For those who may have missed the programme, here is National Development minister, Mah Bow Tan, on the Talking Point programme where he defended HDB’s housing policies.
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objectivity,
Mrch 22, 2010 02:29
thanks for the price list. some does seem affordable, IMPO. but when buying a home, a long term commitment for many, price consideration alone cannot be the ultimate factor. unless 1 can afford another private property then dun say lah…
agents also know that when buying property, its “location, location, location”…
also, why HDB so special, private property sells psf, HDB sell per ? room?
Goh Meng Seng cant even articulate properly, in the Al Jazeera interview, he don’t even understand what the interviewer was talking, and could only be given a smile of amusement in return.
Vote for the best-, don’t vote for the sake of opposing. If any candidate is the best, then vote for him, don’t vote just to oppose or to be pro ruling.
//Objectivity
//If you cant afford it, then buy in a cheaper location, wake up earlier la. Like I said, want //good and cheap! Want
That’s what the people in Jurong west did and it has been very inspiring for future generations of Singaporeans.
yeah, they are inspired to serve a long mortgage and spend 2/3 of their lives working (since we clocked very high hours at work) and another 1/6 on travelling on the roads. That leave a lot of time for sex and romance.
Yeah, very inspiring indeed!
My Views,
March 22, 2010 02:46
“Hot from the oven:
14 precints chosen for HIP!!”
wah, you into creative writing ah? :p
i wonder why didn’t HDB roll out the program sooner? dun tell me HDB started planning 50 years anniversary celebration from last election? :p
//objectivity
As if LKY’s mps have many people who are articulate?
They get the job done well .
LHL have many people who can talk but they cannot deliver.
Goh meng seng is not articulate? that’s what you think.
The most important thing is his ideas are good and he has the heart to serve.
For one, speaking out against mbt and his crazy policies is a good sigh already.
Many of the pap mps ask stupid questions in parliament and some sleep during parliament when important laws are passed.
double standards!
//My Views
//What could Goh Meng Seng and his party offer to Singaporeans?
Stable and sensible home prices. That’s one.
//National Development Minister Mah Bow Tan on Sunday.
//The cost of the essential repairs such as spalling concrete, leaking ceilings and the
//replacement of waste pipes, are fully borne by the government.
go ask GMS why HDB should have done this earlier. He had written about it.
also, as if it wasn’t the extra monies from gst hike, hdb flat taxes hike and other price hike that fund this?
as if MBT cannot squeeze you later with more taxes to pay for these repair.
With mbt voted out, the govt will have more savings to do more repairs and upgrading for s’poreans.
//objectivity
//HDB has one and only one objective, to provide housing for people
you forgot the part on affordable housing for people.
not just housing.
that any developer can do.
How convenient to forget that?
I take it that you agree the 30 years mortgage benchmark is madness.
//objectivity
yeah, I make 10 % return per annum and I don’t travel around.
You are the only one who control knowledge about overseas countries.
unfortunately chan brothers offer that experience at low price from time to time.
@fpc
then work harder, work longer, go get education certs if you need, and get out of the rat race. The only person that can help you, is yourself.
Er, i thought you said MBT did a “good” job in sucking the people dry, then won’t it translate for more money and thus savings to do such repairs?
Can we even trust someone like GMS? Who party hopped and no credibility etc. I’m not pro-ruling but I dont want someone like that to run my constituency. Besides how much experience does he have? Opposition wards are becoming dilapidated etc.
Excuse me, if HDB flats are not affordable, why is demand so much greater than supply?
Goh Meng Seng operates a small business. God knows whether he managed to break-even!!
//My Views
//Excuse me, if HDB flats are not affordable, why is demand so much greater than supply?
if you control water and sell it at $50 dollars a litre, people will still have to buy.
demand will still be there for water at that price. But it is immoral to set it at that price.
as for your question, it has been adequately answered bt TOc. they have an article on that.
//my views
//Goh Meng Seng operates a small business. God knows whether he managed to break-even!!
