This is Part One of The Online Citizen’s (TOC) response to recent remarks made in Parliament by the Minister for Community Development, Youth and Sports, Dr Vivian Balakrishnan, in relation to the issue of homelessness in Singapore.

The minister’s remarks were carried in a report by Channelnewsasia, on 27 April 2010.

First of all, some background on homelessness in Singapore:

Homelessness, potential homelessness, and the availability of public rental flats, are serious concerns. The Prime Minister, various ministers and Members of Parliament have raised these issues. The Minister for National Development spoke of it in on 5 March 2010 (Source). The Prime Minister and MCYS minister weighed in on these issues on 27 March 2010 (Source). People’s Action Party (PAP) Members of Parliament have also voiced their concerns in Parliament.  And during the March 2010 sitting of Parliament, opposition MP, Mr Low Thia Khiang, urged the government “to support the housing of homeless families” (Source).

On 6 February 2010, Minister for National Development, Mr Mah Bow Tan, made these remarks.

“Yes, there are more applicants than there are people giving up their rental flats. 300 new applicants join the rental queue every month, the number of people returning flats is less than half of that. Over and above that, there are over 500 appeals from MPs each month, from those who do not qualify for rental housing, who are not registered in the queue at the moment. I am sure all of you would know that this is probably the largest item on the agenda, as far as MPS is concerned .” (Source) [TOC note: “MPS” refers to “Meet-The-People Sessions” which MPs conduct in their constituencies.]

Mr Mah also said:

“Going forward, HDB will accelerate its rental flat building programme. So that, by 2012, we will increase the stock of HDB rental flats to 50,000 units, from the current 42,000 – an increase of 20%.”

What was the reason for the increase?  A Straits Times report in January 2010 provides us with a few clues.  Among other things, the report says:

“[the] number of homeless folk picked up by welfare officers driving around Singapore’s housing estates, beaches and streets has doubled in the past two years.”

It is also worth noting, according to a Straits Times report in February 2010, “HDB tightens rental rules”, that the “Housing Board has tightened criteria governing who is eligible for its heavily subsidised rental flats.”

Clearly homelessness and potential homelessness are growing problems in Singapore.  Yet, there is a dearth of statistics and information about the issue.  In a bid to fill the gap, the Online Citizen ran a one-week special focus on homelessness and wrote several stories about homeless people and homeless communities. We spent countless hours with our interviewees. We raised numerous questions through our stories – questions which focused attention on MCYS, NParks and HDB policies. We wanted our readers to better understand the plight of homeless Singaporeans. More importantly, we hoped that our stories would compel our government to rethink some of its rules and extend a helping hand to a segment of society that has fallen through the cracks.

There is little doubt that it is difficult getting a rental flat from the HDB. The waiting list is long (applicants have to wait up to 30 months to qualify) and applicants have to meet some extremely strict criteria.  The Minister for National Development has indicated that he plans to boost the availability of such flats by 20%, to 50,000 units.  But such a move needs to be accompanied by a revision in policy.  Genuinely homeless people should not be excluded from applying for rental flats simply because of “technical issues”.

It is simplistic for the MCYS minister to pick on one story reported by Al Jazeera, and use that to discredit everything else that’s been reported about homelessness in Singapore.

We will now examine the MCYS minister’s remarks in Parliament, as reported by Channelnewsasia.

About Al Jazeera:

Referring to Al Jazeera’s report on the homeless couple, the minister said it was “a clear example where a foreign media has failed to ascertain the facts.”

What were not disclosed in the Channelnewsasia report are the following, from what TOC understands:

  1. Al Jazeera approached MCYS for comments in March 2010.
  2. Specifically, Al Jazeera informed MCYS that it was seeking the ministry’s views on the issue of homelessness in Singapore.
  3. MCYS declined Al Jazeera’s request and instead referred it to earlier statements which it had issued.

Why did MCYS decline Al Jazeera’s request for an interview?  Is it fair of the minister to now accuse the station of failing “to ascertain the facts”?

[Al Jazeera has since responded to the minister's accusations. Please click here.)

We also note that Asia Calling, a programme on a Jakarta-based radio station, had approached the MCYS minister for comment for its report on the issue of homelessness in Singapore. According to Asia Calling’s eventual report, “Singapore homelessness”, it “requested an interview with the Minister of Community Development, Dr Vivian Balakrishnan, but his spokesperson said he was out of the country and unavailable for comment.”

