Comments on: The final nail in the “HDB affordability” coffin? http://theonlinecitizen.com/2010/02/the-final-nail-in-the-hdb-affordability-coffin/ a community of Singaporeans Fri, 10 Feb 2012 10:19:51 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: “You’re too old, you cannot work!” | The Online Citizen http://theonlinecitizen.com/2010/02/the-final-nail-in-the-hdb-affordability-coffin/comment-page-3/#comment-170492 “You’re too old, you cannot work!” | The Online Citizen Wed, 08 Dec 2010 03:29:10 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=19860#comment-170492 [...] and “The final nail in the HDB affordability coffin” [...] [...] and “The final nail in the HDB affordability coffin” [...]

]]> By: Sand http://theonlinecitizen.com/2010/02/the-final-nail-in-the-hdb-affordability-coffin/comment-page-3/#comment-138886 Sand Mon, 05 Apr 2010 16:27:36 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=19860#comment-138886 Ray, you have spoken out clear and loud what I think about this whole singapore policies bullshit thing.  My fiance and I are planning to get married but were unable to get the TWO BTOs that were launched in our neighbourhood - and we cannot afford a resale flat. So, we are left with the only option - wait. My Fiance is already in his mid-thirties and from the speed this whole thing is going, by the time we got a flat, i don't think we would even want a kid because we will be worried if we can raise the child given the age and financial situation we are in - we need to plan for retirement too. Can't tell you guys more how frustrated i feel now. mon, you are right. Ask them to start the election, i too have a surprise for them. Ray, you have spoken out clear and loud what I think about this whole singapore policies bullshit thing.  My fiance and I are planning to get married but were unable to get the TWO BTOs that were launched in our neighbourhood – and we cannot afford a resale flat.

So, we are left with the only option – wait. My Fiance is already in his mid-thirties and from the speed this whole thing is going, by the time we got a flat, i don’t think we would even want a kid because we will be worried if we can raise the child given the age and financial situation we are in – we need to plan for retirement too. Can’t tell you guys more how frustrated i feel now.

mon, you are right. Ask them to start the election, i too have a surprise for them.

]]> By: PeterC http://theonlinecitizen.com/2010/02/the-final-nail-in-the-hdb-affordability-coffin/comment-page-3/#comment-137523 PeterC Mon, 29 Mar 2010 02:39:32 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=19860#comment-137523 Singapore I believe model itself to early Greek and Chinese ruling ELITES. Some leaders had made it known their strong inclination towards these early Civilization. PLATO&CONFUCIOS  come to mind immediately. Just remember those were the days the ELITES live in splendor with courtyard houses filled with maids  in attendance and slaves who are eternally grateful for the privilege to slave for these ELITES. DOES IT SOUND FAMILIAR????????   Singapore I believe model itself to early Greek and Chinese ruling ELITES. Some leaders had made it known their strong inclination towards these early Civilization. PLATO&CONFUCIOS  come to mind immediately.
Just remember those were the days the ELITES live in splendor with courtyard houses filled with maids  in attendance and slaves who are eternally grateful for the privilege to slave for these ELITES.
DOES IT SOUND FAMILIAR????????
 

]]> By: rwkc http://theonlinecitizen.com/2010/02/the-final-nail-in-the-hdb-affordability-coffin/comment-page-3/#comment-137514 rwkc Mon, 29 Mar 2010 01:35:45 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=19860#comment-137514 Excellent observation, Ray. I fully agree with you. This government needs to wake up from its slumber or be removed, pronto. Excellent observation, Ray.

I fully agree with you.

This government needs to wake up from its slumber or be removed, pronto.

