This is the remark posted by Malik Mohammad Ghazali which got him arrested by the police for “inciting violence”. Malik posted the comment on the “I hate YOG organising committee” Facebook page.
What is your opinion on the matter? Is Malik guilty of “inciting violence”?
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From the Singapore Democratic Party website:
It is also disturbing that comments made by netizens can be taken out of context and be misconstrued by the authorities who are showing increasing signs of paranoia.
Mr Abdul’s use of the word “burn” is a figure of speech and should not be taken literally just as Mr Lee Kuan Yew’s violent imagery of meeting his opponents in a cul-de-sac and drawing a hatchet is not taken literally by the police.
Mr Lee’s actual quote: “Everybody knows that in my bag I have a hatchet, and a very sharp one. You take me on, I take my hatchet, we meet in the cul-de-sac.”
Mr Abdul is being investigated for “inciting violence and public disorder” under Section 267 Chapter 244 of the penal code. His laptop was also seized as part of the investigation. He is also being investigated for his involvement in the ‘I Hate YOG Organising Committee‘ group in Facebook.
The Young Democrats stand by Mr Abdul Malik. It is perfectly within his rights to set up the Facebook group and to be associated in any way to any political group he wishes.
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Please take this seriously. The government knows that Singaporeans are so dumb that someone will take it literally. It’s the people’s stupidity that has enabled them to stay in power for so long. Now they are worried about the same stupidity.
People literally believed that their mothers, wife & sisters will become maids. That a man who earned $15,000 to $20,000 a month as a lecturer will try to cheat on taxi fare for $6-7 dollars. (Based on their logic, they should have paid him $50,000 a month and he would not be corrupt). We literally believe that all mistakes by the government is a honest mistake (Is there such as a thing as dishonest mistake – that’s for opposition filling in forms. And the biggest prove of out stupidity is that we believe it when told that we are daft and stupid.
@dead poet?
A lecturer can make $15k-$20k a month??????
Wow. I’m not even sure the dean makes that much money. You have a super inflated image of our tertiary institutions’ compensation packages.
Can’t blame police for charging him, not after PAP MP kanna set alight.
Another “flame on” and police got to assign police protection to all MIW MPs and ministers.
@ DML 27 August 2010
mind your words
There are two main issues to Malik case that the police has misunderstood:
1. malik spelled vivien. who is vivien?
2. malik wrote: burn xxxx and pap. Can we burn pap?
i know my english is shaky because i am a non-english speaking local and i don’t speak newspeak. but i am trying very hard to understand why malik was arrested for what he had written and i can’t get my head round.
if Mr Malik Mohammad Ghazali can be hauled up by police for inciting violence, then the caterer can be hauled up by police for manslaughter for food poisoning?
so what’s MOH’s outcome of the probe? is it not a serious health issue?
let’s hear it from the horse’s mouth (or will there is some horsing around?).
=D
The difference between the caterer and Mr Malik is the “intention”.
Anyone, burning is a serious issue. Had Mr Malik talked about questioning them aloud, then perhaps no police would have been involved. We already have MPs being scalded by acid. The police are merely trying to do their job. Anyway, most likely Mr Malik would be let off with just a warning.
Burn – at most I would have thought Malik is crazy definitely not violent.
I would have thought the sharp hatchet lagi jialat lagi serious lagi violent. One chop, you are gone just like that. So violent yet no police action and no lim kopi.
I just wonder how the presiding judge is going to find Malik guilty of inciting violence ?
It seems our PAP govt is creating a lot of controversies for our judiciaty.
Actually I was hoping for LKY to live up to his bragging i.e issue a public challenge to Malik and anyone else to meet him in the cul-de-sac and take him on. Just remember LKY said it before, in his bag he has this sharp hatchet and of course knuckle dusters.
Does anyone recall any blood thirsty gangster whether in Singapore,JB or Batam having the audacity to make a similar statement like LKY ?
Rimur
How did you know the caterer did not posion intentionally? and Malik did intend to burn..?
So burning is a serious issue but food poisoning is not. Not too long ago, there were people who died from food poisioning. You call this not serious?
