An announcement by the Youth Wing of the Workers’ Party.
The Workers’ Party Youth Wing (WPYW) invites you to attend this seventh installment of the YouthQuake series of forums. This forum will bring together three Singaporeans who will share with you their unique insights and experiences on the current public housing affordability and policies. It promises to be an engaging and enriching session for everyone!
Selecting and financing a HDB flat
By William Hooi, 37, Teacher at Clementi Town Secondary School.
William will speak on his experience in getting his own HDB flat and share tips and budgeting techniques on selecting an ideal house.
Analysis of Facts and Figures
By Leong Sze Hian, an alumnus of Harvard University, he has authored 4 books, been quoted over 1000 times in the media , host of a radio show on money matters and a daily newspaper column, has been a Wharton Fellow and invited to speak more than 100 times in more than 20 countries on 5 continents. He has served as Honorary Consul of Jamaica, Chairman of the Institute of Administrative Management, the UNESCO Leadership Chair Council and founding advisor to the Financial Planning Associations of Indonesia and Brunei. He has 3 Masters degrees in Financial Planning & Financial Services, 2 Bachelors degrees in Economics & Insurance, and 13 professional qualifications.
Mr Leong will share with us on HDB issues that matter the most – statistics and affordability. He will present his analysis of the facts and figures to give us a better picture of the affordability of HDB flats for young Singaporeans.
Bringing affordable housing back to the public
By Gerald Giam, 33, Senior Consultant with a global technology consulting firm and a member of the Workers’ Party.
Gerald will analyse the root causes of the current housing affordability crisis, and share his suggestions on how the system can be significantly improved to serve Singaporeans better. He will argue that there needs to be a fundamental shift in both policies and mindsets, in order to fulfil the core national objectives of providing truly affordable public housing for all citizens who need it.
Details of the forum:
15 May 2010,
Sat 2.30pm – 5.00pm
@ WP HQ, 216-G Syed Alwi Road, #02-03
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price of public housing (anywhere in singapore) = construction cost (typically S$120,000 nowadays) + “land cost” paid to SLA (hence HDB says it makes a “loss” because it pays this big sum to SLA of the government)
construction cost has gone up some, but the main culprit is the second part which is not published (the first part isn’t published either but it’s easy to calculate) (the second part is very easy to calculate too, e.g. $300,000 for punggol flat minus $110,000 for construction = $190,000 “land” cost)
what has happened to the prices for these 4 years, which are different from the prices of the last 41 years in our history? why so special, these 4 years?
the reasons we all know now – about building very few units in the face of importing people in garguantuan numbers.
many agree that it sounds ridiculous for us to do all this, resulting in silly never-before-seen prices (the “land cost” component) that affects our very own Singaporean people.
but there is a solution, it is just conveniently ignored by the relevant people, not mentioned in the papers, nor in the beautiful speeches, full page profiles and other pre-election not-yet-cooling-day ok-to-publish propaganda.
this high and arbitrary “land cost” is a result of a formula used to calculate the price of the new units. this formula has only been around in very recent years as a brilliant idea of a scholar. scholars don’t always make good formulas.
imagine a slightly different formula:
selling price = construction cost + “land cost” (pegged by scholar’s formula to resale prices) – $20,000
at once, prices drop by $20,000
HDB gives SLA $20,000 less and this money comes from the pocket of the new flat buyers. so they get a bit less of the huge “land cost” amount, poor thing.
or make it -$40,000 instead.
or -$60,000.
at some point in this mathematical exercise, you reach the stage whereby $110,000 construction cost + $big,sum,of,money is still significantly less than the silly prices for resale flats. and people would say “i’ll buy the more sensibly-priced new ones instead of your resale flat”
moral of the story?
the entire system is constructed by the administration, the supply regulated by them, the demand determined by them, the final formula to calculate the sale price created by their scholar.
by letting them delude us into thinking it’s really a free market, we deprive ourselves of a simple solution such as this.
the major developers are GLCs, the HDB minister is MBT. By manipulating supply and demand of land, property and importing millions of foreigners; prices of property have gotten out of control and reach.
a lousy located 4rm 90 sqm was asking $350k 2 weeks ago. this week, he is asking for $430k, COV $65k.
