … go oversea wait scare lose lah …

An eye opener! Love your article:) Didnt even know about the operation coldstorm etc.. cos it never appeared in our social studies books! I also cannot understand the justification (or lack of) of multi-million dollar salaries.

I think life in Singapore is good only if you have money. Else, life becomes miserable. I just wonder how the lower income earners are surviving- struggling, i believe. Its fast becoming (already is) a playground for the rich and famous. Whatever happened to the simple joys of a Singaporean life? Now its all about chasing for the gold.. forced tuition! supplementary lessons! CCAs bla bla.. go uni! get 1st class, get good job, make $$.. everythings $$$.

I just cant wait to get out of this place and the pathetic salary i have to work for in a color-bar environment with no, or little promotion!

rizal

I wasn’t addressing Singaporean’s “problems”. I was merely presenting my idea of utopia and see how you guys would react to it. Do you actually think I would ever bend backwards to pander to the whims of Singaporeans? Let it be known that I’m not an advocate of democracy. There’s a reason why I suggested that we do away with popularity contests or should I say, elections.

“1) Nobody is asking for absolute freedom of expression . You can have freedom of expression and regulated media at the same time in order to prevent children from seeing inappropriate scenes of obscenity , and the general public from watching programmes that would disrupt racial and religious harmony.”

I think race is an archaic concept and my emphasis on education will see to the eradication of it. However, I do realize that not many Singaporeans, at the moment, are smart enough to know that. But I’m gonna purge out the root of the problem anyway rather than to sweep it down the carpet. If individuals have a problem with other races, let them voice their displeasure, so that enlightened observers shall have the liberty to destroy their irrationality. Right now, we all seem to be co-existing harmoniously but are we integrated as one?

“3) We have no right to tell gays & lesbians who they should marry.”

Yes, we do just because governments ought to care about the well-being of society. What’s wrong with giving homosexuals equal rights anyway? LOL

“4) To have subsidies on education is to put emphasis on humanities”

Humanities are subjects that deal with human life as a whole e.g philosophy, anthropology, psychology etc. It’s not about being “humane” as you’ve insinuated. In my idealized society, there would be absolutely no taxes whatsoever. Governments derive their income from providing services in the security and education sectors. So why should they give discounts if they ought to provide a top class education, the bedrock of the nation? Say what you like about political systems like democracy, autocracy, communism, socialism, capitalism etc. the real influencing factor in society is education.

“# What sort of drugs then do you have in mind?”

Any drugs. People have the liberty to make choices, even if it hurt themselves. But I won’t allow them to. Because they would all be indoctrinated since young in schools to make certain choices skewed towards my ideals.

“#You must be a loco. We are not disturbed by others for 44 good years because we have a standing people’s army! Everyone knows our neighbourhood is not exactly a comfort zone. Remember one country invaded an unarmed E Timor in 1976, raped, looted and plundered, till the Australian army moved in. And some leaders in the neighbourhood simply love to brandish kris (dagger) to others and blow up defenceless girls. And their armies are NOT a multi-racial force if you are not blind to see. Anyway, we all support the Singapore Defence Force of national servicemen. Those who speak otherwise are foreigners or people with hidden agendas. ”

If you’ve served in the army, you would be able to tell the regulars from the nsf. The former do not whine as much. Because it’s just another job that they willingly COMMIT to. Note the emphasis on “commit”. It’s pure economics anyway. Conscription in peacetime hurts our economy. We would be better off if we just pay a certain segment of the population higher salaries to serve in the military and allow the rest to focus completely on their own endeavours. National slavery = chao keng, resentment, perfunctory efforts.

“There’s a reason why I suggested that we do away with popularity contests or should I say, elections.”

you are getting from bad to worth lah. no election, then who decides ? you hah or someone who knows how to use the hammer better ? suggestion somemore, i suggest you migrate to burma or north korea, plenty of opportunities to keep you satisfied.

“you are getting from bad to worth lah. no election, then who decides ? you hah or someone who knows how to use the hammer better ? suggestion somemore, i suggest you migrate to burma or north korea, plenty of opportunities to keep you satisfied. ”

Maybe you should read my posts before you embarrass yourself. I suggest you start with #161

“NeWater & the Mirana Barrage water”

ya loh, I knew people would say that lo how self-sufficient we are lo – as compared to 3cents for 1000 gallons of raw water lo and the wisdom of our older generation of leaders who knew what durian parties are all about.

