Leong Sze Hian
I refer to the article “Singapore envies Kiwi lifestyle” (New Zealand Herald, Feb 9).
It states that
“The bait was better working hours, cheaper cars and housing – and in three weeks thousands from Singapore have registered their interest in living in New Zealand.
An Immigration New Zealand pilot project aimed at attracting Singaporean migrants has resulted in over 1000 registrations each week since it was launched last month, with 3565 potential immigrants having registered their interest in just three weeks”.
According to another article “Survey finds that workers in Singapore put in longest hours” (The China Post, Jan 12),
“Singapore’s workers continue to lead the pack when it comes to the number of hours they put in at work, according to a report by the International Labor Organization (ILO). The report puts them at the top of 13 economies in the group’s Global Wages Report for 2008-09, surpassing even the notoriously hardworking Japanese and Taiwanese”.
Singaporeans are among the hardest workers in the world, but do not have enough, upon retirement, to live in comfort in their home country. Is there any wonder why they should choose to migrate to other places that are much more affordable?
Cars for example, are so expensive in Singapore that a car owner may end up with $2 million less in retirement. This is calculated from an estimated cost of $1,000 monthly compounded at 6 per cent over 40 years.
To explain the poverty of retired Singaporeans, we’d have to explore the possible link between the 2 largest entities that effectively ‘lock up’ the wages of Singaporeans – HDB and CPF.
Increasing flat prices decrease the amount of CPF upon retirement
In line with the government’s policy of letting Singaporeans use their flats for asset enhancement, many Singaporeans have bought their flat, using the bulk of their CPF in a typical 30-year mortgage, in hope that the continued increase in property prices would serve as a boon during retirement.
By pricing flats under ‘market subsidy’ pricing, asset ‘enhancement’ schemes such as upgrading inevitably become a burden to Singaporeans who have no choice but to use even more of the CPF for their upgraded HDB flat. In addition to that, HDB has never disclosed the cost of building flats. Thus, flat pricing, and the amount of CPF ‘locked’ in it, is really at the whim of property speculation.
With 80 per cent of the population living in public housing, and with a bulk of a typical homeowner’s CPF savings ‘locked’ by the flat, social security for the average Singaporean is contingent on HDB policies. When you can’t pay your mortgage, you may lose your home and maybe your life CPF savings too.
Consequently, with the bulk of their CPF ‘locked’ in unliquidated assets, many Singaporeans end up with very little CPF when they retire.
CPF gets transferred out of Singaporeans’ hands, into HDB’s pockets
When the HDB sends a notice of Compulsory Acquisition to flat owners, 90 per cent of the flat’s valuation is used to offset the loan arrears; HDB makes a profit of 10 per cent of the valuation. While it is understandable that HDB as a statutory board has to run on a sustainable business model, it seems counterintuitive that a public housing board should profit from the destitution of its citizens.
For example, flat owners in addition to losing 10 per cent of their flat valuation to HDB, are only given one month to vacate their flats. Why does the HDB not give them a bit more time to find alternative accommodation?
As a public housing authority with the mission to provide affordable housing for Singaporeans, is the HDB not in a sense, in breach of its fiduciary duty, in this arbitrary practice of ‘pinching’ 10 per cent of the valuation?
Are there any public housing authorities in the world that takes an additional 10 per cent profit on foreclosure?
Parliamentarians may like to raise this issue with a view to refunding the ‘pinched’ valuation to all past foreclosed flat owners.
Why it’s almost impossible to get enough cash upon retirement
Effective last year, if you sell your HDB flat after age 55 to downgrade to a smaller flat and to monetise your flat for retirement, any CPF utilised plus accrued interest has to be returned to the CPF account if the CPF Minimum Sum (MS) has not been met.
With the current MS at $117,000, what this policy change means is that this sum cannot be used to purchase the smaller flat downgrade.
Why are we making it harder for Singaporeans to downgrade to monetise their flat for retirement?
Many Singaporeans subscribed to the call for asset enhancement by purchasing HDB flats – only to be hit by the policy change now, which in effect, may result in their inability to cash out of their “enhanced” HDB asset.
The CPF Minimun Sum (MS) was raised from July 1, 2009, for those aged 55 years, to $117,000, up from $106,000. This is an increase of 10.4 per cent, much more than the inflation rate for the previous year, which was 6.5 per cent. How can the increase in MS be “an adjustment for inflation, is to ensure that Singaporeans set aside sufficient savings for their retirement?”
Similarly, the MS was increased by 6.4 per cent in July 2008, from $99,600 to $106,000, when inflation was only 2.1 per cent in 2007.
With the current recession, some of those reaching age 55, may have lost their jobs or failed in their businesses, and thus a large increase in the MS, may cause some financial stress to them. As last year’s increase is the highest in the history of the MS scheme, at its current quantum of increase, does it mean that by 2013, the MS may be about $161,000 ($117,000 now plus $11,000 increase for 4 years)?
