Good point. Maybe cos if the foreigners have no place to stay, they will just leave, but citizens have no where else to go.

is HDB a social enterprise or corporate 1? there can be no such thing as half here & half there.

the only half here half must be the former NKF.

Oh, no, Mr. Leong Sze Hian, please stop all your nonsense!

Singapore’s economy is still at the early stage of recovery and people are looking forward to the two integrated resorts as a further engine to drive growth.

Both integrated resorts have experienced more than enough problems, the last thing Singaporeans want to see is two white elephants standing on their shoreline without people operating them!

EM Services is a joint venture company between HDB and Keppel Land. But why does HDB need to be involved in such a company in the first place?

Also, EM Services provides property management and valuation services on HDB flats. Does it not mean that HDB is effectively having a say in the pricing of flats in the resale market and hence playing market maker?

Something smells fishy here again….

My Views

post #3 on January 1st, 2010 5.30 pm

oh my, are those 2 IRs S’pore’s only engines? not yet operational already got problems, lol…

there is optimism & there is blind optimism.

should let all singaporean to wish to rent the $140 shared HDB flat from EM Services first,

then next in line will be PR,

then last will be foreigner.

if now the irs are already bulit and foreigners are not allow to wrok in them, then singaporean will be hire and at a much higher pay.

these will be great for singaporean.

earn the money from foreign company.

I have a suggestion for Genting Resorts to use their aging cruise ships as offshore accomodation for their IRs in Spore and also rent it out to Marina Bay Sands foreign employees. Genting owns the Star Cruises label & other European cruise lines.

These cruise ships can be parked close to Spore harbours and not take up precious berthing space for still in business cruise ships. Ferries or boats can then be used to ferry these workers onshore.

This will spare the limited supply of HDB flats to be let out to Spore citizens and also create social harmony as these IR employees can do their own stuff on board these ships not under the scrutiny of Sporeans. Genting can hire its own security to patrol these ships.

Genting owns the cruise ship business, Star Cruises, and operates regionally within Asia from South East Asia, Greater China, and Japan. It also owns subsidiary cruise lines in Europe.

These cruise ships have a life span. Once its scheduled for scraping, why not preserve it & haul if from wherever its last destination is to Spore’s harbours. Cruise ships are ideally fitted with hotel style rooms, self contained with en suite toilets, they comes in doubles, triplets & quads. Can easily accomodate 1000 employees. It also comes with a huge kitchen to cook communal meals. Genting can hire cooks to provide meals for its employees. There are also entertainment facilities like cinemas, table tennis, tennis, swimming. Or these open spaces can also be converted to dormitory rooms.

All in all, aging cruise ships designated for scraping makes for good dormitory accomodation.

Genting can easily cut a good deal with the relevant Spore authority to get parking fees & licenses under favorable terms.

3) My Views on January 1st, 2010 5.30 pm

Don’t be silly. The majority of Singaporeans objected strongly to the building of the IRs here and remain staunchly opposed to the IRs’ opening.

Singaporeans hope that the IRs will lose money and close down. This will also free up more housing for Singaporeans.

When the government wanted to have the IRs, they said it would provide jobs for Singaporeans. I said to my friends `It’s all a big lie. When the IRs open, we will see mostly foreigners working there’. Today, the 2 blocks of flats at Toa Payoh is testament to what I said.

My Views

post #3 on January 1st, 2010 5.30 pm

////Both integrated resorts have experienced more than enough problems,…////

they are jinxed with 2 IRs, that’s double the jinx!!

hmmm, i would have thought our leaders would have sighted potential problems. you are right about both becoming white elephants, the question on my mind is, who will be blamed when that happens? S’poreans who by & large oppose it, is it?

That boils down to the FACT that Singaporeans, who served 20 years of national service, have no priviledge to rent a HDB than foreigners. It is a clear cut case that PAP is no longer standing on the side of Singaporeans. Singaporeans should wake up to their sense that they have voted in traitors of this country to rule over us and PAP has allocated our precious resources to foreigners cheaply than to Singaporeans. PAP has made itself the enemy of Singaporeans without further arguments.

Not just vote out but JAIL, CANE and RECOVER stolen people’s money !!!
These MIW demons will not repent without 2 IRs up their behind “housing”…ahem !

Skybridge at Pinnacle@Duxton opens for non-residents
By Liang Kaixin, Channel NewsAsia | Posted: 01 January 2010 2105 hrs

SINGAPORE: The Skybridge at the Pinnacle@Duxton offers a commanding view of the city.

Residents are definitely enjoying what they paid for, but from Friday onwards, non-residents can enjoy the view too for a price.

Non-residents can access the Skybridge, which straddles the 50th floor of the buildings, by paying S$5 per person.

As of 5pm on Friday, 26 people had taken up the offer, soaking in the panoramic view of the area.

- CNA/sc

Not only are they making money from selling HDB flats at skyrocket prices, they now want to charge non-residents a fee for entering HDB blocks.

I strongly hope that Singaporeans don’t waste their hard earn money on this.

Time for Change is now. Don’t live in regret. Vote for change.

This shows very clearly where the priorities of the govt are.

IRs are to stimulate economic growth, and the foreign workers are the cheaper and talented digits to operate and drive it. Obviously they must have priority over poor locals for their housing.

Poor locals are a liability to the govt, no matter what the govt say otherwise. The proof is how they are treated, not what the govt say that they care for them.

So obvious only idiots don’t get it.

let get REAL here..shall we?
i chased you out of your modest 3 31/2bedroom flat for not gettin your mortgage arrears..maybe in the sum of $700/800 or even 900/month….
i rent it out to many many foreign talents the same hdb flat you ONCED owned..
for a monthLEE rental of $1800/month guranteed…
now multiply this let says 10,000 units in arrears….
how much is the PRIVATISED hdb rakin?
p.s. who actuaLLEE owned the now socalled privatised hdb corp?
ngiam again?
no needs to poll the audiences for a lifelines…

A once sole pride of Singaporean, the HDB. What had it become? It used to be the lifeline of Singaporean to gain a significant sum of extra cash to retire. But now this was intercepted by PAP by selling the new HDB skyhigh.