“Some irresponsible websites”

According to Channelnewsasia, the MCYS minister said: “Some irresponsible websites have also caused these falsehoods to circulate widely on the internet.”

Our question to the minister is this:

Will the minister – and indeed, the government – give a public assurance and undertaking that all government ministries, departments and agencies will from now on provide information to members of the public and the media whenever it is requested?

MCYS cannot refuse to engage a media outlet, and then claim that that media outlet “failed to ascertain facts”.

TOC emailed NParks, MCYS minister

In January this year, some homeless people at Changi Beach Park told TOC they were harassed by NParks and MCYS officers.  On the 27th of January, we emailed the Chief Executive Officer of NParks, Mr Ng Lang and the Chairman of the Board, Mrs Christina Ong, about the matter and sought clarification on the rules regarding the use of public parks in Singapore.

TOC also copied the email to Dr Balakrishnan.

We have yet to receive a response from either Mr Ng, or Mrs Ong, or Dr Balakrishnan.

[Additional note: The Online Citizen had also emailed Ms Kee Lay Cheng, HDB’s Deputy Director at its Properties and Land Department, to ask about Block 29 at Havelock Road on 24 January. We received an automated reply which promised to forward our email “to the respective department to attend to it and reply direct to you.”]

We have yet to hear from Ms Kee.

How does the minister expect TOC, or any media organization or websites, to “ascertain facts” when attempts to engage the relevant authorities are met with silence?  The government has rarely, if ever, given us “their side of the story”.

Government ministries cannot decline requests for interviews or information, and then turn around and accuse the media of “not ascertaining the facts” and disparage websites for being “irresponsible”.

What is the point of listing the contact details of government ministers and officers on this government website if answers to queries are not forthcoming?

“[Setting] the record straight”

According to Channelnewsasia, the MCYS minister said:

Now that the facts are out, let us see whether those who have been propagating these falsehoods have the courage and the honesty to set the record straight.”

The minister was referring to the Al Jazeera report on the homeless couple.

Since January this year, TOC has spent many hours with the couple in question. We have approached various organisations, including MCYS, to try to help them find a home. We have done this in the belief that the government would be able to assist the couple.

We are thus shocked that the MCYS minister chose to castigate the couple in Parliament, without having ever spoken to them himself. What is also notable is that Channelnewsasia made no attempt whatsoever to contact the couple to seek their response to the minister’s statements. Perhaps CNA should have “ascertain[ed] the facts” before reporting on the case?

If they did, they would have realized that  “the man in the video” bought and sold his three flats over a period of 20 years.  The so-called “tidy profit” was derived by totaling up proceeds accumulated over two decades. “The man in the video” lost his third flat as a result of a divorce.  He is a single father struggling to support three children.  He is not sitting on a sudden windfall.

The woman in the video is technically co-owner of an HDB flat.  She is also a divorcee. Neither CNA nor the minister mentions this, but is it logical to expect a divorced couple to live under the same roof?

Since the minister’s statements in Parliament, TOC has met up with the couple. We showed them a copy of the CNA report.  We will have more on their story, as well as their response to the MCYS minister’s assertions, in a separate story tomorrow.

In October 2009, the Straits Times published an article, “Tell me, if someone needs help”. The following is an excerpt:

“Of late there has been an increase of such videos and blog postings. Although they may prove to be red herrings, Dr Balakrishnan still wants people to highlight cases they believe to have slipped through the cracks of the social safety system”

‘This just means we have more eyes and ears. Do your homework, but by all means bring them to my attention. I will investigate. My first and paramount duty is to identify and help those who are needy.’”

This is what TOC has tried to do. Yet, instead of fulfilling his “paramount duty”, the minister has chosen to humiliate a homeless couple in public.

Finally, how could MCYS have failed to notice the many tented communities spread out across Singapore?  Some campers tell TOC they’ve been homeless for months. How is it that despite repeated appeals to HDB and MCYS, these homeless people were not given shelter until after their stories were reported?

Did these people suddenly and rather inexplicably qualify for housing?  Why then were their previous applications rejected?

We welcome the minister’s response.


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85 Responses to “TOC’s response to remarks by MCYS minister – Part One”

  1. Finally we know that Sg has homeless, not only one, not the 1st one and also sure not the last one.

    Reply
  2. TOC, good response.. Will mcys care to reply?