LHL supposedly runs the country and he has been unable to break even the budget for a number of years.
MBT runs a monopoly for public housing and he claimed he has inflicted 2 billion losses on HDB last year and 1 billion losses the year before.
My bet is GMS broke even.
//objectivity
yeah right, I need you to teach me.
//Er, i thought you said MBT did a “good” job in sucking the people dry, then won’t it translate for more money and thus savings to do such repairs?
thank you for acknowledging the monies came from us in the first place and we don’t owe MBT anything for doing what he should have done earlier.
//but I dont want someone like that to run my constituency.
that’s your choice.
We want a real and people serving mp, not mps who sleep in parliament and talk cock during parliament.
//Besides how much experience does he have? Opposition wards are becoming dilapidated
As if the wards in Geylang are much better?
Hougang and Potang Pasir are great place to live in.
My Views,
March 22, 2010 03:10
the demand is foreign driven to a certain extent, not forgetting the number of new citizens & PRs. people need a roof over their heads, not tents.
S’pore so small, very easy to flood foreigners wan. you can try flood China loh.
rofl….
@fpc
you can always choose not to buy, thats a poor excuse and rational. So many people see that it is affordable thats why they queue. Those bitter and/or want a better housing (aka greedy) will complain its too high
@mice is nice
HDB also sells by psf, but obviously 2 room is smaller then 3 room etc.
so since the macdonald’s index is fair, therefore everyone should be able to afford? Since macs pay $4/hr. Even 8 hrs a day is $900 for 28 days. Imagine work 10 or even OT? So the other articles that the jobless are really jobless are true? Mcdonalds recently come out wif campaign and adverts to hire more people.
Now who are those that CANNOT afford. These usually are 3rd time or more home buyers that had taken two bites of the cherry. So they had abused the system twice or even more, some netting $90k , some 150k, some “pay off loans” and some “bo pian circumstances(which they are none btw)”, some are genuinely ill-informed or under exasperated situation (such as divorce) and some just plainly abusing the system.
So how many times should we subsidize these fellow?
Remember that if you can afford to be choosy, means that you are not in dire need of a place to stay aka you can still live with your family etc. Those that are truely homeless would just take any of the units available.
@fpc
you can always choose not to buy, thats a poor excuse and rational. So many people see that it is affordable thats why they queue. Those bitter and/or want a better housing (aka greedy) will complain its too high
LHL has been increasing social welfare, thats why not able to “breakeven”. If he wants to break even, just remove all welfare!
@mice is nice
HDB also sells by psf, but obviously 2 room is smaller then 3 room etc.
so since the macdonald’s index is fair, therefore everyone should be able to afford? Since macs pay $4/hr. Even 8 hrs a day is $900 for 28 days. Imagine work 10 or even OT? So the other articles that the jobless are really jobless are true? Mcdonalds recently come out wif campaign and adverts to hire more people.
Now who are those that CANNOT afford. These usually are 3rd time or more home buyers that had taken two bites of the cherry. So they had abused the system twice or even more, some netting $90k , some 150k, some “pay off loans” and some “bo pian circumstances(which they are none btw)”, some are genuinely ill-informed or under exasperated situation (such as divorce) and some just plainly abusing the system.
So how many times should we subsidize these fellow?
Remember that if you can afford to be choosy, means that you are not in dire need of a place to stay aka you can still live with your family etc. Those that are truely homeless would just take any of the units available.
//objectivity
Yeah, I can choose not to buy, I can choose to emigrate, I could choose to vote mbt out.
I will choose to vote MBT out.
If water is priced at 50 dollars a litre, I will have to buy and I will complain. It is legitimate.
That doesn’t mean the monopoly is right to charge at that price.
//Remember that if you can afford to be choosy, means that you are not in dire need of a
//place to stay aka you can still live with your family etc. Those that are truely homeless
//would just take any of the units available.
yeah true, the only problem is if you are homeless, you definitely don’t have monies to buy.