“Also the 2061 international water contract is legally binding.”

so contractual lo ? we will be in more deep deep shit if we keep on behaving so legalistic lo.

“Maybe you should read my posts before you embarrass yourself. I suggest you start with #161″

aiyo, your posts are always well read lah. aiyoh. let me bring you back.

“Let it be known that I’m not an advocate of democracy. There’s a reason why I suggested that we do away with popularity contests or should I say, elections.”

not an advocate of democracy and should i say, elections. aiyoh, don’t tell me you mean various individual elections for each of the point you brought up in #161 lah.

anyway, we more flexible and change quite fast in the presence of good evidence and facts. don’t need to be embarrassed lah, sometimes we make mistakes and we learn lah – we are not god lah. have you heard of the word ‘exception to the rule’.

#175 one of the many sheeps produced by the Singapore system. I’m not gonna entertain you anymore if you fail to understand the concept of “objective national testing”. Is it any wonder that Singaporean students have one of the highest tests scores in the world and yet we’ve not produced a single nobel prize winner?

“#175 one of the many sheeps produced by the Singapore system.”

aiyoh, strangely and you beat me to this one, I thought about the same thing about you.

“objective national testing”

national ? and do you think we have quite a seizable foreign element here to skew your “objective national testing”.

“Is it any wonder that Singaporean students have one of the highest tests scores in the world and yet we’ve not produced a single nobel prize winner?”

n thank you very much for telling us. and hehe who is to blame. the educational system or us. hahahahahahah ?????????????

Believed me, would we be what we are now without LKY? if you ask me personally, I respect this guy, and in fact PAP, but I do have my reservation on the the younger Ministers or MPs, they are rather arrogant, but the policies that so far implemented are mainly for the citizens of Singapore.

Look at the so called recession, do we feel it? people are still rushing in for Condos, Food Courts & Shopping Malls so crowded…etc….

I am not a PAP supporter, but I felt that what are been provided for me is one of the better ones within this region. LoL

One & All,

No need long story. VOTE FOR PAP in the next GE………………………………………………..

AND GET SCREWED FOR THE NEXT FIVE YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When you say you cant vote for a party, you ought to be explaining why the party isnt worth voting for isnt it? I can concur with point 8, for it truly explains what PAP is lacking for governance. The rest of the arguments brought up however, could be mistakes that any ruling party can commit, not necessarily just PAP. Come on man, which government doesnt do cover-ups. While reading this, take it with a pinch of salt and use your analytical cognitive abilities.

I’m not saying the author isnt making sense. It’s just that all the arguments he presented aint reasons why PAP shouldnt be voted into governance. It’s more of what PAP has failed to do while in governance. Unless some other party can promise to do better and all the said-nonsense wouldnt occur, then honestly, this article cant really hold water.

“Look at the so called recession, do we feel it?”

you may not feel it lah. ask those who invested in those bond here bond there and insurance agents working for some big firm lo and those people who lost their jobs since lo and some men that you do not usually see in the void decks on normal weekdays in their casual wear are now doing so.

ask timasek lo whether they feel it lo. if they feel it, you think normal people don’t feel it leh. may you right, timasek don’t feel it bcos ah kong funds lah.

“people are still rushing in for Condos, Food Courts & Shopping Malls so crowded…etc….”

haha !!! oh this group people just like you lo who do not feel it lah.

@breaky

The Singapore we have today is definitely not the result of the efforts of a single man. The success of early Singapore is the result of a charismatic leader with a superb team. The architect behind the economic growth was Goh Keng Swee, the man behind the HDB story is Lim Kim San, and the man working the ground and casting the key vote that made LKY into the PM for the first time is Toh Chin Chye. In according proper respect to each contributor, we must also realize that the Elder Lee is not quite as all knowing and all capable as he is often made out to be.

I think that there are no other political party that I can trust to lead Singapore now. But the issue at hand is not the casting down of the PAP, but the voting of more opposition into the parliament to curb the arrogance and monitor the investments made with our precious reserves.

