Leong Sze Hian
I refer to the article “Singapore envies Kiwi lifestyle” (New Zealand Herald, Feb 9).
It states that
“The bait was better working hours, cheaper cars and housing – and in three weeks thousands from Singapore have registered their interest in living in New Zealand.
An Immigration New Zealand pilot project aimed at attracting Singaporean migrants has resulted in over 1000 registrations each week since it was launched last month, with 3565 potential immigrants having registered their interest in just three weeks”.
According to another article “Survey finds that workers in Singapore put in longest hours” (The China Post, Jan 12),
“Singapore’s workers continue to lead the pack when it comes to the number of hours they put in at work, according to a report by the International Labor Organization (ILO). The report puts them at the top of 13 economies in the group’s Global Wages Report for 2008-09, surpassing even the notoriously hardworking Japanese and Taiwanese”.
Singaporeans are among the hardest workers in the world, but do not have enough, upon retirement, to live in comfort in their home country. Is there any wonder why they should choose to migrate to other places that are much more affordable?
Cars for example, are so expensive in Singapore that a car owner may end up with $2 million less in retirement. This is calculated from an estimated cost of $1,000 monthly compounded at 6 per cent over 40 years.
To explain the poverty of retired Singaporeans, we’d have to explore the possible link between the 2 largest entities that effectively ‘lock up’ the wages of Singaporeans – HDB and CPF.
Increasing flat prices decrease the amount of CPF upon retirement
In line with the government’s policy of letting Singaporeans use their flats for asset enhancement, many Singaporeans have bought their flat, using the bulk of their CPF in a typical 30-year mortgage, in hope that the continued increase in property prices would serve as a boon during retirement.
By pricing flats under ‘market subsidy’ pricing, asset ‘enhancement’ schemes such as upgrading inevitably become a burden to Singaporeans who have no choice but to use even more of the CPF for their upgraded HDB flat. In addition to that, HDB has never disclosed the cost of building flats. Thus, flat pricing, and the amount of CPF ‘locked’ in it, is really at the whim of property speculation.
With 80 per cent of the population living in public housing, and with a bulk of a typical homeowner’s CPF savings ‘locked’ by the flat, social security for the average Singaporean is contingent on HDB policies. When you can’t pay your mortgage, you may lose your home and maybe your life CPF savings too.
Consequently, with the bulk of their CPF ‘locked’ in unliquidated assets, many Singaporeans end up with very little CPF when they retire.
CPF gets transferred out of Singaporeans’ hands, into HDB’s pockets
When the HDB sends a notice of Compulsory Acquisition to flat owners, 90 per cent of the flat’s valuation is used to offset the loan arrears; HDB makes a profit of 10 per cent of the valuation. While it is understandable that HDB as a statutory board has to run on a sustainable business model, it seems counterintuitive that a public housing board should profit from the destitution of its citizens.
For example, flat owners in addition to losing 10 per cent of their flat valuation to HDB, are only given one month to vacate their flats. Why does the HDB not give them a bit more time to find alternative accommodation?
As a public housing authority with the mission to provide affordable housing for Singaporeans, is the HDB not in a sense, in breach of its fiduciary duty, in this arbitrary practice of ‘pinching’ 10 per cent of the valuation?
Are there any public housing authorities in the world that takes an additional 10 per cent profit on foreclosure?
Parliamentarians may like to raise this issue with a view to refunding the ‘pinched’ valuation to all past foreclosed flat owners.
Why it’s almost impossible to get enough cash upon retirement
Effective last year, if you sell your HDB flat after age 55 to downgrade to a smaller flat and to monetise your flat for retirement, any CPF utilised plus accrued interest has to be returned to the CPF account if the CPF Minimum Sum (MS) has not been met.
With the current MS at $117,000, what this policy change means is that this sum cannot be used to purchase the smaller flat downgrade.
Why are we making it harder for Singaporeans to downgrade to monetise their flat for retirement?
Many Singaporeans subscribed to the call for asset enhancement by purchasing HDB flats – only to be hit by the policy change now, which in effect, may result in their inability to cash out of their “enhanced” HDB asset.
The CPF Minimun Sum (MS) was raised from July 1, 2009, for those aged 55 years, to $117,000, up from $106,000. This is an increase of 10.4 per cent, much more than the inflation rate for the previous year, which was 6.5 per cent. How can the increase in MS be “an adjustment for inflation, is to ensure that Singaporeans set aside sufficient savings for their retirement?”
Similarly, the MS was increased by 6.4 per cent in July 2008, from $99,600 to $106,000, when inflation was only 2.1 per cent in 2007.
With the current recession, some of those reaching age 55, may have lost their jobs or failed in their businesses, and thus a large increase in the MS, may cause some financial stress to them. As last year’s increase is the highest in the history of the MS scheme, at its current quantum of increase, does it mean that by 2013, the MS may be about $161,000 ($117,000 now plus $11,000 increase for 4 years)?
Can anyone afford to retire in Singapore in future?
The Longevity Insurance Committee’s (LIC) CPF Life report last year only projected a MS of $134,000 in 2013 (chapter 4). Adding the projected Medisave Required Amount (MRA) of $36,000 in 2013, does it mean that those reaching age 55 may only be able to withdraw $5,000, if they have less than $197,000 (MS $161,000 plus MRA $36,000) in their CPF? How many Singaporeans will have more than $197,000 in their CPF in 2013?
The answer can be found in the LIC report: only 60 per cent are projected to have at least $67,000 in their CPF in 2013.
At the current rate of increase of $15,500 per year ($11,000 MS + $4,500 MRA), will the combined MS and MRA be $352,000 and $507,000 in 2023 and 2033 respectively?
In conclusion, is it any wonder why so many Singaporeans may be thinking about migrating to New Zealand?
Photos courtesy of Wilfed Wong
“When it comes to the election, you KNOW they will win.”
>> The burma junta also “win”. It’s the process of “winning” that matters. In my opinion, PAP brought themselves down.
But no one dares to do something.
>> I bet to differ. Going into a fight whereby the bully has dogs and guns waiting for you is “unwise”. Call me a coward if you wish… at least I am not
reckless”.
Who is to listen to you? Honestly speaking, do you vote the PAP out yourselves?
>> Many in fact voted against PAP in the last election. You may want to check against that. I believe there will be more local (not immigrants) doing the same for this coming election.
“You guys are too passive and let them push you around.”
>> You got better suggestions?
