Comments on: ST and LHZB censor Chee’s letter on PAP undermining Singapore’s interests

By: enigmatic

enigmatic — Wed, 07 Apr 2010 08:44:50 +0000

ST aka Strayed Times lah

By: Dumb and dumber

Dumb and dumber — Thu, 25 Mar 2010 14:46:22 +0000

One more thing:

“In it, he acknowledged that he received some funds from foreign sources for research work”
Source: http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/Singapore/Story/STIStory_496175.html

The question was never “did you receive overeas funding from foreigner whom would wants to intervene in Singapore politics”. It was did you receive oversea funding? Please tell me what’s the different between the two based on your understanding… it will help me understand you ability to comprehend facts.

By: Dumb and dumber

Dumb and dumber — Thu, 25 Mar 2010 14:39:06 +0000

Hi,

“The way that the report is written is clearly an attempt to portray me as being evasive about my income. I had told the LHZB reporter, Ms Yew Lun Tian, clearly that I depended on my books and from time to time, help from my relatives for survival.”

My question to you is…. writing books and research classify technically can be under “receiving overseas funding?”, isn’t it a trick question itself?

Putting the same logic back to you, why doesn’t the reporter ask “are you receiving funds from foreigner whom are trying to intervene with Singapore politics?”

BTW, singapore is a small city state… so easy for CSJ to hide all those money without the knowledge of PAP hor…. CSJ must have kept the money “invisible” and he can turn it visible as he will it.

Why doesn’t you go and ask temasek why their administrative expenses is SGD$8b for 380 staff for year 2009 alone? They should learn from CSJ to teach them how to turn the money “invisible”.

By: saiber

saiber — Wed, 24 Mar 2010 09:03:37 +0000

@dumb and dumber
Thanks for the research. While informative, it does nothing to disprove the transcript, merely to show the affiliations of the reporter.
What is illustrative is that CSJ has posted a reply on his website. And at no point does he say that the transcript is not true. If the transcript is falsified, why wouldn’t he bring up that fact in his response to the transcript?
Logically, you have to then assume the transcript is true. (Of course, your particular brand of critical thinking might yield a different end point. I look forward to reading it.)
Given that, the question is whether you can believe that CSJ’s explanation for his answer is believable.
“I hestitated to tell Ms Yew these details because they were personal. The fact that she works for my political opponents who never felt any compunction in ruining my life and career makes it even harder to talk to her about such personal matters.”
Since when did “Are you receiving overseas funding?” become such a difficult personal question to answer.

By: Sylvester Lim

Sylvester Lim — Wed, 24 Mar 2010 05:23:46 +0000

http://www.yoursdp.org/index.php/news/singapore/3525-i-believe-in-singapore-chee-responds-to-lhzb-reporter
I believe in Singapore: Chee responds to LHZB reporter
“I hestitated to tell Ms Yew these details because they were personal. The fact that she works for my political opponents who never felt any compunction in ruining my life and career makes it even harder to talk to her about such personal matters.”

By: Dumb and dumber

Dumb and dumber — Wed, 24 Mar 2010 03:06:25 +0000

Profile of Yew Lun Tian – Direct employment of SPH

Political Correspondent
Singapore Press Holdings
(Public Company; 1001-5000 employees; Newspapers industry)
Currently holds this position

Source: http://sg.linkedin.com/in/luntian

Yew Lun Tian is also a panel member of Singapore Cut Waste Panel directly under the Minister of Finance whereby the other members include other PAP MPs, Perm Secretary and SPH employees.

Source: http://www.cutwaste.gov.sg/aboutus.html
Source: http://www.cutwaste.gov.sg/contact.html

A reporter under direct employment under SPH – controlled by the PAP government, and with direct affiliation with PAP party, it’s plain obvious her motive and intention is questionable.

Moreover, which part of the Journalism ethics and standards has Yew Lun Tian demonstrated to make herself even credible?

truthfulness?
accuracy?
objectivity?
impartiality?
fairness?
and public accountability?

Journalism ethics and standards (Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journalism_ethics_and_standards)

If I take the above transcript as being true.(And I do).
>> You definitely have demonstrated that you can “think” critically, LOL…

By: (-_-)

(-_-) — Tue, 23 Mar 2010 11:06:46 +0000

@ saiber

u think he has something to hide, i think that he is just not media savvy enough to present himself well.

i will reiterate that CSJ has not been found of wrongdoing yet, and i do not think that LKY will pass up a chance to throw CSJ behind bars.

so, maybe u can help LKY by reporting to the police saying that u suspect that CSJ is under the influence of a foreign power because of somebody’s post.

i see the need for transparency, and would like to see how CSJ gets his money, and what he writes.

and no, i do not trust anything the MSM in SG has to say because of obvious reasons.

