I attended the People’s Association Youth Movement (PAYM) policy forum @ Jurong GRC on Sunday (11 April). The discussion, entitled “HDB Flats: Towering Pinnacles, sky-high prices?”, was attended by about 50 people.
The three speakers were Ms Grace Fu, Minister of State for National Development, Ms Tan Chew Ling, acting director of HDB’s estate administration and property department, and Mr Tommy Tan, Managing Partner of JATT Realty.
The questions and answers session was probably the more interesting part of the forum, so I shall skip right to it.
Cost-plus versus Market subsidy
The first question was from SMU student Nathaniel Koh, who asked why the HDB was using market subsidy pricing, instead of cost-plus-profit pricing. He also questioned whether the presentation on the affordability of HDB flats using the median income of flat applicants was appropriate?
The HDB currently operates a market subsidy pricing model, which means it prices its flats at the market rate but sells them at a discount. The cost-plus-profit model would mean flat prices are generally pegged to construction costs.
The response from Ms Fu was that a cost-plus-profit model would not be fair as construction costs tend to fluctuate from project to project.
In my view, this argument may not be valid. Whether the HDB adopts a cost-plus-profit or market subsidy pricing model, the primary issue is one of policy.
The finer details of implementation can be ironed out. For example, some price smoothing or stabilisation mechanism like moving averages, may be used instead of a project-to-project cost pricing model.
Moreover, whilst some may pay higher or lower prices due to the fluctuation of construction costs, at least, arguably, everyone may pay lower prices under a cost-plus-profit model.
This brings us to another question. Why has the HDB consistently refused to provide the cost break-down for flat construction, despite almost yearly questions in Parliament and newspaper forums?
Affordability based on flat applicant’s median income
The response from HDB’s Ms Tan to Koh’s second question was that since the median income of 2-room flat applicants was $1,350, and those who earn not more than $1,500 also have the option of a rental HDB flat, it is therefore affordable even for the lower-income.
I don’t think the response answered the question, as using applicant income does not account for those who could not afford to apply in the first place.
Nobody wants smaller BTO flats, but resale prices increase the most?
The question was asked as to why we have the phenomena of smaller 2- and 3-room build-to-order (BTO) flats attracting the least applications, whilst prices of smaller resale flats and cash-over-valuation (COV) sales are increasing rapidly. The person fielding the query also asked how this can be resolved.
The response from the speakers was along the lines that the HDB can control neither the market nor the number of applicants.
In my view, the problem may be that the HDB had stopped building 2- and 3-room flats for some time, and only resumed building 2- and 3-room flats in 2006 and 2004 respectively.
To resolve this problem, HDB policies that make it difficult for downgraders to downgrade directly to new smaller flats could be reviewed. We also need to account for the fact that it takes about eight years (three years to build and five years Minimum Occupation Period (MOP)) for such flats to be available for the resale market.
Otherwise, the fact that 3-room prices rose the most among all flat types in 2007/2008 may continue and at an even higher rate. For some background, the average price of a 3-room flat rose from $185,000 in the third quarter of 2007 to $232,000 in the third quarter of 2008 – a 25 per cent increase. The average price hit $260,600 in the fourth quarter of 2009, with the cheapest at $225,500 plus COV of at least $20,000.
What if buyers cannot sustain a 30-year mortgage?
Another question asked was how young couples could be helped if they cannot pay for their mortgage in the future.
The response from HDB’s Ms Tan was that the HDB grants concessionary loans on the basis that the repayment cannot exceed 40 per cent of income, and Ms Grace Fu also said that most of those who ran into difficulties paying their mortgage were not first-timers, but those who had cashed-out of their previous HDB flats.
I would like to ask for the statistics as to how many, for example, of the 30,770 HDB flat buyers in arrears for over three months as of September last year, fell into this category of “cashed-out on their previous flat”.
Another question from an attendee: Is it true that rising HDB prices will generate wealth for Singaporeans?
The audience was asked to vote Yes or No by a show of hands. After much prodding some eventually raised their hands.
The response from HDB’s Ms Tan was that your HDB flat is like a cash cow that can be milked in retirement, but don’t slaughter the sacred cow too early.