“Stand up for what you believe in and offer solutions! Be brave.”
>> I second that.
“They can’t do anything to you if you state facts and figures.”
>> I beg to differ.
“The problem with you guys is that you are all too lazy to do research and being out the solid hard facts.”
>> I beg to differ.
“The PAP fight with facts and they look more credible”
>> I beg to differ. They fight to hold on to “power” in my opinion, and recently, at the expense of the general populace.
“But if you do your homework and show why the PAP is making life difficult for the common citizen, you will gain trust in your fellow men.”
>> I have faith with my fellow countrymen and I believe they knows what’s going on, in fact, most of my friends (not just close ones) knows what’s going on in this country. Nonetheless, there’s no point speculating… like you said, we will see the “action” in this coming election.
@T A Balasingam
I’m still trying to figure out where you actually stand in the midst of these discussions. Are you pro PAP or just simply anti immigration?? Or are you simply ignorant of the travesties of LKY? Any negative comment made by LKY will never be printed or published by the local media (to address an earlier issue) That’s pretty damn obvious, so are you saying that LKY is not able to make derogatory statements at all? And if so, and that it were to be reported by the foreign media or by an opposition politician – then it must be untrue or libelous… You are beginning to sound like a government mouthpiece. Have you read Francis Seow’s ‘To catch a tartar”? Obviously not…
And aren’t you the perfect obedient Singaporean. A Mr. T.A. Balasingam that sends his kids to the bests schools and makes sure his kids learn Mandarin…. A perfect model citizen. One that LKY has been breeding over the years. The pre 65 generation that just happens to be the primary group during LKY’s eugenics experimentation period.
Where do you stand Mr. T A Balasingam? Which side of the political divide do you reside? Are you pro PAP and here to counter the negative views against them? Or are you here to just rant?
just curious…..?//b.
I am a die-hard Singaporean. I am not a sycophantic PAP supporter, a Workers Party supporter, a Dr Chee Soon Juan lackey and for that matter a boot-licker of any other Singapore political party. Neither am I a boot-licker of the Australian, New Zealand lifestyle and, for that matter, the lifestyle of any other country like so many TOC correspondents whose loyalty as a Singaporean to Singapore can be deemed as spurious.
I am just a native Singaporean who loves Motherland Singapore and cares for this “little red dot”.
@Bedouin
I bought and read the book “A Tartan” by Francis Seow when it was first published. (It has a green jacket). By the way, Francis Seow hides himself behind a “Canadian skirt” today. Did you know that he was Singapore’s first Solicitor General who crafted the very same laws which were used later to arrest him.
When he was Solicitor General, he stopped the Police from investigating his Swedish mistress whose apartment was raided by the Police because they found some copies of the Playboy magazine which, at that time, was deemed to be pornographic material and was a banned publication. He, the epitome and custodian of Justice in Singapore was conscientiously and deliberately subverting and thwarting Justice!
Francis Seow has no integrity and credibility. He is no way comparable to Dr Poh Soo Kai, the medical doctor who took on the mighty colonial British rulers and the early PAP government led by Lee Kuan Yew. Dr Poh STAYED in Singapore and fought and holds the record of being the Singaporean with the longest political detention.
Bedouin, don’t be curious about my existence. I urge you to believe in yourself, be true to yourself, take care of your family and question the integrity and loyalty of any Singaporean politician who claims he has the “silver bullet” to make Singapore a happy and safe Home. It does not matter whether he is of the PAP, Workers Party, etc – question each and everyone of them, and ask whether he is doing humble, yeoman service to fellow Singaporeans. To me, a diehard native-born Singaporean this is the litmus test I put every Singaporean politician through. If he fails this test, I reject him decisively and robustly.
@ Patrick Lee
the PAP government has always used police power to detain people that are critical of them in the past. is it any wonder WHY Singaporeans do not speak out?
it also put serial numbers on the voting thingie so that they can track u.
the only way is to educate the masses first, then see what can be done next.
and wait for the old man to die.
The overwhelming commentators of the article “Many Singaporeans want to migrate – Why?” by Leong Sze Hian have been critical of Singapore and hyper-melodious in praising the life-style of Western countries. My Comments have been “Think again, my fellow Singaporeans”. For presenting my views, many commentators have pilloried me to be a PAP lover. Well, this morning, I came across this article:
“America: The Grim Truth”, Posted in TRUTH by LanceFreedman76 on April 5 2010.
The url is: http://americathegrimtruth.wordpress.com/
These quotes caught my eye:
1. “Consider this: you are the only people in the developed world without a single-payer health system. Everyone in Western Europe, Japan, Canada, Australia, Singapore and New Zealand has a single-payer system. If they get sick, they can devote all their energies to getting well. If you get sick, you have to battle two things at once: your illness and the fear of financial ruin.”
2. …for a better life. In fact, the average Australian or Singaporean taxi driver has a much better standard of living than the typical American white-collar worker.”
To all my fellow Singaporeans, I exhort you again “Stop deluding yourself. Welcome to the real world. The next time you want to bash-up Motherland Singapore, do your homework first!”
I challenge you – be like your parents, relatives and friends of the pre-65 generation. They built Singapore; it is now your filial duty to build Singapore to the next higher level of success. You owe it to your children and your descendants.
Build Singapore! Do not destroy your legacy!
i never been so happy in my life thinking of migrating and i belive my next generation will thank me for this ….
To: T A Balasingam just let go la no point for u to stop those who wants to migrate out of here…
i think u are in the wrong forum
by posting your coment here will not do any good dont waste your time here spent time with your family better
@amran, To each his own I say. Some may choose to leave (best of luck to them and to you), and some may choose to stay on, in order to claim back from the PAPpies and the Leefamily what is rightfully ours.
Perhaps in the Singapore Revolution (hopefully within my lifetime), when the PAPpy fascist dictators are ousted by the patriots, and the Leefamily members are hung in the streets like Mussolini in Italy after the WW2, then a new order will prevail where there is democracy and freedom of speech and expression, and with a gahmen that is democratic, representative, transparent and accountable to its citizens.
Some, like TA Bala, could actually be paid by the gahmen to “engage us” in the internet, since they are losing the battle in cyberspace. For myself, I choose to stay on in Singapore to continue the fight; after all, why should I leave my country, when it should be the fascist dictators that should be overthrown and made to leave instead.
To : ccchia
it is true what u said but sadly things will never change here if can change long time change already.
so i and family must change for a better place :)
cheers!
