The following is a report by Channelnewsasia which reported MCYS minister Dr Vivian Balakrishan’s response to questions in Parliament about the homeless issue. The minister said: “Some irresponsible websites have also caused these falsehoods to circulate widely on the internet. Now that the facts are out, let us see whether those who have been propagating these falsehoods have the courage and the honesty to set the record straight.”
It is unclear what these “irresponsible websites” which the minister was referring to are. We assume The Online Citizen, which ran a one-week focus on the homeless, is one of these “irresponsible websites.”
We will respond to the minister’s comments in due course.
Here is the Channelnewsasia report:
Govt takes Al Jazeera to task for misreporting on homelessness cases
SINGAPORE: International news agency, Al Jazeera, has been taken to task for not checking its facts in its report on the homeless in Singapore.
Speaking in Parliament on Tuesday, Community Development, Youth and Sports Minister Vivian Balakrishnan stressed that homelessness is a complex problem and that the government will continue to enable people to be self-reliant.
A video titled “Government Policies Force Some Onto The Streets” was produced by Al Jazeera.
It featured a couple camping on the beach, claiming that they had been homeless for nearly two years as a result of divorce proceedings.
The government then made some checks and found a different story.
The man in the video had made a tidy sum of over S$220,000 from the sale of three flats. Meanwhile, the woman still owns an HDB resale flat with her ex-husband.
She was also getting financial help from the South West Community Development Council.
Dr Balakrishnan said: “Despite these circumstances, the social workers and the FSC then offered sheltered housing for this couple. However, the couple rejected the offer and other services offered by MCYS.
“This is a clear example where a foreign media has failed to ascertain the facts. Some irresponsible websites have also caused these falsehoods to circulate widely on the internet. Now that the facts are out, let us see whether those who have been propagating these falsehoods have the courage and the honesty to set the record straight.
“Homelessness or potential homelessness is a universal threat all over the world. The question is how best to fix this.
“In Singapore, we have given housing, cheap affordable rental housing as well as heavily-subsidised first-time entry into home ownership.
“The people we have who insist on staying in beaches and parks are not first timers and not people who have bought their first flat or first rental flat. These are people who have almost always sold their second flat or a third flat, have unfortunately dissipated the subsidies and cashed them and now have run into problems.
“Members would have faced this problem which almost become emotional blackmail.”
Meanwhile, Al Jazeera has ceased to operate its channel on mio TV.
This prompted Nominated MP Viswa Sadasivan to ask about the talk that this is linked to the report on the homeless.
Acting Minister for Information, Communication and the Arts, Lui Tuck Yew, said: “On the speculation that recent critical or negative reports by Al Jazeera were the reason why the channel was taken off mio TV service, this is unfounded. In a report by TODAY, Al Jazeera itself was quoted as saying that “it was a ‘mutual’ decision between Al Jazeera and SingTel for the broadcaster to drop out of the latter’s pay TV service.”
Mr Lui noted that Al Jazeera’s contract with SingTel was coming to an end and was looking into other distribution avenues in view of its low subscriber households. – CNA/vm
—————
Here is the Al Jazeera report which the minister was referring to:
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To ridiculous
Because I’ve sold my soul and work for the govt.
I was one of the MSOs who had to investigate them. And Vivian did not tell 100% of the full story. The couple decided to live in the tent, because of HDB’s laws, they are not eligible to rent or purchase a flat. And they have insufficient funds to purchase a private property. Also, they assumed they are not breaking any laws and are trying (as they claimed) to save money.
Only the woman, requested for assistance from CDC and not the man. She was a divorcee and wanted a rental flat. However the CDC is not the correct place to request for a rental flat. The CDC did however offer some temporary financial assistance.
The couple was offered a shelter at Pelangi Home, but they would have to go through a battery of counselling and will have to stay there until they are able to find a home of their own. However, movement in Pelangi Home is closely monitored as it is a shelter for the destitutes (beggars, people abandoned their families, the mentally ill and former drug-addicts).