Just because we are doing better than our neighbors is no excuse for complacency – we should be asking ourselves : are we in a better position than we are 10-20 years ago? Reports have shown the middle and lower income families facing wage stagnation and regression while our leaders’ pay eclipse the highest paid leaders of the first world.

A extended monopoly of power breeds stagnation and decay – history stands testimony to this stark truth. For the sake of Singapore, for the sake of Singaporeans, and for the sake of the PAP even, we need to get more opposition into the Parliament.

Hi guys, just heard over the radio about the implementing a new rule comes next March, something regarding the set 24 mths maximum subscription limit for internet service, and if anyone breaks the 2 yrs contract would not be penalised. Wow, that’s exactly 24 mths to the next coming 2012 GE, not bad hah, how desperate one can really be. Suspect they might just completely shut down the internet communication and leaving you ppl with no choice but to except and relying on the MSM on whatever these MIW plans to tell you all the news they wish.

Time for quiz of the day: “”Three women were brought to the Singapore General Hospital, each in the same condition and needing a blood transfusion.

The first, a Southeast Asian was given the transfusion but died a few hours later.

The second, a South Asian was also given a transfusion but died a few days later.

What happened to the third woman, who’s an East Asian?”

184) OriginalResonance — the old man obviously know what’s going to happen in the future, they got it all planned out. what most singaporeans don’t realised is that they know they will always be few steps ahead.

but they underestimated one thing. well.. we will witness how all the magnificent events unfold in the near future right in front of everyone’s eyes. ;)

all i can say is that, you all are in for a rude awakening. they have done such a good job that by the time everyone can even grasp what is going on, it will be too little too late. :)

165) OriginalResonance on December 14th, 2009 10.17 pm
By “undesirables” I’m referring to people with serious heritable diseases

All hail Dr Mengele!

@186) Confused Citizen on December 16th, 2009 8.32 am

Don’t forgot Hitler too. Nor the intellectually disadvantaged under the Mother Graduate scheme. Wait, let’s not stop. What about the economically disadvantaged locals when competing with FT/FWs? In short, welcome to Pandora’s Box.

@171) OriginalResonance on December 15th, 2009 8.28 am

>>If you’ve served in the army, you would be able to tell the regulars from the nsf. The former do not whine as much. Because it’s just another job that they willingly COMMIT to. Note the emphasis on “commit”.

Do you know that saf regulars are CAREER SOLDIERS (yes, they are paid salaries, GDP bonus, 13 month AWS and other goodies), while NSF are doing national service (and they ARE NOT paid salaries, bonus, and other goodies, they are ONLY GIVEN NS allowances)

@180) Poloboy on December 15th, 2009 1.58 pm

Sure, if those mistakes are made by normal government, but do you know that pap government is not NORMAL.. pap claimed that they are TALENTS, and that they need to be paid SKY-HIGH salaries.

So, with such TALENT, and SKY-HIGH pay, then I (tax payers) expect NO MISTAKES (yup, not even 1, human or not)..

@184) OriginalResonance on December 15th, 2009 10.22 pm
>>Time for quiz of the day: “”Three women were brought to the Singapore General Hospital, each in the same condition and needing a blood transfusion.

The East Asian woman will die, sooner or later, everybody does.. :)

Just looking at the salary and the performance of the MPs to date.

It is time for a change. Not just doing it our of spite or malice but doing it for a new beginning.

I am contemplating moving to a non walkover GRC just to vote against the current government.

Some of the MP made many times the salary than Obama.

At least Obama has a Nobel Prize, what are boasting off?

“Do you know that saf regulars are CAREER SOLDIERS (yes, they are paid salaries, GDP bonus, 13 month AWS and other goodies), while NSF are doing national service (and they ARE NOT paid salaries, bonus, and other goodies, they are ONLY GIVEN NS allowances) ”

Which explains my call for the abolition of national slavery. What’s your point, really?