I agree with CC Chia; I choose to stay too cos Singapore is my country & it’s my duty to protect her from PAP’s abuse. Leaving wont solve anything & I am wanna do my duty as a real citizen & bring in a wind of change. Why should I leave? Where on earth but in Singapore do we have chicken rice, Singlish, warm sunny weather all year round, celebrating a holiday with other religion & able to get supper at 3am almost anywhere! PAP has done a good job in the past, but it’s high time we tell them who’s boss & stop thinking that we are fools!
I am sure there are many like me that wont stand by & see her die.
Yes, I believe that there are lots of true citizens who are patriots and men of honour , and who love this country enough to defend and fight for what is theirs.
Unlike some gullible Sinkies and those who have sold their souls to the devil by joining PAP or have “gone to the other side” by becoming civil servants and others beholden to the PAP, we are aware of the following :-
Singapore is not the PAP and the country was not built by them, but by all of us.
The country can survive without the PAP, and the govt should be more afraid of its citizens than the other way around.
Singapore govt is not the PAP; they just happen to be the majority party at this time.
The Singapore civil service, police, army etc, should not take take orders from the PAP, but only from the govt of Singapore and they are responsible to its citizens.
The govt of Singapore and all its civil servants are paid from our taxes, therefore we the citizens are their masters and they should follow our mandate, and not that of the PAP or the Leefamily members.
The PAP thru its proxy the HDB should not fool and manipulate some of us with “upgrading scams etc” and by saying that “we are home owners and have an asset that we can rely on in our old age”, when in fact the HDB is the landlord and we are just 99-yr lease tenants.
To: ccchia
i do agree with u there if i had not gone through alot of unplesent things in my life here. i had enough i dont want my children to experience the same things.
u must be thinking what kind of thing i been through.
all i can say so bad that i never see myself as a sgrean ever since i was in the ns :(
well there are many many more but that i reserved the stories for my children and their children they deserve to know…
those who migrating out of here do have their own good reason why they leaving :)
That’s why I still keep my citizenship in order to vote!
Let all true blue Singaporean vote for a change, let’s exercise our right and educate whoever we meet, I know it is not an easy task and we have to do it, if not, who will fight for the land we love?
@T A Balasingam
Mr. Balasingam, I do believe in myself and I am taking care of my family. However, I am still a Singaporean and nothing will or can change that fact. I do my talking with my feet and my vote. And at the next election I WILL vote for the opposition! That is my right as SG in UK has stated. Because we believe in what Singapore should and can be is why we are all here today to debate the issues. I happily migrated 20 years ago and do not regret it, not one bit.
Each trip back to Singapore can last no more than a week before i get antsy and angry and need to leave again. Antsy because of the underlying oppressive environment and angry because it is being forced upon the people by a government that has ceased to govern and has chosen to dictate.
Mr. Balasingam, I am happy that I left when I did. I am just sorry that I could not have done more…
//b.
I am happy and proud of you that your are my fellow Singaporean citizen.
You don’t have to leave Singapore regularly when you get antsy. Just be gritty and stay to fight and make Singapore a happy home for all Singaporeans.
We need you here. Just one die-hard Singaporean to another Singaporean!
To tell u the truth i cant wait to change my citizenship i really wish i can change 20 yrs ago.
that is how i feel :)
but still it is not too late after 4yrs come back CUT my sg ic….wooohooo….woooohoooo….
thats a promise i made long long time ago :)
cheers!
I guess we need a change in SingApore.:)
When u want to compare which party is good for citizen,there is only 1 words, change.hahas.
I’m not saying PAP r not good,
In the 60s to 80s,PAP are the best party in the world.
They know how to takecare citizens.Let us have a flat to live in.
But now? can we affort it?
I so disappointed for PAP.
LKY is a hero when he was young,but…
To : Young citizen
i truly agree with u young ones :)
well think hard it will never ever change here thats the fact sadly :(
u are still young find a way to migrate out of here thats the only advice i can give u dont wait too long.
think for your future and your next generation :)
cheers!
do what in NZ?
@T A Balasingam
I haven’t read Francis Seow’s book and neither do I know a lot about him because I didn’t live through that period of time. However, I understand that Francis Seow didn’t choose to leave. He was detained under the ISA. In that circumstance, I don’t know if one should wait around to be convicted or try to leave the country at all costs, especially if you know that there is little chance of being freed. If Francis Seow didn’t feel that he needed to make changes to Singapore, why would he risk everything he had to go up against the Govt.? He could have just kept his mouth shut and went along with the Govt. programme in order to live a comfortable life here but he chose to take real action to stand up for what he believed in. And I think people could empathise with him, how else do we explain his 49% vote in Aljunied?
So I’m just wondering, when you talk about the litmus test that you put politicians through, shouldn’t Francis Seow count as a ‘good’ leader if we just look purely at his courage to stand up and make a difference? Who are we as people who may not have the same courage and daring as him to criticise his actions?
@TA Balasingam
You kept telling Singaporeans to stay and fight. Can we hear for a change what kind of fight are you talking about?
Many others have made sensible suggestions on actions but all you do is persuade people not to leave Singapore and stay to fight! To fight what and how?
You know well that there’s no way to vote the PAP out in any legitimate or legal manner as the electoral process is rigged by your hero LKY. Most Singaporeans are desperate and getting angrier each day with the PAP’s policies. Others chose to leave because no change of government is possible short of a violent revolution. I presume your fight is about changing the government. How do you propose Singaporeans can do this? We haven’t heard anything from you except ‘stay and fight’!
Are you one of those who is quick to mouth a lot of words but takes no action when its time to? Your many posts have shown to be rather deceiving in nature? One could conclude that you are gathering victims for destruction by your great mentor LKY when you get to know who they are? A Singapore Judas, perhaps?! Please clarify what your many words means for goodness sake!
@Oracle
If you had checked the several occasions I had written and said “Stay and fight”, it was directed to:
a. Those ex-Singaporeans, now foreign citizens, who had returned to Singapore and brag unashamedly that they could not accept the then state of affairs in Singapore and so left.
b. Those ex-Singaporeans who had obtained foreign citizenship today but who for some ludicrous reason choose to “over-stay” and live happily in this “hell-hole” (using their words) called Singapore.
c. Those discouraged Singaporeans who are still citizens of Singapore, contemplate migrating and look forward to an improved lifestyle.