Ms Grace Fu also raised the question of whether capital appreciation is not important to Singaporeans, or is it a better alternative for prices to appreciate so that they have the option to downgrade to monetise for retirement. She added that if we use a cost-plus-profit model, whereby the flat is treated as a home and not a growing asset, then, when buyers sell back to the HDB, it will also be at cost-plus-profit prices.
I did not quite understand the logic of the above, as we are only talking about cost-plus-profit prices when you buy, not when you sell or have to return it to the HDB.
No Executive Condo launch in last five years?
A member of the audience who earned a monthly salary between $8,000 and $10,000 asked why there have been no Executive Condo launches in the last five years.
The answer was that sites were on the reserve list, but there were no takers from private developers.
So, there must be something wrong with the price and terms that the HDB was giving to developers. Instead of just saying that there were no takers, perhaps the HDB could review its terms?
Part 2 of this article will talk about the presentations at the forum, which mainly focused on HDB statistics and affordability, whether there is sufficient supply, and whether permanent residents are driving up prices.
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By Leong Sze Hian
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My Views
If HDB flats are exorbitantly priced, why are there so many people applying for those flats? What are you talking about?
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you meant we can simply built 1 attap hut in sembawang park?
wow!!!
smallfly 15 April 2010
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I will go straight to your point.
Look, you don’t pay a Minister of State just to explain a basic financial textbook concept such as why the need to price the HDB flats based on market valuation approach. Grace Fu’s role is highly important and covers a large scope of responsibilities. Hence, a competitive salary to commensurate her role, experience and qualifications. For your information, Grace Fu was the Chief Financial Officer for PSA International – you know PSA? One of the largest port operators in the world. You want good people, you pay more.
gemami 15 April 2010
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Let me tell you the tricky business of pricing one’s product. You priced it too high, demand falls and stock surplus occurred. You priced it too low, you have immediate stock-out and lose potential revenue. If a buyer is willing to pay $400,000 for a 4-room flat and Mah Bow Tan priced it at $250,000, the country will end up losing potential revenue of $150,000; multiply that figure with the number of units sold, you can imagine the huge amount of loss in revenue – in which case, you don’t have to vote him out, his boss would have kicked him out! However, since Mah Bow Tan has been voted in over the past many general elections, you know he has been doing his job well.
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
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Why wait for moderation? Shut down this website and you will no longer hear explanation which you don’t like to hear!
//My views
//Why wait for moderation? Shut down this website and you will no longer hear explanation which you don’t like to hear!
Moderation is to insure against litigation from the pigs.
There is a long history of bankrupting people from the pigs for saying simple truths.
If it weren’t because of the pigs, this site would even bother to moderate your comments which serve to demonstrate the extremism of the pigs’ thinking.
//full of nonsense
It is easier to scold people / customers for not buying your goods than to think and produce something that everybody wants or to use monopoly to force people to take what you produce.
That’s exactly what MBT is good about.
My Views 16 April 2010
smallfly 15 April 2010
Grace Fu was the Chief Financial Officer for PSA International – you know PSA?
………………………………………
yeap we all know PSA..
who lost their main core of business to rival bolehed malaysia @ port klang…
and we also lost our bid to run the british container port against the arabs…
so how come grace FOOL is still aroun?
why is she related to leekuanyew as well?
//my views
//You want good people, you pay more.
however, you may be paying more but you still don’t get good people.
Grace Foo is an example among many.
She doesn’t perform. Even you can correct her and you presumably don’t work for the HDB.
If she is sent to Potang Pasir, she will be voted out.
//My Views
//If a buyer is willing to pay $400,000 for a 4-room //flat and Mah Bow Tan priced it at $250,000, the //country will end up losing potential revenue of //$150,000;
So that is reason why the govt is driving HDB prices skyhigh by letting millions of immigrants into singapore in 2 years. (and also over the last decade):
to make money.
… I shouldn’t be surprised: this is an open secret.
//my views
////If a buyer is willing to pay $400,000 for a 4-room //flat and Mah Bow Tan priced it at $250,000, the //country will end up losing potential revenue of //$150,000;
through hdb, the govt has improvished s’poreans each with 150K.
no wonder s’poreans don’t have enough for retirement.
what did the govt do with the extra 150K?
pay themselves first and then the arabs who bought barclays shares from ho ching.
//my views
////If a buyer is willing to pay $400,000 for a 4-room //flat and Mah Bow Tan priced it at $250,000, the //country will end up losing potential revenue of //$150,000;
the govt has created this willingness, by forcing people to buy else they will have to wait for a long time for a new flat.