]]> By: Ray http://theonlinecitizen.com/2010/02/the-final-nail-in-the-hdb-affordability-coffin/comment-page-3/#comment-137353 Ray Sun, 28 Mar 2010 08:21:36 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=19860#comment-137353 It seems funny to me that this feedback loop of: rising cost of living = decreasing birth rate is not recognised for what it is.  People do act rationally in this instance.  People will not start families if they feel any of the following: 1.  Economic instability (includes potential to lose their jobs, general economic climate, recession) 2.  Increased cost of living which has outpaced their real wages (this includes the big ticket purchases like housing, transportation) 3.  Increased competition for resources (this includes public infrastructure like education, transport, employment, medical, housing) 4.  Lack of representation at the popular and political realm (political participation and media)   It seems really clear to me that these reasons contribute on a macro scale as to why people don't set up families as early, or have as many children as needed.  We have to take this in a global perspective as well.  With few exceptions, most "developed societies" have decreasing child fertility rates.  It's a reflection of the larger trends and issues associated with living in urban, relatively crowded and affluent conditions.  The countries which buck the trend are those countries which augment their population growth through immigration.  And the USA and Australia are 2 prime examples of that.   I am not convinced that these models are reproduce-able in Singapore as the fundamentals of our city state are different.  We already have one of the world's highest population densities.  We have no more space for expansion.  We have no natural resources, and no hinterland.   I find it interesting that this decision to increase the population to 6 million was taken by the government without consultation with the people.  We should seek that the government address this.  We need dialogue on this policy.  The government alleges that we would not be able to increase or maintain our growth rates without an increase in population.  That needs to be challenged. With the corresponding rise in cost of living, the median for the middle class has actually shifted downwards (UBS study shows that real wages has decreased in recent years).  The government wants "higher productivity" and for citizens to compete with FTs who are willing to work for "less".  It contributes to decrease the standard of living for citizens.  If people are working harder, or longer... why would they be optimistic about their futures and their families? "You want me to pay more for everything, work harder, work more, work for longer, and have less job security, compete with more people for less of everything, stay in a smaller, more expensive flat that is further away, and have more children?  And you can't understand why I don't want to have more children?" When i think about it, it's funny isn't it?  a little like a tragi-comedy.   ray   It seems funny to me that this feedback loop of: rising cost of living = decreasing birth rate is not recognised for what it is.  People do act rationally in this instance.  People will not start families if they feel any of the following:
1.  Economic instability (includes potential to lose their jobs, general economic climate, recession)
2.  Increased cost of living which has outpaced their real wages (this includes the big ticket purchases like housing, transportation)
3.  Increased competition for resources (this includes public infrastructure like education, transport, employment, medical, housing)
4.  Lack of representation at the popular and political realm (political participation and media)
 
It seems really clear to me that these reasons contribute on a macro scale as to why people don’t set up families as early, or have as many children as needed.  We have to take this in a global perspective as well.  With few exceptions, most “developed societies” have decreasing child fertility rates.  It’s a reflection of the larger trends and issues associated with living in urban, relatively crowded and affluent conditions.  The countries which buck the trend are those countries which augment their population growth through immigration.  And the USA and Australia are 2 prime examples of that.
 
I am not convinced that these models are reproduce-able in Singapore as the fundamentals of our city state are different.  We already have one of the world’s highest population densities.  We have no more space for expansion.  We have no natural resources, and no hinterland.
 
I find it interesting that this decision to increase the population to 6 million was taken by the government without consultation with the people.  We should seek that the government address this.  We need dialogue on this policy.  The government alleges that we would not be able to increase or maintain our growth rates without an increase in population.  That needs to be challenged.
With the corresponding rise in cost of living, the median for the middle class has actually shifted downwards (UBS study shows that real wages has decreased in recent years).  The government wants “higher productivity” and for citizens to compete with FTs who are willing to work for “less”.  It contributes to decrease the standard of living for citizens.  If people are working harder, or longer… why would they be optimistic about their futures and their families?
“You want me to pay more for everything, work harder, work more, work for longer, and have less job security, compete with more people for less of everything, stay in a smaller, more expensive flat that is further away, and have more children?  And you can’t understand why I don’t want to have more children?”
When i think about it, it’s funny isn’t it?  a little like a tragi-comedy.
 
ray
 

]]> By: hoddioo http://theonlinecitizen.com/2010/02/the-final-nail-in-the-hdb-affordability-coffin/comment-page-3/#comment-133637 hoddioo Wed, 10 Mar 2010 05:49:40 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=19860#comment-133637 reduce the HDB lease from 99 years to 50 years for peasants.. then more peasants can own pigeon holes to live in reduce the HDB lease from 99 years to 50 years for peasants.. then more peasants can own pigeon holes to live in

]]> By: Jeremy Tan http://theonlinecitizen.com/2010/02/the-final-nail-in-the-hdb-affordability-coffin/comment-page-3/#comment-132095 Jeremy Tan Mon, 01 Mar 2010 04:34:54 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=19860#comment-132095 so the family has no CPF contributions? How do u calculate the monthly installments? so the family has no CPF contributions? How do u calculate the monthly installments?