Why? Running away to another country does not solve their personal problem. Many of my post-war generation, before the pre-65 generation, “ran away” when life in Singapore was difficult and uncertain. The Western media called our then situation as “a hopeless situation”.
In recent years, many of them, of whom many were my school-mates returned. I asked them why they came back. Quite sheepishly, they said that the “local whites” never accepted them and after 40 years are still called “chinks”, “slit-eyed” and other demeaning names notwithstanding they were professionals in their own right and have embraced the foreign citizenship. On the other hand, the majority of my generation stayed back and, against all odds, be they political, security threats, economic, etc we overcame and made Singapore what it is today where everybody has equal opportunity in education, housing, health benefits, etc.
So I urge all the above three groups “Stay and fight’ for everything you want for yourself, family and future generations. Support the responsible loyal Singaporean politicians, of whichever political party, who have a realistic vision and manifesto to bring Singapore to the next higher level of nationhood and economic success. Reject politicians who are just spoiling to destroy Singapore, whoever they are, and who have no practical and realistic manifesto as well as those politicians who are now bringing in “foreign talent’ politicians like Mr van Baleen”, a Member of the European Parliament, who does not have the gumption, courage or conscience to fight even for his own downtrodden, dis-enfranchised non-white citizens in the so-called Western European democracies that constitute the European Parliament. Instead Mr van Baleen boastfully said he wants to ‘fight for the oppressed Singaporeans” now.
So I say to all Singaporeans, empower yourself individually and collectively “Stand, stay and fight for what you believe in and want for yourself, family and future generations”.
Much as I appreciate your attempt to answer my simple question as what you mean by ‘to stay and fight’, I remain unconvinced.
I spent a considerable time in Australia and New Zealand working on business projects and am acquainted with many Singaporeans including the previous ambassador who happened to be a schoolmate. Generally, they are doing well and have not complained too seriously about being victims of racism. I, myself, have Australian partners and find it easy to get along with them. In fact, I appreciate their civility and good manners besides their sense of fairness. So, it is an exaggeration to say that simply because you live in a country where the white Europeans are the majority, it must necessarily for people to be anti-Asian. On the contrary I would grade the behavior of Australian and New Zealanders as infinitely more civil than Singaporeans. This is not to say anything derogatory but simply to point out that people in Singapore like Hong Kong have little time for others and face far greater pressures.
In fact, in Australia and New Zealand Singaporeans are generally held in better regard than other immigrants except those from Britain. They are considered law abiding, hard working and disciplined and less likely to ‘rort’ the welfare system meant for the less fortunate.
However, there are some Singaporeans who brought with them the Singaporean attitude about how things should be. They like to compare ways things are done in their adopted home with that in Singapore. There is no doubt that things move faster and are efficient in Singapore but circumstances are different. Thus they are unhappy and some returned to Singapore but they are a minority. My view is that these would be unhappy everywhere including being in Singapore.
However, this does not warrant your conclusion that they returned because people in Australia and New Zealand are racists and Asians are being discriminated against. This is PAP propaganda and you are just repeating it verbatim.
As to name calling, it occurs everywhere. My Hong Kong friends calls the white expatriate ‘Kwai lo’ and in China they are given a worse nickname. It’s neither here nor there and do not reflect the general population. So to cite a few examples and then tar brush a society is silly bigotry. Do I have to remind you that many Chinese businessmen in Singapore do not employ Indians and Malays as a principle? I should know, I deal intimately with these guys.
No true Singaporean would think of destroying Singapore. However with the present immigration policies of the regime, future generations of average Singaporeans face a bleak future. If you cannot understand this, you are either in denial or ignorant. It is thus the current regime who would destroy Singapore as they force the future citizens to accept lower wages and thus a lower standard of living. The total denial of the citizenship rights of Singaporeans can only result in a future explosion as in Thailand. You do not seem to see this, believing that you are somewhat special and are not subject to the same repression. One can conclude that you are a PAP supporter or you are particularly privileged. Be warned that no citizenry can be driven to despair with no hope for the future. When things get really unpleasant I hope you can live up to your boast and not run away even when there is danger to your children’s lives.
I agree with you though that Singaporeans should not go live elsewhere because they are ‘running away’ from Singapore. The Singapore situation does not spawn refugees; only dissatisfied citizens who wish to better their lives elsewhere. This is a globally fluid world and talents are welcome everywhere. Many talented Singaporeans, too many I regret, have left Singapore. LKY’s narrow definition of what is talent is no longer valid and is pushing good citizens out. I see them, young and old doing very well in their adopted country. Many as young as those in their thirties are thriving well in businesses which could have spawned many jobs in Singapore. But like Sim Wong Hoo, they are regarded as ‘freaks’, meaning they are just lucky, by LKY whose definition of talent is having 11A Ones in HSC.
Thus Singapore is thus facing a dearth of enterprises created by Singaporeans; most businesses in Singapore today are government owned. Have you ever wondered that with so many talented scholars Singapore has not created a single recognisable world brand or win any noble prize? Finland has 3 or 4 million people but they have some of the most advanced inventions including Nokia and Wartsila. The same can be said of Sweden!
Out of the 500 or so MNCs in Asia only two or three are in Singapore now; even then with dwindled employment. Seagate had just retrenched 2000 + workers in Singapore last year. Why is this happening? It’s because LHL is not managing Singapore well enough for its citizens and no one can do anything about having a better PM. Do you believe that having two casinos is going to create many jobs? It is simply a desperate measure and LKY knows it; the insidious effects of casinos in a country and why he has opposed vehemently it all along. Now that his son wants it he doesn’t care a damn about the damage it would do to Singapore and Singaporeans.
My question to you how do you think Singaporeans should do to prevent the father and son from ruining their children’s future? Are you assuming you are immune? What do you really believe in besides your rhetoric? Give us something sensible to chew on and not continue with your sloganeering, please!
My last post is addressed to TA Balasingam
Dear TR,
You may have noticed that despite the articles being properly paragraphed, they are jammed up leaving no space in between. This makes reading rather unpleasant and tedious.
Please have your software guys find some remedy.
Thank you.
To :Oracle
to my favorate Oracle what u said again is very very very very TRUE i counld’nt say it better than that bro!
cheers!
@Oracle
You asked me this question in your Comment dated 15 April 2010, “ You kept telling Singaporeans to stay and fight. Can we hear for a change what kind of fight are you talking about?”