Thank you for bring out the classical technique of MBT and the pigs, lock you up on one spot and force you to accept something like CPF life at 2023 if you have 60K.
This is why they cannot survive once outside the politics.
no normal human being will do this kind of immoral things.
//objectivity
//LHL has been increasing wellfare?
what a joke!
@fpc
maybe you don’t know, like a very good advise you had been dishing out to others – go read up
//objectivity
read what?
“…AROUND 12,000 Housing Board households in older estates will be selected this year for sprucing up, as the pace of the Home Improvement Programme (HIP) steps up…”: My Views.
Before you start asking Goh Meng Seng any questions, I hope you would help me do some maths regards to this report.
HDB has earmarked 360,000 flats built before 1984 for HIP over a period of 10 years. Let us be generous in our analysis and give the initial 12,000 flats one year to have their upgrading done. This translates to 30 years for 360,000 flats built before 1984!
What then about those flats built after 1984? Will they see upgrading only after 30 years, in 2040?
I sincerly hope you open your eyes wider and your brains deeper. Another one of the government’s smoke screen, don;t you think? Sounds good to the ears but really, nothing but garbage.
So a widow working at Macdonalds with $800 a month and raising 2 child aged 11 and 15 is supposed to be able to afford at least a one room flat without scraping for her kids. And she cannot apply for public assistance because she’s “supposed” to be cared for by her husband who ran away overseas and never came back.
And yes she had a three flat before and sold it because she couldn’t continue to pay for it and thus sold it at a loss, couldn’t get any subsidies now and has a financial problems every month that her selective kind relatives will help her out.
Oh yea, you were going to tell me such cases are rare, blah, the government will help all genuine cases, put them in proper housing, blah, go see the MP for more assistance, blah.
From what I saw the PAP grassroot leader (And take note, she tried another constituency and a certain AMS chided her for going to another constituency for help) said they’ll take note of her case, had her waited a year and a half while surviving on less than $400 a month after paying rent, to feed a family of 3 while living in one rented room.
Oh yea, I forgot, I should stop ranting, because it is a RARE case. Right? RARE? It is also very rare I actually have to fork out money to help people. I can’t look away from blood relations. But why am I seeing such things when I supposedly have million dollar ministers who is top talents of the world and can solve everything?
*Three room flat* Not three flats, I’m not thinking properly with a slight hangover.
objectivity
Mar 22, 2010 3:36
Who cares if they use their own personal money to invest and whether it is a loss or gain. That is the main focus. Investment is not an exact science, you make gain and you make loss.
But when it involves public funds where loss may be democratized (socialized) potentially more than the gain whose benefits are skewed proportionately much more to a few elitist managers, then every citizen has every right to question and probe.
Loss may even come in the form of program and policies that the citizens may have to comply so that national finances are balanced (or whatever that is).
I am now very confident tthat the property market will never come down in Singapore. You see, it is very simple, with the BTO HDB flats.
All new flats are BTO, it will wait till there are enough buyers willing tho pay the price set (could be very high depending on location). Otherwise, no flats for you. If they don;t build, there is no new supply, hence the resale market will go up and when the prices catch up, more people will subscribe to the BTO at the set price or perhaps higher.
Before we criticise MBT for not doing his job, perhaps we could have a look at his KPI. So far he has been getting his bonuses and as far as everyone knows, people who have good bonuses usually are ranked very high on their individual KPI. So we may conclude that he did an excellent job.
Anyway do not forget, he did it with the mandate of the electorate. This is what the majority voted for, and they deserve to get what they want.
Mr Mah’s way of handling HDB flats is:
1) Flash you a number on how much to pay for your HDB flat
2) Refuse to provide relevant data/methodology of the cost of building,way of determining price etc
3) Use strange and unorthdox statistics to convince you that HDB flats are affordable
4) Scold you for refusing to buy his unpopular flats
@SoSad
The problem with the BTO system is that it does not address current demand. It addresses demand 3 years down the road. This is because on average, it takes 3 years to complete a BTO project.
