Lim Swee Say should use his “cheaper, better, faster” slogan on himself and his colleagues!!!

Reduce the pay of ministers is the way to go. They are blatantly overpaid. Peg their pay to the median pay of the commoners. Then things will really change.

This is a good effort demonstrating leadership in Accountability.
Bravo!

Dane Feb 2, 2010 23:15 ,

I support our leaders getting highest pay in the world but in terms of being in that category of pay for politician on a global level.

I mean hor, like If european / USA politicians are the officially second highest paid, then our leaders can join them get the same kind of pay like. Like this hor, everyone usa, europe , sg all in the highest salary category lor. They can still say highest paid , in this respect mah. correct me if i the long.

@Al Gorina I don’t see a reason why we should have highest paid office holders. Shouldn’t we aim for the highest earning “bottom 20%” of every nations’ population? we should be raising the income of our population, especially the bottom 20%.

It’s sad that we have one of the lowest in terms of “minimum wages” in the developed world. I know, legally, there is no minimum wages law in Singapore, as far as I know. Heck, in the Big Mac Index, we takes 33 minutes to earn a Big Mac…

People, we should aim for the lowest working hours possible, with highest minimum wages possible. we need to have work-life balance. We should focus on how much we are earning as compared to the rest of the developed world.

The table of data is worth its weight in gold. Fabulous comparison. Simplicity at its best.
I only wish there was a table that reflected citizens’ trust and confidence in their respective leader.

Does anyone doubt PM Lee will be worse than our MSM equivalent ranking of 154th ?
Even the village chief of Timbaktu will probably feel offended if he loses out to PM Lee.

Eh, is the work hours per year figure accurate? The following source says Singapore clocked an average of 2307 work hours for 2009. That’s over 200 more hours than what’s currently stated.

http://business.asiaone.com/Business/News/My%2BMoney/Story/A1Story20100129-195280.html

When it comes to long hours and hard work, Singapore workers are tops in the world. Yet for some reason, Singaporeans don’t have spurs stuck into their hides.

Defennder
Feb 2, 2010 23:57

the data i’ve taken for the table is from the website below.
http://www.ubs.com/1/e/wealthmanagement/wealth_management_research/prices_earnings.html

None of the Ministries deserved more than 3 out of 10 in performance ratings. The mind boggles how an incompetent group of Ministers and PSs can earn so much money compared to other world leaders. It is blatantly obscene.

Based on their performance, they should have their pay cut by a good 80% until they can show their worth.
Based on their quality of life of ordinary Singaporeans, the Ministers deserved F. E, and D- gradings at best.

This country is collapsing rapidly before our eyes. Worse than a Tsunami earthquake.

Hi All,

Someone with wisdom already pointed out how to create a government which really listens to its people. It isactually very straightforward…..

When the government is in great fear of losing its votes, it will forego its profitable or unpopular policies, or even its own principles just to please the electorate. Of course it might be another story altogether after the elections.

As such, the heavenly duty of each citizen is to keep the government on its toes and make them afraid, really afraid. Then they will listen to you. PM Lee wil tell you: “Whatever you request, we will take action. What to do?”

people, we have to understand that the MILLION DOLLARS salaries were instigated by the old man coz he knew his party is flagging and loosing power. Thus, he needed to reap in as much as he can for himself and his sons, cronies before they loose their seats. Even if they loose in the next GE, the millions amassed for the past 4 years is enough to last them a lifetime of luxurious retirement.

Our ministerial salaries are sordid, not so much for their size, as for the illogical arguments presented in support. We are basically told that we have to pay ministers income forgone. Isn’t that precisely what that is, income forgone? Pay MM Lee what he would’ve earned as a top lawyer? But he isn’t a top lawyer. He has already been well paid since day one for his work as a politician. Correct me if I am wrong, but the salary of the PM has risen faster than the salary of the median wage level in Singapore since independence, has it not? Why do ministers demand the best of both worlds, when for the average citizen it has always been belt-tightening and stark choices and bitter pills?

