The following is a letter from Mr Leong Sze Hian to the Today newspaper. It was published on Today Online on 31 Dec 2009.
I REFER to “Asset that keeps growing” (Dec 30) and reports that two Housing and Development Board (HDB) blocks in Toa Payoh will be rented out to foreign workers from the Integrated Resorts (IR).
The report states that, “Looking to next year, Mr Mah said the opening of the two Integrated Resorts will lead to higher demand for housing.”
It also quoted Mr Mah Bow Tan as saying: “But we’ll increase the supply as well.”
My friend, who is unemployed, asked me what is the cheapest rental that he, as a single person, can get in Singapore, as he can no longer afford the single-room rental in an HDB flat.
I understand that the cheapest single- room rental in an HDB flat is about $350. As far as I know, the cheapest rental is $140 in a shared HDB flat, from EM Services. However, this option is only for foreigners and is not open to Singaporeans.
Why is it that a Singaporean has to pay at least $350 for a place to live, when an IR foreign worker can rent for as little as $140?
While thousands of Singaporeans have to wait for months to get a rental flat, why is it that foreign workers can rent and stay in HDB flats immediately?
So why are these blocks now being used to house foreign workers for rental profit?
This is not the first time that HDB flats are being rented out to foreigners, as I understand that there are flats in Woodlands used for this purpose.
HDB flats, being public housing – a precious, limited resource, and much in demand – should only be reserved for Singaporeans.
HELP keep the voice of TOC alive!
If you like this article, please consider a small donation to help theonlinecitizen.com stay alive. Please note that we can only accept donations from Singaporeans. Thank you for your assistance.Do you have a flair for writing? Volunteer with us. Email us your full name and contact details to theonlinecitizen@gmail.com
Good point. Maybe cos if the foreigners have no place to stay, they will just leave, but citizens have no where else to go.
is HDB a social enterprise or corporate 1? there can be no such thing as half here & half there.
the only half here half must be the former NKF.
Oh, no, Mr. Leong Sze Hian, please stop all your nonsense!
Singapore’s economy is still at the early stage of recovery and people are looking forward to the two integrated resorts as a further engine to drive growth.
Both integrated resorts have experienced more than enough problems, the last thing Singaporeans want to see is two white elephants standing on their shoreline without people operating them!
EM Services is a joint venture company between HDB and Keppel Land. But why does HDB need to be involved in such a company in the first place?
Also, EM Services provides property management and valuation services on HDB flats. Does it not mean that HDB is effectively having a say in the pricing of flats in the resale market and hence playing market maker?
Something smells fishy here again….
My Views
post #3 on January 1st, 2010 5.30 pm
oh my, are those 2 IRs S’pore’s only engines? not yet operational already got problems, lol…
there is optimism & there is blind optimism.
should let all singaporean to wish to rent the $140 shared HDB flat from EM Services first,
then next in line will be PR,
then last will be foreigner.
if now the irs are already bulit and foreigners are not allow to wrok in them, then singaporean will be hire and at a much higher pay.
these will be great for singaporean.
earn the money from foreign company.
I have a suggestion for Genting Resorts to use their aging cruise ships as offshore accomodation for their IRs in Spore and also rent it out to Marina Bay Sands foreign employees. Genting owns the Star Cruises label & other European cruise lines.
These cruise ships can be parked close to Spore harbours and not take up precious berthing space for still in business cruise ships. Ferries or boats can then be used to ferry these workers onshore.
This will spare the limited supply of HDB flats to be let out to Spore citizens and also create social harmony as these IR employees can do their own stuff on board these ships not under the scrutiny of Sporeans. Genting can hire its own security to patrol these ships.
Genting owns the cruise ship business, Star Cruises, and operates regionally within Asia from South East Asia, Greater China, and Japan. It also owns subsidiary cruise lines in Europe.
These cruise ships have a life span. Once its scheduled for scraping, why not preserve it & haul if from wherever its last destination is to Spore’s harbours. Cruise ships are ideally fitted with hotel style rooms, self contained with en suite toilets, they comes in doubles, triplets & quads. Can easily accomodate 1000 employees. It also comes with a huge kitchen to cook communal meals. Genting can hire cooks to provide meals for its employees. There are also entertainment facilities like cinemas, table tennis, tennis, swimming. Or these open spaces can also be converted to dormitory rooms.