Can anyone afford to retire in Singapore in future?
The Longevity Insurance Committee’s (LIC) CPF Life report last year only projected a MS of $134,000 in 2013 (chapter 4). Adding the projected Medisave Required Amount (MRA) of $36,000 in 2013, does it mean that those reaching age 55 may only be able to withdraw $5,000, if they have less than $197,000 (MS $161,000 plus MRA $36,000) in their CPF? How many Singaporeans will have more than $197,000 in their CPF in 2013?
The answer can be found in the LIC report: only 60 per cent are projected to have at least $67,000 in their CPF in 2013.
At the current rate of increase of $15,500 per year ($11,000 MS + $4,500 MRA), will the combined MS and MRA be $352,000 and $507,000 in 2023 and 2033 respectively?
In conclusion, is it any wonder why so many Singaporeans may be thinking about migrating to New Zealand?
Photos courtesy of Wilfed Wong
Dear Oracle,
I ask you for the fourth time to answer my 2 questions below in simple English:
1. What is your solution?
2. Finally you said that I am wrong to assume that you are not a Singaporean and that you are a foreigner. Then what are you?
oh well i’m part of that crowd who puts in many working hours and etc.. yet i still enjoy my life in SG.. why buy a car if it’s expensive in the first place? Why jump for things that i cann’t afford. I booked a 200+ k flat and living in it just fine. without all the nightmare you described above. Singaporeans are such a greedy lot that will never be satisfied no matter where they go… live within your means and spend wisely.
Dear thealien, i agree with you that we should not be greedy and always live within out means and spend wisely. However, if you were to look at this article above closely and think for a moment, are you really getting what your money is worth?
Yes, we don’t have to buy a fanciful expensive car. Lets take a Toyota Altis for example, $70,000 (just a rough estimate). For $70,000 in australia you can get the same car, and at the same time have some remaining money for future maintenance works. Also, you said you bought a $200k plus flat and is living happily. For the same amount, you can get a bigger flat and live even happier don’t you think?
I feel that the author is just trying to state why are many Singaporeans migrating, he isnt describing nightmares that everyone faces.
To : khehBRYAN.
what u said makes sense there my friend :)
take me for example me selling my 5 room hdb at $330K
go Australia buy 350K and pay $100K first
balance 250K utang after 4year come back Cut my i/c take all my cpf and pay the remaining balance ($250K) i havent plus my wife money after she Cut her i/c so at the end we no utang for the rest of our life :)
if we stay here utang until 60 years…old
cheers!
To: T A Balasingam
Are you trying to flame or something? I don’t understand the intention of your questions. (Pardon me, i do not read all the articles here)
But if you are referring to the above article, i know where to get the answer for your 1st question.
Ans: Please read the title
We are creating an elitist society.
Go check out the latest intake of medical students, how many students are from HDB (the heartland), versus how many living in private properties, and how many PR or Foreigners.
School fees is about $20k per annum for medical students.
http://www.nus.edu.sg/registrar/edu/UG/fees.html
Notice how many good schools are located along the Bukit Timah belt.
Did your kid’s good A level results guaranteed a course of his/her choice in a local U?
We see but we choose to be blind.
Vote wisely before it is too late.
Cheers.
Hi Shortass,
Can you tel me which decent uni in the world don’t charge high fees and don’t choose the best applicants for their courses?
To all you guys think that they have a bad time in Singapore because everything is so exensive… think again. Nothing is free in this world. Of course, Australia is wonderful – such a big mass of land (nearly China’s size) but population of less than 20 million compared to China’s 1,300 million. With natural resources in abundance, they, of course, can have everything for nearly free. What about Singapopore, so small that it cannot be called a country but a city state, no natural resources and only people. So we have to work doubly hard. So bad luck if you are born here but what other choice? We have to accept working hard and more than other people in those rich resources country. I even heard the local office boy in Bahrein can air-travel by lst Class. Can we? Bear in mind, everytime our Government subsidize some poor chap here and there, not all come from the State’s investment profit, mainly they come from us – the tax payer. If any opposition says they are going to give you this free and that free if elected as Government, think hard. How long can our savings last. Investments that GIC or Temasek put in will bring in at most 5 to 10 percent per annum. The higher the return the more risky it will be. And when the world faces an economic crisis like last year, everything collapse. To put the blame on the Government on everything is not fair. You child cannot get into a local university, was it because you cant afford or his result wasnt good enough or he had selected a course of study which his grades could not put him through? Many taxi drivers and poorer citizens have seen their children graduated from universities despite the high costs. Admittedly some could not make it because of costs but in any society, it is impossible to have perfection. Universities need to maintain a certain standard and must attract some of the best lecturers using money and facilities must be top grade and all these will bring up costs. I am sure if only the Singapore Government has a gold mine like what the Malaysian Government has in Petronas (their oil company), things may work out better. But who knows… man is never satisfied..correct?
hi guys.
i been in Australia for almost 1 month here and loving every single day and planning to buy my own house during this six month time.
never in my life be so contented like this.
well i never regretted leaving singapore
the only regret is why i take so long to migrate out!
basically i am very happy here
cheers!!….cheers!!! and cheers!!