The authorities say CANE graffiti doers, and HANG drug traffickers. Are these not inciting violence? You will say ya but these people deserve the violent treatment. Well, who should judge that VB or PAP deserve to be burnt or not for their atrocities? The PAP themselves?
If drug lords rule us, they will arrest anyone writing “Hang drug traffickers” for inciting violence won’t they? Then what would you say, Rimur?
Rimur, would you still say the police are just doing their job?
PAP = PETTY And PARANOID
PAP = PATHETIC And PATHETIC
> If a disgusted netizen were to post “F*** THE PAP”, is he guilty of inciting SEXUAL VIOLENCE (eg SODOMY, as widely featured in Malaysian politics)???
> When the Dear LEEder Chairman LEE (popular phrase used in communist countries like North Korea) mentioned about meeting his opponents in a cul-de-sac with hatchet and knuckle-duster, is he also guilty of “inciting gangster-like violence and public disorder”???
Rimur, 27 August 2010
on intention, people, in the heat of the moment will often say, type, post, something that they do not really mean.
hypothetical example:
the food i order at from a stall i never tried tasted like sh*t.
the truth is, i have never eaten sh*t before, & under normal circumstances people would not take my words literally. i would be hard pressed to think of a situation where it otherwise would. lol…
back to Malik’s case, if police were that serious to take his words literally, & subsequently charge him for so-&-so offence. i am afraid that the next thing you know, people will be all out to gather any form of evidence to incriminate others who fire off like a loose canon, & expect the heavy hand of the law to deal with them. cases in situations where an employee who often faces an unreasonable, verbally abusive (& likely over-demanding) employer/superior would see an upward trend.
as for inciting violence, maybe last year’s comment by Pastor Derek Hong during AWARE’s Saga would have been more accurate. the words, the context, the position Pastor Hong was in at that time.
Rimur 27 August 2010
The difference between the caterer and Mr Malik is the “intention”.
………….
and when malik asked you to be the arsonist…you would had accept the undertakins?
yes or no? no BUTTS please…..
This arrest is another pointless and pathetic attempt by the Singapore police (who may or may not be complicit with the government) in stifling the free expression of views by its citizens. Such is the sad state of affairs in Singapore.
Sheesh, is the gov really so insecure to arrest people badmouthing ‘em? Don’t they have more important things to do like coming up with ways to take good care of its people? This is stupid, but these people who are arrested or questioned are really put through unneeded suffering. The pap is really arresting more & more people these days for dissent. Where’s our freedom of speech & expression? I don’t even feel like a free human-being who’s able to speak freely without fear of gettin’ arrested by the gov. ‘cos of that, many people here give up thinking for themselves & end up being sheep clones without the ability to think for themselves.
Do you remember the big joke of a case some years back involving a family being prevented from boarding a plane to Australia or UK/US when the mother was simply explaining why the security was screening their bags for possible explosives like bombs to her toddler child. Because she used the word “bomb”, the whole family were all detained. DUH!!!??? The mother kept protesting to the police that she was merely educating her enquiring child and they OBVIOUSLY were not terrorists. But the police refused to listen and they missed their flight. The case was settled privately when it was reported in the media where it caused an uproar. Many condemned the brain dead actions of the police. The family also threatened legal action.
So there you have it. In Sinkabore, there is NO such thing as accident, error or stupidity. ALL actions are DELIBERATE. The authorities know it and they dun freaking care.
iamaKEROSINseller
i am gonna give you another simple example regardin singapoor polis in short pants law…
imagined this scenerio..
a girl fell into the singapore river whether she is drunk or attempt suicide(yes it does happenned)
you bein a simple layman or a normal humane being( noped you are not tryin to be angpengsiong @ all) divied in..grabbed her dragged her and maybe give her the kiss of life..sometime even worst…hit her body so hard just to drain the water from her body(this 1 i saw on the tv series..beachbums/lifeguards)
next moment the socalled feller/sucidial was angry..simply because you prevent her death..
start complaint and report to our polis in short pants that you molested her
not onced not twice butt THREE times..
grabbin her/kissin her/and pressin her naynay…
and the polis in short pants will actuaLLEE chargin YOU for the said offences…
what are you gonna do? engaged a leo fernando attorney @large defence lawyer inc?