It has no regards as to whether the couple in question has to postpone family plans and settle down quickly.
//my views
//Look, you don’t pay a Minister of State just to explain //a basic financial textbook concept
She told us not even to expect what development HDB should be doing over the next 6 month for a supposedly forward looking party.
No. we don’t expect her to explain well.
//such as why the //need to price the HDB flats //based on market valuation approach.
HDB pricing method is NOT market valuation approach.
It is just NOT COST BASED APPROACH.
No private developer will go around scolding people for not buying its flats .
If people don’t want to buy, the developer will just have to lower its price.
HDB doesn’t do anything market oriented.
If it does, it won’t be experience high rejection rates for its new flats.
//my views
//Grace Fu was the Chief Financial Officer for PSA International
Her performance in the ministry and HDB doesn’t demonstrate any competency.
For a developer to tell people it doesn’t know what it would do over and above 6 months is a clear demonstration of incompetency.
How she got that position? I don’t know.
//my views
//However, since Mah Bow Tan has been voted in over the past many general elections, you know he has been doing his job well.
So confident? Start the elections now.
We will see.
Same thing with LHL.
//my views
don away carry the ball everywhere as my one is bigger who ar u ar this site belong 2 u let see this kateh and char bor if they lose their seat STI will rise like a rocket i the one will celebrate first that 4 sure.
@fpc
no private developer will scold the pple for not buying its units, but noone had scold the private developer for selling too high
@ all
if we do cost plus pricing, a unit at cantonment is the same as a unit at sengkang, is that fair? And once u resale, the price difference is madness, is that fair?
myviewsarestillbetter 19 April 2010
we also lost our bid to run the british container port against the arabs…
so how come grace FOOL is still aroun?
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And the Arabs are now not doing well with their expensive investments in that British port. You see, when PSA made its offer, the price was backup by hard and cold calculations with no room for emotions and prides. This is how Singapore’s GLCs operate.
@MY views
I agree, will the moderator please say something about this phenomenon? We do not defend the govt policies blindly but some are just common sense and are blindly bashed instead and the moderators delete the comments.
isnt free speech what the website is fighting for?
//my Views
your views are always published here and criticised of course. You can counter but you are always defeated because your ideas are wrong.
tell the pigs to publish our views and explain.
They won’t because they ended up looking stupid with their explanations.
My Views
And the Arabs are now not doing well with their expensive investments in that British port. no room for emotions and prides. This is how Singapore’s GLCs operate.
………………………………….
i asked you when we lost to port klang @ the british container port
how come grace FOOL is still bein in employment..
you answered the arabs are not doin well?
is the british port closed? than again you are OUR number 1 court jester here..or else i would had send the arab camel leader to count your head if you still have 1 leftover…
indeed no room for emotions and prides…
wow! graceFOOL must be related to leekuanyew..
was not leekuanyew a proud and arrogant man who tolerate NO mistakes…so where is leekuanyew pride?
//peppy
//if we do cost plus pricing, a unit at cantonment is the same as a unit at sengkang, is that fair? And once u resale, the price difference is madness, is that fair?
Why would you think a unit in SengKang would cost the same as a unit at cantonment?
How big will the price difference be?
Are there ways to control these difference?
Would it be simple to implement?
Is the flat in SengKang the only flat you would only have?
Is the current price difference between SengKang fltat and a unit at cantonment justifable?
Now, Prices are sky high because hdb is incentivised to drive prices sky high to make a profit (huge profit) with their cov method.
Sky high prices do no justice to those people who are buying. They are only advantageous to those who buy early who would also benefit from the cost plus system but with less profit.
// My Views
//And the Arabs are now not doing well with their expensive investments in that British port.
Yeah, those expensive equipments were bought with SOME of the excess profit that the Arabs made from the sale of barclays shares bought over from HC of TH.
//the price was backup by hard and cold calculations with no room for emotions and prides. This is how Singapore’s GLCs operate.
Yeah, HC and LKY were certainly cold and emotionless when they lost those monies invested in foreign banks that the Arabs managed to capture to fund some of those expensive equipements that they are supposedly losing in the ports.
My bets are those monies they captured would allow them to lose monies for another 20 years…
They are very thankful for LKY and HC for helping them fund their learning in the shipping and cargo business.