MYCS do not wholely fund NGOs (NGOs would have to apply for funds from MYCS but is subject to very tight rules and conditions). MYCS do not provide direct help to needy people. Often, needy people are redirected to NGOs. The huge red tape due to purposely-made inflexible laws and regulations prevent many NGOs and needy people seeking help from MYCS. So often, many try to go at it alone.
That is why our statistics are very skewered towards successes than failures; and we have often been told, the needy people are asking for help because it’s their fault and not our priority. Thats is why we treat everyone on a case by case basis and there is no proper standard operating procedure to help such people. If you are needy, and your case happened to be handled by a bo chap or hardened bureaucrat – too bad for you.
I think most of us can remember our NS time where soldiers reporting to Medical Centre are viewed as malingerer first and patient second. Well that’s how we view the needy. By the way, if the needy is handled by an NGO, their case would not be in our govt. records so it would mean they would not show up in our statistics.
I salute, the volunteers from the NGOs who took the time, and help out such people by filling up all the necessary forms and send hundreds of appeal letters to help such people, given the limited funds they had.
Anyways, I’ve already received a poor performance letter from my Department for volunteering in an NGO (they claim it’s failure to divulge my extra-activities that may cause conflict of interests), so I will be leaving soon.
Hello inverted_CPF
read properly, AFTER he squandered away the money how to rent? Like out dear friend who rented a BUNGALOW in malaysia, bought a CAR, opened a western shop wanna be boss, in the end never turn out well, then want govt to rescue him again.
Yes, some rental flat not bad, free water, very cheap somemore, where to get?
And GIC/TH has nothing to do with this. So you are saying all these homeless people are hypocritical? I believe so.
@inverted_CPF
The existing system discourages people from using rental flats as the refuge of first resort.
Rental flats are a heavily subsidized commodity, and should be reserved for the disabled, the elderly, the people who cannot take care of themselves. (Market rate = $600 per month. Rental rate = $26 per month.)
As the old folks say, these people wu3 ka1 wu3 qiu4. (Have hands have legs)
Just to point out VB did not single out the couple just to make his case. the couple were the ones who went on air on Al Jazeera. i think if Al Jazeera (or TOC) were to pick a case study to highlight the situation, they should ensure they pick the right case. Hopefully, TOC will be able to come up with counter-arguements to VB’s points.
@inverted_CPF
If they have money, why should anyone subsidise for them? they are depriving the many other people who need the house more, just because they are selfish. (if it’s true). i don’t see how anyone can sympathize if people are simply being cheapskate and not wanting to use their own money.
the more ambiguous situation is when they had money before but squandered it away. the big question is should we be charitable and yet induce moral hazard?
Most of you are worng.
The rental flats don’t charge $26 or 30.
Its market rates now, $200 and above for those with some small income and no such thing a free water or cc.
Second, if someone is jobless for 2 years or more, and has a flat, any them flat, would that person be able to survive, paying something like 80 for pub bill and 36-58 for cc charges, plus t.v. tax and what else.
It makes sense to sell and rent, maybe malaysia, or thailand or batam and if the amount is 220k, then buying a cheap house in malaysia is sensible,plus owning a motobike to get around.
Third, suggest anyone out there, non believers, to look no further than bras brasah road , victoria street hdb flats in the middle of the night, 1am to see for yourself the homeless, why 1am, because if its earlier, there are too many nosy people around and the police checking on them, asking them to move along, remember we are living in a police state. Maybe someone with a cam corder to get so called “proofs”
Anyway, as we all know, there are plenty of PMETs unemployed for years, so what are they doing, asking for money here and there, i suggest you ask yourself same question should you fall into such trap, created by our “voted gov”.
remember, do remember, its our gov asking all of us to own a flat, buy a flat, to have a stake in our country.
did they tell you can have a job until you drop dead, to have a stake ???
is it wrong to sell a flat because you have no job and in the process of divorce.???