Now, it is even open for rental to foreigner, so that these foreigners don’t have to rent from the local. 2nd source of income cut off also. God bless those Singaporean who don’t have the opportunity to save and yet can only live in Singapore until they die!

it’s ridiculous – prs and foreigners given hdb’s red carpet treatment and preferred housing location simply because they can UNDERCUT singaporeans in wages.

meanwhile, homeless singaporeans can roam the streets or beaches. lagi better, because then they don’t have a permanent address and can’t vote out the incumbent.

open your eyes wide wide, and vote out the pap.

i’ve resolved not to donate a single cent to local charities until singaporeans can help themselves.

My views,

the question here is priority. Singaporeans should have priority over PRs and foreigners. This is the natural law operating in every country of the world. No country on this earth gives priority to foreigners over its citizens unless they are traitors of the country. So, don’t mix up the rental of HDB flats over the operation of the casinoes

While the resentment for the foreign workers is on the rise, I have a new PR neighbour from PRC moved in less than 1 month ago. A young couple with a kindergarten daughter (nearby school). Not too friendly family (a bit snobbish). Just yesterday afternoon, they already renting out 2 bedrooms. Overhead the the potential tenants asking “Are you PR or Singaporean?” And the answer for the male owner, “I am chinese from China.” Talking about loyalty!

//Both integrated resorts have experienced more than enough problems, the last thing Singaporeans want to see is two white elephants standing on their shoreline without people operating them!//

Normal Singaporeans do not have the control and the resources to churn out white elephants. These are the play things for big players with big power who have the luxury to reformulate their cost-benefit matrix with people as part of the overall revenue or tax paying adjusting factor.

Now that the China government had stop the restriction of PRC to go Macao, Singapore casino can beat the houseflies of having rich PRC to gamble here.

I foresee a short period of surge in vist to Singapore IR and thereafter die down. It is going to be a White elephant anyway. It would be another Tang City failure as previously proposed by LKY and wasted tax payer money in the end. If so, Singaporean would face a further burden to absorb the lost.

Over dependant on foreign spending, will be the PAP and eventually the whole Singapore undoing.

Seeing complains and complains again and again. Don’t know if you are too sheltered or the education system here cannot make you see the bigger picture in Singapore. I would wish that the people who are rattling the keyboards hitting on what is going on will go out and work harder… The biggest problem here is foreigners come here and work very hard on the real productive work and many of you just working on the key boards and complaining that you will lose your job to these foreigners.

Sorry if Singaporeans’ work attitude are deteriorating, complaining but not putting in effort to improve the situation, the best bet is to get in the foreigners to make this place more competitive so that we all will improve… If you are a football fan (EPL), see why the English teams have to buy foreigners? The English players are more expensive, not always better skilled and there are not enough good players.

//If you are a football fan (EPL), see why the English teams have to buy foreigners? The English players are more expensive, not always better skilled and there are not enough good players.//

Are you hinting to us something. Thank you for bringing it up.

More expensive but not always better skilled – the world cup has also proven it. And you know why, a lot of paying suckers are being sucked into the system to support the a rather entertaining charade in the name of ‘good football & players’.

Would you care to venture a similarity here ?

//the best bet is to get in the foreigners to make this place more competitive so that we all will improve//

And the best bet is that even more complaints will be forthcoming. Can you have it any other way ? When you dip your fingers into hot boiling water, you will naturally scream.

kiasu n kiasi

post #23 on January 2nd, 2010 4.20 pm

our education is sheltered? sure anot? if our education cannot make students see the big picture who’s fault? :P

you compare workers in general to soccer players in EPL?…

#4) Conspiracy theories
‘ EM Services is a joint venture company between HDB and Keppel Land. But why does HDB need to be involved in such a company in the first place?

Something smells fishy here again….
………………………………………………………………………………

Many people do not realise there is a PAP lightning in the EM Services logo. LKY & PAP control all aspects of lives in Singapore.

I quote ST 30/12/09 what LKY said: “They (the China’s Chinese) discover that the PAP…everywhere they go, they see the PAP – in the RCs, CCCs and the CCs.

23) kiasu n kiasi

You have a point on English team buying many foreigners. Our Singapore’s lion team also have a lot of foreigners player too. Our lion team is cheaper, better and faster than English team?

“foreigners come here and work very hard on the real productive work”? Do you have any statistic to justify your point? As far as I read from the recent statistic published by our state media, our productivity has constantly dropping. It will be very helpful if you enlighten us that our state media is lying.

“Seeing complains and complains again and again”? Comparing to other countries who don’t complain but riot, is that what you which to see? Please be grateful.

23) kiasu n kiasi

You forgot one reason why we should naturally have priority over foreigners: National Service. We spend 2 years of our lives taking care of the country, and in return the country takes care of us. It’s called the social contract. The State, by favouring foreigners over Singaporeans, have broken its end of the deal.

First our jobs give foreigners, now our HDB give foreigners, I guess since you love foreigners so much, you’d expect us to give our lives to defend foreigners during wartime too la?

Of all the things the garmen has done, this is the most blantantly pro-foreigner at the expense of the local.

how can we stand by and watch this? letting in foreigners who can accept lower wages is the only possible because of these SUBSIDIES.

and who are the ones always against subsidies????

brudders, its time we stop thinking only about ourselves. think about / for our fellow brudders who are at the lower end of the economic food chain.

if enough of us tell the garmen this should not go on, it WILL make a difference.

There is clearly a lack of flats in the resale market for Singaporeans, going by the number of applicants for new flats, yet the govt chose to rent out the old flats to companies instead of transforming it into more flats for the people. This has also resulted in a shortage of resale flats in the market. This has inflated prices in the resale flats, causing hardship for young couples and man in the street, as well as enabling the govt to charge exorbitant prices for their new developments of HDB flats.

It clearly shows where the priorities of this government – providing for the big businesses instead of looking after the welfare of the people. It is not the fault of the IR, cause they are just here to do business, it is simply BAD PLANNING and GROSS MISMANAGEMENT on the side of the government.

Refer to (18) by [Hindsight].

“the question here is priority. Singaporeans should have priority over PRs and foreigners. This is the natural law operating in every country of the world. No country on this earth gives priority to foreigners over its citizens unless they are traitors of the country. So, don’t mix up the rental of HDB flats over the operation of the casinoes”

Please get the facts right first! Who needs who? It is Singapore that needs the foreign talents to contribute to its economy. You need help and so you pay the price of what the other party asked for. Throw away that bloody word called “priority”, will you! I am getting sicked of these excuses!

Refer to (28) by [The Game].