If there is anything we could learn from history, it’s the ills and moral values that are the innate nature of humans. Guys, great civilisations come and go. Even the greatest of all heroes had both succeeded and failed. If you have studied those great empires and their systems and framework, you would have noticed that they are a lot like what we have today, of course, minus those as a result of cultural, economical and technological advancement. Ancient virtuous emperors in China had the democracy system, whereby the throne successions were decided by merit of their successors and not by inheritance within the family. Even the Romans had a voting system and senate and the fact that the idea of democracy was already around during Socrates and Plato’s time. Great empires with its seemingly impeccable systems, finances and military strength appeared and disappeared.
Unarguably, it’s a result of the innate nature of humans. It’s the hungry people who show passion and determination. Discontentment and dissatisfaction creates dissidence and affluence fuels either greed or complacency. It’s a vicious cycle that will haunt the humans as long as we don’t do something about ourselves. We are always comparing ourselves with the privileged but never against those who are underprivileged. Always wanting more and better will inevitably lead to dissatisfaction. Three meals and a roof on top of you are bare minimum instead of something luxurious now. Sending your kids to the best school and having more in your bank account are your priority, and we will get it at all costs. Driving around in a sedan instead of taking a public transport is a must have.
I have tried very hard, but alas unable quote example of fellow Singaporean who died as a result of hunger, who did not receive financial assistance despite their genuinely dire conditions (no cash, no asset, handicapped). We are not living in a large country of abundance, and we have to fight on using what we have. What we have indeed gone wrong was the over emphasis on stringent meritocracy system without empathy, morality and humanity to go with it. We have trained the world first class academicians and scholars but not those of the likes of Bill Gates and Steve Jobs, who were both drop outs. It was either you study hard or you perish in this country that causes some of the unhappiness in society. Though these less fortunate group does have other avenues, It was the implementation and execution that had gone wrong in the process of streaming the less academically inclined students and to brand them as incapable, unintentionally, and channelling the best resources to the better group of students. The branding had gone wrong and it has been proven over and over again. We did not do enough to help these groups of people to grow in the areas they could excel in. I am seeing some changes to these now, although at a slower pace. Everyone who have put in effort should be fairly given another chance, including our leaders.
Really depends on what the person is looking for.
I’ve been living in Australia these last 9 years and I have come to realise Singapore is home not because of the passport I hold but because that is where I grew up in. All those little memories, all those little things.
To top it all off, the tax rate here is atrocious. =)
Yes. I detest the weather back on the little island but really… every country will have their warts if you are looking out for them… As for why everyone is flocking to New Zealand… have you heard of the old saying “The grass is always greener on the other side?” well you can laugh at the literal connotations..
they are just too poor, not everyone
If you look at things objectively and at the historical context, you have to give the LKY and the PAP credit for making Singapore what it is today. If you look at many countries in the world today, you will see that Singapore measures up quite well in a lot of ways and that’s even when you compare it to countries in the developed world.
I remember one American navy boy telling me,”Is Geylang your worst area? If you think this is bad, wait till you come to America, we’ll show you a bad area.”
You could say that the government has got about 75 percent of things right and you’d find that many will agree. You have foreigners agreeing and much as we may complain, we obviously agree with them enough to keep them in power.
However, it’s important that we harp on the 20-25 percent of things that the government has not got right because things like complacency set in and if you keep silent you actually play a part in letting things slip.
This article has hit a valid point. Singapore is exceedingly expensive for Singaporeans. If you’ve lived in Singapore, you can’t help but feel that Singapore is getting more expensive and wages are not rising to help you stay afloat let alone thrive. This situation is fine if you are young and healthy but this situation is hell if you are old and sick.
I am also feeling a disconnect between rhetoric and reality. In short we are becoming a state more interested in “wayang” than in reality. Biggest joke was Mas Selamat, where we had spent over a $100 million on anti-terrorist measures but couldn’t afford a simple window grill in a…secured facility. It took the Malaysian police force to do our job and that’s a joke when you consider how the powers that be run down Malaysia as a corrupt and rotten place – so if they are so bad how come they can the job we were supposed to do?
These days I just feel it in economics. We are supposedly experiencing 13-15 percent growth rate. However, I don’t see this on the ground. I get the usual “no-budget” comments when I meet clients and my current and potential clients are not mom-and-pop shops……
The other day, I read a headline on DBS’s second quarter earnings on ChannelNews Asia. It blared out that DBS has “record earnings.” Gives you the impression that the bank is booming. Later on I looked on Bloomberg and it turns out that DBS “Lost” money. OK, CNA did mention that DBS had lost money thanks to a one time charge it occurred in Hong Kong – but they buried that fact in the story.