I replied in my above Comment dated 15 April also. My answer was covered by these statements:
1. Running away to another country does not solve their personal problem.
2. So I urge all the above three groups “Stay and fight’ for everything you want for yourself, family and future generations.
To : T A Balasingam
those who stayed and fight have they change anything?
ans: nothing
u said Running away to another country does not solve their personal problem?
ans : it really SOLVED my personal problem it is here is the PROBLEM cant u see it?
U urge all the above three groups “Stay and fight’ for everything you want for yourself, family and future generations.
ans: u must be joking
@T A Balasingam
I appreciate your spirit, but… there is really very little that an individual can truly do to fight the system. The only way I imagine I can be effective is to cast my vote (if I had the chance) – to voice my displeasure with the system. It has always been a walkover for me.
Yes I might be able to inform my friends of the alternative view to what is happening and hope they will voice out and vote similarly, but there is really not much else other than being constrained to an online world of complaints and commiseration.
The fear of persecution weighs heavily, and the other option is to vote with one’s feet. Perceived benefit greater outside, the push and pull factors add up.
I read a separate article on leaving Singapore for overseas opportunities to increase personal value / wealth / advancement.
In part I naively feel that as being of the younger generation, if we really wanted to contribute to Singapore, we’d have to go out, empower ourselves, and then come back when we have acquired enough resource, clout or ability to do so.
Then again, why would we come back if we could achieve a better life outside? Therein lies the relevance of “Stay and Fight” to me, except not literally.
@Oracle
You asked me this question in your Comment dated 15 April 2010, “You kept telling Singaporeans to stay and fight. Can we hear for a change what kind of fight are you talking about?”
I replied in my above Comment dated 15 April also. My answer was covered by these statements:
1. Running away to another country does not solve their personal problem.
2. So I urge all the above three groups “Stay and fight’ for everything you want for yourself, family and future generations.
3. Support the responsible loyal Singaporean politicians, of whichever political party, who have a realistic vision and manifesto to bring Singapore to the next higher level of nationhood and economic success.
4. Reject politicians who are just spoiling to destroy Singapore, whoever they are, and who have no practical and realistic manifesto as well as those politicians who are now bringing in “foreign talent’ politicians like Mr van Baleen”, a Member of the European Parliament…… ‘
I have answered your question.
The key point in your follow-up Comment was:
1. “I, myself, have Australian partners and find it easy to get along with them…..”
Rebuttal: Your comment is based on your personal experience. This is the only primary source of information supporting your comment. In my Comment I said “In recent years, many of them, of whom many were my school-mates returned. I asked them why they came back. Quite sheepishly, they said…. “. My answer has more than one primary sources of information. In Logic and Statistics , my answer is more reliable because the statement has more than one primary source of information. Thus my statement has credence whilst your statement is spurious and, in effect, should be rejected.
The rest of your Comment contains no new point. Its entire discourse is a series of remarks elaborating your only one point. In Logic and Statistics, it is 1x1x!x1,,,(i.e. 1 to the power of n) = 1. In total effect, Logic and credence, your entire discourse is still one point.
Many past doomsday prophets since 1959 had “prophesized” that Singapore was doomed. The Republic of Singapore is still alive, vibrant and independent today -2010. You are another prophet come lately making similar prophesies. Your fate will be the same as your predecessors.
You asked me, “My question to you how do you think Singaporeans should do to prevent the father and son from ruining their children’s future? My simple, clear and short answer described above is “Support the responsible loyal Singaporean politicians, of whichever political party, who have a realistic vision and manifesto to bring Singapore to the next higher level of nationhood and economic success.” And I am not citing the party to be the PAP. Singaporeans will decide because they are Masters of their Own Destiny. Singaporeans who “Stand, stay and fight for what they believe in and want for themselves, family and future generations”.
My last words to you “Oracle, you have chosen to leave Singapore, a decision I respect. You are an ex-Singaporean. All I ask you is to respect we Singaporeans who chose to stay. Refrain from blackwalling us, which includes who have chosen to stay. Also, my children who chose to return from some of the best universities in the world. Do not insult our intelligence because we chose to stay back in Motherland Singapore. We will build a legacy of generations of Singaporeans like the Kennedys of America, the Gandhis of India, the Mandelas of South Africa, the Martin Luther Kings of America and finally the J B Jeyaretnams of Singapore.
I wish you and your future generations all the best in your adopted country. Teach them “do not country-hop” Serve it well because you owe it to your new adopted country. Visit Singapore, your ancestral home, whenever you can, we are still members of Humanity, Homo Sapiens, on Planet Earth – the only home for Humanity.
To Amran:
You do not know me personally from Adam. You do not even know my life story. Yet you are very quick to pass unsubstantiated, harsh judgement. Why? Neither do I know you personally. But I rspect you for your decision to quit Singapore.
If you knew me you would be inspired by my life story. I was born in 1943, a son of a destitute, illiterate father and mother. Against all odds, my family and I survived the Japanese Occupation from 1943-45 (I was run over by a Japanese Army jeep in now Tessenshon Road and against all forecasts of imminent death made by my neighbours, I survived without receiving medical attention from a doctor but by just unconditional love and care of my mother.), the Korean War depression from 1950-1953, the Maria Herthog riots in 1950, the Hock Lee riots in the 1955, the Indonesian Confrontation from 1962-1966, the Prophet Mohammad Birth Day incident in1964, the expulsion of Singapore from Malaysia in 1965, the British Withdrawal in 1971, and in recent times, the recessions in 1985, 2001 and 2008.
As a primary and later secondary schoolboy, I studied every night sitting under a street light and did my homework and studied my lessons. I lived in a rented one-room with my family without electricity.
I am one of the first post-war babies who went to the University of Singapore, now called National University of Singapore on a government bursary and became what I am today.
As the Chinese saying says – I have eaten more salt than you have eaten.
I respect you. In return, just respect me. Stop making empty boasts.
I am not a quitter!
Bala,
It is a free world, ppl can decide where they want to go,…especially to somewhere where they can make a better life or are better appreciated for their services.
My only request….pse ,if , election does comes, and if you are still around while in the midst of preparing to migrate off…..pse do us a BIG FAVOR..VOTE FOR OPPOSITION. Your vote does help and counts.