Refer to (12) by (My Views). Taiwan and Japan have natural resources? Japan was flatten during WWII. What natural resources do Japan have? She have to sent super tankers to ship oil from the Gulf states. If Japan have natural resources she would have won WWII. It was America trade embargo that led to Japan attacking other
Asian countries for natural resources. Taiwan have natural resources? Every year, at least one tyhpoon hit the eastern side of Taiwan. The only natural resources there is granites. Central Taiwan is made up of mountains. On the western side I am unable to see what natural resources Taiwan have that can help made a great impact on Taiwan economy. It is the hard working people of the two countries that make the great different. So is Singapore. So is Hongkong and South Korea. In the past people say China will be in chaos if chairman Mao pass away but China got better and better after Mao. Chairman Deng, Zhang Zeming and the present chairman Hu. Today China economy have surpass the four “Asian Tigers” and soon might overtake Japan as
asia economic superpower. Suppose if all the PAP MPs die at the same time of hard attack and all foreign investors pull out of Singapore and people like “My Views” migrate, our island state will not go down. There are other businessmen ready to take over the business. The same hardworking Singaporean workers will be around. It is a matter of whether they are given an equal opportunity.

sorry, it should be heart attack, not hard attack.

In the end, there are people who will still vote for PAP, such as:

http://www.bmw-sg.com/forums/lounge/37043-my-vote-counts-10-reasons-why-i-cannot-vote-pap-next-election.html

Dear OriginalResonance.

“In my idealized society, there would be absolutely no taxes whatsoever. Governments derive their income from providing services in the security and education sectors.”

I began wondering, if this in fact meant that, services offered and bought are those offered to the public. Which in fact would mean in your form of utopia, capital gains can be used to purchase public services. To avoid confusion, the gist of it would mean that you can use money to pay for the services of the security forces, you can pay for above and beyond services from the military. Are you in fact suggesting that you can pay them money to do e.g. a ritual cleansing of the “people with serious heritable diseases”? And afterward, pay the education sectors huge sums of money to “white wash” the incident?

But why stop there, there are exhaustive amounts of money spent in other public services too, e.g. The communication and arts sector, the finance department, the transport ministry. Are you in fact suggesting that the security and educational sectors bear the huge burden of forming the whole governmental budget? This would translate to a relatively high price for security and educational services. Wouldn’t this be the same as having taxes? Or for that matter in your utopia, the government only has 2 sectors, security and education.

To paraphrase you. “I believe that education is the real influencing factor in society”

To the uninitiated, this paraphrased sentence sums up what many would believe in on any given moment when it is uttered. But again, this is pure rhetoric. I do not think the education that you are going to advocate is going to have “humane” ideas as you had earlier stated. Humanities are subjects about the human life as a whole. And without the “humane” intention, are we going to be human?

“Because they would all be indoctrinated since young in schools to make certain choices skewed towards my ideals.”

This statement when read over a few times, seems to have been ripped out of the subject on sociology (another humanity subject i think). Or it could have just as easily been torn off a Hitler Youth guide book. What I would like to see is a nation wide program that would allow you to encode the people’s mind with the right decision making process. I would venture far enough to say, that they might even decide to vote the opposition, should that day come when you have your chance to indoctrinate the young.

Towards the issue of NSF vs Regulars, I have always thought of the difference between the two is the ranks. Mostly the ranks of NSF personnel are from recruit, pte, lcp, cpl, 3sg, 2sg, rarely 1sg, 2lta, lta and sometimes cpt. To differentiate them by the level of commitment is to make sweeping comments. Just as it is as easy to find a regular who whines as much as a NSF, you should not find it problematic to find a NSF who is more committed than a regular. Again not so easily brushed away as a problem that crops up due to economic reasons. Does paying a NSF more get you a more committed serviceman? Likewise does it mean that you can pay a regular less since he/she is already committed to the service of the country?

@196) curious citizen on December 17th, 2009 8.24 am

“…..Towards the issue of NSF vs Regulars,….”

Even till now, NO MINISTER has dared to address the issue of NS/Reservist done by true-Singaporeans and what economical status that brings to them after 2.5 + 13 years service.

I did more than 50% of my NS time in jungles and shit-holes, eating C-rations — really about 50% of 2.5 years. I have yet to meet a Regular with the same experience. Yup, NS is the original breeding ground for cheap labor.

“…Likewise does it mean that you can pay a regular less since he/she is already committed to the service of the country? …”

You are so kind not to mentioned another possibility — we may pay a person millions-buck salary but we only get zil of of that person. Ok, maybe a commitment “not to be corrupted” (whatever that means…).