This type of thing gets me wondering – Are we going against everything we pledged to be……
I am encouraged by the comments of Net, Chuck, Tang Li and so many earlier commentators. (See my earlier comments also.)
Many of our current national problems are a result of:
1. Total dependency on the PAP Government to meet our individual needs. Its socially abhorring to acknowledge that there are so many thousands of jobless Singaporeans who refuse to take up the more than available hundred thousand jobs such that PM Lee Hsien Loong has to forewarn that about 100,000 foreigners will be recruited in 2011. (I believe, PM Lee meant foreign talents as well as unskilled labourers fot the construction and other hazardous “dirty” industries.)
2. The unrelenting demand and attitude (which, in effect, is a social and individual illusion) of Singaporeans for the Government to provide a perfect country where everything works with clockwork predictability and efficiency. I am despaired by the howl of dissatisfied and critical Singaporeans and Permanent Residents over the recent floods in Orchard Road and Bukit Timah. Why cannot we learn from the stoic British who took their recent “worst floods in the past 100 years” in stride and got on with life. Here the Goverment is to be blamed partly for assuring Singaporeans over the past 45 years that it “has all the solutions to all our problems. Trust us!” mentality. The result is a mentality and behaviour like that of the animals in the Singapore Zoological Gardens where guaranteed security from predators, and high quality nutrition and health care assure a healthy and disease-free zoo environment. (Beloved Ah Meng, the national iconic orang utan lived beyond her expected life span but, up to her death, never experienced the joy of living a life of freedom!)
3. The relentless pursuit of being an economic “first” in, if possible, ALL global economic indicators. Never mind, if it has to be achieved with imported “below market price” foreign talents. (Look at the large number of imported foreign talents masquerading as Permanent Residents in the senior appointments of financial institutions. No prize, if you mention DBS.) Is it not ironical and internationally embarrassing that these “outstanding – par excellence foreign talents ” “labouring” in such senior appointments could not even take simple decisive action (like that taught by the Boy Scouts’ slogan – “Be Prepared”) to prevent in DBS a “total shut-down”, I dare say, a “total collapse” of its banking system. My tongue-in-cheek judgement is – “Great! Singapore has just achieved another “world first” in the global financial industry!)
What is needed, at societal level, is a decisive attitude of native and naturalised Singaporeans to take over the reins in all areas of the Government and society and, at individual level, to bite the bullet and become a society which is resilient, “bounce-back” and a “Oh heck! This is my life; this is my country and, damnit, I am going to make a difference for better for myself, my family and fellow Singaporeans”.
Finally, I have a message for the Permanent Singaporeans, be they of Chinese, Indian, Malay, American, Australian, Hong Konger, etc. origin. Do not delude yourself by claiming that “I am entitled to the just as many privileges of housing, education, medical, etc benefits that the native and naturalised Singaporeans are entitled to because I pay my personal income tax and GST.” If you love Singapore so zealously as you claim, then get your sons (Junior Permanent Residents) to do National Service when they attain their 18th year old birthday and, if you are past the enlistment age, be a volunteer in the Singapore Armed Forces, Singapore Civil Defence Force or other public service organisations. Only then will we, native and naturalised Singaporeans, accept you, shoulder-to-shoulder, in cohesive, united citizenry.
Singapore is not a perfect society and nation, it is a work-in-progress nation. So to all my fellow native and naturalised Singaporeans, I exhort, put your shoulder to build a nation and stop whining. To the Permanent Residents, if you truly believe in all your praises of Singapore, then discard your pretensions and become true-blue Singaporean citizens. To the foreigners, Singapore owes you nothing — not even a job when you are retrenched if your company re-locates outside Singapore.If you want your family and yourself to be cared for by the native and naturalised Singaporeans and their Government, apply to be a Permanent Resident and send your children to “national” Singaporean schools not the “international” schools that thrive on your foreign citizenship pariochalism.
Only the Die-hard Singaporeans can make Singapore prosper and progress because the world does not owe Singapore a living. The world never did! Look at the so-many extinct nations in History.
I am a native die-hard, true blue Singaporean.
@ Chuck
what u said its really true my dear friend :)
the grass is always greener out there and it took me years to realised it!!
after i moved to Australia everything had to start all over again and it is hard at first but things getting better everyday
i just bought a new car for just $20 k and u cant get it in singapore!!!
right now i am renting an apartment in the city and planning to buy a really small home in the suburb.
since u been lving in Australia for many many years care to share with me your experience here i would love to hear your story sir :)
hope to hear from u soon :)
cheers!
@amran
I was seconded to Sydney after working for a year in Singapore at a multinational. Life in Sydney started for me with a bang. My experience in melbourne (I did my postgrad studies there after graduating for NUS) have not prepared me for Sydney. to describe the place with an analogy… Sydney is like the New York of Australia. Only difference here is Sydney’s All Jersey. My first 2 years were hard as I bedded down. Then I found friends and mixed.