All in all, aging cruise ships designated for scraping makes for good dormitory accomodation.
Genting can easily cut a good deal with the relevant Spore authority to get parking fees & licenses under favorable terms.
3) My Views on January 1st, 2010 5.30 pm
Don’t be silly. The majority of Singaporeans objected strongly to the building of the IRs here and remain staunchly opposed to the IRs’ opening.
Singaporeans hope that the IRs will lose money and close down. This will also free up more housing for Singaporeans.
When the government wanted to have the IRs, they said it would provide jobs for Singaporeans. I said to my friends `It’s all a big lie. When the IRs open, we will see mostly foreigners working there’. Today, the 2 blocks of flats at Toa Payoh is testament to what I said.
My Views
post #3 on January 1st, 2010 5.30 pm
////Both integrated resorts have experienced more than enough problems,…////
they are jinxed with 2 IRs, that’s double the jinx!!
hmmm, i would have thought our leaders would have sighted potential problems. you are right about both becoming white elephants, the question on my mind is, who will be blamed when that happens? S’poreans who by & large oppose it, is it?
That boils down to the FACT that Singaporeans, who served 20 years of national service, have no priviledge to rent a HDB than foreigners. It is a clear cut case that PAP is no longer standing on the side of Singaporeans. Singaporeans should wake up to their sense that they have voted in traitors of this country to rule over us and PAP has allocated our precious resources to foreigners cheaply than to Singaporeans. PAP has made itself the enemy of Singaporeans without further arguments.
Not just vote out but JAIL, CANE and RECOVER stolen people’s money !!!
These MIW demons will not repent without 2 IRs up their behind “housing”…ahem !
Skybridge at Pinnacle@Duxton opens for non-residents
By Liang Kaixin, Channel NewsAsia | Posted: 01 January 2010 2105 hrs
SINGAPORE: The Skybridge at the Pinnacle@Duxton offers a commanding view of the city.
Residents are definitely enjoying what they paid for, but from Friday onwards, non-residents can enjoy the view too for a price.
Non-residents can access the Skybridge, which straddles the 50th floor of the buildings, by paying S$5 per person.
As of 5pm on Friday, 26 people had taken up the offer, soaking in the panoramic view of the area.
- CNA/sc
Not only are they making money from selling HDB flats at skyrocket prices, they now want to charge non-residents a fee for entering HDB blocks.
I strongly hope that Singaporeans don’t waste their hard earn money on this.
Time for Change is now. Don’t live in regret. Vote for change.
This shows very clearly where the priorities of the govt are.
IRs are to stimulate economic growth, and the foreign workers are the cheaper and talented digits to operate and drive it. Obviously they must have priority over poor locals for their housing.
Poor locals are a liability to the govt, no matter what the govt say otherwise. The proof is how they are treated, not what the govt say that they care for them.
So obvious only idiots don’t get it.
let get REAL here..shall we?
i chased you out of your modest 3 31/2bedroom flat for not gettin your mortgage arrears..maybe in the sum of $700/800 or even 900/month….
i rent it out to many many foreign talents the same hdb flat you ONCED owned..
for a monthLEE rental of $1800/month guranteed…
now multiply this let says 10,000 units in arrears….
how much is the PRIVATISED hdb rakin?
p.s. who actuaLLEE owned the now socalled privatised hdb corp?
ngiam again?
no needs to poll the audiences for a lifelines…
A once sole pride of Singaporean, the HDB. What had it become? It used to be the lifeline of Singaporean to gain a significant sum of extra cash to retire. But now this was intercepted by PAP by selling the new HDB skyhigh.
Now, it is even open for rental to foreigner, so that these foreigners don’t have to rent from the local. 2nd source of income cut off also. God bless those Singaporean who don’t have the opportunity to save and yet can only live in Singapore until they die!
it’s ridiculous – prs and foreigners given hdb’s red carpet treatment and preferred housing location simply because they can UNDERCUT singaporeans in wages.
meanwhile, homeless singaporeans can roam the streets or beaches. lagi better, because then they don’t have a permanent address and can’t vote out the incumbent.
open your eyes wide wide, and vote out the pap.
i’ve resolved not to donate a single cent to local charities until singaporeans can help themselves.