TO : T A Balasingam
it is true that i dont know u and i dont want to know u.
your story is your story it got nothing to do with me and i really dont care which year u are born but u said that i never respect u??? did i scold u? no right
pls stay here by all means it is YOUR CHOICE….
when i read your story i feel that u are a BIG or BIGGEST LIAR in singapore! where got a human being been run over by a jeep can survice without seeing a doctor and i can see u like to say unnecessary thing with your long story.
i really think u are in the wrong forum.
u said that u eat more salt then me right?
if u really 67 year old right now your generation is long over…
as the new generation like us we still have a long way to go thats is why we are making our own wise choice to leave here….
dont u feel sad alot of people always scolded u?
i wonder if u have a good night sleep every night..
do something useful like spent time with your own family and old friends dont be here and make enemy.
Whether one agrees with Bala’s views or not, I think it’s fair to say that we should give each other the necessary space to air one’s views. It’s the basic respect we should give each other. So let’s try to refrain from name-calling and keep things civil.
Hi Papsmear,
Yes, rest assured I will remain in Motherland Singapore regardless whether the General Elections is imminent or not and that I will just have to wait. For me who is a die-hard Singaporean, waiting as necessary is not an ordeal.
Like all past elections, I will assess carefully all candidates as to whether he or she cares, listens and solves the needs and problems of my man-in-the-street fellow Singaporeans. Political party, academic qualification, race, education and social background are not any of the criteria on my assessment card. Honesty, integrity, humanity and can-do want-to-help character are the criteria.
To Amran,
You said, “if u really 67 year old right now your generation is long over…”
I hope you will let your mother and father, and your children read this judgement of yours.
One day, you will grow old (and may reach my age and live even longer) and your children will also be adults by then.
Fate is cruel and a demanding Judge. He will, by His Will, cause the wrongdoings of an adult generation to visit the next generation, and the next generation repeatedly until the debt of their forefathers has been paid in full.
Also, remember the Malay words of wisdom – Never point your finger at anyone and accuse or scold him because concurrently three fingers of the same hand are pointing back at you.
Respect , my man, just respect.
We are brothers of the same race of Humanity.
Much as one may be impressed by your personal story, you have to agree that it is not unique. Most Singaporeans, including Mah Bow Tan who has also told his story, went through similar periods of hardships, lesser or harder, including LKY.
Many of us have contributed in greater or lesser measure to Singapore’s success through the sixties, seventies and eighties. My quarrel is that the claims to Singapore’s development is being made by only LKY and his cronies, who are obscenely remunerated whilst those Singaporeans who worked as hard but didn’t quite made it are living hand to mouth. Despite a huge accumulation of sovereign wealth, the PAP have chosen to ignore these people’s plights yet allowing LKY’s family members to lose billions of dollars. Surely Singaporeans are entitled to some relief for their years of contribution.
It is also clear to many others that the current, cynical policy of importing a million and half of unskilled immigrants is causing hardships to Singaporeans and presenting them with a bleaker future; through downward pressure on wages, higher housing costs and lesser good employment opportunities. There is also the fact that despite much mismanagement by the PAP regime, there is no legal or political pathway for Singaporeans to change the administration except by a revolution.
However, you have chosen to ignore these injustices to Singaporeans at large, perhaps because you believe that you and your children having made
it (and my sincere congratulations) are immune to them. You have therefore chose to overlook the PAP’s transgression of citizens’ rights as enshrined in the constitution; which has been distorted beyond recognition. On top of this, you even casts aspersion on Singaporeans who exercised their rights to have a better life elsewhere.
Whilst we respect your determination to ‘stay and fight’, your statements to date have shown a lack of honesty in assessment of the situation. Contrary to your swagger that what you state can only be right and others wrong, your denial of the moral and political injustices perpetrated by the PAP government can be described as either unreal or dishonest.
Again, we respect your views but your repeated utterance of using the current political system to vote for your so-called ‘truly loyal politician’ is unreal. First, are you implying JBJ, CSJ, Tang Liang Hong, Poh Soo Kai, Dr Lim Hock Siew and others are not ‘truly loyal politicians’? Secondly, what you suggest is comical when you consider that the present electoral system, as rigged by LKY, allows no opposing party to the PAP to be voted in. To ignore this clear fact is to be either deceiving or simply dishonest.
As to your statement referring to political dynasties you are either facetious or have your head in the sand; so long as the father and son team are leading in Singapore, there would be no Kennedys or Ghnadis or whatsoever. The only allowed and recognisable FIRST FAMILY has been and would always be the LEE family until the PAP government is rid of them. By their complete capture of the Singapore political power and governance by repression, the PAP have resulted in Singaporeans being currently seen as third world nationals in a first world economy ( the first world benefits only for the elite). The pride that we have acquired as a hardworking people who have turned a swamp into a credible nation has been eroded!
By continually denying these facts, guys like you would only condemn future generations of Singaporeans to a bleaker future. Like you I do not wish this, as we fought long and hard for Singapore in the earlier days and made it a country to be proud of. It is more the pity that LKY and son has turned Singapore into a nation where the first citizens are now condemned to a second-class status except I suppose, for the likes of the Balasingams!
@oracle
Bala loves his country and wants to stay and fight. There is nothing wrong here.
He likes other Singaporeans to stay and fight for Singapore no matter what. It is good.
Dear Oracle,
Your entire treatise, your latest Comment, is an articulation of what you perceive are the current ills of the political system in Singapore. However you have offered no solution to resolve the “malaise”.
That is the Achilles Heel of your entire thesis. So your essay is of no practical usefulness to us Singaporeans who are “locked up in this hell-hole called Singapore” (sic).
On the other hand, I, who lives in Singapore, has advocated a solution which I had stated in an earlier Comment.
I urge you, Oracle, (Live up to your nom-de-plume – Oracle) to comment on them to advance forward our debate instead of repeating your description of Singapore as you perceive.
From your latest Comment, I have a growing sense and suspicion that you are not a Singapore citizen. Your use of the English language to articulate your points is characterised by an “air of deference” in that you do not care a damn if Singapore goes to the dogs. For example your thoughts as expressed in your words “….has turned Singapore into a nation where the first citizens are now condemned to a second-class status except I suppose, for the likes of the Balasingams!”
On the other hand, I may be wrong (I hope, you prove me wrong!). If you are a Singapore citizen and aspire to make Singapore the best it can be, then come back to Singapore and join all my fellow Singaporeans who have chosen to stay and fight like Chee Soon Juan, Chiam See Tong. Low Thia Kiang, Kenneth Jeyaretnam ( a returned Singaporean), son of J B Jeyaretnam, etc.