]]> By: romaniandevil http://theonlinecitizen.com/2010/02/the-final-nail-in-the-hdb-affordability-coffin/comment-page-3/#comment-131779 romaniandevil Sat, 27 Feb 2010 01:58:12 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=19860#comment-131779 [i]PAP Douchebag Mr Mah has been a minister for such a long time, surely he is good at his job.[/i] your father has been a good father to you for such a long long time..sureLEE he is good in his duties to manage his savin whether present or retired..how come the prime minister and his laulee father must kaypoed and enforced the law that YOUR father cannot control his owned retirement funds/savins? why? your father frequent bataam often? than again you might NOT have a father to start with.......... [i]PAP Douchebag
Mr Mah has been a minister for such a long time, surely he is good at his job.[/i]
your father has been a good father to you for such a long long time..sureLEE he is good in his duties to manage his savin whether present or retired..how come the prime minister and his laulee father must kaypoed and enforced the law that YOUR father cannot control his owned retirement funds/savins?
why? your father frequent bataam often? than again you might NOT have a father to start with……….

]]> By: romaniandevil http://theonlinecitizen.com/2010/02/the-final-nail-in-the-hdb-affordability-coffin/comment-page-3/#comment-131778 romaniandevil Sat, 27 Feb 2010 01:53:39 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=19860#comment-131778 wah! yesterday just check ntuc bargains.. 2 can of baby milk powder as designated by the birth ministry hit $106++..wah lau..would the birth ministry cared to share how many can of milk powder 1 baby consumed in 1 month? the last ime when my nephew was born his S26 milk powder cost $26/can nia... wah! yesterday just check ntuc bargains.. 2 can of baby milk powder as designated by the birth ministry hit $106++..wah lau..would the birth ministry cared to share how many can of milk powder 1 baby consumed in 1 month? the last ime when my nephew was born his S26 milk powder cost $26/can nia…

]]> By: ApApA http://theonlinecitizen.com/2010/02/the-final-nail-in-the-hdb-affordability-coffin/comment-page-3/#comment-131698 ApApA Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:44:57 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=19860#comment-131698 Baby bonus policy... PAP failed, utterly. The problem can only be solved by farmers, not scholars.  Baby bonus policy… PAP failed, utterly.

The problem can only be solved by farmers, not scholars. 

]]> By: doremon http://theonlinecitizen.com/2010/02/the-final-nail-in-the-hdb-affordability-coffin/comment-page-3/#comment-131682 doremon Fri, 26 Feb 2010 08:35:47 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=19860#comment-131682 For the declining birth rate, I  hope that the system be changed to better cater for the young couples longing to have a nest in order to support the birth rate of Singapore. First, where to look for a big sum of cash to pay for ever increasing cov to for those lucky generations who had secured their flats so cheap few decades back and now wanting to sell to the poor young couples who needed to pay for many things eg. wedding, renovation for house and many things, to facilitate setting up a family. So where do we still have the extra cash for the housing. In the end, it’s the second time buyer or so called investors who have the means to secure the resale flats. So, this is a major factor that caused the plans of setting up family in Singapore to be pushed back many years.  It is a pity that the govt did not solve this issue that affects the birth rate of Singapore. We do need good policies to improve the life in Singapore, but we as Singaporeans need a much capable government who can look into rising issues fast and create and implement changing policies in this fast changing world.  The government should be resilient to analyze issues deeply and change their policies with the changing needs. One of them is to provide solutions to rising cov.  I mean real solution; not, giving subsidies interms cpf grant; not, taxing people when flats are sold within 1 year; not, reducing the loan amount to 80%; not, hdb property tax; not, increasing BTO flats only when people beg for it; not, giving priority to first timers but giving assured flats to people who are really in need to set up a family and give the nation a boost on its declining population! And for the BTO, it does not work as the system requires couples to delay starting a family.  Since we have the ethnic quota, what about a resale quota on sellers selling to second timers or PRs so that the flats are more reachable by the first timers who want to set up their family fast? What about allowing hdb grant to pay for cov? What about giving incentives to sellers who sell their flats to first timers? There are many solutions to tackle these issues, it really depend on the capability of a good government. For the declining birth rate, I  hope that the system be changed to better cater for the young couples longing to have a nest in order to support the birth rate of Singapore. First, where to look for a big sum of cash to pay for ever increasing cov to for those lucky generations who had secured their flats so cheap few decades back and now wanting to sell to the poor young couples who needed to pay for many things eg. wedding, renovation for house and many things, to facilitate setting up a family. So where do we still have the extra cash for the housing. In the end, it’s the second time buyer or so called investors who have the means to secure the resale flats. So, this is a major factor that caused the plans of setting up family in Singapore to be pushed back many years.  It is a pity that the govt did not solve this issue that affects the birth rate of Singapore. We do need good policies to improve the life in Singapore, but we as Singaporeans need a much capable government who can look into rising issues fast and create and implement changing policies in this fast changing world.  The government should be resilient to analyze issues deeply and change their policies with the changing needs. One of them is to provide solutions to rising cov.  I mean real solution; not, giving subsidies interms cpf grant; not, taxing people when flats are sold within 1 year; not, reducing the loan amount to 80%; not, hdb property tax; not, increasing BTO flats only when people beg for it; not, giving priority to first timers but giving assured flats to people who are really in need to set up a family and give the nation a boost on its declining population! And for the BTO, it does not work as the system requires couples to delay starting a family.  Since we have the ethnic quota, what about a resale quota on sellers selling to second timers or PRs so that the flats are more reachable by the first timers who want to set up their family fast? What about allowing hdb grant to pay for cov? What about giving incentives to sellers who sell their flats to first timers? There are many solutions to tackle these issues, it really depend on the capability of a good government.