My views,
the question here is priority. Singaporeans should have priority over PRs and foreigners. This is the natural law operating in every country of the world. No country on this earth gives priority to foreigners over its citizens unless they are traitors of the country. So, don’t mix up the rental of HDB flats over the operation of the casinoes
While the resentment for the foreign workers is on the rise, I have a new PR neighbour from PRC moved in less than 1 month ago. A young couple with a kindergarten daughter (nearby school). Not too friendly family (a bit snobbish). Just yesterday afternoon, they already renting out 2 bedrooms. Overhead the the potential tenants asking “Are you PR or Singaporean?” And the answer for the male owner, “I am chinese from China.” Talking about loyalty!
//Both integrated resorts have experienced more than enough problems, the last thing Singaporeans want to see is two white elephants standing on their shoreline without people operating them!//
Normal Singaporeans do not have the control and the resources to churn out white elephants. These are the play things for big players with big power who have the luxury to reformulate their cost-benefit matrix with people as part of the overall revenue or tax paying adjusting factor.
Now that the China government had stop the restriction of PRC to go Macao, Singapore casino can beat the houseflies of having rich PRC to gamble here.
I foresee a short period of surge in vist to Singapore IR and thereafter die down. It is going to be a White elephant anyway. It would be another Tang City failure as previously proposed by LKY and wasted tax payer money in the end. If so, Singaporean would face a further burden to absorb the lost.
Over dependant on foreign spending, will be the PAP and eventually the whole Singapore undoing.
Seeing complains and complains again and again. Don’t know if you are too sheltered or the education system here cannot make you see the bigger picture in Singapore. I would wish that the people who are rattling the keyboards hitting on what is going on will go out and work harder… The biggest problem here is foreigners come here and work very hard on the real productive work and many of you just working on the key boards and complaining that you will lose your job to these foreigners.
Sorry if Singaporeans’ work attitude are deteriorating, complaining but not putting in effort to improve the situation, the best bet is to get in the foreigners to make this place more competitive so that we all will improve… If you are a football fan (EPL), see why the English teams have to buy foreigners? The English players are more expensive, not always better skilled and there are not enough good players.
//If you are a football fan (EPL), see why the English teams have to buy foreigners? The English players are more expensive, not always better skilled and there are not enough good players.//
Are you hinting to us something. Thank you for bringing it up.
More expensive but not always better skilled – the world cup has also proven it. And you know why, a lot of paying suckers are being sucked into the system to support the a rather entertaining charade in the name of ‘good football & players’.
Would you care to venture a similarity here ?
//the best bet is to get in the foreigners to make this place more competitive so that we all will improve//
And the best bet is that even more complaints will be forthcoming. Can you have it any other way ? When you dip your fingers into hot boiling water, you will naturally scream.
kiasu n kiasi
post #23 on January 2nd, 2010 4.20 pm
our education is sheltered? sure anot? if our education cannot make students see the big picture who’s fault? :P
you compare workers in general to soccer players in EPL?…
#4) Conspiracy theories
‘ EM Services is a joint venture company between HDB and Keppel Land. But why does HDB need to be involved in such a company in the first place?
Something smells fishy here again….
………………………………………………………………………………
Many people do not realise there is a PAP lightning in the EM Services logo. LKY & PAP control all aspects of lives in Singapore.
I quote ST 30/12/09 what LKY said: “They (the China’s Chinese) discover that the PAP…everywhere they go, they see the PAP – in the RCs, CCCs and the CCs.
23) kiasu n kiasi
You have a point on English team buying many foreigners. Our Singapore’s lion team also have a lot of foreigners player too. Our lion team is cheaper, better and faster than English team?
“foreigners come here and work very hard on the real productive work”? Do you have any statistic to justify your point? As far as I read from the recent statistic published by our state media, our productivity has constantly dropping. It will be very helpful if you enlighten us that our state media is lying.
“Seeing complains and complains again and again”? Comparing to other countries who don’t complain but riot, is that what you which to see? Please be grateful.
23) kiasu n kiasi
You forgot one reason why we should naturally have priority over foreigners: National Service. We spend 2 years of our lives taking care of the country, and in return the country takes care of us. It’s called the social contract. The State, by favouring foreigners over Singaporeans, have broken its end of the deal.
First our jobs give foreigners, now our HDB give foreigners, I guess since you love foreigners so much, you’d expect us to give our lives to defend foreigners during wartime too la?