See LKY didn’t just give scholarships to FT. HE also give scholarships to Arabs in business.
//my views
//no private developer will scold the pple for not buying its units,
Thank you for acknowledging that hdb is not market oriented despite its claims.
//but noone had scold the private developer for selling too high
You got to be kidding with this one.
Go sit around any store in the market, when prices are too high, there are typically three reactions:
1. scold the owner for selling so high
2. walk away grumbling
3. negotiate for a lower price.
At least 2/3 of the reactions involves negative sentiments aka scolding.
I do hear of people scolding developers for selling too high and they usually also choose not to buy.
//peggy
//We do not defend the govt policies blindly but some //are just common sense and are blindly bashed //instead and the moderators delete the comments.
//isnt free speech what the website is fighting for?
if you don’t like, post your comments elsewhere to be heard.
I assure you most of the comments wouldn’t even get across to govt controlled site.
One does not need to have solid points for the post to be viewed here.
if your posts are deleted, it shows that there is Negative substances in it that even the tolerant moderator here cannot believe it is worth to be put up.
Go upgrade yourself.
//peggy
//We do not defend the govt policies blindly but some //are just common sense and are blindly bashed //instead and the moderators delete the comments.
//isnt free speech what the website is fighting for?
if your posts are deleted, it shows that there is Negative substances in it that even the tolerant moderator here cannot believe it is worth to be put up.
Go upgrade yourself.
@fpc
is it? similarly i can ask the moderators to upgrade themselves
How come u never mention my statement, that noone will also blame the pte developer if they cannot get their unit?
Why must walkaway grumbling? Isnt u the guy that should upgrade urself?
1. Negotiate for a better deal
2. Walkaway to find a better deal, and am glad u never give in to pressure tactics
pinnacle is only 500-600k, whereas the condos beside, much smaller, going for 900k-1.3mil.
Yes, the price difference is justified. So you buy today, won’t you be a seller tomorrow? Who ask you don’t buy early? Why noone criticize those fellow singaporeans for being greedy and selling so high, why cant they sell at the price they bought?
Is it? How come the govt got earn from COV? since there is no capital gain tax.
//peppy
//How come u never mention my statement, that noone will also blame the pte developer if they cannot get their unit?
I didn’t see this statement until now and I don’t know how is this relevant.
I think most people complain about private developers if they cannot get their unit especially when they put a deposit for it already and is paying in every month like most of us who works and pay into the CPF ordinary account.
//peppy
//is it? similarly i can ask the moderators to upgrade themselves
With the moderator’s current tolerant standards, and if you cannot make it on this post through their scrutiny, I don’t see how you can make it when the moderator raise his/her standards…
There are so many different posts here from so many different people, from all walks of life.
You should be the one asking yourself how come you cannot get to post here.
//peppy
//Why must walkaway grumbling?
This is an understatement already. Some people shout and scream; some people walk away quietly; some people grumble and walk away; there are thousands and one way of leaving the scene.
I didn’t know I need to list the various intensity.
You must have not shop in a wet market…
You are missing something here.
//Isnt u the guy that should upgrade urself?
Why should I upgrade myself?
all I did was to comment or list down the typical reactions of people.
even if I upgrade myself, people’s reaction don’t change.
Emperor Qin didn’t succeed in controlling people’s reactions and sentiment in a permanent manner; the nazi couldn’t do that as well. And they have weapons.
I certainly don’t overestimate myself into thinking I could change people reaction in a permanent manner.
I wonder why you think you can.
//peppy
//pinnacle is only 500-600k, whereas the condos beside, much smaller, going for 900k-1.3mil.
Why should I compare these 2 types of units?
Why can’t I compare it with a prime appartment in Boston or NY or London?
With that kind of monies, I kind buy a freehold unit in London.
I don’t understand your fascination with these local appartments.
//peppy
//Yes, the price difference is justified.
I don’t agree. I think it is madness. I don’t know why you think so. if you are the salesperson, I ‘d understand but if you are not. I think you are making a mistake impoverishing s’poreans.
//So you buy today, won’t you be a seller tomorrow?
I don’t see the relevance of this in the discussion.
I only one thing for sure: if I settle in s’pore for good, I will need an appartment. The cheaper the better so that I have more retirement monies to spend.
