This is possible due to our generous subsidy system. All new flats come with a generous market subsidy.
Mah Bow Tan, insisting that HDB flats are affordable.
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Why are there more singles nowadays?! Low birthrate?!
I am still single and going to 40 and don’t consider marriage because I don’t want to slog and pay a flat for 30 years and retire with nothing on hand.
Maybe earning 2.5K is alot 10 years ago but now I can’t even feed myself and my parent with this little money.
Affordability is not a question. Afford-ability to whom is an important question.
Houses are not cheap these days and yes it takes almost 167 months of not paying CPF, eating or buying clothes to save up such an amount. Have you ever wondered why?
Perhaps this motivates you to work some more, to keep on “striving for productivity” to ensure that you get more cash so as to pay off your house.
Now, isn’t that a sinister way to keep us working?! We have a dwindling work force after all.
Mockingbird
You forgot to mention that by keeping people tied down to their work mentally and physically (in short, keep them occupied), they also effectively take away the ability of people to think and challenge the current politic system.
This very much explained why Singaporean politic awareness in general are in such sorry state.
Red-man, “Mockingbird
You forgot to mention that by keeping people tied down to their work mentally and physically (in short, keep them occupied), they also effectively take away the ability of people to think and challenge the current politic system.
”
While what you suggested as the Cause is plausible, i would think that other than Work, these kinds of singaporeans also is able to find time for things like playing balls (eg. golf, pool, computer balls etc) . So, to say that they are mentally and physically tied up by Work and thus have no time for political awareness is not sufficient reason.
The Real Reason, i think, is Despite having some time for leisure, reading story books and watching movies, and reading MSM news, these lot believe that its no one’s responsibility to discuss about politics except politicians. The may hold the ‘its none of my business mentality’ or ‘can siam , siam’, ‘why so kaypoh’ , ‘as long as i am having ricebowl, i avoid thinking for the society’, ‘someone would do this for us. Let them be the fools to sacrifice for us’.
Singaporeans have not experienced why even a toilet cleaner needs to be aware how policies affect them and how they should participate this discussion as StakeHolders of this system.
What sngaporeans have not learnt is that without their Involvement, opposition cannot have the rally power to move things or change things. In politics, without People involvement, there is no politics.
Even in the Face of all the policies that many are unhappy with, Even with the job policies that affect them, singaporeans still cannot wake up. They have no Wisdom in this aspect and so, will remain Ignorant of their Action has a effect on policies. They appear to effectively have Accepted ALL policies.
They have sent a wrong message across. They are Responsible.
We have talents in Alternative parties able to do a decent job. But with the mentality that i have explained, the Alternative cannot progress. Its like an Alternative Car trying to run without the Fuel Power behind it.
As good a sports car can be , without the Addition of Fuel, it cannot Move Forward.
Bringing out socio-political issues is all great and nicely done by bloggers. But this only reaches the non-Apathetics. Yes, i have said these many times. But there is no solution to wake up the citizenry. People are still by and large Apathetic proved by candid video interviews.
I am sure, other country’s citizenry are not like that although in a non-perfect world, there are Apatheticos in All countries. The difference is the Extent.
So, there will be no Change except new citizens have added to the population. Guess where are they residing now? Which GRCs?
From what Jerome mentioned, i think what is missing is National Education in this aspect.
But i may be wrong.
What i find WIERD about singaporeans is this.
Each time the election result shows the Citizenry wants a substantial number of Opposition Leaders in Parliament to represent them.
For example, last election, 33.3% may want ideally 33.3% of seats to go to Opposition.
But despite these substantial votes, only 2 seats secured.
While the reason is lack of opposition candidates for this substantial size of population, these people are the ones who have not done anything about the status quo.
Why? Maybe its one of the reasons mentioned in this thread. i have no idea. No student have published and released into public domain any thesis on this mentality , afaik.
It is WIERD. To me.
