Comments on: Practices surrounding the death penalty for drugs troubling

By: George

George — Mon, 01 Mar 2010 07:28:02 +0000

“Perhaps increasing levels of technology and police competence have made enforcement more effective and it is this which has deterred potential offenders. It is at least a significant possibility that the drug figures would similarly not have been altered for the worse had the death penalty been discretionary. ”
Can someone with the nec data produce a graph to show how the introduction of the death penalty for drugs has affected the number of arrests for drug trafficking say starting 10 years BEFORE the death law right to the present? Is there a deterrent effect? By how much?
Can someone also produce a graph correlating the number of trafficking arrests with poppy harvests at the SEA drug growing triangle and elsewhere (Afghanistan for example).

By: Do Re Mi

Do Re Mi — Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:16:22 +0000

ahaha this discussion is actually quite tiring…Anyway, whether I support the moratorium or not, since TOC has already made the call, I hope the moratorium actually lives up to what it promises.

At least after it has ran its course, the public would have a greater awareness about the MDP with regards to Drug Trafficking in Singapore. So here’s to its success.

By: Do Re Mi

Do Re Mi — Sat, 27 Feb 2010 10:11:21 +0000

@Mohan:

Yes, its my mistake. He actually makes this point to question the conviction of the government’s stand in a positive relationship b/w the death penalty and its associated deterrent effect. Perhaps this is why an independent study should be conducted to determine the relationship, if any.

Also, I am still unconvinced about the supposed benefits that TOC’s moratorium will bring. Having a moratorium in place of detailed studies will not guarantee a well-informed debate.

By: Mohan

Mohan — Sat, 27 Feb 2010 03:28:31 +0000

@Do Re Mi:

The sub-text of Prof Hor’s message is that the government can and should have proper statistics by now, but the fact that they have not collected such statistics or have not made them available to the public is reasonable grounds for suspecting that the statistics may not be favourable to the government’s position.

By: Do Re Mi

Do Re Mi — Sat, 27 Feb 2010 00:34:28 +0000

Also, Prof Hor goes on to argue against the perceived deterrence effect only after admitting that he ‘cannot hope to resolve the dispute between retentionists and abolitionists in any decisive manner.’ Rather, he tries to ‘initiate a dispassionate discourse in Singapore and amongst those with a stake in what happens in Singapore, as to whether our present death penalty practices are the best we can do’.

This clearly shows that the entire paper is argued on the government’s own terms, where ‘this kind of crude data is often trotted out in support of the deterrence orthodoxy in Singapore’, and as what he has admitted, ‘ is not by any means a substitute for sound and sophisticated statistical analysis of deterrence’, which we currently lack a study for.

In fact, according to Prof Hor, Singapore ‘has had more than a century of experience and data, it is compact, it is efficient, it can well afford the resources required for such studies. Yet, decent published statistical studies are rarer than kidnapping. It might be that there are internal studies, but it would be odd that if they exist…’

I also refer to your attention to Para 27 of ‘Death, Drugs, Murder and the Constitution, Hor, 2010′ for further reading.

By: Do Re Mi

Do Re Mi — Sat, 27 Feb 2010 00:25:18 +0000

This article is an almost complete lift of Death, Drug, Murder and the Constitution, Hor, 2010. By publishing ‘excerpts’ from Hor, 2010, it is a selective misrepresentation of Hor’s argument.

‘Our task is to ask if there has indeed been a significant deterrence of drug offending occasioned by the death penalty.’ and ‘It appears that the belief in the efficacy of the death penalty is implicit, anecdotal and instinctive, rather than one which is based on any sophisticated analysis of empirical data.’ is exactly why we need to see a clear relationship b/w MDP and Drug Trafficking in Singapore.

This is not a relationship that can be easily and simply assumed.

By: Viva Democracy

Viva Democracy — Fri, 26 Feb 2010 21:44:42 +0000

I remember when Ong Teng Chong was around, he exercised his right of presidential pardon. Look at the present. There is NO PARDON. I guess good guys won’t last in MIW camp. They still got the cheek to say “if you’re good, join us.” Which good guy wanna join them? They rather join the the opposition!