7 years down, I own an apartment in the city and no car as I never saw the need for it.
I had bought into the location to avoid commuting. It is very unpredictable given the state of it.
Taxes are a nightmare at close to 40%. I do not see my tax dollars working for me at all as I see potholes in the middle of the Sydney CBD.
On the back of that, I love the weather, the beautiful beaches and the vibrant nightlife. I suppose that’s what I’m paying those taxes for.
Politics? well I’m a realist. a Party that maintains fiscal and monetary stability allowing me to put food on the table, keep a roof over my head and still have some for recreation will get my vote. In Australia, there are 2 major political parties… But from where I stand, the capital – Canberra could be likened to a snakepit. Election day is a day where the ordinary Australian votes for the party that won’t damage the country as much as the last party did.=)
That said… Every country will have it’s good points and bad. If we look at the bad and ONLY the bad, then the country will be bad. The reverse is the same. So the country we are in is only as good as I want it to be.
Happy National Day All.
Happy National Day to all true blue Singaporeans. If you feel like singing keep singing and keep talking talking to people on your way. Which way only you know best. What you know may not be good for me and if I am good to you will you be good to me. Now the point here is as long as one feels being choked by this concrete jungle and confusing policies and mixed up and shook up directives where do one start.Just pack your bags and get your kicks on route 66. Hit the trail and find yourself. Peace N Love
@ chuck
wow u really make me more motivated lah with your experience yup it is hard in the begining but in the end it is really worth it!
for me now in melbourne well i can say abit like singapore but not as crowded hehehehee…
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yes the taxe is high but i look at a brighter side the school and medical is free so to me its ok:)
what u said its really ttrue we must make friend here so that not lonely so far i made 4 nice people from sg and all of them dont intent to go back to sg :)
so do u still holding on with the pink nric after so many year in Australia sir?
as for me cant wait to be Australian if can today i want to change :)
well i glad to know there is someone nice in sdney :)
cheers!
The tax in UK is as high as Australia! One of my colleagues earns about £1,300.00 a month, after paying National insurance, pension and tax; he has £900.00 left in his pocket every month. How is he going to survive in UK?
The UK government pay him child benefit, child tax credit and tax credit as he has 2 children of age 15 and 6, he receives £560.00 in return, coupled with free edn and medical benefits (free), he is able to live comfortably with a 3 room semi-detached home (out side London of course).
@Amran
Yes I’m holding on to my pink IC for now. A large part of my family is in Singapore.
I’m a simple man really. most important to me is Family. Where they are that’s where you’ll find me… until I have one of my own. =)
Re migrating. I can see why you do not wish to leave. Melbourne is to me quite possibly the best city in all of Australia to raise a family in.
Yes, Singapore is pretty expensive on housing and personal luxuries like cars… But like HK, there’s a land issue and this is expected.
I know the economist who recommended the ERP and the COE scheme… I believe these measures are what prevented traffic gridlocks seen in cities like Bangkok, HongKong and Sydney city. That said… when measures start hitting the wallet hard owing to demand and supply, payers like us would be more inclined to shoot first.=)
My stand is I think Singapore is comparable to the best in the world as I see foreigners migrating into Singapore.
But I have noticed the Singaporean migration policy will actually favour my giving up my Singaporean citizenship and then going back as “foreign” Talent and taking on Permanent Residency.
If there is One thing I’d like to see change in Singapore, it’s the mindset of the locals… everyone is so focussed with “doing their job” that they do not look at the flow on impact to what they do. This trait is seen also in the Singaporean leadership!
So… Minister for manpower… if you are reading this post… how’s this for a new slogan… “Think Global Act Local.”
=)
@chuck
yes what u said is really true sir:)
family is most important in our live :)
.
singapore now is like a sardin everywhere so pack trust me alot of thing is getting worsen everyday there :(
.
e.g housing getting more and more expensive and the size getting smaller too:(
everything is going UP,,UP,,and UP…and the pay stay stay like that :(
.
i do mixed around with the singaporean and the foreigner as for the friends they dont intent to be a sgrean as they find it in the long run it is really expensive to live in smart move hehehee.
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well those who convert to sgrean i know one of the my neighbour’s wife from china she still holding on with her china passport!! smart too :)
if u surf the singapore yahoo website everyday alot i mean alot of sgrean not happy with their life there really pity them.
.
.change in singapore i really feel it is impossible nothing in the universe can change even in 1 million years:(
still i see in the early 80′s to 89′s is the BEST years where everyone got jobs and got money in their saving cause everything is reasonable people respect one another and say hi in the lift and no discrimination in colour.
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family can have 2 or 3 or even 4 kids no money worries.
and now it is totally 360 deg turn i seen it all and experience it 1st hand.
u made the right choice to leave sg sir i strongly belive your next generation and their next generation will say thank u cause u really made a wise choice.
cheers!