@ NewFrontier

election wat. so must create a monster to bash it.

By: NewFrontier

NewFrontier — Tue, 23 Mar 2010 10:52:43 +0000

So what if Chee receives funding from overseas…The PAP allows foreigners to “develop” Singapore and also through Temasek Holdings does likewise, by funding Australian political parties via Optus… So who is funding who?

Full of crap from this PAP government nowdays

By: saiber

saiber — Tue, 23 Mar 2010 10:52:07 +0000

The tactic is: when one has nothing left to say in one argument (about whether or not CSJ has anything to hide), start arguing about something else (whether PAP interferes with other countries).
Of course, your latest comment introduces the third argument of whether or not the transcript is a lie. I grant you that all my comments so far have been taken from the point of view that the transcript is nor a lie. But I guess we can wait and see whether CSJ disputes it.
Also, it might be helpful if we try and argue about one thing at a time.

By: (-_-)

(-_-) — Tue, 23 Mar 2010 10:38:28 +0000

@saiber

wat do u mean by same tactic? then would this not be a tactic from the PAP to discredit CSJ, to give the impression that local opposition are bought by foreign countries?

u r just basing your views on CSJ just because somebody released a “transcript” that could’ve been edited.

the fact is CSJ has not been charged for any wrong doing (maybe the police are sleeping), and, as ppl on here have pointed out, the dirty PAP government has been interfering with other countries also.

therefore, since u r so concerned, make a police report.

By: saiber

saiber — Tue, 23 Mar 2010 10:23:00 +0000

(-_-) always the same tactic. It gets like this when people have no arguments to make on the matter.
talking to dumb and dumber is so much more gratifying.

By: (-_-)

(-_-) — Tue, 23 Mar 2010 09:58:19 +0000

@ saiber

then go ahead and investigate it, or ask the SPH to do it. can tell the police also.

while u r at it, investigate, or ask the SPH to investigate if SG did fund other countries’ opposition. im pretty sure that SG will not want to go to war with other countries.

By: saiber

saiber — Tue, 23 Mar 2010 09:48:45 +0000

It’s actually quite simple for me.
If I take the above transcript as being true.(And I do). then in my mind, it more likely than not CSJ has something to hide.
That’s all.

By: Dumb and dumber

Dumb and dumber — Tue, 23 Mar 2010 09:42:11 +0000

Hi Saiber,

“The reporter who did the CSJ interview put up a transcript of the interview on facebook: To me it reads like he has something to hide, but dumb and dumber will probably disagree.”
This is a discussion forum, and in my opinion, it doesn’t matter if I agree or disagree. I am here to learn. I agree we can disagree.

The argument:
Does CSJ have foreign backing? – i.e. foreigner are trying to intervene with Singapore politics via CSJ thus providing him funds and support”.
The above is a very serious allegation and an offence that can be charged with treason.

All you can produce is a transcript from LHZB reporter that prove nothing but another series of insinuation and allegations? Please tell me you didn’t know that LHZB is under SPH controlled by the government?

By: saiber

saiber — Tue, 23 Mar 2010 09:14:51 +0000

the reporter who did the CSJ interview put up a transcript of the interview on facebook: To me it reads like he has something to hide, but dumb and dumber will probably disagree.

Q: If you don’t mind me asking you a very rude question, but it’s something my readers want to know. The perception is that you are bankrolled, funded, by overseas money. Would you like to use this chance to tell them…
A: (interrupts) I’m just saying, come and buy my books. That’s how I, I get my income. And, and I keep telling people, go down to the book stores, Kinokuniya and Select. If people don’t buy, it’s hard for me to… I’ve been selling books for the last decade. On the streets. You’ve seen me, I don’t know if you’ve seen me.

Q: So you’re saying your income comes from the sales of your books.
A: Most of it. Sometimes I keep telling people, I don’t live a .. life.

Q: Is it ok if I write that you live in Toa Payoh..?
A: Yeah it’s ok. I live very simply. Life choices, I’ve made my choice.

Q: Do you mind me asking how many room flat?
A: That’s ah ah ah… But it’s a very humble… It is no secret, it is a three-room flat. I make very simple life choice. We don’t live glamorously. We get by. But the important thing is we put the resources into the cause I fight for.

Q: People may find it hard to think you can keep a family, just on books.
A: Whatever I can live on. Sometimes we get help, I mean not help lah. People, relatives and so on and so forth. It does get into a, a…

Q: So people are wrong to say you’ve been getting money?
A: I don’t know, where do you get this. People keep saying. I don’t..