Is it wrong or offence to camp on the beach at changi or pasir ris, with or without a home even have a campervan park.????
why must it be that all things have to be regulated in such restrictive ways and manners, are we all animals.???
One homeless case debunked. But how about the hundreds (thousands maybe?) of cases of genuine homelessness?
tsk! tsk! tsk! see how they can come out to continue lying to the public even when the truth is all out there happening to real people in singapore. A liar is always a liar but more and more people already knows whats been hidden away and cover ups by using the MSM shitty time and CNA which is solely controlled by the ruling party all these years.
Why is it that this blog always attacked the government in everything they do? Yes the government is not perfect, but dun forget the government did good things too.So please be balanced in the way you feel the government. please give credits to the government when it is due and not attacked. You think it is easy to run a country. try running it yourself and see if you can do a better job
Why is it that this blog always attacked the government in everything they do? Yes the government is not perfect, but dun forget the government did many good things too.So please be balanced in the way you talk about the government. please give credits to the government when it is due and not attacked. You think it is easy to run a country. try running it yourself and see if you can do a better job. Well please do not be angry with me for saying this. I am not saying this blog is no good. What i am saying is please be rational. If you guys think through deep, you will know that our government has done many good things for singapore. Yes they are not perfect. But which government in the world is perfect? I hope everyone in this blog will reflect over what they say. Singapore is one of the safest place to live in, as compared to other SEA countries. Please guy reflect over what you say. Dun be childish
@eaglefly
http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10323p.nsf/w/RentDirectHDBRentDeposit?OpenDocument
It’s $26 per month for a rental flat. EVEN IF you’re looking at the HIGHEST rate, it’s still significantly less than the existing market rate.
The INTERNATIONAL standard for housing is 30% of your income. Meaning a low income earner making $1,500 has to fork out almost $500 a month for housing.
And mind you, in Singapore, it’s to service the mortgage, so at the end of 30 years, you OWN the flat.
In other countries, it’s to pay RENT. So after 30 years, you end up with nothing.
If it is true that the alleged couple appeared in the AJ news had rejected helps from our MIWs, they should not be appearing on the news. However, media is about story spinning. Didn’t our MSM (ST/SPH) over-sensationalized our views/sentiments about some gahmen policies time after time ??? Are they ‘unfounded’ too ???
Every people entitles to their own views & opinions regardless of country of origins. So does any media workers. If one day US(CNN) reports such thing about SG, will our gahmen do the same ?? Sue them ?? they may claimed that they are doing ‘impromptu interviews…etc’.
I do believe for one nowadays even to rent a room is not easy as all prices are up due to inflation(HDB’s clever policies etc…)BUT our wages are still STAGNANT.
I feels Lui Tuck Yew’s previous claims of ‘…insufficient ownership of AJ….’ to the current one ‘…the reason why the channel was taken off mio TV service,..’ UNMATCHED. Even if he was to wait for the investigation result to be out, he could have told us so but instead i felt he chose to say otherwise.
That makes me feels if our politicians are speaking the right thing at the right time ??????????????????
Contradictions.
Criticisms will makes us stronger but shunting them away may sees us weaker!
Just my personal views & opinions!
My question is how in the world did MCYS knwo who this couple is given that their faces were not revealed on the Al Jazeera program???
devil is in the details and what MCYS provided from their “checks” seems little to show any conclusion different to what Al-Jazeerah screened
“The man in the video had made a tidy sum of over S$220,000 from the sale of three flats”
thats accumulating what he made over a long period of time (it takes long time to buy and sell 3 flats). he is obviously driven to the beach due to some major final shock in life which seems to be the divorce. so why bother telling me how he did well before the storm that tore him apart and left him desperate. you are trying to justify that a person facing life difficulties and severe life shocks does not need help if he had a better life before that. it makes no sense.