Headache lah,our English if no good very dangerous nowadays liao because sometimes we use some words to mean something not the same as PAP dictionary lor! We usually use Oxford (but they use “Oxley” dictionary to interpret, like that how?)
Example:If we are angry with a MP,then we say something like “Fire him now!Screw him then he know we are not happy”
Will the police think “Fire him” mean “put fire on him”? (as in MP Seng case) and “Screw him” mean “Rape him”?
If like that die lah,sure kena charged for “life threatening violence” and “Attempt rape”(or sodomy?)what?
Can the police or PAP help us by explaining which “words” are allowed in Sinkapoor leh otherwise next time our children dare not do Composition in school lor!
I am very surprised at what is happening.
This is a case of the Language of the Social being brought out of context and being used as language of the political and to relate to another context for a specific purpose.
Can something of a Matter of Interpretation stand ?
Is this appropriate and reasonable?
So often we utter (whether in posted words or verbal) ” f**k” someone, does it mean we really catch the person and ‘f**k’ that person?
We can say Malik’s language is uncouth, or rude,but note being uncouth or rude is not a crime.
Or is it his arrest just an excuse for his setting up a voice group for expressing disagreement for YOG? And if so, can someone not disagree in parallel to some parties who agree?
this is blatant misuse of powers by the police and the pappies.
Plain and simple.
Had the pap been more sensitive,more humane,put more heart into addressing the hardship of the common citizenry,there wouldn’t be a burning incident with a useless minister nor will there be a minister who went crying when someone told him to be careful.
And now when someone calls for burning and rallying to vote out the useless pap,they come stepping in with police and what nots???
This burning and rallying is taken out of context and misinterpreted(as some law minishit would like to use).
So,the useless ministries and its equally useless (if not,more useless)ministers can use such a childish and unsophisticated excuse to explain away their incompetency,surely the same can be use by this malik,since he is no multi-million ministers doing nothing to justify his multi-million dollar salaries,rendering this excuse even more effective than say….some law minishit?
That’s about the size of what the govt is doing through the police:
witch hunt –noun
an intensive effort to discover and expose disloyalty, subversion, dishonesty, or the like, usually based on slight, doubtful, or irrelevant evidence.
Origin:
1925–30
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Strange as it may seem, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and formal education positively fortifies it.
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-Stephen Vizinczey (b. 1933), Hungarian novelist, critic. repr. In Truth and Lies in Literature (1986). “Europe’s Inner Demons,” (London, March 2, 1975).
From Dictionary.com
okie lah, next time see anything amiss, not quite right, plain wrong. just mind your own business.
got people fighting?
let the police handle.
got people spew religious/racial nonsense?
pretend never see.
suspect people becoming social deviantes (potential terrorists)?
just move on.
got anything major happen dun blame the masses of not being civic conscience or responsible loh. cos sometimes, like fire hazzards, got no fire yet so the threat is not there yet. then cannot say people over-react loh, then only when big fire occur then turn around & say how come got fire hazzard never report earlier.
chicken & egg arh…
The government must learn how to handle the citizen’s feelings without resorting to the Law and Police intervention every time.
This curbs our expression and will only further make the people hate the government even more. The PAP no longer pretends to listen and continues to bulldoze their way without consideration.
Its unfortunate that a MP was burnt but that does not mean that others will follow that example. This shows that the Police no longer thinks that people are rational and they will resort to extreme methods when their dictatorship is challenged.
Vivian will never be considered a high value target, this is a most ludicrous thought. It is disgusting to even mention him online.
LKY talks tough because he is a bully. Without the official power that he weilds by virtue of his control of government, he is nothing more than a big bully. Without the backing of the government, he is nothing but a pitiful old man. Abdul Malik was only putting out a rally call. One that we all should heed.
Hi.
S267 of the Penal Code ( Cap 224) covers Making or selling false weights or measures. Are you sure he is being investigated under this section?
Malik should get legal representation to make sure that the charges do not stick.