4 and 5 rooms flats are now price between $350k to $410k in the latest BTO exercise.
The next generation of young would not afford anything decent, they need to sleep in with their parents.
when we neglect to have alternatives, when we finally need one, we don’t have one. this round, we don’t have an alternative to government, to choose an alternative policy with regard to housing or immigration.
when we had alternative empty flats in Sengkang or Punggol some years back, we neglected to see how valuable it was, instead we labelled it a “waste”. ok, “we” did not. the expensive minister did.
now, we have in a similar way, no alternative. the “lousy” flat you mentioned holds you prisoner. you have no alternative which was only a few years ago available. a few years ago, you could tell the flat owner – i’ll go buy a new Punggol $200k flat. it’s gone now, because the policy makers decided these alternative empty flats were a “waste”.
what happened to the $200k Punggol flats which cost $100k to build? did the world change so much that it is no longer possible to see it again? no. construction cost rose perhaps $20-30k a flat. not the $100k+ more that you see today.
in that case, what happened? where did these $200k flats go in a matter of a few years? how did we get ourselves into this situation?
the only way a market can change so drastically is through manipulation. e.g. deciding that we should not have $200k empty flats sitting around for you as an alternative choice – because it is a “waste”. this, and other manipulations of supply and demand, resulted in our situation.
after manipulating it like this, come out to make a press release, and call it “Free Market”.
How can young Singaporeans afford to pay for cheap low quality flats at an astronomical price that will take them a lifetime to pay?
Unknown to most, they are being attacked by the world’s most dangerous mosquito called the “Mah” mosquito which has its origin from the “Pap” mosquito found only in Singapore and discovered 44 years ago. Flushing them out in total is the only way to stop this contagious and deadly disease.
there is no way in hell or Heaven a 1st time simple earnin couple buy their hdb 4 rooms simple hdb flat if they wanto to spend together buyin a cheap proton saga car with a savin for their weddin ceremony..thats where the parents come in to chip/subsidised their future lives ahead…
a simple equation..let assumed the couples in Q each earned $2000/month…
after cpf deductions..mrt fares..meals outside(assumin BOTH of them are NON smokers) how much can they save?
this was the same very survey bangala in bangledenshi was facin (now you know why they come to singapore/middleast to work) in order to save up for their future married lives…the government in bangledenshi is very very concerned..
The issue is whether there is a property bubble. Foreign brokers say no and still tell foreigners to buy property shares.
http://atans1.wordpress.com/2010/04/20/is-spore-residential-property-in-bubble/
http://atans1.wordpress.com/2010/04/22/bullish-on-spore-property-deutsche-bank/
HDB mkt willl follow uptrend.
Subsidies or profiteering and market manipulations by the Government? The answer is NOT hard to find. Why construction costs and HDB prices are only ONE WAY AND IT IS UP UP AND AWAY?.
And what about construction material costs -especially metals? It shot up to the roof before 2008 and came crashing back to earth. So if HDB prices keep going up, I have to ask when did the “subsidy” started and when did it ended? Look at the 5-year historical charts for metals used in construction, for nickel, copper, zinc and aluminium and you know if HDB is lying or not.
http://www.kitcometals.com/charts/nickel_historical.html
http://www.kitcometals.com/charts/copper_historical.html
http://www.kitcometals.com/charts/copper_historical.html
http://www.kitcometals.com/charts/aluminum_historical.html
WHAT MORE CAN I SAY????
@ DML
The question of bubble or not is judgment call and relative. Broker’s call, be it shares or property investment, needs to read with a pinch of salt.