“Meanwhile, the woman still owns an HDB resale flat with her ex-husband”
she obviously cant live with her ex-husband so her ownership of the flat makes no difference to the issue. it just shows she and her ex-husband havent legally sorted out the housing.
“She was also getting financial help from the South West Community Development Council.”
what kind of help is that? given the kind of meagre financial help MCYS related public entities give, it wont be surprising that she had to live on the beach. obviously South West Community Development Council’s assistance financial program is not effective.
they say you can fool some people some of the time but not everyone all the time. whatever explanation PAP MPs may give, the last 15 years of PAP rule have exposed us to be able to differentiate between excuses and realities, ineffective policies and propaganda.
“The INTERNATIONAL standard for housing is 30% of your income. Meaning a low income earner making $1,500 has to fork out almost $500 a month for housing.”
You referring to private housing or public housing? Please give more concrete data?
colin wang 28 April 2010
you will know that our government has done many good things for singapore.
……………………………
and what are the GOODs many things?
goods N service tax perhaps?
give credits DUED?..you meant pay gst on credit card?
They were offered shelter, but turned it down? Was it a 3 star, 4 star or 5 star accommodation?
“So please be balanced in the way you talk about the government”
Yeah sure, like the “balanced way the government talks about alternate view points.
“You think it is easy to run a country. try running it yourself and see if you can do a better job”
Dumb statement, you think the PAP will give anyone a chance ?
“Singapore is one of the safest place to live in, as compared to other SEA countries”
Ha ha ha, yeah, as safe as Baghdad under Saddam Hussien, I don’t see anyone rushing to give him the Nobel prize.
The following are more likely the reason(s) why Al Jazeera left. (source: http://www.contentasia.tv/pdf/Emag/94.ContentAsia_12-25April2010.pdf)
After two painful, low-visibility years, 24-hour news channel Al Jazeera English has quit Singapore. There’s the official reason for Al Jazeera’s disappearance from SingTel mio TV’s line up at the beginning of April: something about commercial
feasibility, viewership, ongoing review of channels and line-ups…
Then there are the other reasons, the ones most believe are the real cause behind
the Doha-based global channel’s decision to exit the market.
Chief of these is that Al Jazeera English bosses simply couldn’t get past Singapore
media authorities’ refusal to grant a license that would allow the channel to operate outside a narrow a la carte zone.
An added dampener to commercial ambitions was killer limitations put on channel promotions. Taken together, the operating restrictions virtually pushed the
mute button Al Jazeera English voice in Singapore. No official subscription figures
have been disclosed, but best guesses were that they were in the low double digits.
Al Jazeera simply said that the take up of the English channel was so low it did not make financial sense to continue.
There is no indication that the few viewers the channel had complained about the content.
Al Jazeera has always claimed to offer a responsible voice that constructively adds to the diversity, perspective and opinion of world news.
A channel spokesperson said “while we are disappointed to be pulling out of Singapore, we remain hopeful that the values AJE stands for values will in time
be welcomed by Singapore. As the regions media hub we also hope that Singapore can in future treat all international news channels equally.”
Although disappointed, Al Jazeera wouldn’t have been surprised by the Singapore government’s heel-dragging position on mass access to the Englishlanguage
service. The low-key and limited license approval in 2007 followed a 12-month “review” process.
@mic o mic
Everyone will have their own personal bias. Even you. Your words speak for themselves.
Hi Ridiculous,
-
An open discussion will allow the audience, people like you and me, a better shot at discerning who is stating facts, and who is telling lies. If in the course of such an open discussion, VB is to tell the audience, you and me, that so-and-so has stashed away an $X amount of money he had made from selling his hdb flat, then don’t you think so-and-so would have to stand up to him if this is not so?
-
But if so-and-so is to tell the audience, you and me, that he had met with ridiculous (no pun intended) red-tapes, or superficial help, or being tai-chied from one government agency to another, resulting in the predicament he lands himself in, then it will be up to VB to discredit such an accusation and stand himself up for the scrutiny that will vindicate whatever he had publicly uttered.