“we should naturally have priority over foreigners: National Service. We spend 2 years of our lives taking care of the country”

Don’t serve the national service, then! You got the choice to leave Singapore and become a citizen of other country!

Instead of being jobless for 2 years after school, the nation saved you that embarrassment by enlisting you into the military, providing free training, food, clothing and even footwear!

And you got the bloody cheek to demand for priority over foreigners who came here to build the country’s economy? I pity whoever governs Singapore!

My Views

post #32 on January 4th, 2010 2.50 am

sure sir, but you forgot about young men who died while on the Tour of Duty. you surely forgot the commando dunking incident, the navy collision & the jet that crashed in Taiwan…

there is nothing wrong with having more privileges as a citizen, if got no difference, then that S’porean got no pride in his/her country. might as well migrant.

you should be ashamed you even said such things.

My Views

post #31 on January 4th, 2010 2.41 am

S’pore needs people who can stand on their own 2 legs, not people who look to other people (foreigners) for help. what a loser.

Myview,

Kindly do not speak with your ass and fart with your mouth. Thanks and you will be much appreciated

///Please get the facts right first! Who needs who? It is Singapore that needs the foreign talents to contribute to its economy.///

YOU get your facts right first!!!! Who say we need foreign talents? YOUR ah kong Lee Kuan Yew & Co???! So, who built Singapore when there is no foreign talents in the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s? There are nothing talent about the foreigners like those working in the IR becoming waiters, serve the cards, bell boy, lobby attendance etc. At best they are cheaper as compared to Singaporean that’s all. Well, if serving the NS is no big F@¥k to you, then maybe you should propose to YOUR ah kong and his team to get the foreign talents to serve the army mah!!! The Government have a choice too! So they can be done hearing our complaints on serving the NS and revoke all the tax incentive to Singapore men and get more revenue from the tax!!!

Tell us who you are, so that when there is a war, we can let you be shot by the enemy. Because we Singapore men don’t want to waste bullets protective idiots like you! Yah?

Quote from “Myview”

///And you got the bloody cheek to demand for priority over foreigners who came here to build the country’s economy? I pity whoever governs Singapore!///

Don’t worry, you don’t have to pity, they don’t even care you pity or not! They are very much well fed by their high pay to even care about your pity! Keep it to yourself and don’t 自做多情 (purely your wishful thinking)! How about learn fro
your sister JANET and write a complaint letter to Singapore Police Force about us? See they care or not? LOL

Wow “myview”

//Both integrated resorts have experienced more than enough problems, the last thing Singaporeans want to see is two white elephants standing on their shoreline without people operating them!///

You know they experience big problem ah? You share holder meh?! No wonder you afraid it become big White elephant! Nevermind, go to Jalan Bersar there to open a BIG SMALL gambling den, I am sure YOUR ah kong and his team will approve your license. Then wait for your India and bangrah foreign talent to play at your den. Who know? You might become a millionaire! If really no business, you can sell your backside over there since it is so near to the red light district! Yah?!

[...] Housing – TOC: HDB flats – a precious resource for foreign workers? [...]

32) My Views on January 4th, 2010 2.50 am
Refer to (28) by [The Game].
“we should naturally have priority over foreigners: National Service. We spend 2 years of our lives taking care of the country”
Don’t serve the national service, then! You got the choice to leave Singapore and become a citizen of other country!

——————————–

That’s a great idea! It’s better to give up citizenship than fight war and give up my life for foreigners.

And you know what’s the best part? With a new citizenship I’ll come back to Sg as a foreign talent. Then I’ll take your job and your hdb flat. And you better give me those things with a smile and worship me, because I’ll be a foreign talent. That’s your attitude, right?

Unless, of course, you’re not Singaporean but foreigner. In that case, you better pray 10 times a day that PAP stays in power, because Singaporeans are losing their patience with you people.

Hi,
Dear TOC readers,
I am Sinkaporean who went oversea for further studies. I am working in UK and had two children which I had not register with the Sinkapore ambassy as they will automatically become UK citizen being a PR. It was a few years ago and never regret any of it. The government of LKY was no better then although there was few FT or FW then. Discrimination against Sinkaporean in one form or another had always been PAP’s policy. If anyone had a chance, vote with your feet and start life afresh abroad and for those who had to remain for lack of choice, use your vote wisely in the coming general election (GE). There may be situation where there is no opposition member standing against the incumber that’s a big problem.PAP had created a situation where it is dangerous to stand as a opposition member. Singaporean must find way to remove the PAP from office. I may fly back to cast my one humber vote if the time is right. Good luck.

Our forefathers and us pay taxes through all these years in order to build this nation and all the infrasturctures from roads to the clean toilets at the Changi
Airport.
Now that we are just beginning to savour a wee bit of our hard labour over the last 45 years or more,the elites uncaringly hand our jobs and now our “flats’ to the foreigners who seize the opportunity to “make even more money” at the ultimate expense of loyal citizens.
I don’t think PRs should be allowed to buy HDB

Our forefathers and us pay taxes through all these years in order to build this nation and all the infrasturctures from roads to the clean toilets at the Changi
Airport.
Now that we are just beginning to savour a wee bit of our hard labour over the last 45 years or more,the elites uncaringly hand our jobs and now our “flats’ to the foreigners who seize the opportunity to “make even more money” at the ultimate expense of loyal citizens.
I don’t think PRs should be allowed to buy HDB which is supposed to be low-cost housing for the lower-income citizens.They must first show sincerity about
wanting to make this place home,not just a sort of “casino” for them to ‘tikam”.
this freeing up of HDB to allow them to buy flats is irrational and unfair to citizens
especially the lesser among us who may get ‘crwoded’ out just like those who lost their jobs.

Foreigners not human meh? Now they are working here at low cost for Singapore, what’s so wrong about providing housing for these people? If they all go home, who is going to sweep our roads and clean public toilets, wash dishes, be waiters? Don’t be jealous of them and accuse them of stealing your jobs, because singaporeans are all too high-class to work in those jobs, singaporeans are all in air-con offices typing useless emails and printing stupid reports.

It is not as if they are given the houses for life and invited to live here, they are just merely contracted by the government to do the unsavoury jobs. I talked to the management of IR regarding their employment process, and you know what, they told me not that they don’t want to hire Singaporeans, but Singaporeans too picky to work, don’t like shift work, don’t want to stand all day, don’t like this and that, then what? Is IR going to open with 5 Singaproeans manning the whole place? Don’t be stupid, they tried their best, and not their fault that they have to get foreigners to fill jobs that high-class singaporeans don’t want.