It is an unfortunate use of inappropriate choice of strong words due to the heat of the moment thinking and spur of the moment posting.
It should not be viewed as a pre-planned choice of malicious words to excite or incite others to violence.
He must not be made out to be a criminal due to his past offense, or because he does not wish to vote for the PAP, or his race may predispose him to religious images of a radical, or he is deemed to be dangerous because he called for people to vote for the opposition.
The police must show that he planned to incite violence or else his remarks should not be taken as literal proof of incitement to violence.
Ayoyo….the word Hate and burn is a strong word lah….esp if you are a public fig and if you see this appear on your fb, saying that, I think generally people would react and report to the Police mah. Worst aah…still got a comment written “I hate YOG organising committee” Facebook page. People be rational in your thinking. Don’t just follow and comment for the sake of commenting….
Esp in Law, if there is a present of Actus Reas (Action) or Mens Reas (intention), there is believed to be that you mean it and would do it. Action can be in form of written words/verbal.
Sad to read so many adverse comments on LKY. An old man not respected and like by many. How pitiful. How much money he has will not bring him good reputation, honour, fame nor glory. Maybe he should not be accorded state burial after all should he dies. Only Hell will welcome him. His hatchet destroys many, young and old alike. People like Lim Chin Siong, Francis Seow etc…..the list is endless. How is he going to answer to the King of Hades. He is so proud that he is the only dictator who dictates with his hands down! A criminal who is proud of his crime!
everything post online got legal implication, but how well versed in the legal mumbo-jumbo must 1 be before posting anything online or saying things offline?
mum promise child go holiday to any country of his choice for 21 days if he gets straight As. but later backtracks say 12 days can or not?..
wife promise husband 2 kids, 2 years after marriage. but then recession hit hard 1+ year after marriage, so still 1 kid after 3 years…
so you all dun anyhow make empty promises ok?! wait the law, say you breach “contract” ah…
XD
This is excellent news. You smell the fear emanating from those complacent sods. They are afraid folks, it’s another step for us and for freedom.
What I find most interesting is how the paper would report that the subject posted “Rally together” but conveniently left out “vote them out”.
so many comments on this thread after so long?
If someone said ” oh, my wallet got burned in the stock market”, or “oh, that meal burned a hole in my wallet” or “If someone is not careful, he/she may be burned by own misdeeds later”
Does any of these mean physically burned ?
The more the authorities narrowly defined many OB issues, the more radical some careless souls may write in the bloggers, with this, Singapore will never ever be in a “developed state”, maybe the GDP numbers are impressive, but it is doubtful of the maturity of both bloggers and authorities
Social networking websites like Friendster, FaceBook and Twitter have changed the information environment. Citizen Journalists, like Abdul Malik, can now reach out and influence as many individuals as professional run news organisations. Herein lies the danger. As unlike professional journalists who abide by a code of ethics, citizen journalists are unregulated and may be motivated by personal agendas. In addition, the homogeneity of these social communities, and sense of bond among “friends” with common interests, makes these communities susceptible to being easily manipulated.
The Greek Riot in 2008 is a case in point where the death of a student, at the hands of the police, need not have degenerated into nation-wide violent protests. The incident could have remained contained pending investigations by the authorities. Unfortunately, irresponsible citizens began spreading unsubstantiated accusations of police brutality on social networking sites. This fanned anti-police sentiments which eventually spiralled out of control. Analysts are unanimous in their belief that social networking websites were the catalysts in the Greek riots of 2008.
Hence, while I believe that netizens have the right to express their views, the expression of these views must be done responsibly. The inciting of violence is definitely not one freedom I support.
In my opinion, the Police is right to investigate this case and if a crime has been committed, the appropriate actions taken.
http://www.cwfong.blogspot.com
Why use laws against free speech? Free speech includes the right of dissent. See ICCPR etc and treaty bodies’ general comments etc. Singapore has agreed to abide by all UN conventions on human rights whether the PAP govt has signed it or not by agreeing to a UPR under the Human Rights Council. I suggest SDP challenge the minister in charge to a PUBLIC DEBATE on whether this is incitement. And no winners on guessing who will have cold feet. Boo PAP!