“To avoid confusion, the gist of it would mean that you can use money to pay for the services of the security forces, you can pay for above and beyond services from the military. Are you in fact suggesting that you can pay them money to do e.g. a ritual cleansing of the “people with serious heritable diseases”? And afterward, pay the education sectors huge sums of money to “white wash” the incident?”

You pay to receive the service that the government provides, in their own terms. I understand your concerns but they would be duly addressed. You can’t just say that you’re willing to pay an astronomical sum to get the government to destroy your enemies. If you go to a private doctor, could you get him to administer lethal poison into your body and that you would pay any amount for such a service? No. Of course there would be a few corrupt quacks out there for you to choose from. But as per usual, I think education can rectify that.

“Or for that matter in your utopia, the government only has 2 sectors, security and education. ”

Yes indeed. Intellectuals shall have the freedom to act as they wish while feeling secure, knowing that the government can see to the chaos that would ensue from such near-anarchy.

“And without the “humane” intention, are we going to be human? ”

It’s a matter of semantics. To you, “humane” is to sanctify the race and treat every human being as a sacred entity. To me, “humane” is to serve the self-interests of individual men. The distinction is such that your ideology actively eschews harm on others while mine is rather ambivalent about it. Hurt people as you wish and make sure you can bear with the consequences. Savagery will only get one ousted from the fraternity. Which is why it’s moral to be nice, not because there is some great purpose like saving the world from hunger or something.

“This statement when read over a few times, seems to have been ripped out of the subject on sociology (another humanity subject i think). Or it could have just as easily been torn off a Hitler Youth guide book.”

Are you advocating that we do not teach babies anything and just leave them to their devices? Was it out of your own volition that you’ve decided to learn English? Or were you born in a society where English is the standard for communication? There’s always a positive slant to pejoratives, if you look hard enough that is.

“Just as it is as easy to find a regular who whines as much as a NSF, you should not find it problematic to find a NSF who is more committed than a regular. Does paying a NSF more get you a more committed serviceman? Likewise does it mean that you can pay a regular less since he/she is already committed to the service of the country? ”

It’s based on anecdotal evidence. It’s not hard science but it can be insightful nevertheless. Reason being that there is a confluence of factors in deciding what makes a person commit. Money is just one of them. It’s not the gratification that money provides that motivates regulars, at least not to me. It’s the idea that one is performing a profession as opposed to a liability of sorts. And money is one of the most salient indicators of the importance of a job. Pay good money and you will at least convince people of the prestige that military service brings.

“Does paying a NSF more get you a more committed serviceman? Likewise does it mean that you can pay a regular less since he/she is already committed to the service of the country? ”

Paying NSFs higher pay retroactively will probably not make them more committed. But advertising high salaries in the recruitment process will. It’s a matter of perspectives. Increasing NSF pay = “We shall be nicer to you from now on. Enjoy.” Advertising NS as a high paying full-time job = “We only accept elites. Are you up for the challenge?”

@192) OriginalResonance on December 16th, 2009 10.30 pm

>>Which explains my call for the abolition of national slavery. What’s your point, really?

My point is that if you see saf regulars show more commitment than nsf, then it is EXPECTED, because they have chosen soldering as a career, while nsf don’t have that choice.

As much as I hated ns during my time, I do see some values/benefits in it, so I am not against having ns..
- you do make lifelong friends, buddies who went thro’ thick and thin with you.
- It makes you independant, and able to handle difficulties/setbacks in life..
- It instills discipline in a person.
- In time of hostilities, at least you can still handle a rifile and protect your loved ones..

“You pay to receive the service that the government provides, in their own terms.”

Does this correspond to a normal vendor and end user relationship. That when the end user is unsatisfied with the service, where would be the end users recourse. In the event should you choose not to use the service, do you still have to pay for it?

“You can’t just say that you’re willing to pay an astronomical sum to get the government to destroy your enemies.”

Apparently this statement is true, for you not only have to say it, you have to exact into action. If it were your utopia, yes the doctor would administer it, since the end user can pay for the services. Unless of course in your utopia, there are certain moral principles, ones that you are trying to indoctrinate to young children.

I am sorry if my idea on humanity eschews harm, for it might have hurt you. The belief behind it was based solely that the essence of what it is to be human is the issue of rational thought. It is this ability that we have the freedom of choice, even to choose what is wrong. Note, there was no reference to “sanctify the human”. It was rather a contrast between human and mechanical, or even human and animal.