These people work hard and get paid much less than what we, as citizens, do. Providing affordable housing for them is a humanitarian act. You want them to live in cardboard boxes because they can’t afford the expensive housing with their 800dol salary? Then who want to come over here if they earn 800 a month and have to pay half of it to rent?

I work with the CDC, and it’s very true that people will come crawling in the CDC asking government to give them subsidies and money cos they’re jobless, then when we introduce IR jobs or some kind of job to them, they refuse saying it’s too hard, too low paying, etc etc. Then what you want? Want Government to give you pocket money and pay your rent and electricity? at least take up a security job about $1000 a month is better than nothing right? Too many people trying to freeload off the kindness of the government.

If you show that you are trying, you are working and have genuine hardship, of course government will help. But if you just complaining in general that you are not getting good enough housing or priority, please, you sound like spoiled brats.

That’s the biggest problem the government have, dealing with a bunch of spoiled brats that they raised because they were too protective in the past. You guys are like the spoiled brats of rich parents who are jealous of their new adopted brother, and scream for priority because you were here first and you have blood ties.

Government make it not easy for foreigners to get PR ok, let me tell you that. I have been applying for my husband for years and still not approved. On one hand i complain that Gov is too strict on PR, on other hand u complain they give too many PRs. How to please everybody? It’s a system, not a human.

THings are much worse in many countries, be grateful you bunch of complaining, ungrateful, spoiled and ugly Singaporeans.

23) kiasu n kiasi on January 2nd, 2010 4.20 pm
If you are a football fan (EPL), see why the English teams have to buy foreigners? The English players are more expensive, not always better skilled and there are not enough good players.

Yet, if English players weren’t more expensive, etc (due to the minimum quota), I would think whole teams would be dominated by foreigners, and English probably won’t have made it to the World Cup. Just look at Singapore…so many foreigners, and we failed at the first hurdle.

@3) jaycomposer on January 5th, 2010 11.43 am

>> You want them to live in cardboard boxes because they can’t afford the expensive housing with their 800dol salary? Then who want to come over here if they earn 800 a month and have to pay half of it to rent?
…
at least take up a security job about $1000 a month is better than nothing right?

So taking $1000 per month and paying almost all in mortages, exorbitant prices, electricity tariffs, transportations is okay then.. Seriously, is $1000/mth sufficient to support a family?

The FWs are ok with this because they only need to support themselves here, while the savings that they remit back to their familes at home enables their families to lead a better life..

Question for you: Are you willing to work for $1000/mth?

To 32) My Views, “I pity whoever governs Singapore”.

Lim Swee Say says thank you for being so understanding ! but no worries, because he can feel happiness just by looking at his CPF statement and for an orgasm he only has to look at his bank account.

And LKY also convey his thanks to you, but no worries, because he is not doing any work, only make forecasts and he is still able to laugh when it’s wrong most of the time.

jaycomposer

post #43 on January 5th, 2010 11.43 am

how did you end up working with CDCs? you do not possess the right aptitude & atitude.

there must be a serious job mismatch, i implore you to do yourself a favour. do not work just for money, if you hate your job, please leave.

@ 43) jaycomposer on January 5th, 2010 11.43 am

well well well, it’s easy for you to say huh?
ok, let’s see, will you let your children work these jobs? will YOU be willing to undertake these jobs??????

in the first place, WHO was the party that degraded the status of workers of these jobs (sweepers, cleaners, etc), resulting in ppl shunning these jobs???

think of it another way, PAP must count its blessing that there are so many ppl giving feedback. this shows that deep down, we are still concerned abt this country of ours (even though we have recently just learned that we are not a country).

s’pore will be doomed if her citizens do not give feedback as this shows that they do not give a damn abt how this country goes forward (or backward?)

“I work with the CDC, and it’s very true that people will come crawling in the CDC asking government to give them subsidies and money cos they’re jobless, then when we introduce IR jobs or some kind of job to them, they refuse saying it’s too hard, too low paying, etc etc. Then what you want? Want Government to give you pocket money and pay your rent and electricity? at least take up a security job about $1000 a month is better than nothing right? Too many people trying to freeload off the kindness of the government.”

Wrong wrong wrong.

In the first place why are low-end jobs being created to meet the demands of an increasingly educated population? What exactly is going on, if not just paying lips service to Singaporean first when the jobs that are created for the IRs are not suited for the education status, nor meet the minimum pay required for a decent life – with roof over one’s head and yes, three meals at a hawker centre? That it becomes a convenient excuse to say “Ay, don’t say i neh give you job first ah, you reject one ah.”

SORRY – FEEDBACKS WILL BE ‘STONE-WALLED’

http://app.reach.gov.sg/reach/YourSay/YourDiscussionCorner/tabid/117/ptid/414/page/2147483647/threadid/2848/forumtype/posts/Default.aspx

TODAY Newpaper – 23 Nov 2009

ENGAGING THE PUBLIC ONLINE

” …………. The Government’s Reach portal, often cited as a forum for feedback, can certainly be improved.

Take its recent discussion forum on next year’s Budget as an example. While some citizens have posted suggestions, policy-makers have not responded to the thread nor acknowledged the ideas.

……………….. queries should be answered, not “stone-walled”. “

HDB SAID THE 2 TOA PAYOH BLOCKS ARE SHORT TERM USE FOR IR STAFF. HOW SHORT IS SHORT?

=====================
Extracted -
http://www.temasekreview.com/2009/12/28/hdb-reply-to-ms-aurora-longs-letter-on-conversion-of-two-hdb-flats-in-toa-payoh-into-worker-dorms/comment-page-1/#comment-53148

 SHORT TERM?

MEANING 10 YEARS? 20 YEARS? 30 YEARS? ……………

PLEASE QUANTIFY ‘SHORT TERM’ INTO ‘NUMBER OF YEARS’.

HDB Deputy Directors damn good for giving crappy n unconvincing reply, like the below,

Singaporeans will be watching those 2 blocks.