If there is a sudden surge in demand, there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING Mr Mah can do.
Under the BTO system, he does not have a stockpile of HDB flats which he can release into the market. This happpened during the current boom-bust cycle. Demand surged as there was liberalisation of the FT policy to meet the demands of employers. With the earliest possible time for new HDB flats to enter the market 3 years away, the resale market skyrocketed.
We will continue to have destructive boom-bust cycles as long as we use Mr Mah’s BTO system and have Mr Mah running our public housing program.
WHEN I GOT MY 5-RM HDB AT 87K IN A NEW ESTATE IN 1985, I WAS EARNING 3K+ WITH ONLY A POLY DIPLOMA AND WORKING FOR 7 YEARS.
ASSUMING A POLY DIPLOMA HOLDER TODAY HAS WORKED 7 YEARS AND EARNING A SALARY OF 3k+, THE PRICE OF A NEW 5-RM HDB IS ABOUT 300K+ THEREABOUTS.
IN THIS NO-EXAGGERATED SCENRIO, SALARY REMAINED UNCHANGED, BUT THE COST OF A 5-RM FLAT HAS INCREASED ABOUT 4X.
YOU CONCLUDE YOURSELF – IS HDB PRICING STILL AFFORDABLE…????
DOWN TO EARTH PLEASE
Mar 22, 2010 11:54
Do not have to explain much.
Because there will be a lot of scumbags from the other side who will try to pull wool over your eyes.
Vote this B*st*rd out! Cant stand seeing his arrogance anymore! Vote him out!
kudos to you, fpc… you beat objectivity hands-down, LOL.
I wonder in the year 2070-90 when majority of the flats suddenly ended their lease, how many losers r there in this HDB game who have commited their life savings into this flats and not get a single cent back. And the Gov will simple say, thank you for tending to these blocks for us. Now we r taking it back and to resell it at 2mil each lol.
Everyone should all go and buy freehold, forget about HDB, it bad to sell the flats when it is 40 year old and waiting for others to get burn.
The following is from Mr Mah during the recent budget debate. If you are an elderly retiree and you cannot get along with your family, DON”T GO TO MR MAH FOR A RENTAL FLAT. He won’t rent it to you. Instead he will refer you to the Family Service Centre and FORCE you to live with your family.
—-
Rental flats are heavily subsidised. And that is one of the reasons why the queue is so long. Because we charge $30 or $40 for a flat, and the flat is very comfortable. If you look at the new flats that are being built, they are very, very comfortable, not like the old days. Thirty dollars, a flat of your own, who does not want? Everybody wants to join the queue. If you are an elderly retiree with no income, under the old criteria, you could have joined the queue. No questions asked and then when your turn came, you got the flat. If we had continued with that, no amount of new rental flats that we build will be sufficient. Our position is that if you have family support, if you can stay with your families. Please do not compete with the truly needy for these flats because they are really for those who have no other housing option. In that particular case where the old lady had a daughter who was willing to take her in, we would say “go and stay with your daughter.” The fact that you want to be independent is not a good reason for you to come and ask HDB for a rental flat. For those families who do not or cannot get along, we will refer them to the Family Service Centre to see whether they can provide counselling to make sure that the family can at least try to accommodate one another. In some cases, wedo exercise compassion, for example where there is a history of family violence.
http://app.reach.gov.sg/reach/YourSay/YourDiscussionCorner/tabid/117/ptid/414/page/66/totrecs/658/threadid/2427/forumtype/posts/Default.aspx
Dear HDB,
Can this old couple(The complaint letter from zaobao attached at below) rent HDB flat from EM Service Pte Ltd?
Recently one of my friend call E M’s agent because she wants to rent a room, but the agent told her that E M only rent out a whole unit, so she can’t rent a room from E M.
What is the rental rate if rent a whole unit from E M? For what I know their flats(SERS flat) are 3 room flats, so I guess it is about $1000/Mth, the children of this old couple has paid $1000/mth for them to rent, but recently can not afford already.