Was it “business” advice or “investment” advice??? The outcome varies from the distance of earth to the sun of relevance and consequences in practice – anywhere in the world. Nobody ever said there was a property bubble going on for so long in USA and Europe even Hedge Funds QUIETLY betting its crash to make a fortune. Right???
in the year 1998-99, all IT analyst and IT consultant at silicon valley said the planes will fall from the sky and ships will crash, because they are not y2k compliant, as all programmes recognise up to 1999, 2000, no one knows, i got out of the growth funds and invested in bonds, any fall?
then they said the tech market will boom,10000points and idiots all buy, but at the back these scums are selling their stocks, then come the crash,i get out of bonds and got into gold in 2001-2002, people have short memory.
same financial crisis happens in europe 10 years ago, but asia cannot remember, 1997. Then they whack hkg stock markets, gov has to come in to prop up market and buy stocks, invested billions of reserves.
now we have many eu countries in bad shape, due to excessive bubbles in housing, spain, portugal, greece and dubai, but here in asia, no way that is going to happen, no wonder our ministers are also daft as mm said, “singaporeans are daft”
in the year 1998-99, all IT analyst and IT consultant at silicon valley said the planes will fall from the sky and ships will crash, because they are not y2k compliant, as all programmes recognise up to 1999, 2000, no one knows, i got out of the growth funds and invested in bonds, any fall?
then they said the tech market will boom,10000points and idiots all buy, but at the back these scums are selling their stocks, then come the crash,i get out of bonds and got into gold in 2001-2002, people have short memory.
same financial crisis happens in europe 10 years ago, but asia cannot remember, 1997. Then they whack hkg stock markets, gov has to come in to prop up market and buy stocks, invested billions of reserves.
now we have many eu countries in bad shape, due to excessive bubbles in housing, spain, portugal, greece and dubai, but here in asia, no way that is going to happen, no wonder our ministers are also daft as mm said, “singaporeans are daft”
herd mentality.
the cheapest 4-room HDB flats in existence now are the new ones in punggol (by definition, because new ones are always “lower price” than the resale ones) at $263,000.
at 90% loan, 30 year term, 2.6% HDB loan, you need $3159p.m. income to “afford” it for 30% of your income.
if your combined income is less than $3159p.m., you can forget about a 4-room flat in Singapore. by definition you have been outclassed. and going by the promise of the government that prices will only keep going up, you have been Eternally Outclassed.
If you have the $3159p.m. you still have hope for salvation. You can either earn $3159p.m. by yourself, or share this 30-year life sentence with your wife at $1580p.m. each.
If both of you earn together less than $1580p.m. a person, you both have been Eternally Outclassed. Please look for a 2-bedroom flat.
From the HDB website of historical loan interest rates http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10328p.nsf/w/UpgradeHistoricalHDBConIntRate?OpenDocument
the average interest over the last 14.5 years is 2.943%p.a.
At this interest rate, combined income of $3303p.m. is required to keep affordability at 30% – this income is higher than $3159 because HDB loan interest rate over the last 14.5 years has been higher on average than the current 2.6%p.a. rate.
i.e. if you don’t have $3303p.m. on single income, or $1652p.m. a person on dual-income for the next 30 years (your wife HAS to work for 30 years as well, no less) you have been Eternally Outclassed from 4-room flats anywhere on this island, at today’s prices.
Tomorrow’s prices however, rest assured, according to the government, will keep going up. It has been going up at 3%, 5% or more every 3 months. That’s somewhat higher than general inflation rate and quite a bit higher than the pay rise your boss enjoys. Happy catching up with this runaway train.
Or start thinking of what to do with a 2-bedroom home in Punggol.
The global credit bubble has burst. Our property bubble here, encouraged by the government and the big developers, will also burst soon, and this time, there will be no quick recovery (5 – 7 years) as we were used to. The great recession (depression) will last at least 15 years as we’ve seen happen in Japan. Fifteen years since the bubble burst in Japan, the country is still languishing and suffering from deflation.
So my advice to all reading TOC is not to fall into the trap of the engineered property bubble. The world is drowning in debt, and we are no different.