The main purpose for high pricing HDB is to drain your CPF dry. So that when you retired don’t need to pay you a huge sum of money from your CPF OA account.
Based on the past, those that bought HDB flat cheap still can get a hugh sum of cash money drawn out from CPF when they retired.
I
f I not wrong, those age between 30 to 45 hold the largest population. If these group of people retired, it will drawn out the hugh amount of money from CPF.
So the best way is drain your CPF dried is through HDB flat so that not need to pay so hugh amount of money when these group of people retired.
If it is affordable, why I still need to take 30 years loan…..Old Lee is also another bastardly rich guy that look down upon the poor and those that cannot unafford it. Wants us all to be their money making slaves for life while they earn millions from everyone else.
Seems like there is no way to win any election against MBT? sigh…..
Mah B T should make his way to East Coast Park, put his head inside the water and spurt his nonsense to all the fishes there. I think they will believe him.
Hobbit Mah lives in a bungalow with swimming pool at Holland area which is probably fully paid up with his MILLION DOLLARS salary. How do you expect clowns like him to understand the folks on the ground that have to service a 30yr loan for a small measly flat and with nothing left for retirement ? This hobbit must go as otherwise there will be more and exponential sufferings for all.
Looking at that pic just makes me wana puke. The hand gesture probably says something like ” I’m gonna squeeze all of you dry so that I can fatten the coffers for my master to make more foolish investment”
With more jobs even from government agencies being offered directly to foreigners, sleeping in the void decks, parks, beaches, bus shelters etc will also become expensive. :(
Position of Asst Director / Associate, Insurance offered to foreigners by Monetary Authority of Singapore
http://job-search.jobstreet.com.sg/singapore/job-opening.php?location=70000&nationality=170&job-source=1&src=22
Fellow Singaporeans, is this the kind of life you want to go through ? The decision is yours. :(
Singaporeans used to be almost completely satisfied with just having a ‘roof over their heads’; politics was business for the higher rung-ers. Right now, many are starting to traverse beyond that point: amongst other things such as hoping for better employment opportunities, they wish for more transparency and accountability from their ‘thoughtful custodians’ – why this is so is for separate discussion.
So, if citizens nowadays want more than such roofs, yet aren’t able to get any, Mr. Mah (and the ruling party) really does have a lot to sweat for. Except he doesn’t have to…
…’cos he got aircon mah.
And if that does facilitate his thought processes, it’s indeed a “necessity”.
The argument that HDB (or perhaps more accurately, the PAP) uses is that benchmarked against the rest of the world, the average Singapore spends about 1/3 of his/her income on rent, which is similar to most of the developed nations. However, is this fair? Is this really comparing apples to apples, oranges to oranges? Most other developed nations have far better developed social welfare systems that kick in once wages start declining upon retirement. Hence citizens of these nations need not save as much in preparation for retirement, as compared to Singaporeans. This is something that simply cannot be refuted. And frankly, if corruption measures can’t be applied across different countries as our esteemed leaders suggested, then why should housing prices be?
Out you go lah…
80% of us stay in Public Housing….Public Housing in other countries means cheap affordable houses, not houses that cost USD 100++ to USD 300 and it expires >.> Ask my amercia friends, and they puke at our gov
I really hate the term “market subsidy”. HDB profit from us yet still tell us they are doing us a favour by giving us “market subsidy”, just because we make them earn lesser than the market!
Stop using this disgusting term and fool people into thinking the govt is paying for their new HDB when HDB is actually profitting by selling above cost price!
generous? compared to which 1st world developed country? 400k-500k for a 4rm-5rm at a 99 yr lease which we know by 50 yrs, most will be tear down?
In Hongkong, they called most of their flats rental flats and their home ownership flats have discount of 30 to 40%. Compared to our so housing prices and discount…it is peanuts.
We are all renting our flats, that is a flat, pls do not fool everyone by telling them we own the flats when we have a lease. To be fair, make ur private property have a lease of 99 years too.
I got a question.
