The Online Citizen asks students from the National University of Singapore Law faculty if they support the mandatory death penalty for drug trafficking.
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There are always two camps of thought I suppose.
What is wrong with the 2nd guy in the video? He reminds me of the Men In Black the alien cockroach who disguised himself in human skin and had weird body movements and speech irregularities.
He’s a close school friend of mine. He has MS and I really admire him for his determination – despite his physical limitations, he scored perfect grades and made it into law school. Please think twice before making unkind comments like that in future.
Great job, seems like theres more of those who are in between in this education tier, yes for murder, no for drugs.
and at least they know whats mandatory as compared to the bugis interviewees, lol.
but i still get the feeling of “it doesn’t concern me, why should i bother” stance from most of them..
Have you seen the effects of drug taking on people and their families? I have. I think that everyone in the supply chain should be hanged. They are the cause of unimaginable long-term misery to the addicts and their families. And they KNOW it, yet continue to sell it. If I was the one who wrote the law governing drug traffickers, I wouldn’t even have the minimum weight cap. I’d just hang them all. Why should my tax dollars go towards the upkeep of these evil people in jails when my money could help old people living in one-room flats?
To anonymous – That doesn’t look like a case of MS to me. Looks more like some kinda attitude problem.
@money and power: it’s no attitude problem. stop it already.
Well, my mistake then if that is the case or probably I have seen worse cases of MS than the 2nd person in the video.
money and power – Why don’t you just apologise? Sounds like you are the one with an attitude.
Think about it, if there is no death penalty, we will be using our tax payers money to support their life while they stay in jail for so many years. Isn’t drugs a form of murder?
@tiger I have already admitted my mistake as I have seen worse cases of MS and was probably too quick to judge. I also agree with your take on the mandatory death penalty in Singapore. People do not realize the harmful effects of drugs. I have seen drugs ruin the lives of family and friends in Singapore. By imposing the death sentence on drug trafficking, it reduces drug-related problems within our country. Those who want to commit these offences, will think long and hard. People will argue the weight of drugs is merely 2-3 grams for Class A drugs. Do you even want such drugs in our neighbourhoods? Wait, let me rephrase. Do you want such people in our country? Hell no, I say. Don’t bring in the issue of people being made scapegoats to traffick drugs. Everyone has a choice in life. No one can make you do anything against your own free will.
If these people want to run the risk of drug trafficking, they should be made to pay for the consequences, no matter how small the amount of drugs is carried on that individual. In my opinion, the person who is trafficking drugs into the country is EQUALLY guilty as someone who commits murder. That is why people who consume drugs are sent to DRC for rehab and those who traffick are hanged till death.
I opine :
1. Manslaughter : eg. car hits man, man dead. several injured. DEATH Penalty : YES.
2. Traitor to Citizens : eg. Sabotage the majority citizens because of Self Interest = mandatory circum…..
3. Betrayal of Trust of citizens : can consider.
4. Dishonesty to Citizens : can consider.
This video is even better content than the Change Alley one . You know, that one where a rather big size man opined that he “don’t really care” and that gal who support death penalty without knowing why she said what she said since “i don’t think i will be affected…”
Excellent Effort! Better than MSM, imho. Very human, very real, very candid, very uncensored. in short, very honest.
Idea for next video : Ask those studying property related courses the HDB costings. Ask the top student if he or she knows. wahahahaha!
nice interview.
law is interesting to learn.
good job toc.
never watch this type of things on national tv before.
really eye opening.
if i can study law and become a lawyer i hope to represent political prisoners as they are very pitiful.
tiger “Think about it, if there is no death penalty, we will be using our tax payers money to support their life while they stay in jail for so many years. Isn’t drugs a form of murder?”
What about the syndicates, the mafias and the drug lords? What are we doing as a democratic country to curtail or eradicate such illegal, sinister ciminal activities locally and globally.
All we hear are incidents about individuals being hauled up for drugs trafficking, and the mandotary death sentence imposed after a trial. Some of whom are young and gulible and can be rehabilitated if they are remorseful.
Go after the big players of the criminal world. Spare the pawns in their games.
The thing is that those who are caught, convicted and sentenced to death thanks to this mandatory death penalty are the small fry who are being drug mules because of desperation. They are not the actual kingpins of the drug ring, and when wiped off the face of the earth there will be plenty more to replace them. By putting them to death intead of helping them we are trying to find the quickest and easiest way out, and simply treating a symptom. Although the death penalty does act as a deterrent it is not an effective enough one to really prevent drug trafficking, or to take down the real bigwigs, as uruachim said.