The illogic of these justifications, and their like, cannot possibly escape the vaunted intelligence of the PAP people. I do not want to be led by people who can present this sort of self-serving reasoning without embarrassment or any apparent internal moral and ethical conflict.

Not forgetting that we’ve MM and SM to mentor our PM. So the total cost of PM’s job should be the total salaries of these 3 person.

@FaceTheFact,

The situation is quite a lot worse than that! The PMO has 1 PM, 2 SM, 1MM and 2 DPM and 3 ministers (the 3 Lims – Lim Boon Heng, Lim Swee Say, Lim Hwee Hua). A total of 9 ministers to “coordinate” the governance of a country occupying less than 700 sq.km with a population of 5 million.

This is most overpaid and under-worked government in the world. Remember that high rewards carry high expectations. Remember the public pronouncement at the start of the financial crisis that there was NOTHING wrong with Singapore’s economic structure. However, the formation of the Economic Strategy Committee (ESC) shortly after betrayed their lack of confidence.

In reality, the crisis could have been less of an impact if not for at least 2 decades of unchallenged policy making. The performance of the PAP government in the past 2 decades has been dismal if we measure by the things that really matter: RESULTS.

And this govt loves to use the pretext of governance stability to prevent Singaporeans from voting for more freedom unlike places like Taiwan, South Korea, and HK.

Just imagine, Taiwan has 8 years of Chen Siu Pian, who stole monies from Taiwan.

And Taiwanese in general have more retirement monies than you in Singapore.

What a joke!

And this govt (including the earlier one) loves to use the pretext that it has difficulty attracting good people to serve and therefore need to pay potential people well.

They are effectively charging Singaporeans for something they couldn’t do normally.

while benefiting at the same time.

Sometimes, I don’t know how Singaporeans in general put up with this.

I do not mind paying them that kind of salary, have more if they think they deserve it. But, S’pore shd never go into recession, shd have double digit growth every year, low inflation, zero uemployment, welfare for citizens, free education till university, world class public transport, cheap and world class housing/medical care, put S’poreans first etc etc. Have they delivered? Please work for your worth!

With that kind of salary also not enough, their relatives are in directorship of all the govt listed companies and what have you!

This exact article is also in TR. So is this a TOC article or a TR article?
http://www.temasekreview.com/2010/02/03/the-singapore-government-%E2%80%93-worth-its-weight-in-gold/

a reader
Feb 3, 2010 10:50

Hi, this is our first attempt at citizen journalism and we sent to both TR and TOC for publishment as we support both websites. : )

Did you count the number of side or private businesses each of them hold or their wife holds and how many directorships etc? The discretionary bonuses for ministers is 12 months, decided by PM himself. Do you think the PM will give himself 1 month bonus for poor performance?

The truth to why people are frustrated and angry is basic needs like public housing out of reach and cost of living extremely high. While they keep telling citizens to accept low pay and tighten the belts, they rewarded themselves and their cronies millions. Remember the $600k peanuts? And he is now CEO of some big company in Dubai, having a good time, given the golden handshake.

By paying millions, you expect them to make money from investments and alleviate the cost of living and pressure off citizens. But instead lost so much of taxpayers’ money and need to recoup through citizens’ neccessities such as hdb, transportation, property, rental blah blah. And worst of all the person who lost billions did not have to account for anything, much less than the mat selamat and the runnning away of the diplomat etc.

It has always been about money and power. When an individual or an organization is in power, greed kicks in and money becomes your best friend. And when you have too much of it, then it’s time for the posession of power and control.

It has never been about the people. Look at the work/life balance in Singapore. It is horrible. And Singapore’s main resource is her people but sadly, the people are leaving. Most of my friends have migrated to countries like Australia, Canada and New Zealand. It’s disheartening. And those who have migrated or who are working overseas, most of them are unwilling to come back to live and work in Singapore.