I live in NZ as a PR for a few years now and I love this country. Yes, the tax is high here but to be fair, as a resident paying tax, there are benefits too. Also the interest rate is good, at least higher than SG. This being said, it is bad when one is borrowing money.
Is it a bed of roses – not entirely. For one as a minority, one may have to content with the discrimination >> http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10668193.
For me, I pursued a ‘dream’ and I now have an option and my option is NZ. When retirement comes, I may give up my SG citizenship since SG does not allow dual citizenship up till now, withdraw my CPF and hopefully lead a more fulfilling life in NZ :-).
Note: Of course, if one is rich rich (deliberately stated as such), anywhere in the world would probably be the same for him/her. Here I am talking about the average working folks like me.
It has been 4 month now since I move to Melbourne and I make friends already so not that lonely hehehee :)
life is getting better now just bought my 1st car brand new and cheap only $20K :)
next going to buy a small house hehehee…
Really thanks to all the good brothers here for your support and encouragement it makes me
stronger and motivated :)
and those who dream for a better life pls don’t give up find a way make your dream happen it gonna be hard at 1st but once u stable the feeling is out of this world lah!!!!
Cheers!
Hi people out there… thanks for your sharing. I’ve been searching for answers since I came back from a vacation from Perth on 28Aug2010. I cant stop thinking of the possibility of migrating there with my family. I lead a very hectic lifestyle juggling with 2 young girls age 3 and 6. I work from 8am-6pm daily and then 8pm-11pm…on every other day. Besides that I am also on a part time diploma course and will graduate in this coming Dec. I enjoyed the wonderful winter in Perth and came to realise what kind of life I am actually living in. To many Singaporean, this kind of life is NORMAL.
Singaporean around me of my age seems to be doing the same. Most of them… working very hard trying to meet both ends. Children under stress with their peers. What to do? We are a country without natural resources and its all us which makes Singapore so successful. People like me of the average would need to work double harder, otherwise would be kicked out of the game. I have survived through so many rounds of retrenchment of an MNC, from 12,000 to 2999 employees worldwide. This didnt leave behind a great success for me… but worked like hell.
Please do show me some light if we could make a living in Perth for Diploma holders out of a single income.
Thanks people!
@ Desperate
hi sir I do understand how u really feel yes Pert is the best place in Australia and actually that’s was the place me and my wife wanted to move
But unfortunatly there was no job for us there and we ended in Melbourne and guess what we never been to Melbourne before and yet we were so desperate to leave singapore!!
Well u must find out what job they require there before u do anything for example : nursing, police these two are one of the job they want.
Or u can go to this migration agency where I apply for our Australian PR from.
Go to their website and do the free assesment to see if u are aligible or not.
I really hope this help sir
http://www.aumigrate.com/
If u have any more Q u can always ask I tell u what I know alright
takecare sir
Dear Desperate FTWM
I used to work quite a fair bit in Western Australia and Northern Territory when I was in the Oil & Gas industry in the 1980s. I can’t say I know about the place well as I have not lived there. I remembered it was hot in summer, lots of flies that it was once a joke that one must have eaten over 100 flies before they can become a resident – the flies actually would fly into your mouth when you are speaking and one did to me :-(.
What is suggested by Amran to check it out and do more homework on it is good. It is important as immigration especially when you have family can be ‘worse than a divorce’. My ex-boss who is British once said that. In his work, he moved from HK to SG and finally retired in NZ and his Asian wife left him. In places like HK and SG, the folks there are really ‘spoilt’ for choices and convenience. I speak for NZ (only) and I believe it applies somewhat for Perth and in countries that are big and you have no city-type services like SG or HK, you need to be mentally prepared to DIY in terms of cooking, driving around, etc. There is also a need for you to be secured with a job in the new place as in a new country, you have to consider expenses such as rental, medical, car, living expenses, etc. There is a distinct difference between a PR and a work permit holder as local services (e.g. medical) are not necessarily free or less expensive for work permit holder. Very importantly, your wife must share the spirit of adaptation as the initial stage can be shocking with denial, negativeness and resistance and this is not what you want to go through.
Yes, the grass always looks greener over the other side of the fence hence you need to be prepared with research and a plan to ensure it is greener indeed. Going for holiday and liking a place is different from actually staying in it, living there and settling in (with a source of income). Do not get me wrong – I am not discouraging you – I am only giving you another perspective to consider so you are mentally prepared before uprooting yourself and your family. Young children adjust very well … the adults are the one who may resist.