Instead, we should find ways to really make people aware of drugs and their effects on society, as well as to try to help people out in times of need so that they do not get desperate enough to agree to carry drugs just for the sake of a couple thousand dollars.
Money and power – you from SMU or something?
you guys should watch the video by sg american school students, also on TOC.
Singapore is again Number 1!
power and money.. no.. I graduated from a foreign university
Interesting point of view by Law Students on the mandatory death penalty: Most disagree on the penalty for Drugs Trafficking, Alomost all agreed its justifiable for Murder.
Hmm…No personal comments abt whether this penalty is justifiable on murder cases (i have mixed emotions abt murder and death sentence), but what if new evidences are later found that the ‘murderer’ is actually… being wrongly accused of murdering another (aft the person has been hanged), what then?
according to a statistic i read yrs ago, it is actually ‘cheaper’ to put a person under life sentence than putting a person to death. i forgotten the link, anyone can provide?
but what if new evidences are later found that the ‘murderer’ is actually… being wrongly accused of murdering another (aft the person has been hanged), what then?
its OK, we can afford so long as any of these accused are not related to anyone within the elites members or party, the rest of you are just digits to them, lost a dozen, just replenish with new citizens, whats the problem.
What the law-intellectuals impressed me was :
1. they said something like the judge cannot use his power / wisdom to set a lower penalty depending on the case and situation that the crime was committed as long as the verdict is guilty. There is no discretion, in this aspect, according to them.
Manslaugter : Aye.
Drugs , few grams : Nay.
Thats Mae, Hosei.
@money and power
I understand what you are saying about the harm that comes from drugs and how it affects victims and their families, and that therefore there should be a strong sentence to show that we don’t want such things in our country. However, as was mentioned in one of the interviews, with the law as it is now possession often carries the presumption of trafficking, and therefore a drug addict might not even have the chance of being sent to rehab, he might be put to death simply because he was caught with drugs on him, and automatically thought to be trafficking. If this happens it is really not helping society at all, as we are merely condemning to death people who actually need to help.
If at the very least the “mandatory” requirement of the act was removed there might be more of a chance for judges to make their own decisions about the appropriate punishment, making sure it fits the crime.
@kixes
From what I understand from the word “trafficking”, it has to do with trading, dealing, buying or selling. If a drug addict is in possession of those controlled drugs, he/she shall be presumed to possess them for the purpose of drug trafficking unless proven otherwise.
And usually, drug addicts don’t sell/trade the drugs, they consume the drugs so perhaps the law in Singapore takes a discretion in those cases. I believe an invididual will have to be proven guilty of selling/trading the drugs for the gain of profit, then only the mandatory death penalty will apply. I’m not a lawyer, but I guess this is how I would intepret the Misuse of Drugs Act.
Any lawyers out there feel free to correct me if I’m wrong. Thank you.
How come manslaughter also got several types of penalty depending on the circumstances but not so for possesion of drugs leh? 30mg cocaine or something like that = death? no cham siong wan meh?
Can lawyers comment on this? You so intellect wor. stedi lah.
@zj
according to a statistic i read yrs ago, it is actually ‘cheaper’ to put a person under life sentence than putting a person to death. i forgotten the link, anyone can provide?
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I cannot be sure what information you’ve read, but I believe that the statistics might be American because I’ve read roughly the same thing.
The reason it costs more to put someone to death than imposing the life sentence in the USA is because the convict spends a very long time (we’re talking decades) on death row and appeals his sentence over and over again. The legal costs of the State hearing and defending against the appeals is extremely high. Perhaps the convicts do not fight so hard if it’s a life sentence.
This situation does not exist in Singapore. AFAIK, the legal procedure for a capital offence is the same as that for a life imprisonment offence. One trial in the High Court and one appeal in the Court of Appeal. And that’s the end of it, any convict only goes through the courts once and hangs pretty quickly after everything (including clemency) fails. As such, I think it’s highly probable that the death penalty would be cheaper than life imprisonment in Singapore because our legal process is more conclusive and efficient.
I do not quite understand why the emphasis is placed on the views of the law undergraduates regarding the mandatory death penalty. Once the case has been taken up, the laywer will need to, like it or not, pursue the interests of their clients to the fullest extent in the courtroom. So any person who advocates against the mandatory death penalty in this video may jolly well be the DPP standing in the courtroom in say 10 years time, finding means and ways to convince the judge that the crime committed is so heinous that the accused should be shown his way to the gallows. It wouldn’t be at least another 20 or 30 years that the rare few will be selected to head the judicary with prominent authority to effect the change in law, if this is still on his agenda.
Social pressure to reflect the change in the public expectations is a more effective strategy, as law can and will evolve.