HDB has 75% shares of E M Service Pte Ltd, right? So I hope that HDB will reply whether this old couple and my friend can rent a room(not the whole unit) from E M service Pte Ltd’s SERS Flat?
For a couple(2 persons) or a single tenant, a room is very enough, you ask them(poor people) goto afford one more room for what? To increase their unnecessary expenditure?
If you persist that they need to rent whole unit then why those family staying at HDB interim rental housing have to share with another family? And the Single tenants also have to share with another single if they want to rent rental one room flat from HDB.
What is the different between the area of HDB interim rental housing(3 room flat) and E M service Pte Ltd 3 room flat? Is it because the 3 room flat of HDB interim rental housing is bigger so the tenants must share with other people, and the 3 room flat of E M Service Ptd Ltd are very small so it can only rent out the whole unit?
If you think the old couple should stay with thier child then do you have any method to ask their child to let their parents goto stay and respect their old parents?
========================================
http://www.zaobao.com/yl/yl100322_007.shtml
老人希望租组屋
（2010-03-22）
张恺展
受到“老来随子”这话的误导，我当年卖掉自已的组屋与儿子同住，现在才觉悟这是我一生最大的错误，感到十分后悔。
就凭儿子的一句话“爸妈你们跟我住”，我以为可以过着含饴弄孙的闲适日子，怎知与儿子共住了五年，因老伴的体障而失去在儿子家当“佣人” 的能力，于是，儿子竟六亲不认，与媳妇千方百计迫我与老伴离开他们的家。
儿子认为他不是独子，便说服他的两名兄姊，在自由市场租组屋给我与老伴居住，坚持一切用费由三人平均摊分，屋租1000多元，加上奉养父母的生活费，每名子女分担额近1000元。 一年后的今天，有的儿子不能在父母银行户头准期电子过账，甚至断一期付一期，幸好我与老伴各人还有一点养老本，否则日子就很难过了。
为了想减轻儿女的负担，也绝对不想再和儿女共住，因为共住久了将疏远骨肉情甚至变成陌路人。我曾多次会见两位国会议员(我从A区搬到B区)，向他们陈述我的处境，要求写信向建屋局申请租赁组屋，建屋局先后回信都拒绝，理由是从前我向建屋局购买的两个单位组屋，在自由市场卖出已得过好处，已失去向建屋局购买或租赁组屋的权利；而且审查发现，我三名儿女各自单位的组屋都有空房让父母同住。 如今，唯一的冀望是有社会善心人士伸出援手，能把多余的组屋合法租赁给我与老伴安度晚年，我们则不胜感激。
http://app.reach.gov.sg/reach/YourSay/YourDiscussionCorner/tabid/117/ptid/414/page/66/totrecs/658/threadid/2427/forumtype/posts/Default.aspx
Dear HDB,
Can this old couple(The complaint letter from zaobao attached at below) rent HDB flat from EM Service Pte Ltd?
Recently one of my friend call E M’s agent because she wants to rent a room, but the agent told her that E M only rent out a whole unit, so she can’t rent a room from E M.
What is the rental rate if rent a whole unit from E M? For what I know their flats(SERS flat) are 3 room flats, so I guess it is about $1000/Mth, the children of this old couple has paid $1000/mth for them to rent, but recently can not afford already.
HDB has 75% shares of E M Service Pte Ltd, right? So I hope that HDB will reply whether this old couple and my friend can rent a room(not the whole unit) from E M service Pte Ltd’s SERS Flat?
For a couple(2 persons) or a single tenant, a room is very enough, you ask them(poor people) goto afford one more room for what? To increase their unnecessary expenditure?
If you persist that they need to rent whole unit then why those family staying at HDB interim rental housing have to share with another family? And the Single tenants also have to share with another single if they want to rent rental one room flat from HDB.