//Who ask you don’t buy early?
How do you know I didn’t buy early?
//Why noone criticize those fellow singaporeans for being greedy and selling so high, why cant they sell at the price they bought?
You should ask the agents and HDB.
If they sell lower, HDB might intervene and file a police report or something.
I don’t know what you are really driving at… in case this helps: they are many people who sold at a loss last decade. in principle, they didn’t make monies out of the sale of a flat.
//Is it? How come the govt got earn from COV? since there is no capital gain tax.
GOVT makes monies from the land they sell next to mature housing estate whose value depends on the prices of nearby flat prices.
These flat prices were driven up by high COV. If COV is zero, and resale prices stay the same, you won’t see govt selling nearby land to raise revenue.
Thank you for letting me explain this trick that the govt uses.
Is it? I don’t see anyone blaming pte developers for not getting the choice units leh? Oh yes fpc, any slight hint of supporting the govt (even if its common sense) gets deleted here, common knowledge. Yes, thats y u must upgrade urself, u treat buying a house like buying vegetables.
Then I wonder you can make me “upgrade” myself either, oppositional double standards indeed. - free speech but only pro-opposition anti-govt speech is free :)
LOL, you compare Singapore with london, why not new york or hk? Instead of comparing a unit right beside, you compare to a unit thousands of miles away. Very smart. Which is likely to be more correlated – Blk 1 Ave 1, SG vs. Blk 2 Ave 1, SG or Blk 1 Ave 1 SG vs. Blk 1 Ave 1 London. The landspace geographics and demographics is different, hell even the currency exchange is different. Oh and thanks, thanks for indirectly saying that SG govt has done a good job in making our currency strong.
Why impoverish? Most of us own a house already, isnt it suppose to make us rich. And really? impoverish? Now is high, thats why, why noone complain a year back? OR how about 97? In fact most people didnt dare to buy then, sorry but its judgement call, you can always DONT BUY. And you can buy direct, no COV! Buy from SK, no COV also, JW also can. :) Can retire alot, somemore v peaceful lots of open field and sea view. Mortgage is still servicable and realistic.
Your ignorance make me laugh!!!!! Selling lower HDB might intervene and file a police report or something???? Get your darn facts right! OMG! You just broadcast to the world how little you know of the property market anyway.
Really? How much space are there left in. From what I know selling to pte developers is through bidding and has nothing to do with COV. So you are saying the govt SHOULDNT release land for sale? So lets keep the price up and up. Thank you for contradicting yourself.
//peppy
//any slight hint of supporting the govt (even if its common sense) gets deleted here,
you can do a count, which I did. The deletion is not systematic.
So, it is your level that is problematic.
//u treat buying a house like buying vegetables.
No, I don’t. that’s why I demand standards.
And the difference between the 2 is not just the prices.
There are many more sellers of vege than providers of housing.
//peppy
//Then I wonder you can make me “upgrade” myself either, oppositional double standards indeed. - free speech but only pro-opposition anti-govt speech is free :)
I know your standard. That’s why I advise you to upgrade if you have difficulty having your posts being cleared here.
Whether your post is seen here doesn’t affect me a bit.
I have no intentions of <making> you whatever.
self righteous bums are common in s’pore.
//peppy
//LOL, you compare Singapore with london, why not new york or hk? Instead of comparing a unit right beside, you compare to a unit thousands of miles away. Very smart.
I did list HK, NY in my earlier post. Thank you for acknowledging that it is good to compare our prices with international cities prices.
//he landspace geographics and demographics is different, hell even the currency exchange is different.
I know that and I think property prices in S’pore is exaggerated taking into account of the above factors.
//Oh and thanks, thanks for indirectly saying that SG govt has done a good job in making our currency strong.
I posted many times that our currency is way too high and is making things difficult for us to attract investments.
Having a overvalued currency is the govt way of squeezing cost of construction lower.
Despite having an overvalued currency, things in S’pore are not lower than before (especially imported goods) .
So, the apparent overvalued currency is for people i.e govt, who has spare monies to buy things from overseas directly and not from singapore.
The gains from an overvalued currency is eroded by the artificially bloated prices in S’pore.
//peppy
//Why impoverish? Most of us own a house already, isnt it suppose to make us rich.
No. Most of us are still servicing a lease.
That change your conclusion.