Good luck and I wish you the very best.
i really feel that it is good to think of migrating to a better country for the our sake and most importanly for our children and their children sake :)
let me tell u a little secret my inlaw dosent know that we plan to migrate to Australia we had no choice to tell them a lie.
we told them we going to work there four 4 years and after that yes we will come back home ( to cut our ic hehehehee)
and they dont even know that we already sold our hdb flat i know it is hard thing to do lying to parents like that but i got no choice i really dont want my children to suffer.
i hope after i bought a house there and invite my inlaw stay with us i really hope they like the simple life here and dicide t stay with us as by then i might have our 1st baby too :)
if they like it here i go to the next step try to persuade them to give up their ic take all their cpf and buy a house of their own no stress life happily here
i always think for a brighter future for people around me too :)
always think what is best for your family
to suffer or have a meaninful life
cheers :)
Good article, much better than what one tends to read in the Temasek Review.
But what irony, to read about discrimination against foreigners after immigrating to another country! Sweet sweet irony. I stayed overseas half of my life and with every intention to do so soon but I hope fellow Singaporeans appreciate the global connection of contemporary living and stop discriminating foreigners in our tiny city state. When overseas, it is disconcerting to be blamed for everything like increasing the price of houses and taking away their jobs but I am beginning to understand the easy rationale of blaming foreigners for everything – we are doing it in Singapore.
And more irony to know that many of us when we are overseas re-discovered fellow Singaporeans! So, can we blame foreigners for prefering to stick to their own group when they moved to Singapore?
My wifey and I are making plans to move, this time permanently and our first step – simplify our life. Make leaving this wonderful albeit stressful city-state as painless as possible.
Dear ‘I love Irony’
Can’t agree with you more.
I had planned way in advance for my move and thankfully the transition was somewhat ‘simple’. Life is great – fresh air, cool weather, big space and a reasonably comfortable lifestyle.
I kept my HDB flat in Singapore as my now 17-1/2 years old son has to go back to serve National service when he finishes High School at the end of 2011 …. :-(. I will give the part on having to put up a bond for him a miss here :-(((.
Wish you luck.
it is a waste time to serve the NS really
that 1 1/2 year can do further studies :)
thats is one of the reason me and my wife tahan not to have babies in sg if not (boy) must serve ns and hold pink ic which i really dont feel good about it.
i belive alot more singaporean the younger generation will migrate out of singapore especially those who studies oversea can they can see the diff between
meaningful life and suffering life :)
those u are thinking of migratng pls ask alot of question here as there alot of us here willing to share infomation and experieaces so that the journey u take wont be too hard :)
those who want to migrate to Australia the best place is :
1- Perth – population 1-5 million very super comfortable no stress best place to grow old(too bad no job for my wife if not we migrate there already) the downside is there not much job if u get one consider jackport!
2- Melbourne – population i think 4++ million and is getting more. city crowded like sg but still comfortable and there alot of jobs here but u must apply many many companycause most of them will ask u “u got work experience working in Australia?” it is bit hard to find job here too thats why MUST secure a job before coming here here there train always got sit no need to rush and the cars here are cheap! oh ya the rental here abit expensive too.(that is where we live now )
Adelaide – hmmm super slow good for 60years and above
sdney- the city look and feel like our suntec city super crowded! and fast pace!
it is a good place for youngsters. :)
there rest of Australia state never been yet so no comman :)
cheers!
Hi Amran,
Personally,I can’t say it was a complete waste of time to serve National Service – for me it was 2.5 years. There are reasons why we needed to and being a Singaporean I respect that. I do not find this bond for my son amusing though.
I can’t say Singapore is all that bad … In my numerous years of travel and working overseas, there are many worse places. At the end, it is what you and I choose to do or go and to make the best out of that decision.
@ sg kiwi,
I do agree with u ns is to protect the country but I totally disagree with u the way ns conduct the training base on my personal experience
cheers! :)
Hi Amran
No worries. We all have our views otherwise if we all have the same viewpoint of things, life can be quite boring ;-).
Cheers
Hey guys @ SG-Kiwi & Amran
Thank you very much for your opinion and suggestion. Hehe..actually im the desperate wifey.. Full-Time-Working-Mum. Hubby is an Architectural Draughtsman and myself an Accountant. But both holds only a Diploma, not degree. Im lucky to have 2 girls, which NS will not be a prob to me.
I guess the difficult part would be getting approve for PR and finding a job.
Im still working on trying to convince my hubby on this
Cheers!
Hi Desperate FTWM,
I understand the difficulties. My wife and I left Spore 3 years to New Zealand. We don’t have a degree but Diploma but manage to get a job in New Zealand and left Spore to apply our work VISA in NZ.
I know a consultant in NZ. They don’t charge any fee as they are job consultant look for suitable candidate for big company firm in NZ. I guess they took their commission from the company after their recommendation is successful.
If you need help, let me know….( I am not agent, I just want to offer help for fellow Sporean)
@ Desperate FTWM,
there always a first step for everything :)
To convince your hubby to migrate to me very easy lah it took me 2 years to convince my lovely wife to migrate hehehee :)
just tell him the truth e.g below u can use it :)
1) can we survive when we old in sg?