    Reply
  3. Michael 29 April 2010

    Well done, TOC!

    Reply
  4. unbelievable 29 April 2010

    From the looks of it, there will definately be a increase in homeless people if this continues.Why keep such a MCYS minister around if he doesn’t dare to even be interviewed by al jazeera yet acuse them of false stories..i bet anyone who knows what is going on on the streets could do a much better job then him.

    Reply
  5. myviewsarerestored 29 April 2010

    TOC also copied the email to Dr Balakrishnan.

    We have yet to receive a response from either Mr Ng, or Mrs Ong, or Dr Balakrishnan.
    …………………….

    this 1 is the easiest of all..do what the americans do best…
    you talked to my people..my people will talked to your people..in between..let do lunch…let me check my PDA…opps my calender is FOOL.. how about feb 30th 2011?

    Reply
  6. andrew leung 29 April 2010

    No concrete solutions offered just excuses. Vivian is lousy at managing community development, youth and sports. He should go back to medicine.

    Reply
  7. BryanT 29 April 2010

    TOC says “MCYS cannot refuse to engage a media outlet, and then claim that that media outlet ‘failed to ascertain facts’.”

    This is the lamest excuse I have ever heard for failure to do one’s proper homework.

    I suppose henceforth, the various ministries will own the members of the media in general, and TOC specifically, A LIVING.

    Pull the other one, TOC!

    Reply
  8. inverted_cpf 29 April 2010

    Bala is not doing his job.

    it is as simple as that.

    Reply
  9. What's the Meaning of that "C" in MCYS Ministery? 29 April 2010

    FIRST, mCyc Minister must show us that sent out his people to TCs, NGOs, etc to find out the reality AT GROUND ZERO!

    Then we will tell him “Who needs help”. And ONLY when WE KNOW TOO that HE and his people WILL GIVE US A WRITTEN ACKNOWLEDGMENT of it THEN WILL WE!!!

    It HAS COME TO THIS all because their “Wayang-Kulits” and “Wayang-Gayleks” has EARNED OUR UTTER DISTRUST! Yes…. It HAS COME TO THIS has it not folks?

    Reply
  10. Spiegel 29 April 2010

    @BryanT,

    What do you mean the media hasn’t done their homework?

    While TOC and Al Jazeera and other volunteers from charitable organisations went out to meet the people on the ground to seek information, call up the authorities to get their perspective and response, you are one who is sitting at home in your armchair gobbing off without facts or should I say “homework”.

    What kind of homework do you propose the media do then? Sit back and be armchair critics? Or go out and investigate and verify? Clearly you have not read the content of TOC’s reports, or perhaps have no interest in doing so. Rather, you seem to seek nothing but to cast aspersions – a la the 50 cent gangs in China.

    Would it is right to say that in your bubble of a world, a democratic government is well within its right to kept secrets, withhold information, obsfuscate facts, deny access, publish misleading statistics?

    While the various ministries do not owe people a living, it owes a responsibility to serve the people’s interests – they are “civil servants”, the last time I checked.

    Reply
  11. Dr Syed Alwi 29 April 2010

    Incompetent, irresponsible and inappropriate behaviour. I think that VB is a liability to the PAP and grossly irresponsible towards Singaporeans. Only one thing left to do….RESIGN.

    Reply
  12. ““Yes, there are more applicants than there are people giving up their rental flats. 300 new applicants join the rental queue every month, the number of people returning flats is less than half of that. ” Mah BT

    Balakrishnan owes Aljazeera and the TOC an apology.

    Reply
  13. theAnonymous 29 April 2010

    @Spiegel

    “civil servants” are for other countries.

    in SG, they’re “rulers”.

    difference.

    Reply
  14. enigmatric 29 April 2010

    An incompetent man prevaricating – but the truth always prevail irrespective of how one tries to make it convoluted and blah blah blah …..

    Reply
  15. enigmatic 29 April 2010

    typo error above – name should be enigamtic

    Reply
  16. Dear TOC

    Where did the minister in his speech make use of AJ’s mistake to, in your words, “discredit everything else that’s been reported about homelessness”?

    Reply
  17. HUH????????? 29 April 2010

    Dear TOC – good job. I hope the PAP govt will reconsider its rules to be loosened.