Of all the things the garmen has done, this is the most blantantly pro-foreigner at the expense of the local.
how can we stand by and watch this? letting in foreigners who can accept lower wages is the only possible because of these SUBSIDIES.
and who are the ones always against subsidies????
brudders, its time we stop thinking only about ourselves. think about / for our fellow brudders who are at the lower end of the economic food chain.
if enough of us tell the garmen this should not go on, it WILL make a difference.
There is clearly a lack of flats in the resale market for Singaporeans, going by the number of applicants for new flats, yet the govt chose to rent out the old flats to companies instead of transforming it into more flats for the people. This has also resulted in a shortage of resale flats in the market. This has inflated prices in the resale flats, causing hardship for young couples and man in the street, as well as enabling the govt to charge exorbitant prices for their new developments of HDB flats.
It clearly shows where the priorities of this government – providing for the big businesses instead of looking after the welfare of the people. It is not the fault of the IR, cause they are just here to do business, it is simply BAD PLANNING and GROSS MISMANAGEMENT on the side of the government.
Refer to (18) by [Hindsight].
“the question here is priority. Singaporeans should have priority over PRs and foreigners. This is the natural law operating in every country of the world. No country on this earth gives priority to foreigners over its citizens unless they are traitors of the country. So, don’t mix up the rental of HDB flats over the operation of the casinoes”
Please get the facts right first! Who needs who? It is Singapore that needs the foreign talents to contribute to its economy. You need help and so you pay the price of what the other party asked for. Throw away that bloody word called “priority”, will you! I am getting sicked of these excuses!
Refer to (28) by [The Game].
“we should naturally have priority over foreigners: National Service. We spend 2 years of our lives taking care of the country”
Don’t serve the national service, then! You got the choice to leave Singapore and become a citizen of other country!
Instead of being jobless for 2 years after school, the nation saved you that embarrassment by enlisting you into the military, providing free training, food, clothing and even footwear!
And you got the bloody cheek to demand for priority over foreigners who came here to build the country’s economy? I pity whoever governs Singapore!
My Views
post #32 on January 4th, 2010 2.50 am
sure sir, but you forgot about young men who died while on the Tour of Duty. you surely forgot the commando dunking incident, the navy collision & the jet that crashed in Taiwan…
there is nothing wrong with having more privileges as a citizen, if got no difference, then that S’porean got no pride in his/her country. might as well migrant.
you should be ashamed you even said such things.
My Views
post #31 on January 4th, 2010 2.41 am
S’pore needs people who can stand on their own 2 legs, not people who look to other people (foreigners) for help. what a loser.
Myview,
Kindly do not speak with your ass and fart with your mouth. Thanks and you will be much appreciated
///Please get the facts right first! Who needs who? It is Singapore that needs the foreign talents to contribute to its economy.///
YOU get your facts right first!!!! Who say we need foreign talents? YOUR ah kong Lee Kuan Yew & Co???! So, who built Singapore when there is no foreign talents in the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s? There are nothing talent about the foreigners like those working in the IR becoming waiters, serve the cards, bell boy, lobby attendance etc. At best they are cheaper as compared to Singaporean that’s all. Well, if serving the NS is no big F@¥k to you, then maybe you should propose to YOUR ah kong and his team to get the foreign talents to serve the army mah!!! The Government have a choice too! So they can be done hearing our complaints on serving the NS and revoke all the tax incentive to Singapore men and get more revenue from the tax!!!
Tell us who you are, so that when there is a war, we can let you be shot by the enemy. Because we Singapore men don’t want to waste bullets protective idiots like you! Yah?
Quote from “Myview”
///And you got the bloody cheek to demand for priority over foreigners who came here to build the country’s economy? I pity whoever governs Singapore!///
Don’t worry, you don’t have to pity, they don’t even care you pity or not! They are very much well fed by their high pay to even care about your pity! Keep it to yourself and don’t 自做多情 (purely your wishful thinking)! How about learn fro
your sister JANET and write a complaint letter to Singapore Police Force about us? See they care or not? LOL
Wow “myview”
//Both integrated resorts have experienced more than enough problems, the last thing Singaporeans want to see is two white elephants standing on their shoreline without people operating them!///
You know they experience big problem ah? You share holder meh?! No wonder you afraid it become big White elephant! Nevermind, go to Jalan Bersar there to open a BIG SMALL gambling den, I am sure YOUR ah kong and his team will approve your license. Then wait for your India and bangrah foreign talent to play at your den. Who know? You might become a millionaire! If really no business, you can sell your backside over there since it is so near to the red light district! Yah?!