The only group that benefited from all these schemes are the immigrants. If locally born do not stand up, we will all lose out. Believe me, violent can help resolve problems. I had enough as a local. I had enough.
there is this group of rich who are timing the market to enrich themselves. at its peak price or close, these people usually cash out their assets and wait for it to fall. flushed with cash, some can’t wait and are itching to buy and own properties but they are not prepared to buy at a high so the next best thing to do is pray or call/instigate for the market to crash.
when and if the market crashes, the large proportion of the middle class will be hit the hardest. the unlucky rich will too be hit hard and some will never recover from their debts.
who benefited the most? the sly property agents,the flippers, the savvy investors,the rich, your greedy neighbor who bought many units in your condo when prices were at rock bottom before joining the MC to table for embloc sale etc.
we need to understand who will benefit the most and who will be hurt the most when the market crashes.
once you understand what is at stake, resolve politically to protect the interests of the larger community.
take an extreme scenario, where nice homes (doesn’t matter what type) go for S$100,000 (still more expensive than malaysia)
and we manage to keep it forever at S$100,000 (malaysia succeeded in doing something like that)
foreigners get burnt playing such a market (malaysians burnt foreigners well to protect their locals their market in this manner)
the locals, on the other hand, are able to buy a nice home as and when they need it, perhaps to start a new family branch. when they don’t need it any more, and sell, they get back that S$100,000. no win, no lose.
you can’t be greedy in this system. you don’t slog your life in this system. you don’t lose your pants in this system. it’s not a casino, it’s part of the necessities of life like the mee siam without hum you need.
if you want to upgrade to a home 50% larger, you pay the S$150,000. don’t have to slog too. but the extra S$50,000 can’t be used for other purposes like buying car perhaps.
point is, WHY must property prices be made to rise all the time? to whose benefit? if it stays put forever (malaysia), who benefits? if it continues to creep downwards for 20 years (japan), who benefits?
It is hard to believe our MIW, who think themselves the smartest people in Singapore, can be so naive as to cling to the idea that a continuosly inflated property market is good for everybody and would make everybody happy. Perhaps their multi-million-dollar salaries are making them blind and deaf to the cries of the young, and other prudent and hardworking people, who have been saving to buy a decent roof over their heads, only to find the market pushed beyond their reach. The MIW must think everyone in Singapore is a millionaire like them.
“point is, WHY must property prices be made to rise all the time? to whose benefit? if it stays put forever (malaysia), who benefits? if it continues to creep downwards for 20 years (japan), who benefits?”
if sg will to keep her land cost and home prices low, sg will not be what it is today.
you’ll probably not be safe walking 3 am in the night. homes too will be like most hk public housing, rundown and roaches infested.
there is a long list of economic woes but i shall keep it short and sharp – at the end of the day, our able local talents here will be even more motivated to leave this debilitated island for greener and more prosperous pasture else where.
but thank god, credited to our healthy property market , 4 in 5 now think sg is cool and a great place to live, work and play.
For decades we’ve been hookwinked and I pray that it’s time we wake up from our hibernation or it might be too late.All those years we ‘re daft to believe and trust them with our mandate for them to govern.As power tends to corrupt and absolute power cause unimaginable destructions,we should unite and forgo temporary inconveniences to exercise our rights to eradicate this cancerous growths inorder to saviour the hope for a better future for our generation and after.
@dunbegreen
The inaffordability of the property market in an area has absolutely nothing to do with its quality of life.
Look at Germany and the Netherlands, where housing prices have remained in line with inflation for the past 30 years.
@dunbegreen
Your logic is flawed. Asset inflation is mirage wealth – it is an essential item of survival, so the replacement costs is equally inflated.
Without asset inflation, Singapore is just a concrete jungle made of only debt liabilities.Foreign investments constitute over 45% of our GDP. Otherwise, we have no domestic economy. No agriculture, fishing, or natural resources. Only a handful of struggling GLCs and little family-owned neighborhood stores. With asset inflation, the beneficiary is Government-backed GLC, HDB, SLA, banks and property developers. So to give a semblance of “domestic” economy, the Government manipulated a price bubble to create an air-bag economy to give a imaginery fiction of great wealth ownership.
The diabolical fallacy is stark. HDB is not owned by buyer-occupier but a lease arrangement YET WE PAID PROPERTY TAX ON AN ASSET ( actually a taxable liability) that has NO mortgage value for banking credit. IT IS FICTIONAL WEALTH IN FACT AND IN LAW.
Mirage wealth give a false impression of wealthy state because the contrasting debt appears smaller BUT NOT ACTUALLY SMALLER until you paid of the lease. False wealth creation creates a mess of other cancerous consequences – costs of living pressures built into the economy and domestic consumption and falling standard of living affordability.