And really? impoverish? Now is high, thats why, why noone complain a year back?
Everybody was complaining. Just that there was no media for those complains to be visible.
That’s how the pigs rule: by diffusing legitimate complaints so that they look good through the withdrawal of space for people to voice their complaints.
This is obviously not the only one way. Bankrupting opposition is another way.
//OR how about 97? In fact most people didnt dare to buy //then,
The number of new flats sold then is higher than in 2009.
I wonder why you think nobody dare to buy.
// sorry but its judgement call, you can always DONT //BUY. And you can buy direct, no COV!
No you can’t always don’t buy . No
you can’t always buy direct because HDB is constructing fewer new desirable housing estates.
//Buy from SK, no COV also, JW also can. :)
Don’t know what you are trying to say here.
//Can retire alot, somemore v peaceful lots of open field and //sea view. Mortgage is still servicable and realistic.
Still servicable is a controversial term. There are tens of thousands of people who think that the current prices are not affordable.
//Your ignorance make me laugh!!!!!
I am glad that I made you laugh however Your self righteousness is revolting.
//Selling lower HDB might intervene and file a police report //or something???? Get your darn facts right! OMG! You just //broadcast to the world how little you know of the property //market anyway.
I am just quoting what agents have been telling me.
If you can clarify that. I am sure the moderators will allow you to post here.
//Really? How much space are there left in. From what I //know selling to pte developers is through bidding and has //nothing to do with COV.
//So you are saying the govt SHOULDNT release land for //sale?
I didn’t say the above. What I said was the govt has a lot of self interest to drive prices higher and its policies changes in 2006 have made that happen.
In addition, the COV is a tool that the govt exploit to ensure that the nearby land of mature housing estate can be sold at an exorbitant rate by sheer manipulation of prices.
The prices of resale flats driven by COV provide a floor to the bidding numbers of the developers.
The higher the floor, the higher the bid. The higher the govt’s revenue from the sale.
These developers then have to sell the housing units at an additional high price back to the public.
The example from the Seng Siong Saga is a clear demonstration of the tricks that the govt use in the manipulation of property prices. Sell high to Seng Siong and SS has to collect the monies back through rental hikes of 30%.
I don’t expect you to understand.
I just hope other people understand.
//So lets keep the price up and up.
The govt is doing that through its policies changes in 2006.
So that they could sell land at an exorbitant rate.
//Thank you for contradicting yourself.
I would be happy if you can point out or clarify the contradictions.
But I really didn’t see it from your text.
//u treat buying a house like buying vegetables.
No, I don’t. that’s why I demand standards.
And the difference between the 2 is not just the prices.
There are many more sellers of vege than providers of housing
There are also private developers, go for them? Yes you are treating like buying vegetables, you want it cheap and good, you want standard and yet NOT WILLING to pay the cost
//Oh and thanks, thanks for indirectly saying that SG govt has done a good job in making our currency strong.
I posted many times that our currency is way too high and is making things difficult for us to attract investments.
Having a overvalued currency is the govt way of squeezing cost of construction lower.
Despite having an overvalued currency, things in S’pore are not lower than before (especially imported goods) .
Oh is it? Then by having a undervalued currency, wouldnt it let the PRs have hell of a better time buying up your HDB? And won’t it make ur imports more expensive, so you want your vegetable prices to go up, then u cant get cheap and good liao. So overvalued also not happy, undervalued also not happy, then how? Use hell currency
Why cant u don’t buy if the price is not right? U can walk away from a deal, unless you
Then you should get better agents
So what do u think the govt should do then? They release land, u say they profit, they don’t release, u also buey song.
I think u should be thankful that the HDB has been maintaining low prices, real market price is private property prices, smaller and more expensive. Private property prices are a clear demonstration.
And similarly for SS’s case, whats with all the grumbling? If you cant afford it, not enough people buy ur meat and veges, then u close down, move else where, or improve ur sales and profits. If the fee is hiked too much, stall holders will go else where, then all empty, then SS will make even greater lost. I’m sure you dont even understand the basics of supply and demand. Similarly, if u think HDB prices too high, DONT BUY! THen HDB make big big lost, then they lower price.
and the comment system here is not quote friendly, i will reply on the rest some other time if u can answer those above.
//Private property prices are a clear demonstration.
Of course, after selling them the land at such a high price, how else are they going to make monies except by selling high.