What is the different between the area of HDB interim rental housing(3 room flat) and E M service Pte Ltd 3 room flat? Is it because the 3 room flat of HDB interim rental housing is bigger so the tenants must share with other people, and the 3 room flat of E M Service Ptd Ltd are very small so it can only rent out the whole unit?
If you think the old couple should stay with thier child then do you have any method to ask their child to let their parents goto stay and respect their old parents?
========================================
http://www.zaobao.com/yl/yl100322_007.shtml
…….
wow dumb and dumber, did he? Which point?
Anyway a quote from someone else
kamomo:
I think let’s see if these new measures have any impact on prices. MBT also has to consider everyone’s interest, including those who already own a HDB flat. I know those who have not bought wants the prices to drop 50% but that would put quite a lot of people who own a flat into negative equity. That would bring the whole economy to a tailspin. I think the 3 year lock-in makes an HDB flat, esp the “expensive” ones like Queenstown, very unattractive, so expensive and still so much restrictions. I suspect some of the demand will be channeled into private condos with no such restrictions and not much more expensive than HDB. Hopefully the HDB prices will start to “stabilise” but not collapse. Private condo prices will start to diverge. This is to be fair to everyone, including those who already own a flat with an existing housing loan.
Sometimes I think singaporeans are too mollycoddled. Do you guys know that even buying private condos which is an even bigger investment, sometimes you just have to settle for second best or third best because someone else has taken the best unit or the best units is not for sale? That is life – isn’t it? You give and take and move on. So if you have chances of choosing HDB flats but you choose to let them go because you only want that one and only unit, there is really nothing the government can do to help you. If you make a choice to wait for that one and only unit and that unit is no longer available, then don’t complain that you can’t get a flat right? Stop being spoilt brats.
@toel if u can buy free hold lor, but none of singapore flats had reached 99 years, and most older ones had already been bought back by the govt.
@down to earth
You bought it not at a ffordable prices, but at SUPER CHEAP prices. Times had changed, mata also don’t wear short pants, army uniform also change colour. Now demand is high, as you can see so much COV for resale, means HDB are undervalued by HDB and banks.
@IINAS
So you are using double standards here. So what are you implying? don’t beat around the bush. Like I’ve mentioned who here can find an investment better then the CPF? Even at 2.5%? There is none! If you migrate, they will refund ur cpf within 2 weeks, in fact CPF is aburden to the govt. If more pple can save properly for their own retirement, then we wouldnt need CPF.
Mr Mah’s no rental for the elderly with family is a serious policy failure.
Issues with in-laws are one of the reasons which contribute to couples quarrelling and going for divorce. By denying a rental flat to the elderly person, Mr Mah is therefore indirectly contributing to the climbing divorce rates in Singapore.
Also, I am sure that those of us who live in the HDB heartlands have seen elderly people loitering around the HDB void decks. Some of them look quite lonely and lost. At night, you can see them sleeping in the public areas.
When you talk to them, you often hear stories of how they could not get along with the younger generation and are therefore not welcome at home. They therefore loitter around the void decks, not wanting to go home.
By adopting a hard hearted policy of no rental flats for such elderly persons, Mr Mah causes great hardship to these elderly Singaporeans who cannot get along with their children.
I was very impressed with the way TOC interviewed and followed up on the story of the homeless at Sembawang Park. I hope that TOC can interview a few of such elderly people so that Singapore can know their story and the consequences of Mr Mah’s no rental policy.
//objectivity
as if Singaporeans don’t know how to choose and need you to tell them.
Perhaps that’s your job.
Talk only.
//Like I’ve mentioned who here can find an investment better then the CPF? Even at 2.5%?
any insurance policy with cash value return higher than 4% even if you buy at 30.
And they give you life protection.
And the monthly payment is fixed not like CPF and they sucked in a smaller amount.
// If you migrate, they will refund ur cpf within 2 weeks, in fact CPF is aburden to the govt.
As if it takes so fast without a penalty?
CPF is a burden to the govt and they charge an ever decreasing interest for it.