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There is no need to go super-hyper-critical with what you have suggested.
Bala, you jus confirm 4 me yr true character..you are shit!..you hve lost my respect…F. O. out of my face.
All them ministers live in the land of “hairy” dreams. Aircond home into aircond cars into aircond classy hairy office into aircond car again and back into aircond hairy homes again!
Hey VB, have ever gone out to poor areas you SHOULD VERY WELL know in tinny island to see for yourself? go in your singlet, short pants, cheap slippers and hair a little ruffled okay. Then you WILL see the realities at ground level.
And when you go back to your church Sunday services your head won’t be holding that high anymore. Unless you still have that hairy “stubb” inside your head! And don’t stop at one or stop at two per your first 2 PMs haw! As that will be “once bitten twice shy” of Minister who happens to be a Christian too and not showing much for his faith in God haw! ACTIONS DO SPEAK LOUDER THAN MERE WORDS YAH! Jesus did say that “The fileds and the harvest are big but the workers are few” leh!
Lovers of God DON’T slam others like you do yah! Am I being seditious? Just encouraging you lah!
Gordon Brown just got caught live for uttering a disgusting comment moments after sharing niceties with a voter.
How come is it that other major leaders always get caught for their slightest indiscretions but here our so-called leaders- minnows by the standards of developed nations doesnt get caught?
I hope God exposes those hidden stuff under the rug kind of thingys soon, to the shame of the exploiters.
Vivian Balak was once a TV debater during the times when my grandpa was in JC. They say he was good…a debater that is and also became a scholar.
Would he be able to take on the giants like Jeyaretnam (the new guy double honors from Cambridge, in charge of a new party), the Worker Party Chief and even Dr. Chee the disqualified guy as I understood…….in an open live telecast debate without any threats of arrest or judicial persecution when they lose the debate.
I think they sure lose the debate because they have so many cans in the worm, can run can scold but sure cannot hide their hide.
Yes as rightly pointed out, you are WRONG. Those you mentioned are probably interim housing, which is rented to those who have temporary accommodation problem, but
If you cannot afford, you can downgrade. If you out of job, find a job.
Then go to malaysia. Singapore is Singapore, how to compare? Singapore cannot build HDB in malaysia. Might as well compare to Africa? 200k, youll be a millionaire there, better yet in Zimbabwe.
Police conduct patrols, you complain police state. They don’t patrol you complain security no good, police paid to do nothing. Why don’t you go record yourself?
And unemployed PMETs, so how you want to help them? They have to get a job what? You guys don’t want a nanny state but wants the govt to spoon feed you everything. So give everyone free housing, free meals, free utilities, everything free la, thats what you seem to be hinting.
Finally, what have YOU done for the homeless? Have you donated part of your income for them to tide through? Have you offered to clear up one of your rooms or give a temporary housing in your living room for one or two of them?
I guess thats Singaporeans, you want others to do it, but not yourself. You expect others to record “police in action”, but refuse to do the dirty job yourself. You expect others to help the homeless while you sit at home and talk big but do nothing. In dialect we call this “Tua pao” or big cannon.
Bravo Incredulous. I hope you’ll recover back your soul and continue to really help those in need, for the reward has no measure.
@Ridiculous,
Your avatar name says it all. So nuff said. Rebutting your comments would be a waste of time for anyone, so do everyone a favour and stop knocking down yourself.
By the way, I have helped a homeless mum with baby in tow, have you and volunteered at a foster home for abandoned kids. Stop being righteous, it’s embarrasing.
Ha ha ha, you go try and balance Mr LKY first and see the “balancing” he does on you.
My nick is referring to people like you. Are you sure you are a human being? Yes you are a ridiculous human being at best.
So why don’t you put them up at your place? Hypocrites?
//ridiculous
it is very easy to say that people who don’t support PAP wants everything to be free.