Which singaporean knows when (last 20 years) has MBT ever said HDB is unaffordable?
I mean this is a technical question – do you know or not.
Which of the 84 is living in a flat now?
The Government could have sold its HDB flats without subsidies. If it had sold all its flats at full market rates, Singaporeans would end up having to pay much higher prices.
My point is : be grateful, you owned a quality flat that appreciates in value. A couple of days ago, someone in Marine Parade was selling his HDB flat for $990,000 – he would be a millionaire after the transaction! Which other governments in this world could make you a millionaire? Name me one, apart from Singapore’s PAP!
@ My Views
“A couple of days ago, someone in Marine Parade was selling his HDB flat for $990,000 – he would be a millionaire after the transaction! Which other governments in this world could make you a millionaire?”
Erm, after the millionaire sold his flat, he probably got to buy another apartment to stay (unless he went back to stay with his parents). Like that, still have million in pocket?
“The Government could have sold its HDB flats without subsidies. If it had sold all its flats at full market rates, Singaporeans would end up having to pay much higher prices.”
I bet that is exactly the mentality of all PAP ministers!
Oi!!! the government includes ELECTED officials whose duty is to look after people. not to run commercial BUSINESS!
that is the problem when government and profit-oriented business got too cosy with each other. the government becomes misguided and loses its focus to serve the people.
Reform Party is right – we got to decouple the incentuous link between government and business!
All BS. Meaning of affordable is being stretched beyond belief. Affordable to them for sure. They can buy quite a few in a year.
“The Government could have sold its HDB flats without subsidies. If it had sold all its flats at full market rates, Singaporeans would end up having to pay much higher prices.”
Dear Hobbit, may I ask on what context will the govt considering selling flats without subsidies? Is it when it loose more votes? Are you trying to use this subsidies issue as a threat to corner ppl to vote for u ?
//Hobbit
I disagree. How else would the govt be able to charge an exorbitant price for land and use hdb resale pricing to drive up land pricing?
Also, the experience in Jurong West Boon Lay proves our point: pricing in HDB flats (new ones) were reduced drastically when there was a surplus in flats.
Subsequently, when the surplus of these flats were depleted, pricing in HDB flat went up.
Also, where is the reserve of flats you are talking about now?
Policies About Properties,
Perhaps Are Predatory.
Poverty Amongst Populace,
Party Amidst Palaces.
Prices Astounding ‘Peasants’
Prizes Amusing Princes
The gahmen have forgotten that we do not earn their kind of salary
We do no lived in houses with Gurhkas standing outside, we do no lived in landed properties and we have something called money to worry about.
MBT should do seppuku for thinking that singapore citizens can pay their entire life on housings
It is very sad that the Minister for National Development can choose to gloss over this miserable state of affairs. It is due to his carelessness and lack of long-term planning (the PAP prides itself on being able to plan ahead of the demand curve) that contributes directly to his housing shortage. With the explosion of PRs and foreign workers in Singapore, housing supply has not kept up. As mentioned above, it used to take about 15 years to be able to pay off an HDB loan of 18,000, with a monthly income of $1,200. That is about 15 months of salary. Fast forward to today, and you will notice with a salary of say, $3,000, a 4-room HDb flat can easily cost $300,000. Do the math and you will find that your pigeon hole is 100x your monthly salary. With financing factored in, it is no wonder that for some, a 30 year mortgage is not even long enough to stretch your monthly housnig loans to an affordable level. Add in all the bills and ever rising cost of living, coupled with depressed wages due to the massive influx of foreign workers, we are really hit on all fronts. After paying for our house, what do we have left in our CPF? Not alot. Retirement in Singapore? Now thats foolish thinking.
Consider this:
1. If a country is so open to influx that the citizens have to deal with it directly the impact, that if you not happy and leave, there is room for more influx, and the capable ones could migrate easier than those less capable, what becomes of the Soul of the nation?