    Reply
  18. actually, i tend to disagree with your experience with the mcys minister

    i myself had spotted a couple of destitutes on the streets, and wrote to him, asking for help

    he replied me within a few hours, something which gave me a surprise

    and also sent someone to check it out

    throughout the exchanges, he came across as sincere, and genuine about helping

    perhaps there’s some miscommunication between toc and the ministries?

    Reply
  19. SG in UK 29 April 2010

    Swiss Standard in 2010, when will this dream come through?

    Reply
  20. What a failure 29 April 2010

    “Of late there has been an increase of such videos and blog postings. Although they may prove to be red herrings, Dr Balakrishnan still wants people to highlight cases they believe to have slipped through the cracks of the social safety system” ‘This just means we have more eyes and ears. Do your homework, but by all means bring them to my attention. I will investigate. My first and paramount duty is to identify and help those who are needy.’”

    Oh, empty rhetorics by Mr Vivian to fool gullible Singaporeans who actually buy Straits Time everyday to read on their rubbish articles and propaganda. PAP and MSM going hand-in-hand as usual.

    Reply
  21. prettyplace 29 April 2010

    A well planned and penned article, TOC.

    You have clearly showed, the half truths are coming out of VB’s mouth.
    Wording it nicely to defend himself, does not clear the problem.

    He did not do his job. Period.

    Reply
  22. Actually, it is quite shocking that a Minister chose to reveal private information about individuals on a public platform such as Parliament. Where is the sense of decency?

    Reply
  23. Aileen Sakura 29 April 2010

    Why only Al Jazeera is different from CNN or BBC ?

    Reply
  24. Bala, so now how? Your argument seems “lame” and “inaccurate” leh ?
    So “Malu” for you.

    Reply
  25. leesjuanpat 29 April 2010

    Great job and revelation of the truth – champion for the poor and deprived, that is TOC. Well done!!

    We will patiently wait for MCYS with a liar-and-distortion-of-facts Minister to see what story they are going to make up to castigate TOC for reporting the truth this time round. Go ahead VB, make our day!!

    How can a minister distort facts for fiction? Just VOTE the hell of him out in the next election. VB is a bag of lies and truely out of touch with the common folks, especially the poor and destitute.
    How can such a person be a minister?

    Reply
  26. Vicious Bustard 29 April 2010

    Vivian Balakaninabu, I suggest you immediately engage both TOC and AJ. Your credibility is seriously at stake when repeated calls for you to address on homelessness issue is taken with light touch.

    So what if the couple has indeed benefited from whatever sales of flats that you’ve mentioned, there are still droves of them out there. This is just a tip in the iceberg. Look around you, haven’t you noticed the increasing numbers of old uncles & aunties collecting trash cans and paper cartons along the streets, and sleeping at void decks ?

    Reply
  27. antipap 29 April 2010

    “Now that the facts are out, let us see whether those who have been propagating these falsehoods have the courage and the honesty to set the record straight.”

    LOL we all know it should be the other way round.

    Reply
  28. Fugazzi 29 April 2010

    Excepting PAP and their cohorts,Vivian has never been perceived by the citizenry as a credible one lah and the fact that he is opining,reprimanding and crowing about what is being put on in the internet speaks volumes of what he is really all about.
    Perhaps, it is only cos he has to justify his wages which is way beyond what he is lah.
    Sad indeed, that it is degenerating and the decay is appallingly palpable.
    Conscience is a soft pillow and of course, it presupposes one has it within and is being conscientious.

    Reply
  29. We want Al Jazeera’s reporters to know that Singaporeans still read and support their objective news. What has happened to them is quite unfortunate because PAP views do not represent Singaporeans view since they should know how detached PAP has make themselves from Singaporeans. Vivan is a great liars all along. He appears as academic and unrealistic when facts are throw as his face. His usual parliament speech is nothing but shrugging tough and unflatattering questions. He is a goner.

    Reply
  30. Quoting BryanT:
    “TOC says “MCYS cannot refuse to engage a media outlet, and then claim that that media outlet ‘failed to ascertain facts’.”

    This is the lamest excuse I have ever heard for failure to do one’s proper homework.”

    An acceptable thing that the MCYS could have done is to contact TOC in private first. Of course, in the Singapore context, we know that it is more likely that a lawyer’s letter will be served instead.