Make the choice – the right choice – Come back, stay and fight.
Are you rock diamond (which you purport to be) or are you fluff?
I have decided like so many fellow Singaporeans – Stay and fight! and win against the overwhelming odds. Like the 100 Parthans against the million-strong Persian Army at the Battle of Marathon.
Come back, stay and fight. For our beloved Motherland Singapore!
TO :T A Balasingam
u said we are brother???? we ARE NOT mind u!!!
my parent are very happy that i going to migrate to a better country abd so do i and my family and my next generation too and their and i will tell them about U who post his coment here…. as i said before U ARE IN THE WRONG FORUM..take my advice go to NTUC FORUM!!!
well i gues u love this forum and try to persuade people to stay and fight and get scolding by alot of people is also good for u maybe u are lonely no one to talk to or whatever reason well who cares right oh ya it dosent mean u 67 or even 10000 years old u eat more salt then others….pls dont talked as if u went through alot of things in life.
this is not “i love u singapore”
be gone T A Balasingam..
your coment is in the wrong forum
To Amran and boy;
You accuse me to be in the wrong forum????
Read again, what The Online Citizen stands for at its url:
http://theonlinecitizen.com/
ABOUT US
Who are we:
TOC is a blog site which endeavours to reflect the views and opinions of ordinary Singaporeans. It is a platform which welcomes contributions from the man in the street, the average citizen who is concerned about issues facing our country.
Here at TOC, Singaporeans share their honest opinions.
TOC does not pretend to be right all the time in what we say. We are open to corrections and even criticisms. It is our hope that through the honest and civil exchange of views, all of us will benefit and perhaps take public discourse, especially on controversial issues, to a higher and mature level. (My underline)
By trying “to chase me” away from this forum, you demonstrate that you can only feel comfortable with people of the same views.
Hahah! You are only confirming that you are products of the PAP Singapore education system i.e. produce Singaporeans who can only have a one-track mind and wear blinkers like tame horses pulling a horse-carriage. Afraid of people who have a different viewpoint.
Thank God for The Online Citizen, one of the few National blogs that lives up to its standard:
“It is our hope that through the honest and civil exchange of views, all of us will benefit and perhaps take public discourse, especially on controversial issues, to a higher and mature level.”
Amran and boy:
Wake up! Grow up if you want to enjoy living in a Singapore that is transforming to accept and support all viewpoints – truly the new paradise on Planet Earth.
Dear TA Balasingam,
Once more your honesty is questionable. Mine is not a treatise but is a reflection of what many here know of the true situation.
Also you are assuming too much. You are guessing I don’t live in Singapore, am a foreigner and have no solutions. Your so-called solution is one proposed by a person whose head is either in the clouds or is dishonest; dishonest because you refuse to acknowledge the impossibility of ridding the PAP through the electoral system. Until some truths on issues are acknowledged there is no common ground for discussions of solutions.
I care about Singapore. My family connections are all here. Together with many we worked hard, like everyone else, through the years to help Singapore attained first world status. We didn’t envisage that under LKY’s son we would become second class citizens. We worked in grassroots to the highest levels; my mates are at the highest level in government and industries. We are not unprivileged; but we feel a sense of injustice for those less endowed to compete. They have made their contributions too and their kids deserve the same chance.
We do have solutions too but first, we need to define the issues and situations honestly. This is my complaint about you. ‘To stay and fight’ means first acknowledging the truth which you have somehow managed to evade. Simply telling your hardship stories, boasting and insulting others only render suspicions of your intention or agenda. Do you truly love Singapore or putting up a front to entrap others? It is unclear from your statements.
There is always a solution to a human situation. Much as LKY and his son think that they can continue to outsmart all Singaporeans, it is simply not true. Oppressors always suffer a delusion that they can continue forever; look at Stalin, Hitler, Suharto and Saddam Hussein as examples. A dissatisfied and unhappy people who feels incessant oppression would find the solution; albeit, unfortunately, often an ugly one.
We wish that LKY and sons could do like Chiang Ching Kuo who dismantled his father’s (Chiang Kai Shek, admired by LKY) autocratic regime and delivered democracy to Taiwan. Look at the country now; a world beater in many leading industries.
It is when citizens continue to send back the message to the governing clique of their oppression, by telling the truth, that things can change. The PAP have for far too long been believe their own propaganda; also supported by people like you.
Singaporeans would find their solution, not by telling the repressive and devious regime what they are going to do. LKY has long figured out that when there are enough unhappy citizens, they can be voted out; he called this a ‘freak’ election. He has thus rigged the system to ensure this never happens; this fact you refuse to acknowledge making you more suspicious still; because you kept saying ‘stay and fight’ i.e. through a flawed system!
It is hope that LHL and father can set aside their avarice for a moment and ‘see the light’; that Singaporeans want a new regime no matter how much less efficient. If efficiency is a reason for not throwing out a government, democratic countries would all be autocratic. If they are really that concerned they should ease Singapore into a democratic state like most of their neighbours. The alternative solution is ugly but is needed; but Singapore would survive because Singaporeans have been through hardship and chaos before. The alternative is continuing repression and a poor future for new generations.
Freedom to choose their own government can only begin when enough Singaporeans are aware of the true issues and are able to see through the deceits of so-called lovers of Singapore; especially those who professed themselves die-hards, whatever that may mean. Revealing what can be done to unseat this repressive regime is dangerously naïve; at least not to those who appear deceitful in this forum!
T A Balasingam i maybe young but not STUPID….
it is true what amran said ..u are the one who should wake up from u dream…i myself also planning to MIGRATE out of here i realise now there so many people wanting to MIGRATE out of here that is really a good a sign it is prove there really something very wrong here!.
to those who MIGRATING KEEP GOING DON’T LOOK BACK EVEN FOR A SECOND!!
T A Balasingam no matter what u say nothing change OUR mind
Dear Oracle,
On 15 April, you asked me “Can we hear for a change what kind of fight are you talking about?”
I replied on the same day. My answer was covered by these statements:
1. Running away to another country does not solve their personal problem.
2. So I urge all the above three groups “Stay and fight’ for everything you want for yourself, family and future generations.
3. Support the responsible loyal Singaporean politicians, of whichever political party, who have a realistic vision and manifesto to bring Singapore to the next higher level of nationhood and economic success.