Why do you want this kind of misery? Singaporeans migrating to Australia (until recently) is motivated by cheaper housing and costs of living pressures. The quality of those going out exceeds the quality of migrants coming in with few exceptions. That is living proof of foolhardy politics of asset inflation.
sorry, i beg to differ.
sg has got nothing except brain power and scarcity of land to build on.
hence, land cost and real estate are huge revenue for the government and investors(think tycoons) to multiply their wealth.
you need lots of money to fuel more money to build and manage such a cosmopolitan city like sg.
no comment about european countries as their demographics are completely different from ours.
yes they can, if they don’t flip flop n speculate, buy direct and stay there
it’s a means to an end.
there is no short cut to wealth. don’t enjoy already(the efficiency and top notch infrastructures – btw, doesn’t come free hor) and then come and complain.
@dunbergreen
Nation building and long term sustainable growth is like running a marathon race; we’ve to learn how to conserve our scarce resources and energy so that we can last the race. However, our govt. is running Singaporeans like a 100-metre sprint. We’ll all be burned out before we can complete the race. An artificially inflated or runaway property market is not a sustainable growth model in the long run. We’ll collapse like a house of cards. Foreign speculators will run away from us like jack ass rabbits
guys, we are not aliens and unfamiliar with global management of “casino chips”. do we have a choice not to plug into the very lifestyle YOU ARE CONSUMING? would you have enjoyed your exalted education and ample white collar jobs opportunities that take you all over the world if not for “inflated or mirage wealth”?
this inflated wealth you have denounced is far from an optical illusion. daily, you are riding on a first class “mirage” to work and play which costs billions of inflated dollars to build. your iconic shopping belt which transform itself every ten years or so is not a desert oasis from a far distance. your mirage wealth has created tangible consumable products and services your forefathers can only dream of.
although i agree it is a SHORT CUT to wealth generation(100 meter sprint) – it took us less than a generation to build this nation. but we are in a different kind of race that was not possible before the advent of transistors.we are forced into a race driven by no nonsense pragmatism and a changing global order.
is this all bad??
we shall see.
guys, we are not aliens and unfamiliar with global management of “casino chips”. do we have a choice not to plug into the very lifestyle YOU ARE CONSUMING? would you have enjoyed your exalted education and ample white collar jobs opportunities that take you all over the world if not for “inflated or mirage wealth”?
this inflated wealth you have denounced is far from an optical illusion. daily, you are riding on a first class “mirage” to work and play which costs billions of inflated dollars to build. your iconic shopping belt which transform itself every ten years or so is not a desert oasis from a far distance. your mirage wealth has created tangible consumable products and services your forefathers can only dream of.
although i agree it is a SHORT CUT to wealth generation(100 meter sprint) – it took us less than a generation to build this nation. but we are in a different kind of race that was not possible before the advent of transistors.we are forced into a race driven by no nonsense pragmatism and a changing global order.
is this all bad?
we shall see.
Only time will tell if our policies are short-sighted and unsustainable. The US subprime market was based on the same principle of ever rising prices, and it has crashed.
In the meanwhile, big developers here are acting like robber barons jacking up prices at will and hoarding properties which they can’t sell or rent out. “Rich” foreigners (“think tycoons”) are doing the same. As the biggest landlord in Singapore, what is our govt. doing to stop this? What is our govt. doing to protect our young and our prudent and hardworking natives?
@ dunbegreen
If assets inflation of “optical” wealth is really that beneficial and durable of conspicuous consumption “WE ARE NOW CONSUMING” in the preferred lingo, how come Japan still in the struggling throes of the “lost decade” commencing 1990 – that is 20 years ago? How come those super prime assets bubbles have decimated tens of millions of jobs in USA and tens of millions of jobs in EU? How come prime real estates become prime tent cities living overnight across America – the bastion of uninhibited capitalism of illusory wealth? How come Greece begged for S$220 billion for Germany and forced miserable austerity of unknown durable periods on its citizenry. Greece can sell its idealic islands to foreign countries, can we sell Pulau Tekong or Pedra Branca?