    A government official is judged by a different from a person in a private company. The public must know, and be informed, of homelessness cases.

    I find Vivian Balakrishnan’s singling out of cases to be particularly disturbing. It is similar to Mah Bow Tan picking out three examples of people being “choosy” for their flats. Can you trust your MPs anymore? Do you want to vote for these people?

    Reply
  31. funkymonkey 29 April 2010

    that is how u kick someone’s ass. Good job TOC, very informative.

    Reply
  32. Samantha 29 April 2010

    Vivian is not doing his job. Unlike George Yeo, who at least tries, Vivian just couldn’t be bothered.

    I wouldn’t vote Vivian. Let’s hope his seat gets contested.

    Reply
  33. Joseph Teo 29 April 2010

    TOC, thank you for reporting on the matter. This, and earlier investigative reporting articles such as the one on the shabby conditions that foreign workers live in have spurred the government to act.

    I believe that the truth will lie somewhere in between. There will be people who, through unfortunate circumstance or inherent inability to adapt to the living environment in Singapore, become homeless. There will also be those who, as a consequence of their life choices, become or choose to be homeless. It can be argued that the former are deserving of help, it may be less certain in the case of the latter. Discerning between the two is sometimes a tricky business.

    However, where the government’s case is weak is where it uses partial data, inadequately analysed data, and false arguements. This has happened on a number of recent occassions:

    a)in claiming that incomes have kept up with resale flat prices;
    b)in claiming that PRs and immigrants have no impact on home prices;
    c)in producing only partial data on the couple in question, rather than the full story.

    The other unhelpful way in which it behaves is in making blanket statements like “Some irresponsible websites have also caused these falsehoods to circulate widely on the internet”. A specific critism, such as “in story A, the following facts were incorrect” or specific data such as “of 60 such instances cited by various websites, 30 were investigated, and 15 cases were found to be without merit” would be much more helpful.

    In any case, I would like to encourage TOC to continue its good work in investigative reporting. It is sorely needed in Singapore, where the mainstream press often suppresses information or else publishes only the government side of the story.

    Reply
  34. What Vivian is really saying is “Get out of my elite uncaring face”!!!

    But as a former school debater, he is trying to put it more diplomatically.

    Reply
  35. while its easy to accuse someone of NOT DOING HIS JOB, it would be better if you could actually understand what goes behind HIS JOB.

    when one story pops up in the media, its easy to feel sorry for the parties involved and to point fingers, but i think we should also understand no one is perfect and everyone is trying hard to do his job well.

    Reply
  36. anonymous 30 April 2010

    We don’t want the Government to shut us out of information loop or supply us half-truths either. WE WANT FREEDOM OF INFORMATION LAWS AND LET US DECIDE IF THE GOVERNMENT’S RESPONSES TO ANY CRISIS IS ADEQUATE OR OTHERWISE.

    No need for second guessing on either side. Will the Government respond positively on information access rights of its citizenry and media research needs?

    Reply
  37. they should put 2 homeless families into 1 flat

    Reply
  38. lefleche 30 April 2010

    Someone mentioned that VB is sincere and willing to help. Perhaps on a personal, non-public, non-professional setting, he may be a nice person. But so far, the public face he has been setting regarding the poor and needy is extremely disappointing. From the famous debate he had with Lily Neo on the $30 increase in welfare for the destitute to the way he handles the homeless issue reflects, at least, in parliament, in his official capacity as minister, is one who does not care. maybe he is even unaware of the severity of the situation, and does not want to know because it does not square with the image he wants to project. At the public level, he seems all out to save face and deny rather than to solve the problem. Maybe he is under pressure from someone higher to hide the truth or maybe he is not. We will never know. All we know is based on his public stance on helping the poor and with this latest revelation, not only he seems consistently uncompassionate and disinterested in Singaporeans welfare, he also does not seemed completely honest by hiding the fact that AJ and TOC has been asking him for his views but he had denied them. All in all, seems like a coward and someone who serves the party and not the people.

    Reply
  39. Aljunied Resident 30 April 2010

    TOC, wait long long for the minister to response.

    I have requested from FM of Aljunied GRC and right up to the authority of our PM to provide the names of all those who are involved in making decision to invest our sinking fund. Still very silence.