]]> By: mon http://theonlinecitizen.com/2010/02/the-final-nail-in-the-hdb-affordability-coffin/comment-page-3/#comment-131409 mon Wed, 24 Feb 2010 20:56:38 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=19860#comment-131409 //PAP Douchebag Why don't you ask him to start the election immediately? We have a surprise for him. //PAP Douchebag
Why don’t you ask him to start the election immediately?
We have a surprise for him.

]]> By: PAP Douchebag http://theonlinecitizen.com/2010/02/the-final-nail-in-the-hdb-affordability-coffin/comment-page-3/#comment-131403 PAP Douchebag Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:54:45 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=19860#comment-131403 Mah Bow Tan says HDB flats are affordable, so it must be true. Why can't you whining ingrates just trust your PAP elites? Mr Mah has been a minister for such a long time, surely he is good at his job. Stop being babies and support the PAP. Give your moral support/votes to Mah Bow Tan. We Singaporeans are blessed to have him, the God of Fortune incarnate, bestow upon us the golden showers of prosperity in a time of economic uncertainty. Mah Bow Tan says HDB flats are affordable, so it must be true. Why can’t you whining ingrates just trust your PAP elites? Mr Mah has been a minister for such a long time, surely he is good at his job.

Stop being babies and support the PAP. Give your moral support/votes to Mah Bow Tan. We Singaporeans are blessed to have him, the God of Fortune incarnate, bestow upon us the golden showers of prosperity in a time of economic uncertainty.

]]> By: Growingpains http://theonlinecitizen.com/2010/02/the-final-nail-in-the-hdb-affordability-coffin/comment-page-3/#comment-131368 Growingpains Wed, 24 Feb 2010 14:23:49 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=19860#comment-131368 HDB can simply make it tough on the subletting rules such that the owner will not buy the so-called 'subsidized' flat as a money making instrument for rental. I am in the real estate industry and there are many CPF rich singles cashing in on the rental HDB flat they own while still living with their parents. HDB needs to minimize abuse on the 'subsidized' flat by these owners and maintain the low price for these 'subsidized' flat to make them affordable to citizens. HDB can simply make it tough on the subletting rules such that the owner will not buy the so-called ‘subsidized’ flat as a money making instrument for rental.
I am in the real estate industry and there are many CPF rich singles cashing in on the rental HDB flat they own while still living with their parents.
HDB needs to minimize abuse on the ‘subsidized’ flat by these owners and maintain the low price for these ‘subsidized’ flat to make them affordable to citizens.

]]> By: DaffyDuck http://theonlinecitizen.com/2010/02/the-final-nail-in-the-hdb-affordability-coffin/comment-page-3/#comment-131012 DaffyDuck Mon, 22 Feb 2010 04:48:12 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=19860#comment-131012 I decided to not vote for PAP in this election because LKY called me "daft". I decided to not vote for PAP in this election because LKY called me “daft”.