AND HDB yet to solve the 2 LUP problems.

http://app.reach.gov.sg/reach/YourSay/YourDiscussionCorner/tabid/117/ptid/414/page/2147483647/threadid/2848/forumtype/posts/Default.aspx

Extracted from
todayonline.com/Voices/EDC091126-0000059/Direct-lift-access-not-always-possible–HDB

Clementi LUP reply from HDB -
” We empathise with Mr Lim’s situation, and seek his understanding on the LUP solution implemented for his block.”

” The blue stickers on the new lifts indicate that the lift car is wheelchair friendly as it comes with handrail bars, and the doors are wide enough to accommodate a wheelchair. It does not suggest that full barrier-free accessibility has been achieved. ”

Extracted from
http://www.temasekreview.com/2009/11/30/eunos-residents-protest-against-hdbs-lift-upgrading-programme/

Eunos LUP reply from HDB -
” The diagram, explained Mr Chee, is schematic and not drawn to scale. ”
[In reply to why the lift shaft was built blocking most of the front door and one bedroom unit, when in a brochure given out to residents, the lift shaft had appeared different on the floor plan.]

http://app.reach.gov.sg/reach/YourSay/YourDiscussionCorner/tabid/117/ptid/414/page/35/totrecs/346/threadid/2427/forumtype/posts/Default.aspx

Have HDB replied Mr Leong? Anybody know?

“While thousands of Singaporeans have to wait for months to get a rental flat, why is it that foreign workers can rent and stay in HDB flats immediately?”

Actually not by months, it is by year, at least 1 year + 1 month now(13 months). Why we have to wait for so long when foreigners can rent and stay in HDB flats immediately?

Have any reply from HDB?

HDB WILL NEVER REPLY, LIKE THE BELOW 2 CASES.

Give STUPID REPLY, then pretend nothing happened.

AND HDB yet to solve the 2 LUP problems.

http://app.reach.gov.sg/reach/YourSay/YourDiscussionCorner/tabid/117/ptid/414/page/2147483647/threadid/2848/forumtype/posts/Default.aspx

Extracted from
todayonline.com/Voices/EDC091126-0000059/Direct-lift-access-not-always-possible–HDB

Clementi LUP reply from HDB -
” We empathise with Mr Lim’s situation, and seek his understanding on the LUP solution implemented for his block.”

” The blue stickers on the new lifts indicate that the lift car is wheelchair friendly as it comes with handrail bars, and the doors are wide enough to accommodate a wheelchair. It does not suggest that full barrier-free accessibility has been achieved. ”

Extracted from
http://www.temasekreview.com/2009/11/30/eunos-residents-protest-against-hdbs-lift-upgrading-programme/

Eunos LUP reply from HDB -
” The diagram, explained Mr Chee, is schematic and not drawn to scale. ”
[In reply to why the lift shaft was built blocking most of the front door and one bedroom unit, when in a brochure given out to residents, the lift shaft had appeared different on the floor plan.]

You all must believe what the man said.

IGNORE WHAT’S IN THE BRACKET [ ].
HE DINT SAY THAT.
.
.
“ No One Will Be Left Behind “ [ Just Left Aside To Die ] http://news.asiaone.com/News/NDP+Rally+2007/NDP+Rally+2007.html
“ Singaporeans Comes First For Govt “ [ First To Be Left Behind ] http://news.asiaone.com/News/the%2BStraits%2BTimes/Story/A1Story20100101-189132.html

To,
We are Citizens of Singapore – posting #53
No Reply? – posting #54

I think posting #55 above [ been in TOC, REACH, Straits Times forum, TODAYonline forum etc, and the below should answer your question.

-
http://www.temasekreview.com/2009/12/28/hdb-reply-to-ms-aurora-longs-letter-on-conversion-of-two-hdb-flats-in-toa-payoh-into-worker-dorms/comment-page-1/#comment-54621


 Fugazzi on Sun, 3rd Jan 2010 8:25 pm

……………….. – and what u are going to get is the standard replies or a convoluted one not only from HDB, … one can add on. The truth,integrity,principles – no, it is completely alien to them.

 HDB ONLY REPLY ONE TIME – HDB DONT REPLY TO FURTHER QUERIES on Wed, 6th Jan 2010 4:58 pm

HDB ONLY REPLY ONE TIME – HDB DONT REPLY TO FURTHER QUERIES
Is the above, HDB’s Corporate standard

The messages forward by Reach to the agencies do not have any reply?
I guess the reason is Reach itself also don’t like to reply enquiry, so Reach can not convince other agencies to reply.

If you talk louder to a wall it will give you at least an echo, when you throw somethings into a sea it would sink down then disappear, but you will still can heard a sound and see some ripples.

So next time send the feedback to the sea or tell the wall, it would better than send it to Reach for forwarding or send it to the agency!

[...] “Why is it that a Singaporean has to pay at least $350 for a place to live, when an IR foreign worker can rent for as little as $140?” Leong Sze Hian [...]

To “30) thumos on January 3rd, 2010 1.51 pm. Your comment that,

“it is simply BAD PLANNING and GROSS MISMANAGEMENT on the side of the government. ” can be SUMMED-UP into One Term! And it IS call “MANAGEMENT BY CRISIS”. And it is so, because most of the PAP’s actions are “Reactionary” in nature, except for their money making stance which IS “Proactive”.

So ultimately, Singaporeans become “Sacrificial Lambs” for PAP government & It’s entities monetary gains which include all of their top Singaporean talents in Civil Service too which are also paid “FAT” and so won’t squeal.

The rest of us are just for “slaughter” as he deems fit from what and how LKY views us per what he said to The National Geographic recently about PRCs. About them being more “Hard-Driving and Hard-Striving”. He is more about he and his government looking on top of every other government in the world ya! Why else he goes around even telling the Japanese to follow his “style”? Then realized he is an exception and goofed by saying he “deosn’t do the work anymore and just forecasting”! SEE his GIGANTO EGO APPETITE for FAME and Fortune!!!

Elderly are forced by current HDB rental rules to live in pairs in small one-room rental flats. Some used to work as Samsui women and Ah-Meh cheh. Although independent, they are not allowed to rent the single space for single occupancy. Personal conflcts are common as the they face other day after day.
Appeals to HDB to waive the compulsory pairing in such rental one-room flats were always met with the same template reply of insufficient supply and that it is “for their own good to care for each other!”
This is how this generation of hardworking elderly is being treated, with no value on their autonomy and dignity!

Refer to (33) by [mice is nice].