    I could not find this info in the Aljunied website, can anybody advise this poor citizen where else can I go. Should I write to the president now, since the PM has no info on this.

    Reply
  40. myviewsarerestored 30 April 2010

    valen 30 April 2010
    while its easy to accuse someone of NOT DOING HIS JOB, it would be better if you could actually understand what goes behind HIS JOB.
    ……………………..

    so what is behin his job? cared to share?
    i know what is behind me..traffic uncles/aunties/sbs buses as well

    Reply
  41. myviewsarerestored 30 April 2010

    anon 29 April 2010
    perhaps there’s some miscommunication between toc and the ministries?
    ……………..
    perhaps dr balekampond is orderin 40 sticks of satays in malacca street..you do know where is malacca street…a street full of homeless people as well..just behin jalan sultan grand mosque…

    Reply
  42. CrazyBum 30 April 2010

    “but i think we should also understand no one is perfect and everyone is trying hard to do his job well.”

    when you are paid millions, it is very hard for us to understand

    Reply
  43. SG in UK 30 April 2010

    Hi CrazyBum,

    when you are paid millions, it is very hard for us to understand.
    A good one, indeed. LOL!

    By the way, did VB brings food to these homeless people?
    Cannot stomach the truth that Singapore have homeless people, still. First world country, so you said. Sigh!

    Reply
  44. Isn’t there any comment from anonymous insiders in MCYS? or people who are close to Vivian?

    Surely they can give light to why Vivian is behaving in such a strange way?

    Reply
  45. I urge the TOC team to send it to the Straits Times requesting it to be unedited and printed…

    See what Baalalallalalaa says…

    Reply
  46. Vivian Bala characterises what happens the moment you wear white and white. Suddenly you leave our world and go to that lala land where the truth is defined by what people are not allowed to say.

    His comments in Parliament are ridiculous. The man sold his apartment – so what? what’s the point of living in a 200k apartment if you have no other income? You can’t eat the plumbing.

    The woman has a flat with her ex husband. That takes the cake! So she is supposed to move back in with her ex?

    He says they were offered sheltered accomodation – I would like to know what kind of “sheltered accomodation” that is.

    Every day is the same thing. The PAP’s answers to questions in Parliament and elsewhere are infantile, and intended for an uneducated population. I am really tired of this rubbish.

    Reply
  47. The doctor is just too busy in trying to put SG on the map for the coming Youth Olympics.

    Anyway, his rebuttal to the homelessness issue using just that couple is just too plain weak, he should have brought up more to defend himself. Any Sgean who lived here for more than 10 years would have to agree with me that those people camping by the beaches were not around 10 years ago(or maybe not as much).

    But now, I would think that they are having an encampment there, what does this shows about SG? With all the hooha over its economic growth, the domestic issues remains unresolved.

    I wish the government would stop carry the I-know-all, what-I-do_is-right attitude. You provided the SGeans with education(which I am thankful for) but refuse to engage them as if they would not be able to comprehend your response. They should give us more credit than that. Media is a powerful tool and they know that, so they are starting the discrediting war. But at least make a good 1st hit please.

    Reply
  48. TOC response gives me the same feeling when I watched “ip man 2″ when the hero thrashed the vivian, oh sorry I mean villian.

    There is obviously a growing homeless issue in Singapore instead of facing up to the problem, the Minister chooses to deny the existence of the problem. Even if this man made $300k from selling his HDB property ten years ago but lost everything during the recession and now stays in a tent, does that make it not a homeless issue but one he-deserve-it-issue?

    Reply
  49. WHAT TO EXPECT FROM A MINISTER THAT TELL LIES............... 30 April 2010

    WHAT TO EXPECT FROM A MINISTER THAT TELL LIES……………

    u“If you were a poor person, anywhere on this planet, Singapore is the one place ………, where you will have food on the table. Even if you can’t afford it, we will have meals delivered to you.”
    http://zh.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/394784?page=1

    Reply
  50. TOC, from your excursion to the homeless park, do you know what is the breakdown in racial proportion?

    I have the impression many homeless are Malays but cannot confirm.

    If this is true, this might explain PAP’s calluous attitude towards homelessness as they are champion racists against Malays.

    If this isn’t true, then their attitude probably stem from the fact that homeless cannot vote against them. Their aim is probably drive the down throdden, who will vote against them, to homelessness where they can’t do that.

    Reply