Very convenient indeed.
However, there is range in the way things are done.
Very often it is not binary.
All the more so in this instance, our govt is overpaid and not producing much.
The list of their incompetency grows by the day.
I think we are going to see a reply of the 2006-2007 economic scenario.
Where we have high inflation led growth.
i.e. high growth but we also have high inflation.
I think it is deliberate.
Ridiculous: [“… but if you cannot afford, you can downgrade….”].
-
And what will happen a few years down the road after they have downgraded? Downgrade some more? To what? 2 rooms, 1 room? To being another Happy Camper all over again?
-
Ridiculous: [“…If you out of job, find a job. …”].
-
Sure, like you can just breeze into a job. If it is so easy looking for employment, there wouldn’t be the thousands still looking for jobs each day.
-
Ridiculous: [“…Then go to malaysia…”].
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Why should anyone run away from his own country? Is this what you are going to teach your children; that when they have trouble at home, they are to run away and live with their neighbours?
-
Ridiculous: [“…Police conduct patrols, you complain police state …”].
-
No one makes reference to police patrolling the neighbourhood with being a police state. ‘Police state’ refers to the role the police play when these roles are carried out under the command of ‘higher’ biddings, which usually serves to unfairly penalized those who are crying foul of something.
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Ridiculous: [“…You guys don’t want a nanny state but wants the govt to spoon feed you everything…”].
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Wrong! We have had enough of a nanny state and we do not want to government to spoon feed us. We want the government to stop telling us to move in this or that direction and penalizing those who do not conform.
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If only there are more choices in what we can decide for ourselves in terms of job choices, and; if these other job types are not being discriminated against, then I think more Singaporeans would have many other avenues to go after the gainful and meaningful employments they would rather prefer.
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Ridiculous: […”So give everyone free…”].
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This is a ridiculous and a nonsensical accusation. Since when did this government offered anything for free? The furthest they would go is to provide subsidy, and this, after ridiculous increases to the original cost of whatever they are subsidizing.
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Ridiculous: […”Finally, what have YOU done for the homeless?...’].
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Very crude statement. Why should anyone answer this question? But for your sake I will. Since when can the homeless demand help from his countrymen? Is it not the role of a government to look after them or anyone who are being left behind, economically and socially?
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Even if any of us are doing all we can to help these people, it does not mean that the government can then wash its hands off caring for them. This would be taking the people’s kindness as their weakness, which this government is guilty of. It has been treating its own citizens as fools.
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Ridiculous: [“…but refuse to do the dirty job yourself…”].
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Good that you realize there are dirty jobs to be taken care of.. Why then do you insist that the people be the ones responsible for taking them up? What means do they have besides their meager income and their already depleted spare hours of the day.
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Why are you behaving so cowardly by not having the dare to ask this government to start caring for the people who are living on the fringe? If only your b**ls are as big as your mouth… sigh!
You want to know how LHL justify his 8.8% bonus increase later for his staff:
1. the growth rate for this year might be more than 10%.
However, he forgot that the inflation would at least be 4%.
So effective growth rate is 6% at best.
Pigs try to massage macro economical data to have better things to say after years of cock up.
Thanks and bravo germami for helping to enlighten the “ridiculous” kid who chose the right pen name for himself. People like hims are the REAL ‘daft” that not even old fox hairy is referring to. Because was referring to you and I who know better than hairy and enough to lambaste hairy and his cronies.