If the govt really think it is a burden, they should really release the CPF monies in totality to Singaporeans instead of losing them overseas at multiple times.
//objectivity
//you bought it not at a ffordable prices, but at SUPER CHEAP prices. Times had changed, mata also don’t wear short pants, army uniform also change colour.
Yeah, PAP pigs are nolonger sensible and reasonable but greedy and lazy pigs.
// most older ones had already been bought back by the govt.
How did he/she know this?
We all know where he comes from.
When my dad bought our first flat in Toa Payoh in 1975, he was earning a salary of $300. The flat, a three roomer, costs $7000. Mom didn’t work.
Assuming the ‘universal’ yardstick that a third of a family’s income goes into financial the flat every month, it would take him about 70 months, or roughly close to six years to pay off the flat. Which he did.
Thirty-five years later, someone holding a similar position and job as Dad then would probably earn around $2,500 now. A three-room HDB flat costs around $300,000. Using the same 1/3 yardstick, it would take him (assuming Mom’s not working) 360 months to finishing paying for the flat. Or 30 years.
At a glance, that’s like five times longer than what a person 35 years ago would take to finance the flat.
Times have indeed changed. Mata no longer wear shorts, but Armani pants.
Someone mentioned that if MBT had a one-on-one with Chee Soon Juan or Leong Sze Han, this MBT would have peed in his pants. Another said that the show hosts were too lenient with him.
Well, it is possible to see MBT pee in his pants and the show hosts grilling him. That possibility is in our hands. We just have to vote in more oppositions. When that happens, the TV station has to be unbias. Also, there were be more MSM than just SPH and Mediacorp.
“Like I’ve mentioned who here can find an investment better then the CPF? Even at 2.5%?”
If that is the case, save your 2.5% from now onwards. Just return my CPF as soon as possible.
“Sometimes I think singaporeans are too mollycoddled. ”
The exact thinking in me is strangely pointing to you & those of whom you are supportive.
“If more pple can save properly for their own retirement, then we wouldnt need CPF.”
Does it mean that for those who can prove that they have a certain amount of net worth comes a certain age with a good expenditure plan over some tentative (or imputed) remaining years of their lives, all CPF money shall be returned to them in one go.
If the board can come with some annuity plan to structure the flow of regular payments to the people over their remaining lives, what makes them think that some people (those that are able) can’t come up with their own personal plan.
objectivity,
March 22, 2010 03:36
“Even 8 hrs a day is $900 for 28 days. Imagine work 10 or even OT?”‘
wah, work 28 days a month, where is the work life balance? is it realistic to expect people to accept their lot just like this? also $900 after CPF contribution is too little.
you have to get it out of your head that employees have the final say in how much OT 1 chooses. for adults with kids, people have a life outside work & a home to maintain. with such salary do you think they can afford a foreign maid?
when quoting examples & highlighting only the obvious, you fail to take into account lots of nitty-gritty details that does not seem to make a significant impact, but such things are added, they give a very different picture. 1 that is more real & doesn’t lend much support to your example.
“Remember that if you can afford to be choosy, means that you are not in dire need of a place to stay aka you can still live with your family etc. Those that are truely homeless would just take any of the units available.”
objectivity,
March 22, 2010 03:36
“Remember that if you can afford to be choosy, means that you are not in dire need of a place to stay aka you can still live with your family etc. Those that are truely homeless would just take any of the units available.”
remember my question in post [mice is nice, March 22, 2010 01:50]
from my post:
“what is the goal of HDB? have HDB achieved it goals….?”
hello, 1st world country have housing policies that takes pleasure driving people to desperation? must people beg with bended knees to appease our dear leaders? moving into a relative’s home is not some short hotel stay where a luggage (+1 hand carry) is all 1 will need.
can you tell me how does the truel homeless just take any units available? are there such units for the homeless?
@mice is nice
I apologize at my statement, what i meant was that someone in dire need of a house, not only the homeless
HDB is tasked with providing everyone with housing, again it is not tasked to maximize our potential investment returns from real estate
@ another singaporean
I think my reply to u had been moderated, here it is again.