LKY only knows how to bully its own citizen. Is this what he is good at??? Its a real let down & shame The human rights Organisation is watching you. . Parasite Acting Party
is there a conspiracy after the negative online uproar over the “dog food” incident? then the caterer not happy about reduced profit margin cos need to serve better quality food?
so some volunteers are served food that make their tummy upset? possible? somemore, now YOG over already but no news about that incident (double standard?), unlike that Indian Rojak stall owner- so much report in the media.
There is no freedom of speech in sinkapor.
On the food poisoning incident, when they make mistake,they sweep under the carpet, and they dont apologise.
Media? when there is no freedom of speech, whats the use of a media?
fact, 29 August 2010
you can’t be more right on that food poisoning incident.
Q: what’s the use of a media?
A: a good source of avenue for revenue? shape the thoughts & minds of the masses?
On or around 18 Aug 2010 18:02, Malik Mohammad Ghazali (Malik Syasha Sotongz):”IT’S FINALLY OFFICIAL!!! THE MASSIVE FLOODS, MAS SELAMAT’S ESCAPE, WASTE OF $387 MILLION AND YOU CAN’T EVEN ENSURE PROPER STANDARDS FOR THE FOOD SERVED TO OUR VOLUNTEERS??? THIS IS THE TIME FOR US TO BURN VIVIEN BALAKRISHNAN AND THE PAP!!!!! RALLY TOGETHER AND VOTE THEM OUT!!!”
Although there is a typo in “VIVIEN”, it is within no reasonable doubts that Malik is referring to Dr Vivian Balakrishnan, the Minister for Community Development, Youth and Sports. The smoking gun in this issue is the use of the word “BURN”. Around early 2009, Member of Parliament for Yio Chu Kang, Mr Seng Han Thong suffered burns after being set on fire at a community event. In light of this incident, Mr Malik’s use of the word “BURN” can CONSTITUTE A REAL, CLEAR AND PRESENT THREAT to the recipient(s), even in a developed democracy. In addition, Malik had used “US” instead of “ME”, thus tantamount to inciting violence with others when used in collaboration with “BURN”. As such, Mr Malik should stop and discontinue doing so.
This issue also puts the freedom of speech to the test in Singapore. Freedom of speech is not absolute and comes with responsibilities, especially if it is written publicly, which may be subjected to public scrutiny and/or law. On the other hand, Mr Malik should also be given the right to reply so that he can defend himself. Perhaps we can graciously grant Mr Malik the benefit of the doubt that he is indeed using the word “BURN” merely as a metaphor, without any intention to incite violence or whatsoever. Singapore is a young nation and a budding democracy; Singaporeans are still exploring the boundaries as well as potentials. The response to this issue should be measured so that it does not have an excessive chilling effect on freedom of speech.
@CW Fong, 29 August 2010
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Funny, only just got update of your post after 6 days! Anyway, it is nice to have someone present a seemingly balanced ‘other’ side of the issue.
.
My concern is that the converse of what you painted in also true. If the state media is regulated and control by ONLY one body, and interpretation of conformance/laws/news is monopolistic, then how can the citizens be assured that what is presented is not propaganda or misinformation? If the state police arrest people based on what is deemed as anti-establishment, then what differentiate that from the Gestapo? Are we to assume that our media editors and reporters are truly neutral? Can we say that the “regulated” media doesn’t report biased, or paint a different picture from what is happening on the ground? If yes, then who controls the ‘Regulator’?
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An example is the recent YOG. Not that I wish to keep beating an old horse to death, but to quote when things are still fresh in everyone mind. Did our regulated media stated things like “overwhelming response”, “tickets selling fast”, “bulk of tickets already sold”, etc…? Wasn’t these later revealed to be unsubstantiated?
.
In Malik case, I believe the police would close an eye if there was no complaint. Issue is who complained, such that the police must wayang a bit? Remember that the garhem has always maintained that the only blog that they recognised is REACH. Why would the police arrest someone over something posted in an blog that the garhem dont believe represent the true feedback of the public?
.
Just wondering out loud…..