Hey TOC, these NUS law students sound like bombastic wor.
Maybe can ask them to comment just as bombastically about the incoming U.S. Ambassador to Singapore Mr Daniel Adelman’s statement he told the U.S. Senate recently that “…he is aware of the fact that Singapore is not a democracy …”
So, intellectuals, what say you? You are our future pillar you know?
TOC, how about an interview with singapore youths, post-65′ers and civil servants regarding this comment?
paiseh, some corrections to make about my comments above.
The words i quoted was in fact from sgforums and not from the ambassador.
What the ambassador said was actually, when asked :
“What is your view in terms of whether and how the United States should engage Singapore on these other issues?”
Ambassador : “My view is the United States must engage Singapore on these issues. You identified the area where, quite candidly, Singapore needs the most improvement if it were to live up to the ambitions Americans have for democracy. Make no mistake, currently Singapore is not a multi-party democracy, and I intend, if confirmed, to use public diplomacy to work towards greater press freedoms, greater freedom of assembly and ultimately, more political space for opposition parties in Singapore to strengthen Singapore into a multi-party democracy.”
I all the while thought that the alternative mindset people are alleging without basis. But now, the American Ambassador has also shared similar view about singapore.
I feel ashamed.
@ Marcus Chng
It is true that the DPP himself may be against the mandatory death penalty. But by arguing strongly for it to be applied, he is not being immoral or inconsistent with his stand. This is because he’ll be playing only one role in the whole scheme of things.
The defendant will be arguing against the merits and constitutionality of the statute, and then the judge will evaluate both sides’ argument. If the judge strikes down the mandatory death penalty as being unconstitutional, it is best that he does so consequent to the DPP’s strong arguments in favour of it. That way, the quality of the decision will be better.
If one reads history, it would be a surprise !
Remember the Opium Wars ?
The British Empire was the major drug dealers, followed by the French and the Americans !
Well done TOC. Another impartially-conducted set of interviews that really provokes a few thoughts.
a) Not many people actually know the limits even law students. Many will need to refer to the act, and don’t expect laymen to know either. In actual drug trafficking cases, that could itself make it difficult to identify a drug abuser vs a trafficker. It does drive home the message that the limits itself are artificial.
b) As a suggestion, the TOC should compile the interview findings and publish a wip paper on this. This can form a very useful survey to identify what are Singaporeans’ perspectives on the issue from the ground. It would be interesting to see lawyer’s personal opinions & perspectives as well eg law society president etc. A few lawyers (beyond Messrs Ravi) do conduct prosecution & defenses in such cases (names can be found from reported law cases). The TOC can perhaps write to Amnesty/HRW to obtain funds to conduct such research and send out surveys. Orgs like amnesty/hrw might not get a response whereas TOC may.
Money and power,
The law has a presumption clause which says that if a certain drugs is found on the person, and it is beyond the prescribed limit, he is presumed to be trafficking. And if this is presumed, then it is up to the accused to prove otherwise.
In other words, once he is presumed to be trafficking, he is also presumed to be guilty.
I think what sg seriously needs now are cultivation of public policy think-tanks who are absolutely non-partisan. If we have more of these earlier, they could have raised and debated the issues like the oral sex law thingie and this thingie long ago. These are all highly debatable issues.
Most of the law students are logical and are in consensus of the MDP for major crimes like murder. It’s heartfelt to see thinking minds. Like what they said, if it’s mandatory, basically you are not allowing the judges to exercise any wisdom and discretion. Might as well use robots. Guilty->>death. Simple. Save taxpayer’s money on having judges for such cases.
God made man and gave him a heart and mind. What happened ?
Death penalty must be abolished for Drug trafficking. Vui Kong needs, counselling, rehablitation and integration. The world of Science and Medicine knows and agrees that Opium and Cocaine are used for medical purpose and must be sustained. The plants will be there. It is the Drug Barons with high office connections around the world who are in control and run their trade ruthlessly and mercilessly.. Vui Kong is too young to know the dangers. He faced hardship and unwittingly got caught in a web of circumstance. Drug trafficking and abuse will not be wiped off from the face of this earth including Singapore. Free Vui Kong Since mid1970s the same tune has been played. Do not not cheat yourselves. The Drug Barons and the drugs trade will be around for a long, long time. Morphine is widely used in war and for cancer patients. Let the poor young man live. His death will not change or stop opium and heroin growth and refining nearSingapore’s friendly neighbours, Thailand and Myanmar (Golden Triangle)and Laos.Look at the big picture please. I am no scholar nor a preacher. I am for Peace N Love