There is no DURABLE WEALTH out of fiction. EU government is drowning in a sea of debt because recession-ravaged economy does not earn profits for corporate business any more than taxes for Govenrment coffers. The same is in USA. The nightmare is continuiing.
Why is Australia and Canada booming – real wealth in the grounds despite global meltdown in 2009? Why did South Korea without these natural resources achieved the highest 7-year economic growth in 2009 global chill? They got indigenous domestic sector – the real hardcore ecnomy servicing global market.
We want to live and spend fictional money on borrowed future debt ridden crisis like USA, EU, Japan? Let us all Singaporeans not get lost in the insanity of living in the wealth of “Alice-in-wonderland” bankrupt tommorrow syndrome. The consequences for this little red dot is too hard to contemplate. South Korea spent what it has already earned, remember this, ALWAYS!!!
dunbegreen2 May 2010
if sg will to keep her land cost and home prices low, sg will not be what it is today.
you’ll probably not be safe walking 3 am in the night. homes too will be like most hk public housing, rundown and roaches infested.
there is a long list of economic woes but i shall keep it short and sharp – at the end of the day, our able local talents here will be even more motivated to leave this debilitated island for greener and more prosperous pasture else where.
but thank god, credited to our healthy property market , 4 in 5 now think sg is cool and a great place to live, work and play.
+ + + + + +
what you say is unusual and it’ll be nice if you could elaborate.
but when property prices were significantly lower 4 years ago, did we have so much danger on our streets?
why must we increase it to the level today, instead of keeping it at the level 4 years ago? what was wrong with the level 4 years ago?
why is it that only in these last 4 years, with these new sets of prices and supply-demand ratios, do ministers of national developments have to rescue their career in newspapers every now and then, and have to keep barking the same word “affordable” repeatedly as if nobody wanted to listen to him or nobody was convinced?
the situation is a bit too obvious for even the national media to whitewash – that’s why they’ve given up. the question is, will they push it all the way to test the vote of the people?
and dunbegreen2, you sound like you have a lot to say. i think we’ve the time and patience to hear you out. we’re not like ministers of national developments.
“….4 in 5 now think sg is cool and a great place to live, work and play…..”
Really???
Here is one contrarian spectrum of view
http://www.asiaone.com/A1Home/Poll+Index/Poll+Index.html
Leaving this aside, i shall wait for your responses BEFORE i give you compelling evidences from the practical world why asset inflation is insane from businessman, CEO’s and seasoned asset traders’ viewpoints.
Let’s not be suckered by any vague papy explanation or sugary handouts before the elections, regarding HDB upgrading or whatever else.
Let’s be single-minded. Let’s vote in all opposition parties.
The coming general election is our long-awaited opportunity to vote in a strong opposition voice in Parliament.
We have been tricked for too long, by the papies.
i support the above ALL PLEASE VOTE THE OPPOSITION AND ENOUGH OF PAY AND PAY…………….
will the forum address the meaning of the newspaper article below?
“Most flats sold with low cash upfront: HDB”
http://www.cpf.gov.sg/imsavvy/infohub_article.asp?readid={781862827-5181-1014676093}
Some queries include why there is such a conclusion despite the numbers in the article getting larger and larger. Does the problem like with the readers, the newspaper, HDB, or the administration in charge of HDB?
We have reached the stage whereby newspapers can print a set of figures clearly, and yet give an opposite conclusion to the figures. Will we stand for such practices to continue? Currently there is no reply from the newspaper on this issue. Will the forum bring it up for discussion?
EXCUSE ME! Left and right pockets form both sides of the equation as well as “BOTH SIDES OF THE EVILS”! What is the point of argument when the despicable ruling party controls both sides of the equation?
It is really simple and easily been understood, my dear!
You do not need a Havard or Yale degree or whatsoever to understand the equation!
No comparision! New York is just a financial city of the US and Tokyo is also just a financial city of Japan! Same, same, Hong Kong/Shanghai is just a financial city of the PRC!
SINGAPORE IS A WHOLE CITY-STATE of SINGAPORE with no hinder-land!
Singapore is the only country in the world that encourages inflation in all things that her citizens consume ,be it housing, transport, petrol, erp, food, education etc. Everything increases but government always keep their hands off and say leave it to market forces. If everything leave it to market forces then we don’t need this current government, the citizenry can easily managed them.