A bit late for the comment. Not sure if anyone discussed the Available Housing Withdrawal Limit (AHWL) which is 120% of the Valuation Limit (VL). I did a calculation years back and 19+ years was when the VL kicks in, as there was an interest component to the max 80% loan then – worse now with 90% loans. From year 20, there was a need to use cash for the balance of the loan. I’m not sure how 30 year loans have been used as a bench mark now, when the use of CPF is insifficient to service the life of the loan due to these imposed limits.
From an affordability viewpoint, a maximum of 20 years for housing loans must be used in Singapore. Globally, a 5-7 years annual combined income has been cited in a few articles before for housing affordability. i.e. if the household income is $100k a year, one should consider a property between $500k-700k.
to EastEndBoy,
Not it is not late at all. And thanks for your very refreshing and comprehensive analysis. I will definitely go check out the AHWL in greater details. Siah…if only our MILLION DOLLARS HOBBIT can think like you. Cheers mate.
@ Watcher
My point is : be grateful, you owned a quality flat that appreciates in value. A couple of days ago, someone in Marine Parade was selling his HDB flat for $990,000 – he would be a millionaire after the transaction! Which other governments in this world could make you a millionaire? Name me one, apart from Singapore’s PAP!
I can name u so many governments in the world, that allows you to sell your apartments for real millons and not 900k, certainly not 900k minus what you pay for, certainly not for 99 year rent, and it is freehold hehe.
Can you please name me one government in the world, that requires you to buy a Public Subsiby Home for 1 million and it is for only 99 years or less? I can name you , Uniquely Singapore hoho.
I cannot understand how our Minister for National Development can make the comment that PRs do not have a big impact on price because only 20% of resale transactions are PR transactions.
Anyone who has taken a basic course in microeconomics will know about demand and supply curves. First, the MARGINAL demand determines the final prices. So the last 1% or the last 1 person bidding for the goods determines the prices. Given that the supply is relatively inelastic (people are unable to move homes unless they already have another one to move to, and it takes years to build new flats), the smallest increase in demand results in a high increase in prices.
What it means is that a large number of Singaporeans (20% of resale transactions) are denied resale homes at lower prices.
I really find it terrible that our ministers can make such comments.
Joesph
You must understand, some ministers only are good at showing off their fashionable spectacles frames at different locations and events that all.
They don’t do the planning, its the people under them who runs the job for them. All they do is to read reports and sign.
Hi Joseph Teo
Absolutely agree on on the marginal demand and supply inelasticity which determines the final price. If history is anything to learn from, back in the 1970s’ a 7% mismatch in demand and supply resulted in a 4x increase in crude oil price. (As there was no substitute in the short-medium term) If we believe that demand for a roof over one’s head is relatively inelastic as well, imagine what mismatched supply would do. If this were true for housing in Singapore as well, I believe a 3-5% mismatch would double pricing.
Hi bamboo_guy,
Do share after checking as my info is pretty dated. But I think the principle holds true even for today.
M inister
A ddresses
H ousing
B ureaucracy
O nly
W ith
T reacherous
A nalogy,
N aivety!
Dear Mr. Mah,
Is there another country where the citizens are required to service a 30 years’ loan in order to own a 99 yrs leasehold FLAT ? If the answer is yes, then pls elaborate and you’ll probably have the vote of my toe. If the answer is NO, then GOOD LUCK TO U.
next time in singapore, we will work for life to own houses.
thanks to you mr mah.this is wat we are getting being
singapore citizens.pls lah not everybody is earning as much as you.
how about ppl with only 1000plus salary.pay only decreases wat abt
times when ppl get retrenched.damn it man
With the introduction of the new HDB rules , demand will drop gradually. Resale price will drop. The distinction between PR and SC is also more distinct. However, it does not help people who already paid skyhigh COVs in the last 1 year.