4. Reject politicians who are just spoiling to destroy Singapore, whoever they are, and who have no practical and realistic manifesto as well as those politicians who are now bringing in “foreign talent’ politicians like Mr van Baleen”, a Member of the European Parliament…… ‘
I have answered your question.
On 17 April, I asked you what is your solution. Up to now, you have not written any solution. Why?
Instead , in your last Comment dated 17 April, you wrote “Revealing what can be done to unseat this repressive regime is dangerously naïve ….” If you are afraid to give your solution because it would be dangerously naive, then similarly it would have been dangerously naive for me to do so. Yet you proceeded to put me in mortal danger by asking the question. Your action is unethical and despicable.
Your Comment on 18 April that “….Your so-called solution ”…… is dishonest; dishonest because you refuse to acknowledge the impossibility of ridding the PAP through the electoral system.
By calling me dishonest, by your same cruel judgement, you have called Chee Soon Juan, Chiam See Tong, Low Thia Kiang and the late Singapore patriot J B Jeyaretnam to be dishonest also. This is because they have been fighting to rid the PAP through the electoral system. They have paid a heavy price, some to almost financial ruin. Do not insult my brave fellow Singaporean politicians by calling them dishonest just because they have chosen to fight the PAP through the electoral system.
Finally you said that I am wrong to assume that you are not a Singaporean and that you are a foreigner. Then what are you? In one sentence, state what you are. Prove me wrong. I have done so in one sentence – I am a die-hard Singaporean!
@TA Balasingam
No, I am not a cruel man. I only hate people who evade the truth and cannot conduct an honest debate. Those who know me know that I and others have done more than our fair share.
No, you have offered no solution. You are asking people not to leave and those who didn’t, to stay and fight; to fight in an electoral system which allows only the PAP to win. How is this a solution? You are advocating a status quo situation where the problems of Singaporeans can only remain.
Again, you are flattering yourself by comparing yourself to JBJ and others who have made great sacrifices. Anyone who reads my post would know I didn’t call them dishonest. I call you dishonest by not acknowledging the fact that we cannot win playing the PAP way; yet one you keep urging us to follow!
You are saying that CSJ, JBJ and others are fighting the PAP through the electoral system. They are not! They know that fighting through the system would only lead to ruin. By urging others to fight this way you are leading us to a no win situation and perhaps ruin. Are you leading us to ruin?
The opposition is fighting for Singaporeans to have our rights back. Their right to elect the government we want through a fair and democratic system as enshrined in the constitution. If the people of Singaporeans are not given a lawful and democratic way to choose their government, they could only fight for it in desperate ways.
What is the PAP afraid of? If through a fair and democratic process, the majority of people believe that the PAP is doing a good job, they would be re-elected anyway! However, they would let not this to happen; why? Have LKY and son have too much to hide and to loose. The people of Singapore have nothing to loose if their children have no future!
Thus your so-called solution is no solution at all, by asking us to vote the way the PAP chooses; i.e. a way which we can only loose. The PAP and their policies would still be there. The future of Singaporeans would still be bleak. Is this your solution? Honest?!
Apologies: the word ‘loose’ in my last post should be read as ‘lose’.
Dear Oracle,
Just answer my first question -” What is your solution?
Do not pick selectively the words in my sentences to suit your statements in order to ridicule me. Rebut my thought contained by the entire sentence. That is what it means “to rebut in context” which any Singapore secondary student who has taken part in an inter-school debate will point out to you about your statements. For example, I wrote “By calling me dishonest, by your same cruel judgement, you have called Chee Soon Juan, Chiam See Tong, Low Thia Kiang and the late Singapore patriot J B Jeyaretnam to be dishonest also. This is because they have been fighting to rid the PAP through the electoral system. ”
You chose selectively in your statement “You are saying that CSJ, JBJ and others are fighting the PAP through the electoral system. They are not!” You missed out Chiam See Tong and Low Thia Kiang, and the late Singapore patriot J B Jeyaretnam in my statement. Why? Furthermore, are Chiam See Tong and Low Thia Kiang not honourable Opposition MPs in Parliament today? Was not the late J B Jeyaretnam an honourable Opposition MP in Parliament several times?
Why did you omit these 3 Opposition Members of Parliament who were voted in to Parliament through the electoral system? Now, who is being dishonest in the expression of his views?
You have not answered my second question also – “Finally you said that I am wrong to assume that you are not a Singaporean and that you are a foreigner. Then what are you?
If you have guts, just answer directly these 2 questions. Give straight, to-the-point answers.
Finally, you have repeatedly abuse me in your Comments.. On the other hand, I have refrained from abusing you. Why? Because:
1. I respect the views of every writer in The Online Citizen, including you.
2. I subscribe and comply to what The Online Citizen advocates as responsible journalism.
TA Balasingam,
No, you are not dishonest; just so earnest to prove yourself right despite facts to the contrary.
As to your point about the opposition, how are you associated with CSJ, CST, LTK and the late JBJ? Why do you think you are one of them; what have you done? You have seen how JBJ tried to fight the PAP honestly; what was the result? A man practically destroyed by a no-win game devised by LKY!
As to CST and LTK, intelligent commentators would tell you that they have done nothing very significant except bolster the PAP lie that Singapore is a democratic nation.
Nobody is abusing you; you are doing it to yourself . Your last paragraph is an indication. It’s full of blaster and boast and a slight thuggery!
However, perhaps it’s getting a bit far. If you love Singapore as you vehemently profess, and want to fight for its betterment, then I guess no one should fault you. As to lack of respect (you call abuse)for others you are not entirely innocent; your posts to amran, boy and others have shown you ever willing to prove yourself and your points as superior.
No discourse is possible if there is no common ground. I maintain that you have refused to acknowledge situations on the ground. Your call to Singaporeans ‘to stay and fight’ may be well-meaning but your method may be misguided. Whilst others can see the system would result in defeat for opposition and Singaporeans, you cannot! It won’t be long for time to tell whether the PAP could be defeated at the next election; I doubt it but you choose to believe that’s the way.
Let’s leave it that we agree to disagree; and let history be the judge.
T A Balasingam
“Like all past elections, I will assess carefully all candidates as to whether he or she cares, listens and solves the needs and problems of my man-in-the-street fellow Singaporeans. Political party, academic qualification, race, education and social background are not any of the criteria on my assessment card. Honesty, integrity, humanity and can-do want-to-help character are the criteria.”
In your opinion does our current PAP Ministers & MPs fall into these category that you mentioned?