Q: If they are wrong, then I can write that they are wrong. I’ll say they are wrong.
A: No, I mean, I’ve always write as an academic, you get research, you apply for research grants. I’ve gone overseas. I’ve got some awards for writing. Had stints overseas where fellowships that kind of thing. These things all helped a bit. I write research grants that kind of thing.

Q: Research on democracy?
A: er, other things lah. Not just, different areas as well.

Q: Which areas? Psychology?
A: Sometimes they are all related, human behavior, different things.

By: SG in UK

SG in UK — Sat, 20 Mar 2010 21:30:05 +0000

CSJ is not the one who was paid millions by Singaporean and still, sitting on TH and GIC made billions of losses and yet which, in my opinions, need scrutiny, transparancy and accountability!

By: (-_-)

(-_-) — Sat, 20 Mar 2010 04:04:19 +0000

@ Alan

this is called politics 101. do whatever one needs/wants to other countries to secure one’s positioning quietly, while saying that such things must not be done in one’s own country.

hypocrisy, double standards, propaganda, suppression of opposition, controlling what is said in the media, taxing people a lot, building public houses and selling the units most likely overpriced, taking people’s money in the form of CPF, COE, ERP, while taking millions of dollars in pay, etc… all the while targeting CSJ.

no one puts it better than Adolf Hitler.

By the skillful and sustained use of propaganda, one can make a people see even heaven as hell or an extremely wretched life as paradise.
– Adolf Hitler

The art of leadership consists in consolidating the attention of the people against a single adversary and taking care that nothing will split up that attention.
– Adolf Hitler

only a few have woken up from the Wonderland where PAP is everything good, nice, and lovely.

By: Alan Wong

Alan Wong — Sat, 20 Mar 2010 03:06:59 +0000

What is exactly wrong if the donation is for something which the donor believe in ?

China would not be what it is today, if the overseas Chinese did not donate to overthrow the imperial government of that time. Do we ever have a problem with these donations ?

We have heard in the news that Singapore also donates generously to the Australian opposition parties through nominees and proxies in the hope that SIA will get what it always wanted – lucrative air rights.

How come we can do it in other countries but don’t allow others to do likewise in Singapore ?

Double standards is what we are famous for, isn’t it ?

By: Dumb and dumber

Dumb and dumber — Sat, 20 Mar 2010 01:29:58 +0000

dumb and dumber, so if I understand you correctly:
1. it has been made crystal clear that csj survives solely on book money and the kindness of friends and relatives.
>> Is there any empirical evidence to suggest otherwise?

2. there is absolutely nothing questionable about the way he answered the questions. (if it is a little off, is not right to be a little suspicious?)
>> There is no perfect way of answering a question. We have our so many elites saying all the wrong things like “Mee siam mai hum”, “Cheaper, faster, better”, “lesser mortal”, “HDB is affordable”, “retire in JB” and the “get of our my elite uncaring face”, etc – what does it tells you, or in short, what can you learn from all these? Human is perfect?

Ok, in that case, I’m not as certain as you are.
>> That’s where our views differ. I am not pursuing certainty or any constant variable of the parallel universe, cos life is an ever changing universe.

And also you decided that because the PAP did not take action, therefore he def does not have foreign backers.
>> There is no evidence ever produced to date, and CSJ has refuted the claim. As a civilized society and mature intellectual, what else do you need?
I don’t see how this insinuation is any more valid than mine, asking if CSJ might have something to hide from the way he answered the question. We both insinuated la.
>> I beg to differ, my argument is based on facts, I did not insinuate anything. The argument we have here is that “does CSJ have foreign backing – i.e. foreigner are trying to intervene with Singapore politics via CSJ thus providing him funds and support”. Empirical evidence is important, or you’re suggesting we go witch-hunting?

Only part that puzzles me is why you are so ready to insinuate on one hand yet so willing to take CSJ at face value on the other.
>> Insinuate – imply, suggest, make out, hint, intimate, indicate. As I mentioned, I have wished you all the best in your pursuit. Do share with the forum on your empirical evidence. If it’s just an opinion, please kindly state so as well.

As an aside, I see this as an example of internet polarisation. I started more or less neutral on this matter, but I feel pushed more and more to a view I never started off with in the first place.
>> I beg to differ again. I believe only the truth can WITHSTAND questioning. Keep questioning and think critically is what I ever hope for.

By: A Tan

A Tan — Fri, 19 Mar 2010 21:29:33 +0000

I think ST did him a favour by insisting on cutting out the bit abt PAP.
I read the ST Forum reply and tot it a gd reply by Dr Chee. Short and sharp rebuttal.
In this version, that rebuttal is lost.