Some policies and structure need to be revised. An example is the structure of our government. Do we really need that many ministers to run a relatively small country?

Job opportunities for Singaporeans is another important issue. We seem to be losing out to “foreign talent” especially from India and China. Why? Because they are willing to take lower pay and it cuts cost for the company to hire a foreigner than a Singaporean. But the fact of the matter is, these foreigners live and work here temporarily to gain citizenship and then move to countries like USA or Canada. Singapore is just a stepping stone for them. And we, Singaporeans who want to live, work and raise a family here are the scapegoats.

Surely, as Singaporeans and citizens of the country, we deserve better.

What a joke ? MM, Mentoring the minister ? More like mentoring his useless akua son.

Singapore’s Shame, Sham, Scam

well represented in the Parliament – all 82 of them

Wakka
Feb 3, 2010 0:40

It’s strange that we should find such a large disparity between what The Conference Board reports and what the UBS report says. Perhaps the weighting of profession share of working population by UBS was done differently from the Conference Board’s.

Furthermore, the Conference Board uses this definition provided by the United Nation (see section 3):
http://unstats.un.org/unsd/sna1993/tocLev8.asp?L1=17&L2=2

Their methodology is explained here:
http://www.conference-board.org/economics/downloads/Methodological_Notes.pdf

What standard did UBS use?

I think it’s OK for our Ministers to be well paid provided they’re judged by very high standards, of which you think about it means showing moral leadership. Instead we get ministers like Wong Kan Seng who lead the world in producing comic relief. I mean this is a ministry that claims to invest so much in anti-terrorism technology that it can’t afford a working CCTV and a window grill in a secured facility. Yet the Minister gets to keep his job.

What would moral leadership mean. I think if the government thinks that it needs foreigners to make the population face-up to the reality of competition, it should lead by example. We should either outsource our Ministers to places like India or let foreigners run for office. Look, they tell us that we have to accept the reality that a PhD in India will do our little jobs for us at one tenth of the price -companies after all look for the best talent in the world. So, why can’t we apply the same principle to their jobs. I’m sure we could find 200 Indian PhD’s to do the job of the entire cabinet for PM’s salary alone – there you have it, just saved the tax payer $90 million plus in salaries and I’ve gotten very talented people to do the job.

Then again, if you don’t like India, I’m sure we can even outsource the job to the USA. I’m confident that we can find 30 very talented and qualified Americans to do the job for one PM’s salary. Once again I’ve managed to save the tax-payer $90 million plus a year and ensured that the most qualified people get the job.

Hey, its the same principle they apply to us. We have to accept that companies can find more qualified people to do our job at a fraction of the price. Why can’t we do the same to them. Next time someone says elect the government, let’s say no – insist on outsourcing the government and get value for money.

They also get top medical at our gov. hospitals, get the best when they travel on “gov. business” overseas, their children obviously very clever, get the scholarships, local and overseas.
There is not much to say for the next elections, just vote them out.

IT is not good enough to compare apple with oranges. Like to like comparision should be used for the salaries of ministers. in comparable countries.

As far as I am concerned the spoils of war goes to the victor.

So, is there an alternative to the present party . No !! not at present.

SO a monopoly was created and they name their prices.

ALL is money and power , worked over the history of man.

AS far as I am concerned SG is not a country but a biz. and so the CEO’s hv a comparision in similar industries.

rgds,

sam choo

PLS REMEMBER SG IS NOT A COUNTRY BUT A BIZ .

SO WE HV TO PAY TOP WAGES TO THE CEO’S WHO MADE IT TICK.

WE HV WON MANY BATTTLES IN THE PAST, BUT LOST THE WAR JUST IN ONE STROKE CALLED CLAN LOYALTY.

SHOULD HV PAID MORE IF A TRUE CONSULTANT WAS AVAILABLE TO US BEFORE THE LEHMAN BROS COLLAPSE. IF oNLY WE HAD INSIDER KNOWLEDGE.