Old fox can’t take it and DESPICABLY went so far as to BETRAY us natives to event a Foreign magazine call National Geographic to call us “DAFT”. An UNPRINCIPLED ‘boss’ bad mouthing his subordinates to outsiders because they have the withal to stand up to his failings??? ‘ridiculous’ you are the very kind old fox loves as you’re obedient with “blind” allegiance! Following quotes of old fox is specially for you of what hairy is really about:
“If you are a troublemaker… it’s our job to politically destroy you. Put it this way. As long as JB Jeyaratnam for what he stands for – a thoroughly destructive force – we will knock him. Everybody knows that in my bag I have a hatchet, and a very sharp one. You take me on, I take my hatchet, we meet in the cul-de-sac.” – Lee Kuan Yew, The Man And His Ideas, 1997
“I am often accused of interfering in the private lives of citizens. Yes, if I did not, had I not done that, we wouldn’t be here today. And I say without the slightest remorse, that we wouldn’t be here, we would not have made economic progress, if we had not intervened on very personal matters – who your neighbour is, how you live, the noise you make, how you spit, or what language you use. We decide what is right. Never mind what the people think.” – Lee Kuan Yew, Straits Times, 20 April 1987
“I make no apologies that the PAP is the Government and the Government is the PAP.” – Lee Kuan Yew, 1982, Petir
“If I were in authority in Singapore indefinitely without having to ask those who are governed whether they like what is being done, then I would not have the slightest doubt that I could govern much more effectively in their interests.” – Lee Kuan Yew, 1962
And now “ridiculous”….. I hope you know your old fox better and not revere him anymore. Rise up and fight for your rights. And don’t potato couch to negatively portray others who know better and dare TO QUESTION authoritarians who have academics tacking along hm for big bucks if you know what I mean! Grow up and mature. Whatever your age! As……
VALOUR is the better part of bravery and DISCRETION is the better part of valour! WHY? Because it is WISDOM to APPLY and ACT Appropriately and Fitting to preserve one’s DIGNITY! Never be a pawn or even a slave to authority, especially when authority is undignified.
@ridiculous
>> “You guys don’t want a nanny state but wants the govt to spoon feed you everything. So give everyone free housing, free meals, free utilities, everything free la, thats what you seem to be hinting.”
On the one hand, pap wants to control our retirement income (cpf).. on the other hand, we are to take care of our own problems.. Seems like pap only wants to control (help) something when it sees advantages in doing so, but loves to leave it to singaporeans when it didn’t see any advantages..
BTW, the free stuff like housing, meals won’t be “free” since we are paying gst, income taxes, etc…
@Gemami
Thanks for rebutting ‘Ridiculous’ comments. I applaud your passion and conviction. It’s disheartening to say this, but he or she is one of countless who refuse to accept the truth and live in this bubble created by the ruling party. Not able to see above the wall and refusing to look at the mirror to what they have become. They see what they want to see and hear what they want to hear. It’s disappointing and frustrating at the same time to know the state we are in.
They can fool some people all of the time and all the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time.
@lim
“BTW, the free stuff like housing, meals won’t be “free” since we are paying gst, income taxes, etc…”
Agree with you there. In fact, I think that’s the same point that ridiculous is trying to make. That nothing is free.
It is easy for the Opposition to demand free this and free that. But that’s because they don’t need to deliver these things.
But one day, the Opposition WILL win. Will they live up to their promises? Remember that while the PAP is chalking up mistakes (according to someone above), the Opposition is also chalking up PROMISES.
@XiiAoGeNgEnX
I liken the gst, income taxes paid to the govt to the insurance premiums that we pay to insurance companies… If nothing happens, we just keep paying the insurance premiums, but if one day, some unfortunate event should befell us, that’s when we collect the insurance payout..
So, I don’t mind higher taxes, as long as the safety net is in place, because nobody can say that nothing unfortunate can happen to him or his family…
I liken the gst, income taxes paid to the govt to the insurance premiums that we pay to insurance companies…
>> Are you going to celebrate when PAP increase the GST to 10% after election? May I be invited cos I will be poorer and I am looking for a free meal to offset my cost of living.
@Dumb and dumber
Nope, I won’t celebrate when pap raise gst, and I am pretty sure they will do that, and like you, I will be very pissed off..
I won’t celebrate because knowing pap, social safety net is something they will not implement, so higher gst will just means more $ going to govt , without corresponding increase in social benefits (as if we have one in the first place)..