]]> By: SpursHide http://theonlinecitizen.com/2010/02/the-final-nail-in-the-hdb-affordability-coffin/comment-page-2/#comment-131010 SpursHide Mon, 22 Feb 2010 04:43:00 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=19860#comment-131010 This is a reply to Whyso. I work and live in Tokyo. No Tokyoites want to stay in Ginza 'cos it's noisy and the air is unclean. Second, there are a lot of lights around in the city and it disturbs your sleep. In Japan, they are ample choices for housing. The key difference is that you need to pump in some key money to the landlord if you want to rent an apartment. There are many singles in Japan, so there are many apartments for singles that comes with a small balcony and LAN internet. There are also cheap houses in the suburbs and it is not far to take the JR line to work. It takes me 45 mins to get to Tachikawa, 45 mins to Shinjuku. If you want even cheaper housing, you could always go to the countryside and take is easy for your old age. Clean air and peaceful surroundings and with Yahoo Broadband services, no worries. In Singapore, ...[fill in the blanks] This is a reply to Whyso.

I work and live in Tokyo. No Tokyoites want to stay in Ginza ‘cos it’s noisy and the air is unclean. Second, there are a lot of lights around in the city and it disturbs your sleep. In Japan, they are ample choices for housing. The key difference is that you need to pump in some key money to the landlord if you want to rent an apartment. There are many singles in Japan, so there are many apartments for singles that comes with a small balcony and LAN internet. There are also cheap houses in the suburbs and it is not far to take the JR line to work. It takes me 45 mins to get to Tachikawa, 45 mins to Shinjuku. If you want even cheaper housing, you could always go to the countryside and take is easy for your old age. Clean air and peaceful surroundings and with Yahoo Broadband services, no worries. In Singapore, …[fill in the blanks]

]]> By: SpursHide http://theonlinecitizen.com/2010/02/the-final-nail-in-the-hdb-affordability-coffin/comment-page-2/#comment-131008 SpursHide Mon, 22 Feb 2010 04:35:54 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=19860#comment-131008 You pay peanuts, you get monkeys. But why is that when we pay bananas, we STILL get monkeys? Please explain. You pay peanuts, you get monkeys. But why is that when we pay bananas, we STILL get monkeys? Please explain.

]]> By: Givemeanhonestgovernment http://theonlinecitizen.com/2010/02/the-final-nail-in-the-hdb-affordability-coffin/comment-page-2/#comment-131007 Givemeanhonestgovernment Mon, 22 Feb 2010 04:29:20 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=19860#comment-131007 They give me a chicken wing now; only to take a whole chicken away later. They give me a chicken wing now; only to take a whole chicken away later.

]]> By: Givechickenwingnowtakethewholechickenlater http://theonlinecitizen.com/2010/02/the-final-nail-in-the-hdb-affordability-coffin/comment-page-2/#comment-131005 Givechickenwingnowtakethewholechickenlater Mon, 22 Feb 2010 04:26:03 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=19860#comment-131005 <strong>I don't think the people can forget and forgive this HDB misaction for a long time as  many young voters have to live with it. MBT needs to do damage control now. </strong> I don’t think the people can forget and forgive this HDB misaction for a long time as  many young voters have to live with it. MBT needs to do damage control now.

]]> By: rwkc http://theonlinecitizen.com/2010/02/the-final-nail-in-the-hdb-affordability-coffin/comment-page-2/#comment-131003 rwkc Mon, 22 Feb 2010 03:54:15 +0000 http://theonlinecitizen.com/?p=19860#comment-131003 Yup, I agree with you, FeverGUY. If Singaporeans know what is good for them, they should kick the papies out, all of them if possible, in the next elections. Do NOT be fooled by their offer of titbits. What they give you with one hand they have already decided when or how to take them back, many times over, with the other. Do NOT miss out on the opportunity the next elections offer; kick them out! Yup, I agree with you, FeverGUY.

If Singaporeans know what is good for them, they should kick the papies out, all of them if possible, in the next elections.

Do NOT be fooled by their offer of titbits. What they give you with one hand they have already decided when or how to take them back, many times over, with the other.

Do NOT miss out on the opportunity the next elections offer; kick them out!

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