“sure sir, but you forgot about young men who died while on the Tour of Duty. you surely forgot the commando dunking incident, the navy collision & the jet that crashed in Taiwan…”

You mean to tell me that soldiers in other countries do not die in the course of discharging their duties?

Refer to (35) by [RED-man].

“” Well, if serving the NS is no big F@¥k to you, then maybe you should propose to YOUR ah kong and his team to get the foreign talents to serve the army mah!!!”

You serve the national service to protect your family and the nation. Get this basic fact right first.

Foreign talents are here to help build up Singapore’s economy. They are not responsible for defending Singapore and its citizens. Indeed, prior to the start of a war, it is the SAF’s responsibility to ensure all foreigners and non-citizens leave Singapore safely and in good time before the first round is fired. That is international protocol – before trouble starts, you advise foreigners not to come and for those are already here, you provide a safe passage for them to leave.

Why are you not aware of this?

The Government have a choice too! So they can be done hearing our complaints on serving the NS and revoke all the tax incentive to Singapore men and get more revenue from the tax!!!

Tell us who you are, so that when there is a war, we can let you be shot by the enemy. Because we Singapore men don’t want to waste bullets protective idiots like you! Ya

Error in (61). The following replaced my views in (61) :

Refer to (35) by [RED-man].

“” Well, if serving the NS is no big F@¥k to you, then maybe you should propose to YOUR ah kong and his team to get the foreign talents to serve the army mah!!!”

You serve the national service to protect your family and the nation. Get this basic fact right first.

Foreign talents are here to help build up Singapore’s economy. They are not responsible for defending Singapore and its citizens. Indeed, prior to the start of a war, it is the SAF’s responsibility to ensure all foreigners and non-citizens leave Singapore safely and in good time before the first round is fired. That is international protocol – before trouble starts, you advise foreigners not to come and for those are already here, you provide a safe passage for them to leave.

Why are you not aware of this?

Refer to (41) by [Homegrown].

“I don’t think PRs should be allowed to buy HDB”

Without PRs buying, your HDB flat value would have fallen like a tonne of rocks! Don’t bite the hand that is supporting your valuable home!

My Views

post #60 on January 10th, 2010 3.50 am

////You mean to tell me that soldiers in other countries do not die in the course of discharging their duties?////

that will depend on whether that other country treat its conscripts. & not many countries draft conscripts.

post #62 on January 10th, 2010 4.11 am

////You serve the national service to protect your family and the nation. Get this basic fact right first.////

serve the country? sure, but what in exchange do citizens get? is it any wonder the TFR rate are always declining?

–> male citizens serve country
–> “country” did not take care of citizens
–> citizens find it harder & harder to start family
–> less families = less babies
–> less babies = less men to serve country
–> “country” complain & complain not enough babies, but “act blurr” as to why less & less babies every year…

when the “parents” cant secure a roof, where got babies? hen lay eggs (to hatch) also need to ensure the conditions are of minimal satisfactory. hens know, humans dun??…

My Views

post #63 on January 10th, 2010 4.18 am

////Without PRs buying, your HDB flat value would have fallen like a tonne of rocks! Don’t bite the hand that is supporting your valuable home! ////

you so rely on PRs? they how reliable? they got serve NS to protect their families & the nation anot? will they protect S’pore anot? can you confirm it through MSM?

old people who have retired would be unaffected by the rise is value, most will stay put till they RIP. most are not greedy & 1 2 earn $$, are easily contented & will not sell just to make a quick buck, they value the ties between close neighbours, the bonds they have with the neighbourhood shop owners.

some values cannot be measured with $$. HDB must see long term (nation building), not short term ($$). unless HDB is now HDB Pte. Ltd. den dun say lah…

@63) My Views on January 10th, 2010 4.18 am

>>Without PRs buying, your HDB flat value would have fallen like a tonne of rocks! Don’t bite the hand that is supporting your valuable home!

So, is that the best that pap can do? Get PRs here to jack up hdb prices?

Not all hdb owners own multiple properties, so what if the hdb flat can fetch a million $? Sell and stay in void deck, or rent and pay high rental?

With high hdb prices, and stagnant salaries, the younger generation is going to have a hard time starting a family…

“2 is enough” – failed policy, so need more PRs to boost population.
“Open door policy” – going to be a failure in future, since 2nd generation PRs who take up citizenship are going to face the same situation.

CPF minimum sum keeps going up (2009 increases of $13000 from $104k to $117k).. How many can meet these huge increases?

http://app.reach.gov.sg/reach/YourSay/YourDiscussionCorner/tabid/117/ptid/414/page/36/totrecs/361/threadid/2427/forumtype/posts/Default.aspx

Share with you the reply from HDB at 11 Jan 2010:

”
I refer to your email of 7 Jan 10.

2 The blocks that you have mentioned (Blocks 32 and 33 Toa Payoh Lor 5) were announced for Selective En bloc Redevelopment Scheme (SERS) as part of the Government’s Estate Renewal Strategy. After they are vacated, SERS blocks are demolished according to the redevelopment plans. Pending demolition, the flats are put to interim short-term use.

3 As these flats will be demolished eventually, they are less suitable for HDB’s Public Rental Scheme as the tenants would then have to move in a few years time. To meet the demand for rental flats under the Public Rental Scheme, HDB will be building 7,500 units of new 1-room and 2-room rental flats in the next 3 years.

4 Besides the 2 blocks mentioned, there is another vacated SERS block (block 28) which has been set aside for Interim Rental Housing (IRH). IRH provides temporary housing for citizen families with financial difficulties, in particular, those who are moving from their current flat to another flat that is financially sustainable for them. The IRH flats are offered to these households below the market rent.

5 The managing agent, EM Services Pte Ltd, rents out all other flats at market rent, except for IRH. There are no special rental concessions. The average monthly rent for each flat is about $1,500, which is the market rate. Singapore Citizens can also rent these flats from the managing agent.

6 These blocks are leased out on a short term basis, pending the future redevelopment of the site.

7 Thank you.
”

The enquiry I sent to QSM HDB:

”
Two of the HDB blocks in Toa Payoh will be rented out to foreign workers from the Integrated Resorts, this is not the first time that HDB flats are being rented out to foreigners from HDB directly.

When thousands of Singapore applicants are told to wait for at least a year and a month (13 months) to get a rental HDB flat, why is it the foreigners can rent and stay in HDB flats immediately?