32) My Views on January 4th, 2010 2.50 am
Refer to (28) by [The Game].
“we should naturally have priority over foreigners: National Service. We spend 2 years of our lives taking care of the country”
Don’t serve the national service, then! You got the choice to leave Singapore and become a citizen of other country!
——————————–
That’s a great idea! It’s better to give up citizenship than fight war and give up my life for foreigners.
And you know what’s the best part? With a new citizenship I’ll come back to Sg as a foreign talent. Then I’ll take your job and your hdb flat. And you better give me those things with a smile and worship me, because I’ll be a foreign talent. That’s your attitude, right?
Unless, of course, you’re not Singaporean but foreigner. In that case, you better pray 10 times a day that PAP stays in power, because Singaporeans are losing their patience with you people.
Hi,
Dear TOC readers,
I am Sinkaporean who went oversea for further studies. I am working in UK and had two children which I had not register with the Sinkapore ambassy as they will automatically become UK citizen being a PR. It was a few years ago and never regret any of it. The government of LKY was no better then although there was few FT or FW then. Discrimination against Sinkaporean in one form or another had always been PAP’s policy. If anyone had a chance, vote with your feet and start life afresh abroad and for those who had to remain for lack of choice, use your vote wisely in the coming general election (GE). There may be situation where there is no opposition member standing against the incumber that’s a big problem.PAP had created a situation where it is dangerous to stand as a opposition member. Singaporean must find way to remove the PAP from office. I may fly back to cast my one humber vote if the time is right. Good luck.
Our forefathers and us pay taxes through all these years in order to build this nation and all the infrasturctures from roads to the clean toilets at the Changi
Airport.
Now that we are just beginning to savour a wee bit of our hard labour over the last 45 years or more,the elites uncaringly hand our jobs and now our “flats’ to the foreigners who seize the opportunity to “make even more money” at the ultimate expense of loyal citizens.
I don’t think PRs should be allowed to buy HDB
Our forefathers and us pay taxes through all these years in order to build this nation and all the infrasturctures from roads to the clean toilets at the Changi
Airport.
Now that we are just beginning to savour a wee bit of our hard labour over the last 45 years or more,the elites uncaringly hand our jobs and now our “flats’ to the foreigners who seize the opportunity to “make even more money” at the ultimate expense of loyal citizens.
I don’t think PRs should be allowed to buy HDB which is supposed to be low-cost housing for the lower-income citizens.They must first show sincerity about
wanting to make this place home,not just a sort of “casino” for them to ‘tikam”.
this freeing up of HDB to allow them to buy flats is irrational and unfair to citizens
especially the lesser among us who may get ‘crwoded’ out just like those who lost their jobs.
Foreigners not human meh? Now they are working here at low cost for Singapore, what’s so wrong about providing housing for these people? If they all go home, who is going to sweep our roads and clean public toilets, wash dishes, be waiters? Don’t be jealous of them and accuse them of stealing your jobs, because singaporeans are all too high-class to work in those jobs, singaporeans are all in air-con offices typing useless emails and printing stupid reports.
It is not as if they are given the houses for life and invited to live here, they are just merely contracted by the government to do the unsavoury jobs. I talked to the management of IR regarding their employment process, and you know what, they told me not that they don’t want to hire Singaporeans, but Singaporeans too picky to work, don’t like shift work, don’t want to stand all day, don’t like this and that, then what? Is IR going to open with 5 Singaproeans manning the whole place? Don’t be stupid, they tried their best, and not their fault that they have to get foreigners to fill jobs that high-class singaporeans don’t want.
These people work hard and get paid much less than what we, as citizens, do. Providing affordable housing for them is a humanitarian act. You want them to live in cardboard boxes because they can’t afford the expensive housing with their 800dol salary? Then who want to come over here if they earn 800 a month and have to pay half of it to rent?
I work with the CDC, and it’s very true that people will come crawling in the CDC asking government to give them subsidies and money cos they’re jobless, then when we introduce IR jobs or some kind of job to them, they refuse saying it’s too hard, too low paying, etc etc. Then what you want? Want Government to give you pocket money and pay your rent and electricity? at least take up a security job about $1000 a month is better than nothing right? Too many people trying to freeload off the kindness of the government.