As to whether there are lots of local people buying, I cannot say for sure.
//u treat buying a house like buying vegetables.
No, I don’t. that’s why I demand standards.
And the difference between the 2 is not just the prices.
There are many more sellers of vege than providers of housing
There are also private developers, go for them? Yes you are treating like buying vegetables, you want it cheap and good, you want standard and yet NOT WILLING to pay the cost
How come you never reply this?
my comments seem to go missing all the time, it was posted just now, moderation in process again? a gag order?
Anyway cant be bothered, if you can see my other post, i mention your what you post have no content and no substance. nuff said. You clearly demonstrated the lack of ability to understand supply and demand
http://www.investopedia.com/university/economics/economics3.asp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand
Hope these few sites will help you
FPC,
I totally disagree that our currency is overvalued. Being one of the world’s biggest net exporters versus imports in terms of value and attracting one of the most FDI in Asia, our currency is way undervalued compared to Japan, Australia, Europe etc. Its already low to allow investments to come in. In fact, its so low it is causing inflation (same theory as China, low yuan, high inflation) that MAS has decided to let the currency appreciate via market forces and reducing stimulus
No im not in knack of posting ten one-liner statements in different statements that totally floods the site.
So you say high, he say low, whose right? If not because of our strong currency, we might see even higher commodity prices, ever thought of that?
Aniway, noone owes you a living, nor a place to live in, you want, earn it.
I can see that you are not much of an investor, nor someone that understand economics. And for someone who resort to personal attacks, I can see why someone like you cant find your love one, much less get married. No wonder you are so sour
fpc,
Please refrain from posting separate comments in reply to each line or sentence by other commenters. It takes up unnecessary bandwidth and floods the site.
We will remove comments posted in such a manner.
fpc…
\\I disagree. The value is propped up.
Evidence: we are not seeing the benefits of a strong currency in the things we buy in Singapore.
erm….didn’t u just reinforce my statement that the sgd is undervalued?
\\Fact is if our currency is strong, we, local should be benfitting from low inflation not the other way wrong since it cost few local dollars to buy an externally produced good.
Go check out the local Govt linked supermarkets: you will see few foreign brands.
Singapore consumerism market is way too small to impact the currency compared to, for example, new oil refineries, pharma plants which cost hell lots of money. This together with huge exports compared to less imports which means ppl outside sg needs SGD. This means by supply and demand, our currency should be much higher valued then it is now. However, if u increase supply of money, the impact of demand increase of money will be small, which is wat SG is doing.
\\The high inflation in China is a deliberate act by the Chinese Govt to offset the effect of increasing its currency exchange rate earlier. In essence, it wanted to keep its currency rate at the even earlier lower level.
Once increased, prices should fall and incentivise people to buy.
Erm…..no country will want to induce inflation. That’s causing unneccesary hardship on its people. A low currency value is both to stimulate exports and FDI but while releasing more cash into the market via the central bank, the value of money drop, casuing inflation, making ones domestic gorceries more expensive to buy.
\\ If MAS increase the currency exchange rate, we will still see high inflation in prices and services everywhere.
Guess u never read news. Its is because of fears of high inflation that we increase our currency rates. LOL
/peppy
//No im not in knack of posting ten one-liner //statements in different statements that totally //floods the site.
Excuses for not writing properly. Excuses again.
//So you say high, he say low, whose right? If not //because of our strong currency, we might see even //higher commodity prices, ever thought of that?
NO, I don’t think commodity prices are not higher because of our <strong> currencies.
Only the constructors/developers benefited from this <strong> currency. Likewise the govt.
And also to people who travel overseas.
Other than that, the effect of the <strong> currency is not felt by the locals. All prices are high nowadays.
//Aniway, noone owes you a living, nor a place to //live in, you want, earn it.
Tell that to the pigs. They think everyone owes them an extravagant living in Singapore, that they have to charge us high salaries and negative performances.
//I can see that you are not much of an investor, nor //someone that understand economics.
Better than HC. I make 10% per annum cumulatively.
To have enough time to rebut you.
//And for someone who resort to personal attacks,
You are the one who go around here attacking people and branding/passing remarks unwarranted and unsubstanciated comments about people as if you are all knowing.
//I can see why someone like you cant find your love //one, much less get married.
For the record, I am married.