Mah says there is no evidence to prove PRs pushed up HDB flat prices. Then can he tell us what pushed up HDB flat prices ? My answer to him, using his logic, is there is also no evidence that that PRs did not push up HDB flat prices……
The very fact that HDb has now ‘tweaked’ … suffices as evidence that it is mess and a mess with repurcussions that affect many Singaporeans.
I do not think that Singaporeans as a whole are against foreigners. Having said that it is the
flagrant disregard of its impact(s) and inept ways of simply allowing PR/citisenship so very EASILY that has caused such volatility. Moreover, the lack of transparency/accountability has casts doubts as to the motives for importing foreigners in. Now it has got out of hand and it seems kind of late to make amends as the damage has already set in. Of course, one should not overlook the lost of jobs or rather the ignominy of Singaporeans having to compete for jobs with so-called talents. To add to injury also ’bear” with foreigners. Wow, so much for being Singaporean and the jaded phrase ”Singaporeans come first” seems like all empty
It is indeed a wake up call to Singapoerans to understand and question the ways of the present govt and its policies.
Only those at IMH believe him - just let him blahs blahs blahs as much as he wants to release all his accumulated head wind : fear its intensity going to bonker him liao ……
hahaa, MBT will appear on the hot seat in Talking Point this sunday 10:15pm.
forgot the e-mail addy that was flashed on TV along with the trailer though. but it does say e-mail your questions to (Talking Point’s e-mail)…. iirc.
^.^
We Singaporeans ‘hear and understand’ that our PAP government starting to ’hear and understand’ our feelings and problems on the ground.
New favourite phrase by our Ministers..’Hear & Understand…’
The phrase so useful hor…
hi Really?,
maybe its because there are so many Fs/FTs/PRs & newly minted citizens? must wayang abit, the show will not last long, maybe after this GE all ‘back to norm’!! hahaa…
with elections not too far away maybe now MBT does feel alittle insecure? also, there was once (iirc) our MM Lee hinted that if MBT is to lose to opposition, MM wun bet an eyelid, so is seen to be doing something in hope his status quo remain unchanged?
Affordable la, only for the rich… as for u and me…. just tahan, can rent than rent… can not rent sleep voiddeck la… make it on NEWSPAPER than our BOSS paiseh than will get pple to help u MAH!
The root cause is the high new HDB flat prices ( the huge profits that they earned ) that drive folks to resales flats, thsi is worsened by fcash-rich oreigners netering to market ( who also enjoy many subsidies and fee discounts ).
Curbing private lands and development fees hike is a smoke screen to divert attention to HDB’s failed practices
TO HIM IS AFFORDABLE
BUT TO US CITIZEN’S OF SG IS NOT LOL!!!!
SAY WILL HELP US BUT IN THE END ALL JUST TALK TALK ONLY & NEVER DO ANYTHING AT ALL,JUST OWN A LITTLE BIT HDB SOME MONEY SAY WANA TAKE BACK THE FLAT,
OWE TOWN COUNCILS A LIITLE SEND US A LAWYER LETTER!!! PUB NEVER PAY SAY WANA CUT OUR SUPPLY THIS THAT!!!!
WE WORK & WORK & WORK LIKE MAD,CRAZY & SLOG LIKE A COW!!!!
IN THE END JUST A BILL AT THE END OF THE MONTH EVERYTHING IS IN THEIR’S POCKET!!!!!! (NOT OURS)
AT LAST WE EARN FOR THEM TO SPEND!!!!
USE OUR $$$$$$$$$$$$ TO BUILD CASINO,MAKING NEW MRT TRACKS
BLAH BLAH BLAH!!!!!! ALL IS OUR HARD EARN $$$$$$!!!!!
SG GOVERMENT IS WORSE THAN A LOAN SHARK!!!!!
WHAT A SHAME!!!!! WHAT A PITY!!!!! CLAIMING THEY ARE THE LEGAL ONE!!!!
IT IS SO TIRED TO BE A SINGAPOREAN!!!!!
VERY UNFAIR!!!!!
ok dont talk…….. who want to vote against? no need to put up your hands……