RGDS,

SAM CHOO

How can the ministers be worth weight in gold?

MediaCorp says HK family got more clout than CapitaLand , a GLC, in China. Last two para of
http://atans1.wordpress.com/2010/02/03/capland-what-price-the-mega-china-deal/

Waz pt of ministers visiting China?

Indecent pay for indecent people. Does MM believe that he and his ministers are worth so much money?
What have they done to improve the lives of the ordinary people?

The door is wide open for anyone of them to leave including MM, SM and PM. The earlier, the better. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

How did the influx of foreign workers artificially inflate per capita GDP?

Other than that, agree with your points.

They are definitely not worth that much of ”GOLD”

Imagine all these money being pumped into helping the poor, needy & sick citizen.. and giving free education & medical to all SIngaporeans.

They have taken all of us for granted. Truly.

3 Words: OUT THEY GO!

Mahathir once said that Ministers in Malaysia are often accused of accepting under the counter payments to get things done but in Singapore they do it over the counter.

At the end of the day, is there any difference especially when the Miinisters across both sides of the causeway are enjoying the spoils and directly benefitting from it. Morally are our Ministers just as corrupt ?

Bring on the GE now! I am ready for democracy!

Now that Obama has voiced disapproval of fat cats getting huge bonuses when their companies are not performing, should admirers of USA heed this advice as well?

Should pay be pegged to the ‘wall street’ we know, if that is how it is done?

I think this article “the sg gov, Worth its weight in gold?” is a waste of time.
Only a handful disagree with the pay they were approved.

The fact is Majority either do not see this as their problem like that mandatory video where interviewees replied “I don’t really care” , of they simply Bo Chap or Kuay Chap.

This is Singaporeans we are talking about.

Such articles won’t work on Singaporeans.

sorry if i offended by so saying but this is my honest opinion. 50 years proved beyond reasonable doubt.

i rest my case.

Most people still don’t realize the issue confronting Singaporeans.

Based on last election’s results, it is likely that the PAP might lose this time round. So, it seems obvious that if Singaporeans are not going to vote for PAP, then the government must do something.

What is the solution?

Let’s quickly get half a million PRs and change the constitution to allow them to vote when the next election comes round.

Singaporeans still can’t see from the media that the PAP is sensitizing the people to accept this as the election approaches.

There was mention of “some constitutional change” some months back. Then LKY recently said that the focus will now be making the life of Singaporeans better.

Well, the bird is already captured and in hand. They are going to win. Now, they have to make Singaporeans accept the outcome by saying a few nice things.

Just watch, it will happen … soon. We will have half a million new citizens overnight!

the Singapore government is a glorified town council.. There at least 3 dozen City Mayors who govern more people than the PM of Singapore..

The PMO office collects, monitors and do planning for the party 2 or 3 years ahead of things. They already knew most citizenship increasingly getting disgruntled. The fast treking of many Chinese PRs and Inddians PRs to new citizens was intented to dilute, it was done over last 2 or 3 years prior the election in 2011, now delayed till 2010, as they think the ground isnt sweet yet.

Of course, after importing so much, they are starting to change tune, saying Singaporeans should come first. We know election is coming and this is probably the last chance Singaporeans can make an impact. After which, the dilution becoming more distinct, then the opposing votes dont mean much anymore.

I think the losses at GIC/Temasek really made it very difficult for them to throw sweetners, they decided to recoup the losses by pushing money politics and Singaporeans felt cornered, especially with those exhorbitant HDB prices etc. Despite words of consolation being dished out to appease the public, I think a lot of Singaporeans are feeling the heat.

I guessed money will be distributed before election, we would see some new regulations to elections and i believe those hot spots would encountered new strategies from the state. They know the hotspots, they wont be waiting for the day to come, they will be surprised the public or oppositions.