Problem with this government is that they always use price to solve all the problems because this country is build on materialism without a strong moral and ethical strength build into the society. This kind of hollow society may fall sooner.
As regards to HDB asset inflation, government especially MBT enthusiasm in pushing up HDB prices to increase value of assets is for two reasons:
1. To hole out our CPF as much as possible to be converted to brick and mortar where they make a handsome profits and avoid paying you the interest if your CPF stays in the CPF a/c. This cheap money from the profits and interests avoidance shall be diverted for investment in the GIC.
2.This government trying all means to reduce the possibility of government giving assistance to senior citizens retiring as a pauper. So they help to ramp up the price of HBD so that you can sell your house when you retire in need of money. They will always renegade on their obligations to help you if you still have a HDB flat. They already make clear that making the first charge on selling your HDB flats is the best option for retirement especially when the CPF Life option may ultimately loose its value due to future inflations.
hdb says people who buy now are envious of those who got it at a lower price (those who bought from 1960s to 2009), and that’s why they are unhappy.
it’s a bit of stating the obvious (if you inflate it every year, of course everyone else would have bought it at a lower price) and a distraction ploy. they avoid mentioning the RATE of inflation – which has extraordinary speed only in the last 3-4 years, coinciding with population shift policy as well as policy shift – allowing flats to be run as businesses for renting out.
all this is nothing new. almost every day we read about it on this website. yet persistently, hdb pretends nobody is talking about these two main issues and therefore doesn’t see a need to explain them because the talk never even took place where they’re concerned.
that is a very good way to manage a country – pretend nobody is talking.
talking .. about .. what was it again we’re talking about??
Q: i’m not happy with these inflated prices
A: who ask you envy people who bought at lower prices over last few years, you should have bought then too
Q: so it’s my fault that the rate of prices increased disproportionately?
A: who ask you envy people?
Q: shouldn’t the authorities moderate such increases instead of inflating prices in leaps and bounds?
A: who ask you envy people? it’s free market anyway, we just decided to reduce building drastically and stop land sales for a while, and suddenly increase population, but then my point was, who ask you envy people? don’t change the subject.
Q: so we pay you lots of $ to do a good job in regulating this inflation, but this skyrocketing inflation is what you have to show for it?
A: who ask you envy our pay? you’re a damn bloody envious person, and stop changing the subject.
Q: so you suddenly let nearly the whole island turn their flats into businesses instead of gradually doing it. is it because you forgot to build flats to cater for the population skyrocketing?
A: there you go again, envy people’s businesses. if we only let those who live in the flats for long time (20+ years) sublet, these are the elderly people who need rental income, then you younger people will be envious again. so we suddenly and drastically transform the islandscape by letting everyone hitting 5 years hang up sign boards advertising Room/Flat To Let. envy isit??
Q: I love the sudden way you do this. Is this in response to your sudden realisation of facts instead of being able to forecast and pre-empt?
A: …
Blinkymummy has made an analysis on the affordability of HDB flats for different buyers like the young couple. This blog entry was linked in Temasek Review. http://blinkymummy.blogspot.com/2010/04/hdb-flat-price-of-progress.html
I have nothing to lose now. Everytime, retrenchment the local are first to go. Leaving the FTrash saving up and be prepared going home with tons of cash. I can assure everyone here, if we the jobless continue to be jobless. YOG will be the day we showcase our international attention.
hdb data shows that the current buyers of resale flats have mostly hit their definition of affordability limit. a large proportion of buyers have exceeded this limit but yet continue to buy because they seem to feel they have no choice. so even the hdb’s favourite number of 30% affordability has been exceeded already and all this is based on the calculations during this period, when interest rates are the lowest ever. if you base it on the calculations of a more sane interest rate, they would have exceeded the limit months ago.
even the highest income of $8k a month are unable to buy the most expensive rung of HDB flats because this 30% affordability limit has already been exceeded. therefore in order to buy this most expensive rung, these $8k a month earners have to stretch beyond their limit.
place your bets now – how long more will hdb continue to insist they have not lost sight of the meaning of affordability – or how long more before they concede that they have to replace their department head by someone else, because there are differences in strategy, that they are relooking at their definition of affordability, and there might have been an honest policy mistake.
will the forum address whether we are all misunderstanding the market?