We are Citizens of Singapore, why HDB discriminate us?
Why we have to wait for so long but foreigners totally no need to wait?
“

Sound reasonable, but the homeless will still have to wait for 1 to 2 years.

///is financially sustainable for them. The IRH flats are offered to these households below the market rent.///

two years later, I wonder what will be the below the Market rent????

///Without PRs buying, your HDB flat value would have fallen like a tonne of rocks! Don’t bite the hand that is supporting your valuable home!///

for public housing in the name of subsidization (though there are doubts) and meant to meet the housing needs of locals, there is no need for it to rise and fall too much at all.

the real cost subsidization (if it is really there) by itself alone is already a great benefit. no one loves biting hands, however what we are having now is the pushing of high price & creating the hastened inflationary effect to future buyers who may well be our children, etc. the cycle of high price will affect the resale market which in turn will affect new houses in order to close the gap (a logical excuse for the authority if they need any) and then back to resale market – what a wonderful merry go round and the start of another wonderful blame game.

“You serve the national service to protect your family and the nation. Get this basic fact right first.”

what a good way to say it. and f this basic fact. i wonder the intended tenet behind all this bullshit is even true anymore.

“Foreign talents are here to help build up Singapore’s economy. They are not responsible for defending Singapore and its citizens.”

enjoy your own spins while you still can. Singapore’s economy ? national service ? maybe you could spin for us on the distribution of obligations & returns among the different stakeholders. like i said, enjoy your own spins while you still can and while this going-to-be-obsolete skill can still do its last tricks on some unwary school kids.

//You serve the national service to protect your family and the nation. Get this basic fact right first.//

“My Views”

What took you so long to reply? Can figure out a good reply? Other then photocopy 100% what the MIW said and what the SPH print, you just like the parrot in the Jurong bird park at best.

Now please don’t be a mountain turtle and start stepping out of your house and look at this world. Your thought is like a straight long tunnel which I don’t believe you are capable of seeing the light any sooner.

In case you don’t know that in France there is a army call the “legion” where they allow foreigner (even with criminal) background from other country to join their army. After their service, they will be given citizenship for their contribution.

As usual, nothing from your little chicken brain of yours. In hokkien, we say Kiam Lan Kan (need people to f@uk you)!

You are like a dog spinning around trying to bite your own tail. Try harder next time and improve your general knowledge before you try to reply people.

Dear all,

I urge to ignore this K1 IQ fellow “my views”. Stop wasting your time on this person!

In war time, if I have the last bullet and I am facing with a enemy and people like “my views” the chicken. I will not hesitate to use it on your mouth and eventually pass thru that small brain of yours.

Protect the nation? Not if the nation full of shit head like yours! Please go play with 20 cents coin at one corner of the room. Thanks

///Without PRs buying, your HDB flat value would have fallen like a tonne of rocks! Don’t bite the hand that is supporting your valuable home!//

without PR, there probably no one to UP your ass!

Refer to (66) by [lim].

“So, is that the best that pap can do? Get PRs here to jack up hdb prices?”

A more intelligent question is : given Singapore’s constraints, could any other government do better than the PAP Government?

“Not all hdb owners own multiple properties, so what if the hdb flat can fetch a million $? Sell and stay in void deck, or rent and pay high rental?”

There is such a word called “up-grading”; i.e. from a 3-room apartment, you upgrade it to a 4-room or 5-room apartment. It is a signal that one has made it or one has progressed.

[i]A more intelligent question is : given Singapore’s constraints, could any other government do better than the PAP Government?[/i]

you meant that nelson mandala is not doin allright @ all?
south africa must be not in diamond minin as well
and sri lanka only have woman tamil tigers in their zoo…
is that what you are tryin to says?

Refer to (65) by [mice is nice].

“you so rely on PRs? they how reliable? they got serve NS to protect their families & the nation anot? will they protect S’pore anot? ”

What? PRs to protect Singapore? Are you mad? I say, lets be reasonable.

It took so much bloody efforts to persuade them to come Singapore and apply for the PR. They up-rooted their whole family to come here to help building up Singapore’s economy. The minimum decency Singaporeans should do, in time of troubles, is to ensure these PRs get out of the country safely and as soon as possible before they are harmed!

I suspect you guys may find it hard to swallow, but a fact remains a fact, among all the foreign talents, the PRs are the most precious human assets Singapore has stolen from other nations. You lose them, you make your competitors stronger!

Just look at this year’s top PSLE student – from China! Look at top GCE “O” Level student – from Malaysia! What does it tell you? The government has finally and successfully made Singapore an attractive place where talents all over the world are willing to come here, stay here, live here and help to build up this tiny island. Thanks goodness, decades of hardworks and carefully synchronised efforts have finally laid the solid foundation to prepare Singapore’s economy for the next Great Leap Forward!

Refer to (72) by [RED-man].

“In war time, if I have the last bullet and I am facing with a enemy and people like “my views” the chicken. I will not hesitate to use it on your mouth and eventually pass thru that small brain of yours.

Protect the nation? Not if the nation full of shit head like yours! Please go play with 20 cents coin at one corner of the room. Thanks”

The trouble with you, and many others here, is that you refused to look at the same issue from a macro view and in the long term interests of the nation as a whole. You chose to let politicians from the Opposition Camp to cloud your views and judgements. Please bear in mind that these politicians have never managed a country in their lives at all. They know nothing about politics, they know nothing about economics, they know nothing about social stability.

My Views

post #76 on January 13th, 2010 3.54 am

its reasonable to assume PRS who chose to uproot from their motherland did so because they benefit 1 way or another to come here. their contribution to S’pore must be viewed in its entirety- whether S’poreans benefit, contributions beyond GDP figures but also more intangible things like social fabric, a more gracious (not dog eat dog worldview of survival of the fittest) society, greater individual tolerance. but reality for most indicates a greater intolerance because of some HBD policies, job insecurities, & a downward drive in wages widening the income gap.

well, S’pore being such a small country cannot buy enough to deprive competitors of talents. that is a fact maybe you’ll like to consider. not even a country the size of China & USA combined can buy them all & house them. be realistic lah. if our dear leaders think like you, S’pore will go bankrupt in months.

while you go on harping on how far (extra mile?) S’pore go to attract potential (not yet proven, but groomed by our education system?) talents, why not groom our own local population? afterall, if all foreigners are talents (but still need our education system to groom), why not groom locals? their roots are already here. no need to uproot unless, there are snobs among our leaders who look down on locals.

why do locals uproot themselves yet are 2nd class citizens elsewhere? why S’pore is the other way round? if you know the answer, it will go a long way to deprive “competitors” of our locally groomed talents.

as the saying goes “the grass is greener on the other side”. do our leaders hold this view? i really wonder.