//No wonder you are so sour
I have a sense of social justice.
You are the sour one for putting people down without valid reasons.
TOC:
my apologies
//lol
//Singapore consumerism market is way too small to impact the currency compared to,
Take a look at how much people spend overseas to get a idea of the potential monies for local retail market.
We are not spending locally because it is too expensive.
//for example, new oil refineries, pharma plants //which cost hell lots of money.
Yeah the strong currency helps them to buy materials cheaper and labor cheaper because we evidently don’t have the input materials.
(to the detriment of consumers locally)
//This together with huge exports compared to less //imports which means ppl outside sg needs SGD.
Who are the buyers?
The US market is tired. Where did you get your buyers?
//However, if u increase supply of money, the //impact of demand increase of money will be small, ..which is wat SG is doing.
I don’t know what you are saying here.
//Erm…..no country will want to induce inflation. //That’s causing unneccesary hardship on its people.
The Chinese premier just declared that housing prices are too high and he didn’t want people to be mortgage slave.
Seriously, you didn’t think he didn’t know that before he let housing prices went sky high?
It is not cast in stone that govt must keep inflation low.
In fact, some economists claims that inflation must be kept high to keep the economy from getting into recession. Krugman made that comment for Japan.
// making ones domestic gorceries more expensive to buy.
You can have cheaper gorceries but having multiple sources. More negotiating power.
//Guess u never read news. Its is because of fears //of high inflation that we increase our currency //rates. LOL
yeah, believe everything you read from the news.
MBT just tried to explain why his hdb flats are affordable.
Most of us here don’t think so.
For one, you need to pay 30% of your living savings for it over 30 years loans.
Same thing, the exchange rate of Singapore dollars is prop up like I described earlier.
//lol
//Singapore consumerism market is way too small to impact the currency compared to,
Take a look at how much people spend overseas to get a idea of the potential monies for local retail market.
We are not spending locally because it is too expensive.
//for example, new oil refineries, pharma plants //which cost hell lots of money.
Yeah the strong currency helps them to buy materials cheaper and labor cheaper because we evidently don’t have the input materials.
(to the detriment of consumers locally)
//This together with huge exports compared to less //imports which means ppl outside sg needs SGD.
Who are the buyers?
The US market is tired. Where did you get your buyers?
//However, if u increase supply of money, the //impact of demand increase of money will be small, ..which is wat SG is doing.
I don’t know what you are saying here.
//Erm…..no country will want to induce inflation. //That’s causing unneccesary hardship on its people.
The Chinese premier just declared that housing prices are too high and he didn’t want people to be mortgage slave.
Seriously, you didn’t think he didn’t know that before he let housing prices went sky high?
It is not cast in stone that govt must keep inflation low.
In fact, some economists claims that inflation must be kept high to keep the economy from getting into recession. Krugman made that comment for Japan.
// making ones domestic gorceries more expensive to buy.
You can have cheaper gorceries but having multiple sources. More negotiating power.
//Guess u never read news. Its is because of fears //of high inflation that we increase our currency //rates. LOL
yeah, believe everything you read from the news.
MBT just tried to explain why his hdb flats are affordable.
Most of us here don’t think so.
For one, you need to pay 30% of your living savings for it over 30 years loans.
Same thing, the exchange rate of Singapore dollars is prop up like I described earlier.
//peppy
////I can see why someone like you cant //find your love //one, much less get //married.
Questions:
1. Why is getting married much less than finding love?
I thought you do the latter first to achieve the latter.
2. What is the relationship between finding love, marriage, criticizing the govt for its failings and being single?
There are many singles MP in the pigs camp.
Are you rational?
//peppy
//You are mentioning the non-guaranteed portion of the insurance.
MAS made changes to the management of insurance firm to ensure that insurance companies can payout what they projected.
//What if another not-so-layman subprime crisis come along, now many non-guaranteed portions is wiped out.
insurance companies have in the past being forced to invest mostly in SGS bonds in Singapore.
I don’t know how your sub prime loans come in here.
//If ur insurance company collapse, u wun even get a cent back, like what almost happend to AIG.
Ask Tan KL about this. He claimed that policyholders in S’pore can get their monies back because of the way AIG singapore is managed.
He will reassure you.
——-
CPF life payments are not guaranteed.
Funny right, after contributing for 40 years… they cannot guaranteed to pay you.