But then again, the votes in our hands, if we are that easily swayed, then we need to continue to bite the bullet and stop complaining.

leekuanyhew is worth more than medusa’s father who touched anythinggie turned to gold
please tell me which government servant @ the aged of over 80 earned more than $100,000/month?

THE IRONIC THING IS MPs/CIVIL SERVANTs ARE PAID WITH TAX PAYERS MONEY N MPs CHOOSE TO IGNORE TAX PAYERS CALL FOR HELP

See article in Straits Times forum n HWZ forum.

http://comment.straitstimes.com/showthread.php?p=398978&posted=1#post398978

http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=2661117

In fact it does work, its just that neither one of us can do something about it. So thats the problem.
Their salaries = YOUR tax money . Simple as that, looking at so much money going into their pockets, yet their work and influence to the world is that little, just doesn’t match.

//leekuanyhew is worth more than medusa’s father who touched anythinggie turned to gold

LKY certainly couldn’t save UBS and citibank.

what a joke.

Now I understand why city harvest church can make so much monies in a such a short time.

There really are many moron in Singapore.

What a joke!

//leekuanyhew is worth more than medusa’s father who touched anythinggie turned to gold

LKY certainly couldn’t save UBS and citibank.

what a joke.

Now I understand why city harvest church can make so much monies in a such a short time.

There really are many moron in Singapore.

Personally i not concerned that my tax money goes to them but i wanna see results and things being done . Besides economic issue , i wanna see domestic issues being addressed on.

The only issue that i personally disagree on is the amount, 2.8million bucks.
Its ridiculously way too high.
It doesn’t reflect the responsibility that they are carrying.

It may be huge if u just look at a country itself but by looking at the world, its just —–> ” . ” Thats small dot over there.

A good check and balance is needed to have a clean system.

We don’t need MILLION DOLLAR Ministers to talk crap and do not have ideas.

So much of bull shit is coming out in the papers lately, about the govt doing this and that, shows that election is nearing most likey in August.

Defennder
Feb 3, 2010 12:20

“Based on a unique survey of correspondents in 73 major cities across the globe, Prices and Earnings provides a comprehensive comparison of prices (122 goods and services plus apartment rents), incomes, income taxes, working hours and vacation days for 14 different occupations. A ranking of relative purchasing power, and thus the living standard for each of the 73 cities in the survey, is derived from this data.”

“Annual working hours including vacation (paid) and legal holidays; weighted average of 13 professions
(excluding elementary school teachers)
1 Paid working days (excluding legal holidays)”

its a survey i believe, and the average of 13 professions, which is why theres a difference. so, most likely the numbers should be higher.

gold isnt worth a lot

jxblack
Feb 3, 2010 14:43

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/11674/52/
http://www.independent.org/issues/article.asp?id=1505

studies estimated that america’s GDP will increase if they do not deport the illegal immigrants, but to welcome immigrants. applying the same logic, these immigrant will also increase our GDP through taxes etc.

however, once the immigration floodgate closes, the quantity coming in will be lesser and will most likely retard our GDP growth, unless the quality of both the immigrants and locals can go up fast enough to maintain the GDP growth.

my 2 cents.

//Mahathir once said that Ministers in Malaysia are often accused of accepting under the counter payments to get things done but in Singapore they do it over the counter.//

There is indeed a huge difference. There, when they get caught they have to face the music.
Here they ensure that they will never be caught as everything is nice and legal. Result?
There is no music to dance to!!!

I cannot imagine another 10 years.

Would new citizens be >50% citizen population in 5 years time or less ?
What might be the effect of us giving them another 5 years ?

When new citizen >50%, does this mean we the >=2nd generation citizens become the minority?

IF so, how will we affected the decisions of the >50% newbies?

To avoid all these headache, i know what to do now. I am ready like there is no tomolo.

Perhaps the peg of our ministers’ pay should be to the leaders in other countries instead of the top earners in the country.

Afterall, we should not be comparing apples against oranges.