A lot of discussion is based on the RPI – resale price index. Is it the correct gauge for the prices? Because if i’m not wrong, the RPI does not take into account floor area right? Should we even be using that, or should we do estimates to modify this number into something sensible, since the administration refuses to publish us sensible numbers?
For example – the RPI 10 years ago was based on flats which are roughly what size?
The RPI 5 years ago was based on flats of a different size? how many % different? Shall we modify this RPI by this percentage to get the new corrected RPI?
How about flats now? what size are they transacted at? Do we need to modify today’s RPI to reflect the different average transacted flat size?
If the authorities refuse to release these “sensitive” numbers to us because it makes us very sensitive people, and therefore it makes them very sensitive too, can we sensitively estimate on our own, as usual, without their generous help?
HDB is pegging new flats to near market rates. So young married couples have to slog through their lifetime to complete the loan payment.
in malaysia, they have low cost housing for the locals, which foreigners “cannot touch”, 15k to 25k MR.
foreigners are allowed to buy properties are 250k and above but last month, things changes, foreigners can only buy at 500k and above.
why subsidize hdb, 1-4 room flats, are not protected for the young parents and poor, you mean they are not in existence.
why the need to multiply profits and earnings for such subsidize flats, who does it serves, the people or the gov.?
such flats should never be sold on the resale markets but return back to the hdb for the young parents and poor, never mind the earnings as those who are able, will go the the upmarkets in 5 rooms and above. Therefore, no earnings should be made here for 1-4 rooms hdb flats and same restrictions in place for PR’s and FT’s and such.( low cost housing are for locals only)
malaysians know very well these restrictions and yet here in singapore, these m/PR’s speculate on the resale markets for these 1-4 room hdb flats, thus causing prices to rise further, knowing full well that land is limited here and cheap housing can make money.
they have wider options of not buying and renting is available and the choice to return home should they find things too expensive here, but they want to make fast money, reason prices rise.
there are 500k malaysians staying and working here and daily we have 100k on the road via the causeway links.
these are the imported inflation we see in housing, transport and food prices and with the “REJECTS” and “FREE LOADERS” from india, myanmar, filipinos and PRCs, we have hyper inflation and who benefits in the end, the young parents, the poor, or the rich getting richer.?
lots of people do not know that they are paying high prices here until they live in malaysia or indonesia, they will find that the real cost singaporeans are paying,for safety, convenience, clean enviroment is so much higher.
they presume that the high S$ nullify the true cost of living here.
if there are no young singaporean couples to pay the high price, how can the malayian PR who’s decided to say bye-bye sell and pass it on to them at that new high price?
thank you singaporeans, and have a wonderful liff.
any posting on what went on in the wp forum? apart from the photos of ISD agents, we’ve seen them all before..
The 3rd generation PAP leaders are of no match to Goh Keng Swee and his peers.
They implement policies that harms the people and the nation. They are unable to explain and they think it is not even necessary (The sleepy eyes DPM Teo said that PAP policies is to implement first and explain only when necessary), the fact is that they can’t defense what they do.
Eevn figures such as HDB cost can be twisted as such.
We have 2 generation of educated Singaporean, i wonder how long can the HDB accounting trick work ?
People have lost their trust on 3rd generation million $ PAP ministers !
Chalking UP profits for both TH and GIC to “Venture-Gamble” for “Long-Term” Investment March to LOSE HYPER-HUGE by SELLING For LOSSEs BIG-TIME In-Jitters IN THE SHORT TERM!!!!!!!! That’s about it Folks!!!!!!!!!!!! HC vs LKY “talents” in “forecasting” as “not doing the work” yah! JUST QUOTING someone leh!
And Dear “national theatre”, you forgot that there is even one very active “1st
generation “leader’ who has been no match for DR. GOH KENG SWEE ever since he stepped down in 1984! That’s been some 1/4 of a CENTURY right or not? JUST forecast and “twiddling” policies like children building “castles” in the sand?