2) medical is going to be very expensive infuture yes we have medisave but how long can it last? endup u have to sell your only house u have just to pay the medical and that is one of u are sick and what it 2 of u sick in future??
the BILLS wil go down to your two girls :( and sg is getting more and more cramp
think of your two girls future do they have better chance oversea or in sg which i lost faith with :)
i know in Australia some of the benefit is :
1. free madical
2. free school
3. got pension
these 3 benefit is more then enough to show how their goverment care for the people :)
i feel New Zealand is better cause they really want singaporean that a plus :)
we are very lucky to have Mr thelight as he already moved there :)
to Mr thelight how much is the house there is it very expensive?
here in Melbourne in the suburd 4room house cost about 450K
dear Desperate FTWM ask as much info u want from us we will tell u what we know ok dun be shy.
u have to do alot of reseach on this it is a big thing trust me.
cheers!
Hi Amran, Desperate FTWM
For price of housing in NZ, you can refer to this link.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-me-property/index.htm
Cheers
@ SG-Kiwi
will look at it sir :)
thanks :)
Hi Desperate FTWM,
Note: I sent this message out earlier and it seems to be under evaluation by the moderator … maybe they do not like some things I wrote.
A couple of websites you can look for jobs in NZ are:
- http://www.seek.co.nz/
- http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-me-jobs/index.htm
For me, I applied directly through NZ Immigration http://www.immigration.govt.nz/ in Oct 2004 based on IT skills and was given a work-to-residence visa in 2006. I subsequent moved there in Sep-2007 with a job. My wife and son moved to NZ in Oct-2008.
The immigration rules have changed now. For my application, they gave me 2 years to find a job and move to NZ and the visa was good for multiple trips. It is now a single-trip visa and only three months to move to NZ and then 9 months on entry to get a job. At least with this work visa, one can land himself/herself any job, albeit a temporary one.
A good friend of mine was awarded this visa but he is not going because he held the attitude that ‘No job, no go’. I tried to explain to him that the economy is NZ is bad now and job seeking especially from remotely is not easy at this time and not something that can happen within three months but he is not changing his mind. It is a pity that he is giving up without even trying hard and even though I offered to him to stay at my house until he found a job. He has till 08 Oct 2010 to set foot in NZ and I believe it is too late now. I just hope he will not live to regret his non-action now and play-safe approach.
I think you may want to get the contact from ‘thelight’ and explore that avenue in parallel as without a work-visa, you are not allowed to work in NZ if this is where you are exploring to go.
I mentioned before too, it is a BIG step/decision to uproot oneself to go live/work in another country and not an easy one especially in the beginning. Young children will manage to adapt and make new friends …. it is the adult to overcome whatever obstacles to realise his/her dream, if I may describe it that way.
Good luck.
To Amran,
The housing in Auckland where I stay is quite expensive now. 4bedroom (192m2) with 400m2 land is approx. NZ$ 500K & above.
Thank you.
Hi thelight, Desperate FTWM
Housing in Auckland is more expensive than other NZ cities (with maybe the exception of Queenstown/Otago) but the job opportunity in Auckland will be far better than where I live – Napier.
@ thelight,
wah so expensive lah
Amran
You need to also consider the exchange rate to SGD. Also it depends on location … there are good areas and not so good ones.
Cheers
HI Amran,
The location I am staying is near to the best school and Asia supermarket, that why it is expensive. Of course area that is not good, you can still buy at $300K plus…
My HDB cost in AMK 3 room flat (68m2) cost $300K vs (400m2) at $550K. Ha ha which is more expensive?
@ SG-Kiwi & thelight,
U guys are the lucky one who got a landed property cause with that type of prorice it is very impossible to get s landed property in sg.
I know a condo worth $800,000 at woodland cause my friend live in it. It is the size of 3room hdb flat.
For me I just went to see the land they going to built my house last Saturday and I can see only the structure heheheee
I guess it will be completed next year April really looking forward to it :)
thanks for sharing guys :)
Hi thelight
May I know which area you are in – Northshore?
Thanks
Hi,
I am Currently working in Singapore as Software Engineer. Can any one here can advice which migration agent in SG is reliable and please share your migration process as in SKilled Migrant.
hi Freddie,
there is alot of migration agent in sg.
Or u can go to this migration agency where I apply for our Australian PR from.
Go to their website and do the free assesment to see if u are aligible or not.
I really hope this help sir
http://www.aumigrate.com/
it took us 1year to get the PR and cost us around $8000 can pay by installment
now have to sit for exam u must pass them.
Hi Freddie
For me, I applied directly with the Immigration Services of NZ (http://www.immigration.govt.nz). In all it cost me a few thousands $$ for the fees, medical check ups, police reports, etc ….. maybe about $2000 for the family (me, wife and son). That was 2004-2006 prices.
Good luck.
Dear Desperate FTWM
Stumbled on this URL – you may wish to explore >> http://www.wynyardwood.co.nz/specialist-areas/immigration/
Cheers