Am I making sense here ??

Without going into the pay issue, i feel that the singapore leaders are fast losing touch of the plight of the common people. They are supported by grass root leaders who are mostly self serving and who merely want to report good news and positive events to the masters they report to.

It is sad that there are some segments in our population that have been totally neglected, ignored and sidelined.

I think our country will fail in the long term if this trend continues…

Look at the cronies they are surrounded with. Everyone with $$$$ in their eyes. PERIOD.

$$$ is the only language they talk.
Now, $$$ is the only language the populace knows.

Singaporeans are screwed one way or another if we continue with this route.

When we look at how much the ministers draw above as compared to mounting poverty in Singapore. It really makes many people sick! This information alone, makes LKY legacy pale.

Wakka
Feb 3, 2010 21:01

That’s interesting. Thanks for taking time to dig those out. Hope to see you guys write more about such issues.

At the rate the golden boys and gals of the government is heading…

well…

Best they read this..

http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/stupidity/

If anyone has reflected, the reasons given were indeed “very shallow” !

This reflects the of law and order of a country.

It then becomes questionable !

And sometimes ago, the stories of “confrontasi” was brought up.
Frankly, “the scheme” was well planned.
So we did ran to the “cow-boys”. (As expected !).
And, the “cow-boys” were laughing all the way.
Intellectuals ? Worth its weight in gold ?

Anyway, it is better to adapt any rules and regulations we learned from any countries, too.
It is foolish to follow blindly !

So this advertisement on TV was repeated many times, about the colour “Red”.
It says that certain countries regard it as not good, but others consider it as good omen !

/// Nonetheless, we ought to recognise the importance of quality logic and foresight in governance, such as those displayed by MM Lee in the pre- and post-independence (minus Operation Coldstore, which was an outrage in my humble opinion). There is sufficient evidence to claim that the initial management of local housing and education by MM Lee’s government provided an impetus for the growth of our country. This allowed the country to be propelled from third world status to that of the first world. ///

Very true. However, all these are done during the period when ministers were paid relatively modestly. So, there is no correlation with high pay and high performance. In fact, quite the reverse. Many of the recent boo-boos and major fiascos occurred after the ministers were paid handsomely.

There is no way they can justify their cut-throat salaries ! Basing on an average salary of $ 3,000 per day per Minister, what value have they added to justify that kind of salaries?

The Singapore Govt is worth my 2 big balls. Even if you were to remove my 2 big balls, I can still live. So that’s how much it is worth.

Personally i dun mind if they get 10 times more pay provided they deliver 10 times more, to singaporeans that is and not to anybody else. With these foreign workers, and the locals not protected when they are displaced from their work due to the open competition, i would say that a lot is lacking to say the least. And the way their pay is peg seem counter productive to me, for example by importing millions of talents to fill up this country and without concern for domestic events and the effects to the locals, they could have reaped the benefits of growth and double their pay in an instance. The fact that their pay is pegged to economic outputs instead of human welfare, lies the root of the problem; yet even if they knows about the irony of their peg, and obviously they should have, yet who really cares about it. That is what bothers me and I believe I am not alone in that.

typo error, “for example by importing millions of talents to fill up this country..” shud be read as “if, for example by importing millions of talents to fill up this country..”

look at some of the MPs in the parliament, the way they sit and posture seems to be telling that they are not interested at all to hear what FM had to say. Their faces shows non interest like a class of students listening to a boring history lessons. Our country just barely struggled thru a recession, with a balloning budget expenses, and MPs are damn not even bothered to put up a show. At least, no one is sleeping  now. Live telecast is a good way to catch napping MPs and totally BO CHAP face MPs.

I think paying them $11000 every month seems to be a torture to our MPs for just a short session in parliament. How much more they want before their face can brighten up in a LIVE Telecast of the parliament session? How much more?

@FeverGuy what live telecast of parliament, and can judge by ‘cover’ meh D;