If you show that you are trying, you are working and have genuine hardship, of course government will help. But if you just complaining in general that you are not getting good enough housing or priority, please, you sound like spoiled brats.
That’s the biggest problem the government have, dealing with a bunch of spoiled brats that they raised because they were too protective in the past. You guys are like the spoiled brats of rich parents who are jealous of their new adopted brother, and scream for priority because you were here first and you have blood ties.
Government make it not easy for foreigners to get PR ok, let me tell you that. I have been applying for my husband for years and still not approved. On one hand i complain that Gov is too strict on PR, on other hand u complain they give too many PRs. How to please everybody? It’s a system, not a human.
THings are much worse in many countries, be grateful you bunch of complaining, ungrateful, spoiled and ugly Singaporeans.
23) kiasu n kiasi on January 2nd, 2010 4.20 pm
If you are a football fan (EPL), see why the English teams have to buy foreigners? The English players are more expensive, not always better skilled and there are not enough good players.
Yet, if English players weren’t more expensive, etc (due to the minimum quota), I would think whole teams would be dominated by foreigners, and English probably won’t have made it to the World Cup. Just look at Singapore…so many foreigners, and we failed at the first hurdle.
@3) jaycomposer on January 5th, 2010 11.43 am
>> You want them to live in cardboard boxes because they can’t afford the expensive housing with their 800dol salary? Then who want to come over here if they earn 800 a month and have to pay half of it to rent?
…
at least take up a security job about $1000 a month is better than nothing right?
So taking $1000 per month and paying almost all in mortages, exorbitant prices, electricity tariffs, transportations is okay then.. Seriously, is $1000/mth sufficient to support a family?
The FWs are ok with this because they only need to support themselves here, while the savings that they remit back to their familes at home enables their families to lead a better life..
Question for you: Are you willing to work for $1000/mth?
To 32) My Views, “I pity whoever governs Singapore”.
Lim Swee Say says thank you for being so understanding ! but no worries, because he can feel happiness just by looking at his CPF statement and for an orgasm he only has to look at his bank account.
And LKY also convey his thanks to you, but no worries, because he is not doing any work, only make forecasts and he is still able to laugh when it’s wrong most of the time.
jaycomposer
post #43 on January 5th, 2010 11.43 am
how did you end up working with CDCs? you do not possess the right aptitude & atitude.
there must be a serious job mismatch, i implore you to do yourself a favour. do not work just for money, if you hate your job, please leave.
@ 43) jaycomposer on January 5th, 2010 11.43 am
well well well, it’s easy for you to say huh?
ok, let’s see, will you let your children work these jobs? will YOU be willing to undertake these jobs??????
in the first place, WHO was the party that degraded the status of workers of these jobs (sweepers, cleaners, etc), resulting in ppl shunning these jobs???
think of it another way, PAP must count its blessing that there are so many ppl giving feedback. this shows that deep down, we are still concerned abt this country of ours (even though we have recently just learned that we are not a country).
s’pore will be doomed if her citizens do not give feedback as this shows that they do not give a damn abt how this country goes forward (or backward?)
“I work with the CDC, and it’s very true that people will come crawling in the CDC asking government to give them subsidies and money cos they’re jobless, then when we introduce IR jobs or some kind of job to them, they refuse saying it’s too hard, too low paying, etc etc. Then what you want? Want Government to give you pocket money and pay your rent and electricity? at least take up a security job about $1000 a month is better than nothing right? Too many people trying to freeload off the kindness of the government.”
Wrong wrong wrong.
In the first place why are low-end jobs being created to meet the demands of an increasingly educated population? What exactly is going on, if not just paying lips service to Singaporean first when the jobs that are created for the IRs are not suited for the education status, nor meet the minimum pay required for a decent life – with roof over one’s head and yes, three meals at a hawker centre? That it becomes a convenient excuse to say “Ay, don’t say i neh give you job first ah, you reject one ah.”
SORRY – FEEDBACKS WILL BE ‘STONE-WALLED’
http://app.reach.gov.sg/reach/YourSay/YourDiscussionCorner/tabid/117/ptid/414/page/2147483647/threadid/2848/forumtype/posts/Default.aspx