“Pay good money and you will at least convince people of the prestige that military service brings.”

Then please explain why does paying NSF more, not make him even more committed, since now there are 2 factors that might induce him to be so.

If money is one of the salient indicators of the importance of a job, are you then implying that the cleaner is working at an unimportant station? Or that the NSF is doing an unimportant job? Inversely, a job that is important should be paying high salaries. Why do health care providers get such low pay for an important job? Trash disposal is as important to society as a CEO, why do these people not get paid as much as one?

“Are you advocating that we do not teach babies anything and just leave them to their devices? Was it out of your own volition that you’ve decided to learn English? Or were you born in a society where English is the standard for communication? There’s always a positive slant to pejoratives, if you look hard enough that is.”

Yes I am saying, you are advocating that we do not teach babies anything, since they will not be able to make their own decisions. They are programmed with a mechanical response to any situation. Is it any different from the society now and yours?

I fail to understand how it is possible to view something positive from a pejorative. It is not because I have not tried hard enough, but to be able to appreciate it like you can, I have to assume that in your circle, that it is not derogatory.

Interesting thread and comments. It appears the main concern from people who would like to vote PAP OUT are what will happen next to our country , Singapore. we will be poor and homeless. I think If majority of singaporean possess this negative thoughts, no country leaders like LKY etc will be even more hesitant to pass on country leader power to other opposition parties. what really matters are the motivation of the citizens.

Singaporeans should stay positive and believe that if someday there wil be a “CHANGE” in Signapore leadership – it will be a CHANGE FOR THE BETTER. and we have our say in that. we have our votes.

But first we need to BELIEVE that a better tomorrow will come with change. Believe in the opposition party ability to lead us and our country better than current PAP.

For MNO, like Microsoft that will fire their current CEO and replace a new one, the board of members should strongly believe that the new CEO will lead the company better. One thing which I am 100 percent sure is that no board of members will decide to hire someone WORST than the current CEO and ruin the company.

In this case, we are the board of members to decide and i believe we have to wait for a strong LEADER from opposition party to challenge PAP. A REAL LEADER… not someone that can just point out the mistakes but someone who has a strong vision on how singapore should and will be in the next 5 10 years.

Taking Japan as an example, DPL took over the previous party after nearly 60 years in political power. With 2 strong leaders , Hatoyama and Ozawa, they made it…

Amercians believed in Obama to do the job and make America a better country

Unfortunately, i hate to say this and pls correct me if im wrong ; most Singaporeans are not people that make things happen…….i would say mostly followers – reason why? look back at our education systems and military. We were trained and educated to follow orders … we do have a very rigid system..

“Some people make things happen, some watch things happen, while others wonder what has happened.”

//SingaporePride

What is your point?

//My Views

The excuse about bigger markets have been sung don’t know how many times and is false.

HK didn’t need that.

Malaysia have a much larger population and it is not doing too well.

You cannot make up ingenuity with numbers. IT doesn’t add like that.

What a joke!

//My Views

Please name your highly competent ministers.

I will tell you why he/she isn’t competent.

There are no competent ministers in LHL govt.

No investors will be as dumb as you suggested.

not in a free economy which LHL claims Singapore is.

//My Views

As if it is the ministers who works for the investors for them to receive their returns.

What a joke!

Do/should the investors complain to any investors if they lose monies in Singapore because they mis-invested in some shaky business or mini-bonds for example?

//My Views

As if the elected presidency is a magic wand to save us from all (ok, almost all) the trouble?

Most of us question what work the current president do.

And those of us who question, never thought he is a magic wand.

In fact, most would agree: he is very expensive piece of furniture if he is not a living thing.

//My Views

//What does Singapore have?

Good question!

My answer is our people and the government is underinvesting in singaporeans.

for quite some time already.

The pigs have sowed the seed of Singaporean’s bleak future by under-investing in Singaporeans for some time.

//theforgottongeneration

My views is evidently a paid commenter from the pigs’ camp.

HE is just doing his job.

CST and LTK, go win GRCS in the next election.

Yes, and conquer the single wards, if they actually break up the GRCs.

Make them so shell-shocked, they all get on their feet and start working all over again….this time working for us, not the UN of the world in Singapore..kns.