Like I’ve mentioned who here can find an investment better then the CPF? Even at 2.5%?”
If that is the case, save your 2.5% from now onwards. Just return my CPF as soon as possible. – and then become a burden to society? Dont come crawling back for welfare.
I think you are the one that is mollycoddled, because read, I quoted that from another commentor. But why didnt u comment on the rest of the statement which makes sense.
“If more pple can save properly for their own retirement, then we wouldnt need CPF.”
Does it mean that for those who can prove that they have a certain amount of net worth comes a certain age with a good expenditure plan over some tentative (or imputed) remaining years of their lives, all CPF money shall be returned to them in one go.
Exactly, why was MS implemented? Because of 55yos splurging and spending the money on mistresses many years back. Don’t you remember? And then they turn to govt to help after that. Can we trust them with personally financial planning? If you can financial plan, then CPF shouldnt even be an issue, because it would had been part of your financial planning.
@mice is nice
Again, this is the macdonald index. If you work 10 hours, you can earn a thousand plus. need not OT. This does not mean that everyone has to follow this, but minimally you can achieve this since
1. Mcdonalds is always hiring (from what I see)
2. Mcdonalds require no skill no education level and even 14yo can join
There fore, like the burger price index, we can use this as a benchmark. You can tweak the figures for your comfort. My parents are working 363 days a year 12 hrs a day fyi, and they don’t complain. Why can they do it and we must complain? We want this we want that, we want everything but not willing to sacrifice time, energy and effort for it. Of course everyone want high pay, at home kiao ka shake leg do nothing sleep eat job. If you want something, go get it. If you don’t want to sacrifice, then shut up.
Objectivity,
There are many people who work 365 days a year 12 hours a day and they barely make ends meet. Please stop using your parents as yardstick. Dun forget when they started out, it was also back in the 70s – where housing was cheaper. A similar family starting out making what your parents might have earned back then – adjusting for wage inflations – might not have survived.
I would love to see you, when you eventually get married and start a family to work 365 days a week for 12 hours straight for 30 years,both you and your future wife… and not complain.
objectivity,
March 22, 2010 23:17
thanks for clarifying. dire need of a home/house. if HDB is part of nation building, it should not penalise people who are in tight situations. people who are constantly left with little or no choice (& to accept their lot) seldom break out of their psychological shackles. it is a tragic waste of people power- the potential power that may bring glory, wealth & make a good impression on foreigners, etc. to compete globally in an ever more competitive world, S’pore can ill afford this.
there will always be some who just like to test the system or abuse it. but HDB or any govt agency should take it in their stride to improve on flaws that these people “uncover”. tighten controls, but also strike a balance so the number of controls do not let people who need a home slip through the net.
i am not so sure about HDB maximising returns. i have my doubts. HDB will have the uphill task of being more transparent. on cost & profit (& losses, if any).
March 22, 2010 03:36
“HDB also sells by psf, but obviously 2 room is smaller then 3 room etc.”
1st question, your nick is Jack also? o.O
HDB sells psf? really?
over the decades a home with same number of rooms have smaller (bed)rooms. also, if psf a room is smaller, cant HDB built homes with higher ceiling (a reasonable 1.5 feet)? give & take lah, very claustrophobic…. >.<
objectivity,
March 22, 2010 23:26
“My parents are working 363 days a year 12 hrs a day fyi, and they don’t complain.”
i wun even know if what you say is true… & if it is, why are you not giving them a better life? they spoil you too much? :p
“Why can they do it and we must complain?”
let me guess, by looking at the many old folks who work at foodcourts or public toilets…. their children more or less abandoned them when they are no longer of any use? & they have no choice (a term you so like to use) but to take up any job however tough to live another day…
“We want this we want that, we want everything but not willing to sacrifice time, energy and effort for it.”
getting impatient liao? now you also complain for complaining’s sake ah? :p