Which is why I am voting opposition, same as in ge2006 because I want a change to a more caring govt…
@lim
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VAT
And what makes you think the Opposition, that intends to model after the West, won’t increase GST?
SG — 7%
Germany — 19%
France — 19.6%
UK — 17.5%
Australia — 10%
New Zealand — 12.5%
@XiiAoGeNgEnX
gst is just one part of the equation, we need to look at minimum wage, free education, free health care etc.. so that people generally don’t mind a higher tax..
Like I said, it is like an insurance policy.. Why else do we need an armed forces, which year in year out just consume tons of $ but is not productive.. Because in case some despot decided to invade us, that is where the armed forces (our insurance) comes in…
//XiiAoGeNgEnX
//And what makes you think the Opposition, that intends to model after the West, won’t increase GST?
Just take a look at the way the 2 opposition handles their wards.
The people there pays the lowest council fee in the whole country.
And only increase it once or twice with the overall level still lower that the pap wards.
Therefore if PAP doesn’t increase GST, the opposition won’t need to as well.
The best solution is:
vote in enough opposition to stop the pigs from changing their rules as and when they want.
But not enough at the moment to take over them.
I tell you, to keeo their million dollar salaries, none of the ministers will fool around.
The opposition will look best opposing any increase in GST.
@XiiAoGeNgEnX 29 April 2010
The GST rate itself does not give the real picture. All the countries you have listed provide better social welfare to their citizens than Singapore. Also there the other ‘taxes’ like ERP, COE etc.
Just wondering if “Ridiculous” is a rebirth of “My Views”. One pops up about same time the other goes under the radar … both same ammo type. Hmmm…
Anyway, I am still not convince ppl like Mr MCYS has earn their highest minister salary in world, regardless streets of S’pore is relatively safe. (Like the streets of S’pore were extremely safe under the Japanese occupation…. so we should appreciate the Kempeitai??)
What about the elderly collecting scrap from dustbins? Maybe TOC can do an article on them and see if MCYS can make them disappear — no lah, no such ppl in everyone-guarantee-a-meal-Singapore, they only a fabrication of our imagination or they helping in recycling materials, good for sustainable environment lah.
After seeing all those homeless people lining the streets, and the ghettos where (literally) towns of poor people congregate, I really don’t believe that they have better social welfare than us.
In the West, the ghettos are so established to the extent that their banks will deny credit to those living in the ghettos. It’s called “redlining”.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining
@XiiAoGeNgEnX
In the US, there are a lot of illegal immigrants, and these people aren’t allocated social benefits, of course, I am not sure whether such ghettos consist of majority illegal immigrants or us citizens..
I have watched the british show “super nanny”, and in some of the episodes, the mothers aren’t working (can’t remember whether the boyfriends are working or not), but are raising 3-4 kids, staying in a nice house..
I am not saying we should approach the west in the same manner of social welfare, but free education and free medical (at least for those major illness, surgeries, dialysis, etc) should be a citizen’s right.. We should not be afraid of abuse, for how can a person abuse free education? How can a person abuse the free medical treatment for major illness? Nobody in their right mind would deliberately get himself/herself cancer stricken, kidney failure just so as to enjoy (abuse) the free treatment.. knowing that with these diseases comes mental, physical pain and inconveniences…
This just in from last night.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/election_2010/8649853.stm
I quote the woman’s main grouse against the left-leaning socialist Labour incumbent. “It’s going to be tax, tax, tax for another 20 years to get out of this national debt, and he’s calling me a bigot.”
No kiddin man. You really think they are happy with their own social welfare system?
Well, look at it this way, if nothing happens to the woman (say, cancer or something which costs a bomb), then she will probably be unhappy with the taxes, but if you asked another who is suffering from cancer, and not having to worry about the medical bills, she will probably say she is lucky to live in a country with free medical…