My Views

post #77 on January 13th, 2010 4.07 am

////… they know nothing about social stability.////

reality indicates otherwise.

@To meet the demand for rental flats under the Public Rental Scheme, HDB will be building 7,500 units of new 1-room and 2-room rental flats in the next 3 years.

Alas, so many poor people, that HDB have to built so many rental flats (7500 units)…sigh…and yet they call HDB affordable. If they can afford it, then they wont need to rent it liao lol….the PAP really think we r goons by sweet talking us.

“You chose to let politicians from the Opposition Camp to cloud your views and judgements. Please bear in mind that these politicians have never managed a country in their lives at all.”

going by your rationale, singles should not marry because they never have had married before. couples should not have babies because they never have had babies before. opposition should not become the next garment as they have never managed a country in their lives at all.

then how the hell the incumbent party managed to start in the first place. how do the old mps & ministars of the incumbent party being replaced by new inexperienced ones under a process which call it self-renewal.

your shit brain is clouded with too much chalky dust from your school days. you would have still stuck to your diapers if your parents did not try to put on pants / skirts for you when you grew up (even though you did not have the experience).

Actually, it not the PR fault at all. It is the HDB fault. They r the ones that decided the prices, armed with their figures. PR r just like cannon fodder for HDB to deflect criticism of their money making schemes.

Hope Sg ppl smart up from this tactics.

.
.
Singaporeans are homeless / dont have HDB flats to rent,
http://theonlinecitizen.com/2010/01/people-of-the-tents/comment-page-1/#comment-126512

AND THEY ARE RENTING 2 WHOLE BLOCKS OF HDB FLATS TO FOREIGN WORKERS.

Singaporeans FIRST indeed.

???????????????????????
.
.
.
“ No One Will Be Left Behind “ [ Just Left Aside To Die ] http://news.asiaone.com/News/NDP+Rally+2007/NDP+Rally+2007.html
“ Singaporeans Come First For Govt “ [ “Top Priority" To Be Left Behind ] http://news.asiaone.com/News/the%2BStraits%2BTimes/Story/A1Story20100101-189132.html

[i]The trouble with you, and many others here, is that you refused to look at the same issue from a macro view and in the long term interests of the nation as a whole. [/i]
yeap indeed a macro view
like for example onLEE you and YOUR famiLLEE would let leekuanyew to rule you..lekuanyew asked you to jump..you would had replied HOW HIGH?
instead of shovin your 2 middle fingers @ him?

[i]Please bear in mind that these politicians have never managed a country in their lives at all. They know nothing about politics, they know nothing about economics, they know nothing about social stability.[/i]

and south african must be runnin liked cannibals?

Foreigners are cheaper?
Who made the cost of being a Singaporean so high?
Who always increase GST?
Who always increase Utilities bill?
Who always increase the prices of our HDB flats?

And these Foreigners.
Do they need to pay monthly SC&C?
Do they need to pay monthly HDB installment?
Do they need to pay monthly Utilities bill?
Do they need to Annual Property TAX and Radio/TV license?

We are not as hardworking as the foreigners?
Do they need to return to their dorm to take care of their family after work?
Do they need sent their children to school before work?
Not for them, because their family are not here with them.

My View

Please get the facts right first! Who needs who? It is Singapore that needs the foreign talents to contribute to its economy. You need help and so you pay the price of what the other party asked for. Throw away that bloody word called “priority”, will you! I am getting sicked of these excuses!

Singapore needs the foreigners ???? Don’t be blind and easily fooled. Which Singaporeans needs the foreigners???? It is those big foreign corporations and rich employers (local or foreign) that needs those foreigners so that they can have a big profits for themselves and throw all those rubbish that these foreigners brought with them to us. The ordinary Singapore certainly and definitely don’t need those foreigners.

My view – 31

Which government in the world does not gives prority to its citizens over foreigners??? Therefore as citizens of Singapoe, we must must have prority over foreigners who comes here. This is the natural law in this universe.

Don’t over use the term “priority”. Next time, there will be someone claiming that Singaporean must have the priority to take a seat on the bus and MRT.

Don’t over use the term “priority”.
Next time, there will be someone claiming that Singaporean must have the priority to take a seat on the bus and MRT.

Refer to (85) by [iamagovernmentdoubleagent ].

“and south african must be runnin liked cannibals? ”

I am not sure on this, but we do know that their economy despite being rich in natural resources, is nowhere as good as Singapore’s.

Refer to (87) by [Hindsight].

“Singapore needs the foreigners ???? Don’t be blind and easily fooled. Which Singaporeans needs the foreigners???? It is those big foreign corporations and rich employers (local or foreign) that needs those foreigners so that they can have a big profits for themselves and throw all those rubbish that these foreigners brought with them to us. The ordinary Singapore certainly and definitely don’t need those foreigners. ”

Who built your HDB flats and casinos? Who cleaned the public toliets? Who manned your NTUC coffee-shops? Who cleaned up the dead bodies? Who cleaned up your streets under the hot sun?

Singaporeans refused to do these jobs. The government is left with no choice but to bring in all these specialists from overseas.

Refer to (88) by [Hindsight].

“Which government in the world does not gives prority to its citizens over foreigners??? ”

And look at what happened to these countries now. They are in deep troubles.

In Particular you have a roof, and you are well seated in the comfort zone, aye.

Our Government never admit to failure, what you read is on the news paper and depending on which one you read also (Pls don’t tell me new paper).

Have you been to countries that is third world to you and where have you been?

They might not be rich nation, but the People and their Leader pretty well balance though.

Country that do well in Economy does not represent that the people are doing well, like us, our Government has deep pockets, but the population don’t share it though, sometime we get change thrown at us, not bad though better then FA.

The Government Providing to the people is a task and will never end ( Housing), so where you stand and what you do is vital and important.

Well I m not stir up storm here, but I suggest, for the IRs employee, I think they should not used the HDB for accommodation, it is going to take up space and creating social problem.

Instead their Employer should arrange other means of lodging for their employees.

How they do it, don’t want to know!